(UNTITLED)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP78-03092A000800160002-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Creation Date: November 11, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 10, 1999
• Sequence Number: 2
• Content Type: MIN

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. The 152nd meeting of the CIA RETIR~NT BOARD convened
at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday, ~+ February 1971, with the fallowing present:
25X1A9a
MR. FISHER: I have a couple of turn-grounds from upstairs -- that is,
they reversed us. - was the TSD man and --
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25X1 C
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1~~. FISHER: Right. The IG recommended reversing us an this one and
Colonel White called me and by that tune I knew they had recommended this and I
said, "I understand the Board has been reversed," and he said, "'Nat yet." He ILL E GIB
apparently did some very personal digging and satisfied himself and apparently
the Director knew this guy. He was one of the original That's
what he was brought here for. You will also be interested "in writing this the ILL E GIB
IG reached s little too far. I took it back to Colonel White and had him put
something on it. (Mr, Fisher then read paragraph 5,a.} I said to Colonel White,
"I'm not arguing your reversal but let's not let this stand in the record as a
reason." Many people want to serve overseas. So then we went to 5.b,, which got
t a the , and 5.d. is okay but 5.c. -- and this is frau~ the IG --
(Mr. Fisher then read paragraph 5.c.) I said, "That is not early retirement."
He wrote an the bottom, "5.a. and c. are weak arguments and should not be ,given
great weight. 5.b. and d., together with the oral presentation by 25X1A9a
were persuasive." I wanted you to know what happened to 25X1A9a
25X1A9a Iie had no overseas?
MR. FISHER: He had some I believe -- very little though -- and we have
been batting pretty well here. There is another case, and I think there is a mess,~~;e
25X1A9a in this too. The Director reversed us an
of a year and the Director approved it but only until 30 June, which cuts it in half.
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is 62 and this takes her to 63. The message I got pretty clearly
is that the Director is inclined to be pretty liberal on low graded people up
to age 62, but beyond age~62 he doesn't like it, and he cut her back. On - 25X1A9a
25X1 Aga ~~ " ' " ~`~~~ ~'~
- GS-5, Telephone Operator, is making appear before him to 25X1A
testify that he finds it hard to hire a telephone operator.
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We thought those were proforma.
MR. FISHER: It's the fact that she is 65 that seems to bother him.
Although she is 65 she has been with us only from 1959 and would go out on
a $1,500 annuity and I can't see how he would turn her down, but I think he wants
to be well fortified when he goes to the Director because the Director doesn't
like over 62.
25X1A9a
aren't we cutting off our noses because
there is nobody to da the rest of theesection - she is the only one qualified to
do the IV'E history.
MR. FISHER: If there is anything that bothers the Director more than
age &2 it is to hear that they are writ'iaistory.
25X1A9a That was in the paper signed off that that would not be an
excuse or reason for anybody.
25X1A9a
MR. FISHER: And he raises that, so that is not a good one,
I3e signed the case -- another extension beyond 62 in the
25X1A
Civil Service Retirement System. He sent it back down to me with a note and said,
25X1 Aga ~~y~y isn't - in the CIARDS?" We checked and the answer is a rather
25X1A9a
simple one. This has never been documented. It slipped all along the way.
Is this the -case?
25X1A9a
MR. FISHER: Yes. So I suggested to Colonel White, to bail out of this
one, since he is inclined to turn down her exte~~ion, that because of the unusual
circumstances I'd like to recommend we put her in CIARDS and turn down the one
dear extension and he said, "Well, if you think so but I don't want to set a
precedent." I won't bother you with. all the details of the research that Ben
?5X1A9a did for me, but it all boiled down when they got the
ca11-up :&~.grsaid she has passed 60 sa she can't get in anymore and was declared
ineligible. She has never been through the retirement system in any way. He
stumbled on this by accident.
25X1A9a Det"s get to ~ecause she is sitting outside. I must admit
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I shot pretty quick from the hip to decide to get her in here. You probably 25X1A6a
remember this case. She was out in - She was an -type and was due F OIAb3 b1
to be retired 31 January 19?1 when she would become age 60. DDP made the pitch
for her, saying the Board will go along with an extension to 30 November 1971 --
a 10 months extension -- we would like to return her to Headquarters for home
leave and back to - in Octaber 1969 far a two year tour ending
October 1971, have a month to retire and go out. If we bought this deal she
25X1A6a
=01Ab3 b1 would transfer from ~o DDP. 1'he Board so recommended. They had no compaxabl.e
?5X1 A6a
language capability and it seemsed reasonable to us and the Director
concurred. Then sort of unbeknownst to us the plans changed and DDP decided,
instead of sending her home in August or whatever time it was, they woi~~l.d let her
extend until March 1970. She them returned to headquarters in rSarch 1970. fit th~?t
point she had earndd her 60 months, She went through the fu,11 process and
25X1Aga reje~tedt~HDS and you (indicating ~ being a good administrator, instead
of blindly accepting that said,, did she know --
25X1A9a
Yes, I wanted to bring it up to date.
Mft. FISIiERs She said she would like to work as long as she can. The
question really raised wae, since the original extension approval was for a new
25X1 A6a -fur in - would we say now that she is back home we pull that back and she
goes out as originally scheduled and, frankly, i was not about to go back to the Director.
I said, no, if she is going to stay in Civil Service we will let things stand until
November 1971 as originally promised e~ren though she didn't complete her tour, which
-r~an't no further action need to taken, Okay, now based on her new request, she is asking
far another year beyond November which, in her case, will not take her past age
62, but she is a GS-11. I might inject at this moment that in the - case 25X1A9a
25X1A9a Colonel White said, "I have had _ up here trying to cut the ceiling," and he
says, "I'm about to help him." So the question that I'm raising -- because I just
don't think we can wake this compassion -- is that she says she has a sister who
ehe has to support. She doesn't have a sister listed as a dependent anywhere here
and, having"rouble with Colonel White on I just 25X1A9a
thought before we move ahead on this I would like to hear a little more fxom her
as to what her compassionate problem is so we will get her in.
25X1A9a then joined the meeting . .
. .
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MR. FISHER: yours has been kind of an interesting case
and I want to run back through this. As you know, extensions these days come
rather hard because of the r~,quirement to get down the ceiling. We are overstren~rth and
extensions are not easy to come by and the Board wants to be assured of all
the facts. Originally you were granted an extension. I'm sure it was an honest
25X1A6a request on the basis of your returning to ~fvr another two year tour and
25X1A9a
the Board didn't have too much trouble with that. It was a l~~,itimate operational
requixement so in effect you got a 10 months extension. Subsequently, and I
really don't know all the reasons --
I wouldn't like to have to recount them.
riSR. FISHER: In any event you did finally return and it was a question
of how valid was the original extension since it was recommended on the basis of
25X1A6a your staying in - and signed aff by the Director on that basis, I
25X1A9a believe I tallied to -at the time and he said to let it go the way it is
dad let the November date stand. I guess that brings us up to date in which you
are asking for an additional year.
25X1A9a yeS,
MR. FISHER: You seem to be placing a great deal of weight on
the compassion. As far as we know your sister is not listed as a dependent and
I wonder, can you tell us something about it?
25X1A9a yes, she is a dependent. She has no income at all fray
25X1A6a anyone. She lives at and I live in Virginia because of the
convenience to t'ne office.
NLR. FISIiER: By herself?
25X1 Aga yes, in the house which we own mutually and I live in
Virginia, and I ply all the money far her and her Toad. file live apart. I couldn'i;
live with her. She has some wonderful points but she is alder than I am. I have
always been the "baby" and she is strong-willed and I'm not able tv have her
accommodate to anything at all that I want. It's a small house. She has 3 dogs --
one died, praise be, leaving two and a cat< It would be too inconvenient for me,
Aside from al_l that, it would be too inconvenient for me to transport myself to
Roslyn. In any case, it's playing for time. She has heart trouble. Her
physical condition is mixed up with her emotional mental attitude so she feels
terribly abused and ynu have to walk on eggs with her. She is ld years older than
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I, so it's a little difficult,
Rte. FISHER: She never had Social Security?
No, she was a lawyer. She got her degree from
Fordham -- she was one of the first women lawyers -- in 1930 and joined a law
firm. She r s an exceedingly good mind. Somewhere in her emotional --
MR. FIS1iER; She never saved anything?
No, she never had to. My father was wealthy. He was a
doctor. fie lost it in the crash. bIy father was still paying her dress bills
when she was living with, him. She is someone who lives in another age. She does~~'t
belong here. I'm not about to say, "Look, sister, this is this age".
MR. FISHER: Does she get any type of welfare?
She had medical care and Ipaid the premiums and she
gets doctor bills paid but not for dentists and eye examinations.
P~tR. FISI~R; If she is truly without any funds I would think she could
apply fax same sort of welfare.
Something like this happened accidentally and them swirl,
"How are you living?"' and she said, "My sister," and so we are the genteel poor.
NZf~. FISI~; And you have another sister?
I have a sister who moved back to New York. G1e are
originally from New York. She is a widowed sister and lives a]most parsimoniously
in New Yark. She moved there because she could get a cheaper apartment in
Brooklyn someplace and more convenient for her because she has double with her
legs and she has diabetis and what not.
MR. FIS1iER; So you have to send her money?
I sent her some. Not a great deal but I may have to he."f.p
her some more. She has some doctor bills and you know what that is. She is livi:~z~
on a rather well invested insurance from her husband's passing. That's the story.
MR. FISHER; Does anyone else have any questions?
I have a gratuitous comment, I'm not an authority on
Social Security but it is my recollection at age 70, whetYier you have had any
Security
Sacial~~average ar not, you are entitled to a pension.
I think I heard age 72. Now, you know it might be
another year or so.
MR. FIS1iER: Ask our retirmment people about that.
Yes. I didn't bather to make any definite steps in
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that direction because they told me it was 72.
MR. FISHER: It seems to me when you get to be 70 and have no income at
all - the fact that you wark here and have to support yourself - I think it
will be quite obvious you won't have enough to keep her in style and I think
there would be a chance for something else.
I have forgotten the particulars but I do recall they
25X1 Aga think she gave up too quickly.
That's another thing of her background. You have to
realize she belongs in an age where she didn't have to scratch for anything and she
has been sheltered. Where she is Ltp on the latest events probably more than anyone
in this room but in the other facet she is not at all there,
MR. FISIiER: But if you would retire she has a real problem and I think.
she wou7_d have to apply for something.
25X1A9a Certainly I could be ruthless if I were to say, "So long,
I'm leaving" but one doesn't do that.
MR. FISHER: But a reduced amount of money is going to reduce your --
25X1A9a
I'm now beginning to try to get it across to her. At
best it will be another year and a half and then we have to face it.
NII',. FISHER: You might even have to get together.
25X1A9a yes, but in that case I wanted to get the idea across
gradually that she has to make some accommodations. This sounds funny to you, bvt
there are problems and I can't remake her and I'm not tough enough to say,
"Sorry, I'm leaving you. T..ake care of yourself." I can.'t do it.
MR. FISIH;R: Does anybody else have anything? ~~io response) I think
that will do it.
25X1A9a Thank. you very much for your consideration.
25X1 Aga then left the room .
MR. FISHER: I'm sure you all realize I don't enjoy putting people through
this sort of thing but as you get run over the coals upstairs, it helps mare whet
you have seen them and you can talk with a little more feeling. Coming as it does
on the heels of similar cases, except she is not 62, I don't know how you feel but
I'm still willing to recommend we give her the extension based on compassionate
grounds.
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The extension is no problem as far as
is concerned. There are a lot of good linguists, sure, and you can get someone
in time but they never take the place of the older ones.
MR. FISHER: These are some of the things we should put in the reference.
F OIAb3 b1 There is no surplus problem in _ .Her efficiency remains unimpaired and
25X1 Aga quoting which. is even stronger, her extension will be
advantageous to the Agency and the FOIAb3b1
25X1A9a I told him I recommend we endorse it and he took it dust
the way I worded it.
MR. FISHER: I'm not saying we ignore the compassionate aspect. The
Board did meet with her and I am satisfied she is supporting her sister but
I put much more on the other. Would anyone care to make a motion?
25X1A9a
I move she be approved.
I second.
. . This motion was then passed .
MR. FISI-]ER: Tiave you all had a chance to review the AZinutes? If
there are no additions or deletions we let them stand as written. (No response.}
We move on to A. We have three employees who have completed their
15 years of Agency service and appear to meet the criteria for designation as
participants in the System.
25X1A9a
I so move.
Second.
. This motion was then passed . . .
MR. FISHER: We have the 5 year types, four of them appear to meet the
criteria for designation as participants in the System.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
I so move.
Second.
. . . This motion was then passed . .
MR. FISI~R: Then we have two applications for voluntary retirement.
_ 31 July 1971, age 52, 22 years Federal service and 1I+ years
25X1A9a
Agency service, qualifying service 100 months, and rehires
10 September, age 56, Federal service 2~+ years and Agency service 20 years.
Qualifying service 110 months. I see no problem. I'd like a motion.
7
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Do you want to add the others?
from 25X1 Aga
DDP. He would like to ,get out on the l~+th of May 1971, and another DDP taan,
31 P~4ay 1971, May I have a motion?
I move.
Second.
. The motion was then passed .
A'!R. FISHER: And under D. we have one man for involuntary retirement --
25X1 Aga - again, voluntary involuntary -- under CIARDS.
25X1 Aga Fifty percent annuity.
re you going to start the requirement of some statement #rom
the component about the desireability of this type of case?
. The meeting then went off the record . .
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
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25X1A9a
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25X1A9a
P/iR. FISHER: I don't see any problem with - May I have a motion?
I move.
second.
NIR, FISHER: Okay, then we go to He is up for his 15th
anniversary review. I don't have his age. I assume he will be better off under
IIe had the 15th anniversary review and he returned it
and said he wanted out. He has 35 years.
MR. FISIiER: From here on he will be better off under Civil Service.
tide have more or less agreed anyone better off under another system is fr+~e to change.
Technically he could stay in for another 10 months and
still be better off but he could not make another move fora year's time.
NZR. FISHER: Yes. She has ~+9 months of qualifying
service but is shy 10. DDP has indicated no domestic qualifying; service to be
considered. She understands that she is about to be transfered out of CIARDS.
I see no problem. Agreed? (No response.)
. The meeting ended at 2:x+5 p.m. . . .
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