THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF COMMUNISM IN 1970

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP73B00296R000500160001-8
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 92
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 16, 2005
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: June 23, 1970
• Content Type: OPEN

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THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF COMMUNISM IN 1970
HEARINGS
COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JUNE 23, 24, AND 25, 1970
(INCLUDING INDEX)
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Internal Security
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
52-387 WASHINGTON : 1970
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office
Washington, D.C. 20402-Price 40 cents
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COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri, Chairman
CLAUDE PEPPER, Florida JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio
EDWIN W. EDWARDS, Louisiana RICHARD L. ROUDEBUSH, Indiana
RICHARDSON PREYER, North Carolina ALBERT W. WATSON, South Carolina
LOUIS STOKES, Ohio WILLIAM J. SCHERLE, Iowa
DONALD G. SANDERS, Chief Counsel
RICHARD L. SCITLTZ, Associate Chief Counsel
ALFRED M. NITTLE, Legislative Counsel
JOHN F. LEWIS, Coordinating Editor
GLENN It. DAMS, Editorial Director
ROBERT M. HORNER, Chief Investigator
WILLIAM G. SHAW, Research Director
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CONTENTS
June 23, 1970: Testimony of-
Page
Monika Flidr---------------------------------------------------
4632
Emilio C. Callejo------------------------------------------------
4648
June 24: Testimony of-
Alexey Vasilyevich Levin---------------------------------------
4657
June 25, 1970: Testimony of-
Jiri Mladek---=------------------------------------------ ---=-
William R. Kintner---------------------------------------------
4696
Index------------------------------------------------------------
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The House Committee on Internal Security is a standing committee
of the House of Representatives, constituted as such by the rules of the
House, adopted pursuant to Article I, section 5, of the Constitution of
the United States which authorizes the House to determine the rules
of its proceedings.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 91ST CONGRESS
House Resolution 7, January 3, 1969, as amended by House Resolution 89,
February 18, 1969
RESOLUTION
Resolved, That the Rules of the House of Representatives of the 90th Con-
gress, together with all applicable provisions of the Legislative Reorganization
Act of 1946, as amended, be, and they are hereby adopted as the Rules of the
House of Representatives of the 91st Congress * * *
RULE X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall ,be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,
* * * *
RULE XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
* * * * * * *
11. Committee on internal Security.
(a) Communist and other subversive activities affecting the internal security
of the United States.
(b) The Committee on Internal Security, acting as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make investigations from time to time of (1) the extent,
character, objectives, and activities within the United States of organizations or
groups, whether of foreign or domestic origin, their members, agents, and affili-
ates, which seek to establish, or assist in the establishment of, a totalitarian
dictatorship within the United States, or to overthrow or alter, or assist in the
overthrow or alteration of, the form of government of the United States or of
any State thereof, by force, violence, treachery, espionage, sabotage, insurrection,
or any unlawful means, (2) the extent, character, objectives, and activities
within the United States of organizations or groups, their members. agents, and
affiliates,' which incite or employ acts of force, violence, terrorism, or any unlaw-
ful means, to obstruct or oppose the lawful authority of the Government of the
United States in the execution of any law or policy affecting the internal security
of the United States, and (3) all other questions, including the administration
and execution of any law of the United States. or any portion of law, relating to
the foregoing that would aid the Congress or any committee of the House in any
necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Internal Security shall report to the House (or to the Clerk
of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investigation,
together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Internal Security,
or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times and
places within the United States, whether the House is in session, has recessed,
or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, and to require, by subpena or otherwise,
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the attendance and testimony of such witnesses and the production of such books,
records, correspondence, memorandums, papers, and documents, as it deems
necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the signature of the chairman of the
committee or any subcommittee, or by any member designated by any such chair-
man, and may be served by any person designated by any such chairman or
member.
28. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness of
the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee ; and, for that pur-
pose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by the
agencies in the executive branch of the Government.
* * * * * * *
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THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF COMMUNISM IN 1970
TUESDAY, JUNE 23, 1970
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY,
Washington, D.C.
The Committee on Internal Security net, pursuant to call, at 10 :25
a.m., in Room 311, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C.,
Hon. Richard II. Ichord, chairman, presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Richard H. Ichord
of Missouri, Claude Pepper of Florida, and Louis Stokes of Ohio.
Staff members present: Donald G. Sanders, chief counsel, and Rich-
ard L. Schultz, associate chief counsel.
The CHAIRMAN. The meeting will come to order.. copy of the
resolution authorizing these hearings will be inserted at this point.
(The resolution follows:)
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, the Congress of the United States in the Internal Security Act
of 1950, has heretofore declared its findings that there exists a world-wide Com-
munist movement whose purpose it is by espionage, sabotage, and other means to
establish a 'totalitarian dictatorship in countries throughout the world; that the
establishment of such dictatorship results in the denial of fundamental rights
and liberties ; that in the United States the Communist organization has thou-
sands of adherents awaiting and seeking to advance a moment when overthrow
of the U.S. Government by force and violence may seem possible of achievement,
and that the Communist organization in the United States, together With other
circumstances of the international Communist movement, presents a clear and
present danger to the security of the United States and the existence of American
institutions ;
WHEREAS, the validity of these findings was reiterated in Public Law 90-237,
approved by the President on January 2,1968;
WHEREAS, recent events transpiring within the United States and data
which has come to the attention of the Committee indicate that the Communist
Party USA, continues its support of, and allegiance to, the international Com-
munist movement, including its purpose to establish totalitarian dictatorships
in those countries in which it operates ;
WHEREAS, in order to assess the extent and severity of the current threat of
the Communist movement within the United States for the purpose of evaluating
the necessity for-remedial legislation, together with the exercise of oversight
function in relationship to the administration of the Internal Security Act of
1950, the Committee desires to adduce testimony and evidence concerning the
Communist Party USA at the present time and in very recent years ; and in view
of the intention of international communism to impose its system of government
on the people of the United States, the Committee also desires to adduce testi-
mony and evidence concerning the effects of communism on the individual rights
and liberties, and the quality of life thereby, of peoples of various nationalities
already subjected to Communist government ;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that investigation be conducted and
hearings be held by the Committee on Internal Security, or a subcommittee
thereof appointed by the chairman for that purpose in Washington, D.C. or at
such place or places, and on such date or dates as the chairman may designate,
(4631)
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relating to the purposes, objectives and activities of the Communist Party USA,
to advance the objectives of the world Communist movement, the strategy, tactics
and means it employs or would employ to achieve such objectives, its affiliation
with other organizations, domestic, foreign, or international, the extent of its
influence, direction, support or control of any such other organization, the extent
to which it may act in concert 'with, aid or assist, or be supported by foreign
Communist powers, their agents or nationals, the effect of Communism on the
individual rights and liberties, and the quality of life thereby, of peoples of
various nationalities already subjected to Communist government, and all other
facts in relation to the foregoing.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee meets this morning to receive testi-
mony from witnesses who have escaped from behind the Iron Curtain
in search of freedom.
Consistent with the mandate of this committee in assessing the ex-
tent and severity of the communist movement within the United States
for the purpose of evaluating the necessity for remedial legislation in
the exercise of our oversight function of the committee in relation to
the administration of the Internal Security Act of 1950, the commit-
tee in these hearings will receive testimony from persons whose in-
dividual rights and liberties have been repressed and who, from grim
experience, can furnish current personal information with regard to
life behind the Iron Curtain.
Whom do you have as the first committee witness this morning,
Mr. Counsel?
Mr. SCHULTZ. Miss Monika Flidr, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Miss Flidr, it is a pleasure to welcome you to the
committee. Will you first raise your right hand and be sworn.
Miss Flidr, do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miss FLIDR. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF MONIKA FLSDR
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you state your full name and address please?
Miss FLInR. My name is Monika. Flidr, and I live it 10 West 66th
Street in New York City.
Mr. SCHULTZ What is your place of birth?
Miss FLIDR. I was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How long did you live in Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. I lived there 24 years.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What was your occupation upon arriving at adult-
hood?
Miss FLIDR. I was a. teacher at a junior high school.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What grades did you teach there?
Miss FLIDR. I taught children from 9 to about 14 15 years of age.
Mr. SCHULTZ. When did you come to the United Atates ?
Miss FLIDR. I came to America almost 5 years ago now.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Have you, since your arrival fiere, been in contact
with recent defectors, people coming from Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. Yes, frequently.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Do you have relatively current information as to the
living conditions over there at this time?
Miss FLIDR. I do. I am also frequently reading Czech newspapers
and they are quite revealing.
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Mr. SCHULTZ. What newspapers do you read?
Miss FLIDR. I am reading, among others, Pravda, also Rude Pravo,
which is the official newspaper, and I am reading quite a, few others
as they come my way.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Miss Flidr, would you describe for the committee
your reasons for leaving Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. I detested living in a totalitarian state with an absolute
dictatorship, with all its lack of freedom.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you describe for us how you left, what you
had to do to leave Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. Legal emigration from the country practically does not
exist. It exists according to the Constitution, but the people who apply
are waiting for years and years and they never get any answer. You
do not do that any more. You just do not ask for legal emigration.
You just have to wait and try to escape.
Now I was lucky. Five years ago all tourist offices were run by the
state-I mean, by the party. This is not a private business; all the
money goes to the state.
Mr. SCHULTZ. When you say "party," what party is this?
Miss FLIDR. That is the Communist Party. You have to pay them,
and at that time they started to capitalize on the people's desire to
travel and they established short trips. In my case it was a 3-day
business trip to Vienna, for which I had to pay my 1 month's salary,
and I was permitted to go by bus to Vienna.
They made sure that we would not escape. The police checked with
us the day before to see that we did not sell any of our possessions
and we did not get any passports. It was the communist leader of
the group who had one group passport.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You say the police checked with you. What did they
actually do?
Miss FLiDR. They came to our apartment and had a look that every-
thing was in its place, that the more valuable possessions were not sold
out.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Is this a common practice of people who plan to
leave the country, to sell possessions?
Miss FLIDR. Well, today, no. Of course, if you do want to escape,
then you do try to do that. But practically today it does not exist any
more because the people cannot travel at all. These trips were curbed
and there is no freedom of travel whatsoever.
About half a year ago I read an official notice in the newspapers that
people can travel to Western countries only on official state business
and that means you are communists and are not expected to stay.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mentioned that "we" left Czechoslovakia. Who
went along with you?,
Miss FLInT. It was my mother and myself.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What steps did you take to prepare yourself to leave
Czechoslovakia.?
Miss Fiznr.. Well see, the steps are mostly mental. You have to
decide to leave. your country, which you love, and to come to a country
which is absolutely unknown to you because the communist prop-
aganda in Czechoslovakia and in other countries just doesn't give
you any objective information about Western countries.
Practically after we made up our mind, we just tried to smuggle
through France some proofs of our education and that was all. Other-
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wise, we just left with practically two small luggages and that was
about it.
Mr. SciluLTZ. Let's talk about the education first, since you were a
teacher. What is the basic goal of education in Czechoslovakia? Is it
to teach and educate the students or is it to advance the communist
ideology?
Miss FLIDR. It is both, with the emphasis on the second part. Abso-
lutely the absolute indoctrination and infiltration of our students is
most important. Then, of course, you do teaching, too, but all the
teachers in Czechoslovakia, not only during their studies but also dur-
ing their professional life, have to go to frequent meetings where
they are asked and taught how to indoctrinate children.
Practically while you teach any subject, you are supposed to place
the achievements of communism and try to inject, some bad remark
about the Western World.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are the textbooks controlled by the Communist Party,?
Miss FLmR. Oh, absolutely. As a matter of fact., it is so different
from, for example here. The teachers or the principals don't have any
word in selection of the textbooks. As a matter of fact, there is no
selection. For every grade for certain subjects there is only one text-
book which went through very strict censorship and you have to teach
exactly according to that textbook. And at a certain time of the year,
let's say in December at all grades throughout the whole of Czecho-
slovakia you are supposed to teach that subject from approximately
the same page of the textbook.
The CnAraarAN. At that point, Mr. Counsel, do you mean that there
are textbooks for all of the subjects taught within the grade'? I thought
you said there is only one textbook for that grade?
Miss Fr,inx. For each subject. You don't have a choice. Let us say
in political science, in history, or in math or any other subject you
cannot decide which textbook you want to teach from; there is only
one for that subject.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Do students with inquiring minds ask questions or
challenge statements in the textbooks?
Miss FLIDR. No, they do not. It is such an atmosphere of hypocrisy,
everybody is so afraid. You do not. dare to do it because you know,
should you ask any nonconformist question, it would be in your per-
sonal record. It would follow you throughout your whole life. You
could not continue in your studies, you could not get. a decent pro-
fessional position later on, you could not do anything; you could not
travel, you could not get an apartment, you could not even buy a cow.
So children do not ask these questions and the parents discourage
them, and very often nice teachers who do not want them to be un-
happy later on discourage them., too.
Mr. ScirurTz. Are teachers required to be a member of the Com-
lnunist Party?
Miss FLmR. No, they are not, but there are other restrictions. For
example, a teacher cannot go to church. According to our Constitution,
theoretically you do have a right to belong to the faith of your choice.
Practically, for example, if you are a teacher, you must not go to the
church because it does not compare with the communist morals, with
the communist personality.
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Mr. SOTIULTZ. You mention that the textbooks were controlled and
that you taught strictly from them. Were you able to deviate in any
manner or give any type of interpretation to what was in the textbooks?
Miss FLTDR. It was dangerous. You would not dare to give interpre-
tation, but often when, in your opinion, some information was skipped
from the textbook, you could let the pupils know by giving them that
information and saying, "but this is bad, it isn't so, and you should
realize where the truth it." But you were giving the information which
was not supposed to be given. Of course, you had to protect yourself.
Mr. Sch uLTZ. You mentioned that at your own risk you would go
to church. Does the law of Czechoslovakia take into consideration the
dignity of the individual?
Miss FLrnn. Absolutely not. You are practically an automaton. You
are either supposed to submit yourself or you can give up any idea of
a decent human life, not to speak about your profession.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mentioned that you had a constitution. Are
human rights accorded by this Constitution, but subject to recall?
Miss FLIDR. We do have a constitution, but it exists only in theory.
In practice practically every freedom, every right which you get is so
curbed and. limited that you cannot exercise it, you cannot use it any-
how.
Mr. SCHULTZ. I know that you have seen in this country freedom of
speech. Is freedom of speech, from the standpoint of dissent of stu-
dents, allowed in Czechoslovakia.?
Miss FLinx. No, it is not allowed whatsoever. If the Communist
Party and the police let the situation go that far as to some d emonstra-
.tion, which happens very infrequently, then the student leaders do
go to prison and anyone who is involved is stopped from going to
school again and the punishment is severe. That means the end of
your professional life and of your studies.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mentioned that they go to jail. How do they go
to jail, as a political enemy or as a criminal?,
Miss FLTDR. The pretense is that a band of hooligans sort of disturbs
the order of the quiet streets of Prague, or something like that, and
that is what you read in the newspaper. And yet when you are there,
you do realize that this is a serious and nonviolent, very orderly at-
tempt at a demonstration, which of course cannot be tolerated in a
communist state and described as such.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Do they ever grant permits to demonstrate?
Miss FLTDR. Pardon me?
Mr. Scrrui Tz. Does the government ever grant permits' to
demonstrate?
Miss FLTDR. Oh, no, nothing whatsoever. The only so-called demon-
strations are the demonstrations which are ordered, and that means
that all the students at all schools have to go to the, streets and listen
to the commuunist speeches of the communist leaders, which celebrate
the achievements of communism. This is so-called spontaneous
demonstration.
That is what you see, thousands of people which listen or are forced
to shout communist slogans. But this is preceded by weeks of prepara-
tion, when the principal calls all the teachers and he says you do have
to make pupils come. If they do not come, they have to bring a doc-
tor's certificate. Otherwise, it will have bad consequences for them. So
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.that. is the first demonstration prepared on order. When it is some-
-thing that you youself advocate, you just do not dare even to start
anything resembling a demonstration.
_ Mr. ScxuLTZ. As a school teacher, were you in the upper pay strata
of the working group in Czechoslovakia ?
Miss FLIDR. It is very paradoxical in Czechoslovakia. People with
academic education, with academic background, are not paid much
better than the workers, because the workers and the farmers are sup-
posed to be the careers of the regime, the supporters of communism.
So they are getting material privileges. As a young high school teacher
ou definitely do not make more than a semiskilled or a skilled worker.
Even, let's say, as a physician, after a couple of years your salary still
is not much more than a salary of skilled workers.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Could you comment for us on the availability of goods
that you could purchase with your salary?,
Miss FLmR. I was making about 1400 korunas a month. If I were
to tell you about the goods, I don't think that I will speak in dollars.
My salary would then be just the nominal value rather than the prac-
tical value of money.
. It is enough to say that if you, as a tourist, coming to Czechoslo-
vakia-you get 14 korunas for one of your dollars. If I, as a Czech, tried
to purchase a dollar for my travel or any other purposes, I have to pay
35 to the state bank. Now that depends which exchange you will take
for your basis.
If you say how much do I make in terms of 35 korunas, which
I have to pay for one American dollar, then perhaps I would make
something about $50 a month. Now if I would go with my salary
and I would try to buy a suit for a boy or for a young man, it would
cost .almost the entire 1 month's salary which a young high school
teacher would bring home. If you would try to buy electric appli-
ances, such as televisions or refrigerators, you would speak in terms
of at least 2 months' salary. You know this is the situation now.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What are the availabilities of these items?
Miss FLIDR. The availability is very limited. For example, if you
try to buy such a thing as a car, you have to wait about 4 years. Now
here is one of the subtle ways in which a communist regime can really
keep you oppressed.
You know, should you say anything against communism itself, on
your record and before you get the car, the committee which decides
whether you get it or not judges your recommendations and your
record. And should you even say anything against communism, you
could forget even such a thing as a car.
It is not only with the goods, it is with apartments. If you get mar-
ried and you just want to live in an apartment of your own, you have
to apply for it. You wait about 15, 20 years and, again, if you mis-
behave from the viewpoint of Communist Party standards, you can
forget it. You don't. even get a chance of getting a place of your own.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What are the qualities of the goods once you can
get on the list to get them?
Miss FLIDR. The quality is getting more and more mediocre and the
thing is you cannot practically appeal anywhere. There is no compe-
tition. Everything is state controlled; they are set standard prices.
You cannot go to any competition. If you want to buy that good,
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you have to get it. If you are dissatisfied with it and you complain
about it, usually in the newspapers you get the answer, which is prac-
tically an excuse and it does not help you any.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Let's get a little more basic than an automobile.
How about the foodstuffs, the things that you put on your table, are
they always available? Are they of good quality?
Miss FLIDR. In Czechoslovakia we practically don't have, house-
wives. Even a married woman with little children has to o?o to work
because they just could not afford to buy basic food and crothing for
the family if she would not work. The availability is bad.
If you go back from the office in the evening with a small child in
one hand and a shopping bag in the other, what happens is you go
through very long lines, through queues in practically all stores,
and you pay exorbitant prices.
Mr. SoriuLTZ. Who sets these prices?
Miss FLIDR. These prices are set by the state. When I say "by the
state," I mean by the Communist Party, because the chief executives,
the leaders of the country, are communists. It is well known that it
is not the President, but the first secretary of the Communist Party
who has the executive power, the greatest executive power over the
country. So when I say "the state," I mean the Communist Party,
because all. key positions are being held by devoted communists.
Mr. SCHHULTZ. To what extent could you. own personal or real.
property?
Miss FLInR. It is very confused. If I would not make- sense to any
American when I try to explain it, please stop me. For example,.
theoretically you are permitted to own a home of your own. That
means a little house, in theory. And according to the Constitution,
you know, certainly you should be entitled to having it.
Now in practice even if you own a home, one person of your family
can only have one room. So, in other words, if there is mother, father,
and one child, if you have a big home you can only live in three rooms
of that home. You cannot yourself rent the rest of the rooms. The
communist committee which distributes apartments assigns you a
tenant and you are forced. to accept that tenant.
If your child grows and 20 years later you want that tenant's
room for your now grown-up child and his family; you cannot get
that room. This is an open secret. You read about it in the news-
papers. Although you do own that. house, you practically don't have
any power of decisioonmaking over it.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How about personal property, your watch,. your
rings, this kind of thing?
Miss FLIDR. Well, there are things which are practically unobtain-
able, much too expensive in any communist country. A thing such
as jewelry or furs, that is undreamed about. Even if you are a work-
ing woman with good education and your husabnd is a professional,
still these are the things which are unobtainable. You spend so much
on food and basic clothing that you are not able to afford these things,
Maybe even you are afraid to have them, because furs and jewels-
that shows that you are bourgeois minded and that you are hostile
to the regime, that your set of values is wrong.
Mr. SCh ULTZ. Do you have a black market in Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. Well, there is quite a black market with the goods
which cannot be obtained in Czechoslavakia, namely, the Western
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goods, namely with American dollars. 'T'here is a store which is called
Tusaks, and if you obtain any Western currency, for that Western
currency you can buy Western goods in that store, which is spon-
sored by the state, by the Communist Party.
Now that leads to quite a black market, such that an American who
sells his $1 to the Czechoslovakian Bank for, let's say, 14 korunas
is offered by the Czechs about 90 or 100 korunas for that $1, because
the people are just dying to get some foreign goods of good quality,
which is unavail able on the domestic markets.
Mr. SGTruL'rz. If you don't have the Western dollars, you cannot
shop there?
Miss FLIDR. No, you cannot. This is one of the ways how the regime
tries to get the money. They do not support Western citizens to send
parcels to Czechoslovakia. As a matter of fact, they eliminated this
by setting such high custom dues that my friends frequently send me
the packages back.
If I send them a sweater or a little transistor radio, they cannot
afford to pay the custom due. They have to send it back. Therefore,
the government practically forces the people to write to their relatives
that they want foreign currency. Now if that foreign currency is sent
to Czechoslovakia, your friends or relatives are not permitted to hold
it. They have to go to the bank and right away exchange it for korunas
or for this special Tusak currency with which they can buy foreign
goods.
Mr. Scrrurmz. Are there any particular benefits for the hierarchy
of the Communist Party, such as shopping or hospitals ?
Miss FrreR. This is a very interesting point. Very often, frequently
you hear now you have free medical care in Czechoslovakia. I would
like to make a couple of comments about that.
First of all, you practically have no money left after you buy basic
food and modest clothing. You could not afford to pay for medical
care. That is one thing. You practically pay for it by paying the exor-
bitant prices which the state forces you to pay. Now if you go to the
hospital or to the doctor, you don't have any choice. There is a district
doctor.
The city-the district is virtually cut into districts and all people
living within a certain region of the city have to go to the doctor who
is assigned to them. If you do not like that doctor for professional or
personal reasons, you still have to go to him.
When you want an appointment, you do not get any. You come in
the waiting room, you spend there hours and hours, and you get only
a very limited time with your doctor.
So although you do not pay anything, these are the gross disad-
vantages which you have, and frequently you talk to the people who
say they would prefer to pay for it and get good care at their con-
venience.
Mr. SCTIIILTZ. Do all Czechoslovakians have, the same quality of
care?
Miss FLTDR. It practically works that way. If you are a communist
and you have good recommendations, you get pushed practically every-
where. You have the connections and you do get a preferential treat-
ment. A little telephone call from a party member, even if he does not
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know anybody at the hospital or anywhere, can make a world of a
difference.
(At this point Mr. Pepper entered the hearing room.)
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mentioned as a teacher you were not a member
of the Communist Party. When you were growing up and attending
grade school, did you belong to the Czechoslovakian Youth Party?
Miss FLIDR. Yes, you have to.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. At what age did you join this group?
Miss FLIDR. For every age of school children in Czechoslovakia
there is only one youth organization, which is established by the
party. For very young children it is so-called Sparkle, and very small
children who just start school go to that.
Then as you grow and about third or fourth grade you join the
Young Pioneers. Then at a later age, when you are approaching
about 15, you join the Czechoslovakian Youth, which was the organi-
zation which you mentioned.
Each of these organizations is preparing you for the next organiza-
tion. There are no organizations such as Scouts, or if any mother de-
cides she would like to start some organization for the children, she
cannot.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. What is the objective of these various organizations?
Miss FLIDR. These organizations are supposed to contribute to your
political education and to prepare you to be a good communist. You
are frequently listening to the communist literature, to the-experts
from communist books. You are discussing communist morality, the
idea of a communist citizen.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you say that these youth groups are a pre-
requisite to later obtaining a job .
Miss FLIDR. Oh, absolutely. It is not exactly of obtaining a job
but to obtain a job of your choice or at least almost of your choice, or
if you do want to continue with your school education after you are
through with your compulsory school education, then the member-
ship in these organizations is an absolute prerequisite.
Mr. Scrruurz. You mentioned the work of your choice. Are work-
ers free to choose their place of employment?
Miss FLIDr,. Again my explanation will sound a little confusing
and absolutely unreal. At the end of each school year the graduating
class cannot practically choose what they want to do. The principal
of every school gets a certain quota. In other words, only a certain
amount of the students from that school can continue with their edu-
cation, only a certain amount can go into certain professions, and then
comes the time when the political connections and affiliations and con-
victions of your pa-rents are examined very closely, Then is the time
when, if you are from a communist family, you have an enormous ad-
vantage. You can have excellent grades and yet you might not be
admitted at a school of your choice, and yet someone with very low
grades can.
Then you read very openly in our newspapers-I read just about
3 months ago in our newspapers that this is done because the children
from families of workers or farmers from good communist families
do not have the advantages of the home background, and even if their
grades are bad, they have to be supported and accepted primarily be-
fore the students with better grades but from intellectual families.
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This is admitted very freely, very publicly in the newspapers. That
is the dictatorship. There is nobody whom you could come to for help
or whom you could appeal to.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Once a person gets out of school, gets a job, whether
in a professional category or factory, how is the labor controlled or
how is his productivity assessed?
Miss FLIDR. You are getting a monthly salary and in most cases that
salary is available, unchangeable salary. It is very infrequent that you
would be profit motivated, like the more you produce the more you
made. That mostly does not happen. Therefore, you work for the state
and you do get that certain salary.
As far as your professional advancement or raises are concerned,
very often even if you do a good job, if you are not politically reliable,
still someone who is mediocre professionally but better off politically,
considered more reliable, gets a better and supervisory position, which
is also better pay.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How do they know if you politically reliable?
Miss FLTDR. Practically from the time you go to school you have your
personal record. Things such as little remarks against the regime are
collected and put down about You, and practically at all key points of
your life this record is read by the people, by the communist commit-
tees who do the decisionmaking. If there is anything going against you,
any careless sentence, any implication that you are dissatisfied with the
regime, that you do not like communism, that you have democratic
tendencies, that you criticize, you are made very aware of it.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Does a worker have a choice to engage in conversa-
tion with regard to wage and pri(-.e demands?
Miss FLIDR. No. This practically does not exist. As a matter of fact,
you are not only not permitted to speak or discuss your wages, you
are not even permitted to change your jobs. What I will say will sound
confusing. I try to be as brief and as concise as I can.
Let's say you work in one town in one profession and you want to
move to another town. Now what happens? Basically you need two
things : a job in another town and an apartment in another town. Let's
say you decide, first, you go to look for an apartment. You come to the
national committee run by the communists in that town and you say,
"I would like an apartment." They tell you first you have to have the
job here. So you try to look for a job and they tell you first you have
to have an apartment here. Unless you are a resident, you cannot get
a job.
Therefore, what avenue is opened to you in such a case? If you want
to change jobs or move into another city, it is only to do it through
communist channels. You have to apply with your supervisors, with
the communist committee at your Job, and you have to ask to be
officially transferred. If you are officially transferred through these
channels, then you can try to exchange your apartment or to apply
and wait 15, 20 years to get an apartment in that other city. If you don't
do that, you practically have to stay where you are..
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are unions permitted? Does the union representation
help you in any way ?
Miss FLmx. Unions are practically nominal, absolutely without any
power whatsoever. Their function has been reduced maybe to dis-
tribute awards, 2 or 3 weeks in spas or in resorts as a special award to
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good workers. But that is about it. They do not help you with any pro-
fessional grievances.
It is no institution to appeal to. Everybody is forced to join; nobody
does it voluntarily. The purpose is that you are formally enrolled so
that it looks good in our communist statistics and that you pay your
membership dues. It cannot help you with anything, and very often
the unions are run by party members and you can't expect any objec-
tive decision from these people anyhow.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What is the electoral process in Czechoslovakia? Do
you have elections?
Miss FLIDR. We do have elections, but it is definitely not a free elec-
tion. What happens is you are presented with the nominees on the
ballot. Now you do not know anything about them. There aren't any
newspaper articles, nobody is permitted to stand up and attack that
nominee, say, "I have objections against him for this and this reason."
That is not permitted, that does not exist. It can't happen through
any channel. Now you get that ballot and you do not know anything
about these people. You are totally unfamiliar with their background
except that you know and you can take it for granted that they are
good communists and that they were very carefully selected.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What is the public reaction to this, the workingman
on the street, what is his reaction?
Miss FLIDR. Well, everybody's reaction is that you are scared. You
do not dare to do anything. You simply just cross that little box and
you know even if you would not-first of all, you are afraid not to do
that. Then you know even if you would not, nothing would change.
That person still would be elected and the whole election is practically
a mock election. It is not a free election.
As a matter of fact, in many cases the election is so-called manifesta-
tion election. You check the boxes in front of everyone else, and if you
wish to go behind the curtain, you can. But you are afraid to go be-
hind the curtain because that would imply that you are going to vote
against the candidates presented to you and that is a very bad thing
to do.
-N/Ir. SciiuLTZ. Miss Flidr, as a student who grew up in Czechoslo-
vakia and as a teacher who is now a resident of the United States, what
is your thinking now as to the communist movement and its interna-
tional aspect? In other words, what are its aims and what did you learn
to be the goals of international communism?
Miss FLII3it. First of all, it would be an absolute dependency of all
communist countries on the Soviet Union. This dependency would
show in economic terms. We would have to sell our goods with loss to
the communist Russia rather than to sell them at a free market.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Could you give us an example of that?
Miss FLmr. For example, what I read in our newspapers was very
revealing. It is a little question. Although we have a very strict cen-
sorship, if you do not attack the basic communist doctrines, if you
just bring up a little question and it is a concrete question, it can
slip in.
A young engineer asked, lie said, "We are buying crude oil from
Soviet Russia and we pay them $20 for a unit of crude oil, and yet,
when they sell it to the West, I recently learned that the West is pay-
ing them $10 for the same amount of the same quality crude oil. How
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come?" The editorial answer was, "You were wrong only in one point.
We don't pay $20. We pay $21.50." And there was no explanation.
Now this might be a little trivial example, but it is a concrete example.
These things do happen frequently.
Before any major decision, whether political or educational or an
economic one, is made, it is made for us in Moscow and then just
executed in the country. I would say that the communists are defi-
nitely trying to expand their world influence and world power, and
one, of course, very illustrative example of how to hold their domina-
tion was Hungary in 1956.
I feel that in terms of world expansion of communism, the com-
munists are not going to stop in front of anything, in front of the
most brutal and deplorable step, as they have proved it so many times
in the past. And that would be what I feel about it.
I spent my life there, and the means which they employ are very
brutal and very effective and very drastic.
Mr. SCEIULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
(At this point Mr. Pepper left the hearing room.)
The CHAIRMAN. What was the year you left Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLmR. It was 5 years ago. That means in 1965.
The CHAIRMAN. When did you come to the United States?
Miss FLIDR. I came to the United States approximately 5 months
later.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your occupation in this country ?
Miss FLIDR. I teach. I went to school here, I got my master's degree
in special education of the deaf, and I teach deaf children in New
York.
The CHAIRMAN. In a deaf school?
Miss FLIDR. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. What did you teach in Czechoslovakia, what grades
did you teach there?
Miss FLIDR. I taught Czech and Russian languages and literature,
and it was from, I suppose, sixth to ninth grades.
The CHAIRMAN. Now you said that a school teacher in Czechoslova-
kia, as a practical matter, could not attend the church of his choice.
Were there penalties involved, and what penalties were involved?
Miss FLmx. Yes, it started before you became a teacher, while you
were still in training. In my own personal experience there was a girl
in our class who played organ in the church. She played organ in the
church. It was a matter of music rather than a matter of faith. She
was a Catholic, but still she did go there just to play and suddenly
disappeared from our class. She was not permitted to continue with
her teaching education, teaching preparation.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you find out what happened to her?
Miss FLIDR. No. She was just asked to leave the classes. That was
about it. Well, forced, that is. There wasn't any other penalty as far
I know, but this is drastic enough.
The CIIAIrnrAN. You mean she was removed from her duties as a
teacher?
Miss FLIDR. She was not permitted to continue attending the uni-
versity where she was preparing to become a teacher.
The CHAIRMAN. So she was not a teacher, she was a student?
Miss FLIDR. She was studying to become a teacher. Then if you,
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as a school teacher, should go to church or believe in God, the penalty
would be either a sort of like disciplinary procedure with you. You
would be called and you would be asked not to do it again and, should
you choose not to obey, then the penalty would be your being trans-
ferred to some small village somewhere in the mountains where you
could not badly influence young souls of our children.
The CHAIRMAN. Now you stated you joined one of the communist
youth organizations. Did you become a full-fledged member of the
Communist Party in Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. No, this was a youth organization.
The CHAIRMAN. How far away were you from becoming a member?
Miss FLIDR. Very fax away, let me put it this way. We have 14
millions of Czechs. We were for 20 years under an absolute commu-
nist dictatorship. As I said, and I hope partly got across, the mem-
bershi.p in the party has great numbers of professional, economic,
material advantages. Yet, out of 14 millions of Czechs we have only
one and a half million of members of the Communist Party.
Now practically I cannot give any statistics now, but I can speak
from my own personal experience. At the school while I went to
school, while I taught school, there was a hundred percent member-
ship in all of these youth organizations because if you did not join,
you just could not study. You could forget all of your plans for your
life, even those limited `plans which you can make in a communist
country.
The CHAIRMAN. I am sure there were great monetary benefits with
only approximately a million and a half out of 14 million population
being members of the Communist Party, and this in and of itself
would serve as an encouragement for people to become members of
the Communist Party?
Miss FLmr. Well, naturally being a communist, as I mentioned
before, even if you were professionally not quite up to the standards,
if You were politically reliable, still you would get a key position and
with that would go a much better financial reward.
The CHAIRMAN. Would you say it is very difficult to become a full
member in good standing of the Communist Party in Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLIDR. I would say it depends pretty much also on your family
background, not only on yourself. If your parents had any private
business of their own before the communists took over, you were
practically sort,of in a way branded for life. I think it does practically
exclude you from becoming a member, nowadays, of the party.
The CHAIRMAN. It is much easier, then, for a child of parents who
are communists to become a member in good standing?
Miss FLIDR. Yes, definitely for such a child from such a family it is
almost a matter of fact, should he or she have such a desire.
The CHAIRMAN. I am very interested in your testimony in regard
to the exchange rate and the desire of the Czechoslovakian Govern-
ment to obtain dollars. I know that several people of Czech descent in
this country send dollars to relatives in Czechoslovakia and I was
talking to one such person the other day, who periodically sends
money to some of her relatives.
I was curious as to how the recipient of the dollars handled the ex-
change. Now I am sure that in most cases they will convert those dol-
lars to korunas in order to spend them in Czechoslovakia, rather
than going to the Western stores to spend the money.
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Miss FLiDR. I would say rather opposite.
The CHAIRMAN. Most of the dollars are spent in the Western stores
for Western goods?
Miss FLIDR. Yes, they are. Also, here we are coming back to the black
market. I know from my own personal experience if you wanted any
good present for Christmas or anything like that, you would try to
buy these korunas, "tuzak" korunas, from anybody who would get
them.
Now if a person is getting dollars from America and turns them
into Czech currency and they get practically 14 korunas for $1, why
would they do it?
The CHAIRMAN. Is that what you would get?
Miss FLIDR. It is opposite from what you think. If you get the
money, you get the same amount which the tourist gets. It does not
exist now because you cannot travel, but during Mr. Dubeek's time you
were permitted to travel, and when you were in need of dollars for
foreign travel, you had to pay 35 to get one of them.
The CHAIRMAN. If you received that money, you could go to the
black market?
Miss FLIDIi. Exactly ; that is the point I was driving at.
The CHAIRMAN. How much?
Miss FLIDR. When I was in Czechoslovakia, what I knew we paid at
the black market for $1 was approximately 45 korunas. Lately, with so
many people escaping, I recently talked to a young lady who came
from Czechoslovakia, and she said that the latest prices for dollars-I
mean for real dollars, not for Tusaks korunas---were as much as 90
korunas per $1, because people were trying to accumulate dollars if
they wanted to escape.
The CHAIRMAN. Now this person was sending cash and then she
would follow it up later on with inquiries to the recipient as to whether
the cash was actually received?
Miss FLIDR. They would not get the cash. They would not get Amer-
ican dollars. They would either get korunas or "tuzak" korunas.
The CHAIRMAN. But this person was sending dollars over, not send-
ing it in the form of a check or anything like that. Was there some con-
cern of the person going to the black market that the authorities might
check the mail, which check would indicate how many dollars they were
getting?
Miss FLmr.. That is a very interesting comment. I can only describe
my personal experience. You see, there are no statistics available what
happens along that line. That is one of the very typical features of
communist propaganda. They will not put in the newspapers statistics
showing any dissatisfaction or anything, you know, bad for the
regime.
The CHAIRMAN. You consider that the mail is secure, or is it some-
times opened?
Miss FLIDR. I think it is definitely sometimes opened. I made an
experiment. I sent a couple of times a couple of bank notes of American
dollars in a very well-wrapped envelope, and a couple of times it
has gotten through without any official mark on it. But once it hap-
pened that it had a stamp, an official stamp on it which said, "You are
asked to exchange this money within"-I don't know what period of
time-"at the nearest state bank." So obviously there is an occasional
check.
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The CI3AIRMTA.N. And apparently the Czechoslovakian Government is
trying to keep the recipients from exchanging the money on the black
market, which, of course, would be a better deal for them.
Do you have any questions, Mr. Stokes?
Mr. STOKES. I have just one or two, Mr. Chairman.
Miss Flidr, you mentioned housing in Czechoslovakia. Let me pursue
that just a little bit with you. Now do they have such as we have here
in America, different levels of values of housing, let's say, as we have a
home for $10,000, we have a home for $20,000, one for $30,000, one for
$50,000. Do they have various levels of housing like that?
Miss FLIDR. There are various levels, but these are mostly remnants
from what is called in our country capitalistic society. In other words,,
nowadays people do not build their own homes; they could not afford
it. It is much too expensive. It is very infrequent and it happens mostly
like in the villages, where the farmers build little homes, little houses.
But practically to build a home or house in, you know, a city or
residential area, you do not do it as a private person. As far as build-
ing of modern housing, your only way how you can get an apartment
is to apply and wait, as I said, about 15, 20 years to get an apartment,
or the government, the state, would let you buy a cooperative apart-
ment. Then you wait for about 5 years, you pay an exorbitant amount
of money, and then you get an apartment. Again it is a little apart-
ment, one room for one person. If it has above a certain square yard-
age, you have to pay anything in excess of that.
Mr. STOKES. You mentioned having to pay an exorbitant amount of
money. How would n person acquire an exorbitant amount of money?
Miss FLiva. It is incredible. You simply do it by the fact that, al-
though you might have 'a small child or two who do need your wife's
full-time care, you send her to work. You save, you eat more potatoes,
less meat, because meat is very expensive. Instead of buying a piece of
fruit for your wife or yourself or your children, you give that fruit
only to your children. That is haw you try to get that money.
1V Ir. STOKES. Now, in your cities, do they have slum conditions ?
Miss FLIDR. If I describe you my last apartment which I had, any
slum here is in a more decent shape and, living on welfare, I could fix
it more decently than I was able to fix my Czech apartment in Prague
before I left.
My mother and I had what you would term two and 'a half rooms.
We had no hot water. The 'water was in the corridor. We had one
common lavatory, no bathroom with a bathtub available to us at any
time. We had practically to take showers with the friends.
But we could use the lavatory in the lobby, common to all the peo-
ple. Now we were trying to renovate it and practically every koruna.
which we could save was spent on renovating the apartment. For that
it was not only very expensive, but for whatever you did you needed
a special permission of the committee, of the building committee of
that district. There was a lot of wasting and red tape involved in that,
too.
I felt like Alice in Wonderland when I came here and I realized
how very little you pay for basic things, such as paint and little things
which you need for a household. This in Czechoslovakia is absolutely
incredibly expensive. I remember we were trying to build a new door,
just a new folding door, two-part folding door to divide two of our
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-rooms, and I paid one and a half months of my salary for a simple.
installation. There was a hole there. They installed two wing doors
and I paid that just to have it installed.
Mr. STOKES. You mentioned welfare a few moments ago. Do they
have a welfare program?
Miss FLIDR. It works this way in Czechoslovakia. If you are healthy,
you are not permitted not to work. Now, in other words, if you are a
man and you decide not to work because you might be fired or because
you cannot find a job according to your qualifications, you do not go
on any sort of welfare. You have to find a job and if that job is under
your qualifications, too bad. If a man does not work and he is healthy,
he is u parasite of the society and he goes to prison. If I may put in one
little personal comment, that is one of the very few things which I
liked about communism.
Mr. STOKES. I would deem from that you probably do not have any
unemployment in that country, do you?
Miss FLIDR. No. Even if people could not work according to their
qualifications or talents, there would still be other work found for
them. This would go for a man. Men do have to work. Otherwise,
really they are parasites. It is unheard of for a man who would not
work unless he is very sick.
Then you do have a sort of welfare. You do get a part of your
salary and free medical care.
Mr. STOKES. Let me ask you this : Is there anything such as hunger
that exists in that country; would you say that?
Miss FLIDR. It is not a hunger, but it is a constant, I would say,
quarter hunger or half hunger, if you can draw such a distinction.
I have a couple of children from underprivileged families in my class
at school where I teach now and if I look at the lunches which they
bring in their little lunch boxes to school, it is so fantastic, the quan-
tity and the quality. It is unheard of in Czechoslovakia. So while
there is no hunger, there is certainly, you know, you just cannot afford
very decent food. You do not have hunger.
Mr. STOKES. I see. Thank you, Miss Flidr.
The CHAIRMAN. Miss Flidr, I am personally acquainted with a
Protestant minister in Prague. Of course, he is Davin a very rough
time of it now. The only members of his church are middle-aged people
and elderly people. There are no young in the services whatsoever.
When the communists took over in Czechoslovakia, he owned a
small cottage in the country and, of course, that was confiscated. He
experienced what you related. I don't know how many rooms were in
the house but it was deemed too large for him and his wife. All of the
children were gone. I think most of the children have come to this coun-
try or at least have gotten out of Czechoslovakia. People were moved
into his house. But my question is this: Does this only apply to non-
communist people ? How about. the communists ? I am sure that a
higher party official gets more than one room per family.
Miss FLIOR. They get definitely apartments of better quality. To be
perfectly frank, Mr. Chairman, I can't speak about quantity because
these things which you can freely criticize here., like personal life of
a leader of your country, a political leader of your country, you are
not permitted to criticize in any communist country. You do not get
any evidence.
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If I were now in Czechoslovakia and I wanted to know how many
rooms-I don't know how many the district party leader has-there
would be no way to find out. I could not really say.
I know quite for sure one thing from my own personal experience,
that there was an attempt to move us out of the first good apartment
which we had and move us into a bad apartment and give our good
apartment to somebody who was very prominent in the party. I am
not sure about the quantity. I am sure, though, about the better quality.
The CIIAIRMAN. Were you given the reason why they were requiring
you to move?
Miss FLIDR. The reason was that, when we lived in that apartment,
he had more children than we did. He lived in a smaller apartment
than we did. So while we did not have an excessive apartment at that
time, still, because he was a prominent party member, they would
have moved us out of our apartment, and it cost us sort of a lot of
complaining and appealing, and, you know, trying to find friends
around to stay in our apartment.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you say your mother was also a teacher?
Miss FLIDR. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. We appreciate your testi-
mony.
Mr. Counsel, do you have any further questions?
Mr. ScHULTZ. With your permission, I might ask one final question.
Miss Flidr, since we do have a right to criticize in this country,
what would be your criticism of the United States?
Miss FLIDR. It will sound paradoxical. I am not sure it will sound
popular and it will be a little strange coming from the mouth of a
person who left a totalitarian dictatorship, coming to seek freedom, if
I would say I feel in this country the authorities should have more
power and more authority and more respect than they are having
right now. I feel that while enough freedom is certainly a wonderful
thing, when it borders with almost anarchy, there should be some
curbs.
I have felt very strongly on two issues. One was the student dis-
orders. I felt that while students here get from their families and
father, freedom and security and a right to a good education, if they
seek more, if they seek utopia, fine, but they should not seek it vio-
lently and showing vandalism. There are certainly other more con-
structive ways. So I felt that more should be done and less should be
permitted.
I also felt that such authorities as, for example, police should have
more power and should be perhaps less attacked, because I would not
dare to have a son of my own become a policeman in this country.
I would consider it much too dangerous.
The CHAIRMAN. I have one more question. What is the age of en-
franchisement, the age for voting in Czechoslovakia?
Miss FLTR. At my time it was 21.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you vote in any of the elections?
Miss FLIDR. No, I just passed that age. I was in the meantime
before we left and I did not get to the elections, but my mother voted
very many times, of course, naturally, and so did my father.
The CHAIRMAN. Were there any opposition candidates that were
filed in any of the elections?
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Miss FLIDR. No, it was not even done nominally. It was not even
done for pretense. That is the dictatorship.
The CHHAIRMAN. You don't have the opportunity to vote for or
against the party?
Miss FLIDR. No, absolutely not. You would expect that at least for
a pretense purpose there would be some opposing candidates or there
should be at least something done just to keep the Constitution, just
to keep the pretense, just to put the show on, but there was none.
The CHAIRMAN. You only voted for or against the one party candi-
date, the one candidate?
Miss FLIDR. That's right.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Again we appreciate your
testimony.
Call the next witness, please.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Emilio C. Callejo.
The CHAIRMAN. I understand, Mr. Counsel, that Mr. Callejo will
be accompanied by Dr. Portell-Vila. Will. you please be seated, Dr.
Portell-Vila.
First of all, Dr. Portell, I think I should ask you some questions
about your qualifications as an interpreter, since Mr. Callejo will be
speaking through you. Have you had experience interpreting Spanish
to English and English to Spanish previously?
Dr. PORTELL-VILA. I have done that several times and I once worked
for the Foreign Policy Association as a translator and put into Spanish
the book Problems of the New Cuba. I have also worked at times in
international conferences as a translator, Spanish to English and
vice versa.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Portell-Vila. First, I
will have to administer a special oath to you. Will you please stand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to
translate before this committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, to the best of your knowledge, so help
you God?
Dr. PORTELL-~T
V H.A. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Callejo, do you solemnly swear that you will
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God? Ctranslated through Dr. Portell-Vila]
Mr. CALLEJO. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF EMILIO C. CALLEJO, AS INTERPRETED BY
DR. PORTELL-VILA
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Callejo, would you state your full name and
address?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. Emilio Callejo, 1437 South 28th Street, Arling-
ton, Virginia.
Mr. ScHuLTZ. Mr. Callejo, did you, with the assistance of Dr. Per-
tell-Vila, prepare a narrative type statement for presentation here
this morning with regard to your background and immediate trip to
the United States?
Mr. PoRTELL-VILA. Yes, he did.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Do you have that statement in front of you, Dr.
Portell ?
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Mr. Poirri a -Vim. Yes, I do have it here.
Mr. ScriuLTz. Mr. Chairman, with your permission and in the in-
terest of time, I would like permission for Dr. Portell-Vila to read
this narrative statement which they prepared together, a narrative
statement of Mr. Callejo's background and leading up to his trip to
the United States, his, defection to the United States.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed. I think that would facilitate the proceed-
ings.
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. Emilio C. Callejjo was born in Barcelona, Spain,
to a family which owned property in Cuba. He is 40 years old, married,
and his wife is Cuban born. They have a daughter 7 years old.
In 1945 he went to live in Havana, Cuba, and in 1953 became a
Cuban citizen. He studied accountancy at the Professional School of
Commerce in Havana and, from 1955 to 1960, worked for Docal Con-
struction Co., a firm of contractors engaged in a number of public
works. In 1960, with a better-paid job, Mr. Callejo went to work for
Kiko-Plastics, Inc., an industrial concern in the plastics industry.
Kiko-Plastics was taken over by Castro in 1962. Mr. Callejo
resented the working conditions and the general situation imposed on
the country by the communists, but was afraid of reprisals if he asked
for a permit to leave the country. The house he owned at Marianao,
a Havana suburb, had been seized by Castro as was all other private
property in Cuba.
In 1965, when hundreds of small boats and yachts were transport-
ing Cubans to Florida, Castro declared that anybody who wanted to
leave the country was free to do so by applying for a permit to leave.
Mr. Callejo discussed the situation with his wife and decided to tell
the government that they wanted to leave. He was immediately fired
from his job in reprisal.
Relatives in the United States urged him to come by way of the
"Freedom Flights" (Varadero Beach to Miami), but this took time.
The only job he could get was to drive the car of a physician in Havana
until new regulations by Castro affecting those who wanted to leave
Cuba reached him.
In order to repay the government for what Cuba was supposed to
have done for the Callej o family, he had to work as a fieldhand in agri-
cultural jobs. Leaving his family in Havana, he first cut sugarcane at
the "Josefita" sugar mill near Palos, some 35 miles southeast of
Havana.
After nearly 1 year there, because of his training in accountancy,
they sent him to work with the construction crews building dams at
Jimaguayu and Santa Cruz, Camaguey Province, some 350 miles from
Havana. Those who wanted to leave Cuba lived in huts and barracks
and engaged in forced labor, away from their families. Food was
scarce and bad. There was no proper hygiene and armed guards were
always in evidence.
The working day consisted of 10 hours, 7 days a week. Medical
care was poor, at best. Constant indoctrination over the radio and in
political meetings was the order of the day, and there were no religious
services or opportunities for recreation. An atmosphere of fear per-
vaded the daily life of the virtual prison camp. There were constant
reminders of the worker being a "gusano" or "worm," the name applied
to those who did not accept communism under Castro.
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From the idams Mr. Callejo was transferred to sugarcane cutting
again, briefly at Esmeraldas, and then at the "Senado" sugar mill,
northern Camaguey, near Nuevitas, where he spent the longest period
of his punishment for leaving Cuba.
He explains : "I was considered, as were thousands and thousands of
Cubans trying to leave, to owe the communist state my labor. A ledger
listed how many thousands of arrobas (an arroba equals 25 pounds) we
owed. The minimum daily quota was 99 arrobas. Very rarely could I
do it, so I was in arrears, showing a deficit month after month. When in
March 1970 the permit to leave reached the camp, several of my fellow
prisoners surreptitiously pitched in, adding to my pile of cane until I
finally paid my `debt' to Castro with such forced labor."
Mr. cHULTZ. Mr. Callejo, do you recognize this paper as the state-
ment which both of you prepared?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. As far as he knows English, that is what he did.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. Would you ask Mr. Callejo, please, how wages and
prices are set in Cuba, how he was paid for cutting sugarcane so that
he could come to the United States?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that they were paid for what they were
doing with their job, that theoretically it was $3.20 in agricultural
work. They paid more in other things, but cutting sugarcane, $3.20.
But that out of that money he had to pay the government 75 cents a
day for food and there were days in which he was unable to reach
what they called the goal, the assignment. He could not fulfill the as-
signment, so there were days in which he had only cents left to comply
with what he was supposed to have for eating.
Mr. SCHULTZ, Mr. Callejo, were you able to support your family on
what you earned?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. Friends and relatives were supporting the family
while he was working in agriculture, and that was the only way they
could accomplish that because he was not earning enough for himself
and for the family.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What were the quantity and quality of consumer goods
in Cuba, Mr. Callejo?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that they are entitled to have one-fourth
of a pound of bread a day, but as to milk,, fresh milk only to children
under 7 years of age, and from 7 to 14 years of age and people after
05 years of age they could have evaporated milk; the children from 7
to 14 years of age., six cans of condensed milk a month. As to meat, one-
fourth of a Hound a week in Havana, because outside of Havana they
are supposed to eat less meat.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Why are they supposed to eat less meat outside of
Havana?
Mr. PoRTELL. VILA. He savs that, first, it is a problem of distribution.
Havana being a big city, it is possible to distribute meat there more
efficiently, and when noinrr into the country the situation is by far
different. Also they take into consideration that people living in the
rural districts have a chance to forage around and get something
else to com.nlete their diet.
Mr. ScT--fm T7. Mr. Callejo, as a CPA who worked in Havana prior to
the Castro regime, what changes did you see in the livinn conditions
and employment. ropclition,. an'a who controlled these changes?
(At this point Mr. Stokes left the hearing room.)
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Mr. PoRTELL-VILA. He says that theoretically the salaries have re-
mained the same one they had before the advent of communism, but,
that in practice the situation is by far different because of difficulties
to acquire, to purchase what they need. The purchasing power of the
people has gone down because money doesn't have the same value
applied to what they can get to sell to the people, and everything is.
sold by the state.
Therefore, they find that they cannot buy goods with a, low price be-
cause they are controlled by the. government, so they had to be going not
to buy things which are more expensive. Therefore, that affects the
possibility to be able to cover all of the, expenses. of a household.
Mr. SCI3ULTZ. Mr. Callejo, did you have any supervisors in either
your work as a CPA or in the cane fields earning your way over here-
did you have any supervisors who were Russians?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. The direct people controlling the work were
Cubans and he never had any Russians directing him in his work.
Mr. ScIIULTz. Were these Cubans who were his supervisors members
of the Communist Party, and was this a prerequisite?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that it was not a requisite that they had
to be members of the Communist Party, although most of them were,
and that usually they had military men controlling them, and when
they were civilians, they were civilians belonging to the militia and
had a uniform, too, and that these people could belong to the Com-
munist Party and at times didn't belong to it, but that they were the
ones in charge.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Were there any disadvantages in not belonging to the
Communist Party? Would he himself have been better off had he
joined the Communist Party?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that what they have there is a commu-
nist state in which all the people controlling and ruling everything,
the bigwigs, the important people have to be members of the Com-
munist Party ; that in his case if he had belonged to the Communist
Party, then he should have had a better time in these last years.
The fact that he chose to leave Cuba and not to join the party, that
makes him liable to all these hard times he was supposed to have, and
that is the case of anybody who is trying to do the same thing. He
did leave Cuba.
Mr. ScHIULTZ. Senor Callejo, would you comment for us on the
freedom of elections, employment, and education.
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that there are no elections in Cuba along
political lines. The only way you can find something resembling an
election is in the labor unions, but that even those they have a candidate
who had the blessings from the party, and that is the one who has to
be chosen to be leader in the unions.
As to freedom in the schools, he says there is none because the
teachers are all the time watched by the party to find out what they
are teaching in school and that it is more important that political
indoctrination be made, that they are judged for the effectiveness with
which they can push forward the cult of Fidel Castro or anything
belonging to the Cuban revolution and that is the paramount job of
a teacher. If he wants to be safe, that is what he has to do because he
is all the time watched by those who are supervising the work.
Mr. SchIIILTz. Senor Callejo, when did you come to the United
States?
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Mr. PORTELL-VILA. March 18, 1970.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Callejo, would you have any reflection on Amer-
ican citizens who came to Cuba to cut sugarcane
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that these people are totally mistaken
in what they are doing and in what they are supposed to learn by go-
ing to Cuba because they are subjected to indoctrination. They are
very well treated, they are having everything that Cubans cannot
have, and in this way they come back thinking that the situation is by
far different from what it really is. That they are, in fact, socialist
tourists of communist Cuba, all expenses paid, touring the country,
even the type of work they have to do is by far less than what other
people are supposed to be doing at the same time.
The CHAIRMAN. At that point, Mr. Counsel, Mr. Callejo, were any
of the Venceremos Brigade assigned to the camp where you were?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that they were all the time kept apart
from these groups coming from abroad, because they were the people
who wanted to migrate. Because they were the people who wanted to
emigrate, they were in a special low category in which they were not
going to mix with these other people, that personally he was never
working in any place where they were nearby.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed Counsel.
Mr. SCHULTz. Senor Callejo, is criticism of the Cuban Government
permitted?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that there is not the slightest possibility
of airing any type of criticism of the government, and specifically he
wants to point out that all communication media, radio, television,
newspapers, and so on, are controlled by the government. Even if any-
body wanted to risk his life by attempting any criticism, he was not
going to have a chance to make it because he was not going to have
access to the mike or to the camera or to the printed press.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Senor Callejo, is there any dissent by students, college
students, any demonstrations?
Mr. PORTE, LL-VILA. He says that college and university students are
somewhat integrated into the system, because otherwise they are not
allowed to be involved in college. and university, so that this is a requi-
site, for them to be considered loyal to the government to enter college
or the university. And therefore those people will work with the gov-
ernment no matter what they think in private.
But that among the present university and high school students there
is a tremendous amount of dissatisfaction, not only because of the po-
litical aspect of the indoctrination, and so on, but also because 3 years
ago they were told that they had to make a contribution to the govern-
ment of 30 working days, that this was going to be just once. They
went there and worked 30 days. Then the period was extended to 45
days, and now they have been working 6 months at the same time that
they are supposed to be studying for university and high school.
They have announced with this coming school year that 9 months of
the year they would have to be in the fields working and learning what
they can in their spare time.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Senor Callejo, what is the penalty for dissent, and is it
publicly stated?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that it all depends upon the degree of
dissent, that there is a type of dissent that is made by going to the
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paredon, because it is considered to be dangerous to the state. Then
there are other types for which they will impose years in jail, other
cases in which they would impose years of forced labor in state farms.
Those are the three. He said there are three degrees and the most
serious offense will call for shooting wall or paredon, and then the
others would be jail terms and forced labor in the state farms.
The CHAIRMAN. Senor Callejo, to what extent is private ownership
of real estate or personal property permitted ?
Mr. PowTnLL-VILA. He said that there is no real estate property
in Cuba of any type, that even if you were living in what was your
house, your home, you cannot leave that place without asking for a,
permit because that doesn't belong to you any more. It belongs to the!
state. As to a car, you can buy a car. Then you are entitled to have a
car, but nothing as to real estate.
Mr. ScfiuLTZ. Senor Callejo, is there a problem with the black
market?
Mr. PoriTELL-VILA. Ile says that there are three main sources for
operations in the black market. There are the people who are working
in the state stores and shops and that they pilfer whatever they can
so that they make a small robbery and they take this home and then
they look around for clients to whom they can resell what they have:
been getting. That is widespread.
Then there are the people who succeeded, when they got an authori-
zation card, to put more people into the authorization card than they
actually have. And sometimes people, as in his case have left the
country and they can't appear. Those people are receiving more food
or more clothes or more shoes than they really were entitled to, so they
have a surplus and then they go around reselling these to other people.
But the more serious cases are the people who belong to the militia.
and the armed forces. Those are influential people and also the high
bureaucracy of the regime because those people are influential, and'
because they are influential they get things that the general people
cannot have and, therefore, from these people they can get many other
things which usually are not obtainable. But these people have extra.
May I ask him something in connection with the black market?
About the diplomats accredited there, he says that some of them
work in the black market, some of them because they want to make.
money and some of them because of pity for the conditions of the peo
ple, and that he himself has benefited in several cases from these diplo-
mats who were able to procure something, to get something for them,.
his family, because they wanted to help. But in certain cases there
is selling done,'too.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Senor Callejo, is there freedom of religion and does
membership in a church preclude Communist Party membership?
Mr. PoizT.i?;LL-VILA. He says that the communists cannot have reli-
gious belief and that a man who goes to church and the party know&
about that, he will be immediately expelled from the party, that there
is complete incompatibility between being a member of the church
and being a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. SciluLTZ. Senor Callejo, is there a constitution and what does
the Constitution of Cuba provide in the way of human rights for the
individual?
Mr. PoRTTLL-VILA. He, says that the Constitution of 194.0 has been
totally abolished and there is just one law in Cuba which reaches every--
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where, and that is what Fidel Castro will order. That is the only law
which is in operation.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Senor Callejo, is there a secret police and how does
it function?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that the best organized, the thoroughly
organized group of the police is a G-2, which opperates, supported
by informers, in such a way that they have a complete dossier of any-
body appearing before the G-2, and that they are masters in psycho-
logical torture. They will not go down to the meeting most of the time.
What they can do is put a person at a table and have a number of
floodlights on his face for hours. He cannot see who is questioning him.
The person is on the other side of the table. This person will be review-
ing for him everything he or she has done for years because they have
all the information in their possession. Then they will be questioning
and questioning and the person will refuse to answer and they will
insist and after being there 1 hour, there will be a recess and another
one will come with fresh questioning and with more direct confronta-
tion. And that will last 1 day and will follow with another day until
the person will break down and will admit whatever they want be-
,cause he wants to get rid of that situation in which he has been for
some time.
Mr. SGHULTZ. Senor Callejo, did you ever experience this yourself?
Mfr. PORTELL-VILA. He says that he was never in the hands of the
G-2 because he was completely apart from politics, but that some
people he knows have told him about what they went through at the
hands of the G-2.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Senor Callejo, is a Cuban who is charged -with ,% crime
afforded a speedy trial and on whom does the burden of proof fall?
Mr. PORTELI,-VILA. He says that for small offenses there is something
they call criminal local, which is people in the neighborhood without
any legal training will hold a sort of kangaroo court to judge somebody
who had said something and was in a fight, for instance. That person
who was in a fight will appear before the local court in the street. They
would conduct it in the street. Then this person would be subjected to
a complete analysis given by the informers in the block about every-
thing he has done in his life so as to expose him as a person who has to
be punished. This is in the case of this irregular type of court.
Then there is a revolutionary court. The revolutionary court begins
with some more regular rules of the game and then they have to appear
there and they can listen to the accusation. They can put up a state-
ment about their guiltiness or their innocence, but all the time it will
be the court which will decide if what he alleges was acceptable or
nonacceptable, if he was right or guilty, and so on, and there would
not be any chance.
He says that there are lawyers appearing for the defense in these
cases, but they are appointed by the court and usually these lawyers
appointed by the court are all the time playing the game the court
has assigned to them. And therefore there is not a chance for anybody
to have a real lawyer to defend his case.
At times they begin by saying something nice about the person
brought before the trial and they end it by joining the prosecutor and
saying that the person has to be punished. So there is not a chance for
justice.
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Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I have one final question.
Senor Callejo, is there any accountability on the part of the govern-
ment to the individual? Does public opinion control or force changes
in the Cuban Government?
Mr. PoRTELL-VILA. He says that if the public opinion had any bear-
ings on the situation in Cuba, Castro was not going to be in power,
that Castro has organized a type of consultation of public opinion at
the rallies that from time to time he holds. These rallies are prepared
beforehand very carefully, so there will be a hard-core group of people
close to the rostrum and when he puts up a question and says, "Do you
agree?" all of those people will agree with him. And if someone far
away would say he was not in agreement, he was going to have a terrible
time, so nobody dares to say.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Thank you. No further questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Callejo. Of course, most
of the people who live in this free society never experience living under
a totalitarian regime such as exists in Cuba and in Czechoslovakia, and
perhaps we are not in a, very good position to competently evaluate or
fully appreciate the freedom that we do have in this society.
You have lived in both and certainly you have gained 'a privilege of
living in this society by enduring considerable punishment and have
made great sacrifice. I hope, sir, that you are successful in all your good
endeavors and I wish you much happiness.
Mr. CALLEao. Thank you very much.
The CHAIRMAN. You do have your wife and child with you, do you
not?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. They are here with him.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you been able to obtain employment yet?
Mr. PORTELL-VILA. He is taking an intensive course in English at
the John Marshall School for the job he has and he is learning English
at the same time.
The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Dr. Portell-Vila, I want to thank you
for your appearance here as interpreter.
Mr. Counsel, I am a little concerned, however, about the appearance
of our record. It is my understanding that you will have other wit-
nesses throughout the course of these hearings who will be speaking
through an interpreter.
Mr. SCHULTZ. No, sir, we have no more.
The CHAIRMAN. In the event we do encounter this situation again,
either have a stenographer who can take the testimony in the language
in which it is given or set it up with the interpreter where you can
have verbatim translation. I am a little concerned about the record.
If we had a stenographer who could take the testimony in Spanish,
we would not have to worry so much about the verbatim translation.
I know this is the first time this has been done, but I do not want to
proceed in this manner again. There is too much opportunity for error.
The next time we do have a witness, make sure that we proceed in
that manner so we can have our record either in Spanish or in English
or whatever language is given verbatim.
Thank you again, gentlemen. Good luck to you.
The meeting will be adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., Tuesday, June 23, 1970, the committee
adjourned, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, June 24, 1970. )
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THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF COMMUNISM IN 1970
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 24, 1970
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY,
PUBLIC HEARING
Washington, D.C.
The Committee on Internal Security met at 10:05 a.m., pursuant
to recess, in Room 311, Cannon House Office Building, Washington,
D.C., Ilon. Richard H. Ichord, chairman, presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Richard H. Ichord of
Missouri and William J. Scherle of Iowa.
Staff members present : Donald G. Sanders, chief counsel, and Rich-
ard L. Schultz, associate chief counsel.
The'CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.
The committee meets today for the purpose of continuing to hear
testimony from refugees from behind the Iron Curtain and other
places.
Whom do you have as your next witness, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Alex Levin.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Levin, will you please come forward, sir.
It will not be necessary for Mr. Levin to speak through an
interpreter?
Mr. SCIIULTZ. No, sir; he is very articulate.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Levin, it is a pleasure to welcome you to the
committee. Will you remain standing and first be sworn, sir.
Mr. Levin, do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. LEViN. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Please be seated.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF ALEXEY VASILYEVICH LEVIN
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, would you state your full name and
address please.
Mr. LEviN. My name is Alexey Vasilyevich Levin, and I live in
New York City. That is what I can answer. I would not like to give
any accurate address because of security of my own.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, what is your place of birth?
Mr. LEVIN. MOSCOW.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. How long did you live in Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. For 38 years.
Mr. SCHULTZ. When did you come to the United States?
Mr. LEVIN. In June of 1968.
52-557-70-5 (46,57)
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Mr. ScxuLTZ. What is the extent of your education?
Mr. LEVIN. I graduated from Moscow Institute of Physical Engi-
neering in the specialty of nuclear physics.
Mr. SCII.ULTZ. Would you describe for the committee, please, the
circumstances surrounding your leaving Russia and your subsequent
defection to the United States?
Mr. LFVIN. The external circumstances are that I was permitted by
Soviet authorities to go as a tourist to Turkey. I decided not to go
back to the Soviet Union. I came to some Turkish and American au-
thorities in Turkey and asked them for political asylum in the United
States. After a while I was granted political asylum in 1968.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you describe for us how you happened to get
a trip to Turkey ?
Mr. LFvIN. I went there as a Soviet tourist, as a member of a Soviet
tourist group there for 10 days.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What were the prerequisites for you to go on this
trip?
Mr. LFVIN. Excuse me.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What did you have to do to be allowed to go on this
trip as a tourist?
Mr. LEVIN. First of all, I must have had a very clear record in the
secret police and a very good record in social life and society, as a
member of society, and then I inust have had some special permission
for going abroad. After clearance in many party meetings and so on,
I was permitted to go abroad for 10 days as a tourist.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Now were you a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. LEVIN. No, I wasn't.
Mr. ScHIULTZ. Were you a member of Komsomol?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, I have been a member of Komsomol from the age
of 14 years old to 27. And at the time of my decision to ask for politi-
cal asylum I was not a member of any Communist organization.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you describe for us what Komsomol is?
Mr. LFVIN. It is very difficult to describe. I think that Komsomol is
an organization for youth-it is like maybe Hitler-the purpose of
which is to prepare young people for membership in the Communist
Party of the Soviet Union and to unite young people for political in-
doctrination for political work and not to let young people go.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You say you joined Komsomol when you were 14 and
left it when you were 27?
Mr. LFvIN. Yes.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you have then been eligible to join the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. LEVIN. They asked me to join the Communist Party twice, but
I did not refuse openly because if you did, I would not go for abroad.
I told my party's secretary that I am not yet mature to have this re-
sponsibility to boa party member.
Mr. SciiuLTz. Now you mentioned that you had to have the party
permission to go on your trip to Turkey. Did they question the fact
that you were not a member of the party?'
Mr. LFVIN. They did. As they did in the district party meeting, why
didn't you, why aren't you a member of the. Communist Party? I told
that I am going to be a member of that party, but I would like to be
more mature to take this responsibility. It was, of course, not true,
but I didn't have any choice.
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Mr. ScHHULTZ. Were there any other checks made on you prior to
leaving on your trip for Turkey?
Mr. LENIN. There are two parallel checks when a Soviet citizen goes
for abroad. There is secret police check, which is a principal checking
of the person, and there is also called open check during hearings in
many party meetings, from the local level to the highest level, in the
regional party meetings, and so on. It doesn't matter whether you
are a member of the party or not.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, what extent of freedom is there in Russia
for travel, and how did you happen to get this trip and why Turkey,
how did it happen to be Turkey?,
Mr. LEVIN. It is very long to explain because it is very complicated
to go for abroad for a 'Soviet citizen. As all things, the traveling for
abroad, and especially to so-called capitalist countries, is planned by
the central committee of the Communist Party and trade unions and
the Department of Treasury.
They issue comparatively, say, very small quantity of permissions
to go, and those permissions are distributed throughout the Soviet
Union. My research institute, for exarnpl.e, received only two permis-
sions in a year to go for abroad into so-called capitalist countries, and
it was one permission for Syria and one permission for Turkey.
I chose permission for Turkey because it was much cheaper than
to Syria. It was only 200 ruble's, which means $200 approximately.
After you have permission, you must be cleared. But if your institute
doesn't have a "permission" at all you can't get permission from
another institute. It was supposed to be for their work.
Mr. ScIiuLTz. For how many years had you planned to leave Russia;
how long had you had this idea?
Mr. LEVIN. If you count from 1968, when I made the decision prac-
tically, I got my idea when I had been a student in the physical insti-
tute. It means that it is about for 5 years I seriously thought about
getting away from there.
Mr. Sch uLTZ. So then is it true that for 5 years you more or less
groomed yourself to have a good reputation, background, to be pre-
pared, to take advantage of a trip if you could get one?
Mr. LnvrN. That is perfectly right.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What made you decide to come to the United States;
what had been your training in school with regard to the United
States?
Mr. LnvrN. Of course, in primary school we studied American-
United States geography and economics, but economics was supposed
to be rotting in the United States and Americans, especially influential
Americans, were conceived as hating communism and the Soviet re-
gime and there was not much education on the Americans in the pri-
mary school.
In the institute there was only the political point of view on Amer
ica, which means that capitalist America wants to destroy the Soviet
Union and they are an enemy of the Soviet Government and this,
nonsense like that.
Mr. SeiruLTz. If these are the things that you learned, what made
you decide to come to the United States? Had you met people from
the U.S,?
Mr. LrvIN. Yes; I met several people from the United States, trav-
eling Americans, and I liked them very much.
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Mr. SCHULTZ. Was this permitted openly?
Mr. LEVIN. Not openly, because three times when I met Americans
in Moscow, I didn't notice my tails after the departing Americans.
But I changed three or four times taxis and buses for in any case not
to be checked in the records because it is some possibility to be tailed
to your home to have your identity after you meet foreigners, espe-
oially Americans, who were supposed to be all spies in the Soviet
Union.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Had you met a foreigner in your own home, would
there be a possibility someone would report this?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, of course. A lot of Americans in Moscow and during
the travel in Sovet Union are followed by secret policemen, and I
noticed that, and they are not very clever in following. That is why
I must be careful of that in that case. Of course, I didn't have any
affairs with them; it was only talking and sightseeing. That is all.
But nevertheless you might be careful.
Mr. Scnur.TZ. Is travel within the country permitted? Could you
change your place of employment, place of residence?
Mr. LEVIN. I could travel in the Soviet Union freely in every town
which was not closed for secret reasons, as nuclear installations, and
so on. You could travel now very freely in the Soviet Union. But to
work-for example, it is impossible to change the place of working,
for example, from Moscow to Leningrad or to Kiev, because there
is, as they call it, the logical change. You cannot be hired into
some work in another city without police permission for leaving, and
the police cannot grant you permission for leaving without work,
you see, and this is a change. It is only in special cases you can change
your work place from one town to another, a big town. Of course,
you can go to villages to work and so on.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Are unions permitted in Russia. ?
Mr. LEVIN. Unions?
Mr. Scllur,TZ. Labor unions.
Mr. LEVIN. Well, there are central labor unions; trade unions did
you mean ?
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Yes.
Mr. LEVIN. Yes. There is quite a pyramid, a hierarchy of trade
unions. There are central committees of trade unions and down to
local trade unions.
Mr. Sciiur,TZ. Now do these trade unions represent the worker and
and do they negotiate on behalf of the worker in prices, wages,
overtime?
Mr. LE VIN. Yes, in some sense they represent employees in the So-
viet Union, but in a very specific way. They distribute, for example,
passes for resort houses, free resort houses, and they arranged your
sick leaves, sick payment and sick disability permission, and they dis-
tribute travel permissions, like that. But since labor strikes in the
Soviet Union are prohibited and are very severely suppressed, they
don't have any role in raising salaries or in confronting government
on the part of workers.
Mr. ScIIULTZ.Mr. Levier, is a worker paid on the basis of his pro-
ductivity?
Mr. LEVIN. I don't think so ; no. There is some system for workers,
for laborers, if you produce more products, then are you paid more,
but the rates are rising and it is all the same.
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Mr. SCHULTZ. In other words, a worker who produces more sets
a higher standard?
Mr. LEVZN. Yes, a standard for the unit of products.
Mr. ScFIULTZ. Now does this worker that raises the standard get
rewarded?
Mr. LEVIN. He is rewarded only once or twice, and after that the
standards are higher and here he produces more, but he receives the
same. And that is why the rest of the workers are indignant about
that, most of them.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What is the quality and quantity of goods produced
in Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. I would say very poor, very bad quality. I would say
that. Sometimes it is very good, but
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Can you give us an example of the availability of any
specific commodity or item in the market that could fluctuate?
Mr. LEVIN. The Soviet Union suffers-so-called planned economics
of the Soviet Union suffer from a lot of shortages from time,, to time.
For example, in the last summer all along in the Soviet Union there
weren't matches available in the country. It wasn't because the Soviet
Union has no ability to produce matches, but one plant for matches was
closed and there were no matches. Then after a time some other product
vanished from the market and you cannot have them.
Mr. Scnuvrz. Why would they close a plant like that, say a match
plant?
Mr. LEVIN. I don't understand.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Why would they close it up? You said they closed up
a plant and there were no matches on the market. Why would they do
that?
Mr. LEVIN. Because of some kind of an anarchy principle in the
Soviet Union, because one government bureaucrat doesn't know what
another bureaucrat is saving or doing, you see, and some minister or
some high bureaucrat said, "OK, close this plant," for example, and
another who is planning matches didn't know that and the plant was
closed all right.
After that it was quite an uproar in the Soviet Union and it is very
frequent like that. ,
Mr. SCHULTZ. Is this true of other items, wearing apparel, house-
hold furniture, as well as matches?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, that's right.
Mr. ScnuLTz. What is the quality of these product-,?
Mr. LEVIN. Matches are? very good in the Soviet Union.
Mr. SCHULTZ. I will be more specific. What is the quality of the
clothing ?
Mr. LEVIN. The quality of clothing is very impersonal; it ig for the
arithmetic average of the Russian gentleman or lady. It is plump and
like a bag, very frequently, and it doesn't, well, you can feel that they
never thought about people. It is a very poor quality, not because
Russian people cannot do that, but because of the planned economy.
You see. you must fulfill the plan. It is not to make them good. You
must fulfill the plan in the units, 200,000 suits, for example, and that,
is all the director of the plant cares about. He is not concerned with
quality of product and, of course, he is helped with the monolith of
the state. You don't have a choice to buy any better products.
Mr. SCTLULTZ. Don't the people complain about this poor quality?
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Mr. Lrvzrr. Yes; there is a lot of complaints, especially when people
go in shopping. You can hear a lot of complaints.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What happens to their complaints? Can you return
the items ; can you get a better quality suit?
Mr. LEvIN. Well, the products are returned in the Soviet department
stores, for example, if one sleeve is shorter than the other. Then it will
be returned, but it can't be returned if you bought a product and you
say that I don't like the suit. Well, you are classy. That is all.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What is your observation as to the political control
of the economy, the manufacturing plants, how does politics play a
part in this?
Mr. LEVIN. In the economy ?
Mr. Scrrur,TZ. Yes; related to the manufacturing of items that we
are talking about.
Mr. LEVIN. Now the Soviet Union is penetrated with politics, with
the Communist Party politics, because party officials are the head
of planning committees, and the central committee of the Communist
Party of the Soviet Union is the leader, is supposed to be a leader,
and is the single organ who orders all the economy. The Soviet econ-
omy is politics, too, because it is planned by party high officials and it
is controlled by party high officials and the economy is responsible
before them. You cannot differentiate between economy and politics.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Is this workable?
Mr. LFVIN. Yes, it is workable, but I think it is bad workable
because the Soviet leaders plan the economy and decide what to do
on big scales. They need so-called feedback, a feedback in the economy,
because, OK, they ordered to produce the big quantity of some prod-
ucts, but they don't have immediate control of that, how the popula-
tion buys them, how do they like them, and on and on. The feedback
is absent.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Why don't they have feedback? Would this be the
same as criticism. of the government?
Mr. LEVIN. No, because of the structure of the Soviet economy. For
example, if I am Mr. Brezhnev, I order economy to make these steps,
these measures, and so on. I am feared by all around, by all officials, and
if I issue a stupid order, for example, they would not dare to tell me
that, well, it is stupid. They say, "OK, we will make this plan, Com-
rade Brezhnev." I will fulfill this plan., and it is all right and it doesn't
matter how stupid my order is.
They all make these, and it is fulfilled and that is all. They would not
dare to tell me that I did not fulfill your order. It is like the army, you
see. It is like an army in battle. The commander is not tried in the
battle. Nevertheless you must obey him, and it is the same with the
Soviet economy.
Mr. Sciiur,TZ. So the economy is based on the political direction and
it is not challenged?
Mr. LEVIN. That's right.
Mr. SCIIIILT7. What benefits do employees have in, say, well where
you worked? You worked in research. What benefits did you have
with relation to hospitalization, start with that. Did you have hospi-
t.alization provided for you?
Mr. LEvIN. Yes ; hospitalization and medical treatment in the Soviet
Union is free of charge. If you are sick, then you are calling a physi-
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cian from the hospital. This physician checks you and issues a so-called
disability, sick disability, stating that you are sick for 3 days. And if
you were sick longer, he provides this. After that, if you don't die and
you are healthy again, you come to the trade union, the local trade
union, and on disability you are paid half of your salary for the days
of your illness.
Mr. ScirnLTZ. What is the amilability of doctors? How easily
can you see a doctor?
Mr. LEVIN. There is special clinics in the Soviet Union, and there are
physicians over there, doctors, and you could be granted an appoint-
ment to him in this clinic. You are treated there free, of course, with-
out any charge.
Mr. ScziuLrz. You mention that all Russians have free hospitaliza-
tion. Is there any difference in the quality of hospitalization?
Mr. LE-VIN. There are systems, several systems of hospitals in the
Soviet Union. There are hospitals for ordinary people. There is so-
called Fourth Department of Minister of Public Health. The Fourth
Department is considered to be for Kremlin high officials, for high
party officials.
There is capitalism in these hospitals because you have your own
personal doctor. You have the best equipment and the systems there
are very liberal. But ordinary people can't be accepted there.
Mr. SczzuL:rz. Who are ordinary people?
Mr. LEVIN. Well, ordinary people like me, who are not high party
officials, who don't work in the hierarchy in ,the central committee or
the Supreme Soviet or high officials in the Kremlin. There are mili-
tary headquarters, special hospitals for high commanders.
Mr. SciiuLrz. Is this quality of this medical care different?
Mr. LEVIN. That is not a word, it is incomparable. It is, of course,
different, but it is not to that difference. It is incomparable. The cost of
treatment, the cost of food and treatment in hospitals for ordinary
people is 60 cents per day, but it is about $4 or $10 in the hospitals for
central committee and our other so-called closed hospitals and closed
clinics.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Now is the availability of this hospital tied directly
to the position or job of the Russian involved? Is the availability of
being able to go to this hospital tied directly to the job or position
that the man holds? You mentioned you were not able to go to these,
the higher officials could go to this type of hospital.
Is it directly tied to his job? Suppose lie loses his job, can he still
go to that hospital ?
Mr. LrviN. No, he doesn't. If he loses his job, for example, if he
is chief of department. in the central committee apparatus and if he
is demoted to being a head of some research institute, he loses this
permission. It is not permanent at all. It is for fitting high officials
only and you are deprived of your official villa and so on, you are
deprived of all privileges you have.
Mr. SCHurrz. We were talking about fringe benefits or benefits of
employees. Do they have any discount purchasing for employees?
Do you have any special stores where you could get a discount?
Mr. LEViN. It is the same system as with hospitals. They have
closed stores from the general public, closed department stores with
foreign clothing, only with foreign clothing, with all products. As
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people say, they are in capitalism already for those central party
committee officials.
Mr. SCHULTZ. The average workingman, then, is not allowed to
shop in this store?
Mr. LEvIN. No, of course, because there are no signs on these closed
department stores. There are no signs announcing that this is a
department store; it is closed. It is not advertised, and there are guards
there. You can't penetrate.
There are special coupons, and coupons are very cheap for high party
officials, and they are distributed in the central committee or in the
Supreme Soviet in the highest government offices. And they dont pay
money, as usual; they pay with these coupons.
Mr. SCHULTZ. The coupons are awarded by the political party; is
that it?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, that's right.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What about the housing of the workers, Mr. Levin?
Would you describe for us your house or apartment that you had in
Russia?
Mr. LEViN. I was there the chief of a scientific group and my wife
is chief engineer of the forestry, but we had only one room in the
whole apartment. We had, in the same apartment, two neighboring
families and we could not be granted any other apartment.. We could
not buy carpet for the apartment because we were supposed to have a
lot of square feet, as they call them.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are you allocated by the government so many square
feet?
Mr. LEVTN. Yes, that's right. It is allocated by municipal officers of
Moscow and of every city.
Mr. ScrruLTZ. Who owned the apartment which you live in?
Mr. LEVrN. The Soviet Union.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are you allowed to own real estate, ground and homes?
Can you own one yourself if you could afford to buy it?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, I am allowed, but it is impossible in Moscow to do
that. It is possible in villages and the countryside to buy your own
house, but it is not-well, it is practically not available in Moscow or
in Leningrad to buy. In the suburbs there are houses, very ancient
houses.
Mr. ScrruLTZ. Who owns most of the property in Moscow and Lenin-
grad ? Does the government own it ?
Mr. LEvIN. Yes, only the government, because the government owns
even you, not your thoughts, not vet. All property, all homes, all land
and apartments, they are owned by the government only.
Mr. ScrruLTZ. What about personal property such as your watch,
ring. accumulation of money?
Mr. LEVrN. It is mine, if I didn't, make some criminal offense under
wh;oh it is all confiscated. But it is all mine: T bnuoht it..
The CrrATRMAN. Before you leave the matter of the living quarters.
Mr. Counsel, you say you and your wife only had one room?
Mr. LFvTN. Yes, that's right.
The CTTAIRMAN.. How many square. feet or square meters are con-
tainPd. in the room?
Mr. LEVrN. It was 18 square meters, it is very difficult now.
The CTIAIRMAN. Did you have any children?
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Mr. LEVIN. I have a son there.
The CHAIRMAN. The three of you lived in the apartment in the
one room?
Mr. LEVIN. Not three of us, because my son was born after I left
the Soviet Union. There were two of us.
The CHAIRMAN. You are a researchist?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the extent of your education and training?
Mr. LEVIN. I was trained as a worker in scientific, in nuclear science
in experimental.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you have the equivalent of a college education?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, it is a university education. I have an equivalent
of master's degree in science.
The CHAIRMAN. How about your wife, what kind of an education
did she have?
Mr. LEVIN. She has master's degree in forest engineering.
The CHAIRMAN. Then you should have drawn a pretty good salary.
How many rubles per month?
Mr. LEVIN. I earned 150 rubles per month. It is a. little bit more
than average.
The CHAIRMAN. How much would your wife make?
Mr. LEVIN. 140. If taxes is subtracted, then I was paid 120 approxi-
mately and my wife 118, like that.
The CHAIRMAN. Then you had about 238 rubles income. Was this
house assigned to you, this apartment? Did you pay anything?
Mr. LEVIN. We didn't pay apartment because we had only one room
and we paid about 10 rubles per month for our room.
The CHAIRMAN. There was a rental charge?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, well, we paid to the state, of course, for renting
this apartment. It is quite cheap.
The CHAIRMAN. Was this apartment assigned to you or did you
go house-looking like you do in the United States, or what?
Mr. LEVIN. It is assigned by the police office, by the district police
office, because you have a passport. Every Soviet citizen has a passport
on him, and there is special pages where is the police registration.
And when you begin to live in some apartment, you must have police
registration at this address and this apartment and so on, and it is
mentioned in the police registration where do you live exactly.
The CHAIRMAN. IIow about other people with the equivalent
jobs and training and education that you had, had comparable
housing? From the reports I have gotten from Russia, I thought
the housing conditions were better than that. I thought a
person with your education and training and your position, with your
wife working, too, that you would normally have a better apartment;
an apartment of 18 square meters is certainly not very much.
Mr. LEVIN. I would not say that, because as I know from my per-
sonal practice, we had an average place for our position. `It is average.
Of course, it is better than under Stalin, because Stalin neglected build-
ing construction of apartment buildings. In Khrushchev's time and
now, there is big construction of buildings, but it is not enough ill
Moscow.
The CHAIRMAN. Could you have gotten any larger quarters or bets or
quarters if you had applied for them?
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Mr. LEVIN. No, I don't think so, because it is nine square meters per
person. It was supposed to be a very high rate and if I applied to the
state, to the Moscow municipal offices, for a new apartment in new
apartment building, I would be denied at once.
The CrIAIRDMAN. I see. Proceed, Counsel.
Mr. ScrruLTz. You mentioned there were other people living in the
the apartment. Did you mean in the actual same apartment with you?
Mr. LEViN. Yes, we shared the same kitchen and toilet and bathroom
and corridors.
Mr. SczruLTz. What items of, well, not luxuries, but what items did
you have in your kitchen such as a refrigerator, stove, and this kind of
thing, as opposed to the apartment you have here in New York?
Mr. LEVIN. I was surprised that when you rent an apartment there
is a refrigerator. It is unusual for me, of course.
Mr. ScrruLTz. Did you have a refrigerator in Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. No, in Russia I didn't have. I didn't have. There is gas
stoves there, and that is all.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What kind of heating did you have in your apart_
ment ?
Mr. LEVIN. Gas.
Mr. ScrruLTz. Was each apartment individually heated?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes.
Mr. ScHULTz. We were talking about, private property, amassing
money. Did you have a bank account, a checking account in Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. Well, I had a bank account. There are no checks, the sys-
tem for granting and receiving checks in the. Soviet Union. You are
paid only by cash in your work, your salary pay. There are no checks,
only by cash, everywhere by cash, that is all.
Mr. SCHHULTZ. Mr. Levin, you mentioned that you could accumulate
personal property unless charged with a crime, and then it would be
taken. What type of a crime would result in this property, personal
property going to the state?
Mr. LEVIN. If you earn some money illegally, by speculation, and
if you have some transactions with foreigners, for example, selling
them icons and receiving dollars and, after, reselling dollars, you could
have quite a fortune by this way. You can buy gold things and a lot
of other things; you can buy even a. car. It is suspicion.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are you talking about, in effect, a black market?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes. It is black market or stealing state property, when
you are working as a cashier, for example.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. What happens to somebody who is convicted of a
crime over there, say, a crime of theft? After they get out of prison,
can they go back to work?
Mr. LEVrN. It depends on what work do you want. For example, if
I am in prison when I worked in a high party position or as an engi-
neer, I would have difficulties to find equivalent work after imprison-
ment, because no personnel office would be willing to hire you.
Mr. SCIIr7LTZ. Mr. Levin, you mentioned that you -and your wife
shared in apartment and now have a child since you left. Have you
made any efforts to have your wife and child join you?
Mr. LEviN. Yes, I have. I received from the State Department,
verified by the State Department and by the Soviet Embassy here,
an affidavit inviting my wife and son coming to me for a visit. But
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after 2 years she was refused by the Foreign Ministry to come to me.
After that I wrote a personal letter to Kosygin and I never received
an answer. I don't know what else to do.
Mr. Scirurzrz. What was the basis of this refusal? What answer did
they give you?
Mr. LEVIN. The Soviet authorities are very angry with me because
I made this independent decision that I did not want to go back. They
called it the traitor of the Soviet Union. I am sure that it is the most
serious offense of the Soviet Union to go abroad and to refuse to go
back. It doesn't depend on the reason for that.
Mr. Scrrur.,rz. Is. this set out by law, by the Constitution?
Mr. LEVIN. It is unconstitutional, of course. But they have a special.
article in the Criminal Code, which states the person who refused to
go back to the homeland is a criminal offender, and is punished by
15 years' imprisonment or facing the firing squad, like that. It is not
constitutional at all.
Mr. SciruiTz. Mr. Levin, if you did go back, would you be con-
sidered a political prisoner as opposed to a criminal who steals some-
thing?
Mr. LEVIN. No, I would be tried under this article 64-A in Criminal
Code and would be given about 15 years of imprisonment there in con-
centration camps.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Would you receive the same treatment or go to the
same prison as it thief ?
Mr. LEvIN. No. I would be sent to the political concentration camp,
because I am even dangerous to the thieves, because thieves are con-
sidered as citizens. But I would be considered as an anti-Soviet per-
son and I would be sent only to a political prison.
There are a lot of people who try to cross the Soviet border, which is
tremendously difficult, and they were caught and were thrown into
prison for from 7 to 12 years, and I would make company with them
without any doubt.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What would you do in this concentration camp?
Would you be working, forced labor?
Mr. LEVIN. The concentration camp is a device for forced labor
under very meager conditions. You are undernourished there, but you
work like an elephant mostly in forestry in the industry, cutting wood
and loading wood on platforms. So concentration camps mostly are
in Siberia or in the northern part of the Ural Mountains where there
are no skies, only mosquitoes over you, and you will be about 30 years
oldQ.r after 7 years in prison there.
Mr. SciruLTz. Are these concentration camps solely for Russians
or are they for foreigners who would get in trouble over there?
Mr. LEVrN. They had a special concentration camp for foreigners.
They don't mix foreigners with political prisoners in the Soviet Union,
because the Soviet prisoners in the concentration camp are supposed
to stay forever there if he doesn't change his state of mind, his politi-
cal. views. But foreigners are frequently freed, for example, English
prisoners and so on.
Mr. SCiri?I,TZ. You mentioned if you were to return to Russia you
would be considered a traitor ; however, this was not set out by the Con-
stitution. What allowance is there in the Russian Constitution with re-
gard to freedom of speech ?
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Mr.LEVIN. There are special beautiful words there in the Constitu-
tion that, every citizen of the Soviet Union has a right for free speech,
free publication, free demonstrations, and the state apparatus must
help those citizens who decided to have speech and demonstrations, but
it never happens.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You say it never happens. Do they have disturbances
such as student demonstrations and this type of thing?
Mr. LEVIN. When Sinyavskiy and Daniel were on trial, they were
tried and sent to the concentration camps for writing poems and
stories, and Western literary journals published the stories. They were
sent to the concentration camps and students and professors in Mos-
cow came to the Pushkin Monument to demonstrate against the trial
of them. A lot of demonstrators were fired from their work and until
now quite a few of them were imprisoned for no reason.
Mr. ScnuLTZ. How was this consistent with the Constitution?
Mr. LEVIN. It is unconstitutional, of course, but the Constitution
is window dressing for Italian Communists or for American Com-
munists only. They didn't care about the Constitution and they don't
care about the rights of people. Those things as imprisonment of any
person is decided by the secret police and party committees only, with-
out any constitution. There is no constitution court or appeal for of-
fenders breaking the Constitution.
Mr. Sc7IUT,TZ. In other words, those freedoms of speech and right
to publish, as you mentioned, provided by the Constitution can also
be taken away by the Constitution or in its interpretation?
Mr. LEVIN. It had never been taken by a constitution, but the secret
police and party apparatus deprives people from those rights.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mention the secret police. How do they operate?
Mr. LEVIN. The secret police in the states like the Soviet Union is a
very complicated apparatus. The secret police are everywhere, in your
work, they inform on you. The secret police department in my in-
stitute would hire among workers some informers, approximately 1
in 4 of 20 colleagues, for example, and they have very complicated
tasks, the secret police.
They are Gallup Polls in the Soviet Union, your Gallup Polls in
the Soviet Union. They are censors, political censors of the party
committee. They have a pressure to operate with plain clothes. They
have intelligence services, counterintelligence services.
Mr. SCH LTZ. Do these secret police have the right to bring a charge
against. you directly?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes. They are not legally-for example, if I am a pro-
fessor in the Soviet Union, I come to the notice of secret police, and
they begin an investigation and after investigation they make my
appearance before either closed court or open court, most frequently
before a closed court, "closed chamber" as they call it. The judge is
under full obedience of the secret police, without any hesitation and
without any exception.
Mr. ScnuLTZ. On whom does the burden of proof lie? If you are
charged with a crime, do you have to prove you are not guilty or do
they have to prove, the prosecutor has to prove that you are guilty?
Mr. LFviN. In legally speaking, the judge decides whether I am
guilty or not. But, in practice, the secret police decides, especially in
political offenses, and so on. The secret police decides that.
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In pure criminal cases, theft and so on, the judge decides, very fre-
quently, and you have a right to appeal, and there were cases when
your appeal is granted and you are freed. There were some cases like
that.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. You mention that the secret police kind of function
as our Gallup Poll in sensing the thoughts of the people. Is this public
opinion ever a determining factor in formulating national policy or
changes?
Mr. LEVIN. I`TO, public opinion doesn't influence the Soviet leaders.
I think that they are making investigations, the secret police snake in-
vestigation of that case to feel to what extent Soviet people, Soviet
society, is dangerous for the leaders, you see. It is for survival of the
apparatus.
They know how to make revolutions now, the party leaders, and
they feel that they must feel the society. They don't have any news
papers who would print protests, who would show them that there is
protest, so that is why they feel through the secret police tentacles.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. Is there any accountability to the people at all from
the party officials?
Mr. LEviN. No, there is no such thing. Party officials, I can give. you
an example.
On October 13 Khrushchev was thoroughly Lenin, thoroughly Marx-
ist, he was the greatest man of the world, and on October 14, after a.
day, he vanished from the Soviet Union. No newspaper could mention
him even by name. There was an explanation that Nikita Khrushchev
was sick and he applied for resignation and it was granted, but nobody
believed that.
There is an accountability, but in a distorted way, and not a truth-
ful way. The high Soviet officials don't hesitate to make false state-
ments, and everybody knows that this is a false statement. I bate to
mention it, but it is symbolical things. Everybody knows that it is a
false statement, the government knows that it is a false statement, but
nevertheless it is false and it appears in the Soviet newspapers.
Mr. ScnuLTZ. What benefit is there from reading the newspaper
then?
Mr. LEVIN. For me the Soviet newspapers are very dull and they
were for wrapping matters, because it is very dull and it was not very
interesting for me.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Does the party also control textbooks in schools?
Mr. LEvIN. Yes. There i.s very direct censorship system in the So-
viet Union. They control all publication in the Soviet Union, begin-
ning from textbooks to political books, and so on, and even the literary.
Every printed line must be approved by censorship committees.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Are teachers required to be members of the Com-
munist Party?,
Mr. LEViir. No, they are not required. It is preferable, but they are
not required to be.
Mr. SonurTZ. Would this affect their future if they would not be a
member of the Communist Party?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, it would affect it. It is much easier to make a career
when you are a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What limitations are placed on art and science?
Mr. LrvIN. I would say there is no art in the Soviet Union as art.
Art can't live in prison conditions, you see. The most strict control the
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Soviet Government holds is on art, especially literature and painting
art. You weren't supposed to be surrealist or abstractionist, for an ex-
,.mple. You must obey some rules of so-called social realism. You have
your limits, very strict limits, and the same about literature. You don't
have a right to write about the real condition. You must give rosy
pictures.
Mr. SCHULTZ. W'~'hy is abstract art prohibited, why would that be?
Mr. LrviN. They call abstract painting as a product of the rotting
capitalist world. For the Soviet painting, it was supposed that if you
do that and if you exhibit your abstract painting, you are supposed to
be rotting the Soviet people, you see. You are like the propaganda for
the capitalist system, you see. It is nonsense, it is not serious for us,
but it is very serious for Soviet officials; they are very serious in this
accusation.
(At this point Mr. Scherle left the hearing room.)
Mr. LEVIN. For example, when I talked in my atomic institute
where I worked, when I had a conversation with some low party offi-
cials about abstract painting and he told me that this is capitalist, a
symbol of rotting, 1 said, "Kandinsky was Russian. Kandinsky was
the beginner of abstract painting and was Russia-n." So, OK, he told
me don't make an anti-sort of propaganda. That is all. So I was
silenced.
Mr. Schur Tz. Mr. Levin, do you have elections in Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. For my personal opinion we don't have elections in Rus-
sia, but officially we have them. But they are not secret; they are not
democratic at all. It is window dressing for another world. Would you
call it an election if you are given the ballot with a single name? There
is no election campaign ; there is no choice between the candidates.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Who selects the candidates?
Mr. LEVIN. Party officials only. They are selected by party officials,
and under their strict orders he becomes a candidate, and you are
supposed to vote for him. That is all.
They call Soviet elections, the party officials call them secret, but
they are not secret. There is a long table, you come to the table, you are
registered there that you appeared and you are given a ballot paper
with one name signed there, and from this long table there is long
carpet to the voting, box.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Is voting required?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, it is required and it is not secret. You go straight;
you don't go through some cabins, and so on. If you go to some cabins,
it. means that you are against the party official.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you ever voted?
Mr. LE.'VIN. Yes, I voted many times.
The CIIAIRMAN. You say the. ballot only had one name on it. Is
there any way to vote against that one name?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, you can cross the name. But it would not be secret
for you to cross this name because you are not able to cross it standing
in the open in this room.
The CerAIRi1MAN. Have you ever known of anyone who would dare
to cross out the name?
Mr. LEVIN. I crossed a lot of people there because I didn't like
them. I knew them personally. In 1965 I was supposed to vote for the
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party official by the name of Serov, who was president of the academy
of painting, the art academy. He is so hated, a reactionary in the art
world in the Soviet Union, and I knew him personally and I saw how
he oppressed all creative people in the Soviet Union. I cross him, but
nevertheless there was 99.99 percent who voted for him.
The CHAIRMAN. Did they report how many people crossed him out?
Mr. LrvIN. They report, but nobody believes them, because even if
half of the people or two-thirds of the people would cross him, would
cancel him, they don't care about that. He was selected by the party
officials and he would be.
The CHAIRMAN. Probably not very many people would dare to cross
it out when it is not a secret ballot?
Mr. LEVIN. Of course they would not dare, but if they would dare,
it is all the same. Because, for example, the counting commission, after
the election, records that there are only minority who voted for him,
the district party would say, "OK, forget about that. Write in some
other figure." And that is all.
There is no democracy and there is no means to report about this vio-
lation, there is no means, there is no newspaper where a member of a
counting commission would go and say that there is a violation of
the law, of the Constitution. You would never be accepted. They say,
"OK, forget about that." And everybody knows that, and nobody
crosses him. I knew that it is useless; it is only for protesting inside
me, that is all. If you know that it is useless, you don't care. You get
your ballot and drop it and go out. I don't call such an election as an
election. I call it a committee comedy, you see.
The CIIAnRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. SCHULTZ. I was just going to ask what the public reaction to
this system is.
Mr. LrvIN. The "public" is a very wide word, you see. There is a
different strata of public.
Mr. ScHiuLTZ. What does the Russian who has to go through this
formality think of it?
Mr. LrVIN. The average Russian doesn't care about the party and
about slogans, party slogans, and doesn't care about that. He wants to
live to earn more, to make good conditions for himself. It is very good
for me, because maybe 40 years ago he was enthusiastic about the new
world, but now he is not enthusiastic at all about the Soviet system.
He is neutral now.
There are a lot of stratas. There is proper Communists, proper
party officials, but they are in a minority. There is active professors
and they are a minority, too. A majority of them are in concentration
camps, but not in the open public.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, to what extent is there freedom of religion
in Russia?
Mr. LrviN. They have established you must be Orthodox or Muslim
or you must believe in the Jewish religion, and so on, but you must not
be Baptist and you must not fulfill religious gatherings in your house,
only in the churches. A priest must not serve outside the church. It
is prohibited by the law.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Does church membership preclude being a member of
the Communist Party?
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Mr. LEVIN. Yes, it precludes. You are fired from your membership
if you frequent the church or wear a cross.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Does the government wage a propaganda campaign
of sorts against the church?
Mr. LEVIN. That's right. They have freedom of religion in the Soviet
Union, they call it as a freedom, but they wage vehement antireligion
propaganda in the Soviet Union, but the church doesn't have the right
to answer them. They don't have a right to make a speech before
children in primary school or before students in universities. They
don't have rights. They have only one publication in the patriarchy,
but they don't have means for public appeal of revolution, no.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Mr. Chairman, do you have some additional
questions?
The CHAIRNTAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Levin. I have just a
few questions that I wanted to ask you that came to mind.
How old are you?
Mr. LEVIN. I am 39 years old today, now.
The CHAIRMAN. What month in 1968 did you leave Russia?
Mr. LEVIN. What month?
The CIIAIIUVIAN. Yes, what month of the year?
Mr. LEVIN. April in 1968.
The CIIAIRNTAN. You were born in Moscow. Were you schooled in
Moscow, too?
Mr. LEVIN. I completed my primary education in high school in
the city of Tashkent and I came to Moscow for university education.
The CIIAIRIITAN. You were employed as a researcher; you were
doing research work in Moscow before you left?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, I did research work in Moscow.
The CHAIRMAN. You mentioned the Russian Constitution. It has
been quite a while since I have read the Russian Constitution. I know
that there are words in the Constitution which purport to guarantee
certain freedoms to the individual. Of course, in our Constitution
we have the first amendment which guarantees-freedom of speech,
assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion. This has been
a problem which the country has wrestled around since its very incep-
tion just how far these freedoms do extend. Apparently they do not
extend very far under the communist regime in Russia.
You mentioned the incident of attempted demonstration or dissents
around Pushkin's statue in Moscow Square. Now you left in '68. Has
this been more or less a favorite gathering place for dissenters and
protesters where they have attempted to stage demonstrations over the
years?
Mr. LEVIN. It is not favored by demonstrators, because there are
very few demonstrations in Moscow. But this Pushkin monument
is in the center of Moscow, not far away from the Kremlin, and
Pushkin is the national poet in Russia, and it is a marked place in
Russia.
The CHAIRMAN. You mentioned a demonstration. You left in '68.
I remember one attempted demonstration being reported in the West-
ern newspapers in October of 1969. I say "attempted demonstration"
because it lasted only about 30 seconds before the Russian police
moved in to break it up and cart the demonstrators away from Push-
kin Square. That is when they were protesting the treatment of Rus-
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sian intellectuals and liberals. Did they have demonstrations prior to
that time while you were there?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, they had demonstrations protesting the occupation
of Czechoslovakia, for example, in Red Square.
The CHAIRMAN. What was the month of that?
Mr. LEVIN. In 1968, in August or September of 1968. I would not
call that a demonstration because there were several protesters there
with placards calling for the Soviet Government to stop occupation
of Czechoslovakia. But all the people were relentlessly beaten and
thrown to the prisons and immediately without hesitation, without any
liberal doubts.
The CHAIRMAN. Apparently the government has clamped down even
more since you left, because I know in February of this year-Febru-
ary 5, I believe it was-there were a couple of Europeans, I believe
an Italian boy and a Belgian, who were given a year in jail for attempt-
ing to hand out leaflets. Then I have noticed more recently that they
passed out 5-year sentences for attempts to hand out protest leaflets
somewhere in Moscow-I believe it was in Moscow Square.
Then we also find reports of a new tactic being used to control this,
and that is sentencing dissenters to an insane asylum. Do you know of
any such action while you were in Russia of using sentencing to insane
asylums?
It has been reported they did this to one general who had been pro-
testing the treatment of Russian intellectuals, I believe.
Mr. LEvIN. They have a new tactic today. They throw the Soviet
professors not to prison, but to mental hospitals, which not long ago
compared to the Fascist gas chambers, and it is because it is more
dangerous to be 7 years in a mental hospital than in a concentration
camp, because it kills you mentally. But they are in mental hospitals
for forced confinement. You are given special drugs which destroy
your sleep, destroy your nervous system. And after 7 years in mental
hospitals you are in mental disorder after that time.
The CHAnntMAN. You testified you were not a member of the Com-
munist Party. Would life have been a lot easier if you were a member
of the Communist Party?
Mr. LrvIN. Not a lot easier, but a little bit easier, because there are
too many in the Communist Party. It is not absolute, but it would
be preferable and it would be easier to make a career. For example,
you would not be hired for a position of foreign ministry if you are
not a party member.
The CHAIRMAN. How about your immediate associates, the people
you work with as a researcher? Were most of them Communist Party
members?
Mr. IsviN. No. In research institutes and research work, only what
you did makes a career. There is no political career in science at all,
of course. There is a career in what you did because it is very difficult
to control science by party apparatus, you see. You can control it
politically by party slogans and party officials, understand that.
If they put a top research, party officials, well, science will suffer
from that. They understand that. That is why among scientists in the
Soviet Union there are very few party members. Most party mem-
bers are in among engineers, are among writers, are among adminis-
tration, but not in science and music and so on.
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The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how many Communist Party mem-
bers.there are estimated to be in the Soviet Union now?
Mr. L],WIN. I don't remember the figure, the data about that. I would
say that between 10 and 20 million party members in the Soviet Union,
maybe 18, maybe 15, something like that, but more than 10 million.
The CHAIRMAN. A great many of the young people are joining Com-
munist youth parties, are they not, because of the benefits?
Mr. LEVIN. It is not fashionable now among younger people to
be Communist. It is getting less and less fashionable. How could I
say it ? There is anti-impulse even, you can feel it. It is not good to
be a Communist Party member among the younger generation,
younger than mine, who are now 20, 25 years old. When you are
accented in the party, you are called a little bit strange. I know you
can feel that idea. I know he is Communist and lie wants to make a
career. That is all. Nobody among the younger n eople now believes
in communism and in the Communist dogma. There are a few from
the twenties.
The CHAIRMAN. We have been reading several reports in the news-
papers about discriminatory action being taken against the Jewish
people. Did you observe any of that while you were in Moscow?
Mr. LFVIN. Yes, I observed it. In every more or less important or
less important and responsible organization or apparatus, and so on,
there are quotas for Jews to be hired. For example, in my research
institute they didn't accept Jews at all in the atomic institute. There
were Jews. but they are old now and they made great contributions
to the Soviet nuclear bomb and to the Soviet nuclear research. That
is why they are now head of the department, but younger Jews are
not accepted in secret research institutes.
When I started, when I was a student of physical engineering in-
stitnte, no single Jews were in my faculty, and in my faculty of this
institute. There were a few students to go and study there.
Even in not secret institutes where I worked my last years in the
Soviet Union there is a certain quota and there is some proportion,
you see, and it is this proportion of Jews. And if this proportion of
Jews to other nationalities is exceeded, Jews are not hired there.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you been able to establish any contact with
your family at all?
Mr. LEVIN. I write to my family and I know how to write to my
family, because I know what must be allowed to go. My correspondence
is censored, of course, by secret police, and sometimes they don't allow
my letters to get to my wife. But I correspond with her.
The CIIAIRIIAN. Do you feel your wife would like to join you here?
Mr. LFVIN. Yes, she wants very much to join me, but it is tremen-
dously difficult, it is tremendous.
The CIIAInMAN. Mr. Levin, you are 39 years old. Are your parents
still living?
Mr. LFVIN. Yes, my parents are now on pension. I waited until they
go on pension to get away from the Soviet TTnion, because they are
not harmed now. My father was in the air force, and secret police
would make him quite a hard time for my defection, and I waited until
he went on pension.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Counsel?
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I have further questions on the family matter there, but I won't
ask them for the record now. I will ask them off the record.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, the Communist Party of the United States
frequently refers to their desire for peace in the world. What do the
Communist officials mean when they say that they are seeking peace in
the world?
Mr. LEVIN. It is very difficult to find logic in the Soviet propaganda
statements. I think that by this they mean that America must get away,
must withdraw the troops from Vietnam, from Europe, from every
part of the world. That is what they mean that they are fighting for
peace.
But they don't mention their troops in Czechoslovakia or Hungary
or East Germany. I think that the Soviet propaganda made the state-
ment to blame Americans and West Germany and the Western World
for that.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What is meant by "democratic centralism," the term
as used in the Communist philosophy
Mr. LEVIN. In the Soviet Union democratic centralism, they call
the Soviet Union a democratic country and they call all satellites as
democratic republics. The word "democratic" is supposed to be very
common in the Soviet propaganda. It is not democratic at all.
Centralism, it means that there is centralism in the Soviet Union;
this is the hierarchy, there is one leader and in the center. But they
wouldn't want to call it simply centralism, you see. But you must have
some word for that; they would not call it Fascist centralism, only
democratic. Centralism means that there is in the center, like a hier-
archy, like a pyramid. This is centralism.
Mr. ScirULTZ. Mr. Levin, are there any neighborhood councils or
committees which exercise control over your life in Russia, thinking
of party organization, now?
Mr. LEVIN. "Exercise control," it depends on what kind of life. Party
officials didn't control me if I want to eat or if I want to buy clothing,
you see, but if you go out, if you go out of some. limits, you would feel
the control. For example, if you want to protest against the lack of
free speech in the Soviet Union, you would feel control at once. It
depends on what limits.
Mr. Sciiur.Tz. What I was trying to get at was the control more or
less on a local, state, or district level. Do you have such a local organiza-
tion of the party?-
Mr. LEVIN. Yes, I did. I was in the physical technical department of
my institute.
Mr. ScinurTz. How far does this breakdown now? I am talking
about the neighborhood level. Do you have it in your neighborhood
and the city having larger controls?
Mr. LEVIN. No, I don't have. Every Soviet citizen in the Soviet
Union is controlled by his work, mostly, by party members. But, of
course, there is control of secret police in the neighborhoods and po-
licemen are there who would survey you. There is assigned policemen
to every neighborhood. They control, for example, if you have drunken
parties, to frequent, drunken ',parties. Your neighbors may inform a
policeman, and the policeman would investigate why, how many, how
frequent, and how much money they spent. They investigate you.
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Mr. ScnuLTZ. Mr. Levin, is there any limitation on the accumula-
tion of wealth in the Soviet Union?
Mr. LEvIN. No, there is no limitation on that. You can buy a car,
two cars, if you have money. You can buy a house out of the limits
of the city, maybe two houses, but if you have legal money-if you
buy, for example, two cars, I think that it is quite probably that the
policemen will investigate where did you have money, because they
know pretty sure that you can't have money if you are an engineer,
you can't have money for two cars. Maybe there would be one car
after 10 years of working, but not two cars. That is too much.
Mr. SonuLTZ. You could have savings accounts in banks?
Mr. LEVIN. Yes.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. Mr. Levin, one final question. What criticism would
you have of the United States now that you have lived here for 2
years?
Mr. LFVrN. I don't live here for a long time, for quite enough time..
I think that the Government of the United States doesn't explain very
sufficiently about his purposes in the Vietnam war. I feel that the Gov-
ernment of the United States hesitates to do that because people in the
United States, as I feel, are under influence of liberal newspapers who
know only part of the truth. Of course it is not very pleasant to have
kids killed in the war. They are right to some extent, but there is an-
other side. There is communistic Russia and the Chinese communists:
who like to invade not directly, but indirectly, all of Indochina. There
is no doubt of Soviet intelligence, for example. I think you are not
efficient in explaining this kind of thing.
Of course, there is crime, and you are too liberal with this crime. I
am not accustomed to this liberalism with crime. I am a former Soviet
citizen, and they are more efficient because of the system. They can't
care about rights.
I cannot give you my opinion of the United States because I don't
live here for enough time to make serious and mature convictions.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Levin, thank you very much. Air. Chairman, I
have no further questions.
Mr. LEVIN. I have one question to you, Mr. Chairman. I would like
to know could you help me from your high position to influence the
Soviet Government to allow my wife to join me? If you have any
means, could you help me with that? I don't have any means to do that.
I applied personally to Kosygin and I applied to the Soviet Govern-
ment through legal channels and I don't have any right.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you visited with any of the State Department
officials in this country?
Mr. LEVIN. No, not yet. I don't know how to do that, but I think
that the Soviet Government would listen to you as a Congressman and
maybe it could help.
The CHAIRMAN. Certainly, Mr. Levin ; I intend to make contact with
the State Department, and we will explore any possible way that we
can help you to be reunited with your family.
You are obviously a very brave and courageous man, and I hope we
are able to help you. I want to wish you great success and happiness
and that you do find the peace that you have tried to obtain with
such tremendous sacrifice.
Thank you very much. I can assure you I will look into the matter
and do whatever I possibly can as a Member of Congress.
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Mr. LEVIN. Thank you, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.
Mr. Counsel, it is now 5 minutes until 12. You have one more witness
scheduled for today?
Mr. ScHULTZ. Yes, sir; we do.
The CHAIRMAN. How long do you think it will take for his testi-
mony?
Mr. SCHULTZ. I would guess about an hour.
The CHAIRMAN. Whom do you have scheduled for tomorrow?
Mr. SCHULTZ. We have Dr. William Kintner, University of Penn-
sylvania.
The CHAIRMAN. I wonder if it would be possible for Dr. Mladek to
return tomorrow?
Mr. SCIiULTZ. May I have just a moment to discuss it.
The CHAIRMAN. Itis now 5 minutes to 12, and I expect an early roll-
call this afternoon.
The meeting will be adjourned until tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., Wednesday, June 24,1970, the committee
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, June 25, 1970.)
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THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF COMMUNISM
IN 1970
THURSDAY, JUNE 25, 1970
UNITED STATES HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY,
Washington, D.C.
The Committee on Internal Security met, pursuant to recess, at 10
a.m., in Room 311, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C.,
Hon. William J. Scherle presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Richard H. Ichord
of Missouri, chairman, William J. Scherle of Iowa, Richardson
Preyer of North Carolina, and John M. Ashbrook of Ohio.
Staff members present: Donald G. Sanders, chief counsel; and
Richard L. Schultz, associate chief counsel.
Mr. ScirERLE. The committee will come to order.
Will the counsel call the first witness?
Mr. SCHULTz. Dr. Mladek.
Mr. ScIIERLE. Mr. Mladek, will you stand and be sworn in.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. MLADEK. I do.
Mr. ScIERLE. Be seated. Counsel, proceed.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, will you state your full name and address
please?
Mr. MLADEK. Jiri Mladek, New York.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Where were you born, Mr. Mladek?
Mr. MLADEK. In Bohemia in Czechoslovakia, Dasice.
Mr. Sclluvrz. Where have you spent most of your life?
Mr. MLADEK. In Prague, Czechoslovakia.
Mr. SciluLTz. When did you leave Prague and come to the United
States?
Mr. MLADEK. In December'66.
Mr. Sch uLTz. In what month did you request asylum in the United
States?
Mr. MLADEK. On February 17,1970.
Mr. SchiuLTZ. Dr. Mladek, would you outline for us your educa-
tional background and your reasons for coming to the United States?
Mr. MLADEK. I finished law school in Prague in 1 w'0 and I came to
the United States as first secretary of the Czechoslovakia mission to
the United Nations.
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Mr. ScuuLTZ. When you left the Legation to the United Nations,
did you take any particular steps to leave? Did you advise them that
you were leaving?
Mr. MLADEIK. No.
Mr. SCHULTZ. You left without permission or without the knowledge
of the Czechloslovakian Government?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you describe for us your education in Czecho-
slovakia as it relates to the communist doctrine? Did you learn the
teachings of Marx and Lenin while you are in high school and college?
Mr. MLADEX. The first, lectures were in the party, which I joined in
June 1945. Then in 1949, during my law studies, I was employed in
foreign trade.
I was dismissed from my studies in '49. After an interview, I was
permitted to resume my studies, but had to pass three exams on the
history of philosophy, and economics of Marxism-Leninism.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Were these written exams?
Mr. MLADEX. No, they were oral exams.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you describe for us your entrance into the
Communist Party? Why did you join the Communist Party?
Mr. MLADEK. I entered the party at the request of my father, who
was director of a sugar mill of a small town in East Bohemia. He
was 63 in 1945 and was quite ill. The chairman of the party, who was
one of the workers in the sugar mill, advised my father and ine to join
the party. The sugar mills were to be. nationalized, and all the em-
ployees, particularly in management, should be members of the party.
My father was afraid that he would otherwise be dismissed.
Mr. ScIIULTz. In other words, it would have been detrimental to your
father's career if he did not join the Communist Party?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCHIULTZ. Were you required to attend meetings?
Mr. MLADEK. No. I lived partly in Dasice with my parents and partly
in Prague. I was registered only in this factory Communist Party orga-
nization in Dasice where I never worked and for that reason managed
to escape attending party meetings.
I first attended a party meeting in 1949 in Prague in the place where
I worked.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, did you belong to the Czechoslovakian
youth group while you were in high school?
Mr. MLADEK. No.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. You did not?
Mr. MLADEK. No.
Mr. SonULTZ. Did they have any training or classes with regard to
communist doctrine in the high school?
Mr. MLADEIc. Because I was older, I was at the university after '45.
Especially after '48, all schools started propagating the communist
doctrine.
Mr. SCHULTZ. So after 1948 all of the schools had the communist
doctrine?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Are the textbooks controlled by the Communist
Party ?,
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, they are.
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Mr. SCHULTZ. What control was placed on the teachers?
Mr. MLADEK. The teachers are required to teach according to Marx-
ist-Leninist doctrine. All school directors and many teachers are mem-
bers of the party.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Is that a prerequisite, to be a member of the party?
Mr. MLADEK. No, it isn't for teachers.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How do the teachers handle questions of inquiring
minds that may not be in consonance with the Communist Party
doctrine?
Mr. MLAVEK. I think for a teacher it is especially dangerous not to
follow the party line because there are a lot of cases where the parents
inquired of their children and the children told them that the teacher
had said this or that. I remember several cases in Prague in which
teachers were brought to trial because they had spoken against the
socialist doctrine or against the principal interests of the socialist
state.
One of these was only a small remark. One woman teacher on the
7th of March referred to the anniversary of President Masaryk; this
was sufficient for the state prosecutor to put her on trial.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What was this teacher's status before the court? Was
she a criminal charged with a crime?
Mr. MLADEK. There were special laws dealing with so-called political
crimes. She was accused of having endangered the education of youth
and of having violated the main obligations of a socialist teacher.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, you mentioned that in preparation for
your degree you took an oral test. Did you also write a paper?.
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, I wrote a paper to obtain a doctorate degree on
the responsibility of the state. It was in 1950, the last year in which
it was possible to write somewhat freely. For that reason, in my work
I didn t use any ideas of Marxism or Leninism. It was based on so-
called bourgeois doctrine.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What limitations are placed on the arts or sciences
or writing of pa ers? You say yours was one of the last freely written.
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, because in the second part of 1950 all universities
underwent a so-called reform. You were then permitted to write only
on themes which were on a list approved by the party and by the direc-
torate of the university, all in accordance with the teachings of the
party.
Mr. SCIFULTZ. Would you say today that there is a limitation on the
freedom of expression in writing?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, there is. There was an exception in the year 1968
because of the liberation movement in Czechoslovakia. But in all other
years there was such a limitation.
Mr. SCHHULTZ. What was this exception?
Mr. MLADEK. In that year as you could follow here in the news-
papers, there was a large national liberation movement. The party was
put aside and the people spoke freely and wrote freely in the news-
papers. There were a lot of meetings where the people expressed their
real opinions.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, when you finished your education, you
went out to get a job. Would you describe for us what type of work
you did and how you got your job?
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Mr. ML.annzc. My first job after my studies was in the Legal Advice
Bureau in Prague, a type of lawyers' collective similar to a law firm
here. After the mandatory 4-year period of internship, I passed the bar
examination and then for 2 years worked as an attorney in Prague.
Mr. Scz3uLTZ. Now in your legal work did you represent criminals
or people charged with crimes against the state?
Mr. MLADEK. No. In 1956, as the youngest attorney in Czechoslo-
vakia, I was assigned to the ranks of attorneys defending such in-
dividuals. I recognized the futility of the defense in such cases and,
since I couldn't escape this responsibility in any other manner, I re:
signed from the bureau rather than have to handle them.
Mr. ScnuLTZ. You resigned?
Mr. MLADFE:. Yes, because the attorney had no real possibility of
defending these people. Everything was prepared in advance by the
state police, and the attorney had a very unhappy role in court.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Why is that? Where is the burden of proof in a
criminal case?
Mr. MLADEK. The burden of proof is on the state prosecutor.
Mr. SciruLTZ. But you felt that the attorney who defended a. person
charged with a crime against the state would be handicapped?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
(At this point Mr. Preyer entered the hearing room.)
Mr. SCHIULTZ. Why is that?
Mr. MLADEK. For example, in the common case of a person charged
with anticommunist statements, the attorney could not defend him
on the ground that he was simply exercising the right to freedom of
expression, since this would be regarded as defense of the crime rather
than the individual. This left the attorney without any real defense.
There was only one acceptable philosophy in the world, and all ex-
pressions of opinion had to conform to it.
Mr. ScHsuLTZ. You mentioned that you resigned prior to defending
persons charged with crimes?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SoiiULTZ. This would indicate that you had a choice, a freedom of
working where you wanted?
Mr. MLADEK. As you know, as an attorney you were not a direct em-
ployee of the state. You were a member of the lawyers' committee and,
for that reason, you could resign.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. Where did you then go to work, Dr. Mladek?
Mr. MLADEK. I joined the Foreign Division of the Ministry of
Finance,where I worked for 1 year as a senior legal adviser and for 1
year as administrator. I then became chief of the division.
Mr. ScsiuLTZ. You then worked in the finance aspect of the, Czecho-
slovakian Government; is that right?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SciruLTz. Considering the economy of Czechoslovakia, finances
with which you would be familiar, how was the economy controlled?
Who controls the economy?
Mr. MLADEK. Everything is under the party, including the economy,
in both a direct and indirect sense. If you wish to put some important
proposal to the government, you first put it to the secretariat of the
central committee. If this committee approves you can then put it for-
mally to the government.
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The Foreign Division dealt in matters concerning Western Europe
and the so-called free world. There was another division for the social-
ist countries. All the proposals from these divisions were first brought
before the party committee.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Do I understand correctly you are saying that you
would present a program to the party and then if it was OIL
Mr. MLADEK. These were not programs, but rather precise proposals
about what you intended to discuss with other countries, and in what
financial context.
Mr. SCHULTZ. It would go first to the party, and then if OK'd it
would be handled by the government?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCHULTZ. So it is correct, then, to say that the party is the one
that controls the economy, as opposed to the government?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How are wages and prices controlled?
Mr. MLADEK. Wages and prices are fixed at levels set by the party.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Is there any competition permitted?
Mr. MLADEK. No.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Do you have any forced labor in Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. In the fifties there was forced labor. Some people were
put into special camps.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Where did these people come from? Were they
criminals?
Mr. MLADEii. People were put into these camps with out a formal
trial or sentence.
Mr. SCHuLTz. Is it a crime not to work in Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, because every citizen of Czechoslovakia has the
right and the obligation to work for the benefit of the socialist society.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Now is this specifically contained in the Constitution?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SczzuLTZ. Does the Constitution grant rights to the people which
it can also take away ?
Mr. MLADEK. The Constitution grants all of what can roughly be
described as human rights, but in a later paragraph it is stated that
these rights can also be abolished by law in the interest of the socialist
community. For that reason, all. these rights could be described as
conditional.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Would you say that the law takes into consideration
the human dignity of the individual?
Mr. MLADEK. No. Theoretically it does, but in fact all your activity,
all your thinking and acting must be in conformity with the interests
of socialist society. All considerations of human dignity are ultimately
subordinate to these interests. For that reason, in practice you are very
limited in your behavior.
(At this point Mr. Ashbrook entered the hearing room.)
Mr. ScHHULTZ. Let's return to the area of economy you were talking
about. You mentioned forced labor in some areas. Do you have any
idea of the number of people that would be involved in forced labor?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, in the 1950's there were, I think, several 10,000
people.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Several tens of thousands of people?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
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(At this point Mr. Scherle left the hearing room, and Mr. Preyer
presided.)
Mr. Sch uLTZ. What is the availability of consumer goods? What is
the quality ?
Mr. MLADEK. The quality is quite low. There have been several
attempts to improve quality, some of them moderately successful, others
merely making matters worse. Roughly we can say that the quality is a
little better in Czechoslovakia than in other socialist countries because
Czechoslovakia had an advanced economy before the war. Some part of
it seemed to remain, everything was not absolutely spoiled.
But in general, Czechoslovakia's economy has been going down and
down under the communist regime. Some of the East European coun-
tries were modernized and showed improvement in some respects, but
this was not true in Czechoslovakia.
Mr. ScHuLTZ. What is the reason for this? Why is the economy
going down and down?
Mr. MLADEH.. First of all, I think the communist conceptions of eco-
nomics is wrong. The economies of the socialist countries are sub-
ordinate to the interests of the Soviet Union. For that reason the
structure of the economy in Czechoslovakia was destroyed after 1948.
There was a large, heavy industry built without local sources of
raw materials. For that reason a lot of this heavy industry was work-
ing on the basis of Soviet raw materials and the finished.producrs
were sent to the Soviet Union. We can say that roughly three-quar-
ters of the Czechoslovaks were working for the benefit of the Soviet
Union. With the exploitation of a small country by such a huge one,
the result was quite clear. The economy went down and down.
In 1960 they experienced very great difficulties. The members of
the Presidium appealed to Moscow several times, and they were per-
mitted to slow down the tempo of heavy industry a little. After 1960
they put more investment into light industry, the consumer goods
industry.
Mr. SCHULTZ. If the economy of Czechoslovakia is directly tied to
Russia, is this a political instrument to further the aims of interna-
tional communism? Is the economy used as an instrument to further
international communism?
Mr. MLADEK. Of course, I think everything is used for the final
end-that is, first of all, to build up communism in all East European
countries, and then to use every opportunity to extend communism in
other world areas. That means that these socialist countries, the coun-
tries which are members of the Warsaw Pact Treaty, are obliged to
support every moment in every country which has the aim of build-
ing communism.
Mr. ScziuLTZ. What are the objectives of communism as you learned
them and what are the practical aspects as you've observed?
Mr. MLADng. The first priority is to complete the construction of a
communist society in the countries where the Communist Party rules,
and then to support all fraternal parties in other countries. That
means the workers parties, the Communist parties of Eastern Eurnne,
and then especially all people's movements in. developing countries.
Just now the postion of the Soviet TTnion and the other socialist
countries toward the developing countries is diversified. The socialist
countries support only those developing countries which follow the.
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socialist line or which are prepared to do so. The developing countries
which are merely paying lip service, but which have much more con-
nection with capitalism, will not be supported.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Isn't this a drain on the countries that are trying to
support, these developing countries? Doesn't this drain the economy
of Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, of course, it did and I think still does.
Mr. SciiuLTz. What do you foresee as a practical matter how this
will work out? Can they continue to do this, drain the countries to
support those countries who are becoming socialist in nature?
Mr. MLADEK. It weakened some of the socialist countries, but, as
you know, there is -a belief among them that they should all be put
on the same level. I was told that when some Czechoslovak officials
complained to Moscow about the state of the economy, they were told
it doesn't matter, because Czechoslovakia, should be put on the same
level as Poland, Rumania, and Bulgaria; when they were all on
the same level, they could then proceed forward, together.
Mr. SciiuLTz. We talked a little bit about the employment aspect,
the freedom you had to move to a job, and some reference to the Con-
stitution in human rights. I am wondering if there is freedom of reli-
gion in Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. No, there isn't. You have freedom of religion expressed
in the Constitution, but your use of this freedom is held to be against
the interests of socialist society. That means a member of the party
should not be a member of a religious society.
But also other people who were not members of the party were
persecuted if they regularly attended church in the 1950's.
After the fifties, it was not so closely followed. There was some
freedom, but after 12 years of persecution most people were not pre-
pared to endanger themselves by visiting churches. But you can visit
churches, especially in Prague, because in these churches there is a
lot of nice music; some people, if they were asked by the party people
or by their chief at work, simply replied, "We were present in the
church but only to hear the music."
Mr. ~cHULTZ: Is there active propaganda against the church?
Mr. MLADEK. I think just now there isn't, but there was in the 1950's.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Membership in a church does not preclude member-
ship in the Communist Party, does it?
Mr. MLADEK. No.
Mr. SciiuLTz. It does?
Mr. MLADEK. I'm sorry, I meant that one does preclude the other.
If you are a member of the party, you should not be a churchgoer,
because if you are a Marxist, it is impossible to believe in God.
Mr. SciiuLTz. Is there any attempt to create antagonism between
the laity and the clergy ?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes. As you know, first of all, the property of the
church, in Czechoslovakia particularly the Catholic Church, was na-
tionalized, was taken by the state. The priests were then paid by the
state, but the salaries were very low-half of that of an unqualified
worker. Then in the 1950's all the seminaries were closed. For that
reason there were no new priests entering the church. During the liber-
ation movement at the beginning of '68 there were some seminaries
reopened.
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Mr. Sc-nuLrz. Does the govermnent consider the church as a possi-
ble source of criticism to the government?
Mr. Mr AnE1i. The church openly criticized the government during
the first 5 or 7 years of the communist regime, and a lot of priests were
put into prison. They were sentenced to about 20 years.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What criticism of the government is permitted?
Mr. MLAVEK. Only constructive criticism. That means that you can
say, "I agree with the government and with the aims of the govern-
ment and the parliament and so on, only I think that this special
sector should work more or should do this."
That means you can spend an hour praising the government and the
party, and there 1 minute saying something small is not good. That
is so-called constructive criticism, because you should have the aim:
of improving the policy of the party, of improving the economy.
Mr. SCHIILTZ. Is there any dissent allowed by the college students.
and, if so, how is this infraction handled? Do college students get to.
dissent and demonstrate? Are they allowed to do that?
Mr. MLADEK. No, they are not allowed to do so. There was only
one large dissent, which took place in the last year when Mr. Novotny
was chief of the party and President of the republic. The students:
complained that there was no light or heat in their dormitories, and
they were beaten by the police. They were not put into prison, but
were detained for 3 days.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How would the dissent be handled by the party or
government of an adult other than students? How was dissent han-
dled if somebody dissented?
Mr. MLADEK. They are political crimes, all of these.
Mr. ScauLrz. What does the Czechoslovakian man on the street
think about this? What is his attitude toward the party?
Mr. MLADEK. You must imagine that the absolute majority, maybe
90 percent of these people, after 25 years of communism are accustomed
to keeping their opinions to themselves. The only exception was during
the last 2 years before the Soviet invasion.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, how do the people let off steam? How da
they get rid of whatever question or feeling they might have of anxiety
in this very controlled and repressive atmosphere?
Mr. MLADEK. Just now I didn't understand.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. You say they can't dissent. If they do, they can
be considered criminals against the state and committing a crime
against the state. How do they let steam off and get rid of these
frustrations, or do you just withhold it within?
Mr. MLADEK. No, they try to avoid this. They go to private panties
with their friends, or stay by themselves after their work. You can
see it in the factories and ministries. In my office the people were
divided because in each group, in each department and division there
were hardliners. The majority of the others avoid them and are very
cautious in their presence, but after work the others visit among
themselves, where they can express themselves more freely.
The minority, the hardliners, also remain among themselves. For
that reason, the nation is very divided. If your chief at work has
some higher party function, you avoid. any outside contacts with him_
Mr. SCHULTZ. You mentioned that the country is divided between
hardliners and those who may be not so indoctrinated?
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Mr. MLADEK. It became especially clear in 1968 that the workers are
against the regime. The demonstrations in Prague showed that not
only were the students and the intelligentsia for liberation but the
majority of the workers as well.
Mr. ScHULTZ. You are saying the majority of the workers are not,
then, Communist Party members?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes. I think the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia
had 1.8 million members last year. Just now the members are being
evaluated,'and their number is being reduced. The majority of mem-
bers were state civil servants and not workers. It was obligatory that
civil servants and higher employees in the national enterprises be
members of the party, but the workers were not obliged to because they
could not be dismissed.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Dr. Mladek, is it in vogue now not to be a member
of the Communist Party? Is this the "thing of the day," not to join
the party? I am talking about the younger people now. Do they
see any benefit in joining 2
Mr. MLADEK. No, in Czechoslovakia I think there's a special situa-
tion. After 1968 the absolute majority of young people refused to
become members of the party. A lot of honest people now are not only
prepared to be dismissed from the party, but are actually contributing
to their dismissal by their open hostility and refusal to conform.
This is also the case in the ministries and higher offices.
Mr. SchiuLTZ. Is the party becoming more selective in their member-
ship?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes. Following the policy of the Soviet Communist
Party, the Czechoslovak Party has just announced its intention of
reducing its size. Only hardliners will be retained, and they'll try to
have a larger proportion of workers.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Isn't this inconsistent with their training and in-
doctrination at the lower levels through the youth groups and in the
Czechoslovakian youth party? Isn't this an 'inconsistency? They are
becoming more selective in the membership of the Communist Party,
but the total indoctrination is on a broad scale in the schools. They
exposed the high school students at an early age to the Marx-Lenin
ideology, but than they become selective when it comes to party
membership?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, at the same time they are teaching that only the
best of them can become members of the party because this is the
greatest honor for a citizen.
Mr. SCHIULTZ. I see they are looking for those with total commitment
then.
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Dr. Mladek, we know that you came to the United
States. Would you discuss for us a little bit the freedom of travel
within Czechoslovakia.?
Mr. MLADEK. There is such freedom. There never was the same kind
of limitation as in the Soviet Union.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Did you have to have a passport to travel within
Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. No.
Mr. SCHULTZ. How about to leave Czechoslovakia?
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Mr. MLADEK. That is more difficult, because nobody is entitled by
right to have a passport. You can obtain a passport only for an indi-
vidual trip. Before the trip, the state police make inquiries at your
neighbors, in the party, in the trade union. If they think that you can
travel, that there is no danger that you will stay abroad, then they
will grant a passport.
In 1966 they started to proceed in a somewhat more liberal manner,
but there was also a limitation as far as hard currency is concerned.
For that reason the number of citizens that was permitted to travel
abroad was limited and the number of days was quite short.
Mr. ScIiuLTz. Could you expend your own money to go on a trip
or did you have to have a guarantee of the money from outside of
Czechoslovakia to travel?
Mr. MLADEK. In most cases, you needed some outside source of
money. Because Czechoslovakian currency is not freely exchangeable.
Only a small number of people was permitted to buy hard currency
at the state bank, but it was most expensive.
For example, the official rate is $1 equals 7 korunas, but if you
bought these dollars at the state bank, the rate was 35 korunas for a
dollar. The maximum was, I think, $100 per person. But the number
of persons was limited, I think, to 10,000 a year.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, are the borders of Czechoslovakia for-
tified?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, the borders with the Federal Republic of Germany
and Austria, no others.
Mr. SCHULTZ. For what reason, what is the purpose?
Mr. MLADEK. Because there is danger from the capitalist world.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What I was getting at, we were talking about travel
and I was wondering if the fortification of the borders was to, in part,
keep Czechoslovakians within Czechoslovakia. Could you cross these
fortified borders into another country?
Mr. MLADEIK. No, I think it would be very hard. The best pos-
sibility might be the border between Czechoslovakia and West Ger-
many, where there are mountains and large woods. There were several
attempts to cross the border. Some of them ended with the death of
the persons involved.
Mr. ScnuLTZ. Is contact with foreigners permitted openly in Czech-
oslovakia.?
Mr. MLADEK. In the 1950's it was very dangerous to have any con-
tact with foreigners from Western countries. After 1960 there was
some relaxation, but you had to be prepared for a visit from some
plainclothesmen soon after such a contact. They might ask you what
you discussed with this person, what was the purpose of your contact,
whether you got something for him, if you promised anything, and so
on.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, what benefits accrue to the workers in
Czechoslovakia? I am thinking of some benefits with regard toj
hospitalization.
Mr. MLADEK. In Czechoslovakia there is not such a sharp distinc-
tion between salary and benefits. You have your salary and then there
is obligatory insurance as far as medical costs are concerned and your
pension, and that is all.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Do you have a free medical service?
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Mr. MLADEK. Yes. Every citizen who works has free medical care,
Mr. ScHULTZ. What is the quality of this medical care?
Mr. MLADEK. The quality is poor because of an insufficiency of medi-
cines and the small number of doctors. Since medical care is free, every
citizen visits a doctor any time he wants. For that reason, each doctor
in a clinic or medical center has an average of 120 patients a day. He
is absolutely unable to consult with them for very long.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Is the quality of medical care the same for everyone?
Mr. MI,ADrm. No, there are exceptions. There is a state sanatorium
for higher party and government functionaries, and I have heard
that is very good. I never was there. There is one doctor for three or
five patients.
All the medicines are from Switzerland, the United States, England,
France, and the care is excellent.
Mr. SciruLTZ. Now you mentioned that in one place there is one
doctor for 120 patients per day and another place a doctor for four
or five patients. How do you become eligible to take advantage of
the facility where they have a doctor for four or five patients?
Mr. MLADEK. The state sanatorium can be used only by members.
of the central committee of the party, high-ranking government offi-
cials, the chairman and the members of the National Assembly, and
high-ranking police and military officers.
Lower ranking officers also receive special treatment in military
hospitals where there are more competent doctors than in civilian
clinics.
Mr. ScHULTZ. If the particular person involved falls in disfavor
and loses his party position, does he also lose his benefits?
Mr. MLADEK. He almost immediately loses all these advantages and
also must move out of his state-owned villa.
Mr. SCIIULTZ. Dr. Mladek, could you tell us what is taught in
Czechoslovakia concerning the probability of a revolution in the United
States?
(At this point Mr. Ashbrook left the hearing room.)
Mr. MLADEK. I think it is not especially aimed against the United
States. Revolution is predicted for all capitalist countries.
Communists believe that someday all the world will be under a
communist regime.
Mr. SC HULTZ. How do communist leaders view these student dis-
orders in the United States?
Mr. MLADEK. I think during this time I was here, but if you follow
the press in communist countries you can see that it reflects only
so-called negative movements in the capitalist countries. They print
everything regarding strikes and other disorders. I think that all these
communist countries believe that every disorder contributes to the
final end because it weakens the capitalist countries and makes the
possibility of a revolution or other change more probable.
Mr. ScrruLTZ. What do they consider the chief weakness?
Mr. MLADEK. I think it is in the social field, that the workers here
are not receiving sufficient benefits in the sphere of social rights and
for that reason will step by step become more revolutionary.
Mr. Scuur,Tz. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
Mr. PT{EYER (presiding). Thank you very much, Doctor, for your
testimony. I wanted to ask one question about the economy to see if we.
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could take a specific example and see how it would work in Czechoslo-
vakia as compared with the United States. Perhaps you are familiar
with the area of Washington known as Georgetown, near where we
are. Georgetown has many small shops and stores.
In Czechoslovakia if a group of young people decided that they
wished to open a store which sold psychedelic clothes or psychedelic art
or phonograph records of the kind that young people enjoy, how would
they go about it?
First, they would have to have a store, a place to do business. How
would they get that? Who owns the land in Czechoslovokia, say, in
Prague, and if you wanted to open a store in Prague, from whom would
you rent the store?
Mr. MLADEK. Mr. Chairman, I think first of all you would need
permission from the so-called people's committee. That is something
like city hall ; the Czechoslovaks call it the people's committee.
Mr. PREYER. You could not go to a private citizen and lease your
store from him?
Mr. MLADEK. You couldn't do so because in Czechoslovakia there are
no private stores.
Mr. PREYER. All of the land, then, the buildings are owned by the
government ?
Mr. MLADEK. The land is owned by the government with the excep-
tion of land where there are one-family houses.
Mr. PREYER. To get the store, you would have to go to the government
to get permission for the store. Then you would have to have some
money to operate the store, some capital. Where would you get the
capital? Could you go to a bank and borrow it? Or do you have to go
to the government and have it put in the government's budget?
Mr. MLADEK. If you are permitted to have a store and to sell goods,
you can go to the bank and borrow money.
Mr. PREYER. The bank is the government bank?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. PREYER. So the decision to allow you to operate this store auto-
matically means the bank would give you the money?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes. I will tell you if an American citizen came to
Prague and wanted to have a store and sell anything, he would go to
the people's committee. The people's committee would be extremely
surprised and would immediately send a letter to the central commit-
tee of the party, because this is something so exceptional that the mayor
of Prague would have nothing to do with this permission. For this
reason, I think the president of the party would have a session and
decide if an American citizen should be permitted to have such a store
in Prague.
Mr. PREYER. So the decisions, I take it, are made by the government
or by the party on the basis of whether the store would contribute to
the goals of the socialist republic, or something of that sort?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, especially in this case where an American citizen
wants to sell psychedelic goods, and so on, they would decide if it is
not against the interests of the socialist community.
Mr. PREYER. So something like an art museum or the selling of psy-
chedelic clothes or psychedelic posters would probably not be consid-
ered as something furthering the goals of the country?
Mr. MLADEK. No, I don't think so.
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Mr. PREYER. Are there any such stores in Prague, as a matter of in-
terest, that sell psychedelic clothes and posters?
Mr. MLADEK. I have heard that in 1968 and '69 there were some, not
stores, but young people on the streets who sold such things, but I am
not sure if it is permitted at this time.
Mr. Piu rzu. So it would be very difficult for young people there to
start that kind of an operation, just because they wanted to do it and
because they had the initiative and were able to get hold of property
or able to raise the money from friends or from a bank as they could
do here.
An underground newspaper, such as the Quicksilver Times, I sup-
pose, in Czechoslovakia would really be underground, wouldn't it? It
just would not be called "underground."
Mr. MLADEK. Yes.
Mr. PREYR. Is there any underground press, underground news-
papers published in Czechoslovakia?
Mr. MLADEK. Just now I don't know.
Mr. PREYER. I have just one other question. On the freedom of re-
ligion points you mentioned, I was in Poland last summer and one of
the impressive things about Warsaw is' the number of churches there.
There are something like 50 churches in Warsaw and these are big
churches; some of them could really be described as cathedrals.
Poland is a very religious country. I think 90 percent of their people
are Catholics and are devout in that country. There you find that there
is not a real effort made to suppress religion because the realities of
political life would make it impracticable; you would have a revolu-
tion on your hands.
But you find that it is undermined wherever possible. For example,
in the monasteries and in the schools training priests the government
regulates the number of people who can be trained, and they have cut
the number way down from what it used to be to a quarter of what it
used to be, so that they are not training the priests to take over to re-
place what they have now.
Is this kind of thing the way religion is dealt with in Czechoslovakia,
rather than a direct attack on it which would stir up the people? Do
they go at it indirectly by undermining the monasteries and the schools
and the training grounds and downgrading in that fashion?
(At this point Mr. Ichord entcrec the hearing room.)
Mr. MLADEK. Mr. Chairman, it was done both ways. Starting in 1950
there was a direct attack on the church. Later on it was only indirect.
That means that for some years the seminaries, the institutions edu-
cating priests were virtually closed and there was only -a small number
of persons admitted to attend them.
There is a basic difference between Poland and Czechoslovakia in
that in Poland there was never such an attack on the church because
the church was the strongest institution in the country. Another dif-
ference is that in Poland there are far more private farmers and fewer
national farms.
Mr. PREYER. The farmers seem to be the happiest and the best off
people in Poland.
Mr. MLADEK. But as far as churches are concerned, the cathedrals
and churches in Prague, I think you can find more than a hundred
churches in Prague and several cathedrals. Some of them are very
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nice, gothics, baroques, and especially the Prague baroque style is
famous.
Mr. PREYEn. Your comment on contacting foreigners, that is, Czech-
oslovakians talking with Americans, you pointed out that this was
difficult, not because of any flat prohibition on it, but simply because
the Czechoslovakian citizen is apt to be visited by the plainclothes-
man after he makes contact, so that the idea gets around pretty
quickly that you are not supposed to make contact.
This is something that is a real problem. While I didn't visit Czecho-
slovakia, I visited the other Eastern European countries and I find
there that this is true, even with our Embassy people, that they want
to know the people of the country. They want to make contact with
them and so have a better understanding, but they find that it is very
difficult to do.
Furthermore, they have to be extremely careful because they may
be seriously penalizing their friends, say, a Hungarian native or a
Polish native, if they invite them to their homes, if they make con-
tact with them. As a result, they try to bridge the gap between people
and try to bring about understanding, and it is a very difficult thing
to do.
In Russia our people live in a compound and they might as well be
living in New York City. And this is pretty much true in other areas,
such as Poland, so that this is an extremely difficult problem to know
how to deal with.
Our people . don't feel they really understand the country, they
can't really get to know the people. Is there any possibility of this
breaking down or is the socialist government there taking a harder
line on association with foreigners?
Mr. MLADEK. Mr. Chairman, in the first half of 1968 .it was a little
easier, but in general any contact with the American Embassy in
Prague is very difficult because in front of the Embassy are two
policemen. They are designated for protection of the American diplo-
mats officially, but unofficially they take notice of every Czechoslovak
citizen who visits the Embassy. You can visit the consulate to ask
for a visa or something, but to visit the Embassy, you should be
prepared to be noted by the police.
Mr. Pnnyux. The most dramatic example of that, I think, must
be in Hungary, where outside of the entrance to the American Embassy
in Budapest there are always on guard 24 hours a day Russian sol-
diers, and that is because of the house guest we have at the Embasy
there, Cardinal Mindszenty, who has been there for what-15 years,
or I don't know how long it is now. But they are waiting for the
Cardinal to come out sometime.
When I went in the Embassy, I came out and I was waiting to get
a cab and I noticed the Russian soldiers outside the entrance. One
would stand by the post outside the car and one was in the car, and
every car that would come to the curb, pull up, and let, someone out,
the man in the car would write down the license number of the taxi
coming in. So they keep a pretty good check on who comes in and out
of the Embassy.
Thank you very much, Doctor. Mr. Ichord, have you any questions?
The CHAIRMAN (presiding). Mr. Preyer, I have no questions since
I did not hear the doctor's testimony, but, Doctor, I did want to
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thank you for your appearance before the committee. I will read the
transcript and I apologize for the fact that we were not able to hear
you yesterday as originally planned. I hope we have not incon-
venienced you too much.
Thank you very much.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I have just a few final questions, if I
may.
Dr. Mladek,. when you discussed the freedom which came tempo-
rarily in 1968, I am not sure that I understood what caused this
temporary freedom to come. What eventually happened to it?
Mr. MLADEK. In 1967 there was great tension in Czechoslovakia and
in the fall of 1967 there was sharp criticism in the central committee
of the first secretary, Mr. Novotny. Then in January of '63 at another
central committee meeting, Mr. Novotny was dismissed as first secre-
tary and Mr. Dubcek was elected as the new first secretary.
At that time the intelligensia, especially the Writers Union, the
universities, the majority of teachers, an absolute majority of stu-
dents, began to discuss freely all the political and economic questions.
That means that, they, for the first time, publicly criticized the limi-
tation of freedom in Czechoslovakia and the various conditions of
the economy.
At that time Mr. Dubcek delivered a lot of public lectures. In them
he pointed out that the whole structure of the Czechoslovak economy
had been in bad shape since 1950 and that the central committee could
not resolve all these difficult economic problems. Dubcek proposed a
new economic policy, whose main features were that the market would
be decisive for prices and the planning departments would be decen-
tralized. This means that planning would not be the subjective product
of the bureaucracies, but would reflect the objective needs of the popu-
lation as expressed in the market. They made preparations to institute
this new type of planning, the decentralization of the economy, more
freedom of the individual consumer, and so on. All this was approved
by the central committee because the hardliners were paralyzed. It's
safe to say that two-thirds of the members of the central committee
were prepared to follow this new line.
Everything was ended on the 21st of August of '68 by the Soviet
invasion, and now everything is going backwards, perhaps not to '67,
but I dare say to'58 or something like that.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, how would you assess the prospect of
Czechoslovakia returning to a democratic form of government? Do
you think there is any possibility?
Mr. ML ADEK. No, just now we must be very pessimistic, because now
the Soviets are pressuring the governments in all the socialist countries
to follow quite precisely every wish of Moscow. With their troops in
Czechoslovakia, they won't allow any democratic institutions at this
time.
Mr. SCHULTZ. What do the communists mean by the use of the term
"socialism"?
Mr. MLADEK. Socialism is the first stage of communism, in which you
are rewarded according to your labor. Under communism it is alleged
there will be such a lot of goods that you will be rewarded according to
your needs.
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Mr. ScHULTZ.. I want to ask you why you left Czechoslovakia and
requested asylum in the United States. But first I want to ask you
the question which might reflect on that. What is the greatest influence
in causing persons such as you to flee their country? Is it material
comforts or lack of intellectual freedom?
Mr. MLADEK. Lack of intellectual freedom, not material comforts.
Mr. ScHULTZ. Did this play an important part in your decision to
request asylum in the United States?
Mr. MLADEK. Yes, especially after the invasion when I saw that
every hope which I had of contributing to the liberalization movement
was. gone.. I had made several liberalizing official proposals to Prague
regarding the organization of government, the economy, and the new
foreign policy. Then I saw that everything was lost and that only
the hardliners were on top and that there was a movement to reestab-
lish the conditions there were 10 years ago.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Mladek, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I
have no further questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you again.
(At this point Mr. Preyer left the hearinroom.)
The CHAIRMAN. The next witness I have-on the schedule is Dr. Wil-
liam Kintner, director, Foreign Policy Research Institute, University
of Pennsylvania.
Dr. Kintner, it is a pleasure to welcome you to the committee. Will
you first be sworn, sir.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. KINTNER. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Please be seated, sir.
Dr. Kintner, in the interest of brevity and because of the impres-
siveness of your biographical statement-I am familiar with your
background, your training-I will ask the reporter at this time to
insert in the record a complete copy of your biographical statement.
I think it shows that you are eminently qualified in this particular
field. It won't be necessary to reiterate for the record.
(Mr. Kintner's biographical resume follows:)
Date of Birth:
April 21, 1915, Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Present Position:
Director, Foreign Policy Research Institute, University of Pennsylvania
Professor of Political Science, Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
Consultant to Stanford Research Institute, Palo Alto, California
Education:
Primary schools, Lock Haven and Mill Hall, Pa.
Grade and high school, Westmont, Johnstown, Pa.
Jr. College, Bryn Athyn, Pa.
B.S., U.S.M.A., West Point. N.Y.
M.A., Georgetown University, Washington, D.C.
Pb. D., Georgetown University, Washington, D.C.
Experience:
Twenty-one years of service with the U.S. Army ;
Special Assistant, Commanding General, U.S. Army, France:
Chief of Long-Range Plans (Strategic. Analysis Section Coordination Group,
Chief of Staff, U.S. Army) ;
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Member of planning staff of National Security Council ;
Member of staff of Nelson A. Rockefeller, Special Assistant to the President ;
Consultant to the President's Committee to study the United States Assist-
ance Program (Draper Committee) ;
Senior Advisor, Operations Research Office, Johns Hopkins University.
The Front is Everywhere (Norman, Oklahoma: University of Oklahoma Press,
1950);
Atomic Weapons in Land Combat, co-authored with Colonel George C. Reinhardt
(Harrisburg, Pa.: The Stackpole Co., Military Service Division, 1953) ;
Forging a New Sword in association with Joseph I. Coffey and Raymond J. Al-
bright (New York: Harper, 1958) ;
The Haphazard Years, co-authored with Colonel George C. Reinhardt (New
York : Doubleday & Co., 1900) ;
Protracted Conflict, co-authored with Drs. Robert Strausz-Hup6, James E.
Dougherty and Alvin J. Cottrell (New York : Harper, 1959) ;
A Forward Strategy for America, co-authored with Drs. Strausz-Huge and Pos-
sony (New York : Harper, 1961) ;
The New Frontier of War, co-authored with Joseph Z. Kornfeder (Chicago:
Henry Regnery Co., 1962) ;
Building the Atlantic World, co-authored with Drs. Strausz-Hupd and Dougherty
(New York: Harper and Row, 1963) ;
Peace and the Strategy Conflict (New York: Praeger, 1967) ;
The Nuclear Revolution in Soviet Military Affairs, co-authored with Harriet Fast
Scott (Norman, Oklahoma: University of Oklahoma Press, 1969) ;
Safeguard: Why the ABM Makes Sense, Editor and Contributor (New York:
Hawthorne Press, 1969).
Numerous articles and reviews in prominent magazines, including :
Annals of the American Academy of Political & Social Science
Army
Esquire
Intercollegiate Review
The New Leader
Marine Corps Gazette
Orbis
Reader's Digest
The Reporter
Saturday Review
Yale Review
U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings
Major Areas of Competence:
Lecturer:
Army War College
Air University
Emory University, Atlanta, Ga.
Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge
Inter-American Defense College
Kent State University, Ohio
National Defense College, Kingston, Out., Canada
National War College
Navy War College
Town Hall Seminars, New York
Wabash College
International Relations
National Security Policy
Political-Military Affairs
U.S. Foreign Policy and U.S. Governmental Machinery for Foreign Policy
The Impact of Technology on International Relations
Communist Ideology and Strategy
Communist Organization and Tactics
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Westminster College
Wisconsin State University
University of Maryland
University of Miami
Professional Associations:
American Academy of Political and Social Science
Council on Foreign Relations
The Institute for Strategic Studies, London
Member of the Academic Board, Inter-American Defense College
Editorial Advisory Board, The Intercollegiate Review
National Planning Association, American Political Science Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Board of Trustees, Freedom House
Philadelphia Committee on Foreign Relations
The CHAIRMAN. I understand, sir, you have a prepared statement.
Mr. KINTNER. I do. I can just give it for insertion in the record and
make a. very brief comment on it.
Mr. KINTNER. My primary area of interest is American foreign
policy and in studying this field, of course, I have, had to study. in great
detail the strategies and tactics and organizations of the Soviet Union,
as well as some of the Communist parties throughout the world. My
first book is entitled The Front is Everywhere, on the organization and
structure and tactics of the Communist system.
Throughout the history of the Bolsheviks they had carried on the
imperial power as the tzarist regime, in a sense that )art of the imperial
tradition, but they added something new when thiey substituted the
Marxist dialectic for the Pan-Slavism, which was the major rationale
for the tzarist expansion.
They have always combined the power of the state, in this case the
Soviet Union, with groups that work with them in other countries.
Now it is this management conflict in which I think they have dis-
played a great deal of ingenuity and talent which partially explains the
tremendous increase in their influence since they acquired power in the
Soviet Union in 1917.
My remarks will be in the record, but I think that, it is sufficient to
say my general approach to our dealing with the power and influence
of the Soviet Union in world affairs is explained therein.
The CHAIRMAN. The statement will be placed in full in the record.
(Mr. Kintner's prepared statement follows:)
After its Bolshevik birth, the Soviet Union has maintained the imperialist
drives of ambition of its Czarist predecessor. The Russian people command a
multinational empire which was largely forged by the three hundred years of
military aggression and Byzantium diplomacy.
The Bolshevik takeover in 1917, however, introduced a new dimension into
Russian imperialism. It was no longer undertaken on behalf of Pan-Slavism but
on behalf of the Marxist-dialectic. Prior to their seizure of power, the Bolsheviks
had become quite adept at subversion, propaganda, political warfare, and the
selective use of violence and terror in the pursuit of political goals.
Consequently, once power was achieved, they created the Comintern whose
primary purpose was to recruit adherence to potential fifth columns in many
countries outside their sphere. Simultaneously, they began the development of
their own military-industrial complex. In the last fifteen years, Soviet State
power has perhaps been more important in the expansion of Soviet influence
than those communist parties abroad, which are still basically oriented toward
Moscow. On the other hand, the Kremlin is quite adroit at combining external
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threats and pressures with internal manipulation of societies still outside its
control. It is in this context that one must view the assault of the Soviet Union on
non-communist societies and, in particular, the United States, which remains
the primary target of communist conflict managers.
The Soviet Union has long employed a variety of activities against other states.
Amongst its most valuable instruments has been the local communist party. In
the guise of national origins and working class solidarity, these parties have
executed remarkably dexterous ideological maneuvers. The sum of these maneu-
vers isthe party's capacity to take advantage of legitimate issues for its ulterior
purposes.
The Soviet government understands well that its "discipline" may be of some
advantage over a democratic society's natural fractiousness. Working through
the "working class solidarity" which is the conceptual foundation for the unity
of world communism, the local communist party represents a domestic lever
without parallel elsewhere.
Recent splits amongst the major communist parties, chiefly the Sino-Soviet
ideological squabble; and the Czechoslovakia invasion, have caused considerable
trouble for Western communist parties. In their slavish adherence to the Soviet
Union, these parties have suffered some loss of support. Indeed, the New Left and
others with whom the American Communist Party profess to cooperate, consider
this party "establishment" or "old hat." The Maoist Progressive Labor Move-
ment and Trotskyite groups appear to be working more effectively with the more
extreme factions in the SDS and the Black Power Movement than the Communist
Party, USA. Nonetheless, the party is organized, and has money.
Furthermore, the Soviet government continues to exhibit a good understand-
ing of political debates within the United States, especially those over foreign
policy. In a remarkable recent example, G. A. Arbatov, director of the Institute of
the U.S.A. of the U.S.S.R. Academy of Sciences, wrote an article entitled "Amer-
ican Foreign Policy at the Threshold of the Seventies." (Economics, Politics,
Ideology, No. 1, January 1970, pp. 21-34J, Moscow.) Amongst the factors Arbatov
claims have undermined American foreign policy are: (1) waning of anti-com-
munist fervor in the West; and (2) many Americans no longer believe in the
"morality" of U.S. policy, especially what Arbatov calls "the very right of the
U.S. to dictate' its will to other peoples."
May I point out thatthe New Program of the Communist Party U.S.A. (Second
Draft [revised]. January 1909) is addressed especially to these points? Three of
the six parts of this document (1) depict the U.S. as inherently against true
worldwide working forces, seeking to postpone the ruin of capitalism by anti-
communist hysteria; (2) proclaim solidarity with every legitimate domestic
issue now agitating the United States; and (3) argue that U.S. foreign policy
is based on the immoral concept of "the American Century."
By attempting to align the party with just domestic causes and by creating an
atmosphere of moral revulsion against American foreign policy, the U.S. Com-
munist Party will serve well the "international solidarity" it proclaims as the
guide to its international relations. Furthermore, since the Soviet inspired Com-
munist Party, USA, is linked with the Soviet Union-the main protagonist of
the United States for global influence-it is likely to be with us long after some
of the current revolutionary splinter groups have disappeared.
In May 1902, I wrote an article in Reader's Digest entitled "The Insidious
Campaign to Silence Anti-Communists." It pointed out how the Soviets had
planned a sophisticated propaganda campaign designed to weaken American
perceptions of the Soviet challenge to the United States. Parts of this article,
which are germane to today's discussion, follow :
"In late 1960, eighty-one communist chieftains huddled in Moscow for close
to a month, then issued a startling manifesto which described the anti-commu-
nist movement as `the principal ideological .weapon' of communist opponents and
called on communists around the world to participate in `exposing anti-
communism.'
"On January 6, 1961, Khrushchev summoned before him the elite of commu-
nism's psychological-warfare experts. He told them that the rising anti-commu-
nist movement had to be destroyed and stressed the `necessity of establishing
contacts with those circles of the bourgeoisie which gravitate toward pacifism.'
His most revealing words :
"We must use `prudent' representatives of the bourgeoisie."
"Khrushchev was confident that his international brainwashing apparatus
could carry out these orders. . . . Search was made for political leaders of our
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extreme left who might fall for a made-in-Moscow line, for ultra-liberal newsmen
who would innocently echo communist-inspired interpretations. Finally, the
Kremlin experts on America screened conservatives, singling out extremists
whose intemperance could be counted on to discredit all anti-communists.
"Such communist use of legitimate liberals, conservatives and pacifists should
be a matter of concern, not blame. They are equally victims of the devious mecha-
nism which 60 years of communist experience have perfected for moving the
Party's ideas deep into free societies. This transmission system functions through
four rings, which are `like ripples from a stone dropped in water,' as one expert
puts it. Ring One consists of actual communist fronts linked closely to the
Kremlin. Ring Two is made up of blind pacifists and fuzzy intellectuals who
occasionally aid Red aims. Ring Three nears the mark that Moscow wishes to hit,
the 'innocents': respected citizens who have influential connections but who are
often professional protesters and crusaders, career `cause' people whose idealism
is both genuine and naive. Ring Four is composed of opinion-makers : editorial
writers, news analysts, commentators, preachers, editors, educators. The ultimate
'objective of all this attention is the general public.
"By the time the ripples from a counterfeit idea dropped in the middle of Ring
One finally lap up on the shores of public opinion, it becomes virtually impossible
to separate the innocent carriers from the knowing purveyors. The public at best
is confused, at worst actually hostile to anti-communism. In either case, Moscow
scores a clear gain.
"The primary target is the Pentagon. For, as Senator Frank Lausche, a Demo-
crat from Ohio, has explained : 'If I had to advance communism in the world, I
would urge the destruction of U.S. public confidence in our military men."'
By now, we are all familiar with attacks on the military-industrial complex,
the ROTC, and university research conducted in behalf of -national security.
I do not wish to imply that the communists are solely responsible for the at-
tacks on the military-industrial complex and the campaign against the ROTC,
although it is quite true that anti-militarism has been part of the standard com-
munist attack against opposing societies before and since the Bolshevik Revolu-
tion. As you know, the very phrase-military-industrial complex-appeared in
President Eisenhower's Farewell Address.
The communists have always been adept at exploiting, for their own purposes,
indigenous forces within a target country. Perhaps one way of looking at this
is to examine the SDS. On the surface, the common threads which run through
campus unrest at many universities could point to some kind of organized inter-
national sponsor, whether Moscow, Peking, or Havana-but this cannot be proved.
The SDS does not, in fact, have a single international sponsor. The Doctrinaire
Communist Party, USA, was one of the last dissident groups to recognize the
potential impact of the New Left student revolt. In many instances, the Socialist
Working Party (the Trotskyite wing of communism) and its affiliated Young
Socialist Alliance and the Progressive Labor Party appear to have played a
stronger role in the SDS.
As Gene Bradley pointed out in an article which appeared in the Harvard
Business Review, September-October 1968, entitled "What businessmen need to
know about the Student Left :"
Nothing is simple about SDS. On the one hand, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover
reported in October 1966 that SDS is "a militant youth group which receives
support from the Communist Party and in turn supports Communist objectives
and tactics." On the other hand, the SDS "Port Huron Statement" asserts, "As
democrats we are in basic opposition to the Communist system. The Soviet Union,
as a system, rests on the total suppression of organized opposition. . . . Commu-
nist parties throughout the rest of the world are generally undemocratic in
internal structure and mode of ?action."
Both of the above statements are true. Even as SDS denounces communism as
a "system," it acknowledges and welcomes Communist doctrine and members, as
reI ).rted in the October 7. 1966, issue of its official newspaper, New Left Notes:
"Well, for once, J. Edgar Hoover is right. There are some Communists in
SDS. . . . SDS is an open organization which welcomes all who seek for solu-
tions to the problems of our day."
My primary field is the study of American foreign policy. As part of my studies
I have examined efforts made by the Soviet Union to frustrate American objec-
tives, including the Soviet-inspired Cuban Missile Crisis ; the subsequent build-up
of Soviet strategic forces; the Soviet supported conflict in the Middle East; and
the very substantial support which Moscow has given to Hanoi over the past five
years. While the Soviet Union engages in these enterprises, the internal propa-
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ganda line of the Communist Party, USA, is designed to undermine the support
of the American people for the policies of their government by depicting the U.S.
as a rapacious imperialist power seeking to exploit the rest of the world and, in
the process, keeping the entire earth at the edge of nuclear disaster.
Consequently, I will conclude this statement by summarizing some present
propaganda positions which have appeared in communist publications, including
Political Affairs and the Daily World. According to leaders of the Communist
Party, USA, U.S. imperalism is the most aggressive force in the world; the
U.S. is a dangerous global policeman, directed by capitalist madmen who are
responsible for every world crisis ; the U.S. engages in peace talks but is not
seriously seeking peace; the U.S. major alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization, is a war pact ; and American efforts to stabilize the situation in
the Far East and Southeast Asia are part of our imperialist policy. In Europe
we are accused of Hitlerizing West Germany, a nation preparing for nuclear
war ; in Latin America we are accused of exploiting the masses, while at the
same time urged to again become friends with our good neighbor Castro in
Cuba. Naturally it is we who are responsible for the Middle East crisis. Finally,
we are told that our capacity to threaten world peace will soon disappear as the
power of U.S. imperialism goes into decline. The sources of these quotations
are appended to this statement.
It should be obvious that the above summary of the communist line on cer-
tain foreign policy issues, which can be seen even more graphically in the
appended sources, parallel statements issued by various leftists factions who
oppose most U.S. foreign and security policies. It is impossible to tell whether
these positions were originated initially in some communist propaganda factory
or were picked up from other sources and adapted to communist use. Wherever
they came from, the four ring analogy which I described in my Reader's Digest
article appears to describe the process by which these positions are disseminated
and gain some support in the body politic.
I will close my remarks by thanking you for the opportunity to testify before
this Committee. I will be happy to respond to any questions.
SUPPORTING QUOTATIONS SETTING FORTH CPUSA PROPAGANDA POSITIONS WITH
REGARD TO CERTAIN FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES
1. United States Imperialism Most Aggressive Force in the World
" . U.S. Imperialism remains the most aggressive, war-like force in the
world. It continues its bloody aggression against the people of Vietnam. It
continues its policies of aggression against the people of socialist Cuba. It is
the main force of military, political and economic aggression in Latin America,
Asia, and Africa."-Gus Hall, "Toward Unity Against World Imperialism,"
Political Affairs, August, 1969, p. 4.
"That U.S. imperialists are prone to behave as though they owned the
universe is a fact of life -to which the Soviet negotiators in Helsinki have long
since faced up . . ."-Richard Greenleaf, "International," Daily World, Decem-
ber 9, 1969, p. 6.
2. United States Position of Global Policeman a Dangerous One
". . this noble and edifying mission of U.S. spies and warships is futile.
Neither the North Koreans nor the people in South Korea will be intimi-
dated... .
"The peace forces in the U.S. have the responsibility of forcing the govern-
ment to scrap this futile and dangerous policy of policing the globe and
gambling with the country's very existence."-Daily World, April 22, 1969, p. 7.
U.S. imperialism has stuck its swinish snout into every corner of the
earth. It is today the main police force trying to keep colonized people and former
colonized people in bondage to imperialism."-Claude Lightfoot, "National Libera-
tion," Daily World, December 5, 1969, p. 6.
3. Capitalist Madmen Provoke Crisis After Crisis
"What will it be tomorrow?
"We can be sure it will be something else to heat up the atmosphere, increase
tensions, spread insecurity, and create the kind of psychological situation favor-
able to the grandiose designs of the corporate elite and Pentagon militarists."-
Daily World, April 16, 1969, p. T.
"Hardly a single day goes by without the discovery somewhere in the world of
underground operations by some subsidiary organization of the American
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) : plans for putsches in Latin America, provoca-
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tive espionage flights in the Far East, counter-revolutionary conspiracies in
Europe, political corruption in Africa. The myriad intercontinental army of CIA
agents disguises itself behind a thousand different masks."-Dr. Harold Lange,
"Lift Up Almost Any Rock ...," Daily World, December 4, 1969, p. 8.
4. Aroused Americans Can Change Foreign Policy
"The dumping of Lyndon Johnson has showed what power lies in an aroused
and active people.
"That power today can frustrate Nixon's fascist-smelling plans ; can call quits
to the slaughter in Vietnam, scuttle the perilous AIIM adventure, and compel seri-
ous steps to peaceful coexistence of the capitalist and socialist sectors of the
world."-Daily World, June 7, 1969, p. 7.
" . . A meaningful change in foreign policy will come only when the organized
people of the United States demand and impose it."-Daily World, July 2, 1969,
p. 7.
"If we the people are to demand decent living for ourselves, we must first de-
mand an end to the killing of Asian victims of U.S. aggression. The cry for decent
prices and the cry for peace are the same cry. The plotters of the two assaults are
the same. The monopolies are the enemy, and the people's elected representatives
in Congress must feel the just and indignant demands of the people to clamp down
on the monopolists."- Daily World, September 16, 1969, p. 7.
5. Monopolists and Imperialists Grinding Their Axes in the Peace Talks
"The decision of the White House, of Laird, of the Pentagon is: the killing must
go on, till 'victory.'
"That decision reveals the way in which the Paris peace talks are being carried
on by the U.S. and its puppets."- Daily World, April 3, 1969, p. 7.
"... The Paris negotiations are going to remain deadlocked as, long as the policy
of U.S. aggression continues . .."-"-Make No Mistake About It! People Have
Power to End War," Daily World, November 13, 1969, p. 10.
6. North Atlantic Treaty Organization Lights the Fires of War
"The Nixon administration is consciously adding fuel to the fires of West-
East dissension in Europe, to give NATO a new lease on life when the treaty ex-
pires next month, and to prevent member states from giving notice, as they
have a right to do, of quitting the war pact. Such incendiary activity increases the
perils to the peace of Europe and of our own nation. Daily World, March 22,
1969, p. 7.
"Instead of renouncing force or the threat of using force, NATO militarists,
with U.S. encouragement, are pushing ahead to complete at their December meet-
ing the most rabid threat of force they can devise."-William J. Pomeroy, "U.S.
Stalls at Helsinki, Speeds NATO A-plans," Daily World, November 20, 1969,
p. 10.
7. United States Spreads War Umbrella Over Far East
". . . the President vowed to defend the current corrupt establishment in Thai-
land against both internal and external dangers, while he stood squarely behind
the corrupt and inhuman establishment in Saigon.. .
"Simultaneously, however, Nixon's hatchetman in the State Department, the
frozen-faced Secretary of State William P. Rogers, goes to Tokyo, Seoul, Taipei,
Canberra and Wellington to assure these U. S. satellites and allies that State and
the Pentagon will defend their freedom to the last Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese,
Australian and New Zealander."-Daily World, August 2, 1969, p. 7.
"The U.S. military in South Vietnam has always claimed that the National
Liberation Front is using Cambodian territory to launch attacks on the U.S.-Sai-
gon forces, and to rest and regroup after these `invasions.' The U.S. and Saigon
have used this pretext to justify their attacks, probes, border violations and prov-
ocations. They have put forward a doctrine of 'hot pursuit' (which does not
exist in international law) to give a semblance of legality to current incursions
and a possible future invasion of Cambodia...."-Tom Foley, "U.S.-Saigon Ag-
gression in Cambodia," Daily World, November 1, 1969, p.
"Sato's bosses, already in second place in. the capitalist world, want guarantees
o the
want the assurance that if they falterith over will pull East, their chestnuts out
of the fire."-Daily World, November 21, 1.969, p. 7.
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8. Yankee, Get Out of Vietnam!
. agony or not, the mandate of events and mankind is clear : the war
must end, U. S. forces must pull out, and Vietnam must be Vietnamese, free from
foreign interference."-Daily World, May 14, 1969, p. 7.
11. . . No official in the United States-elected or appointed-should escape
hearing the people's demand for withdrawing our military forces from Viet-
name NOW!"-Daily World, December 9,1969, p. 7.
9. United States Policy in Vietnam Is Brutal
"It is hypocrisy bordering on rank obscenity when Pentagon and State Depart-
ment pundits babble about "humaneness," while simultaneously manufacturing
arguments for continuing the aggression against the Vietnamese, machine-gun-
ning their women and old people, incinerating their children with napalm and
destroying their food with poison chemicals."-Daily World, September 20, 1969,
p. 7.
Songmy is American bourgeois morality in action-it is American bour-
geois morality exported. That murderous morality has become an export com-
modity."-William L. Patterson, "Public Affairs," Daily World, December 9,
1969, p. 6.
10. Revival of West German Imperialism Threatens Mankind
"The interests of the people of the U. S., like those of the people of Europe,
lie in abandonment of the insane dream of restoring capitalism where socialism
exists, of sustaining a Hitlerite regime in West Germany, of preparing for nu-
clear war, and of paying untold billions for this mad course, which enriches
only the warmakers and imperils mankind."-Daily World, April 11, 1969, p. 7.
"The sinister power of the new cartels and conglomerates of the reactionary
mass media such as the Springer monopoly, of the Bundeswehr generals and
militarists, of the several revenge-seeking organizations-this power is still
intact ..."-Daily World, October 8, 1909, p. 7.
11. Corporate Domination of Latin America Building Socialist Resentment
"U.S. corporations extract a huge toll annually from the toil of these mil-
lions ; Latin American industry is restricted to extractive processes mainly and
is deprived of the most advanced technology ; exports languish ; and the gap
between industrial growth and the continent's needs grows ever wider."
The independent, socialist course charted by Cuba is seen increasingly
as a viable alternative to U.S. corporate domination."-Daily World, May 13,
1969, p. 7.
11. . . the rising anti-imperialist tide in the rest of Latin America, increasingly
threatens the domination of U.S. monopoly capital in that area, which it has
long looked upon as its private preserve. . . ."-Hyman Lumer, "Lenin on the
General Crisis of Capitalism," Political Affairs, December, 1969, p. 11.
12. Let's Be Friends with Our Cuban Neighbor
"Confronting the necessity for heightened struggles to defend their elementary
rights from an even more reactionary government, our Party and the masses
of our working people struggle for progress and fight for our country to pursue
a policy of peaceful relations and friendship with Cuba and all countries abroad.
We are greatly heartened by the grand achievements of the socialist revolution
in Cuba."-IU.S. Communists Hail Cuba," Daily World, January 3, 1969, p. 2.
"What good purpose can be served by the U.S. economic blockade of Cuba? .. .
the people of our country could benefit by trade with our socialist neighbor. Cer-
tainly, world peace would be strengthened. To compel Washington to end the
blockade is a prime job for peace-loving Americans."-Daily World, September
6,1969, V. 7.
13. United States Imperialism Inflames Middle East Crisis
"Nixon is no friend of Israel. The Pentagon does not have the interests of the
Israeli people at heart. Israel's hawks will be used to further U.S. interests in
the Mideast just as long as they are useful and then-"-Daily World, July 11,
1969, p. 7.
. Saudi Arabia represents the single biggest foreign investment American
capitalism has, and the U.S. is giving full backing to King Faisal's attempt to
beat back the tidal wave of revolution in the Arab world. Faisal's kingdom has
done a lot to earn its Arab nickname of 'Saudi America.' "-Tom Foley, "Inter-
national," Daily World, December 6,1969, p. 6.
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14. United States-Japan, Imperialist Plunderbund, Zeroes in on Asia
"Japanese imperialism's return to South Korea is well under way. So is the
consolidation of the U.S.-Japanese arm of the international imperialist plun-
derbund... "-John Pittman, "Another Pearl Harbor on Way, Koreans Warn,"
Daily World, September 20,1969, p. 11.
. Japanese public opinion is outraged by Japanese Imperialism's accept-
ance of the role of junior partner--for the time being-in an alliance with U.S.
imperialism directed against other Asian peoples. The attempt to carry out this
role will ... spell the end of Japan's pacifist and neutralist pretensions .. .
and aggravate the war danger in Asia."-Daily World, December 5, 1969, p. 7.
15. United States Imperialism Has Passed the Peak of Its Power
" . the essential fact is that U.S. Imperialism has already passed the peak
of its power, of its relative world position."-Victor Perlo, "Book Reviews,"
Political Affairs, December, 1969, p. 62.
The CHAIItMAN.Mr. Counsel, how do you choose to proceed?
Mr. ScHuLTZ. I have some questions to ask Dr. Kintner.
The CHAIRMAN. Let's proceed in that manner.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Kintner, on May 3, 1969, the Communist Party,
U.S.A., adopted its main political resolution at its 19th National
Convention in New York City. Subsequently the resolution was pub-
lished in a pamphlet entitled "Ile United States in Crisis; The
Communist Solution."
On June 17, 1969, the Communist Party, U.S.A., and 74 other
Communist parties who attended the International Conference of
Communist and Workers Parties in Moscow, sponsored by the Com-
munist Party of the Soviet Union, adopted that body's main resolution.
I would like to address a series of questions to you based upon the
selected passages and marked similarity taken from the main resolu-
tions adopted by the Communist Party, U.S.A., in New York City
and the 74 Communist Parties in Moscow and also some quotes from
Mr. Gus Halls speech at the latter meeting.
There are two or three different areas. The first one is on Vietnam
from the Moscow resolution :
A primary objective of united action is to give all-around support to the heroin
Vietnamese people. The conference calls on all who cherish peace and national
independence to intensify the struggle in order to compel U.S. imperialism to
withdraw its Interventionist troops from Vietnam. The final victory of the Viet-
namese patriots is of fundamental importance. [Italics in original.]
Now from the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution, we see some
similar wording :
Vietnam shows that, given unity of action of these forces, so powerful a state
as the United States can be brought to heel and forced to retreat.
This is on page 11 and on page 28 they say :
The focus of the fight for peace continues to be the fight to drive the forces of
U.S. imperialism out of Vietnam.
Would you please evaluate, as you see it, the purposes of the Com-
munists at the Paris peace talks in light of these two passages selected
from their officiall adopted policies, whereby peace is equated with
increased warfare
Mr. KINTNFI1. This is nothing particularly new. If you go back to
the Sixth World Congress of the Communist Party, meeting in Moscow
in 1928, they did discuss the strategy of peace. They said, in a sense,
that peace under certain circumstances is a more advantageous way of
fighting capitalism than actual conflict.
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So the concepts of using peace as an instrument of expansion is, of
course, well established. On the other hand, being dialecticians, it is
very easy for them to work both sides of the street simultaneously and
it is not incompatible for them to be waging war, on one hand, while
waging peace as a means of undermining the power of their opponents,
on the other.
A typical example of this was in the Korean war wh n, afterittlving
launched it through North Korea and finding the going
difficult, they began the Stockholm Peace Appeal in Europe, which
you may recall received over 5 million signatures. And the fact that
they are able always to present themselves as the primary advocates
of peace while supporting aggression or supporting one side of the
conflict, which they are doing in the Middle East currently, is a
standard technique which the people in the West should by this time
be somewhat familiar with.
Mr. ScHULTZ. What, in your opinion, would be the military and
psychological effect of a U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam?
Mr. KiNTNER. Precipitous withdrawal would be disastrous. It would
undermine the confidence of many peoples in the U.S. commitment.
It would also have a feedback effect in this country. Even those who
are opposed to the war might wake up and find that such an action
would seriously degrade the United States capacity to conduct a
foreign policy of any kind. But, on the other hand, a phased with-
drawal, such as that proposed by President Nixon-the Vietnamiza-
tion-if conducted in such a way that our single objective there is
maintained, namely, the right of the people of South Vietnam to
choose their own form of government, that in the long run would have
a very salutary effect on world stability.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Thank You. Turning our attention just a minute to
Europe, again I would like to quote from the Moscow resolution:
The Conference emphatically condemns the provocative attempts of the im-
perialist powers, particularly the USA, the Federal Republic of Germany and
Britain, to step up the activity of NATO. The disbandment of NATO would be
a decisive step towards the dissolution of all bloc * * *.
It goes on. Then from the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution:
In Europe, NATO's aggressive might is being built up to serve the ambitions
of the Washington-Bann partnership.
* *
The fight . for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from West Europe is an
important part of the fight for peace.
Dr. Kintner, what was the purpose in creating the North American
[Atlantic] Treaty Organization and has this purpose been fulfilled?
Mr. KINTNER. NATO was created as a means of forestalling any
Soviet-inspired aggression against Western Europe. It followed the
organization of the treaty on Western European Union and also
followed the first takeover of Czechoslovakia in 1947 and the Berlin
airlift in 1948. It was realized that unless there could be placed a
security mantle around Western Europe, the aim of rebuilding Europe
economically as in the Marshall Plan would be barred.
Up to the present time it has achieved its mission. There has been
external aggression
no overt world where there aggression has been this freedom from the
of one kind or another.
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Mr. Sciiuvrz. What would you anticipate would be the result if
the NATO Pact were dissolved? Would the U.S.S.R. disband the
Warsaw Pact?
Mr. KINTNER. It might do so as a diplomatic, tactic, but it would
not really affect the situation very much. As a matter of fact the
comments about increased activity in NATO are rather ridiculous,
because, if anything, we will find it very difficult to maintain what
cohesion there has been in NATO in the past. There has been a reduc-
tion in forces; there is currently before the Senate the Mansfield
resolution for serious withdrawal of American forces, and the Euro-
pean forces of NATO are carrying on their own commitments to that
organization. But the aim of the strategy has been the dissolution
of NATO, the quid pro quo which they have offered in various res-
olutions. The Bucharest resolution in 1966, for example, is to have
a simultaneous elimination of the pacts, but there is a fundamental
difference. NATO is an organization of solvent, independent states.
The Warsaw Pact is an organization created by fiat in Moscow, to
which the East European countries have had to adhere.
If the pacts were dissolved, the Soviet Union would still be in
a dominant position over the Eastern European countries, but even
more important, the Soviet Union is itself the primary challenge to
Western Europe, whether it uses its military power or not, and no
single combination or no single nation or combination of nations in
Western Europe could withstand the influence of Soviet power if
NATO were dissolved and the U.S. presence eliminated from Western
Europe, at least for the foreseeable future.
Mr. SciiuLTZ. Is it your feeling that even if the pact were dissolved,
the armies would remain intact?
Mr. KINTNER. There is no evidence to indicate that they would be
eliminated. The Soviet system from its beginning has placed a good
deal of emphasis on the buildup and maintenance of its military pow-
ers. Stalin in '46 referred to the Red Army as the apple of his eye.
If one looks at the level of appropriations for Soviet military forces
for the past 15 years, the allocations have always matched increases
in the gross national product in the Soviet system.
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Kintner,- turning your attention now to the
United States, again from the resolution from Moscow :
We call on all peace-loving forces to mount a struggle for a radical cutback
in military budgets. . . . so as to switch resources now absorbed by the arms
race to improving the working peoples' life, promoting the health services and
education ...
From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution:
Emphasis must also be given to . . . the slashing to the military budget . .
* * . the fight against wilitarism directly relates to the fight for the
urgent domestic needs of the people . . .
Is this an example of the amalgam technique, that is, the juxtaposi-
tion of two concepts, one, desirable and the other undesirable?
Mr. KTNTNER. It is a very interesting example of that technique.
There are, of course, many people who are not communists in this
country who favor retrenchment of our military spending for the very
purposes stated, to deal with urgent domestic problems.
Last summer I testified before the Proxmire committee, which had
as one of its purposes an effort to cut down on military spending. But,
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of course, the communist point of view is somewhat different. They
would like to have us reduce our military posture so our capacity to
stand up against various threats of the Soviet Union would be seri-
ously reduced.
Of course, they figure that by riding this bandwagon, which has a
legitimate basis in this country, some diversion of resources to internal
problems, they naturally have an appealing readymade campaign
slogan and are, of course, trying to exploit it to the fullest extent
possible.
I think 'the key we have here is the ordering of priorities between
our responsibilities in the world scene and our own internal issues.
This is a very difficult and very complex problem. The general point
of view I have is we have to have the country in order to solve some of
its internal problems.
Mr. SCHuLTZ. Would you say this particular arrangement of con-
cepts would put communist adversaries in the worst light? In other
words, if you are not for slashing the budget, you are also not for pro-
viding for the domestic need?
Mr. KINTNER. Not necessarily. There are, undoubtedly, in a budget
as large as ours, things that could be cut. I think the President has in-
dicated that and the Secretary of Defense has indicated that. The
question is the old story, when do you start chomping on the bone after
taking off the fat. So I think a person can legitimately hold to let's
try to make our defense establishment as strong as need be and not on
as astute a basis as possible.
The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, at this point, of course, we are in a field
here which is not directly within the jurisdiction of the committee, but
the Chair happens to serve on the Armed Services Committee, and I
do firmly believe that there are many places in our defense spending
that we can cut and should cut without deprecating our defense.
But the thing that bothers me, whenever the hue and cry goes up
for cutting back on our military expenditures, we often cut out whole
defense programs in response to that rather than really digging into
the details of the problems and taking out the fat in the military
budget, which is always there, which of course is in any budget dealing
with Government spending.
Mr. KINTNER. I think your observation is a sound one. It is a lot
more simple bureaucratically to slash the program than to go into the
guts of the program and say, "Let's stop this or that particular aspect
of it."
The CHAIRMAN. This is what I have watched come about time and
time again when the Congress does start moving into the area to save
money. We cut out the entire program without digging in and taking
out the fat.
Dr. KINTNER. It is a difficult problem.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. Dr. Kintner, drawing your attention to the Soviet
Union as a "peace and power base" for the world Communist move-
ment, I would like to quote from the Moscow resolution and also from
Mr. Gus Hall's Moscow speech. During this speech he informed the
delegates that his party, meaning the Communist Party, U.S.A.-
without a dissenting vote, endorsed -the line, the political issues and the spirit
of the main draft document presented by the Preparatory Committee to the
conference.
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The resolution from Moscow says :
It has been possible to prevent the outbreak of a world war thanks to the
growing economic, political and military might, and the peace-loving foreign
policy of the Soviet Union ...
From Mr. Hall's Moscow speech :
The U.S. . [is] being driven-slowly but steadily-from foreign bases in
one country after another. Contributing to this is . especially the growing
economic, military and political might of the Soviet Union.
From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution :
The Socialist countries and in the first place, the mighty working class state,
the Soviet Union, are the revolutionary dynamos propelling . . . worldwide
revolutionary process.
Since the vast majority of the world's Communist parties, including
the Communist Party, U.S.A., continues to recognize the Soviet Union
as its leader in the cold war, is the polycent.rist or heterogeneous move-
ment concept of the communist leadership valid?
Mr. KiNTNER. To a certain extent it is. Communism is not quite as
monolithic as it was 15 years ago. You have the Sino-Soviet split on
the one hand; you have Tito's revisionism on the other; and Castro is
sort of a maverick in the group. The parties in Eastern Europe, I
think, are in a very subservient position, although Rumania occasion-
ally makes noises of somewhat an independent character. But the
essence of the thing is that the major threats to the free world position
do emanate from the Soviet Union, and the growing power of the
Soviet Union certainly plays a role in it. I doubt very much, for
example, that we would have had the coup in Libya last year, which
has led to the closing of the U.S. Air Force base, if the Soviet fleet
was not present in some strength in the Eastern Mediterranean, act-
ing as a restraint on. whatever alternatives we had.
I don't know what was even considered at the time inside of our own
Govermnent. So the essence of what he is saving is that the tremendous
Soviet buildup in military power-particularly in the strategic field
where their investments for the past 5 years have been roughly twice
as much as ours in round figures, roughly around $15 billion on their
side to $7, $8, and $9 on our side-has produced a condition of at least
psychological parity, which certainly is quite different from the situa-
tion that has existed in 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis. There has
been a major upgrading of Soviet military power which, whether used
or not, does influence the behavior of other states.
Mr. Sciirr.TZ. Contrasting then the power base of the world com-
munist movement within the Soviet Union, the resolutions also point
to the U.S. as a base of world imperialism :
Moreover, the depth of this crisis in the capitalist world is also strikingly
revealed . . . in the United States itself, that main pillar of world imperialism.
From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution :
U.S. imperialism remains the center of world imperialism and the fountain-
head of world reaction.
't'hen from Mr. Hall's Moscow speech :
The U.S. is not only the economic and military citadel of world imperialism.
It is also its political and ideological center.
Dr. Kintner:, in communism's "good guy-bad guy" context, why
has the United States, among the so-called imperialist nations, been
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singled out as the U.S.S.R.'s mortal enemy after coming to her rescue
during the famine of the twenties and providing her with technical
know-how and military aid in the thirties and forties?
Mr. KINTNER. You have to go back to the basic philosophical posi-
tion of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union, and that is that a
system based on the type of economic organization we have, centering
around the right to own private property and the exercise of it, which
is the major means of production outside of the control of the state reg-
ulated by that system, is completely and fundamentally antagonistic
to the basic economic and political organizations of the Soviet Union.
If you read their credos, as I have done many times, there can be no
peace, as they define peace, as long as there are centers which operate
on the general basis as we do. Of course, having now become the
strongest nation on earth, we are obviously the target of their imagina-
tions.
We have not always been that. In the early twenties it was France
and Great Britain that were the major capitalist powers, and Mr.
Hitler's Germany took over the task of being the main imperialist
power. And now the United States in all communist propaganda, and
of course, anyone allied with us, whether it is the West German Gov-
ernment or the Japanese Government, are also described as in the
imperialist camp.
It is it very attractive propaganda line, it is very simplistic and
it is very useful., particularly in the "third world" countries where
many of the leaders have been trained in one form or another of
Marxism. It is very easy to explain the blacklist of their own econ-
omies by saying their economies are in the state they are because they
have been subject to imperialistic and capitalistic exploitation for
hundreds of years. It is a good line from their point of view.
It obviously has no basis in fact, because, if anything, the data from
our whole position in Vietnam would indicate that we have no heart
for being an imperialistic power.
Mr. ScIruLTz. Would you have any comments on the term "peaceful
coexistence" and what that means to the communists?
Mr. KINTNER. "Peaceful coexistence" means carrying on the strug-
gle without necessarily resorting to armed overt violence. You even
have elements of that as it, is taking place in the Soviet support of
Hanoi, on the one hand, ortheir very considerable support to the Egyp-
tians and Iraqis and Syrians, on the. other. But it means the absence
of a conflict in which the Soviet Union is participating with its own
forces. It does not mean, as they frequently say, a cessation of the
ideological battle against us because this goes on. You might describe
it as a very carefully regulated form of conflict in which, from their
point of view for their own reasons and for their own timing, they
do not believe that the resort to their employment of the military force
would be advantageous.
Mr. SCHULTZ. I would like to again quote from the Moscow resolu-
tion with regard to communism's three component forces :
The present situation demands greater militant solidarity of the peoples of
the socialist countries, of all contingents of the international working-class move-
ment and national liberation in the struggle against imperialism. [Italics in
original.]
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From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution :
Vietnam highlights the new world reality-that the determining factor in
world politics is ... the power of the forces of socialism, peace, democracy and
national liberation. * * *
Our party, situated in the very heart of world imperialism, must be the most
active, the most advanced, the most unrelenting of all anti-imperialist forces.
Then from Mr. Hall's Moscow speech :
We represent the most advanced forces of the working class, that class which
history has assigned the task of guiding human society through this, the most
profound revolutionary turning point in mankind's existence. * * *
This turning point has given rise to, and is propelled by a worldwide, three-
pronged revolutionary development that now converges into a single process.
Dr. Kintner, specifically are the "three prongs" of the international
Communist movement composed of the 14 countries currently con-
trolled by an equal number of Communist governments and, two, the
remaining out-of-power Communist and so-called Workers' parties
scattered in scores of countries throughout the free world and, three,
the communist led or supported national liberation movements gen-
erally found in certain, Asian and African and Latin American
countries?
Mr. KINTNER. Those are certainly three components of it. That is, in
a sense, the political order of battle. They do play a generally concerted
role, even when there are differences between them. They still want to
appear united on one common basis, if they could neutralize the power
influence of the United States then their respective chances for advanc-
ing their own power or maintaining their own power position would be
increased.
On the other hand, they believe that the tremendous increase in
Soviet military power has to be recognized as a force which plays a
considerable role in their planning. And, also, I believe the lack of
clarity of understanding of many people in the Western democ-
racies, including the United States, as to the nature of the confronta-
tion in which we find ourselves contributes considerably also to their
own advancements.
Of course, one of their major endeavors is not to necessarily create
the situation, but to exploit divisive situations in any given country
that they do not control for their own purposes. I do not necessarily
believe that they are successful in doing this at all times, but they
continue to make the try.
Mr. SclinL,Tz. Has this approach been taken with regard to Vietnam?
Mr. KINTNER. In Vietnam they have, of course, played a very con-
siderable role there. The Soviet Union has supported Vietnam with
the most advanced and sophisticated equipment that the North has in
its possession to the tune of about $1 billion a year for the past 5 years,
as have the Eastern European countries, East Germany, Czechoslo-
vakia. In particular, the shipping of coal is very prominent in the
harbor of Haiphong, as well as the Soviet Union. So from that point
of view, the resources available to both the European bloc countries
and the Soviet Union have been used to carry it on.
Of course, in the propaganda arena the Communist parties through-
out the world and those national liberation movements, whether they
are officially labeled as communism or not, have taken up the cudgels
in support of North Vietnamese against the so-called American im-
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perialism. This has made it difficult for us to sustain the operations we
are now engaged in in Southeast Asia.
Mr. SCHULTZ. A minute ago I mentioned peaceful coexistence. I
would like to quote from the Moscow resolution :
The policy of peaceful coexistence does not contradict the right of any peo-
ple to fight for its liberation by any means it considers necessary-armed or
peaceful. This policy in no ways signifies support for reactionary regimes.
From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution :
The struggle for peaceful coexistence is a powerful tool in the world class
struggle, for the defeat of the policies of imperialism. * * *
The concept arises out of the existence of two systems of states and of the
international class struggle between them. Peaceful coexistence is a form of
this class struggle.
Now you mentioned that this may not be clear in everyone's mind
what they mean and it could, I am sure, be a form of political tran-
quilizer. Has this policy been used as a propaganda device?
Mr. KINTNER. It certainly has. I have already commented on the
use of peace as another form of the conflict, and if they can project
to the minds of people, particularly those who haven't the time or
effort or training to understand the semantics of the Soviet approach,
it can be quite appealing.
You may recall Khrushchev in his 6 January 1961 speech talked
about the National Liberation Movement, in which he said it was the
sacred duty of the Communists to support it. This again has a long
root in Soviet general strategy, the basic strategy that Lenin laid
down in the form of a common term, namely, that we must withdraw
the rear of imperialism, that is, the underdeveloped areas of Africa
and Latin America, from the capitalism camp.
It is much the same concept as expressed by Mao Tse-tung in the
people's war concept, where the cities of the world are the major
Western industrialized powers and their strategy is the people's war,
which doesnt differ a great deal from the national liberation concept
enunciated from Moscow, which is to, if possible, detach these areas
where there is vast population and considerable natural resources
from any association with the Western industrial powers. This does
give a rationale for the use of peaceful coexistence and, in a sense,
gives a rationale for the conduct of their efforts in these regions.
Mr. ScauLTZ. I would again like to quote from the Moscow resolu-
tion. This relates to communist internationalism and nationalism :
The national and international responsibilities of each Communist and Work-
ers' Party are indivisible. Marxist-Leninists are !both patriots and interna-
tionalists ; they reject both national narrow-mindedness and the . . under-
estimation of national interests ...
From the Communist Party, U.S.A., resolution :
The primary issue is the role of the working class in the struggle against the
evils of monopoly capitalism, and in the struggle for its overthrow. To this end
it is necessary to combat all 'theories which deny this historic role, which ...
incite narrow nationalism in opposition to proletarianism Internationalism.
From Mr. Hall's speech in Moscow, he stated :
We place a high priority on our working class concept of internationalism.
We do not view internationalism as a burden, a concession, or a cross to bear.
Dr. Kintner, has the average American's concept of international
relations differed from ithat of the communists?
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Mr. KINTNER. It differs fundamentally. We believe in international
relations, our relations between nation states, and one should conduct
one's foreign policy with the heads of government.
Now that does not mean that there are not a lot of collateral under-
takings. For example, international incorporations, trade unions, and
so forth, do have ties across national frontiers. But the concept that
they have with the nation state has no empathy in itself with the so-
called international working class, which is a euphenism for the Com-
munist Party can havea higher loyalty.
There is another side to the coin that the conflict between na-
tionalism and internationalism has always been a very profound one,
both in the socialist movements and the communist movement.
The split, at least as far as the recording between Trotsky and
Stalin, was an internationalist and Stalin was a Russian, in this case
a Georgian Russian nationalist. And he wanted to build up socialism
in one country and ignore, for a while, the expansions until the Soviet
Union achieved its power.
So it was essentially that most of the Communist parties outside,
at least those identified with Moscow, still are actually subservient
agents for the Russian brand of national communism rather than
advocating their own.
This, of course, is a generalization which is subject to qualifica-
tion. The French Communist Party, I think, does have some strong
French nationalist elements and would not always do the bidding
of Moscow, and the same is true to an extent also for the Italian Com-
munist. Party.
But from that point of view, I think the record demonstrates that
the Communist Party, U.S.A., has always played an extremely sub-
servient role to the Soviet Union. Of course, there are leaders who
have objected to it like [Jay] Lovestone and [Benjamin] Gitlow and
others, but the present organization headed by Mr. Hall, as your state-
ments indicate, echoes with almost slavish adherence the line
developed in Moscow.
Mr. Sc-ruLTZ. How can a member of the Communist Party, U.S.A.,
then, in view of what you have just said, which desires to overthrow
the U.S. Government and reconstruct American society claim to be
patriotic?
Mr. KINTNER. Their claim, of course, is based on their philosophy
that communism is a higher purpose; that mankind as a whole is much
more important than one people or a one-nation state. And this, of
course, is the utopian delusion which many people who adhere to some
of these beliefs hold.
Marx himself was nota great believer in mankind, but lie had very
little use for human beings. I think this does characterize the members
of Communist parties who say, "My judgment of the world is superior
to that of these poor misguided people who would like to consider
themselves Frenchmen or Canadians or Japanese or Americans or
what-have-you."
Mr. SCHULTZ. Dr. Kintner, for the last 2 days we have been hearing
testimony from people who have defected and requested asylum in
the United States to get away, for the most part, from repression.
You mention that there is a direct connection between Moscow and
the Communist Party, U.S.A., though in some areas they disavow
this. Is this current today?
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We know we have heard testimony why these people have left and
what they find here. Is this the current situation today, the admitted
world-domination desire of Moscow and the carrying out of their ac-
tivities through the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Is that true today?
Mr. KINTNER. I am not sure that I get the essence of your question.
Would you focus it a. little bit more for me.?
Mr. SCHULTZ. We have had indications of connection between the
United States Communist Party with the Communist Party of Russia,
both by resolution here and the meeting of last June. We believe that
there is a connection, and I am asking if this is true, if you have some
evidence to show that there is a connection and that the Communist
Party, U.S.A., is in fact taking orders from Russia'?
Mr. KTNTNER. I have no immediate proof because I anz not in the
inner circles of the Communist Party, U.S.A. By analogy I have
known many former members of the Communist Party, U.S.A.-Mr.
Jay Lovestone, for example; Mr. Joseph Kornfeder; who helped
organize the Communist Party in Venezuela and Colombia, and a
student in the Lenin School in 1929 and 1931 and the coauthor with
me of a book entitled The New Frontier of War, which is an examina-
tion of the political warfare.
I also know Mr. John Gates, who was former editor of the Daily
TVorker in New York until lie left the party after the Hungarian
situation in 1956. From what they have told me, when they were in
the movement, if you didn't toe the Moscow line, you didn't stay up
in the hierarchy very long. In fact, in a short period of time, you were
expelled. Mr. Gates, for example, when he finally became very dis-
illusioned as to what their real goals were, published Khrushchev's
speech, the denunciation of Stalin, in the Daily Worker, and that was
the beginning of the end of him in the Communist Party of the United
States.
You can also, by reason of analogy, know their general position on
issues. As you are reading jointly from the 1969 statement of the
American Communist Party and the subsequent statements of the
so-called Workers' parties in the Communist Party meeting in Mos-
cow a few months later, one does not have to be an expert at content
analysis to see a great deal of similarities.
If one talks the same and one has the capacity to act the same in
normal human understanding and activities, one would assume there
would be somewhat identity of purpose and whether it came about
accidentally or whether there was some connection back and forth of
a financial nature and an organizational nature, one can only
conjecture.
I don't have any specific proof that would hold up before a court
of law on that. But I think that, as a person who has studied the
phenomena for some time, I could reasonably reach a conclusion that
there was more than a coincidental nexus between the Soviet Union
and the Communist Party of the United States.
Mr. ScIIIILTZ. Thank you, Dr. Kintner. In a book which you co-
authored, Protracted Conflict, your opening paragraph, chapter 1,
states:
Protracted conflict is a historical phenomenon. * * * Its strategy derives a
superior understanding of a total historical situation ; the spectrum of revolu-
tionary conflict techniques is as wide as the scale of social change. Within that
spectrum a central intelligence organizes and phases the instruments 'of con-
flict-political, economic, psychological, and military.
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Your book was published in 1959. A decade later in June of 1969
in Mr. Gus Hall's address before the 75 Communist parties in Moscow,
lie made a rather not dissimilar remark, which would tend to confirm
your statement:
The transition from capitalism to socialism is history's greatest happening.
* * * "It is both a historical process and a current event, precisely because it is
a total shift in the way of life." * * * "This process is explosive-it is revolu-
tionary. It is a many-sided process-economic, political, military and ideological."
Are the remarks from chapter 1 of Protracted Conflict valid today?
Mr. KINTNER. Oh, I think they are. As a matter of fact, we revised
the book in 1963, I believe, and in that 4-year lapse there were a few
things that we would change, but not the essential analysis that the
world is going through a systematic revolution. There is a major re-
ordering of what is going to be in the year 2000.
It is very difficult to perceive, it is very much like the Greek city-
states which collapsed into what later became the Roman Empire and
the Roman Empire collapsed to the feudal system and out of the
feudal system came the modern state system.
We are living in a revolutionary age. Now what the Communists
have done, they didn't create this situation. It is a result of many
factors, technology, communications, the greater contact of peoples
with each other. But having a professed revolutionary goal, they
seek to exploit it and try to shape this development in their own
interests and they have always used all of the instruments of per-
suasion and power, force, propaganda, subversion, espionage, the
many activities which are orchestrated by them into a comprehensive
plan of campaign.
I would say that Mr. Hall's statement is reasonably precise as to
how they are trying to advance the cause to which he adheres.
Mr. SexuLTZ. Is the United States, in your opinion, conducting
counterconflict techniques in a protracted campaign commensurate
with the spectrum of revolutionary conflict faced by the free world?
Mr. KINTNER. I would not say that it is. For many, many years I
have argued that we should see things in the round. I don't mean we
should in any way emulate many of the Communist tactics and so
forth, but in' this day and age there is no such thing as a military
strategy, per se, or a political strategy, per se, or an economic activity
which does not have security and a political consequence. In the con-
flict thus far the fact that the Kremlin conflict managers do perceive
the organic relation of these various instruments does, in my opinion,
give them a rather major advantage.
Now I think there have been efforts on the part of the United States,
and some of them very successful, to try to approach things in a more
systematic way. The National Security Council. for example, in its
various forms in evolutions-I am not talking about the present one
or some.. of the past examples of it-has been an attempt to tie to-
gether our diplomacy and our security policies and our fiscal policies,
bai nee of payment problems, and so forth, in a more coherent fashion.
I think we are groping and have been groping for these past 20 years
to achieve better coordination of the utilization of the instruments of
influence that this Government has. But I personally believe that we
have some way to go.
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I think, for example, in Vietnam we have the overutilization of
military force, per se, and not enough understanding of the psycholog-
ical and cultural aspects of the struggle, which has been a deficiency.
I just only regret that, despite my own rather small individual efforts,
there are not enough Americans in positions to influence policy who
do visualize the inner connection of these forces.
Mr. ScxuLTZ. What do you think we can do to correct this situation?
Mr. KINTNER. Understanding is the beginning of wisdom, and I
think the more people who will do their homework, just as your com-
mittee is doing here, to really study the activities, the doctrines, the
strategic concepts of our opponents would be very, very useful.
I have been engaged for a number of years, for example, in a study
of the strategic interrelation between ourselves and the Soviet Union,
and I must confess that the Soviet strategy, in my opinion, is more
rational than what we moved into under Secretary McNamara's regime,
the so-called mutual suicide pact.
Their concept is to preserve the Soviet Union as a national entity.
I hope we will never get into a nuclear war, but the capacity to have a
more rounded position may give the Soviet Union the edge in a crisis
situation, which would be unfortunate.
I am. not derogating Mr. McNamara in any way. I am certain he is
very intelligent and a very committed individual, but his strategic
concept is A at I am. getting to. It seems to me to have been inadequate,
because he failed to understand the mental processes of the opponent.
We have so many people in the United States who talk about the
mirror image, that the Soviet Union is operating on the same concepts
and ideas that we are. I don't think that is the case. They have a dif-
ferent approach. The only way you can find out what it is, is to study
it intensively and then see how they apply what appears to be their
doctrine in actual practices.
If you do that, I would go on record as saying they approach mat-
ters in many ways on a fundamentally different basis than we do. And
because of the nature of the world in which we are, We would, I think,
make an error if we failed to try to understand the differences that
exist between their world view and their operational principles for
dealing with the world as they perceive it, which is different than we
do. '
Mr. ScriuLTZ. Dr. Kintner, would you comment on the relationship
of the party and the government? We notice in some of the official
treaties that these are signed not only by government officials, but also
by party officials.
Mr. KINTNER. When the Soviet state was set tip, the Communist
Party was the dominant political force and still is. The key people
in the party essentially are the policyrnakers. You might make an
analogy if our National. Security Council at the top was a government
and actually set the policy for the departmental heads, then you would
have the situation that they have there. For example, Gromyko is the
Foreign Minister of the Soviet Union. and yet the policies he executes
are determined by the Politburo and he is not a member of the Polit-
bnro. On the other hand, as the years have gone by, the clean separa-
tion of the party and the first secretary from the governmental ap-
paratus no longer exists.
Kosygin is essentially the economic manager of the Soviet Union,
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4714
even though he is a member of the Politburo, and he is a member with
Brezhnev and the party hierarchy. I think the lines are not quite as
distinct in some of the European countries as they used to be. Essen-
tially the mechanism that the party is all dominant, that is permeates
and pervades all aspects of government as well as economy, cultural
matters, and so forth, is still maintained in the sense then that you
have a one-party system, which has the monopoly of power, and the
membership of the party is, as you know, not universal. It is a rela-
tively small number of people compared to the population as a whole.
It still is the unique contributions which the communists have made to
the political organizations.
Mr. SCHULTZ. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Kintner. In that respect
I was very interested in your comments about developments within
the governing hierarchy of the Soviet Union. Of course, one of the
many differences between our system of government and that govern-
ing the Soviet Union is that the Soviets have worked out no orderly
system of succession.
Here we have an orderly system, and every time the term of an ad
ministration approaches, we find parties and people beginning to
crank up the operation of trying to win friends and influence people
by the use of public relations firms, news media, creating images which
the people would accept.
There it seems to be a matter of mustering sufficient muscle to obtain
power. We are 50 years from the Bolshevik revolution, and tip to this
point it appears that of the old Bolsheviks who maintained pretty
stringent control of party machinery, Kosygin and Brezhnev are
among the last of the old Bolsheviks. Where do we go from here?
Would you care to speculate on what the developments will be?
Mr. KINTNER. Well, they have, as you know, created something
called the Higher Party School. and there is generally about 100 to
150 of what you might call middle-level bureaucrats as well as party
members in it.. They are given a very rigorous course, about 3 years,
on all aspects of the dialectic and their concept of state organiza-
tion, concept of economic planning, and matters of that kind.
From this rank, from this group rather, you get the candidates for
the Politburo. And I would assume, after Brezhnev and Kosvgin
go, that the group that I just mentioned will provide new members
for the Politburo and will get continuity in the evolution.
It seems to me it would be very difficult. for a person who aspires
to political power in the Soviet Union. which is up though the whale
communist heirareluy, the Komsomol and the Young Communist
League and so forth and so on, that he is not going to deviate in any
considerable way from the heritage that lie has been. inured to and
also that he has committed himself to.
Frequently, we use the analogy it would be very difficult, for ex-
ample, for a leader in. the Soviet Union to get iii) one clay before
the Politburo and say, "I have been reading this Marx and Leninism
fora long time and I think it is really an archaic hangover from the
10th century and I think we ought to try something else."
It is almost impossible for that to take place. It. does not mean that
there are not forces at work in the Soviet Union who are very op-
posed to it, like rAndreil Amalrik, the man who recently prophesied
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4715
a revolution about 1980. I think over the long run the system, based
on a very sophisticated type of coercion now, a monopoly of power
by a very small group, will probably run into serious difficulties.
The CHAIRMAN. In such a situation where you have no orderly sys-
tem of succession, it would appear to be an ideal situation where the
military could move in. Is the party machinery keeping firm discip-
line over the military?
Mr. KINTNER. As far as I gather, it is. You must remember that cer-
tain senior members of the military have been part of the central
committee. I think there are about 10 of them in there at the present
moment. The military has not adopted an independent role. Es-
sentially they work out thier general defense planning and so forth
in very close concert with the Politburo, and I would say that they
have a reasonably happy role. Their Minister of Defense, now Mar-
shal Grechko, for example, is equivalent to our Secretary of Defense
in this country, I do not see that as a problem.
I do think your first point though, that there is no legitimate means
for the transfer of power, can lead to serious battles for succession.
We had that, of course, after Stalin died, when you had the Beria
execution in his conflict with Malenkov. This may occur again.
The other thing which I think is worth bearing in mind is when
Khrushchev denounced Stalin, he denounced essentially the whole
communist system, because Stalin always acted in the all-seeing and
all-knowing eyes of the Politburo in the Communist Party. Then to
have the leader denounced as a criminal and a person who placed him-
self above any normal human restraint, I think, did have a very dis-
ruptive effect on the movement in the Eastern European countries and
also inside the Soviet Union itself.
It is interesting and you are probably aware that there is a campaign
to rehabilitate Stalin going on there now, because otherwise you would
have a break in history, what happened after Lenin died ana until Mr.
Khrushchev took over.
I think they do have serious problems of this type, because they
commit themselves to the ideology and they also commit themselves
to this belief in the omniscience of the party. And if the party is such
a remarkable instrument, how can you occasionally find a leader who
had the obvious deficiencies which Stalin demonstrated?
.So I think it may well be, and nothing in politics, as you know, is
predictable, that in one of these necessities of transfer of power that
there may again become a real struggle within the ruling group itself
for leadership, which could create opposing factions and might bring
about a time of very serious political trouble inside the Soviet Union.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, it is now 20 minutes after 12. I want to
thank you again. Dr. Kintner, you made a very valuable contribution
to our record.
With that, the committee will be in adjournment until further call
of the Chair.
(Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., Thursday, June 25, 1970, the committee
adjourned, to reconvene at the call of the Chair.)
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INDEX
Albright, Raymond J------------------------------------------------.- 4695
Amalrik, Andrei----------------------------------------------------- 4714
Arbatov, G. A------------------------------------------------------- 4697
B
Bradley, Gene------------------------------------------------------- 4662,4476194
Brezhnev (Leonid)-----------------------------------------------
C
Callejo, Emilio C------------------------------------- 4648-4655 (testimony)
Castro, Fidel----------------------------------------------- 4651, 4654, 4699
Coffey, Joseph I----------------------------------------------------- 4695
Cottrell, Alvin J----------------------------------------------------- 4695
D
Daniel (Yuli M.) ---------_ ------ 4668
-------------------------------------
Dougherty, James E------------------------------------------------- 4695
- 4693
Dubcek (Alexander) ------------------------------------------------
E
Eisenhower (Dwight D.) ---------------------------------------------- 4698
F
-- ----------------------------------------- - -- ------- 4701
Faisal --------------------------------------------------------------
Flidr, Monika---------------------------------------- 4032-4648 (testimony)
Foley, Tom------------------------------------------------------ 4700, 4701
G
Gates, John--------------------------------------------------------- 4711
Gitlow, Benjamin---------------------------------------------------- 4710
4715
Grechko
----------------------------------------------------------- 4699
Richard------------------------------------------------- 4699
Gromyko (Andrei A.) ------------------------------------------------ 4713
H
Hall, Gus----------------------------- 4699, 4702, 4705, 4706, 4708-4710, 4712
Hoover, J. Edgar---------------------------------------------------- 4698
J
Johnson, Lyndon----------------------------------------------------- 4700
K
Kandinsky --------------------------------------- ------------------ 4670
Khrushchev, Nikita----------------------------- 4669, 4697, 4709, 4711, 4715
Kintner, William R-------------------- 4677,4694-4696,4696-4715 (testimony)
Kornfeder, Joseph Z------------------------------------ 4667,4676,4713,4711
Kosygin (Aleksei N.)-----------------------------------
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L
Page
Lange, Harold------------------------------------------------------- 4700
Lausehe, Frank------------------------------------------------------ 4698
Lenin, V. I------------------------------------- 4669, 4680, 4701, 4709, 4715
Levin, Alexey Vasilyevich_____________________________ 4657-4677 (testimony)
Lightfoot, Claude---------------------------------------------------- 4699
Lovestone, Jay-------------------------------------------------- 4710, 4711
Lumer, Hyman------------------------------------------------------- 4701
M
Malenkov (Georgi M.)----------------------------------- ............. 4715
Mansfield (Mike) ---------------------------------------------------- 4704
Mao Tse-tung-------------------------------------------------------- 4709
Marx (Karl)___________ __ 4669,4680
Masaryk (Thomas G.)-------------------------------------- ---------- 4681
McNamara (Robert S.) ----------------------------------------------- 4713
Mladek,Jiri ------------------------------------------ 4679-4694 (testimony)
N
Nixon (Richard) --------------------------------- - - - --- - 4703
Novotny (Antonin) ---------------------------------------------- 46K 4693
P
Patterson, William L_________________________________________________ 4701
Perlo, Victor--------------------------------------------------------- -4702
Pittman, John --------------------------------------------------------- .4702
Pomeroy, William J-------------------------------------------------- 4700
Portell-Vila ---------------------------------------------------- 4648-4655
Possony (Stefan T.) -------------------------------------------------
4695
Proxmire (William) --------------------------------------------------
4704
R
Reinhardt, George C--------------------------------------------------
4695
Rockefeller, Nelson A------------------------------------------------
4695
S
Scott, Harriet Fast--------------------------------------------------
4695
Serov (Vladimir)-----------------------------------=--------- --
4671
Sinyavskiy (Andrei D.) ----- ----------------- ------------
4668
Stalin (Josef)---------------------------------------------- 4710, 4711,
4715
Strausz-Hupe, Robert------------------------------------------------
4696
Tito (alias for Josip Brozovich ; also known as Josip Broz) --------------
4706
Trotsky (Lev, Leon) -----------------------------------------------
4710
ORGANIZATIONS
A
Academy of Arts (U.S.S.R.) ------------------------------------------
4671
Academy of Sciences (U.S.S.R.) ---------------------------------------
4697
C
Communist Party, Cuba------------------------------------------ 4651,4653
Communist Party, Czechoslovakia_______________________ 4637, 4643, 4680, 4687
Communist Party, France-------------------------------------------- 4710
Communist Party, Italy ----------------------------------------------- 4710
Communist Party of the United States of America---------------------- 4675,
4697,4698,4703,4705,4706,4708-4711
Nineteenth National Convention, April 30-May 4, 1969, New York City_ 4702
Communist Party, Soviet Union ----- 4658,46;-)9,4669,4673--4675,4687,4707,4711
Politburo --------------------------------------------------- 4713-4715
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Czechoslovakia, Government of
Page
Legal Advice Bureau (Prague) -----------------------------------
4682
Ministry of Finance, Foreign Division------------------------- 4682,4683
Czechoslovakian Youth Party-----------------------------------------
4639
International, III (Communist) (also known as Comintern and Interna-
tional Workers' Association)
Sixth World Congress, July 17 to September 1, 1928, Moscow---------
4702
International Conference of Communist and Workers' Parties, June 5-17,
1969, Moscow------------------------------------------------------
4702
K
Komsomol. (Sec Young Communist League, Soviet Union.)
M
Moscow Institute of Physical Engineering-----------------------------
4658
NATO. (See North Atlantic Treaty Organization.)
National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (NFL) ------------
4700
North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) --------------------- 4703,
4704
Progressive Labor Movement (PLM) (or Party (PLP).) ----------- 4697,
4698
Progressive Labor Party (PLP). (Sec Progressive Labor Movement.)
Red Army (Russian). (See Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Govern-
ment of, Ministry of Defense, Army.)
SDS. (See Students for a Democratic Society.)
Sixth World Congress of Communist Parties, (See entry under Interna-
tional, III (Communist).)
Socialist Workers Party---------------------------------------------- 46982
Young Socialist Alliance------------------------------------------ 4698
Sparkle ------------------------------------------------------------- 4639
Stockholm Peace Appeal. (See World Peace Appeal.)
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) ----------------------------- 4698
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Government of
Defense (War), Ministry of
Army ------------------------------------------------------- 4704
United Nations
Czechoslovakian Mission------------------------------------------ 4679
United States Government
National Security Council------------------------------------ 4712, 4713
i At its national convention held in New York City, April 15-18, 1905, the Progressive
Labor Movement changed its name to Progressive Labor Party.
2 Appears as Socialist Working Party.
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iv
V
.
Page
Venceremos Brigade--------------------------------------------------
4652
World Peace Appeal (also known as the Stockholm Peace Appeal or
Petition) ----------------------------------------------------- --
4703
Young Communist League, Soviet Union (Komsomol) ---------------- 4658, 4714
Young Pioneers (Czechoslovakia) ------------------------------------- 46,39
Young Socialist Alliance. (See entry under Socialist Workers Party.)
Front is Everywhere, The (Kintner) ----------------------------------
46.96
New Frontier of War, The (Kintner & Kornfeder) ----------------------
4711
Protracted Conflict (Kintner, Strausz-Hupe, Dougherty & Cottrell) -- 4711,
4712
O
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