AN INTERVIEW WITH KING HASSAN II

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75-00149R000100350006-0
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 2
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 1, 1999
• Sequence Number: 6
• Content Type: OPEN

Prom: Heel u. 'c:a, ~ `.. ..._ , , - -
ilways el!
What worric?, y =~ about Morocco. One canno ct t rr , o, r v t}, c i c wars it will be too late.
store than o? EceO + ele e g00t1t/nd you G~Ililk' 'I tidal with your present rela-
nore than the gap i%,,.cen production and comes up an you arc discre itc d
go through a three- [ions with France?
others
o man
f lik
,
y
e s
more than the training o
then a three year Amer-
r Soviet period
i
,
s yea
,lnc.,ted. manpower, what worries me
-It Mtoibcco sci?*ms to be losing her per- ican period. This Year I have been both to
,onality. There are a great many mothers Moscow and to America but each govern-
, ho do not even teach their children Arabic. ment is fully informed of my
.t/hen I hear one of them speaking French
-o her little boy I see red. What's the use Does the constitution;, ,iLuation in Moroc-
,f bringing up my own children to remain co have any repercussions on your foreign
"Moroccan if their environment isn't to relations?
-,:main so? They will be like foreigners, You mean the monarcl;v? That's merely a
.I,cy ,v;11 stand out like sore thumbs. . . . matter of semantics. Though I may be a
king, the separation of powers exists in
In your opinion, what is the world's major this country. I know many republics in
,problem? Africa and elsewhere where the president
t he gap-far too wide--between tt .' strong influences or modifies court decisions.
-and the weak, the rich ano the poor. i would Naturally, since I am a blood cousin of
Add: between the educated and the illiterate. Hussein of Jordan, this link creates affinities
A country like aline always faces it vicious and spares us vain quarrels. The same is
-circle. Its not money we lack-we can true of the traditional links we maintain
always find ii I we pay enough interest on with the kingdom of Arabia where every
it. It's brains. . ask for a loan for a dam. Moroccan goes as a pilgrim and where a
We're told: ",S.-.,w us a specific project." large number of Moroccans are living. Iraq
tine . . . but w::ercare the technicians to has never behaved equivocally towards us.
draw it up'! Weil, if isles dam is not built, With other countries, like Tunisia, Algeria
then so much less hard cur:-ency will enter and the UAR, we do not have family ties
the nation's treasuy. And we will not be but we do have conventions and exchanges.
able to train so many more technicians nor 'Of all the Arab countries, it is only with
we have severed all relations,
draw up plans for a new dam. Syria diplomatic.
While some people may choose to live
their private lives on it wave of emotians.
relations between two countries are like
a marriage of two peasants; it is strength
and stability that matter. Those are the
kinds of relations that I have always wantct
France and Morocco to enjoy. But it's no
easy. France loved this country so mucl
that a climate of permanent spite has bee
created. This keeps relations emotional
Yet isn't 'France still your privileged ally
As far as the West is concerned and to th YRGHT~'
extent that an alliance requires long p .'
chological preparation, it is obvious tha
we are best prepared to live together wit
France. 't'here is a constant factor in oil
relationship with her. But this consta
must be made to bear fruit.
Will the Ben Barka affair have lasting e - FOIAb
fects on relations between you and Franc .
h '
Two dangers threaten a head of state:
can either become too old for his job or
blinded by personal quarrels. As far as I
am concerned, I never personalize my qua -
rels where heads of state are involved..
I will state, therefore, that the present
Will the gap between rich and poor coun-
t.ties widen to the point of a world war? How do you feel about the "Arab nation"?
No. War is impossible to the extent that I respect the Moroccan and Moslem ori-
poor countries do not manufacture heavy gins of my people, I practise my religion and
:,rmaments. And if China started something I recognize that Arab. countries share a
on her own she would be beaten. common language and religion. But no
man in his right mind could imagine that
Among all problems of government, which we could be a nation. We have neither the
attract you the most? same frontiers, nor the same nationality,
In every man you will find a man of action, nor the same legislation, nor the same flag.
man of reflection and, quite simply, a
man. In my case, the man of reflection is ' What path do you think will lead a semi-
drawn to foreign policy problems and con- feudal country like Morocco to happiness?
stitutional matters. But there is domestic Morocco a feudal country? Can you give
policy to be wrestled with; this involves me the names of ten Moroccan millionaires?
simplifying the administration, getting the Morocco is a rich country with poor in-
economy off the ground and encouraging habitants. Why, there are more than 700
social expansion-and there you have ac- millionaires in the city of Dusseldorf alone,
Lion. Then there is the man who is neither and yet people call a country like ours a
beast nor angel and who takes stock every caste society when we don't have even ten.
night without waiting for the verdict of Are you deriving any benefit from the
history on a given incident. Chinese experiment?
k "t of our time? You know. China has always been very
o
a y
What to es up m
Economic problems. Morocco must take remote and very mysterious. They have
off, but the plane is heavy, it's an old model their way of approaching problems and we
without automatic controls. It takes work. e ours. for possibility of have dby the Chinese at some fubeing
ture
Does Morocco's economic situation force date, I think that is a problem like death.
you to make certain international choices Since I can't do anything about it, why
and friendships? should I waste time thinking about it?
I never forego my freedom of action. Moroc-
co is a proud country. As early as the days What sort of relations do you want to estab-
of the Abassids, she preferred to burn her , lish with Europe?
bridges with the peoples of the East rather There is nothing better than bilateral rela-
than become a vassal. tions with individual countries. But Europe
has given us no choice in the matter. It has
Some claim you practise a seesaw policy already formed its community, which in-
towards countries that provide you with aid. cludes Algeria but excludes Tunisia and
Morocco. Then how much leeway do we
Tnirry-six-year-old Hassan, 11 is the seven-
rerrrth sovereign of the Alouite dynasty of
,
cou
re
So the Mag
,11 ?rocco. After independence in 1956, he
suet c'ssively became army chief' of staff, rocco and Tunisia-must unify their plan- attention to the rockers or the simply s mhay
minister of defend W We r IQt~-Rkd~t~tsen~{~08,ip7 6u OMAC IF5POW1 '9F o1 bf~ ~`e0 instead. cabinet of his father, M.,hanuned V. He suc- economies being competitive. nt [cation a p s have abdicated all authority
ceeded to the throne on February 26, 1961. of the Maghreb would be unthinkal-s over their children. If my son had gone on
have? Each of us cannot do it alone; it
would mean going in through the back door.
Mo-
ntries-Algeria
h
b
conflict between France and Morocco s
on a government level. The situation s
very serious, yet it could have been avoide .
French law. like ours, forbids the extra i-
tion of the nationals of either country. n.
the other hand, each government can jud e
a crime committed on its territory and
transmit the case to the nation concern .
There are at least two anomalies in t c
Ben Barka affair. First of all, the very id --a
of bringing the minister of a foreign coup 'y
to trial in a French court is it legal a d
diplomatic blunder. This had never occur d
before in the annals of history and, bets e
me, France will not set any precede t.
Secondly, charges were made against O if-
kir, a Moroccan citizen who was on Mon c-
can soil. France should have passed he
case on to Moroccan judges while dema d-
ing that everything be brought to light I
had agreed to this. 'But De Gaulle, ins[ ad
of calming Morocco's sensibilities, deci ed
to try my minister in absentia, which is
absolutely unthinkable.
No matter what proofs there maybe, he
chief judge should have declared him elf
incompetent . . . if he had been free to do
so. We were put before a dilemma. Si Ace
De Gaulle had reached his verdict be re
the court had reached its, either the c curt
had to repudiate De Gaulle or else ur
relations would continue to deteriorate for
a very long time to conic.
What were the repercussions of
Barka affair on life in Morocco?
The only major demonstrations came in the
form of student strikes. We have 500 fe er
students this year than last because icy
went on strike instead of studying. You ce,
everyone has his own way of beconii g a
 null have slapped him specially
td told him: "Go back to school."
nat kind of role do you wish to play in
the Maghreb and in the world?
I believe that, to be appreciated, one does
not have to tie eccentric or display interna-
tional tits of temper or provoke scandals
that can be stifled later. If you can manage
to settle your own problems by being bold
and realistic, you will gain the affection
and esteem of everybody. But it is a mistake
to be too ambitious when you are not in
fuil control. What can I hope to achieve in
the Maghreb? I am only a third of a whole
here. I can facilitate overall solutions by
improving our economic structures. To
achieve political unity of the Maghreb, we
need a Minimum of economic unity.
Look at the Six: monarchies and republics
hang together thanks to a common dose of
free enterprise. If a Maghreb country decid-
ed to nationalize foreign trade, could I then
preach the free movement of goods and
people? If one country has free enterprise
and another kolkhozes, on what basis can
we unite? Algeria is in the Common Market,
she has bilateral agreements with France,
and reconversion is impossible. How can
we draw closer to her? That's the kind of
problem we face.
What do you think, of Algeria's evolution?
'There is always a possibility of agreement
before one reaches the point of no return.
My father used to say: "My son, it is as
important to be cautious in foreign policy
as it is to be bold in domestic policy." It's
like fights between husband and wife. The
first time they forget it, the second time it's
harder to take, the third time they sleep in
separate rooms. At present, Algeria is our
biggest problem. We have serious territorial
and legal differences, and I do not yet see
any basis for a settlement. One must put
one's self in the Algerians' position. Over-
night, they had a thousand and one problems
to settle and the elite that could have helped
solve them moved away. They are my
neighbours and I wish them well. But why
should I have somebody else's flies and
insects in my home?
Are they right to socialize their economy?
Certainly, this is a necessity, but on condi-
tion that they do not socialize ways of think-
ing or doing things. I, too, have nationalized
the export of farm produce. People raised
an uproar but, this year, seventy forward-
ing agents will' not split between them
$140,000,000 in hard currencies. Instead,
receipts are financing a dam and social
programmes.
he is a wise man, perhaps a socialist despite
himself. I told hint: "If you have a problem,
you can put it to me but don't count on me
to follow you blindly." After all, what can
he offer me'? I don't sacrifice my freedom
for hard cash, so why would I sacrifice it
for nothing at all?
What do you think of the existence of the
State of Israel and the problem of the
Palestine refugees?
For the past twenty years the Arab coun-
tries have been ruining themselves in
armaments because of Israel instead of
using that money to help raise their living
standard. Our logic and our way of ap-
proaching problems are different. I tell
them: "If you want to fight a war, fight it
now, right away. Don't wait until Israel
gets the atom bomb. You are 100,000,000
against 5,000,000."
Given the close relations between the
Arab countries and Morocco, their problems
are ours. With regard to Israel, we are a long
way from the centre but we are still within
the circle. That there will one day be a clash
with Israel seems inevitable to me. That
Israel will disappear as a state after this
clash is not as inevitable. As for the Pal-
estine refugees, I am for the UN's solu-
tion: they must be given their rights.
Will Morocco feel threatened if Israel has
the atomic bomb?
Yes, by a process of recoil, because of
Arab solidarity. But on the other hand, I
think that the greater the number of coun-
tries. who possess atom bombs, the better
off we will all be. Fear is the first step
towards wisdom. When everyone has his
own little bomb, it will be banned like
poison gas.
Will Morocco have a bomb, too? No, it's
too expensive; it would be madness. What
I mean is that if thirty out of 100 countries
in the UN had the bomb, then the others
would have nothing to worry about.
What does the exercise of power represent
to you: a mission or a passion?
Of all your questions, this is the one that
interests me most. Mission and passion
are two terms that go hand in hand. A man
who does not have a passion for his mis-
sion cannot fulfill it. Look at the great mis-
sionaries in history. In each of them, there
was the innate and the acquired. I was born
with passion and my father completed my
sense of mission.
We have a country to build. How can
this be done without passion'? I am deeply
aware that, in my country, everyone from
a cabinet minister to a stationmaster can
What are your relations with President Nas- resign tomorrow; 1 cannot.
ser? What do you think of him?' My shop is always open, there is no clos-
Nasser came to see me last year and we ing time. "I haven't slept late since my
settled our differences. He admitted that, father's death. If the shutters stay closed
d until noon the irroltr-crni squats people say
we
,
h
h
For the past year Morocco has been living
in a state of emergency. What reasons led
you to suspend the normal operation of
institutions?
In two years. I was given only two laws
for approval. At that rate, we would be up
to our fifth law by now. The reason is that
there was a sterilizing factor within parlia-
ment, created no doubt by the division of
parties into a mosaic from which no impor-
tant group emerged.
When will the state of emergency end?
That's a trade secret.
What kind of regime will be set up by the
new constitution you envisage?
In Morocco the monarchy is not just for
show but a vital necessity for the people.
It is the sole factor for unity. We do not
yet have the national reflex of a developed
country. Society here is based upon power
that has a name, there is a plaque on the
door, family feelings exist between king
and people. Why ignore this? I shall institute
a constitutional monarchy, but obviously
not on English or Scandinavian lines. We
have not yet reached this point. I shall
maintain the plurality of political parties.
Parliament will exist but its obligations to
the voter will have changed. Its members
will study laws and put up proposals. But
I shall have eliminated the possibility of
neutralization, for the king will arbitrate
between the government and parliament.
In fact, will this be a direct democracy in
which the king will go to the people over the
heads of the parties as at present?
Yes. There can be no intermediary between
the king and the people. That would break
the family tie. I believe that political parties
are useful to provide leadership, to spread
the good word and to make the people
aware of priorities. I repeat, I am for polit-
ical parties. I know the members of the
parties. Some of them taught me national-
ism; with others l was a comrade-at-arms.
I would like to work with a team composed
of members of different parties.
What men do you admire the most? That
is, what men provide you with an example
to govern your own conduct?
I have too much admiration for my father
to have very much left for anyone else.
But there is one man-and this may surprise
you-1 would have liked to have had as a
mentor: Leon Blum. One must be in love
with the law to be able to understand his
thinking and his sense of the obligations
and duties of the state. Later, I was very
attracted by Mendes-France, an outwardly
cold man with an inner warmth, who in-
carnates the definition of the statesman:
he strives for what is desirable and tries to
achieve what is possible.
,
a not seen us as
e
from a distance,
really are and had been misled by his intel- the king is asleep and all Morocco sleeps. What image of yourself do you want history
ligence services. Our relations have be- So to hold out, I have to be a little pig- to preserve?
come excellent. There is no doubt that the headed, I snarl like a bulldog and I set my We are now beginning to do justice to
path he has followed in his country was the jaw. I often say that, in our era, only two Louis XI who was called a universal spider
only possible one, considering the disparity regimes can save a country: either a true because, little by little, he spun the web
between the be#tprdot1Ue0o50fiell beV6t#t 2004dAi iMI?f 1=eP 1b7I4"0d1O01bt ow.idttry's unity despite the dukes of
a population of 28,000,000 inhabitants, an or communism. For power means sel - urgun y, despite all the problems in the
undoubted industrial potential and, above abnegation and a sort of anonymity, unless north and Aquitaine. If one were to say of
.,,r t., ,,1 ;,, Nine- nne fattc into the sin of pride. Whether you me that I was a tireless ant who worked
y
. 1;