AL-QADHDHAFI INTERVIEWED ON REGIONAL SITUATION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400420005-4
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 12, 2012
• Sequence Number: 5
• Publication Date: January 26, 1987
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/03/12: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400420005-4
Thursday
29 January 1987
Vol V No 019
Annex No 008
Daily Report
MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA
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Vol V 29 Jan 87 MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA
ANNEX
U.S. Reportedly Helping Mobutu Build Military IJEUNE AFRIQUE 21 Jan] ...................................................................... 3
NIGERIA
NAN: 1,500 Libyan Refugees To Be Repatriated
ZAIRE
LIBYA
Al-Qadhdhafi Interviewed on Regional Situation /Madrid CAMBIO 26 Jan] ........................................................................ 1
Al-Qadhdhafl Interviewed on Regional Situation
PM271619 Madrid CAMBIO 16 in Spanish
26 Jan 87 pp 56-59 - FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
[Interview with Colonel Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi by Randa
Taqiy al-Din; date, place not given]
[Text] Question: Following the breaking of the Oujda
agreement - which united Libya and Morocco in 1984 and was
denounced by King Hassan in 1986 - do you plan to support the
Polisario actively again?
Answer: Our stance is clear: We do not want for the Poli-
sario an independent state for only a few thousand inhabitants.
In fact we support the Polisario as a revolutionary movement in
the Arab Maghreb, irrespective of the relations we have with
Morocco. What matters to me is to see a force emerge in the
region capable of destroying artificial monarchical feudalism
and U.S. power.
Concerning this, I believe it will be necessary for the Polisario
and the nationalist party of the Canary Islands to set up a united
political party. Incidentally, I will point out that this is the first
time I have made such a proposal. In fact Western Sahara and
the Canary Islands are part of the same geographical area. They
should join forces to defeat Spanish imperialism and merge in a
single true state.
Question: Does Algeria support this suggestion?
Answer: It will have to.
Question: Would this new state be linked to Morocco?
Answer: No, it would be an independent state. After all, the
inhabitants of the Canary Islands are immigrants from the
Sahara, and it must not be forgotten that Spain has no right to
those islands.
Question: It is said that when you signed the Oujda union with
King Hassan you promised him you would discontinue all assis-
tance to the Polisario.
Answer: No, I never renounced the idea of organizing a
referendum of the Saharan people. I even asserted with respect
to the Arab-African Union that people's right to self-
determination. As far as the Oujda treaty is concerned, I
expressed some doubts about its duration. How could a reaction-
ary and feudal sovereign create a lasting union with Libya? The
contradictions between our two political systems are too great.
Moreover, I told King Hassan: "The United States and Israel
will not allow you to act in this way with me." He replied that he
was the sole master of his decisions. Now it is clear that was not
true. They ordered him to put an end to that union, and he broke.
his commitments to Libya.
Question: Was King Hassan right to receive Shim'on Peres in
Morocco?
Answer: In receiving Shim'on Peres the king wished to please
the Americans and the Israelis. This visit proves that my analysis
is correct: Hassan implements the policy that Washington
dictates to him. I view this event as a defeat and a betrayal which
will lead to his ruin.
Question: When the United States bombed your country in
1986, it justified its action by accusing you of actively supporting
terrorism in the world. What can you say in reply?
Answer: Washington is conducting a disinformation campaign
to deceive the U.S. people and world public opinion. In fact the
U.S. attack's aim was to strike the Arab nation as a whole to
force it to abandon the struggle for the liberation of Palestine. It
was a matter, essentially, of achieving the physical elimination
of the man who is leading this struggle. The United States
believes that by ridding itself of me it will end the Arab rev-
olution. It is profoundly mistaken, and its intervention has pro-
duced an effect contrary to what it was hoping for: It has only
increased the Middle East's anger; the Arab revolutionary move-
ments are determined to show themselves even more intransigent.
Question: You have not answered my question. Are there
terrorist training camps in Libya? To prove your good faith,
would you accept an international investigating committee in
your country?
Answer: If there must be an investigation, it should be conduc-
ted first in the United States, Britain, and in the other Western
countries. It is there, we are sure, where the terrorist training
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a
MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA
ANNEX
camps operating against Libya, Syria, Algeria, and all the pro-
gressive Arab countries exist. We have proof of their existence;
those who accuse us have none. We have even detained terrorists
who were operating against us. Thus we know exactly that the
Americans and British are organizing subversive operations in
Syria. Hundreds of innocent people have been killed in those
countries because of attacks perpetrated by terrorists trained in
the FRG and in Britain.
Question: Iran and Syria, which are intensely hostile to the
United States, have suffered no direct attack. What, in your
opinion, is the reason for this relative U.S. restraint with respect
to those countries? Why strike Tripoli and not Tehran or Damas-
cus?
Answer: With their attack the Americans have experienced a
severe military defeat and have no desire to repeat this failure.
If they had succeeded in Libya, they would not have hesitated to
attack Syria or Iran. In any event, they have announced that in
the future they will have recourse to other means, especially
attacks. It is a method that has already been used against me.
Does not the former French intelligence chief reveal in a recent
book that they attempted to assassinate me?
Question: What is your opinion of the recent wave of attacks
in Paris, attributed to the 'Abdallah family?
Answer: I have already expressed my astonishment at these
events. I cannot understand the reasons for this surprising vio-
lence in France. Is it linked to domestic or foreign causes? I ask
myself what France has done to deserve this fate. Moreover, it is
not certain that those cited as responsible are the real culprits.
Question: How do you explain the fact that the United States,
which has many enemies, does not not suffer violence similar to
that assailing France?
Answer: It is very simple: The United States protects itself
by using Europe as a shield. This means either that Europe lacks
discernment or that it is defeated and powerless. In the next world
war it will be on the front line of the Soviet-U.S. conflict: It
will receive the first Soviet nuclear missile. In my opinion, a
confrontation between West Europe and the United States is
inevitable, since Washington's obsessive fear of communist mili-
tary power will eventually be taken for what it really is - a big
lie and a betrayal whose aim is to lead the old continent into a
conflict with the USSR.
I am convinced that Western Europe and Eastern Europe could
live in peace and give up their missiles if they ceased to undergo
Washington's pernicious influence.
Question: In October Britain severed its diplomatic relations
with Syria, which was accused of being involved in a terrorist plot
to blow up an El Al airliner in flight. The United States also
recalled its ambassador to Syria, whereas France refused to do
so. How do you interpret these different decisions?
Answer: Britain is totally dependent on the United States,
contrary to the case in France: Paris has proved its indepen-
dence by denying the U.S. bombers that came to attack Libya
the right to pass through its airspace. It is clear that there is an
alliance between the U.S. and British Atlanticists, directed
against the Arab nation, against Islam, against Arab semitism.
It is a racist policy. Can you explain to me what concern the
United States has in bilateral problems between Britain and
Syria? Why has the White House recalled its ambassador in
Damascus, out of solidarity with London? When Syria rees-
tablished relations with the United States, did it link that
agreement to its relations with Britain?
Question: What is your opinion of Soviet policy in the Middle
East?
Answer: It is certainly more rational than Washington's
policy. However, the Soviets' recent change of attitude toward
the United States is not positive. Compared to Gorbachev, who
seems like a dove with his proposals for peace and reconciliation,
Reagan's United States is confirming its image as an eagle by
constantly threatening war and militarist escalations.
Question: Has the USSR sent military experts to Libya?
Answer: Of course we have Soviet experts and arms.
Question: So why did they not react when the United States
attacked Libya?
Answer: What could they have done? In any event, they did
not fail in their duty. We still have confidence in Soviet policy
toward us.
Question; Do you hope for an early reconciliation between Libya
and Tunisia?
Answer: I have never understood the reason for the rift.
Economically our two countries are complementary, the problem
lies in the fact that our political systems are radically different.
We are a genuine Jamahiriyah (state of the masses) and not a
U.S. subsidiary. We should have confined ourselves to economic
cooperation, since the political incompatibilities were foresee-
able. Tunisia has severed all ties with Libya.
Question: If the situation in Tunisia worsens, would you inter-
vene?
Answer: No, we would intervene only if the Tunisian people
asked us.
Question: Every time you have attempted a union within the
Maghreb your efforts have failed. How do you explain this?
Answer: Undoubtedly we did not follow the right path. More-
over, I do not believe all our efforts have been vain. They have
had at least the merit of promoting a spirit of unity in the
Maghreb, which was isolated from the rest of the Arab world.
Question: Is it true that many Palestinians are returning to
Lebanon?
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Answer: Yes. The resistance must reestablish itself there. This
is glaring proof of the failure of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon,
whose aim was to expel these Palestinians.
Question: Should the PLO be regarded as the sole legitimate
representative of the Palestinian people?
Answer: 'Arafat represents only himself. The PLO remains a
militant vanguard, but it needs to act really as a liberation
organization...
Question: How is it possible for you, a champion of Arabism,
to support a non-Arab country - Iran - against an Arab
country - Iraq?
Answer: The important thing in this conflict is that a rev-
olutionary force is confronting a nonrevolutionary force. The
countries supporting Iraq against Iran, such as Jordan, Egypt,
and the Gulf countries, are all reactionary. That said, I very
sincerely want an end to the war.
Question: What solution do you propose to end the Lebanese
crisis?
Answer: Any settlement must be made within the framework
of a republic in which Muslims and Christians live together and
in peace. I am opposed to the slogans about an Islamic republic
or the idea of cantons and small states. Those ideas terrify the
Arab Christians and drive them into allying themselves with the
enemy. Those who preach an Islamic republic are mercenaries
who give Israel the justification for attacking Lebanon.
Question: What role does Libya intend to play in Chad?
Answer: I want peace and unity for Chad, but I will on no
account accept the setting up of a hostile regime. We will not
tolerate those who wish to destabilize us. The French presence in
Chad is imperialist and petty. What France must do is abandon
its military bases throughout the African continent.
NAN: 1,500 Libyan Refugees To Be Repatriated
AB231714 Lagos NAN in English 1126 GMT 23 Jan 87 -FOR
OFFICIAL USE ONLY
[Text] Lagos, Jan. 23`~ AN) - The eral Government has
initiated measures to r atriate abo 1,500 Libyan refugees
stranded at Marce [as r ed] in L os the minister of internal
affairs, Col. John Shagaya, 4nnou#Ced in Lagos yesterday. He
told the News Agency q/ Nige ' AN) that the federal govern-
ment had already held consults ' ns with the Libyan authorities
over the issue, and that it was ing out a contingency plan to
effect the repatriation. He s d t t the Libyans were being
looked after by the Emerg cy Re Agency pending their
repatriation.
The federal attorney-g eral and minister of justice, Mr. Bola
Ajibola, yesterday to newsmen that there were about 55,000
refugees from Chad ibya and other countries now living in the
country. He said that the AFRC [Armed Forces Ruling Council)
had already passed a draft of a proposed decree establishing a
national refugee council which would take care of refugees.
U.S. Reportedly Helping Mobutu Build Military
AB210728 Paris J NE AFRIQUE in French 21 Jan 87 p 25-
FOR OFFICIAL USA ONLY
[Text] In principle, Za
return to the United St
will not only defend Zai
IMF and World Bank
American businessmen.
es next February. During the visit, he
Ited in a half-su
Reagan assured Mobutu t
him in the negotiations bet
was a half-success because s
interested in African probl
een Zaire and
me members
s still dis
regime, despite Nguza Karl-i-
criticizing Mobutu for so long
Karl-i-Bond, after his appoint
ent
meet with
Washington
since Ronald
n would support
e IMF. In fact, it
f Congress who are
rt of it. After bitterly
. public opinion, Nguza
Zaire's ambassador to
Yet, Mobutu Sese Seko's best su
dation, the group of Reaganites
withdrawal from UNESCO, th
rters are Ronald Reagan's
harge of the Heritage Foun-
k~ had campaigned for U.S.
for many months after assu
Mobutu held various daily wo
hey willingly recall that,
er in November 1965,
According to the same sours, during his eeting with President
Ronald Reagan in Decemb4r 1986, the Z 'Tian president called
on the United States to re bilitate the for er Kamina military
base in northern Shaba. D ring the Belgiai colonial period, this
base was among NATO' holdings in Afri and it was from
Kamina that, in Novem er 1964, Belgian aratroopers were
taken by U.S. aircraft t,' attack a rebellion ainst the central
Since the end of the civil war, all that rema~ ' of the Kamina
base is empty barrac and some sheds used d time to time
by the Zairian Air For . It comes under the aut ity of the first
military region, who t headquarters is in Lu 41mbashi. The
reopening of the Ka ina base, this time for the 'rian Armed
Forces, would confir that President Mobutu is hieving the
ambition he has cher shed for 5 years - to once aga turn Zaire
into the great Afric n military power it was in the ly 1970's.
The Israelis have It ped him in this direction by resus ating the
Kamayola Divisio which lost a large portion of its troops during
the Angolan war And in 1975. Reaganites are presently inciting
the United Stat to supply him with all necessary material
resources, inclu ing an important military base. But Americans
give nothing Without receiving something in exchange. They
might request authorization to use the Kamina base, for instance,
as a staging ground for a rapid intervention force to protect U.S.
interests around the world.
i
MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA
ANNEX
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