LEGISLATIVE INTERDEPARTMENTAL GROUP MEETING, 19 AUGUST 1974

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP77M00144R001200010026-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: December 19, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 22, 2006
• Sequence Number: 26
• Publication Date: August 19, 1974
• Content Type: MFR

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. .: ` ' OLC 74-1869
19 August 1974
MEMORANDUM FOR TIIE RECORD
SUBJECT: Legislative Interdepartmental Group Meeting, 19 August 1974
1. On Monday, 19 August 1974, I attended a meeting of the Legislative
Interdepartmental Group (LIG) in the Roosevelt Room of the White House from
1500 hours until 1620 hours. Tom Korologos chaired in the absence of
Bill Timmons, who was travelling with the President. Those present also
included:
Max Friedersdorf and Pat O'Donnell, White House
Congressional Liaison staff
Assistant Secretary Linwood Holton, with aide, State
Department
Assistant Secretary Jack M. Maury, with aides, Defense
Department
Matthew Harvey, AID
Dick Kennedy and Robert McFarlane, National Security Council
Stan Ebner and B. A. Bridgewater, OMB
Representative of USIA
2. General.
a. Tom Korologos said we will have to play "catch up ball"
until the new Administration settles down and it is more important
than ever to close all. loops, coordinate with sister agencies, and
tie-in back to the White House legislative group in the event we get
queries from some of the new players. While the new theme
obviously is compromise, that doesn't mean sell out, and we should
assume unless we }.hear to the contrary that all existing positions on
legislation are fundamentally sound.
b. Bridgewater recommended that the :President spend an hoar
and a half or so with the leadership to review- concepts and reopen
communications on Congress' legitimate interest in the foreign affairs
ICDF p9cie 1-5 o nD _
E2 ImpDet
Cl by Signer
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area, and the desirability of flexibility for the President as
contrasted with the restrictive measures on executive action
being enacted and proposed within the Congress. All concurred
this was the first order of business.
3. Foreign Assistance Act. There was a review and discussion of
about a dozen troublesome items in the legislation, including:
a. Indochina.-Funding _Levels. Holton made a strong case
against imposing country levels in legislation which inevitably
leads to the development of country lobbies. The President and
the Secretary of State should make appropriate contacts on the Hill.
b. Cambodia Personnel Ceiling. Although it was agreed that the
principle of such a ceiling was objectionable, AID and State claimed
that this was not a high-priority item, and we should not use up too
many chips on this issue.
Phase-out of Militar1 Missions.
d. Cost Reduction of Militar y Missions.
e. Eliminat
ion of Auth.orit to Draw Down DOD Stocks. Korologos
pointed out the if such a provision had been
F
in existence during e October Mideast war.
f. Redefinition of Excess Defense Articles.
g. Military Aid to Korea.
h. Arm Sales Command Channels.
i. Interest Rates on Credit Sales.
j . Restrictions onAid to Chile, Korologos juxtaposed the
assistance Peru is receiving.
k. Striking Presidential Waiver Authorities.
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1. Police Training. I advised of our information that the
amendment by Senator James Abourezk (D. , S. Dak. ), which would
have impaired our functioning, had been narrowed down by the
Committee to apply only to funds authorized under the foreign
assistance bill, although this, of course, did not help AID, and that
this favorable action may well have been taken as a result of the
Director's letter to Senator J. W. Fulbright (D. , Ark. ). I reported
speculation that Representative Michael Harrington (D. , Mass. )
would propose a similarly broad amendment in House committee,
but that he had been soundly defeated on a proposal concerning the
Agency's covert action and may be deterred from introducing
similar amendments. Harvey of AID said Harrington had "shot his
wad" on the bill.
4. DOD Appropriations. It was reported that the bill probably will
come up this week, but that Senator John Tower (R., Tex. ) is nervous that it
may be moving too fast, and that it may he best to defer it until after the recess.
I Isaid there was something to this; Holton's rejoinder was that one seldom
comes back from visiting his constituents with a message to vote more money,
but then agreed wits l observation that the members most likely will be
returning with the definite message that the public wants Congress to support
the President, and this would help sustain the President's position with respect
to the bill.
a. $5 billion Senate cut. The President had attempted to
persuade Senators John L. McClellan (D. , Ark.) and Milton R. Young
(R. , N, Dak.) that the cut was too deep, without success. DOD is
quite confident that in conference they can recoup back one-half of
the difference between the $5 billion Senate cut and the $3. 6 billion
House cut.
b. $700 million MASF ceilin . The tactic, as in the case of the
budget cut, will be strictly defensive to stave off any further cuts.
Senator William Proxmire (D. , Wis. ) may move to cut the MASF
ceiling to $550 or $500 million. Apparently Senator John C. Stennis
(D. , Miss. ) would support a supplemental in January 1975. At
present, even with the stepped-up North Vietnamese activities,
some important sentiment is running against further aid. Some
have even cited the stepped-up activity as evidence that we ought
to get out completely. Congress will be influenced by the situation
in Vietnam at the time the supplemental is submitted.
3
~. 1 ?r
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c. Troop Reduction of 25, 000. Senators Mike Mansfield
(D. , Mont. ), Hubert H. Humphrey (D. , Minn. ), or others may
propose a greater troop cut, and Maury is preparing papers to
be used to oppose a 75, 000; 50, 000; and 25, 000 troop cut.
d. Miscellaneous. In regard to the reduction of RDT&E,
efforts with Senator McClellan would be counterproductive, but
there is some hope that Senator Thomas J. McIntyre (D. , N. H. )
might be helpful. The problem, as explained, is that the
Committee lumped together a large number of small, worthwhile
programs, believing that it was one large program and could
stand the reduction. Finally, a "Dear Colleague" letter is being
circulated to impose a $295 billion overall spending limit.
5. State Authorization.
a. Base Agreements. Quick Senate action on that bill with
its assorted amendments was due to the presence of the Russian
parliamentarians and a wish to impress them that the Congress
can move fast. Chairman Wayne L. Hays (D. , Ohio), Subcommittee
on State Department Organization and Foreign Operations, House
Foreign Affairs Committee, has promised that the Committee would
report out a clean bill, and was confident he could eliminate the
Senate amendments except: for the Clifford P. Case (R. , N. J. )
amendment requiring congressional approval of base agreements
involving military personnel strength of 500 or more. If passed,
Holton would recommend a veto. It is counterproductive to approach
Case, as he is wedded to the concept.
b. Role of the Ambassador. Korologos said the most pressing
problem was the role of the ambassador amendment, and I.reported
our conversation with IIays this morning and work with Al Westphal,
Foreign Affairs Committee staff, and Congressmen Peter H. B.
Frelinghuysen (R. , N. J. ), Dante B. Fascell (D. , Fla. ), and
Vernon W. Thomson (R. , Wis. ). McFarlane cautioned that we not
compromise on principle, and I said we were only talking about a
back-up position in the event an amendment is proposed and cannot
be defeated on the floor, and that the constitutional argument against
thy' proposition appeared to appeal to Hays,
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c. Cuba. Korologos tried to get a sense of the group on the
provision dealing with the review of U. S. policy toward Cuba,
but the only statements hedged.
d. Rhodesian Chrome. Apparently there is a paper on the
President's desk pointing out the adverse affects of our policy,
but that past failures to repeal the Byrd amendment have not
led to disastrous results.
6. Miscellaneous. Ex ort--import legislation was raised, but
interested no one. Also reported that the Navy was terribly unhappy
about the 200-mile terri oria limit proposed in the bill by Senator Warren
G. Magnuson (D. , Wash. ) and read from a message from Senator Ted Stevens
(R. , Alaska), one of the advisers to the U. S. delegation to the United Nations
Law of the Sea Conference, alarmed over the adverse impact on the Conference
of any action on the bill, and requesting that Senate Foreign Relations Committe
members be alerted. The bill is now bottled up for the duration of the
Conference by joint referral to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,
where it will repose for at least 21 day-s-
Distribution:
Orig - Subject file
l - LLM Chrono
1 - OLC Chrono
OLC:LLM:cg (22 Aug 74)
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JOURNAL
OFFICE OF LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL
Friday - 16 August 1974
2. (Internal Use Only - TJLM) Called Al Westphal, Senior Staff
Consultant, House Foreign Affairs Committee, and gave him a report on My
contacts with Representatives Peter H. B. Frelinghuysen (R. , N. J. ) and
t ])ante B. Fascell (D. , Fla. ) yesterday on the role of the ambassador legislation.
I asked if he had contacted Chairman Wayne L. Hays (D. , Ohio), Subcommittee
on State Department Organization and Foreign Operations, on the subject.
Westphal agreed that we have to get Chairman Hays fully aboard; explained
that he had not had a chance to talk to Hays on the matter since he sees him
infrequently, and then only for short periods; and asked that we deal directly
with Hays, recommending we do so on Monday since it is likely there will be
a rush of legislation to the floor to clean the calendar before the upcoming recess.
3. (Internal Use Only - LLM) Called Elaine Heslin, Administrative
Assistant to Representative Wayne L. Hays (D. , Ohio), explaining our interest
,,;,iii talking with him regarding the role of theamba. o legislation (see
Item r2 above). She said she would see what she could do for Monday.
4. (Internal Use Only - LLM) Called Kempton Jenkins, Department
of State Congressional Relations office, concerning the above matter (Item __if
gave him a status report on our contacts with members of them Foreign Affairs
Comrn.i.ttee and with A]. Westphal, Senior Staff Consultant, House Foreign
Affairs Committee; and our intent to see Chairman Wayne L. Hays (D. , Ohio).
Jenkins appreciated our closing the loop with him and said to be sure that we
remind Chairman Flays that he (Jenkins) had spoken to Hays previously about
this. irnt' n'i%ii\/
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Journal - Office of Legislative Counsel
Thursday - 15 August 1974
/ 6. (Internal Use Only - LLM) Met with Representative Dante B. Fascell
k/ (D. , Fla.) concerning the possible role of the ambassador le islatior stressing
that Al Westphal, Senior Staff Consultant, House Foreign Affairs Committee,
had recommended that he would be interested in information on this subject,
and he agreed that he would support our position on the basis that reate
is speaking for Chairman Wayne L. Hays (D., Ohio), Subcommittee on State
Department Organization and Foreign Operations. Mr. Fascell, who feels the
Agency does an important and good job, remarked that legislation such as this
stemmed from the problem that we do not let ambassadors in our code room,
and just the general murkiness of the question of who really takes the responsi-
bility for directing a covert operation. In the ensuing, discussion it was clear
that Mr. Fascell still is in our corner, that some of his concern about the
Agency is "old hat" back to the Bay of Pigs situation, and possibly an expression
of understandable interest of a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee that
it makes no sense that jurisdiction of the Agency be lodged exclusively in the
Armed Services Committee. In response to my prodding, he conceded that
perhaps Chairman Lucien N. Nedzi. (D., Mich.) is doing a good job, but
Fascell is not necessarily persuaded that the present situation is in the
best interest of the Agency or the Congress, feeling a joint committee may be
the answer. Again he agreed that these matters were not for ad hoc resolution
on the floor of the House, but were deserving of careful deliberation. He also
conceded that Mr. Colby had gone much further than halfway in opening up
areas so that there could be a better understanding of what we do and what
we don't do.
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Journal - Office of Legislative Counsel
Thursday - 15 August 1974
3. (Internal Use Only - LLM) Al Westphal, Senior Staff Consultant,
House Foreign Affairs Committee, reported that Bill Adams, from the House
''Legislative Counsel office, was now drafting language to be substituted if a
Muskie-type amendment on the role of the ambassador overseas is proposed
on the floor during the consideration of the State authorization bill. Westphal
believes that even if the matter does not come up on the floor, our work is
not in vain since it is an issue which will have to be settled in conference. He
also recommended that we contact Representatives Peter H. B. Frelinghuysen
(R., N. J.) and Dante B. Fascell (D. , Fla.) on this matter and restated his
interest that we contact the members of our oversight committees for support
if needed. We sent to Westphal copies of President Kennedy's 1961 letter
and President Nixon's 1969 letter concerning the role of the ambassador.
5. (Internal Use Only - LLM) In the absence of Representative
Peter H. B. Frelinghuysen (R. , N. J.), met with his Administrative Assistant,
Kent Crane, and reviewed our problems with enactment of role of the
--'a"mbassador legislation as' part of the State authorization bill. I left with
him a package including suggested language change if an amendment similar
to the Muskie amendment is moved on the House floor; Deputy Secretary
Clements' letter to Chairman Thomas E. Morgan (D., Pa. ), House Foreign
Affairs Committee, on this subject; and the instructional letters of 1961 and
1969 issued by President Kennedy and President Nixon. I made it clear that
we were providing this information at the suggestion of Al Westphal, Senior
Staff Consultant, House Foreign Affairs Committee, and Crane expressed
no problem at all with our position.
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Journal - Office of Legislative Counsel
Wednesday - 14 August 1974
g, (Confidential - LLM) Met with Representative Vernon W.
Thompson (R., Wis.) at Al Westphal's, Staff Consultant, I-louse Foreign
Affairs Committee, suggestion and briefed him on the ramifications of the
p-Muskie amendment and he agreed the results would be adverse to the nation's
interest. I reviewed with him a number of the arguments that could be made
on the floor without involving the Agency and he felt they would be effective
and in line with his thinking. I also gave him a copy of the language which
would modify the amendment and assure the exibi ity Mat exists under the curren?_
eme s
159 Presidential letter and a copy oepu y ecretary x yam
OD, letter to Chairman Thomas E. Morgan on this subject. In response
I told him that I could not be sure what prompted the Muskic
er
.hi
y,
s qu
to
amendment but to the extent that it may be aimed at the Agency it was unneeded,
especially following the Presidential letter of 1961, clearly establishing the
ambassador in his leadership role over the various agencies in the country
of his assignment. I admitted to the possibility that in any specific country
there may be conflicts of personality or differing capabilities, but this
certainly would be the rare exception and not the rule, although 20 years ago
or so there may well have been grounds for complaints over lack of effective
coordination involving activities abroad.
.In response to his question, explained I was not sure of the precise
attitude of Chairman Morgan or Representative Hays (D. , Ohio) to the matter
but thought it would be supportive of our position and we had been 'in touch
with Representative Hays' office to advise that we were providing necessary
material for Representative I-lays to Westphal. Representative Thompson was
.'rateful of the alert on this problem before the debate on the State Authorization
bill which is scheduled tomorrow afternoon.
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