MEETING WITH IAC REPRESENTATIVES OF PROJECT BLUEBIRD

• Document Type: SPECIALCOLLECTION
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 00149470
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 5
• Document Creation Date: January 17, 2025
• Document Release Date: January 15, 1983
• Publication Date: July 25, 1951

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)��f.Ph�ezzaceuticals: ,������� -�
oseurch effort started id 19147 a A
4:141 irero -advised of thit: of.fort i.idch prccueced
teLions in furxis,eto. �� The next significant.;..;���,1;,r;',�:4-
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����, � to detormine his depart�moiltts- into:recta arx1 prv,�;-..mt eY_Istant. �� � � � � .� �
v... � h final stop :irt this prcxess was 'the itlawaranattra to each deeignoo asking
�i�-�����-�: � �� for the, spocific objectivos of his depurLment tutci for informatim on
, . �����
i��� � established or. planned pr og�ane " The data of 20 July..Sor cubslist..-,ion�of .� � � �
� -,.-.1-;�:"...����,-..this information war.; ea.t.-.Llieltod�becouser�of a zt:eting of consultants. to ��,��� �
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.1. 5 Ju,7 1951
;.-t:N.!...1.-4;�.'.;,�"'�.!.;!....-4'''-'2::StinJ'X'rr heettre with. DC iteproseata-tives of Project- Elu.cb-Ird
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'4, :".�x4�").4 i ; � ' �-� ��1 evioweci the dovelcrpracnt of the Projact within. CIA.
4:14..�:"�� '-''. ������*�;-- Thi r s ro - ums.
...f,..li�!�;�,�:����%�-�-�.' P C-am .kon because it baczr.-ae evident that acme mo3sures.
�����.=,!��.1-.,������� � .',... trust be tai:oa to provide protection for our personnol af:OinOt 5 � iOt � .
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����F7-'�,� intorrocatiort.techniquoi. Itecommenciation iere =do � there�
fore,. that, a. higt prior'' ro - establislied��on Elia subject. � The
v arid-approed by thO DGI.. � a an �
;:�.�����executi4Te session' at the IX on 2 April 19511 tho�.progrom usu. e�xplaincd
;7z;�'..,7.�7 the heeds. of the. *other intol 1 &fence.' agencies und they wore requested
P to namins.te� dosignse& to -,:ork the.Assistant Dixector for .Sciontific �-�
.7,����-
-Intelligence' on the mattor... Ea& ona of :the designees has boon approached'', , , � ��
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X.it..; � _ . '. , \- ; . .: ,
.4 4 ;,..sg I..% . .� � . :. ...; tha projoat. scheduled for 23 July 1951,..r.! ...� � � � � .-� .-� ,
int.:::�-�-.1;..?..:i',..,���;���: .: ; � � - � �
',..?....4.,...'"..,.%;�.� ir ''. � - ';': ..! .: � 4. : . - '
, tii % ... .: .:. �:1..c*: ! : .. ��� 2 igilittfijiavt. . utl isild ' iii.dc tail.
. of the c.).-er-all cbj:otive- s. I 71. 'I..... :-". .-.....:.. ':1''�:...1����:���
. 4.`i � �-rn. :. ;
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�DorensiVri aspects - An c:s.amplo of
1. this regard. is a briefing �whic
lc. .
...f 7..0: �
oca�am z�Inci his aor--opt
�
action taken .by the
gives to CIA
: � r personnel J.,itich�oonsists Primarily :of incloctrination or. cor4ionin.,
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b Offonsivo aspects.... Mono broalc 'down into:
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� � (1) The-uca of drugs, � �
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(2) interrogation tochniqu, � os .
� ' (a). �-i-lecilanic ad31:.�-
A.he ourr
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'V. -,11'.� � dovelopacurtEr occurrod at. about the stale tifro when in 1950 abou.t a year
:4 � � 1'. � . fiCCt ��� : �
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a,. CIL r;pproachlIMMOSSW'Scr or tin
connection with_ Projact Bluebird (in. thin connecti
auggost4ed that the ccrley nsect for the CIA Proje.ot bc c clnce
1,1-.0.uobirdfl' el-erreti to a specific operation which is new completed.) �
project coneisted pri0ar117 of tho ucc of narco-
Kipnosis plus moohanica1 aids such. as the lie -detector. 'Tho CIA 0- -
r�-;Projoct did:sat i rae of the drags offered. by thAgarand tho .13 3.
opportunity for test.1na. theca. in that project was thoi-eforO
. ,
�
t about tho same time th -
e- analyzed t.
rejects concermd with inint; irrtallig.c.,nco from �
armtig6tion5 cnd decided that there were limitationa on caoabili
�
14.
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tics within thenNIMPRWRIMMONrd-
duct teats naivIduarsi -etc:- The
lei& t1 was associate tr
t, 't110 d. and
� . of�
wor.s.n.g � "me
uho -ith
of three years.
iillul -to
le.diffinulty of
tho matt/a:71v
in the Office .
b cause
prob1=3.. A projec VC:;
d Pal :300 1000 0110 C�ated
...date has c rio 1'0 P.,0 ' ' h th r
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ursodD,j- ti- .�...,.:-.."�_,.,...�:,, -",.......u, r....,-.-..1s.xes-w4=-1.,...,"" --r.o......---�,s .
ware h-icrod o '4 is project. l � ; -1-
. 4
141.th ca'ard� � but not th ,..-:.:--Y-1'-,.f,�12.,:,-�A71,- .:.-Fz
,
-auction was -' no. interest - rnthinz, to contributh ...
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s projoot is in �sconce a ;march
ons deception-othor thaa the mechtnical. '
21 omats.on. en such. projects mado available to CIA.
1.cbor that he w..)u1d to forced to givo a ��,:.
: negative ropor on activitics in his dopartment'until further information
�
cedid to ob-tainad. � � . � �
�
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60 ha Ft an intanco intorost in dovc3.oping now techniques for
resistalco� to interrtica- tran (Vasa doronnivo acpects).
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F.* `.� but.-ie-not briofed and ha.2 respen:tibilit, for thief project. aa
a � � ��
such. go lz� hand:Lilac; overythir unclor iiz persenak direction_ with all
- ilatecL. as to Ism-slod&o,,, oto.
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bello-its that this projsct is in the psychiat
seified and was devolopod and. 1.7 controlled by ti
!.t
:rglained the mission_ of the medical. unit in� 051.
It is re., nalbla for centanuect surveillance of foreiGn oCforte thia
prcpe.ration 1i.tho
-'%i...attitude to be. edop
-!�`: Mere is it seriis
....approved Tilli bo ut
the. athjoct of manuals now in
tc.)- carve as guidc.nao a,5 to the
riemboraof tho� firmed Services when capthrod.
specs (clastlificztdon TOP ramr:r.) which he
thmugh the. Bei to the rational Secrrity
�Courtail. When fin:7117 appro ved these' will result in ur.elassified. directiVoa
� . and manual= for the r,uidence of all serv-leo persorr3el. � The prinary purposo
advise COrriCC perss&..el ont ; �
11:111,7-; !, �
flor to avoid disciosing inioraation then cAptured.
� .� �
���� b. now to avoill bea.tings or other Soviot tochnic,12es because they :
are oanpoctc.'d of bovizig such infOrr,eation. Mir; pc.rt of
' -LI= defensive or resistance aspect.,-�.� � �-� � '
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intornariior
of.facess�� '�
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jeGrecd to ad-,
roEcly for transmittal to the XI.
-hen tjagtx..Ters.
then described tho pinorzza within CD. Moro is an
ng L7-or_T Cm-copal of represent4tives from the interested
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...;4:.,....Thiszo lalividuas meat uir1 to insure continuing procross and 1:11.1
r--74�\'",, �:.'..c.;;oOordination pith respect to ooh e.spect of the projodt in trlairth ono. or
'A:i',7;, '4,17.4 ,..- ..,�more ccc-4Donenta of CIA have r.n izrterer,t, 'Tho inforwotion' on tbo e"-_isteneo
-0'4 ,,, rot '�������� t'' of.. the. project ia linited to a .fc:.; individuals in moh of the intsrostod. . --J�,.... s.�,.., � .
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14- -I� . .�.,.... �
offices land thia list is on record hero.,
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� . t4ve succestions�as. to specific approachos to t-he various roscnrch aspects�
tits projoct.� In this cor.nectiony thera will be experimontal procrams
-z'vhich. can bo carried out in this country. � Moro will also be proato
�
"whiah cannot be dono here ard. 1=7. 'tzke the. form of the original project
� , resulta of the la.ttor type. of.. 8Z:PeriClant Ilia probably bo
fr" %. �� � ��� reported iti'two'waYst - � :-� -� �
� � 4.:i;?!, .1141.. � r " � . �
'4? t,;;:../�; � � � ?..!. A.:- Substantive reports on the 'dotr.iled infonaation obtiinid from'
' :-.raguLar establinhod intetligen.se chsumels.� �-�
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(2,1014".44 '1711 � � .� .��� ;
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g �
,A.(111.P4'� � ,
� � potant .soiontista as fo.Llowst � �
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...�.14mi., ..'� .�
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�,. ... 1: ....*!..Thi.a is a uoup which will ho 'briefed on 23 July at which
.r.dcation, haS an_ outolde working group oorr:pozod of con- .
S.
time it iv ho
';% � "�; to convince them. that .tho projeot is-thy 'of -their- attention end es
4r� � =eh of their tima. as thoy can:spare' .freza their other responsibilitiea.
437-ceit. It-ia hoped that- wa:can stimulate the ..r thinking and obtain acme construe-;--..: � 7.�
. �
t& . � '� � � �
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:�'..tfr'-`,'.2.----'.: � ��� ��..�
. - � echnical observors on the reactions of the subject Irith rozpect to f; - :�-�-��\
. .,
.-t-SrA.'f�ir.�:�.:,.."."..%-....�-�'�:4: :-the'techniquos used and -rrculd come.brxolt for review by tho best cciontifie�':-�-
:,.ty..e. ��:,�''' -,.�...� �;:..� amest new approachoo and- .�.:".:��� � .-...'"i'l`.;�� -�-�':-. -�i� - � - � - : ��
�:.1.:�� 4.4 - ' '.. � ' � ' � '' �'���� competence available. ' This would--
rf.=-4-',S.fr'... ::����'-�*;�.'" :: generato Author c-�verimentation.
irxlividual. These are not our � cencern and will be it:zuod. through
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,_
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:.:�;.� � � Technical reports -*Thenci are reports which would be made by'. �
oted the difficulty -.- .. �����:'*--;�;:,,
1.i:�41.1t;'-:�r�-...4-';���'����-�-i..."2:'---,-. which arose in connectiOn�with orig.,Ir roject Lluebirt.1 and asked---7,�. .� .-....1.:,
,Lv�-,,�::::;.-�-�,*: 2.. . �...:� � � .. �
-�;.!,-..e.7.'. - � .. ...Z. �� that . adequate notice of new CIA" operations for rer,earch pu.--poscs in � --.,....,
. .,_,..;.f....-..,.:...,.:y � . � .. .,..,..
, ,..
,.., .,1-.41f,':�-� ..:::V.thii-field be given .tb�.tNi7:7-777-7:- ).repreventativeo. '..; , � � ...., .� '-'.:'...".:,
, �����*t.1
.:47��;.2'-,
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���..r.,--�". - ��-:"....;'.10.**-. The;aubject of coLl.z.tion, al' information It ich is known to bo -., 1. i
p,..-,....: � .; ,..,,.......�,
---t.42:.-,
4 ij=�����:����,-, available , in. eat qua.ntitios. on. tho.tecluliquos used on incliv.' Ita).3 who- �...::-::�.:
�;...�.
...4. '', � � �... : �.��,-::�9��
4.7.1. I :-� �.�:,..� .:.� - ; !. hava- been-in the hands of the Soviets was.cortsiderod: ,..�,---df.:�,-,, -4,X.e,t-'irosit.�
. - . -;--;.- .--:.����,a.....,:7
Ne'i41....r ' ', ':.' � notod.. �'� � ...���0:.;-t
-1
4-4-..�;.,�-: ���,4�.. 7 that t4ii:bro2ks:down into two..r.ai.n catogorios i 7 , �.: - - . * .
AA.: 7glj.4-.1...,�.;:`,!, ...!:�:�: * ! � -..,:, � � ....; - i :. ... ; : � . .i .i. !.:., . , ��� ....... . -�-� ., ,. ;.:.. .... : .. �� . - .
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4,� �;.4.4:.-..1 �.; .;,.....', i. ... .. : - � � � � ; * --* '71Ft: t
�j. -'-�'.." :;� � t � � '''' :4- � � � a. -: Information on interrogation of copturcxl-person 1
for tho �� ;,.�'�---.1.;'...1:.;..;::..::.Itit
'1.1"1� �:i '�� '� S� -
�V �1 ..1,�������!. � �:. k - .4;
"Q.;�:Y%..-7:1 .6 .. purnoRe- of obtaining intelligcnce. Thor� is pra oticall,y no infor-'7.::::'.���� -
N..�;-;:17.'id,.. ��� '.- � ' . ' ration avall.able on�the.techniquos;used in this connection.- ��� '''' � - � 01/.....�i
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t,...).,:..i.,.,..;����... :�-_.:. . �-/;,:i.1
�,,!�.-*.i..s..,\.�'.!' ..1.1'.-- :� � 2 -- ' s.' '', -*: - �-�-7--:' . '''.'.':*-7- ..----- �-.' *.: � '' ' -�'..� - .. ...- ' :. � ..� ... � ...
-P� ' ;4111 ':�:,.:'' -.. N � �' ..: : . - . %:'11:.T.
4;(!) stiliTj �.......1...'..� ........ '. ' b*. � . Information on'intorrogations to obtain confoocions.� " Thom .is
,; f ...:�;,.., knc-.m to be mountains of information on thiS tr,b1 ot of lit ich has ��!';
fe..
Is...,-,L-,*:��'--:�.;..:'�beeri collated by interestod..officials, in th.c.....,:::-.;','==:-tra---e-4-,
. __ �,-,4....}...........i....:�....,3�..,.. �,,:i ;
.����,�� �
V.v;?_,�,..w.:- -7, ' although. no Burrinary has boon prepared' oral it
�')4�54;40.: 1. 1 -,... .
not leliercd that _au.
. � :...,edie
.�..s;�71(
1-10.:.,-,v;;,11',',,,:�;.:1 '...;-*". . a evantiry is necesoar,� �...:.., ��.. ,� - ..� ..., � .. �
.. , ..... .:��;'���;Nt 1
t�,1,1,..;-. itr�74..../�,...-, k � . ... � , .. i . . , . .. . : . . � ... 1���Fit����
3: ej.,:i.V.J....V.,,� .�,.� ..!.. �.� . � .2 . : .. . . '� �)�:�.1.....����r!S
T F � . � .
.,..___D �_, -It ua s agreed that it. would be constructi-vo to brim?, togathsr.. the ....,�,.,..,�AN'I'
�A i-:���-.1 .. _ ylesignoes "an! . tho.. C IA '. consultant ranol� at an earl' date. It x culi :�.......',47;47-;
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in connection with this. subject. 'In both� cc ZOO',
%;`�7C participektiotrin.this matter eithor in Ca or 1.11
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in this connection were. provided
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