CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE OCTOBER 29, 1971

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP73B00296R000400160022-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: December 12, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 20, 2001
• Sequence Number: 22
• Publication Date: October 29, 1971
• Content Type: OPEN

S 1717,0
Approved For Re-I
reffeingiONAL (NAMEWBOMMO00400160026147
tober 29, 1971
to know the President's rationale for con-
tinuing or cutting off aid to a country,
and also to facilitate an independent aP-
praisal of the President's actions by Con-
gress.
My amendment would also require the
President to report any action taken pur-
suant to paragraph (3) of subsection 620
(v). That provision allows the President
to continue or resume aid to countries
which either first, take appropriate meas-
ures to halt drug trafficking after an
earlier determination by the President
that such measures have not been taken
by such countries, or second, require as-
sistance from the United States because
of "overriding national interest," even
though appropriate steps to combat drug
trafficking have not been taken.
In my opinion the overriding national
interest must be grave indeed to excuse
a country from taking steps to eliminate
drug traffic to the United States or its
citizens, and I would expect the fullest
justification for any presidential deter-
mination to continue aid which is based
on overriding national interest.
Except for the absence of a Presidential
reporting requirement, I am, I repeat,
pleased with the international drug con-
trol provisions included in H.R. 9910 by
the Committee on Foreign Relations. I
hope that the chairman and members
of that committee support this amend-
ment, and that the Senate accept it.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield:
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I have discussed
this matter with the Senator from West
Virginia. The substantive provision re-*
lating to drug traffic, as he rightly says,
Is in the bill. As far as I know, it is non-
controversial and no one is against it.
I think he is thoughtful and wise in pro-
viding that the President report to the
Congress. I certainly would accept the
amendment. I think the President cer-
tainly would have no objection, and
probably would welcome this opportu-
nity to report to Congress.
I accept the amendment.
Mr. RANDOLPH. I am grateful to the
chairman of the commitee.
Mr. JAVTTS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield.
Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, New York
is having probably the biggest problem in
the country in this area?not only that,
but drug traffic is probably the greatest
problem New York has ever had?I am
very anxious to work at this end to try
to damp the flow. There are three ele-
ments to damping the flow; First, the
illegality of the crime in pushing and
wholesaling drugs; second, rehabilitat-
ing drug addicts and trying to eliminate
the problem; and third, keeping the ad-
dict from engaging in crime.
I am glad the chairman of the com-
mittee has accepted the amendment. I
think the Senator has rendered us all
a service in keeping the administration's
feet to the fire in a proposition as crit-
ical as this one.
Mr. RANDOLPH. I appreciate the
comments of the Senator from New
York. I imovANmillefi.rilatct
t eten-
on to the pr
fide
terest in stopping the Illegal traffic in
drugs,
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I much too much money, and there is no
yield back the remainder of my time. point in my reiterating it.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. President, I yield It was my understanding?and the
back the remainder of my time. only excuse I can offer why the Senator
The PRESIDING OrtvICER. All time from Alaska is not here is that there has
on the amendment having been yielded been a change of signals?that the
back, the question is on agreeing to the Allott-Church amendment was coming
amendment. up. Now the Senator from Alaska wishes
The amendment was agreed to. to present a substitute, I believe, or an
Mr: SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will amendment to the amendment of the
the Senator yield? Senator from Missouri, and I understand
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I understood the it would be in order. He wishes, I believe,
Senator from Idaho (Mr. Ciroacii) to to strike it out?to strike out aid to
say he expected the Senator from Mis- Cambodia. I. believe it has been at the
souri to proceed. Or am I in error about desk. I think he ought to have an oppor-
that? tunity to present it, but there is a change
Mr. MANSFIELD. Go ahead, of signals here at the last minute. I did
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen- _ not know it was going to come up just
or from Missouri is recognized. now, because I thought the Church-
Mr. 8YMINGTON. Mr. President, my Allott amendment would be next in line.
perfecting amendment, as printed and But I wonder if the Senator from Mis-
es it appears in the RECORD, contains a souri would be willing, if he has any
printing error which I would correet at further remarks to make, to make those
this time. remarks now. If not, I am perfectly
The amount to be inserted in lieu of willing, after a reasonable opportunity to
$250 million in lines 14 and 20 of page reach the Senator from Alaska, to pro-
44 should be $341 Million in each in- ceed to a vote.
stance. Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, will the
I send a corrected copy of the amend- Senator yield?
ment to the desk, and ask that it be read. Mr. SYMINGTON. I am glad to yield
? The PRESIDING OrwiCE'R. The to the able Senator.
amendment, as modified, will be stated. Mr. AIKEN. I support the move of the
The assistant legislative clerk read as Senator from Missouri for increasing the
follows: available amount for Cambodia, because
On page 44, line 14, strike out "$250,000,- I feel that we have a very great respon-
000" and insert in lieu thereof "041,000,000". sibility for the pathetic condition of that
? On page 44, line 20, strike out "$250,000,- country today. And while I would not
Goo" and insert in lieu thereof $341,000,000". want to see this money spent for raising
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair an army and putting men to war against
will state that there are 9 minutes re- their neighbors, I feel that if this amount
maining to each side on this amend- of $341 million is agreed to at this time,
ment. Who yields time? it undoubtedly will not survive the con-
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I ference at that full amount, though it
ask for the yeas and nays on my per- might, but I doubt in any case if it
fecting amendment. would survive in .the Appropriations
Committee; so we are not spending this
The yeas and nays were or $341 million, we are simply making it
available to repair much of the damage
Which we have in part caused over there.
Mr. SYMINGTON. May I say to the
Senator from Vermont that the reason
for my amendment has much to do with
the McGee amendment which yesterday
was defeated. The McGee amendment
would have taken away any ceiling on the
amount of money that was being re-
quested by the administration for use
in Cambodia. My amendment agrees'
with all the money that was requested
by the administration, but says that be-
fore they spend additional money, they
should come to Congress for authoriza-
tion. That is the amendment that we
are discussing now.
Mr. President, I am prepared to yield
back the remainder of my time.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, first will
the Senator yield to me for a question?
Mr. SYMINGTON. I am glad to yield
to the Senator from Mississippi on my
time.
'Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, this is
largely a matter of legislative history,
and I wish to ask the Senator some ques-
tions after I make a very brief state-
ment.
This pertains, now, to the money that
Mr. SYMINGTON. The sum of $341 can be spent in Cambodia. When we had
million is the amount requested by the
1 -
the procurement bill up, We had a similar
26112M10130*CIA-RDP73B00296R90
viejg@avtrjusitit reference to how much
Mr. FULBRIGHT. That is correct. c. brad6rft-fri Laos. We excepted the
have already stated that I think this is bombing in both areas, and agreed on a
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator will state it.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. How much time re-
mains on the perfecting amendment of
the Senator from Missouri?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Nine min-
utes on each side. Who yields time?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. President, a par-
liamentary inquiry.
The PRESIDING Orto.i.CE'R. The Sen-
ator will state it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To whom is the time
allotted?
The PRESIDINCr OFFICER. To the
Senator from Missouri and the Senator
from Arkansas. Who yields time?
Mr. MANSFIELD. Time is running on
both sides.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. If no one
yields time, time will run against both
sides.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I
yield myself 3 minutes for the purpose
of an inquiry. The Senator from Missouri
is now offering a perfecting amendment
to increase the amount of the ceiling
for money to Cambodia from $250 mil-
lion to what figure?
October 29Agy5ived For RelemdfaAMACIAMMB0052369013.13400160022-7
$350 million figure, which was the budg-
et request, and I agreed to the amend-
ment on that basis.
The amendment would actually,
though, put that as an annual ceiling, a
legislative ceiling, which I thought was
all right; you can hardly argue against
it.
I said to the Senator from Missouri, as
he related yesterday in my absence, that
I would support a similar situation as to
Cambodia, to take the budget figure, as
we did before.
He has now amended his amendment,
as I understand it, to $341 million, which
Is the amount of the budget request.
We do carry the idea in the bill, though,
that this is a legislative ceiling for one
year.
Mr. SYMINGTON. That is correct.
Mr. STENNIS. All right. I think that is
sound.
Now, there is some language in the bill
that uses the word "expenditures." This
is technical language that I think ought
to be cleared up. It could be cleared up
in conference. The question about expen-
ditures or authorizations or commit-
ments?I do not know what all the terms
are, but what I wanted to make clear is'
that this amendment will have no limi-
tations on the spending, if they see fit, of
up to some $341 million; is that correct?
Mr. SYMINGTON. That is my under-
standing.
Mr. STENNIS. Yes. And the Senator
does not intend to limit, after agreeing to
this $341 million, in any way the expen-
diture of it for purposes in Cambodia?
Mr. SYMINGTON. The Senator is cor-
rect.
Mr. STENNIS. If the Senator will yield
further, what is an expenditure in this
field sometimes requires a definition or an
'understanding, and I will illustrate.
Some of these goods are used jeeps, we
will say, that we would send over into
Cambodia. I am just illustrating.
That is a used item, and there has to be
some ground rule on how it is going to
be evaluated in money figures. It is not
an expenditure of new money; it is just
the sending over of war material.
Does the Senator understand it that
way, and would he be amenable, in con-
ference, if this amendment passes, to
having ground rules established, the ones
that are used now?
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I
want to be careful not to say something
at variance with the language of the bill.
The bill provides:
For the purpose of this subsection, 'value'
means the fair market value of any goods,
supplies, materials, or equipment provided
to, for, or on behalf of Cambodia but in no
case less than 331/2 per centum of the amount
the United states paid at the time such
goods, supplies, materials, or equipment were
acquired by the United States.
That sounds fair and proper to me.
Mr. STENNIS. That language indicates
the principle that I am maintaining for.
I am not certain about that 33 1/3 percent.
I understand that is a reasonable ground
rule.
Mr. SYMINGTON. There is no use in
passing any legislation limiting the
amount of money but %11A..n haying the
Defense De~filY@PcInfiroKeleatiti
ministration's adjacent departmentifirst
. declare something useless and then give
it away to the Cambodians. We do not
want to waste time in the Senate by in
effect setting a ceiling which is the
amount they request then have them go
millions beyond the ceiling by declaring
worthless a lot of equipment they later
put to use in Cambodia. I believe this
clause is constructive as written in the
bill.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, we are
trying to make legislative history and
are not particularly arguing the bill. I
have tentatively agreed to this figure,
but it was with the understanding that
we were not going to be left in the dark
as to interpretations. I think the 331/3
percent figure is a reasonable amount,
but I do not want any unknown restric-
tions in this language, and the Senator
does not, either.
Mr. SYMINGTON. No. That is right.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, with the
understanding about this language and
with what' clarification may be neces-
sary as to the word "expenditure" in con-
ferende, I can support the amendment.
Mr. SYMINGTON. I thank the Sena-
tor. ?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time
of the Senator from Missouri has expired.
' Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, how
much time do I have remaining?
The PRESIDING OrviCER. Six
minutes.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I
think this is a very inconsistent policy;
this amendment rapidly escalates our-
expenditures in Cambodia.
The Senator from Missouri, I know,
was committed to amend his amendment
from $25 million to $341 million, be-
cause he recognized the fact of life that
the influence of the Armed Services Com-,
mittee is dominant in this body. But he
wanted an expression of a principle, that
Congress still has a slight, remote func-
tion to play in the foreign policy field.
If the Senator from Missouri had offered
an amount $1 under what the Pentagon
wanted, it would have the opposition of
the Armed Services Committee, and the
amendment would fail.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I will yield in a
moment.
I will not trade on any such basis. It
Is not the money that is bothering me,
although I think we are in bad shape
and cannot afford it. It is the principle
of now starting to construct an enormous
military machine, using foreign bodies
backed by American money and guns.
The Joint Chiefs have been very can-
did in the newspaper?I do not know
whether they intended to be or not?
but they are intending to build an army
of more than 300,000 Cambodians.
I assume they are doing the same in
Laos, because they have asked for a
similar vast increase in Laos; and, of
course, Thailand is our bastion country,
into which we have poured billions of
dollars and will continue to do so.
I do not know why it is not legitimate
for the Senate to take the responsibility: announced policy, of going to Peking,
Do we want to go down that road again? and I think it is against the interests of
2e112/81tAtOscutalAtROM30002,961490640130P6E022-7
S 1717i
us in the form of the Gulf of Tonkin res-
olution. At that time, we were misled by
lies about what had happened, and our
emotions were appealed to?we were told
we had been attacked on the open seas
In an unprovoked manner, and I and ev-
erybody else except two Members of the
Senate fell for it.
There is no excuse now for a similar
mistake. Our eyes are open. We know
what is going on. We know the greatest
tragedy and loss to this country since
the civil war is going on in Asia. Why do
we wish to go down this road again in
Cambodia and in Laos?
We are headed in this direction be-
cause of the dominant influence of the
military committee and the military es-
tablishment in this country. I know of no
reason for it other than they want to do
it, No good reason has been given to me
as to why we want to organize and pay
for an enormous army in Cambodia. I
' am against it.
I realize that the votes are here; and
if I am the only one who votes against it,
I will, because at issue is whether we are
going to construct an enormous army of
Cambodians. We have already approved
one in Laos and, of course, Thailand has
enormous amounts of money in here for
the maintenance and construction of an
enoromus army. When I say "enormous,"
I am referring to the fact that it is far
beyond the capacity of these little coun-
tries to support the military establish-
ments we encourage on them. Cambodia
had approximately 35,000 in her army
when Sihanouk left the country. We have
already built that up to 185,000, and-
there are reports to the effect that by
1975 or 1976 they will have 300,000. We'
pay all the bills. Here is a limit of $341
million. Next year it will by $500 million,
and the next year it probably will be
$700 million. That is the road we are
headed down.
If we had been attacked, or were about
to be destroyed, nobody would hesitate
to respond. There is that difference be-
tween Tonkin Gulf and this. There we
had been told, erroneously, that we had
been attacked, and we fell for it, There
is no similar excuse in this case. We are
deliberately undertaking obligations far
beyond the needs and against the inter-
ests of Cambodia, The people of Cam-
bodia are going to be the victims here,
just as the people of Vietnam have been
the victims of that situation. The people
of Cambodia do not want this to happen
to them. They would like us to go home
and leave them alone.
Somebody said that we are not going
in there. The newspapers said the other
day that they have doubled the amount
of military advisers in Pnompenh. The
Senator from New Jersey has been trying
to get a personnel limit. I support his
efforts.
I just want to make my position clear.
I am not arguing about $15 million or
$20 million. I am arguing about the
policy of this country in undertaking an
endless operation in Southeast Asia to
build up huge military forces there.
I think It is against the President's
S 17172 Approved For RP-IA"ANtAiMMICWEEDIRL3BOCEEISPZ0110400160022?ttober 29, 1971
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I will yield for a
'question.
Mr. President, how much time do /
have remaining?
- Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I
do not know when this unanimous-
consent agreement was entered into, and
ask unanimous consent for an additional
10 minutes.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
must object, because the time was avail-
able this morning, and that is when part
of the time was lost. But I would sug-
gest that 10 minutes be taken out of the
bill.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield 5 minutes
from the bill to the Senator from
Missouri.
Does the Senator from New Jersey
wish some time?
Mr. CASE. I would like 2 minutes.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, how
much time do I have on the amendment?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. One
minute.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I.yield that minute
plus 5 minutes on the bill to the Senator
from Missouri.
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I
would not want the Senate to misunder-
stand the basic purpose of this perfect-
ing amendment.
What we want to do is establish con-
trol of the vast amounts of money being
spent in the Far East. I think it fair to
say Congress has lost control of the ex-
penditure of that money. This amend-
ment would now give the administration
all the money they say they needed in
Cambodia for next year; but before they
spend any additional Money, it will be
necessary for them to come back and ob-
tain additional authorization.
If anyone believes this amount is too
much, that' can be brought up when the
matter comes to the Senate for appro-
priation approval, or, prior to that, for
same when it comes. before the Appro-
priations Committee.
In my oPinion. the Chairman of the
Committee on Armed Services has been
quite fair with respect to this proposed
legislation. It is probable that we would
not be able to adopt this amendment if
he had not agreed we should establish
control if the administration wants ad-
ditional money.
Therefore, and with the premise that
we will have a chance to get into this
matter at the time the Senate approves
appropriations, I will vote for the per-
fecting amendment which I have sent to
the desk.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator from Arkansas yield?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield 3 minutes to
the Senator from New Jersey.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from New Jersey is recognized for 3
minutes.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, although I
have worked with the Senator from Mis-
souri on this amendment, on which we
are cosponsors, and I fully respect his
honor in fulfilling the commitment to
thoSe who he assured would be given a
chance to vokliarillifederndMIRVIVade 2002Nigit ? tilit5M11)
ment, I am under no such obligation, I the amounte
made no such commitment. I fully sup-
port the action of the committee on this
particular matter which is to support
adoption of the Symington committee
amendment for the $250 million ceiling
for the fiscal year and a 200 personnel
limitation in the same amendment. The,
$250 million represents roughly the cur-
rent rate of American assistance. On the
same premise as that just now urged by
the Senator from Missouri, I urge that
we keep it at the present rate while we
are considering the whole question of our
obligation and the depth of our commit-
ment in 'this new area. It has only been
a year and a half since we have gotten
into this particular situation. We got into
it without congressional approval, wholly
on the basis of the discretionary funds
used by the administration. It was later
approved, it-is true, when we considered
the supplemental appropriation bill last
year, but it was approved on the basis of
a much smaller amount than this year,
an amount adequate to take care of the
current level operation which I think is,
if anything, excessive?$250 million.
However, it should remain the same and
I urge the Senate to turn down this pro-
posed increase of $91 million in this area.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BYRD
of Virginia). All time has now expired.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I send
an amendment to the desk in the nature
of a substitute to the pending amend-
ment.
The PRESIDING GeraCER. The
amendment will be stated.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
On page 41, lines 13 and 11, strike out the
words "in excess of $150 million.".
On page 14, beginning with "In" on line
20, strike out everything down through and
including "any" on line 23, and insert in lieu
thereof "No".
On page 44, line 24, insert immediately
after "equipnient" the words "shall be".
On page 41, line 25, strike out "such." and
insert immediately after "year" the date
"1972".
On page 45, strike out everything on lines
1 through 6 and everything on lines 16
through 19.
On pages 45 and 46 redesignate paragraphs
(e), (f), and (g) as paragraphs (d), (e), and
(f), respectively.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
BYRD of Virginia) . The Chair will say
that the amendment offered by the Sena-
tor from Alaska is not in order, that it
Is not a valid substitute, and does not
amend the same place in the bill as the
amendment offered by the Senator from
Missouri.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I suggest
the absence of a quorum for a brief
moment?I withdraw that request, Mr.
President.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President,
yield myself 2 minutes on the bill to
clarifythe situation.
? Mr. President, I was told by the Sena-
tor from Alaska that all he wished to do
was to change the amount in the amend-
ment of the Senator from Missouri from
the $341 million to $150 million. It is as
simple as that. So that I do not under-
stand why it is not in order. It was sent
to the desk. That is the way it was told
to me, that the Senator from Alaska was
Senator from Missouri from $341 to $150
million. The Senator from Alaska has
a right to do that, and, of course, from
my point of view, I shall support it be-
cause I do not approve of an increase
In the amount as offered in the amend-
ment of the Senator from Missouri.
The Senator from Alaska told me what
he wanted to do, that he wanted to
change the amount to $150 million. I do
not understand why it is not in order.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
BYRD of Virginia). The Chair will say
that the amendment offered by the Sen-
ator from Missouri affects two Places in
the bill. The amendment offered by the
Senator from Alaska affects five different
places, including a different page of the
bill.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I have
sent another copy of a perfecting amend-
ment to the desk which I would ask the
Parliamentarian to rule on its accepta-
bility to the amendment of the Senator
from Missouri.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will report the perfecting amend-
ment.
The legislative clerk read as, follows:
On page 14, lines 13 and 14, strike out the
words "in excess of $250 million" and insert
"$150 million."
The PRESIDING Or r iCER. The
amendment is in order.
Who yields time?
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. How
much times does the Senator require?
Mr. GRAVEL. As much time as I may
need to make my introductory remarks,
and then I will be happy to yieli to other
Senators who may wish to address them-
selves to this same issue.
The PRESIDING OrVICER. The Sen-
ator from Alaska may proceed.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, my orig-
inal amendment was to eliminate all
money for Cambodia. This is not new. I
offered a similar one last year, along with
several of my colleagues; but we were
not successful last year.
I am totally distressed over the fact
that this body chooses to escalate our in-
volvement?and I use the word "esca-
late" because I have heard it mentioned
here that we are treading water and
keeping the same commitment we had
last year. That is not the case. Members
should be on notice that we are escalat-
ing, that we are not treading water.
It seems unlikely that we could garner
enough support from the membership to
secure passage of my original amend-
ment, so a,t the request of the Senator
from Arkansas I am happy to modify my
amendment to leave out the bombing
Provision and to permit a modicum
amount for cleanup operations. We could
try at least to rehabilitate the country
and leave it in a semblance of the state
in which we found it. That is the reason
I have gone along with the $150 million.
The $150 million is still treading
water, but not the $250 million.
As I recall the incidents last year, we
went into Cambodia on a unilateral de-
eision, without the permission of Con-
gress, and spent money to the tune of
Wng that money from aid
gone to other countries.
October 24pm?yed For ReleCadVeRAIIMATA111?@MPQ1144S14,011400160022-7
What came before this body last De-
cember was a piece of legislation to put
back the money the President had spent -
unilaterally, robbing various aid pro-
grams to do so. The amount was first $100
million. Then the request was for $150
million; so, thus far, what has been spent
in Cambodia, in excess of 1 year, has been
$250 million.
What was agreed to, before the fact,
was $150 million. Now we are asked to
agree, before the fact, to $250 million.
If that is not escalation, then ob-
viously?
Mr. FITLBRIGHT. Mr. President, if
the Senator from Alaska will yield on
that point, the Senator from Missouri's
perfecting amendment makes it $341 mil-
lion. Actually, the $250 million is what
the committee bill provides and then yes-
terday the McGee amendment was sug-
gested and voted down, which would have
lifted any ceiling at all. The Senator from
Missouri, as he has stated, had the un-
derstanding of the Senator from Mis-
sissippi (Mr. STENNIS) that we would
change this amount today to $341 mil-
lion. The Senator from Alaska would be
cutting- the $341 million back to $150
million.
Mr. GRAVEL. That is right.
' Mr. FTILBRIGHT. The issue is sim-
ple: Do we want to increase the amount
of money to Cambodia to build up a large
army, which we will have to support, or
do we wish to stabilize at a lower level?
These amounts are simply a symbol of
a policy. I would hope the Senate would
not go on record as saying it is in favor
of, in effect, of letting the administration
do whatever it deems proper in Cam-
bodia and in Laos. I do not understand
how this can be interpreted as a re-
straint. It is for 1 year. Next year they
will say, "We want $550 million," And
the year after they will want $800 mil-
lion, and we will have to have a ceiling
of $800 million.
The Senator from Alaska is trying to
cut back by about $200 million, when
judged against the $341 million being of-
fered by the Senator from Missouri. I
think that is a very simple proposition.
The substitute amendment of the Sena-
tor from Alaska draws attention not only
to money, but also to policy.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I ask that
the amendment be modified as identified
by the Parliamentarian.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment is accordingly Modified.
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. GRAVEL. I yield.
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President,
again I hope that the Senate ?does not
get the wrong impression about the basic
thrust of the position some of us are
taking on this measure. It did not make
any real difference what the figure is
that was approved by the Foreign Rela-
tions Committee or passed by the Senate
In the past, the administration has spent
the money the way they wanted and to
the amount they desired. Let me repeat,
the basic thrust of this amendment is to
get some control.
One time a man told his attorney,
"When I die, I will leave my wife $1 the military from $35,000 at the time Excess defense articles, that is some
million." Approved For Release 2002001010011MoREPP31313112.9t ike0T4615tEr60122_pu. million.
His lawyer said "You haven't $1
million."
The man said, "I know, but it will look
great in the papers."
That is the type and character of op-
eration we have been conducting around
here. It has been going on for years. It
ought to stop. Our limitations of money
may have looked great in the papers, but
at times they have no practical meaning.
Whatever the Congress authorizes is
all of the money that should be spent by
the administration.
For those who think that this is too
much money?and I am one of them?
there will be a full chance to analyze the
matter in coming days and weeks as to
how much should be reduced.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I would
hope that the Senator would join me in
my amendment. If he feels that the
money being spent is too much, let us
say that it is too much and not go any
further.
Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, the
Senator and I have discussed this matter.
He has come in with a heavy reduction.
If we get control, later we can determine
the amount of money. Without control,
we are talking to the winds.
Mr. GRAVEL. How would that give us
control? If we say $500 million, what
will stop them from spending $500
million?
Mr. SYMINGTON. The Senator ap-
parently has not read the amendment,
or the bill as it came from the Foreign
Relations Committee.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, would
the Senator yield me 5 minutes of his
time so that I might discuss the matter?
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I had
ftsked the distinguished ranking minor-
ity member of the committee to yield
me 3 minutes for the same purpose.
Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, I would be
glad to yield time to The Senator from
Montana. However, first I would like to
clear up any misunderstanding that may
exist. The State Department is in favor
of the Symington proposal to increase
funds to $341 million. I am sure of that.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, would
the Senator from Vermont yield me 5
minutes after he has yielded time to the
Senator from Montana?
Mr. AIKEN. Yes. Mr. President, I yield
3 minutes to the Senator from Montana.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Montana is recognized for 3
minutes.
Mr. MANSFIELD'. Mr. President, when
President Nixon recognized the govern-
ment of Prince Norodom Sihanouk, he
dispatched two men to the embassy?it
was not a legation at the time?to repre-
sent us. In the interim, when Sihanouk
was overthrown, there were nine mem-
bers of our military?I do not believe
they were attached to the military mis-
sion in Phnom Penh. Today there are in
excess of 150 civilian and military per-
sonnel, with the military in the prepond-
erance.,
Not so many days ago, there appeared
in the public prints an outline of a 5-
year aid plan for Cambodia, I think esti-
mating in 1975 or 1976 an increase in
S 17173
lieve $700,000, which is a higher figure
than mentioned by the chairman of the
Foreign Relations Committee, and at the
Same time increasing the cost of the par-
ticipation to us.
I did not vote for the Case-Symington
amendment in committee. I have not
voted for an amendment on the floor,
that I recall. And the reason I have not
voted, and will not vote, for either the
Gravel amendment, the substitute, or
the Symington amendment, is because to
do so in my opinion would be to place a
stamp of approval on our participation
in what we are doing in Cambodia not
only now, but also in the years ahead if
the programed outline bears any sem-
blance to the truth. That I will not join
in doing.
So, I want the RECORD to be clear. If it
were a clearcut, outright doing away with
all funds, I would vote for it. However, to
me $150 million is just the same as $341
million.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who
yields time?
Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, I yield 5
minutes to the Senator from Mississippi.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, the
Senator and I have discussed this prob-
lem. This is the problem we had also in
the Laotian amendment. We settled that,
and I think we will get it sustained in
conference.
This is almost identical. Let us move
back a little. About 15 months ago we
were fighting in Cambodia. Our men were
fighting there and were getting killed.
The President of the United States or-
dered them in there. No one except a
foolish man?and he is certainly not a
foolish man?would have sent our men
there if he thought it was not necessary
In order to maintain our position and
protect our men.
This is altogether a different policy.
Our men are out of there now. Whoever
the men are that are fighting there, they
are not our boys. However, this country
is in jeopardy. They are having to fight
for their lives. It is still a question of
whether they will be able to survive.
So, what is this aid? Here it is broken
down. We have a breakdown of these
other countries.
This will be an absolute control. They
cannot spend more.
Of the $341 million, $240 million is for
military assistance. About two-thirds of ?
it goes for ammunition and spare parts
and about one-third of it goes for various
other equipment.
My guess is that about half of that
equipment, at least, is secondhand equip-
ment, something that we have already
used. It is valued according to the formu-
la to which the Senator referred.
The next item is economic aid, $110
million. That is an item in this amend-
ment. That is big AID, $10 million, eco-
nomic aid. There is no military and no
Department of Defense. The Senator
from Arkansas gets excited about that
sometimes.
This is a program that comes from the
Foreign Relations Committee. Public Law
480, food for peace, $20 million.
Approved For Release 2002/01/(10 ? TVEtra90016M11400160022q)
S 17174 CONGRESSI NA ctober 29 1971
The total is $341 million. That is the
estimate of about what would be needed.
I have already explained about the
ammunition and the spare parts. I think
at this stage we have no valid choice
except to affirm these figures, as the Sen-
ator from Missouri who is well versed in
this matter has proposed, and we will
let this matter ride on with an actual
ceiling on it. They cannot spend any more
than that and in that way we have es-
tablished legislative control on how
much will be spent in this country for
all purposes, including this used military
equipment. So it is on that basis we are
trying to get this as a practical matter.
I commend the Senator for his willing-
ness to settle this on a reasonable, prac-
tical basis. We follow next year from this
starting point and we will have control
on it.
Mr. President, I hope the amendment
of the Senator from Alaksa is rejected
?? and that the amendment of the Senator
from Missouri is agreed to.
Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, I ask for
the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
? Mr. GRAVEL. Mr. President, how
much time remains on each side?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Alaska has 3 minutes remain-
ing.
Mr. GRAVEL. How much time is re-
maining to the Senator from Arkansas?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Arkansas has 5 minutes re-
maining.
Who yields time?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. President, the dis-
tinguished chairman of the Armed Serv-
ices Committee has made the case very
well. However, I cannot allow the REC-
ORD to stand with out answering a re-
mark made by the distinguished chair-
man of the Committee on Foreign Re-
lations to the effect that assitance for
Cambodia in line with the budget re-
quest would actually go against the pol-
icy of the administration or the Presi-
dent.
The President's policy is to withdraw
American troops ris rapidly as practicable
from that part of the world. His policy
is that U.S. troops should not be used
to defend every threatened country; his
policy is to encourage such other coun-
tries to bear the primary responsibility
for defending themselves.
But the Nixon doctrine does not mean
that we have abandoned all our friends in
the world or that we have abandoned all
non-Communist nations that want to re-
sist aggression. There are two main parts
of the doctrine. One important part is
that we will help our friends defend
themselves.
There is no question that what is go-
ing on in Cambodia is not a civil war.
There has been some argument about
whether the war in South Vietnam is a
civil war. In Cambodia it is out and out
aggression by North Vietnam. In Cam-
bodia the Cambodians want to defend
themselves and they are defending them-
selves Our policy is to help them, but
without providing any Of our troops to
Committee on Foreign Relations has
pointed to the fact that there may be
some relaxation of tensions, attributable
in part to the President's forthcoming
visit to Moscow and Peking, and he has
referred to the fact that the situation is
better in South Vietnam. The situation
is better in South Vietnam, but the situa-
tion is better; because we helped the
South Vietnamese build up an army ca?
pable of defending itself while we have
been withdrawing. The situation has not
improved, because of any change in at-
titude on the part of the North Viet-
namese.
If we help the Cambodians defend
themselves, we are acting in our own in-
terest, particularly if we recall that we
have sane treaty obligations to such
countries as Thailand.
The distinguished majority leader
spoke in terms of Sihanouk being "over-
thrown." I do not know what he means
by the word "overthrown," but I am sure
he did not mean to leave the impression
that Sihanouk was not replaced in the
regular manner. In fact, Lou Nd l was put
in power in the same way that Sihanouk
came to power, and as I understand it,
the very people Sihanouk appointed re-
placed Sihanouk and put Lou Nol in.
That does not mean that I necessarily
agree with the form or composition of
the government there as now constituted.
But that is really not the question.
Mr. President, I urge that the Gravel
amendment be rejected and that the
Symington amendment be approved.
Mr. BROOKE. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Alaska yield for a ques-
tion?
Mr. GRAVEL. I ha\re only a few min-
utes remaining. Will the Senator from
Arkansas yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Vermont is yielding time on
the bill.
Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, how much
time do we have remaining?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. There
are 2 minutes remaining to the Senator
from Arkansas who has the opposition
time on the amendment, and 3 min-
utes remaining to the Senator from
Alaska.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Does the Senator
from Massachusetts wish me to yield 2
minutes?
Mr. BROOKE. Yes. ?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I
yield 2 minutes to the Senator from
Massachusetts.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Massachusetts is recognized.
Mr. BROOKE. I wish to ask if the
Senator from Alaska broke down the
,Senator
of money into items he would
recover by the $150 million he proposes
to reduce it to?
Mr. GRAVEL. No, I have no break-
down.
Mr. BROOKE. The Senator cut the
tcrtal sum and it is not broken down, as
the Senator from Mississippi? indicated.
Mr. GRAVEL. No,
Mr. BROOKE. It puts a ceiling on the
total amount and reduces it to $150 mil-
Mr. GRAVEL. That is correct. I want
to emphasize that the word "ceiling" in
my opinion is a misnomer.
Mr. BROOKE. I am sorry. I did not
understand the Senator.
Mr. GRAVEL. It is a misnomer. I do
not think it will work. I. have not seen
any ceiling in this body work.
If this body had sonic of the sharing
of responsibility we talk about we could
end this cottonpicking war. The infer-
ence was made that the invasion was by
North Vietnam. The invasion of Cam-
bodia took place by this country. I hope
that would be made clear.
When we hear a government that talks
of sterile democracy which it is going
to put aside, and we see a program by
this administration to escalate, let us
go over the arithmetic again.
Last year the President, when we uni-
laterally invaded Cambodia, submitted
a figure of $100 million and all we did
was approve it. Along with that request,
to pay back Peter who had been robbed
by Paul, was another $150 million that
was approved by this body. Now, we are
asked by the administration, by the com-
mittee, for $250 million, which is an
escalation of $100 million more than we.,
approved last year, and we are asked
to go to $300 million carte blanche.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator yield?
Mr. GRAVEL. I yield.
Mr: CASE. Mr. President, I intend to
support the Senator on this amendment,
but I protest against the suggestion that
what we are doing here is an exercise in
futility. For the first time this will put
an absolute ceiling, not on appropriations
but on spending. For all purposes it over-
rides all provisions for discretionary
authority, transfers, or anything else;
and I do not want any legislative history
to be on the books which would give
the chance for any executive agency to
say this was not intended to be an ab-
solute ceiling on spending of all kinds.
Mr. GRAVEL. My colleague has been
here much longer than I, and I would
defer to his judgment, but I have been
disillusioned in my tenure here.
Mr. CASE. Of course, but we have done
this before and in supporting the Sen-
ator's amendment I want to be very clear
that we are not intending in any way
to leave any of those loopholes which
have existed still in effect.
Mr. GRAVEL. I realize that is the good
faith of my colleague.
Mr. CASE. Not only good faith, but
action by this body. We are not intend-
ing to leave any discretionary authority
to transfer from one fund to another
or anything of that sort, and I hope the
Senator will not leave the suggestion
that he intends it.
Mr. GRAVEL. No, not the slightest. I
endorse my colleague's statement 110
percent.
I have found as we close loopholes,
down the street they open them just as
fast. They prosecute the war regardless
of what we say, regardless of demon-
strated facts on our part.
I hope this will be a firm reduction and
do the fighar lion without regard to how it shall be that my amendment will be agreed to,
The dis dillittCgairogiiigaSeuMaiai /1 0 : CIA-RDP73600296R000ipeeremt12!prld do what Members of
Pywred For Reciermefl0210,1=
October 29, E.-EsorurvriLCiffORDBOOMMOD400160022-7 S 17175
the Senate have said they want done:
Tread water. But to increase beyond $150
million is not treading water, and every
one should understand it is an escalation
of our activity in Cambodia.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator yield?
Mr. GRAVEL. I yield.
Mr. CASE. The point of my protest
before about use of the suggestion that
this is just an idle gesture, is given spe-
cial support by this newspaper report
which said that the Joint Chiefs of Staff
had proposed four ways to get around
any ceiling over spending?or any lim-
itation, rather, not a ceiling on spend-
ing?which is what we are doing?but
to get around any limitation on author-
ization in this bill. It is for that reason
that it is terribly important that we not
only have a limitation on authorizations,
which we have, but this ceiling, which
would be on the spending.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
? Mr. GRAVEL. I yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time
has expired on the amendment.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
yield 1 minute on the bill.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, I have
no doubt about it. This is an actual ceil-
ing. This is a limitation on expenditures.
It was our committee which dug in and
dug out to get the figures and required
the report. We know what the expendi-
tures are going to be. We know what the
program is. We know what are the used
goods and the evaluations put on them.
Have no doubt about it?this is an actual
ceiling and an actual limitation.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ques-
tion is on agreeing to the perfecting
amendment of the Senator from Alaska
to the amendment of the Senator from
Missouri. The yeas and nays have been
ordered, and the clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll.
Mr. MANSFIELD (after having voted
in the negative). Mr. President, on this
vote I have a pair with the Senator from
Louisiana (Mr. ELLENDER) . If he were
present and voting, he would vote "yea."
If I were at liberty to vote, I would vote
"nay." Therefore, I withdraw my vote.
Mr. BYRD of West Virginia. I an-
nounce that the Senator from Louisiana
(Mr. ELLENDER) , the Senator from
Georgia (Mr. GAMBRELL) , the Senator
from Oklahoma (Mr. HARRIS) , the Sen-
ator from Indiana (Mr. HARTKE) , the
Senator from Hawaii (Mr. INOUYE) , the
Senator from Washington (Mr. JACK-
SON), the Senator from Massachusetts
(Mr. KENNEDY) , the Senator from Wyo-
ming (Mr. McGss), the Senator from
South Dakota (Mr. McGovsaN), and the
Senator from Maine (Mr. Music's) are
necessarily absent.
I further announce that if present and
..voting, the Senator from 'Washington
(Mr. JAcicsoN) would vote "nay."
I further announce that, if present
and voting, the Senator from Massachu-
setts (Mr. KENNEDY) and the Senator
from South Dakota (Mr. MCGOVERN)
would vote "yea."
_ (Mr. JORDAN) , the Senator from Iowa
(Mr. MILLER) , the Senator from Ohio
(Mr. TAFT) , and the Senator from Texas
(Mr. TOWER) are necessarily absent.
The Senator from South Dakota (Mr.
MUNDT) is absent because of illness. .
The Senator from South Carolina (Mr.
THURMOND) is absent on official business.
The Senator from Vermont (Mr. STAF-
FORD) , and the Senator from Connecticut
(Mr. WEICKER) are detained on official
business.
If present and voting, the Senators
from Nebraska (Mr. CURTIS and Mr.
HausicA), the Senator from Vermont (Mr,
STAFFORD) , the Senator from Ohio (Mr.
TAFT), the Senator from South Carolina
(Mr. THURMOND) , and the Senator from
Texas (Mr. Town) would each vote
"nay."
The result was announced?yeas 26,
nays 53, as follows:
[No. 279 Leg.]
YEAS-26
Bayh
Gravel Nelson
Brooke Hart Pell
Burdick - Hatfield Proxmire
Byrd, W. Va. Hughes Randolph
Case Mathias Ribicoff
Church Metcalf Schweiker
Cotton Mondale Tunney
Cranston Montoya Williams
Fulbright Moss
NAYS-53
Aiken Dole McIntyre
Allen Packwood
Allott Dominick
Eagleton Pastore
Anderson Eastland Pearson
Ervin
Baker Percy.
Beall Fannin Roth
Bellm Saxbe
on Fong
Bennett Goldwater
Bentsen
Bible Griffin Scott
Smith
Sparkman
BrockBogs Hansen Gurney Sparkman
Hollings Stennis
Buckley Humphrey
Javits Stevens
Byrd, Va. Stevenson.
Cannon Jordan, N.C. Symington
Long
Chiles Talmadge
Cook
Magnuson Young
Cooper ?
McClellan
PRESENT AND GIVING A LIVE PAIR, AS
PREVIOUSLY RECORDED-1
Mansfield, against.
NOT VOTING-20
Curtis Jackson ? Muskie
Ellender Jordan, Idaho Stafford
Kennedy Taft
MoGee Thurmond
McGovern Tower
Miller Weicker
Hruska
Inouye Mundt
So Mr. GRAVEL'S amendment was re-
jected.
The PRESIDING 0.e.r iCER. The ques-
tion is on agreeing to the -amendment
offered by the Senator from Missouri. All
time on the amendment has expired.
The yeas and nays have been ordered,
and the clerk' will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll.
Mr. PASTORE (after having voted in
the affirmative) . On this vote I have a
live pair with the Senator from Louisiana
(Mr. ELLENDER) . If he were present and
voting, he would vote "nay." I have al-
ready voted "yea." I therefore withdraw
my vote, as an accommodation to the
Senator from Louisiana.
Mr. BYRD of West Virginia. I an-
nounce that the Senator from Louisiana
Gambrel'
Harris
Rartke
tor from Indiana (Mr. HARTics), the
Senator from Hawaii (Mr. INouys), the
Senator from Washington (Mr. JACK-
soN) , the Senator from Massachusetts
(Mr. KENNEDY), the Senator from Wyo-
ming (Mr. MeGss) , the Senator from
South Dakota (Mr. McGovERN) , and the
Senator from Maine (Mr. Music's) are
necessarily absent.
I further announce that, if present
and voting, the Senator from Washington
(Mr. JACKSON) would vote "yea."
I further announce that if present and
voting, the Senator from Massachusetts
(Mr. KENNEDY) would vote "nay."
Mr. GRIFFIN. I announce that the
Senators from Nebraska (Mr. CURTIS and
Mr. HausKA), the Senator from Idaho
(Mr. JORDAN) , the Senator from Iowa
(Mr. MILLER) , the Senator from Ohio
(Mr. TAFT), and the Senator from Texas
(Mr. TOWER) are necessarily absent.
The Senator from South Dakota (Mr.
MUNDT) is absent because of illness.
The Senator from South Carolina
(Mr. THURMOND) is absent official
business.
If present and voting, the Senators
from Nebraska (Mr. CURTIS and Mr.
11111751u), the Senator from Ohio. (Mr.
TAFT), the Senator from South Carolina
(Mr. THURMOND) , and the Senator from
Texas (Mr. TOWER) would each vote
"yea."
The result was announced?yeas 45,
nays 36, as follows:
[No. 280 Leg.]
? YEAS-45
Aiken Dole Percy
Allott Dominick Randolph
Baker Eastland Roth
Beall Fannin Saxbe
Bellmon Fong Scott
Bennett Goldwater Smith
Bentsen Griffin Sparkman
Bible Gurney Spong
Boggs Hansen Stafford
Brock Hollings Stennis
Buckley Long Stevens
Byrd, Va. Magnuson Symington
Byrd, W. Va. McIntyre Talmadge
Cannon Packwood Tunney
Cook Pearson Young
NAYS-36
Allen Ervin Metcalf
Anderson Fulbright Mondale
Bayh Gravel Montoya
Brooke Hart Moss
Burdick Hatfield Nelson
Case Hughes Pell
Chiles Humphrey Proxmire
Church Javits Ribicoff
Cooper Jordan, N.C. Schweiker
Cotton Mansfield Stevenson
Cranston Mathias Weicker
Eagleton McClellan Williams
PRESENT AND GIVING A LIVE PAIR, AS
PREVIOUSLY RECORDED-1
Pastore, for. -
NOT VOTING-18
Curtis
Ellender
Gambrell
Harris
Hartke
Hruska
Inouye
Jackson
Jordan, Idaho
Kennedy
McGee
McGovern
Miller
Mundt
Muskie
Taft
Thurmond
Tower
411 so ,Mr. SYMINGTON'S amendment was
agreed to.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, I move
that the vote by which the amendment
was agreed to be reconsidered.
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, I move
Mr. GRIFFIN. I announce that the (Mr. ELLENDER) , the Senator from to lay that motion on the,table.
Senators from Nebraska (Mr. Corm and Georgia (Mr. GAMBRELL) , the Senator The motion to lay on the table was
Mr, HwysKAAkiiii4MRA&Oit die1M11310 2/iiM/Oli1 CIAPROPMB04206ROONFOV16(0022-7
S 17196 Approved For ReleaiiCti-).*Aci-FttiPC7CM4b2g60064.0160022-7 October 29, 19 i
The result was announced?yeas 28,
nays 52, as follows:
[No. 282 Leg.]
YEAS-28
Allen
Allott
Baker
Bennett
Bible
Cook
Dole
Dominick
Eastland
Ervin
Brock Fannin
Buckley ' Fong
Byrd, Va. Gurney
Byrd, W. Vs. Hansen
Cannon Hollings
Aiken
Anderson
Bayh
Beall
Bellmon
Bentsen
Boggs
Brooke
Burdick
Case
Chiles
Church
Cooper
Cranston
Fulbright
Griffin
Harris
Hart
Cotton
Curtis
Eagleton
Ellender
Gambrell
Goldwater
Gravel
Jordan, N.C.
Jordan, Idaho
McClellan
Smith
Stennis
Stevens
Talmadge
Young
NAYS-52
Hatfield Percy
Humphrey Proxmire
Javlts Randolph
Kennedy Ribicoff
Long Roth
Magnuson Saxbe
Mansfield Schweiker
Mathias Scott
McIntyre Sparkman
Metcalf Spong
Mondale Stafford
Montoya Stevenson
Moss Symington
Nelson Taft
Packwood Weicker
Pastore Williams
Pearson
Pell
NOT VOTING-20
Hartke Miller
Hruska Mundt
Hughes Muskie
Inouye Thurmond
Jackson Tower
McGee Tunney
McGovern
So Mr. DOMINICK'S amendment was re-
jected.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I
move to reconsider the vote by which the
amendment was rejected.
Mr. PASTORE. I move to lay that mo-
tion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was
agreed to.
Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President, I send
to the desk an amendment, and ask for
its immediate consideration.
The PRESIDING OnoiCER. The
amendment will be stated.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
On page 32, line 11, strike out "$585,000,-
000" and insert in lieu thereof "$452,000,000".
Mr. BYRD of West Virginia. Mr.
President, may we have order?
The PRESIDING OtoriCER. The Sen-
ate will be in order.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator yield?
Mr. CHURCH. 11/Ir. President, in order
to accommodate three Senators, the Sen-
ator from New Jersey (Mr. CASE), the
Senator from Arkansas (Mr. FULBRIGHT),
and the Senator from Mississippi (Mr.
STENNIS) , I have agreed to yield briefly,
with the consent of the Senate, provided
I do not lose my right to the floor.
[Disturbance in the galleries.]
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Gal-
leries will be in order. The Sergeant at
Arms will see that order In the galleries
is restored.
The Chair recognizes the Senator from
New Jersey.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, may
we have order?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ate will be in order.'
The Senator from New. Jersey may
r. CASEntipargiadbftr REIffia9411
amendment affecting page 34 of the bill,
which is at the desk..
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment will be stated.
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
the amendment.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, I ask unani-
mous consent that further reading of the
amendment be dispensed with, and that
the amendment be printed in the RECORD.
The PRESIDING 010/010ER. Without
? objection, it is so ordered. And, without
objection, even though the amendment
of the Senator from Idaho is the pend-
ing business, the Senate will proceed to
consider the amendment of the Senator
from New Jersey.
r. CASE'S amendment is as follows:
On page 34, lines 13 and 14, strike out
"South Vietnam, North Vietnam, Thailand,
Cambodia, or Burma" and insert in lieu
thereof "North Vietnam, or Thailand".
Mr. CASE. I thank the Senator from
Idaho for his consideration, and, pursu-
ant to my assuronce, I shall delay him
only slightly, I am sure there will be no
diffieulty about this amendment.
Mr. President, on page 34 of the bill,
the committee added a provision to the
effect that no funds authorized or appro-
priated under any provision of law should
be made available by means of any offi-
cer, employee, or agency of the United
? States to finance military operations by
foreign forces in six countries?Laos,
South Vietnam, North Vietnam, Thai-
land, Cambodia, or Burma? unless Con-
gress specifically authorizes the use of
such funds for that purpose, and desig-
nates the area where they will be used.
I have received from the chairman of
the Armed Services Committee an ex-
pression of concern about the breadth
of this amendment, and after discus-
sions with him, we have arrived at the
' understanding that--
? Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
Chair maintain order? I think this is an
important matter, and the Senator ought
to be heard, in view of a possible agree-
ment on the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ate will be in order. The Senator will
suspend his remarks until order has
been restored. ?
The Senator may proceed.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, the chair-
Man of the Armed Services Committee,
the distinguished Senator from Missis-
sippi (Mr. STENNIS) and I have dis--
cussed this matter. His concern about
the number of countries affected by the
amendment as reported by our commitL?
tee was one that I recognized with re-
spect. Pursuant to an understanding -that
we have arrived at, I now offer this
'amendment to eliminate from the effect
of the bill three of the six countries,
leaving in Laos, North Vietnam, and
Thailand. That is the whole amendment.
The Senator from Mississippi has been
gracious enough to say that while he
wants to consider this matter further at The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who
a later stage in the legislation; for the ' yields time?
purposes of the consideration of the bill Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
in the Senate at this time, such an Senator yield me 1 minute?
amendment is satisfactory. ? Mr. FULBRIGHT: I yield.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the Mr. STENNIS. I want the record to
Senator yield to me?show that I consider this an important
200210titee: OA-ROBT7a15,0402.66R0004611160022at I am free to follow it
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, as I have
understood, now, the Senator proposes
that in section 513 on page 34 of the
bill, the words "South Vietnam, Cam-
bodia, and Burma" be stricken out of
lines 13 and 14, as they appear.
Mr. CASE. That is right.
Mr. STENNIS. That would leave, of
course, then, the words "Laos, North
Vietnam, and Thailand," as they appear
now in the bill.
- Mr. President, the Senator from New
Jersey has correctly stated the under-
standing that we have had about this
legislation, and we have agreed, for the
purpose of this legislative step, that this
modification of section 513 will put the
section where it may stay in the bill in
that form, and we can move forward with
the bill without any further amendment
being filed or brought up by the Senator
from Mississippi.
I do make the point, as the Senator
has implied, that this is done without
prejudice to a full consideration of the
.matter in conference, based on the facts
as they may exist at that time.
Is that the Senator's understanding?
Mr. CASE. The Senator has stated
correctly what his position is, and the
basis on which his agreement not to op-
pose this amendment or to offer another
amendment to this section is based.
Mr. STENNIS. I thank the Senator,
and I wish to make this further explana-
tion: I think leaving the word "Laos"
in here
Mr. CASE. That is another section.
Mr. STENNIS. I beg the Senator's
pardon? -
Mr. CASE. I thought the Senator was
talking about another section.
Mr. STENNIS. No, I am talking about
the same section. I think that leaving the
word "Laos" in the bill as now written is
perhaps a contradiction of a provision
on the same subject in the military pro-
curement bill we passed 21/2 weeks ago.
However, I think that to get all the real
facts on this matter before the Senate
now would require a closed session. There
Is hardly time for that now, and I do not
think there is any mood for it, either. So,
as an original proposition, and without
prejudice, we agreed to let this matter go
as has already been outlined, and then
in conference there will be a chance to
really consider and discuss any facts
that might be relevant; and I would
rest on the decision that is made by the
Neon ferees.
Under those circumstances, I hope
that the modification will be acceptable
to the Senate. I have talked with some
Senators about supporting my position in
this matter, and I now withdraw the re-
quest because I believe this meets the
situation.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, I yield to
the chairman, if he wishes to make com-
ment.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I am in full agree-
ment with that.
Approved For Relea
up, as is the Senator from New Jersey,
of course, or anyone else?the chairman
of the committee or anyone else?and get
the facts together and get it before the
conference.
Mr. CASE. The situation is that the
matter will be in conference, because the
House bill does not contain any provi-
sion on this subject.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield back the re-
mainder of my time.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time
on the amendment has been yielded back.
The question is on agreeing to the
amendment of the Senator from New
Jersey.
*The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. CHURCH addressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING 0.6VICER. The Sen-
ator from Idaho, by unanimous consent,
yielded to three Senators in order, the
first of those Senators being the Senator
from New Jersey.
*Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, un-
der the agreement, I send an amend-
ment to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment will be stated.
is legislative clerk read as follows:
On page 34, line 4, strike out the words
", Laos, or South Vietnam."
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without'
objection, the amendment will be in
order.
Who yields time?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield myself 2
minutes.
Mr. President, this is exactly the same
circumstance as the previous one, by.
agreement with the Senator from Mis-
sissippi. We have discussed this matter.
This involves the return to the Commit-
tee on Foreign Relations of jurisdiction
over military assistance to Laos, South
Vietnam and Thailand.
We have agreed to strike out South
Vietnam and Laos but to retain Thai?
-
land. The Senator from Mississippi does
not disagree, I may say, with the return
ultimately of the jurisdiction over Laos
and South Vietnam, but he thinks it is
premature to put it in this bill at this
time. Therefore, by mutual agreement, I
have agreed to this modification.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Mississippi.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, the Sen-
ator from Arkansas has correctly stated
the matter. Thailand is left in the bill;
and military assistance hereafter, if this
becomes law, will be handled by the Com-
mittee on Foreign Relations. I am willing
that, in the future, jurisdiction with re-
spect to Southeast Asia be returned to
the Committee on Foreign Relations. I
think that while we are there and our
men are there and the activities are go-
ing on, we ought to keep it where it is,
because they have to be considered to-
gether. I appreciate the Senator's
position.
With that, I am satisfied with the sec-
tion as modified.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who
yields time?
Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield back the re-
mainder of my time.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who is
se 2002/01/10 : CIA-RDP73_B002,96R000400160.022-7
ti
acng for the minority !meter? Does trie intention or tne committee to usurp any
minority leader yield back the remainder jurisdiction of the Armed Services Corn-
of his time on this amendment? mittee. This amendment clarifies the in-
Mr. GRIFFIN. I yield back the remain- tention of the committee.
der of the time. I yield back the remainder of my time:
? The PRESIDING OFFICER. All Mr. STENNIS. I yield back the re-
time on the amendment has been yielded mainder of my time.
back. The question is on agreeing to the The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time
amendment of the Senator from on the amendment has been yielded back.
Arkansas. The question is on agreeing to the
The amendment was agreed to. amendment of the Senator from Mis-
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I sissipPi.
have a technical amendment that does -/The amendment was agreed to.
not affect the bill at all, except to clear The PRESIDING OFFICER. In ac-
up a typographical error. cordance with the previous order, the
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair recognizes the Senator from Utah
amendment will be stated. (Mr. Moss) .
- The legislative clerk read as follows:
On page 20, line 18, after "1969,", insert
ESTABLISHMENT OF ARCHES NA-
TIONAL PARK, UTAH
the following: "8350,000,000 for the fiscal
year 1970, and".
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the amendment is in order.
Who yields time?
?Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield myself 1
minute.
Mr. President, this has no effect upon
the bill at all. It is a mistake, a typo-
graphical error, on the part of the stall
in preparing the bill. They did not make
is a hard bill to
many errors, but this
keep straight. This anaendment has no
tantive in the bill.
effect on anything subs
I yield back the remainder of my time.
Id back the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I yie
The PRESIDING OF
FICER. All time
on the amendment has been yielded back.
The question is on agreeing to the
amendment of the Senator from Arkan-
sas.
The amendment was agreed to.
AMENDMENT NO. 548
*Mr, STENNIS. Mr. President, I send to
the desk an amendment on which we
hink it will take
have agreed. I do not'
more than a minute or minute and a
half.
Mr. CHURCH. Mr. ]President, I have
no objection, on the basis of the same
FICER. The clerknt.
qualification.
The PRESIDING OF
will state the amendme
The legislative clerk read as follows:
On page 57, line 7, after the word "respon-
sibilities" insert the follo
in the jurisdiction of these committees", and
on line 11, after the word "information" in-
"within the juris-
sert the following words:
diction Of these committees".
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the amendment is ?in order.
Who yields time?
Mr. STENNIS. I yield myself 1 min-
ute.
Mr. President, this is another amend-
ment on which we worked out an agree-
ment with the Senator from Arkansas. It
relates to reports being made by the De-
partment of State to the Committee on
Foreign Relations, and we are in favor
of that. The language was so broad, how-
ever, that we thought it would include
some items over which the Committee on
Armed Services has primary jurisdiction.
These words merely correct and clarify
that point, and I hope the amendment
will be adopted.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I
wish the RECORD to show that that is
exactly what we agreed. There was no
Mr. MOSS. Mr. President, I ask the
Chair to lay before the Senate a message
from the House of Representatives on
S. 30.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
ALLEN) laid before the Senate the
amendment of the House of Representa-
tives to the bill (S. 30) to establish the
Arches National Park in the State of
Utah, which was to strike out all after
the enacting clause, and insert:
That (a) subject to valid existing rights,
the lands, waters, and interests therein with-
in the boundary generally depicted on the
map entitled "'Boundary Map, Proposed
Arches National Park, Utah," numbered
RPSSC-138-20, 001E and dated September
1989, are hereby established as the Arches
National Park, hereinafter referred to as the
"park"). Such map shall be on file and
available for public inspeotion in the offices
of the National Park Service, Department of
the Interior.
(b) The Arches National Monument is
hereby abolished, and any funds available for
purposes of the monument shall be avail-
able for purposes of the park. Federal lands,
waters, and interests therein excluded from
the monument by this Act shall be admin-
istered by the Secretary of the Interior (here-
inafter referred to as the "Secretary") in
accordance with the laws applicable to the
public lands of the United States.
SEC. 2. The Secretary is authorized to ac-
quire by donation, purchase with donated or
appropriated funds, transfer from any Fed-
eral agency, exchange or otherwise, the lands
and interests in lands described in the first
section of this Act, except that lands or in-
terests therein owned by the State of Utah,
or any political subdivision thereof, may be
acquired only with the approval of such
State or political subdivision.
SEC. 3. Where any Federal lands included
within the park are legally occupied or util-
ized on the date of approval of this Act for
grazing purposes, pursuant to a lease, per-
mit, or license for a fixed term of years is-
sued or authorized by any department, es-
tablishment, or agency of the United States,
the Secretary of the Interior shall permit
the persons holding such grazing privileges
or their heirs to continue in the exercise
thereof during the term of the lease, permit,
or license, and one period of renewal there-
after.
SEC. 4. Nothing in this Act shall be con-
strued as affecting in any way any rights of
owners and .operators of cattle and sheep
herds, existing on the date immediately prior
to the enactment of this Act, to trail their
herds on traditional courses used by them
prior to such date of enactment, and to wa-
ter their stock, notwithstanding the fact that
the lands involving such trails and watering
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TEE wigagl,FAK,R,sim 2002/01/10 : CIA-RDP73BOV*R,00400160022-7
Mt/ iv'
PAGE
enough vote Switches to pass
the two measures if their total
added up to somewhere be-
tween .$2.329 billion and $2.9.
J, billion: .
tw? The two .bills reported outi
'yesterday: '
' ? A $1.144 billion economic: '
and humanitarian aid author-
ization. This 'includes $250 mil-
lion for development loans,
$175 'million for technical as-
sistance, $225 million for the
Alliance ' for Progress, $250
million for Pakistan refugee
relief and $139 million for the
United Nations,
,Senat(6. Panel,4
Cuts', Amount'
By $1.2 -Bi1liQn
By Spencer Rich ,
'Washington Post Staff *Mai
;. The Senate Foreign .Re?
lations Committee voted
unanimously yesterday tc
revive foreign aid, but only
after splitting it 'into tvk
?
separate econOrnic and mil.
itary assistance bills,' and
Slashing more than
lion from. President .1\lix.!.
on's $3.6 billion request Lou
this year. . 1.'
The two bills, totalling,
$2.329 billion in ? alithoriza.,
tions, APO intended as an "iri.;,
terim" substitute for the $2,9:
billion measure rejected byl
the Senate Friday by a 41 to
27 vote.
White House I Press Secre
tary Ronald L Ziegler told re-
porters immediately after the
committee action, "We are not
satisfied with that level. It is
not sufficient to meet the es
sential elements of the Prpsi.
dent's policy." He added, "So
may quote the President" that
:ithe $2.329 billion figure "s inJ
1- sufficient."
Senate Minority Leader
Hugh Scott (it-Pa.) told report.
crs that he believed the com-
mittee had reported out the
best bills it could, given the
deep disagreements within' It
iover the aid program, 'I ?
But he said he would offer
floor amendments fo raise the
total, although not all the way
't to $2.0 billion again, because
that would simply risk at
'ether rejection of the prograt
by the Senate. II cApipl rbeibd
Breed he could v caunt5Art/
1
40 A$1185 billion milit,urY
aid authorization, which in-
cludes $350 million for mili-
tary aid grants, $435 million
for war-related economic sup-
porting assistance (of which
$85 million is earmarked for
Israel) and $400 million for
foreign military credit sales
(with $300 million in arms
,. credit authority earmarked for
Israel), The biggest cuts were
in this area.
An unusual feature of corn-,
nittee voting was the use by :1
3cott of 'a proxy from Karl E.:1
Mundt (fl-S.D.), who has been
absent', from the Senate for 1,t
two years because of illness
and has neyer appeared on the
floor during that period.
Mundt 'S proxy Was decisive in
an 8-to-7 committee vote to
.package humanitarian and eco.
,nomic aid together, instead of
leaving them separate and ,Z
!having a total of three bills. "
tazins
a .23.1.1million ceiling on aid
t( bodia which the ac17.71
mistattation as now Ma" it
will accept after,threatening
a.. ysto of?tr.-1 Tarter?aid r
identical pro.-
on
senking $ait raillian in funds
fpr Cambodia aid, it had op-
11.OqPri a C.eiilitlg jjisaJt
wartir1 to cosarls mnra for
osuas,geswg?reasons.
State Department spokes.?
man Charles Bray said yester-
day, in the first such assur-
ance yet given by the admin-
istration, that Cambodia aid'
programs "have come close to
their peak and will be declin-
ing." The $341 million ceiling
was designed to head off a sus-
pected increase,
? )rovislons
guerations In r
Pare annual mill. ?Ization for
luue.ta?SIAIL-1.1.UU
r fUltsjsk_maguad_e_5_14
land or JoscthwinjgQt
_pro rani of financing
Le,Ln
ILLag_a_aenate Majority Leader
-war-
? ? raniiiMINMON
? ix?nmatliq_auleaujakent
4.5.111.1.s..121111 1,
bespite committee approval,
? the aid program still faces
j serious obtacles. Foreign Re-
lotions Committee Chairman
J. W. Fulbright (D-Ark.) and
' some other former aid support-
ers who voted against the bill
on the floor last Friday still
have serious reservations about
the use of military assistance
as a tool to "bribe" potential
' allies and still fear that aid to
Cambodia may lead to deeper
U.S. involvement and a long-
term financial drain.
a so
Traditional foes of high for-
eign spending may not be fully
/assuaged by the committee's
big slashes.
In the House, which has al-
ready passed a $3.4 billion
authorization bill, the whole
Issue will have to come to the
floor again. Foreign .Affairs
Committee Chairman Thomas
E. Morgan (D-Pa.) said yester-
day it will be hard to get both
bills through the House separ-
ately, since economic aid has
always piggybacked to passage
on the shoulders 'of military
aid.
Even if the authorizations
pass both chambers the pro-
gram could face new cuts in
the appropriations commit-
tees. Senate Appropriations
Committee Chairman Allan J.
Ellender (D-La.) said yester-
day he couldn't envision his
committee voting out more
than $2 billion to $2.2 billion
in actual appropriations.
)
Before taking final action
yesterday, the committee de-
feated, 10 to 6, a proposal by
Sens. Jacob K. Javits (R-N.Y.),
Clifford P. Case (R-N.J.) and
John Sherman Cooper (R-
KY.) to approve a flat $2,4 bil-
lion in a single bill, and in-
clude language barring any
funds in the bill from being
used for Cambodia and Laos
)except for the purpose of
'assisting in withdrawal of U.S.
_RbsenfivaiM8odt60
jayits told reporters before
the meeting that he would
peek a $2.9 billion authoriza-
tion, but Case said the three
shaved the figure to $2.4
billion when it became clear
that the higher figure had no
chance.
Fulbright and the bulk of
Committee Democrats opposed
the Javits-Case-Cooper pro-
posal because they favored a
three-bill approach ? seeking
to have each of the separate
portions of the program fly on
its own ? and a lower total
figure, .$2.065 billion.
The committee first'votedi
9 to 7 for a three-bill system,;
then voted 8 to 7 to join eco-.
nomic and humanitarian aid.,
It went down each separate,
Item in the two final bills, and',
Republicans won enough in-
creases to push the final two-
bill total to $2.329 billion. Scott
said he favored a single pack-i
age for fear military or eco-
nomic aid portions might be
'defeated if sent to the floor
,alone, in a three-bill system.
? Deputy Secretary of Defense
David Packard, in a statement
,yesterday, blasted defeat el
the earlier bill, saying (in s
reference to Fulbright) that
he hoped it didn't indicate s
desire to return to "Fortress
Arkansas."
He declined to link the bill's
defeat to any 'possible slow-
down of U.S. withdrawal from
Vietnam, but in. emphasizing
the need for military aid to
U.S. allies, said the U.S. Navy
would have to pull out of the
Mediterranean without the
I support of Greece and Turkey,
22'4