AN INTERVIEW WITH FIDEL CASTRO

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75-00149R000600370005-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 22
• Document Creation Date: November 11, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 26, 1999
• Sequence Number: 5
• Publication Date: January 1, 1963
• Content Type: MAGAZINE

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An Interview with Fidel Cas
by Charles 0. Porter
CPYRGHT
[Charles orter, tormer epresen a ive 1rom. OlCgUo '5 216L ,
went to Cuba in late last September to speak to Prime Minister Fidel Castro
on behalf of the Union de Familiares pro Amnistia de Presos Politicos
ubanos in order to try to secure a general amnesty for political prisoners
that Cuba is holding. (These prisoners are associated neither with the Ba-
tista government nor with the Bay of Pigs (Playa Giron) invasion.)
There was hope that this amnesty could be negotiated, because Castro had
told James Donovan, who negotiated the bargain for the Bay of Pigs prisoners,
that when the Bay of Pigs agreement was closed, he would consider a general
amnesty for political prisoners. Porter's negotiations with Castro were not
successful because Castro required that before a general amnesty could be
declared 1) that the aggressive attacks on Cuba, which Castro is sure are
supported by our CIA, must cease, and 2) that the Bay of Pigs agreement
must first be completed-Castro claims that Cuba was shortchanged about
ten million dollars.
The U.S. Government did not endorse Porter's trip to Cuba as a negotiator
for the Union although they had full knowledge of that reason for his trip,
but Porter did get clearance to go as a journalist representing Look Magazine
for the purpose of securing an interview with the Prime Minister. That inter-
view took place 3 October 1963, and Northwest Review is pleased to print
the text of it here. Look, which has over 71/3 million more readers and, more
importantly, an income of millions from advertisers, would not print this
interview. We feel very strongly that it should be made available, that it is
information that we, as responsible citizens in a free society, ought to have;
so does Mr. Porter; so does the three-station Pacifica network, which will play
the tapes of the interview for their too-few subscribers.-E. VAN A.]
MR. PORTER: Mr. Prime Minister, as you know, I have presented
to you a petition from my clients in Miami, women relatives of Cuban
political prisoners, asking for a general amnesty. What is your attitude
toward releasing these political prisoners in the near future?
MR. CASTRO: As you know, the State punishes counter-revolutionary
activities as a means to defend the revolution.
The revolution has been constantly under unceasing castigation by
counter-revolution, inspired by the Government of the United States.
We cannot release the prisoners while there is still the purpose of
aggression on the part of the United States, because there is every assur-
ance that these prisoners would be used in case of attack on Cuba.
There is the very recent example of the prisoners of Playa Giron.
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The Government set these prisoners free and set them free without any
guarantees whatsoever, as concerns the payment of indemnities, and
these indemnities were not wholly fulfilled. We were victims of cheating.
And yet, these counter-revolutionary mercenaries were set free and
are again getting ready to attack Cuba.
With that, you can easily understand we are not in a very good disposi-
tion to offer a general amnesty to these counter-revolutionaries, because,
by doing so, we would be proceeding against our own national security.
I want to make it clear as far as Mr. Donovan, the lawyer, is concerned,
that I think he has not acted in bad faith. The responsibility lies fully on
the part of the Government of the United States that prevented him
from carrying out the full fulfillment of the compromise that he had
reached with us.
I can tell you that as soon as there is a peaceful situation as far as Cuba
is concerned, and the Cuban revolution is no longer menaced by the
Government of the United States, the Cuban Government will consider
a general amnesty.
What is the basis for your statement that the U.S.A. did not complete
its payment, as agreed, for the Bay of Pigs prisoners?
Even though the Revolutionary Government, in order to facilitate the
release of the mercenaries, changed the terms of the sentence-changed
those terms so instead of receiving the payment in cash, we would accept
food and medicine-even though the revolutionary government did that,
they [the U.S.] didn't carry it out completely. They didn't-neither in
quantity nor in quality. They sent many medicines which we didn't need
and didn't ask for, and we kept on saying we were not interested in those
medicines.
And we had made a compromise for them to send medicines and
equipment in which we were interested, and none of that came. And
unilaterally, without even discussing the matter with us, they decided
when the whole indemnification had been carried out.
Has a formal protest been filed, with a Bill of Particulars?
Yes. Even before the last shipment came, we sent a formal protest
with the functionaries of the International Red Cross and the American
Red Cross that were here.
And we told Mr. Donovan of the non-conformity. And we have all
the documents, to prove [our case] beyond any doubt. I think that
[nonfulfillment] was a serious mistake, because that destroys any good
faith that one might have that could be used as an instrument to better,
things.
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Has the United States replied to your protests?.
Not at all.
On what conditions, if any, would Cuban exiles be permitted by Cuba
to return to their homeland?
It is all on condition of the climate-cessation of the aggressions, the
policy of the United States. When we don't have anything to fear from
he emigres, because they are a minority. The limitations would be
lifted so far as needed workers is concerned. Naturally, work must be
given primarily to those who are living and working here.
Well, I would like to have you differentiate between "Communist,"
"Cuban Communist," "Socialist," and "Marxist-Leninist." And then tell
me which one or more of them do you consider yourself and when did
you become so.
This implicates political science and political thought, and every one
of those terms refers to various schools of socialism. The terminology
is used to describe the Utopian socialists, the communists, the primitive
communists and others. So they actually could mean many things.
They are relative. When we say we are Marxist-Leninist, what we mean
to say is that we are scientific socialists. This differentiates us from all
other types of socialists. We base our conceptions of society on history
-and on Marx's and Engel's conceptions, which were later on expanded
by Lenin.
And as Marxist-Leninists, we are not dogmatic-we consider that poli-
tical conceptions should be completely applied to a concrete situation.
They are not mechanical. We do not do things exactly as they have been
done in some other socialist countries. You understand that every rev-
olutionary movement should apply a creative spirit to its political con-
ceptions and we have applied ours in that spirit. We are building so-
cialism.
To build socialism doesn't mean to build communism. Communism
requires a material basis. And those material bases must be carried out
during the construction of socialism.
In communism, everyone gives in accordance with his work and re-
ceives in accordance with his necessities.
In socialism everyone gives in accordance to his work and receives in
accordance to his work.
However, even under socialism, many people receive in accordance
with their necessities-sick people, for instance, get medical care. They
are subsidized while they are sick. The young people, studying, have
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scholarships-they have nothing to pay. And the aged. And c i ren
receive free education-which means that many people in socialism re-
ceive in accordance with their necessities, but there are many other people
that give and receive in accordance with their work.
There are still some remnants of capitalism-there are many people
who receive much more ... there are even people who do not work and
produce any material. We have the case, for instance, of people who
own houses, and who are being paid on indemnity of five to six hundred
dollars a month, without doing absolutely anything, only because they
were proprietors of different houses.
There are some doctors who work in the State Hospitals, and some
other doctors who work on their own who make much more.
So you can say there are socialists and there are people that would
belong to the communist class, and there also remnants of the old society,
the capitalist society. Socialism is only a transitory stage.
Of course, the socialist systems-
Let me understand, though: socialism is where you own the means of
production, but communism, in the way you are using it, is even more
public ownership than that? Would that be the distinction?
It's more than that. It's superior to socialism.
The state has the property in the name of the people. It is really the
property of the nation. There is an identification between the state and
the people. There still isn't any communist society in the world.
The Soviet Union, which is a socialist country, is beginning now to
solve the practical problems posed by a communist society.
At the moment, we are solving the practical problems posed by a
socialist society. And we are highly interested in solving these problems
very well. You can have one social system efficient and one social system
deficient. So that is also true of capitalism. It depends on the methods-
it depends on the formulas you use to solve practical problems.
You substitute one way of living for another. You substitute a society
that works on the function of some factors for another society. In our
country, which is a small country, it is logically easier. When you have
those same problems in the Soviet Union or even in the United States-
the most technically developed country that has a highly developed in-
dustry-you are more near the structure you would have under socialism.
It is not the same to build socialism in an under-develqped country as
in an industrialized country. It is not the same to build socialism in a
country where you have small factories and four or five big factories
as it is to build socialism in a country where all the factories are big.
. It is not the same to. build socialism in a country where you have
multiple small enterprises as in a country where the means. of production
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re already in the hands of consolidated big enterprises.
They have practically the same organization they would have under
ocialism except that there they are in the hands of private people, not
ublic. But who manages these big enterprises? The proprietors? No.
he managers of the proprietors. The owners sometimes are thousands
nd thousands of miles away, and never have anything to do with the
dministration of those businesses.
Every stockholder of a big enterprise is interested in having a good
dministrator. In socialism, the people are the stockholders, and all the
eople should be interested in seeing that the enterprise goes on well so
hat the earnings will be bigger for all the stockholders and in a social-
st country the earnings are for all the people, who are the stockholders.
Of course, an advanced and industrialized country is always more
prepared for socialism than an under-developed country. An under-de-
eloped country, where there have been very small factories, has no ex-
rience in managing big enterprises; they have to create all that organi-
ation.
So that poses very big practical problems, which are very interesting.
aturally, it is only a question of time before this government has experi-
ence and an organization in order to be able to make use of all the
advantages of socialism.
One of the main advantages, I say, in a socialist system is that all the
resources are rationally used. They are not employed in an anarchic way.
You create an opportunity to orient the resources in one direction, and the
strength of all the resources then is more superior than if the resources
were scattered.
For instance, you have seen our chicken plantation?
It's wonderful.
There we have birds of the best type. Not any individual producer can
do that. Only with resources of the nation.
But aside from the economic aspect, when you said, "I am a Marxist-
Leninist," everybody in the United States-the writers-said "Com-
munist, who believes in world revolution by a conspiracy to overthrow the
capitalist nations." Now, I want to know, do you consider yourself that
kind of Communist? One who is pledged to world revolution by force
against the capitalist nations, in accordance with Marxian dogma?
I think it is rather the capitalistic countries who have sworn them-
selves to destroy socialist countries.
For instance, when Mr. Kennedy and many American Senators say,
"We will not allow any communist regimes in Latin America," what are
they doing? They are pledging themselves to prevent revolution in Latin
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merica-in spite of that not being their problem, because Latin Ameri-
ans should have the systems of government they want to have.
I think the best thing, in order to avoid confusion, would be to have
he Marxist-Leninist ideas spread all over the United States, so that they
an see that they form a conception of a society where the means of pro-
uction are scientific and have nothing to do with an international revolu-
ion to destroy different governmental systems.
Well, such things as the withering away of the state, which in Russia
e haven't seen happen, perhaps, too soon. I take it that you believe
hose countries have to be adapted to the peculiar conditions-and that
ou are not, necessarily, committing Cuba to what Marx and Engel may
ave written many years ago.
We concern ourselves with the application of the doctrines by Marx
nd Engels and of Lenin to the concrete conditions of our country. Marx-
sm is a guide for action and not a codified summary of formulas to solve
ractical problems. Some of the problems that may come this way-
aybe one will not be able to solve these problems.. . and must have some
ther way.
The problems actually facing the Soviet Union are not the same
roblems they had when the revolution began. They could not be im-
gined in those times. Life itself poses different situations that one has
o solve, based on different purposes and principles.
The main purpose is to abolish the exploitation of man by man.
I think that it's these changed situations that account for your change
of policy since you were in the United States, talking free elections-
you were talking no intervention of property, and Rodrigues wrote
that the "Revolution is not Socialist" in May of 1959. But then it became
socialist.
What I want to know is when. and how did it become socialist and
is becoming communist the next step?
At the beginning the revolution could not be called a socialist revolu-
tion, because at that time the program was not properly socialist. It
established a series of measures, such that even though it already pointed
out social reforms of a very deep character and changing economic
structure, it wasn't yet a socialist program.
Life itself teaches us that nothing is static. Man is not born man. He is
born like a child. At first, he is not able to walk. Then comes the time
when he begins to use his reasoning. Then comes childhood, adolescence,
youth, adulthood. In every human, no program is eternal and much
less those in the midst of revolutions.
In the fight against Batista, the main objective was to throw him out
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and to gain power. The further work of the revolution was concerne
with living quarters, land, and some monopolists who had very high
prices.
In the first phase, the American enterprises had not been nationalized.
But that doesn't mean that it was going to last forever. Nothing is ever
lasting.
The transitory phase of the revolutionary program was, no doubt,
accelerated because of the measures taken against Cuba. At the begin-
ning of the revolution there was tax reform. Agrarian reform. (The
same thing which you are asking from the Latin American governments
now.) Social reform. Educational reform. Planned housing. Public
health programs. Suppression of speculation. So there were a series of
social reforms. And those social reforms gave rise to an aggressive
policy on the part of the United States.
Did the United States then try to search for a formula for rediscus-
sion, a formula that would create an honorable solution for both coun-
tries? No. Instead of that, the formula of conspiracy-the formula of
organization of invasion by mercenaries, the formula of employment of
force, the formula of economic blockade, the cutting of the sugar quota.
In the face of all these measures, the revolution had to confiscate Amer.
ican enterprises. The Revolution of the Cuban nation, in the face of these
aggressions, had to mobilize the people.
So all those aggressions accelerated the revolutionary process.
And if the United States is going to deal with all revolutions in the
same way it dealt with the Cuban revolution, some day the United States
will find itself isolated from a big part of the world, and from most of
Latin America.
The revolutionaries in Latin America see, in the United States, an
ally of military, reactionary organizations, and they see all the policies
of the United States as a policy against their best interests. The United
States, a priori, appears as the enemy of the peoples.
In the United States, when you said, "I am a Communist"-in effect,
it was interpreted as meaning, "I have joined your enemies, the Russians,
who are for the overthrow of the United States Government by force and
conspiracy." That's what it meant in the United States and what I want
to know is, is that what it means to you when you say, "I am a Com-
munist?"
We declared the socialist purpose of our revolution on the same day
when they bombed our military bases-the previous day-the attack on
Playa Giron. The attack was on the Playa Giron-the moment when
we were getting ready to fight the invasion, of which we didn't know
the dimensions. We didn't even know if the United States was going to
intervene directly or not.
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And then we said, "We are fighting for these ideas and we are rea y
to die for them." Because the experience we had had so far had taught
us that the people, the exploited, had a fundamental enemy. And that
enemy was not the Soviet Union. That enemy was the United States.
That's what we meant. We will fight against that policy and that sys-
tcm-our enemy. That's what we meant. We fight our enemies. That,
policy said that system is our enemy: that's what we meant by over-
throwing.
I think the change of the system in the United States is the task of the
intellectual and the working class of the United States. It can only be a
product of the historical process of the system itself.
Let me very concrete. Is the Cuban government now conspiring or
does it intend to conspire and actively work with the enemies of the
United States in the world for the overthrow of the United States gov-
ernment?
We are not conspiring against the United States or anyone else. But,
for instance, we feel solidarity with the fight of the Vietnamese. They
are dying there under the bombs of America. We have solidarity with
so many people fighting for independence. As long as the United
States remains as the enemy of the independence of the people-we shall
not be against the United States or the American people or even against
the system they have there: that's an American program. We shall be
against their international policy of backing the oligarchies, reactoinar-
ies, colonists. We will be against those policies-not against the nation
of the American people.
What is your definition of a satellite of the Soviet Union or any other
country? Is Cuba a satellite?
No. The satellites I know are those belonging to the cosmic air
spaces.... But I cling to the conception that Samoza is a satellite, and that
Betancourt is a satellite-of the United States. Most of the Latin Ameri-
can governments are satellites of the U.S.
How does the Sino-Soviet split afect Cuba and which side is Cuba on,
if any?
We have already stated our position in favor of the unity of the
Socialists. The split goes against the revolutionary movement in every
country. But we have our own concrete problems to deal with as long as
we are facing American aggressions, and for us that is the most important
thing: how to resist these aggressions. That's our fundamental task. And
we have our own line as far as international programs are concerned.
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You've often called United States leaders "imperialists"-what s meant
by that word?
The word "imperialist" is well known in political circumstances. It's
a political conception.
Political imperialism in the days when Theodore Roosevelt annexed
the Panama Canal territory-that is the kind of imperialism that is
meant to most American people when someone calls us an imperialist.
Remember what we did in the Philippines, Puerto Rico. It doesn't seem
to make sense. What you are talking about is economic imperialism and
is associated with big corporations supported by the United States.
The economic conception of imperialism means the exportation of
capitalism to other countries, where they can find the financial capital,
to underdeveloped countries where the work is cheap and where the
earnings are bigger. And then in the most industrialized countries, Eng-
land, for instance, where they have surplus capital and have invested it
in other countries, they naturally have some ingredients for progress. The
profits of the businesses operating in Latin America were higher than
the money they invested.
Really big changes have taken place in recent years. Today those
methods and that policy is difficult to defend in the light of reasoning.
New formulas are beginning to appear in the United Nations. And, today,
it is a universally accepted truth that industrialized countries should
help in the development of underdeveloped countries. And you want to
better the existing living conditions in the world today.
Do you consider your government a dictatorship? 11 not, what is it?
Personally, I don't consider it a dictatorship, but if we are going to
have a definition of our government from a Marxist-Leninist point of
view, we can say that it is either a proletarian dictatorship or a prole-
tarian democracy. There are two types of democracy. In bourgeois
democracies, such as you have in the United States, those that own the
riches, are the most influential-and I understand that what they call a
democracy in the United States is a dictatorship of a class-of the pro-
prietors, of the owners. We understand that the Cuban system of gov-
ernment is a democracy of workers and peasants.
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Is freedom of religion fostered, or at least tolerated in u a todayf
's atheism increasing with or without government assistance?
Anyone can see for himself in the streets. Any visitor, for instance,
n Havana, may see all the churches opened. The worship services are held
ithout any restrictions whatsoever. Families send their children to
hurch.
I can't very well answer your question whether atheism is increasing
r not. It is not easy for me to answer this sort of question. Religious
roblems have caused no worry to the Revolution. The only problems
hat came up were of a political and not of a philosophical nature. Espe-
ially when the classes affected by the Revolution tried to use the Church
gainst the Revolution. I can categorically affirm to you that there are
o restrictions on the freedom to worship, as you yourself, or any visi-
or, can see for himself.
Now, I am told that sometimes you stop and talk with the public, in
various places. The Brazilian Ambassador was telling me about this and
others have told me about it. How often do you do this and why?
I am constantly on the streets. I am an enemy of bureaus and bureau-
rats. I understand that the bureaucratic method has some advantages,
but I personally choose the most democratic methods, and I think that
permits me to be most in contact with the people.
Because in so doing, I have a fresh and direct impression. I can see
how things go. I pay visits to the university and the centers-to the fac-
tories and talk to the workers. I visit the fishing cooperatives and go very
often into the mountains.
And besides all that, once in awhile, I get together with the govern-
ment to discuss these impressions.
Do you have an office? Files? Secretaries?
I have an office but I use it very little. I have different aides that I
use very much.
Do you have a more or less fixed residence?
Sure.
Will freedom of the press be established in Cuba in the near future?
Will U. S. publications be allowed to be sold and distributed here? How
many American news media people are you refusing or neglecting to
admit?
Every, social system has its own conception of freedom of the press.
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I think there is freedom of the press that is enjoyed by imperialists an
capitalists and there is a proletarian freedom of the press. When we had
in Cuba a bourgeois press, the problems of the working class, the necessi-
ties of the people, were not pressed whatsoever.
There were nuisances committed against the working class and the
peasants, and they were not pressed whatsoever.
The exploited have no press. Because freedom of the press also means
having great capital to buy paper, machinery and so on.
Freedom of the press also means to have plenty of advertisements from
tho big monopolies and large enterprises. That's why the exploited have
no press whatsoever.
The press operated on behalf of the exploiters. That's what they used
to call freedom of the press.
Now, the press is in the hands of the exploited. And the exploiters have
no press. That's what we call freedom of the press. Proletarian freedom
of the press.
But there are people, I assume, who honestly dissent about problems-
without being traitors-who dissent about policies o l the government.
Are they going to be allowed a hearing in this proletarian press?
It depends on who the people are. If they are enemies of the revolution
they won't have the opportunity. But if they are members of the govern-
ment, they have lots of opportunity at assemblies, meetings, news-
papers .... Do you think the government here forces anyone to present
previously any speech they make? Thousands of them write in news-
papers, radio, television-and we, the leaders of the government, many
times don't know what they say, and we also could say right or wrong
things.
The other night, when you were speaking, there were two different
explosions-it may have been just one and its echo. Now, in the account
of your speech it said "explosions and his response."
Now, so far as I've been able to find out, there was never any story
about what was blown up. Now, people in Havana knew about that and
it seems to me that the newspapers had a duty to explain the explosion.
Everybody here understands that with that type of explosion, it is done
intentionally for the purpose of sabotaging. When important things do
happen, the government keeps the people informed.
When the pilot attacked Oriente Province, it was published. When
they burned the department store here, it was published. We publish
facts with some importance.
Naturally, things of minor importance, done for propaganda purposes,
and carried out by. enemies of the revolution-we do not inform the peo-
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e about them. We have no interest. You will understand. This has been
r enemy's propaganda. The same way, they never publish in the United
ates the big accomplishments of the Cuban revolution.
The cables and the American press publish the most fabulous lies.
What about this American press if Time Magazine and The New York
imes and the whole gamut of American publications were available
re in Cuba? I am not sure they are under our present law. Would they
e allowed to be distributed here?
If there would be peace between the United States and us, there would
e much more opportunity for all those publications. We would adopt
hatever type of measures ... we would have a reciprocal kind ...
Now, would that apply also to newsmen? I understand that NBC's
ohn Lobichek, Time's 1. Mallon and some others have been refused
dmittance to Cuba. Is that because Cuban newspapermen have been
fused admittance to the United States?
We have given permission to many of them. There have been many
ewsmen asking for interviews like this one. And it doesn't seem to me
rsonally possible to grant all of these interviews. It is not that they
me to ask about Cuba, but to ask an interview of me.
o0
But the policy of the government is to let them in?
Generally, yes. The only limitation is the time we personally have.
Are honest elections impossible today or in the future?
It depends on what type of elections, because we still have to solve our
nstituitons, our constitution ... and the way we are going to establish
he representative system so that all the people can participate. That's a
roblem of institutional right, but by no means the most urgent prob-
em. The most urgent problem has been to resist aggression, resist the
lockade, and be in condition to continue our advancement. In the next
ears the constitution will have to be approved and established, and
hen there will be a definition which way people participate. At this mo-
ent the people participate in an indirect way. They have trust in the
evolutionary government. We're still reformers.
On the 8th of September, Mr. Crimmins, our Coordinator of Cuban
1fjairs, made a speech to the American Legion and he said in it that the
r hi. human freedoms no longer exist. There was a statement in it that
he revolution of bread and liberty that you referred to didn't happen.
his is what he's saying, and all but complete elimination of private eco-
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omic activity-well, I wanted you to comment on the basic human f ree-
oms.
You can go to any street in Havana and talk to a native citizen and
sk if he does not believe he enjoys basic human freedoms. Ask any
egro nurse in any hospital or ask any Negro boy who can study in
fly school. Just ask any peasant girl who used to be illiterate and is
ow studying to be a teacher whether or not she enjoys basic human
recdoms. Visit the mountains and ask all of those who have just learned
ow to read and write. Ask the people who lived in indigence, in slums,
rider sub-human conditions whether they are enjoying any freedoms or
Lot. Go to the hospitals where the patients used to sleep on the floor
before the Revolution. Now the doctors paid by the government save
the lives of men, women and children. Ask them whether they enjoy
basic human rights. Just ask any worker, any farmer, any fisherman.
The only ones who don't enjoy basic freedoms are those who are against
the Revolution and are opposed to the spread of basic human rights to the
most of the country.
Now we come to the economic question. Communism has lowered
(Mr. Crimmins says) rather than raised the standard of living. In 1962,
the gross national product was estimated to be 25% below 1958 levels in
per-capita terms and the read GNP at least 30% less in your first four
years.
That, in the first place, is not true. But when you speak of per capita
under capitalism, the per capita of the person who has nothing is zero.
But when you speak of per capita under Socialists-it means that every-
one has something. That's why many people have more than they ever
had. It is possible to have a lower per capita figure and at the same
time to have the immense majority getting more than before. Before,
the money was taken away from the country-was kept in foreign banks.
In the second place, what right has any American official to speak of
our economic situation or of our per capita, for if we have experienced
only a 25% decrease in spite of the brutal blockade and the aggressive
acts engaged by the United States against Cuba, then this in itself con-
stitutes a victory for the Revolution.
And in the third place, I can tell you that the condition of the masses
improves in Cuba in spite of the American blockade. The condition of
the masses in Latin America worsens in spite of the Alliance for Progress.
It's not only a question of method. Besides, the real question is not the
per capita income per se. What about in cultural per capita? What about
the doubling of the number of children that go to schools. What about our
sons getting medical care that they never did before? What about the
wiping out of the recurring annual epidemic of poliomyelitis in Cuba,
85
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for instance? The vaccination campaigns? What about all the socia
benefits? What about the wiping out of discrimination? Or is it that the
wiping out of racial discrimination cannot be counted in the cultural and
moral per capita of a country?
No doubt, in the United States, the per capita is much higher than in
Cuba, but just ask any Southern Negro in the United States-or even a
Northern Negro-what his opinion is regarding the moral and social
per capita of his country.
You suggest that a group of U.S. Senators and Representatives ought
to visit Cuba now to see for themselves what is Cuba is doing, socially
and economically, to improve the lives of its citizens.
Do you have any particular persons in mind? Who? Would they be
permitted complete freedom? Of movement and inquiry while here-
except with respect to visiting prisons and certain military installations?
In a conversation with you I told you that I was sure there were many
persons-citizens in the United States-who absolutely ignore the trends
and the firmness of the revolution.
In spite of the difficulties we may have due to the American blockade,
I am sure that if a group of American politicians-those who have their
own thinking and their own attitudes, their own criteria-would come
here, I am sure they would be impressed by what they would see.
And we are ready to invite them.
And they would have their complete freedom, except for the exceptions
I mentioned?
They would have maximum freedom, with the exceptions noted. Those
things that affect our security. And we will show them our difficulties and
we will show them our successes. We will speak as freely as they would
wish. I, personally, will show them the work of the revolution.
Would you believe that a group of Cuba's government officials would
have anything to gain in terms of understanding the U.S. by making a
similar visit there? And also Cuban students? Do you think that this flow
ought to be two ways?
We authorize freely the exit from this country, and the United States
is not an exception. We wouldn't have to change any policy whatsoever
in order to give permission for Cuban officials or any Cuban students
to go to the United States.
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in any case, woulZI e the American gOV0111171tait that WOuid hove "-I
change its policy. It is they who have really built a wall. You could even
say that they have locked within that wall all American citizens.
If your students went there, woud they be investigated by the un-Cuban
Activities Committee?
No. They wouldn't be investigated, and in any case, one is really
amazed, because if everything they said against Cuba were true, the
ones interested in not letting people come here would be ourselves.
If the revolution were really so terrible, why should not the United
States allow everyone to come here and see for themselves?
Why don't they let the Negro leaders come here and see whether or
not we have racial discrimination? Why don't they allow students? The
workers' leaders? The intellectuals?
It so happens that we have no restrictions whatsoever.
The American government is afraid to let the truth be known. Can
the American government present itself as the defender of truth?
I am told that the reason for the American government's attitude is
that they feel they must keep our students from coming here because they
are asking various Latin American governments not to allow their stu-
dent to come here because they are afraid those students will go back
and take part in guerrilla activities and knock over rather shaky govern.
ments. Would you care to comment on that position?
That's one more proof of the fear of the United States towards the
Cuban revolution. By doing so, they show their fear that the Cuban
revolution would be attractive to other young people. And if a revolution
is so terrible, why should it be attractive? Why not facilitate trips to
Cuba?
Is the use of capital punishment increasing?
Capital punishment, according to our laws, is applied only to the cases
of high treason. As, for instance, invasion of our territory, or the use of
weapons in the service of a foreign government, or for terrorist acts.
Is it possible to say how many executions there have been last month,
last year, or since the revolution took place? Are there any such statistics
existing?
We can't tell you exactly, but they are minimal.
Is there any kind of torture, physical or non-physical, permitted or
practiced in Cuba, today?
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It is fl now c, d$( t, known by 11 the ac 1dLI dlldd ~V$Cd Cl .~ 31Y
adGd.uy-
nized by our own enemies, that the ?revolutaordery government has never
allowed any torture whatever.
The revolutionary government doesn't permit anything against the law.
All the penalties for things against the revolution have been established
by our law.
I have here a copy of a report dated August 17th by the Havana Bar
Association in exile. 1 gave you this copy in Spanish, and I'd like to
have your comments about some of the things they say there about politi-
cal prisoners.
Of course, they say 75,000 and then they go down into matters of-
Ono of the characteristics of all these parasitic associations maintained
by the Treasury Department of the United States is to lie, shamefully.
Well, they make a case out here-
That's the way they have to earn their living.
They are saying things like many members of your courts are illiterate;
that the accused doesn't know the charges.. .
Well, they are not certainly graduates of Harvard University. And all
the revolutionary courts are conducted by technicians who have gradu-
ated from the International University.
And they say such things as Defense Counsel have themselves been
persecuted, imprisoned, and even shot for defending political prisoners.
Is there any truth in this?
Throughout the country there are many who have defended the counter-
revolutionaries and have become rich.
Because they were defending a social class which was the owner of
of all the riches. No revolutionary lawyer becomes rich defending revolu-
tionaries. The lawyers of the bourgeoisie and the imperialists made them-
selves rich.
Does the Cuban judicial system today meet standards necessary for
due process of law? What's being done to improve it?
The actual system is accepted because of necessity. It will change as
soon as it can.
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Would Cuba consider adjudicating, in her courts, the c ims S.
citizens and corporations have for indemnification of property taken
over by the state and to provide for appeals to an international body,
either existing or ad hoc?
Yes. We are ready at any moment to discuss whatever formulas might
be necessary for the indeminfication of their property. At the same
time, it's time to start thinking of the indemnification that Cuba should
receive because of the harms it has derived from the American blockade
and the attacks.
As a lawyer, that would stagger me a little bit, but I understand the
position. What's the availability of this remedy, apart from the U. S.
concessions with respect to sugar purchases?
There is a law in the Revolutionary government to which both ques-
tions are tied. These corporations would be able to receive the payment
in pesos, but we suppose they want it in dollars-and how are we going to
pay in dollars without having any business with the United States?
Under what conditions, if any, could the Alliance for Progress be use-
ful in the hemisphere? In Cuba?
I think the Alliance for Progress was thought of as an instrument
against Cuban revolution and never for the sincere purpose of promoting
development in Latin America. In present conditions, development in
Latin America is absolutely impossible, because of illiteracy, lack of
technicians, shaky governments and a series of other conditions. The
masses have already a consciousness of their necessity in bringing im-
provements and are in the position to fight those conditions. But if
present conditions do not change-there cannot be any development,
and in the same way the Alliance for Progress fails. Revolutionary gov-
ernments will spring up. From my point of view there can be no progress
in Latin America without changes really radical. And those radical
changes can only be carried out by the peoples. What the United States
is trying to do to stop this revolution is try to stop them-not help them.
I don't mean that this is the case in every country, but in most of the
countries, especially in the most underdeveloped. That's why I think
the best help you can give to the people in Latin America is to respect
them, to give them the government they want. The only way you can
inspire friendship in Latin America is no intervention, or trying to stop
the revolutionary movement. The results of the failure are evident. They
happen one after the other, at a faster step than ever before. Politically,
all these countries have gone back more than ever. It is evident that the
intervention is against the entire revolutionary spirit. I think the United
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States shouftl adapt itself situation In the world-the revo u-
tionary situation is the same as 20 or 30 years ago. The United States
should prepare iself to deal with revolutionary governments because it
has the alternative of being either friend or enemy, but in no way will
it be able to stop a revolution. That's what I think.
In other words, the evolution that is premised by the Alliance for
Progress is in your mind wrong. It won't get or make social or economic
progress that way. It will have to come after the revolution.
In some other countries with better conditions you may have that
evolution. But in most other countries that is not the siuation. Unavoid-
able revolution-that is to think in a realistic way.
If greens, powdered milk and other foods were available to Cuba
under the U. S. Foods for Peace program, would Cuba allow them to be
shipped here and their distribution to be supervised by U. S. officials? I
should explain that the law does allow the President to ship to people of
unfriendly governments as in Poland and other places.
Under the present conditions of tension, we wouldn't accept it because
it would be interrelated.
Under what conditions, if any, would Cuba rejoin the OAS?
Well, in order to give you an answer, I would have to think it over.
What per cent of completion exists with respect to the Land Reform
Program?
I think it will take several years to carry out completely. We are still
far from attaining the maximum utilization of our resources. And I think
when we reach this goal we will have doubled or even tripled the total
production we had under capitalism.
Does Cuba intend to do away with all private property? And what
is the schedule and the extent?
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There are different types of private property. For instance, the small
Private property of the peasants will last indefinitely and will only
lisappear through an evolutionary process. We base our agricultural
Production on the effort of the small farmers and of state farms. All
hese farmers who have about sixty hectares or less will enjoy full, defi-
fite guarantees about their holdings-they are allies of the Revolution.
t won't be so with the farms larger than sixty hectares.
Is it true that the government has forcibly taken no houses from any-
me? I was told that there was no intervening in private housing. I under-
tand that the government has never gone in and said to some rich per-
Pon, "Get out of your house. I want it."
No, not one single case. The case is simply that the government took
ver all the homes abandoned voluntarily by those who suddenly left the
ountry.
Besides, two years from now, no one will have to pay any rent for
heir housing. Soon it will be five years since the Urban Reform Law
as put into effect and from sixty to seventy per cent of the people
will not be paying any rent. In all the new houses that have been built
ml given after the Urban Reform Law, people are paying only 10%
of their salaries for rent.
You're making a law on land reforms coming out this afternoon
Who made that law? How was it made? Was it made by the Council o
Ministers?
It was made by the Council of Ministers. This government didn't corn
into existence by a coup d'etat. It came into power with the support, driv
and backing of the masses. This government maintains itself thanks to th
firm and committed support, even to the extent of offering their lives fo
it, of the people, the workers and the peasants. Kennedy may say tha
millions voted for him in the last elections; we can say that millions o
Cubans are willing to die in the defense of our Revolution.
These people on the Council of Ministers were appointed by you an
are subject to your removal. Is that correct?
The Members of the Council of Ministers were appointed by the Pre
ident of the Republic, just like in the United States. In our Constitution,
the Prime Minister supposedly leads the political affairs of the gave
ment. You are aware that we are in the process of organizing the Part
of the Revolution. The Party has the responsibility of directing the polit
cal life of the nation, the welfare of the nation itself. As I said, th'
party is still being formed, perhaps too slowly, but with good result-
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of this party are still to be established.
A personal government doesn't exist in Cuba. All fundamental prob-
lems are discussed in the government as well as in all the political
centers-problems concerning government as well as politics. All funda-
mental solutions are the result of intelligent discussion among the
But as a political matter, because of your prestige, don't you have the
most say about policies and personnel?
Personal participation is very important. Personal participation is
very important in many decisions.
What happens if you become incapacitated or die? Does Raul take
over? What particular plans are made for this possibility? How would
there be a transfer of power without much bloodshed?
No plans have been made for this situation. Raul is Vice Prime Minis-
ter. And Vice First Secretary of the Party. Naturally, should such a sit-
uation arise-after all this is not a monarchy-the problem would have
to be solved by the executive committee of the Party, by the revolutionary
leaders and the Party itself.
. I would like to have your opinion of President Kennedy personally
and his political situation with respect to Cuban policy.*
Would you think a personal meeting, say at the United Nations, would
serve any useful purpose at this time, or later?
We don't trust President Kennedy, because his political attitude is not
either firm or sure.
Many times he says one thing and does another. Kennedy is actually
This interview took place fifty days before President Kennedy was murdered.
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responsible for the actual political status of the relations between u a
and the United States.
Kennedy didn't have any need whatsoever to carry out the expedition
against Cuba, like that of Playa Giron which was organized by the Re-
publicans.
Even Kennedy, when he took charge, as President, said that he had to
start anew again. As far as we have seen, he didn't start anew but con-
tinued what they were doing.
He is to blame that today his political enemies can use Cuba in their
political campaign. Because, precisely, he followed the line of his politi-
cal enemies. He played with them.
On many occasions the President of the United States has declared
one thing and has done another thing. At this very moment, he is saying
one thing and doing another. Because while he declares that the United
States will not carry out any military action against Cuba and also that
the United States has not any responsibility for these sporadic attacks,
we know of the plans that the CIA is carrying out.
These attacks have been organized by the Central Intelligence Agency.
The planning centers and the bases to attack Cuba are being personally
supervised by the United States. During the last month and since the crisis
of October, the CIA has been introducing saboteurs into Cuba. They
have been introduced and are disembarking weapons on our coast. The
CIA utilizes a group of ships with which they carry out those activities
of infiltration and the introduction of weapons, and those weapons come
directly from the United States. We have innumerable proofs of that.
Have these proofs ever been presented to the United Nations?
Is there any chance of you and President Kennedy, despite your past
disagreements and hard words with each other, reaching an agreement
either through a personal meeting or through intermediaries? And I was
wondering if the attitude you are expressing would seem to show that
that was impossible.
At this very moment, Mr. Kennedy is in a big political contradiction.
On one side, he seems to be taking some steps in favor of international
peace. This question is, however, aggravated as far as Cuba is concerned.
The CIA is increasing its activities in the case of Cuba.
And anyone who would stop to think a little would understand that
that's not the proper way to fight for peace. Those two political attitudes
are irreconcilable: his peace policy on the one hand, and the policy of
aggravation against Cuba. Should this policy be continued, it will-it is
going to ruin the peace policy.
But it the policy were ended, then it might be that you could reach
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some agreement directly or with interme cartes.
We have always made public our position in favor of discussing our
differences with the United States.
We mean bilateral discussions between our two countries. The means
to carry them out is not so important. Any means can be used to have a
discussion.
Is Cuba now training, advising and financing guerrilla forces to fo-
ment revolution in any other Latin American countries, and if these things
have been done-will they continue to be done, and if so, on what scale?
What you read in the cables every day are not statements by the Cuban
government making itself responsible for guerrilla actions in Latin
American countries. On the contrary, the military of the Santo Domingo
government and Venezuela and so on are stating every day what they
are doing to prepare to attack Cuba.
It's an evident proof that the American government has been financing,
preparing expeditions and promoting and preparing internal subversion
in Cuba.
Do they accuse Cuba of the same thing they are doing against Cuba?
Well, I think they accuse Cuba of sending arms to Venezuela and get-
ting young boys here from other countries and training them how to be
guerrilla fighters and then sending them out to fight against existing
governments.
On this point, the Cuban government will not give any guarantee to
these countries which they are not ready to give to Cuba.
It is for that reason that we are not interested whatsoever in clearing
up this point.
Would Cuba consider allowing inspection of missile sites and internal
search for offensive weapons by a U.N. Commission if conditions were
exactly the same for such inspection and search in the United States,
Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala and other countries involved?
That's a program that the revolutionary government has not discussed.
But I personally have always been opposed to everything unilateral.
But in a case in which it wouldn't be one-sided, and it would be done
under the same conditions to all the countries involved, there wouldn't
be reasons for us to have any opposition. And we would be ready to con-
sider any formula that would be reciprocal-an equality condition.
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