IGRC MEETING OF 27 FEBRUARY 1974

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75B00380R000600190084-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 15, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 31, 2003
• Sequence Number: 84
• Publication Date: March 1, 1974
• Content Type: MFR

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MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT: ICRC Meeting of 27 February 1974
1. The ICRC meeting was held in the Executive Office Building
on Wednesday, 27 February 1974. Chairman Rhoads made a number
of announcements:
a. He welcomed the new Justice representatives,
Messrs. Greenwald and Marcuse.
b. He passed out two AEC documents which
apparently are educational material for people in AEC
who are concerned with classification problems. He
commended these publications to all.
c. Chairman Rhoads and Bill Brown (Executive
Director) reported on the progress in planning for the
symposium ICRC plans by way of educating concerning
the Executive Order. It is tentatively scheduled for
30 April. The date, however, is contingent on the
schedule of the hoped-for principal speaker, the Vice
President. It is to be in the auditorium at the Archives
which holds slightly more than 200 people. There have
been reports that the Department of Justice symposium
on the Freedom of Information Act in December was too
large (over 500 people). Speakers now scheduled include
Mr. Liebling, Department of Defense, who will speak on
the responsibilities of classifiers; Art Van Cook of
Department of Defense, who will speak on how Defense
educates its employees; Bill Blair, Department of State,
a Deputy Assistant Secretary, who will speak on the
Mandatory Review Process under the Executive Order;
Charlie Marshall of AEC; Jim O'Neill of National Archives
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who will speak on ICRC; Bill Brown will discuss the quarterly
report requirements under the Order; and Acting Attorney
General Dixon will speak on the meaning of the Order and the
Directive. In planning for this symposium, thought is also
being given to the possibility of having smaller specialized
sessions at a later time.
d. The subcommittee concerning reporting of classi-
fication abuses and the subcommittee concerned with foreign
derived information have met and are continuing their work.
e. Chairman Rhoads referred to the Kissinger memorandum
to State and Defense instructing them to make certain that foreign
governments protect classified information received from us . He
noted that some members of the subcommittee on foreign derived
information believe that it may not be politic to raise this
matter with foreign governments.
f. Bill Brown has been invited to speak before the
International Studies Association on 22 March in St. Louis.
This association was described as having some 9,000 members
from academic, business and government circles and is a
well-respected organization. Brown is also to speak before the
National Classification Management ociety in July at San Diego.
g. Mr. Brown a ve met with the staffs
of the Muskie and Moorh ~ttees in connection with
the requirements that ICRC testify before those committees.
The plan is that Chairman Rhoads and Mr. Brown will testify
before the Muskie group in April and the Moorhead group in
June. The staffs have been given the names of the members of
ICRC and it is expected the members also will be required to
testify. Mr. Philips, the Moorhead Staff man, indicates they
do not expect H.R. 12004 to progress very far this year but
they do intend to have hearings. It was indicated that the
staff people expressed great interest in the Data Index System
but it also appeared that they were misinformed. on the subject
and have a greatly exaggerated view of its utility with respect
to the Executive Order. The Congressional staff people in fact
have an interest in the ultimate establishment of a government-
wide Data Index System. At the hearings there will be interest
in the quarterly reporting system as well as the mandatory
review aspect of the Order. There will be inquiry concerning
the extent to which departments are informing requesters their
rights under the Order. The Congressional staff people are
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of documents being classified may be too low, in particular, CIA
figures may be low, He is concerned also that the number of
documents exempted from the General Declassification Schedule
may be lower in some cases, citing in this instance, HEW.
i. Mr. Marshall wants to raise at a later meeting a matter
considered some months ago, namely, the difficulties caused by
the fact that only TS classifiers may exempt from the General
Declassification Schedule.
concerned with the size of the ICRC staff, which consists
of Mr. Brown and his secretary. They were astonished to
learn this and indeed spoke of having a staff of 600 people for
the Classification Review Commission which would be established
by H.R. 12004. Brown was not sure that the staff people were
joking. The staff people are interested also.. in the use of such
terms as "Eyes Only", For Official Use OnI ", ,etc . They will
also be interested i compartmentations systems. They are
interested in the progress report of the ICRC committee and they
were pleased that ICRC is planning a symposium.
h. Bill Brown indicated he is putting the progress report
together and will send it to the members for comment. He is
concerned that the figures reported to him as to the total number
2. With respect to the Minutes, I queried whether paragraph
8 is accurate. It had been my understanding that the subcommittee was
to consider all of the reporting requirements beginning with the report
of classification abuses. The Chairman indicated he thought paragraph 8
was accurate. The Minutes were then adopted.
3. DOD introduced a proposal concerning the Data Index require-
ments under the NSC Directive. Defense estimates that complete compliance
with the requirement would cost Defense some $20,000,000 - $50,000,000
per year, this being additional to start up costs. Defense intends to do
everything it can to comply but the monetary estimate is there and they
do not think it likely that money in this amount can be obtained. This
was discussed at some length. Everyone agreed that the benefits to be
derived from the Data Index System are nowhere near worth the expendi-
ture of sums in that amount. I suggested the possible desirability of
requesting an amendment to the Directive. It was suggested also that if
these cost estimates can be substantiated, the Moorhead Committee is apt
to be sympathetic. The consensus essentially was that there was agree-
ment that Defense has a real problem which will have to be tackled by
the Committee, but consideration would be deferred until the symposium
and the hearings before the Congressional committees are behind us,
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4. A new business item, not listed on the Agenda, was intro-
duced by Chairman Rhoads and referred to the Justice and NSC members
for explanation. Essentially, it seems to be this. The President's
Personal Representative for Micronesian Status Negotiations has asked
OMB for classification authority under the Executive Order. OMB
:referred it to the Justice Department for preparation of an appropriate
Executive Order. In considering the matter, Justice noted that the
President, on the recommendation of ICRC, had issued an "Order"
(not an "Executive Order") in September 1972, giving classification
authority to certain departments and officials. It appears that the
September 1972 order may be invalid under E.O. 11652, in view of
provisions in the latter that certain implementing action may be taken
only by "Executive Order", rather than by an "Order". Justice is
concerned that the issuance of an Executive Order for the President's
Personal Representative might tend to confirm the invalidity of the
September 1972 Order. Bill Brown argued that the President's action in
1972 is proper because the President may implement his Executive
orders by any means he chooses. Marvin Smith and Charley Marshall
raised the question of whether ICRC should also require or attempt to
require that ICRC pass on whether or not the President's Personal
Representative needs classification authority. I suggested that the
Committee regard that Justice make whatever legal ruling it deems
proper and if the Justice action raises questions as to the validity
of the September 1972 Order, we could then consider what to do about
it. Chairman Rhoads expressed substantial agreement with this approach
but it was not accepted. The Committee ultimately recommended that
Justice attempt to solve the problem by means other than that of an
Executive Order. In connection with the Smith-Marshall point, I
detected no support for my own view, which is that ICRC should not
attempt to pass on whether the President's Personal Representative
needs classification authority. I think this question will come before
the Committee in due course.
STATINTL
STATINTL cc:
Inspector General
DD /M &S
Mr. Eisenbeiss, CRS
Associate General Counsel
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