THE CIA RETIREMENT BOARD CONVENED AT 2:00 P.M. ON THURSDAY,

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP78-03092A000500090002-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 28, 2000
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: May 23, 1968
• Content Type: MIN

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SECTS
. . . The CIA RETIREMEN`T' BOARD convened at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday,
23 May 1968, with the following present:
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bet's start with the minutes of the last meeting.
May I ask if Mr. _ has been notified there will be no
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We can't send them till the end of the month.
.ut it would be the intent to inform him?
es.
Any other discussion or additions or corrections?
(No response.)
Mr. airman
Mr. Member
Mr. P Member
Mr. Member
Dr. Member
Mr. Member
Mr. , legal Adviser
Mis ical Adviser
Mr. Executive Secretary
Mis Recording Secretary
Okay, we will accept the minutes as presented and go on to our
first case, item A, which will be a vested right to remain in the system for
Mr.
25X1 A9a MR. - I move we offer him an election.
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. . . . This motion was then passed . . . .
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MR. 1111111 The next case is
retiring early at
age 52. He meets all the requirements of eligibility for retirement.
MR. I move we recommend favorably on the request to retire.
MR. M Second.
. . . . This motion wasthen passed . .
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YR. Does anybody know whether we regret seeing his departure?
Is he one of those the Agency would like to hang on to? I think it would be
interesting to have the statistics.
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MR. ~ I think in most cases that have come up so far the
career service inlicated they were more than willing to have them leave.
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MR. E He is fairly young
MR. It might answer some of those questions if the correspondence
were attached to the Agenda.
M.R. Where they really hope to have them go they don't usually
1 ike to put it in writing. Do you think it would be worth the effort, Paul, to
try to get some statistics on this?
MB. _ I do because it seems to me we ought to at some time
periodically evaluate whether the purpose of the Act is in fact being achieved.
MR. - Wouldn't it be a good idea then to, at some future date or
maybe at the present time, take our total list of early retirements, go back to the
o ffice concerned and find out how many of these they regretted losing?
MR. After that you could do it just as a matter of course like
you make your opinions as you go along.
MR. Do we make any periodic evaluation of the retirement system
for anyone or any reports?
MR. - Not in that sense. Right now I am working on a report
we can use when we go on the cost of living increase.
1,;R. It might be worthwhile to try it because I can see how the
Director or whoever is appearing might be asked a question: "How effective has
this retirement system been?"
MR. I have a feeling on any one they really did not want
to retire they have been able to talk him into staying on. I think. I know of
a couple of cases.
25X1A9a MR. Iet's table this for a moment. I think some evaluation of
that system might be timely and should be done.
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Our next two cases are requests for extension of service. Mr.
has had two retirement dates set for him. Originally he would have
gone March 31, 1970 then when we changed the policy it was cut back to June
1969 and now he requests that he be permitted to remain until June 1970. His
reasons are that he originally wanted to retire at 65, that he still will have it
child in graduate study --
MR. -- not graduate --
MR. -- undergraduate. Retirement in 1969 would have coincided
with the completion of undergraduate study.
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MR. I feel particularly keen about this because I recruited
the man. He was at the time with no intention of
working for the Government. He didn't want to leave. I had served with him in
the Navy and thought he was a valuable addition. He is the kind of guy that
asks all the right questions.
25X1A9a M,R. - What is this man likely to do when he retires - go back to
teaching?
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to, give up his home which he built not far from here just a few years ago when
~'MR. He probably may tie back with the academic coruuunity.
I don't know. I think the biggest thing that he feels will be necessary will be
we still had the old policy. In other words, he felt he would still be here till
perhaps 65 and certainly not earlier than 62.
MR. - I appreciate the point but probably many retirees -- perhaps
even most -- give up their homes when they do retire and move into smaller
facilities. I know I expect to sell mine. I thought maybe he would probably go
back to teaching and --
MR. - -- as a Dean. He hasn't taught. I don't know. He
obviously hasn't negotiated seriously this far in advance.
MR. His extension to March 31, 1970 would be automatic under
present policy so it is really a question of whether we are going to deviate
from what is virtually automatic for three more months.
25X1A9a MR. Does anyone feel strongly against this?
I)R. It is from March to June?
M4. Yes. Actually if it were not for the three months, under
present policy, it would not have come under this Board.
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for an orderly transfer from his present occupation to either retirement or
another occupation and not necessarily because of financial hardship. It was
just for an orderly transfer.
MR. I'd like to say under the old Board when they were handling
Civil aervice cases there was no hesitancy on the part of the old Bca rd to grant
two or three or five or six months to an individual if they felt that necessary
MR. Does anybody object to this three months? (No response.)
okay, let's approve it.
This case fascinates me because of the absence
of, I think, relevant information. I wonder if what is being proposed here is
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to her best interest? Let me point out some arithmetic. Her salary is now
$8,759 and if I deduct six and a half percent retirement that gives her
$8,190. If I applied income tax at the minimum rate of 20 percent I would
bring it down to $6,1+39. Her annuity at the earliest indicated -- December
31, 1968, would be $51+71, meaning that there is only a reduction in expendable
i noome of $969. Here is a skilled and trained secretary steno office worker.
She could retire and go out and obviously augment her income by a bare
minimum of three to four thousand a year and it seems to me her best interest
almost dictates that she retire now rather than hanging on. I think I could
convince her of that in about five minutes' time. To me she would be utterly
25X1A9a foolish not to move on. brought to my attention the fact that
she has an accumulation of sick leave of only 98 hours which is almost rather
shocking to me for a person of her years of service unless she had a very
unfortunate health record.
25X1A9a Here it says her health is exceptionally good.
25X1A9a M.. _ I don't understand whether this is in error. It seems to
me we really know nothing about her husband who seems to be a key factor. He is
reported to have had an auto accident from which he has only recently recovered.
The thought occurred to me maybe she was out on sick leave. Can you take sick
leave to take care of --
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MISS _ No -- contageous illness only.
1,IR. I don't know whether her husband is employed again or whether
he is retired or what he is.
Perhaps what happened, Emmett, for the past umpteen years
she hasn't been working as a steno. She doesn't want to go out and. get into that
market again. Looking at the description of her jobs the last thing she has been
is something called an intell assistant.
ME. I think she probably qualifies for other work. It's not
a case of not getting another job in some cases as it is a case of not wanting
to start another career that may be a very short one.
MR. _ The memo says we are convinced her financial situation is
such that she will be required to work for a period of several years beyond
December 1968. I think particularly under these circumstances she will be
financially better off if she goes to another job now. It doesn't make sense.
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25X1A9a 1,!R. _ Maybe you have raised enough questions to table the case aj-46
have someone in Personnel discuss the implications of her case.
25X1A9a MR. E Did she receive a five-year letter saying she retires at 60'
F.M. I have a hunch if someone were to talk to her and bring
to her attention the item of non-taxability and no more retirement deductions she
can get a job in industry and greatly augment her family income she might see the
thing in a different light entirely. I'd like to table.it and have someone counsel
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ould this be a problem for the Retirement Counseling Staff?
MISS ither that or our Technical Branch --
MR. it makes sense to me.
office used to go into things like this
on the husband. Do we still do that? I think we ought to know whether the
husband is still working and whether his income has been effected unless we
M... permanently limits his earning capacity ..."
MR. It may be that her hospital coverage is very important to
her. I don't know what the facts are. I think counseling with her and at least
dig out the facts may change her mind or give us more information. It is agreed we tabl(
that and do confer with the individual.
I have some new business. It is a shame to bring this up. We have
approved the voluntary retirement of Mr. as of 31 May 1968.
The Division requests that his retirement be deferred to June 30, 1968. It is a
matter of one month in order that they may have time to debrief and administratively
process him. I am sure we all agree. It is still voluntary. I would hope I could
make a phone call and have them say, yes. It's silly to send a piece of paper up
to formalize this thing. All in agreement? (No response.)
Is there aiy other business?
MR. I'd like to ask about retirement of reserve appointees. The
case I had in mind is this, that the individual got the letter but we would like
him to extend till he is 62 and he would like to, however, there is a request
cutstanding for his reserve appointment to age 60. I think there is a conflict
b etween regulations and policy on retirement in regard to reserve appointees.
can't verify this but I think the regulation says reserve appointees must not be
continued to beyond 60. Is this true?
MISS I think it is in some policy paper. I think it has to go
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to the Director if you want to keep them after that. The problem in this case
is ever having sent a reserve appointee a five-year letter in the first place.
Unfortunately, that is not the only one.
MR. One purpose of reserve appointment was giving the Agency
absolute control over the employment and this sending out the letter was
inconsistent with the terms of his employment.
MR. It happens in this case he is a linguist -- very valuable
and a retired Lieutenant Colonel of the Army. His civilian grade is onlyGS-11.
He would get more total retirement pay by continuing his military retirement anc'
not credit Civil Service retirement. In most cases it works the other way but in
his case it would not if he continued until he was age 62.
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MR. ~ I think you should go by the reserve appointment. This is
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his contractual tenure.
MR. - If he doesn't count his military he doesn-!t have enough to
retire so he has to stay until he is 62.
MR. - Retirement age has nothing to do with it. As tenure is
determined by his reserve appointment and if it is extended for a Period it is
extended. I don't think you should disregard that we have a retirement policy in
requesting extension of his reserve appointment because cases like this do
create an unfortunate comparison between staff and others, perhaps.
There was some kind of policy pronouncement on this.
I think it was a paper the Director approved.
Recognizing the conflict that could arise.
I think you can't carry him beyond age 60 unless the
MR.
MISS
MR.
MISS
25X1A9a Director approves.
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MR. 1111111 Should we track down this issuance for Mr. - -- whatever
that calls for?
MR. Since this man apparently got letters, even though he shouldn't
have, the question of adhering to the original letter.
25X1A9a MMMR. - I think the letters have no bearing on the case. They
can't change his status. I would frankly recommend on those other reserves who
were notified I would let them know they were sent letters in error. It is
important they know and realize their appointment expires at such and such a
date, otherwise they could be misled terribly.
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MR. - We have a request outstanding in this case for an
extension for this man. The extension would take him to age 60. It's a question
of amending that request to carry him two years beyond that. That's consistent
w ith policy and I see no reason why it can't be done.
MR.~ I would look at policy and write it up according to
what your needs are.
MR. Someobdy sent me this Federal Spotlight on voluntary
stock purchases for retirement benefits. It might be something the Agency
would want to consider particularly for those who don't have a long; tenure
a nd would need to supplement their income.
MR. The Agency is considering this and has it wider study
at the present time. Colonel White picked this up and asked Personnel to do some
research. It is a voluntary savings plan -- payroll deduction -- with money
being invested in some form of a semi-mutual or mutual stock. At least, I judge
that is what this is. The VA has it?
Yes.
An off-the-record discussion of the stock purchase
plan followed . . . .
MR. At the last meeting I believe
see that a memo went forward to the Director on the right to extend for administrative
reasons for sixty days.
MISS We have drafted a memo on that which would delegate such
authority to D/Pers and to the General Counsel for extensions beyond the mandatory
retirement date. I don't know who has it. Jim, we sent it to carry and he said
he turned it over to somebody to look into.
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NR. How long ago?
MISS M: Last week. He said he was sending us a quasi-legal opinion on
it. I'm not sure what he is going to say.
25X1A9a . MR. -: I talked to harry about this once. He said he doesn't
believe the Director has the legal authority but who is ever going to say
anything about it.
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MR. -: -- unless the Agency is the one who is going to object.
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Chances of him going overseas again are good. I'm
going to talk further with about it and see. Maybe he would be
interested in an assignment in Vietnam. He only lacks seven months.
MR. What about the 11(c) route?
MR. We have a memo from DDP that he has no domestic service
consideration under that.
25X1A9a HR. John says we cannot leave him in. We have to take him out.
MR. It is highly unlikely that he will get overseas this ye~x.
MR. It seems to me he has a perfect right to contend he has
domestic --
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?. The DDP sent me a memo that he doesn't have.
25X1A9a IvlR. EI wonder if Murray could say a word about this list. I
25X1A9a keep looking for people we have talked ^bout here. For instance, why isn't _
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The meeting ended at 2:40 p.m. . . . .
on this list. His retirement 1s pending.
MR. Because of space problems I only go about three months
ahead of time. That includes May, June and July unless they have signed. The
only reason I put those (indicating) on is because they had signed.
Is there any other business? (No response.)
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