CIA CAREER SERVICE BOARD 10 March 1953

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80-01826R000500050002-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 43
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 7, 2000
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: March 10, 1953
• Content Type: MIN

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5th Meeting
Original only 25X1 A9a
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10 March 1953
Present
Mr. Walter Reid Wolf
Lieutenant General W. H. H. Morris, Jr.
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25X1A9a
Mr. Robert Amory, Jr.
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1-T-in I'
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MR. WOLF: We will call the meeting to order. The minutes of the
4th meeting of the CIA Career Service Board held 15 January 153 have been
distributed. Are there any corrections or conmients to those minutes? If
not, we can consider the minutes approved as distributed.
The second and most important item on the Agenda is the "Nomination
of Chairman of the CIA Career Service Board, for the period 1 March 1953
-until 30 June 1953." The CIA Notice _ say 1A "The Chairman of the
Board will be one of the Deputy Directors, each of whom will serve suc-
cessively for a term of four months." The term of the present Chairman
25X1A
(the DD/A) was extended by CIA Notice - for the period 1 November
1952 through 28 February 1953. The Chairman has hitherto been appointed
by the DCI on the recommendation of the Board. I see that the 28th of
February is over, and I am now acting illegally. I would ask for nomina-
tions for the Chairman of this Board to serve for the next three months'
period -- March, April, and May.
COLONEL BAIRD: I nominate the DD/P.
GENERAL MORRIS: I second the nomination.
MR. WOLF: Any comments? Any other nominations? If not, all in favor
of the DD/P say aye. (All said aye.) All opposed say no. (No one said
no.) The DD/P is now the Chairman, and if he were here he could take the
chair.
COLONEL BAIRD: Mr. Wolf, this probably need not go on the record
because I am asking for information.
(Off the record)
MR. WOLF: The third item is on the subject of hazardous duty pay.
It stated in the agenda "further consideration of Regulation proposed
at 4th Meeting on 15 January 1953 and tabled. See Comments by the Career
Service Boards of the DD/P area, (attached)."
I have in front of me a memorandum dated 3 March on the subject of
Hazardous Duty by direction of 9D/P and signed by Chief
of Administration, DD/P. It reads : 25X1A9a
1. The DD/P Career Service Board desires to defer recom-
mendations on reference proposal pending the availability of the
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2. It is requested that we be given an opportunity to review
the Strauss report when available.
3. It is also requested that matters of general interest
to the DD/P organization, referred from the CIA Career Service
Board, be addressed to the DD/P Career Service Board only and not
to the Senior Staff Career Service Boards of the DD/P. The DD/P
Career Service Board will undertake to provide necessary internal
coordination and report the official DD/P position in such cases.
The first part of the request is that no action be taken on the
matter of hazardous duty pay until such time as the Strauss report is
available for study, and is there any further comment anybody would like
to make on the question or subject of hazardous duty pay?
25X1A9a
MR. - I have a spot report on the Strauss report . . . I mean
the status of it. I talked with the Military Staff Director of the Strauss
;Commission, and I have also talked with Admiral Strauss, and I have here
Awk,
a what you might call a vlt of the recommendations from the Strauss re-
port to the Army-Navy-Air Force Journal, and the Military Staff Director
has confirmed to me that this is an accurate precis or summary, but because
this did leak in the way in which it did, Admiral Strauss has said that
nobody is going to see the report until it is signed. The report will be
signed on the 20th of March; however, this summary shows that the report
is not, for all practical purposes, going to change anything from the
present hazardous duty pay situation. It is not going to recommend any
substantial change.
When the report is filed it will have to be reviewed and approved by
the Secretary of Defense who may or may not send it to the Congress, and
it is only when Congress changes the legislation that CIA would be affected
by anything in the Strauss report.
MR. WOLF: Well, the full report will be availabl~ . . . you say
issued on the 20th of March?
- 25X1A9a
rte. That is correct, Sir.
MR. WOLF: Well, the request for this Board is that no consideration
be given until the full report is available for study, and I have no
idea what the pleasure of the Board is on that. Does anybody care to
take action today, or would we think it better to defer to the request
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from the DD/P and wait until the Strauss report is published and then
bring the matter back for finalization? It would seem to me that would
be the appropriate procedure.
25X1A9a
I have read what I could find on this question,
but it is not clear to me the.necessity for hazardous duty pay. I have
lived through 30 odd years of the Air Force on this problem, and it has
never been properly resolved, and I don't think it will ever be. Bill,
you remember that board you had in G-1 one time years ago that came up
with the idea of something different in flight pay. I think Air Force
should have accepted it at that time. If the necessity for hazardous duty
pay is the incentive to get people in, then I am very much opposed to
hazardous duty pay. If it is to give people increased remuneration to
buy insurance for their dependents I would think that an approach from
an insurance angle would be very much safer than hazardous duty pay. In
this organization it seems to me the motivation for taking hazardous
risk can't be bought.
MR. WOLF: Right.
25X1A9 And I think if we postpone it and listen to the
Strauss report we are evading the issue of whether there is a necessity
for hazardous duty pay, or should there be a study made of something to
protect people who know when you take a risk which would provide something
for their families?
MR. WOLF: Well, I am not thoroughly familiar with all this Strauss
report or all the controversy on hazardous duty pay, but if I as an
individual had to make up my mind right now I would be entirely opposed
to any form of hazardous duty pay for members of this business -- this
Agency. I agree that it may well be that we ought to have a very special
and careful study made of some method of insuring the dependents of those
who are taking an undue risk, but I go back to my friends in the Marine
Corps, and I have talked with several of them on this subject to get the
point of view, and they take a very strong stand against any such thing
from the point of view of the Marine Corps. I don't advocate the Marine
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Corps as being the last word, but I certainly have some respect for some
people who have been guiding them.
2 Y thgm
ink any hazardous duty pay in this Agency
would be extremely difficult to administer on an equitable basis. I know
the abuses that inevitably creep in in the Air Force.
25X1 Aa-
25X1A9a
your views reflect those of FI exactly.
The reason for the exception was that the question had been raised, and
there was a possibility that the Strauss report might bring in to focus
certain considerations or suggestions which hadn't occurred to any of us,
but in the absence of any such thing, well, our position will be exactly
as yours was. We weren't trying to evade the issue. It was just a question
of here was something that a lot of work had been done on and was going
to be made available. There is maybe a to chance that it might influence
I our outlook.
25X1A9a
-: I think General Morris will agree with me that
this thing has been gone over and over in the military, and I don't think
there is a new factor or new consideration. There have been many boards
like the Strauss Board, and it is almost always a vehicle to prevent Con-
gress from taking away your flight pay. That is just about what it amounts
to. I am a newcomer, and I shouldn't be talking so much on this subject,
but I would offer for consideration dropping the whole idea of hazardous
duty pay, to engage an outside consultant or consultants to study the
whole problem of protection for those people who do have hazardous duty
or who undergo risks in which it would be some protection.
MR.- ou5X1 Amean9hrough an insurance protection?
25X1A9a
Yes.
15X1A9W?- Mr. Chairman, I reinforce the views you just expressed
25X1A9a
and those expressed by I don't believe there is any
need for hazardous duty pay in an organization of this kind, but I would
also suggest that we do study some means to reimburse individuals on such
duty when there is great risk.
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MR. WOLF: Is there any further comment? Matt, have you any?
COLONEL BAIRD: I am not sure I understood what the General meant
there. You said not hazardous duty pay but we reimburse individuals
while on such duty, didn't you?
35X1A9a
If they are on hazardous duty there should be some
'other means of awarding them or rewarding them other than this type of
pay suggested here which has never been satisfactory. It is almost im-
',possible to administer, and I think that, as 25X1A9a
d,
the incentive here for types of duty individuals would come on is of much
different nature than when you are enlisting in military service for a
short period of time or for any length of time.
25X1A9a 25X1A9a
MR. I would like to agree with and General
25X 1 A9 in part, but comment was that it would
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be well to arrange some sort of protection for dependents in the event
the hazards of the 2d55uty11 gqdid result in fatality, and if
MR. Or alsability.
MR. _ If the mission is carried on without any harm or ill being,
25X1A9a
well, then there be no reimbursement.
25X1A9a
My ideas were there should be something like
a Line of Duty Board where would determine whether or not the total
disability or the death was due to risks which normally wouldn't be
required to take.
MR. - I just9wonder if a person is flying over to MMIJK(l onA
official business in a normal flight, and the plane crashes, and he is
killed if his dependents are any less deserving than if he did it in
25X14 a
some place. I would like to put in for consideration
a system which would be voluntary on the part of all employees. The FBI
has, I think, and it is only term insurance during actual employment
and covers all types of death, particularly for junior officers who per-
haps don't have their life: insurance programs established yet. I think
for the sum of about $10 a year they have $10,000 life insurance.
25X1A9a
Well, that was my point that I wanted to make.
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of this kind. The
people wh9 ark ,4u 1i `i d - 'g : at~i e~X #,qo busy, and
1 uuu'Ti bnixm iL is posslDle ror us wi .
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on this insurance angle we can find people -- actuaries -- who can be
cleared to know the kind of work we do and come up with recommendations
to us.
25X1A9a
MR. _ They administer theirs themselves?
25X1A9a
I mean to recommend a program which we would
administer, yes.
25X1A9a
In other words, we need an actuary to recommend a
program. 25X1A9a
MR. - The only thing we could have is a mutual insurance
:program in its ultimate sense; in other words, if 10 of our officers were
killed in one plane crash we would probably all be assessed.
MR. WOLF: With great deference I would like to raise this point if
I may. We have before us this Hazardous Duty Pay Program. We have a
request that no action be taken affirmatively until the Strauss report
is made available. I think it is the sense of this meeting that we need
not unnecessarily delay action on this report in that everybody seems
to indicate that he would not vote affirmatively even if he had the
Strauss report unless there was something compelling. Now there is noth-
ing irrevocable about such a decision if this Board makes it at this
time. If after the publication of the Strauss report any one of us finds
anything in it which indicates there is something which should be brought
,back to this Board, I would think we could bring it back. I want to bring
out the point that I doubt whether or not i LS`pon
about an overall insurance plan is contingent upon the approval or dis-
approval of hazardous duty pay.
25X1A9a
But when you tear down you usually put up
something, and that was my idea.
MR. WOLF: I would wonder if we might not in an orderly manner
determine today that this Board is not prepared to recommend to the
Director any program along the lines presented to us on hazardous duty
pay, and then if we might not suggest that this Board through the proper
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1 officials of the Agency' hii ertake a careful study "d4 with the proper
actuaries and counsel to determine whether or not legislation is neces-
sary, see whether or not we can present to this Board a workable and
appropriate program for coverage for dependents of members of the Agency
engaged in Agency business.
MR. _ 5wXXill9concur as long as it is clearly understood, as you
pointed out, that it is closed without prejudice because I didn't attend
the DD/P Career Service Board meeting in which the decision of 3 March
1953 was set forth.
MR. WOLF: Right; well, it is perfectly automatic, I think, that
nothing can be closed with prejudice here. Any member of this Board
could reinstitute this subject at the next meeting or any other . . .
COLONEL BAIRD: But I certainly agree with you, Mr. Chairman, that
we shouldn't delay if there is something that this Board can recommend
at this time. Q leaf meeting
of the Board, I think, was almost two months ago, and did defer action
on this in deference to the DD/P which was the large beneficiary of such
a plan with a request that the DD/P examine it and come up with recom-
mendations. I think the DD/P's offices have had sufficient time to
determine whether they wish or do not wish a hazardous duty program such
as that recommended, and I don't think we should defer action on it any
longer.
MR. WOLF: Well, then may I assume that based on the comments made
that this Board is not prepared to recommend the regulation for hazardous
duty pay which has been presented at this time? Is there any commneat or
any objection to that?
MR. _ No.25X1A9a
25X1A9a
No.
GENERAL MORRIS: No.
25X1A9a
No.
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MR. WOLF: May I then suggest that this Board through the proper
channels institute a study as quickly as possible to determine whether
or not we are in a position to or whether we will require legislation
to present for finalization an insurance program for the benefit of
the employees of this Agency in their various categories? I don't think
we know enough today to try to finalize that, and I think we would have
to make a very thorough study.
25X1A9a
MR. - We need to perhaps employ a consultant or so in order
to advise us.
3 MR. WOLF: Very possibly. Would it be the sense of this Board
that that is something we should undertake?
COLONEL BAIRD: We have such cleared consultants, haven't we,
Walter?
5X1 A,9a
ere. it was through I talked to _ about , and I
MR. WOLF: Yes, but they fussed with it a little bit but didn't get
want to take up the whole subject again. What I want to make very clear
is I think we want to take it up as something separate and distinct
from hazardous duty pay. We want to clean up the hazardous duty thing,
and then we want to start this other thing -- a proper insurance program
for the Agency.
COLONEL BAIRD: Your phraseology of the appropriate channels would
be the DD/A Office, would it not?
MR. WOLF: I would assume the burden would fall on this office
rti and through the Personnel Office. If this Board makes the recomendation
{ and the Director approves it I think it will certainly fall on the neck
of this office.
COLONEL BAIRD: I hope, but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't fall
between left and center field.
MR, WOLF: If there is no objection, may we consider that matter
covered? We come to Item No. 4. "CIA Career Service Program", CIA Regula-
tion to take the place of CIA Notice (attached); for approval. I
25X1A
'want to make sure I have the right one here.
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.
X' A9a MR-
i
I office we had this concurred in so that when it was presented to the
Director for signature he would have or know that it has the written
1concurrence of DD/P, the DD/I, the DD/A, the Director of Training, and
(off the Record)
MR. WOLF: I think maybe it would be wise if at least through the
three major offices, and through your office, and
the Director of Communications. Would that be satisfactory?
25X1A9a
MR. - Mr. Wolf, I have not done that because Mr.
,tells me that is the normal function of his office.
carried out. 25X1A9a
Yes, it needs to be done because the action we
have just taken on the hazardous duty would have to be eliminated from
this recommendation to the Director until that normal function has been
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
MR. WOLF: That is right, but I mean that will be done through his
office. I don't think I want to ask this Board to go on record making
this
There are always technical changes which have to be
made at the last minute.
MR. WOLF: In other words, is it the suggestion that this Board
approve this in principle and present it to the Director after full and
complete cooperation?
25X1 A9a MR. M The DD/P has already so requested.
COLONEL BAIRD: Mr. Chairman, I would like to raise a question on it.
MR. WOLF: Right.
COLONEL BAIRD: I would like to suggest that we do not ask the
Director to approve this regulation at this time. I would prefer to see
the full year of trial run. It hasn't too many months to go before we
;regularize something that I em not sure is working too happily. I have
this comment to make. I question whether the DD/P, the DD/I, and the DD/A
can give the necessary time required by the CIA Career Service Board.
I don't see why this should be on the record, but I guess maybe it should.
have been through a training course the last couple of weeks, and I
attended two of the Office of Co:mw'nications Career Service Board meetings.
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They lasted from 2:00 to 4:45 one day and from 2:00 to 4130 the second
day. They did not complete their agenda on either day. That Board con-
sisted of three top I would think at least 08-13 and maybe 15's. I am ncd
sure, 25X1A9a
The Chairman is a 15.
25X1A9a
COLONEL BAIRDt They worked hard on their office Career Service
Board business. To me it was an eye opener -- the care and the diligence
which they gave to their individual office problems. I don't think that
we can as a CIA Career Service Board give the office boards the guidance
and leadership which they have a right to expect by meeting once a month
with the deputies in attendance because I honestly don't think they have
the time to devote to it, and after we have run the gamut with the rotation
of the Chairman on a year's trial, it may be that we might wish to recom-
mend to the Director an entirely different composition or even a different
now of Personnel Policy Board. I just feel that before regularizing
this and sending it out to the field as a fait accompli that we are not
yet ready to be sure that this is the way it ought to work, and I suggest
delay.
MR. MOM Would anybody like to comment on Colonel Baird's sug-
gestion?
COLONEL BAIRD: Well --
25X1A9a
MR. _ I agree with Matt as to the problem of the time involved,
but unless there is some mechanism in being that brings in to bear the
Deputy Director level, well, the recommendations and the suggestions for
policy that must be acted upon by the DCI, we would have hopeless con-
fusion. In other words, I think the reason for the Deputy Director being
in the chain of developments, even though he contributes little time and
he is not going to come up with the ideas. They come from down at the
working level. At least that is the way the FI Board worked. They make
the suggestions. We screen them at the DD/P level, and then they come
up to the Director's Board here, and regardless of how we may change
it around, Matt, I think we are going to have . . . each one
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giving progressively less time to it as it always happens.
COLONEL BAIRD: I had in mind an Executive Committee such as you
once thought of, Walter, that would sit more often and give more time
and more thought to these problems. We get behind.
MR. WOLF: That is right.
COLONEL BAIRD: . . . on our work. I don't think we have studied
out the position of some of these subcommittees which are appendages
of the Career Service Board as to where they belong and what authority
they have. I am not convinced in my own mind that the Executive Secre-
tary and his staff should belong to the Career Service Board or belong
to the'Office of Personnel. I just say I would like a little more time,
I
but it is just my personal opinion.
25X1A9a
I have two comments. One is if we put out
something that is widely disseminated and it leads to hopes for the
people in the field and we are not able to back it up completely, we may
have done some damage. I had my Career Service Board really functioning
well before the people in the field found out about it, and then when
they did find out about it, we were able to demonstrate the functioning
of it, and there was no morale problem. If there is no hurry to get
this out, it might be better to let it run for a while or put out a very
brief regulation announcing that the establishment of the career service
board has been established with its objectives without anything much more.
25X1A9a
MR. - That has been done three times in the DCI's Newsletter.
In other words, the news has gone to the field that there is a CIA Career
Service program, and the very most general aspects of the program have
,,been announced to the field. You remember, Walter, you took some copies
of the Staff Study to Europe, and I think Mr. Dulles has discussed it
in the Far East, and there seems to be a crying need to tell the people
that there is a Career Service program, and if I may say this off the
N -,record.
(Off the Record)
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25X1A9a
0
MR.
If it has widespread . . .
What form it takes, Matt, you have some very real and
25X1A9a
good points, and what form the notice to the field should take is something
that may y require a little study, but I think we ought to get something out
COLONEL BAIRD: Walter, if I may just amplify it once more.
25X1A9a
reiterate what has said. He knew the answers to
many of the problems that his field people were going to ask him before
he let the word out. Now we have been in existence for eight or nine
months -- since July, I guess. We didn't really meet until the fall, but
there are a lot of things that we don't know the answers to yet, which it
seems to me that before we say we are set up in business we ought to know.
We ought to have the answer to the Executive Inventory -- what it means.
We ought to know the answer to the rotation problem. We ought to know the
answer to a number of questions that drift into me, and I say, "Well,
we haven't taken that up yet."
MR. WOLF: That is right.
COLONEL BAIRD: I had hoped that by the end of a year the Career
Service Board would be in a position to give firm guidance on Agency
policy just such as you say this promotion policy. There is no Agency pro-
motion policy. Each office has its own. People want to know what the
Agency policy is.
MR. WOLF: General Morris, do you want to comment on this?
GENERAL MORRIS: Well, my idea is that it could be either way. I
don't mind a regulation going out because you can always change a regula-
tion. We change them all the time -- put out brand new ones to take the
place of the old ones. It does formalize this thing a whole lot to go
right out with the changes right away if you want to.
9a
MR. WOLF: have you -- ?
25X1A9 I think something should go to the field. In what
form it should go, I am not prepared to recommend whether it is this. I
am not too familiar with it, but I do think something should go out to
ti(j`9eg1 a3
avorin to look after
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their interests. It is a morale problem.
COLONEL BAIRD: I thought something had gone to the field.
25X1A9a
MR. _ Very informal in the DDI's Newsletter.
25X1A9a
MR. -: And I will circulate within the next couple of days,
if you like, to the members of the Board the text of what has gone in
the DDI's Newsletter.
25X1A9a
MR. - Why don't you circulate a proposed notice?
25X1A9a
MR. _: I have right here. This is the best I can do.
5X1A9.M This is headquarters, isn't it?
25X1A9a
MR. The Headquarters notice=
25X1A
I have worked with Mr. I have come
25X1A9a
up with at least a dozen texts, and everyone I have come up with has been
turned down for one reason or another, including some of the . . . I prepared
for the D(DE's Newsletter. I have exhausted my personal abilities to prepare
texts. I will prepare whatever somebody tells me to prepare, and I can do
it, but I have to know what they want. At this point I don't know. I have
tried about a dozen different things, and so far none of them have been
acceptable for one reason or another.
COLONEL BAIRD: But do you think this will be acceptable as your
13th try?
25X1A9a
MR. - As far as I am concerned this is it; this is the best
yet, and if I were making the decision, I would send this immediately to
25X1A
the field -- tomorrow -- because I think this tells
them what they already know. We have people going back and forth all the
time, and they know that there are these 20 boards, so we might as well
tell them in the field.
MR. WOLF: May I interject now? It seems to me we have presented to
I
rus a proposed CIA Regulation. Said regulation in effect states in regulatory
language, that language which is expressed in a directive signed by General
Smith -- signed by General Smith last June. That is in being at the present
Now the first problem that seems to be before this Board is whether
or t i sue t on to take the lace of shall we
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call it a directive signed by General Smith.
25X1A
I think we are
getting two things all jumbled up here. It has been the policy of the
:organization in the last six months to attempt to rewrite all Agency regula-
tions to wit to give an expression of overall Agency policy in the form
of a regulation and at the same time to attempt as best we could through
n r V A A
;procedural notices
we are not competent to implement. Do I make myself clear?
COLONEL BAIRD: Yes, sir. Actually I think what the DD/P and the
Office of Communications are concerned about is that a notice hasn't been
sent to the field. I don't understand why it is more difficult to sanitize
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necessary so that we can implement this or remove from it that part which
consider the issuance of said regulation the authorization, if the Director
so decides, and
then go right to work to develop any changes that we may determine are
affects the individuals in the Agency, and I am wondering if we shouldn't
proper implementation of the policy as expressed by this regulation as it
to issue procedures or procedure
"which was so flexible they could be made effective in various parts of this
organization, but all within the framework of the policy. Now if this is
the policy of the Agency at this time, I can see no reason why it shouldn't
be so expressed. The point that Matt brings up is that this is the
policy, but in his judgment this policy will probably be changed in the
relatively near future. I personally don't want to go ahead and issue a
regulation and then have another one written within a couple of months and
change the whole thing. However, I hate to have a directive on the books
and not have it expressed effectively in the reeul.atory form and preclude
the Career Board, and the various offices, and the DD/P area particularly
?from sending a sanitized version of the directive and/or regulation to
the people in the field if it is in force. We can always change a regula-
tion. If it is just a small change there is no problem. If the entire
policy of the regulation is to be changed, that is another thing, and I
,;don't believe you mean that. I think what you are troubled about is the
ThN ? JP MATiON
 Approved For Relse 2001/03/04: CIA-RD 8Z6R000500050002-4
Perhaps it is.
I should think rather than sanitize, sanitize
but also brief. The field should not be concerned with the fact that four
members present are a quorum, and meet once a month, and that sort of
thing -- a statement of the objective in the first few paragraphs of this
regulation and the composition of the Board would be enough for the field.
a notice than it is to sanitize a regulation.
25X1A9a
MR. - I can explain that.
25X1A9a
the Staff Study overseas, and if somebody will come up with the essence,
the regulatory material which I have done here, they will undertake to
and I think correctly, that it is inappropriate to send
:Regulation. It isn't even a Notice.
MR. WOLF: It is a Staff Study that has been approved by the Director.
2 And P the
MR. An
An a Notice actually translates a Staff Study. It
has been the DD/P's, and this is not Mr. Wisner's point, but it is really
k` 25X1 Aga
MR. WOLF: That is right.
25X1A9JMM 25X1A
MR. The goes into quite a lot of background; it
goes into philosophy. is a Staff Study, not a Directive, not a
25X1A
25X1A9a
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to be a major change in the principle involved of a career service for
this Agency, that would be another thing. I don't think we contemplate
that.
COLONEL BAIRD: I don't.
MR. WOLF: It would, therefore, be my suggestion, and maybe I am not
the one to make it, but anyway I will, that subject to complete concurrence
25X1A9a
by the DD/P, DD/I, DD/A Office and Colonel Baird's
office that this Board recommend that this regulation be made official
is anyway, to sanitize it and utilize it in notice form to those of his
people whom he cares to have it. Although I still think that Matt has
a terribly good point. The only thing I think we need consider is whether
or not we ought to do it now or whether we will be able to revise this
in such a way within the next couple of months that we will be able to do
and that the DD/P, or DD/I, or anyone else be thoroughly authorized, as he
it better in a couple of months -- two or three months -- or is the delay
or two or three months important? Personally I would prefer to get it
done and then correct, but I have no strong conviction.
25X1A9a
MR. _ Well, my feeling is that we should get it done because I
don't believe we will ever reach any point in our development that we can
be sure we are not going to change the mechanical structure of this imple-
menting the basic policy. I agree with you, Matt, that the present one
may be cumbersome, and it may be changed, but will we know any more in
two or three months -- more than we do now? At our present rate of
development we might know something in another year.
25X1A
COLONEL BAIRD: I have no desire to impede the + knowing about
what we are trying to do, but I would hate to have the field think we
!what the answers are, we don't know.
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25X1A9a
MR. = I think that will certainly be taken care of in the
DD/P Notice, and I doubt very much, if I can only speak for FI, if we will
go into the mechanical aspects of this thing and who constitutes what, etc.,
because I don't think they could care less.
MR. WOLF: I don't either.
MR. WOLF: Would anybody else like to comment, or shall we finalize
this particular problem so we can get on to our next business, and what
is the pleasure of the Board?
GENERAL MORRIS: I move we issue the regulation, and after it has
been approved by the DD/I, and DD/P, and Matt's . . .
MR. WOLF: The regular normal way.
GENERAL MORRIS: Yes, and they can then put out their notices based
on that.
25X1A9a
I agree with that.
MR. WOLF: That is seconded. Is there any further discussion? Matt,
would you like to?
COLONEL BAIRD: No.
MR. WOLF: It is so ordered. The next item I have on this agenda
has to do with the Report of the Professional Selection Panel activities.
I understand that has been held in abeyance and cancelled. However, I
have a notice that just came to me, dated 9 March, with which I concur
completely, and I would like to read to this Board because it has some-
thing to do with the Professional Selection Panel, and it is a memorandum
to this Board from the Panel, Subject: Procedure for Reporting the
Recommendations of the Panel on Specific Cases, Reference: Procedure
for Handling Cases Submitted to the Professional Selection Panel, dated
r
9 January 1953?
1. At the request of the Deputy Director (Plans) and the Chief
of Operations, the Panel recommends that the present procedure
established by reference for transmitting its recaamgendations on
specific cases be modified so that an information copy of its recom-
mendations be transmitted to the Head of the Office or Senior Staff
concerned through the appropriate Deputy Director. It is further
recommended that when the Panel's recommendation is adverse, the
Assistant Director (Personnel) consult with the Head of the Office
or Senior Staff concerned before taking further tion on the case.
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2. Since this modifies a directive to the Panel from the CIA
Career Service Board, the approval of the Board is requested.
FOR THE PROFESSIONAL SELECTION PANEL:
/s/ 25X1A9a
I would be 100% in accord with adopting that procedure, but as I
say, it arrived this afternoon, and I guess about five minutes before
this meeting, and I was aware of it having discussed it with some of my
associates, and I present this to the Board, which I assume is appropriate,
although they have asked to withhold the report. Is that correct?
25X1 Aaa asked me
That is right. Mr. me if I would transmit
to you, as I did, his request, and Mr. Wiener's that this procedure be
adopted.
25X1A9a
MR. WOLF: Well, this Mr. and I have talked about, and this
came in, as I say, five minutes before the meeting, and I have read it.
Would anybody like to consider it, discuss it, or would you like to
approve this?
~5X1A9a
MR. I move we approve it.
25X1A9a
I second the motion.
MR. WOLF: Is there any further discussion on this? All in favor
say Aye, all to the contrary, No. (All said Aye) It is so ordered.
The next item is Oral Examination of Applicants, Staff Study, dated
3 February 1953, (attached); for action. That is a long study, and by
way of introduction I would simply like to state, and 25X1 A9a
think, can confirm everything I say, that this Staff Study was made at
the direct request of General Smith in his office after a long discussion
one day, in fact, two days, on this whole subject of taking personnel into
this business. The study has been disseminated. Everybody has had an
opportunity to read it. There have been comments written about it, and I
will only ask the Board what action, if any, they care to take on this
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subject. I myself, if I have a vote on this Board, as I say, I am not
prepared to recommend the action proposed in the Staff Study at this
time.
GENERAL MORRIS: I would like to state one thing there. Also when
General Smith mentioned about making this study for him for applicants, he
suggested the way it might be done, and so this Staff Study is written
that way based on his more or less oral directive, which is not exactly
in accord with what we had reference to in that Panel.
MR. WOLF: That is right, but I think everybody has had an opportunity
to look at the Staff Study, and I don't know whether you are prepared to
comment on it. I have written comments from a number of people. Would
anybody like to make any comment, or would anybody like to make any
motion with regard to it?
25X1A9a
Mr. Chairman, do you have the memorandum there
from Mr. _ of 23 February expressing the point of view of the DD/P
Board?
25X1A9a
MR. WOLF: Just a minute; I think I have. This is dated the 23rd of
February 1953?
25X1A9a
NR.- Yes, sir.
MR. WOLF: Signed by 25X1A9a
1. Reference staff study was considered by the DD/P Career
Service Board.
2. This Board agreed that a system for the oral examination
of applicants should be instituted in the Agency. It felt, however,
that the recommendations made in reference staff study were not
adequate to handle this problem at least as far as the DD/P
elements are concerned. The Board was of the opinion that further
detailed consideration be given to this problem with a view to
placing the responsibility for oral examinations on the various
Career Service Boards of the senior staffs of DD/P. This proposal
would have the advantage of spreading the workload entailed in
such examinations and placing the responsibility on individuals
knowledgeable in the personnel requirements of the various
activities. It is recognized that details would have to be worked
out for a proper implementation of this idea, but it is felt that
such a procedure would come closer to setting the requirements of
the DD/P organization than having the work performed either by the
Professional Selection Panel or the Boards of Examiners proposed
in the reference staff study.
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25X1A9a
_-1. 3 -afl
Yes, sir, I would like to support that point of
view. The idea behind that is it is a terrific workload to conduct these
oral examinations. Therefore, I feel that it should be decentralized to
the people who are actually going to use these individuals and that the
Professional Selection Board, as I understand you have one, should only be
called upon to act in case of doubtful cases, or where it is referred to
them, or medical cases, or various things of that type which require an
Agency point of view.
MR. WOLF: That is the way it is at the present time.
25X1A9a
That is the way we would recommend in DD/P.
GENERAL MORRIS: I wanted to say about the method you have there.
You know right now you do that. The Board doesn't act on it. We don't
accept anybody unless you people accept them.
MR. WOLF: I think this would formalize it considerably. But I would
say I think I am right that the Professional Selection Panel does exactly
what you have said right now.
25X1 Pa MR.
25X1A
but would they be capable of passing on a man for overall suitability
That is correct.
MR. _ I think the weakness in Mr M position is that 25X1A9a
these Boards would pass on the professional qualifications of an individual..
as a career employee?
25X1A9a
MR'._ However, the Director's mandate and the responsibility
which he placed upon the senior staffs under the DD/P is for the develop-
ment of a professional specialized service, and I think that the only
people who are competent to pass upon people with a particular service
are persons from within the service, and I certainly wouldn't feel that
a was competent to pass upon qualifications of a man for OCI, or some
,other technical job, or even a communications expert because it is tech-
nical proficiency which might control. General suitability standards, I
"think, are pretty well known throughout the Agency.
25X A9a There seems to me a weak point, and I agree
with what you have just said. My Career Service Board and my people as
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General Morris sends down applicants we either interview them or look
their papers over, and we determine whether or not from technical aptitude
or past experience they are desirable, but we are unable to detect these
people who flunk out on us after they have gotten overseas, the lack of in-
tegrity, and things of that kind.
MR. WOLF: I don't think your Board necessarily has to do that because,
after all, that again is an administrative matter.
25X1A9a
That is my point, and I think what you said that
the Career Service Boards or the offices shouldn't have to determine that,
and I understand that the examiners in the Foreign Service are people
who are highly trained in oral examination, so I think there is something
in addition to the way it is being done now that need be done, but I don't
go for this oral examination for GS-17's or above trying to do it because
they simply haven't the time, nor have they the skill.
MR. WOLF: I would like to, if I may, just read the last paragraph
of Bob Amory's memorandum dated 24 February 1953. He ends his memorandum
stating:
2. The mechanism now extant in the Professional Selection
Panel, is adequate to assist the Offices in selection of Career
employees and should be encouraged to continue to increase its
competence toward this end. I recommend that this Panel be kept
separate from the "Command line," and be advisory to the Agency
Career Board rather than to any single element of the Agency.
When there is any question from an administrative, from a security,
for from a medical point of view, a marginal case, regardless of the
,qualifications of the individual, it is my understanding that the matter
is then referred to the Professional Selection Panel for its recommendation,
'and I rather think that this Board might be well advised if it so felt that
we would determine that we are not prepared to accept the conclusions and
:the recommendations in the Staff Study dated the 3rd of February, but that
I've devote all of our efforts to continuing to determine how best we can
vconsider the subject of bringing new employees in on a career basis and make
any recc?endations as time goes on that we may want to make.
COLONEL BAIRD: Mr. Chairmen, you have a suggestion from the Executive
Secretary which he makes as a possible course of action by the Board. The
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!^atil
request is that the Professional Selection Panel reconcile the various
comments and make specific recommendations to the Board at its next
meeting. That seems to me like a reasonable course of action.
made
~5XM9a
MR. I made that suggestion in all humility because this is
an extremely complex subject, and as I see it, the comments which Colonel
25X1A9a
Baird made for Training and which made for Commlunica-
25X
JM
Lions, etc., and Mr. Mr. etc., and Mr. Amory, I think there are excel-
lent ideas in all of those, but the four have to be put together into one
consolidated recommendation, and we can't do it . . . I mean, it is just
too horribly complex. You have to sit down and. study it and come up
with a single recommendation reconciling those advances in various aspects
of the problem.
25X1A9a
COLONEL BAIRD: Mr._ is a member of that Panel, and maybe he
would like to give us an idea as to whether he feels the Panel could do
that.
251A9a MR= Yes, I think we could.
MR. WOLF: Would it then be satisfactory to this Board to disapprove
any recommendation to the Director on the Staff Study and recommend that
in accordance with the Executive Secretary's recommendation, the Profes-
sional Selection Panel coordinate the various suggestions and come back
at the next meeting of the Board with recommendations on this subject?
Is that satisfactory? Is there any objection? If not, we will consider
flthat approved and pass on to the next subject. The next one is Responsibility
for Career Planning, Staff Study, dated 24+ February 1953, (attached); for
approval. This is a . . . the dates are mixed. That is what held me up.
This is a recommendation to the Chairman of the CIA Career Service Board,
Subject: Responsibility for Career Planning, for approval, and it is
recommended "that the principles contained in the references and decisions
cited in paragraphs 3b, c, and d above be approved as the basis for placing
career planning responsibility throughout the Agency." I don't know whether
everybody has read this and considered it. I don't think there is any
need of me reading it all. Is there any comment on this recommendation in
b
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this paper?
probably OCD and ORR where there are pretty good Career'Service Boards
in existence, ~ppr jcu'Iarly, would say, "I would like to feel that all.
of these people as long as they are attached to me are members of my office
..Career Service Board. Now does this whittle away at the integrity of the
the assessment and evaluation people, are Training people. They-are on my
T/O.. I have a-real feeling about their career, and I would think that
the Office of Training, now, particularly the support staff, and TRG, and
office boards broken up. I feel that the people who are in Training, in
COLONEL BAIRD: I would like somebody to brief me down. If my concept
of the function of Training in the Agency is valid, one of the premises is
that people should be rotated in and out of Training from both the sub-
stantive offices, Admin offices, and particularly the DD/P offices. That
would be very nice for me because I wouldn't have any Career Service Board.
I would just say, "These people all belong to somebody else." If they
didn't I wouldn't particularly want them because I want people that can go
back to ORR and learn a little about geography and come back and teach it,
and certainly there should be constant rotation with the DD/P offices and the
covert Training. What I am getting at is the office boards are really the
guts of this thing at the moment, and I would hate to see the integrity of the
25X1A9a
MR. On the contrary; it enhances it, matt.
COLONEL BAIRD: Well, it does for you. I am asking for the DD/I. It
.'doesn't for me at all. It puts me out of business.
A9a
MR. Almost. I would like to have the DD/I talk about it, whether
.,he feels that this DD/P which has you have approved it, but the DD/I
and the DD/A, it is a little different situation.'
25X1A9a
MR. _ I just wanted to point out one thing that is germane to
.our conversation is that there.will be primary and secondary classifications.
In other Words, a person whose primary classification is FI, and almost neces-
'sarily all our chiefs of major stations have a primary and two secondary.
All senior staffs approve their appointment.
23
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25X1A9a
A well-rounded officer of DD/P would have the secondary.
They cannot get the secondary under our ground rules until they have com-
pleted the required training and have the approval of the chief of the
next staff.
COLONEL BAIRD: I am sure this is what you want for the DD/P.
~5X1A9a
to. Yes.
COLONEL BAIRD: I query whether it is as necessary in the overt
offices under the DD/I. There are quite a few administrative people of
allcategories. Now whether they feel that they are part of ORR, or
whether they are actually supply people, or budget and fiscal people, or
security people, or managerial. . . I don't know what I am, whether I am
Iran administrative officer, but I know what I would like to be, and that
its I would like to be Chairman of the Office of Training Career Service
I
,Board. I feel that this is my function.
25X1A9a
MR. _ What good is this designed to accomplish?
MR.= ?5t2iink9theie is a very real need for it in the covert
services. I will disqualify myself from commenting on the other components
because I am obviously not . . .
25X1A9a
This recommendation fits the Office of Communica-
tions very well for this reason, and that is that I have some Personnel
people, and I have some administrative people. They are denied any
broadening of their career unless they can look forward to being trans-
ferred to another office sometime, and I would like to view this as you
do in the military. You get a Quartermaster assigned to a command or
to a station, and he will be in the Air Force for a while, and he may go
to the Army the next time. The same thing with the doctors. Those who
are. primarily Communications people I have a career within the office for
them. I don't have for a Finance man. I am perfectly content to have the
""Finance officer detailed to me, the Finance officer for my station in the
Middle East. I would like to have a new Chief of the Administrative
;Division at some time not because of the individual but because he
gets in
a rut pretty soon, so it fits my office very very well. I can see how
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it doesn't . .
GENERAL MORRIS; I already have signed it a career in Personnel. It
also includes clerical personnel and just like our Adjutant General's
Department in the Army. It has already gone in. I don't know whether
! Mr. Wolf has seen it yet or not.
MR. - 2A single office would have people from these various
designations working for it.
2 1 A9a
MR. That is right. In other words, although I can't say
exactly how it ties in with the rotation system, it helps to . . . I be-
lieve that it enhances the orderliness of rotation to some extent. It
helps that because a Personnel man, for example, rotates to General
25X1A9a
and he rotates to you, and then he rotates to you, Paul, and
and in the course of that rotation his Personnel Career Service Board is
looking after it and planning his rotation, and he comes out a three times
better man than if he didn't have that, and this is a kind of a mechanical
gimmick to help to do that as I see it. As far as the DD/A areas are
concerned -- the Finance, the Supply, the Personnel, even General Counsel,
General Services people . . .
MR. WOLF: Security.
25X1A9a
MR. - You can carry that to a certain extent it seems to me
in the DD/I area. It is very difficult to put the NE or CI tag on someone
because you have exactly the same kind of a man doing a job maybe in
OCI that would be doing it in ONE, and I think there would be some un-
fortunate consequences in branding a man with one designation where it is
an artificial one. You might need a broader designation for the DD/I
area that would cover.
25X1A9a
Could it be applied partially, for example, to
the DD/P's area?
25X1A9a
MR. - It can be applied to any combination,. I believe.
25X1 A9 R.
It is in existence now for DD/P. We have it.
25X1A9a
And it impinges on the DD/A area although we are not
)able quite to handle it.
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MR. WOLF: That is all being worked out by understanding and agree-
ment. In fact, I am entirely in accord with that. The more cross fertiliza-
tion we can get the better I am going to like it in every way.
COLONEL BAIRD: Have you got an expression from the DD/I on this?
25X1A9a
MR.- No, sir.
I we
MR. WOLF: I think he certainly should express himself on this before..
take anything final. Would you suggest that we . . . 7
COLONEL BAIRD: I don't have any strong feeling on this, Walter.
MR. WOLF: I think it is the DD/I's privilege to comment though, and
I certainly think he should.
COLONEL BAIRD: I am not speaking as a Director of paining on this,
but I do have great respect for some of these office boards as I have seen
them work.
MR. W017: So do I. They have done a great job. Well, what is your
pleasure? Shall we adopt this, or shall we hold this in abeyance? As a
matter of fact, Eric, there is no need of adopting it because it is
already being done.
25X1A9a
MR. It is a question of extending it, so we have no comment.
25X1A9a
It could be handled between General Morris and
my own office by exchange of memorandums to effectuate the recommendations
in paragraph C. That would start the functioning. I would immediately
give him the names of those individuals I considered primarily Personnel
who did not need to have a knowledge of communications to function. I have
some Personnel people who do need to know communications, and communica-
tions are primarily MOS, and Personnel would be their secondary LOS, and
those I would want to continue to watch their career.
GENERAL MORRIS: On this Personnel thing, if it goes through, what
we suggested, it will raise the morale of all personnel people. We recom-
25X1A6a
mend a man go to the Far East; we recommend a man go to _ and we
can submit to the person two or three names, and people stand right up
MR. _ 2Tlicy Swint to know what board is going to pass on their
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25X1A9a
MR. i That is where the designation helps. They know which
A
board to look to.
25X1A9a
MR. _ They will know they are not lost in the limbo of an overseas
post where they get to be third-class citizens.
25X1A9a
MR. - The Office of Procurement and Supply has prepared a
Staff Study which focuses on this problem. Until the Board might have
en opportunity to look at this . . . but it points up the fact that in
the. DD/A area, whether it is Personnel, or Hie=e,, or Procurement and
Supply, it is almost essential to do something of this sort if it is going
to be done in the DD/P because the DD/P is certifying Supply and Personnel
people, and General Morris can't handle -- I am putting words into your
mouth, Sir -- some Personnel people one way and others differently, you
see, and that is the essence of the Staff Study by Procurement and Supply,
that they wish to have this apply to their office. This overall Staff
Study was prepared as a result of the desires of Procurement and Supply
because it couldn't be done just for Procurement and Supply and not for
other parts of the DD/A area.
COLONEL BAIRD: I don't see why we shouldn't go ahead with C. I think
that is very good.
25X1A9a
MR. - We would have to approve B. in order to do that.
yhope you will push him some place where he can go, and do you have a
Junior who can come in and take his place for two or three years?"
COLONEL BAIRD: I disagree with General Morris when he says that
all Personnel people would rather be under the Personnel Service Board
rather than under the Board they are now in. Mine wouldn't; mine would
rather be with me.
GENERAL MORRIS: The thing about it, he has a ceiling if he is in
your place.
COLONEL BAIRD: Sure he has a ceiling, and when he has reached that
ceiling, and when he has reached that ceiling, I will make him available
and say, "Here is a very good man, and I can highly recommend him, and I
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25X1 A9a
MR. _ We feel, Matt, on the contrary, that our Personnel should
be considered for promotions by the Personnel people even before we are
ready to make them available. We think that they should get equal con-
sideration whether they are assigned to FI or whether they are assigned
COLONEL BAIRD: But you are the guy who has been supervising them. You
know more about them than anybody else while they are with you, and I would
think while
they are with
you that you want to control them, and if you are
good supervisor. they will want you to supervise them.
25X1A9a
MR. - We control them for purposes of discipline, and administra-
tion, and we prepare their efficiency reports for the concurrence of the
Personnel Office, but they are primarily personnel officers.
25X1A9a
It seems to me that I could take a Personnel
man and recommend his promotion, and he would be promoted ahead of other
Personnel people, and really the consideration for promotion should come
from somebody who is watching all personnel people to see that they keep
it in balance. My Career Service Board doesn't like to handle the
Administrative and Personnel people. It is hard to fit them in with the
technical people.
MR. WOLF: I think that is right. I agree with that. That is the
problem we face throughout.
25X1A9a
This fits my office entirely satisfactorily.
MR. Would it be possible to take action on this by saying
25X1A9a
if the Board wishes to, that this will apply to the Office of Communica-
tions, the DD/A, and the DD/P, and that it will be held in abeyance with
respect to the Office of Training and the DD/I? From the point of view
of mechanics that would be quite possible.
MR. WOLF: Bob, we have a big chair for you, and we ar just about
to recommend. We are on Item No. 7 -- Responsibility for Career Planning,
'Staff Study, dated 24 February 1953. It has just this minute been proposed
that this Board recommend the adoption of this insofar as it relates to
the DD/P, the Office of Communications, and the DD/A, and hold in abeyance
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until such time as the office of the DD/I gives its conclusion insofar
as its organization is concerned, and the Office of Training.
COLONEL BAIRD: Well, I do it already with the DD/P offices. I would
like to hear how the DD/I offices feel about it.
MR. AMORY: About the regulation as a whole?
MR. WOLF: The Staff Study and the recosanendation.
MR. AMORY: We have one great worry and that is the question of
stabbing all administrative officers and putting them under the DD/A
'Board. We don't mean to exclude the DD/A Board, but we certainly feel
:'that the appropriate office board or DD/I body should also have a hand
in determining their career, largely because there is a constant shift
'back and forth from administrative work to intelligence work there, the
25X1A9a
specific example being - who we took out of Administrative Assistant
25X1A6a
to the AD/ORR and sea him to- He will now come back and be a
division chief in a substantive branch.
MR. WOLF: I think that is entirely comparable to what you have been
saying, General, about certain administrative people in the Office of
Communications whose primary work is based on communications but are doing
certain administrative work. They are not the ones that you are including.
You want to control those in your own office board, but a personnel
officer, or a finance officer, or security officer, or procurement or
logistics fellow I gathered from what you said that he is the one you
want to have controlled and run for promotion policy, etc., by a DD/A
Board, but I think what you are saying, Bob, is so many of your people
may be classified in your mind as administrative, but they are really
developing into the intelligence field just as many of yours are doing
administrative work but are really going into the communications field,
-land they without any question I gathered from your point of view should
The handled by your own board.
25X1A9a
That is right.
MR. WOLF: But the question is whether the others be allocated to
Iother boards. Isn't that it?
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25X1A9a
O
Mr. Chairman, wouldn't the case Mr. Amory just
brought up, if he has an individual that develops into an intelligence
officer, then he moves under the jurisdiction of his Board, but if he
is purely administrative officer, he is under the administration.
ult9a
2~
MR. o d the concurrence of two interested components . . .
any designation can be changed or secondary designation can be added.
We have the same problem, Bob, so we proposed an early proposal that it
be determined by grade, and that we wouldn't accept at all because some
of our grade 3's are potential intelligence officers.
MR. AWRY: There is more apt to be flexibility at that level than . . .
25X1A9a
MR. - There is one other gimmick you might call it in the
Staff Study which I would like to point out. That is for this initial
designation . . . in other words, we have a case where we are facing
certain facts of life that various people are on the T/O of a particular
office. The head of that office has let's say the major part of the
initiative in determining what his designation should be; therefore, in
25X1A9a
your case with you could just say, "Well, there is going to
25~C1 Agaa
be no argument about a wM have an ORR designation." And
it is up to an X number of people to challenge your decision, Mr. Amory,
and nobody would challenge it in that case. That is the problem of
making these initial career designations since we have who 25X9A2
don't have it at the moment. It is catching up with ourselves as it
were, in other words, putting a system into effect which can run smoothly,
but there will be certain problems and administrative headaches in getting
it underway.
25X1A9a
It seems to me that the initial designation
should not be forever binding.
25X1A9a
No, it should not.
COLONEL BAIRD: Where do the clericals come into this thing?
MR. They come with their principals.
25X1A9a (Off the Record)
30
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. s 1'L ; 77 6 ; ?'_ "R. (7 AT ION
MR. WOLF: I think the problem we face, Bob, I don't get your whole
story, but we have some individuals whose long term future is definitely
going to be in the field of finance or in the field of procurement and
supply, or in the field of personnel work, or in the field of something
else. Nov they may get rotated around and get exposure to different
things in order to build that. It has been recommended, and it is being
done with the DD/P area; in other words, this is relatively academic
tinsofar as DD/A and DD/P because all of this is being done by understanding
and agreement., The DD/A Board is perfectly willing to handle as much
of this as it can. Appropriately it doesn't . . . Clod knows it is not
going out looking to get people, but if in the judgment of the head of
the office a Finance Officer will never be 100% an Intelligence Officer,
is it better that he be handled through the DD/A Career Board so that
the then can be related to all others and in promotion standards, etc.,
I he can be considered rather than have him handled going on a promotion
tbasis by an intelligence Board whose primary interest is in that and
not knowledgeable of all the other phases of personnel, or security,
or procurement, supply, or finance? That is the real problem as I see
it. I think that maybe you get better personnel management, but again
it is a question of determining which one we . . . We want Agency policy
rather than one office doing it one way and another office saying, "Well,
that is a hell of a way to do it; we are doing it this way." Agency
policy which must have procedure within its framework which is highly
flexible so that it can be made applicable to different segments of this
career business.
COLOIEL BAIRD: How would it be to let the individual be given the
Xchoice on this basis rather than say, "Well, you are a supply man. Do
you want to put down that you want to go to supply career training, Pro-
{
curement and Supply Office Career Service Board, or do you want to stay
,with Training?" I think maybe one thing that could come of that would
Abe that you would raise the level of some of the office career service
jboards which aren't even functioning yet, and when an individual sees
that there is an office career service board that is functioning, he may
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be less loathe to give good berth for something that he doesn't know,
that is, whether it is functioning or not. But I merely express some
of the thoughts to my own people that they would prefer to stay with
the Office of Training until they see what is happening in the other Career
Service Boards -- Office Boards.
t was
express his preference which is contained in the DD/P s system tha
approved by the Board. There are three alternatives. I can't quote
the details, but a man can elect or can request that he receive a certain
kind of designation based on his experience, etc., and that is contained
here. Secondly, I think, Matt, let's take office X. The head of office X
can say under this Staff Study if it is approved for the next year, "I wish
to designate all people with X designation until we can see how this
works," and it can be done that way. In other words, that is no violation
of the overall intent, and that gives you plenty of time to phase into
this system which seems to be from a long range point of view desirable,
but there is plenty of flexibility. One, for the individual to make an
election or express his preference and to be heard on it, and there is
also plenty of flexibility for the head of the office to say, "I don't want
to sign out or designate anybody for the time being, but I want to reserve
that until I have had en opportunity to see how it is going to work."
COLONEL BAIRD: I withdraw any objection. I raise this point because
I wanted to be argued down on it.
MR? WOLF: I think it is a very good point.
COLONEL BAIRD: I want to go back and tell my people something about
MR. WOLF: I think as it has just been expressed, there Is no firm
line here. I mean you can make the decision, and you have lots of time;
if the principle of this is correct for the Agency as a whole I would like
Ito see it adopted. I would like to see the procedure highly flexible
and give and take and work this out over a period of time with the heads
-32-
25X1A9a
There is a provision for the individual to elect or
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.F" a
of the various offices, which I don't think any of us know enough yet
to know what is the best thing for-the long pull. Based on the way we
are built and the way we are running, certainly with the whole DD,/P area 25X1 Aga
and the DD~A operation this fits our book. It fits
book very well I gather.
25X1A9a
Yes, sir.
MR. WOLF: And I leave it to this Board to determine what it would
prefer to do. I think it is a good recommendation provided it is handled
and operated with some degree of intelligence and a very large amount of
understanding, and good wi71.
COLONEL BAIRD: Yes.
MR. WOLF: I put less emphasis on the intelligence than I do the
good will and understanding. Bob, if you have any reservation now I
would certainly prefer nat to have it made applicable to the DD~I until
you have considered it further if you prefer to.
A'k3. AMORY: Really we are ,just setting the primary form, and the
secondary can come at anybody's operation who wants to, and will the
minutes sa show.
MR. WOLF: That is it exactly.
MR. AMORY; In other words, unless an individual takes some action
he will be classified as an administrator if he is an administrator, but
all he is to do is by his office head he can then be transferred to the
jurisdiction of his office board.
MR. WOLF: That is my understanding.
COLONEL BAIRD: You remembered to give the individual some chaise.
I don't see that the individual in the wording of this has much choice.
The ADP will correct errors and the office officially record the career
designations. I don't see that the employee himself ever has much of a
decision.
MR. WOLF: I don't think I said the employee had the decision. Didn't
you say the head of the office made the initial determination?
~33-
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ower
has full
ffi
h
s~ 'c~~`
$
p
ce
e o
t
e
~~ - That is correct. The
to decide who is going to be designated. Let me put it this ways If
Mr. Amory says, "My top personnel officer, my top man in Personnel, I want
to give an RR designation,"then General Morris has the right to say, "I
don't think he should have ast RR designation. I think he should have a
Personnel designation." Now I think challenges of that sort are going
to be extremely rare.
MR. WOLFS That then would be adjudicated.
25X1A9a
~. - By the Special Board which is only set up far the
purpose of handling the initial problems of designation, let's say, a
handful of problems of that sort.
MFt. AMORYs I think that the individual should have an absolute
right.
MEt. WOLFS I think the Head of the office.
GENERAL I~RRIB: The wavy I feel about it, on the administrative side
if the individual decides not to go with Personnel, he would be making an
awful mistake, I mean as far ss his career if he is going to be a Personnel
MR. WOLF: It seems to me the head of the office can discuss anything
with the individual and get the individual's point of view. He can accept
the individual's point of view, or he can advise him against the position
he is taking. The head of the office then determines he wants him a-s an
RR fellow. Now then, as you say, General I~rria as the AD~Peraonnel can
say, "I don't think that is correct:' Now the ad~udieation of that is
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
~. - The ad3udication of that is by a special board, or
r panel, or committee, or whatever you want to call it of five people repre-
senting each of the five chains of command.
Int. WOLFS In other words, what it adds up to is if it goes beyond
the office head, the Assistant Director, the two deputies will resolve
it, and if they can't resolve it, they will present it to the Director
for final resolution.
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MR. AM(~tY: I sffi not happy with that. It deems to me that is com-
plicated, and it is going to be productive of poor morale. He set's, "No,
I want to take a chance t0 bC," and neither I nor E3eneral Morris or the
two of us together should be able to deny that person the right to get
-into that particular branch.
t~ENERAL I+IORRIS: 7~at is right. I think the man should say what he
wants.
COLONEL BAIRD:- The individual.
`QEgERAL MORRIS: oh, yes.
MR. AMORY: Caa't we leave this to the Secretary to be redrafted?
MEt. WOLF: Yes, I think so. I think it is a very good point.
e MR. _ IfX~omebody wasn't qualified to be an RR employee you
7
wouldn't want to pass an it. We don't want people picking FI. He
elects what we would like him to be.
- 2lilX7.1 of this designation is to identify the individual
r MR.
with a given board, isn't itY I mean a stenogre~pher is going to type.
in one office like another, and the fact she is an RR girl isn't going
to make her operate ar~y differently.
t~ENERAL MORRIS: Sometimes you go into these grades.
~,
~~ COLONEL BAIRD: What I would like to do, Walter, for instance in
n the roster that the ADP is going to send us, T would have the employee
designate what he wants, and then I Would review that with the.,employee
to see whether he has rea7.ly thought this thing out, but I would certainly
'~ want to give the individual a choice of what he would like to have his career
MR. WOLF: But if you disagree with him that doesn't necessarily
mean the employee wi11 be listed as he would like.
COLONEL BAIRD: I don't know.
Mft. WOLF: Well,~Xth~at is my question.
~. - 2'~P ~Yie 9waants to be listed as Personnel and Ckneral
Morris says, '7 don't think this character has any abilities for Personnel,
therefore, I am not taking him in the Personnel career," then where are we?
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or without the IIL~~gt~e career~~for which he is elective. Ia other
words I couldn't say, "I want to be RR," and you would be helpless to say
anything about it.
~. AMORY: You may still be sitting somewhere else, but I think you
have a right to submit your career plan to the RR Board and say, "I-think
I would make a good research fellow in ferrous metals and I want you to
look over my qualifications." I dust ran into one the other day.
bQ~. WOLF: I think dust because the person says he will make a good
.analyst --
,~
DdR. AM(~Y: It means his name can be on the roster For the considera-
`~tion of that Board.
25X1A9a
MEt. _ lYo, but the fact that we don't put in here that anybody
,~
scan apply for a transfer at any time doesn't mean that they can't apply.
plat is inherent either before, during, or after this notice. They can.
2 X1A
ct ly there are a relatively small percentage
Hof the personnel involved here.
MR. WOLF: Very small. The great majority will fit, and I am wonder-
ing if we want to try to develop something sew on the five percent or the
three percent exception that may develop. I am rather inclined to think
~:
this could be carried out.
GENERAL MORRI$: I think it is all right.
25X1A9a
I recommend, Mr. Chairman, that we adopt this reguls-
tion.
25X1A9a
I second the motion.
IYfft. ELF: Are there any further eommer:tsY
MR. AMORY: Well, I eun not happy with it. I will reserve for the
DD/I on that unless there is a note either in the minutes of this meeting-
to the effect of what T have said or the revision put in.
~fft. WOLF: You mean to make it elective to give the individual an
elective right?
MR. AMORY: Don't forget this is going to be pretty widely disseminated
around, but the impression you can get around that somebody can be sloughed
off or traded is what we are trying to avoid ih the le career
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service grogram,
25X1A9a
2~IR. WOLF: Would it be satisfactory to you and to
if an appropriate notice was-made in the minutes and then the Executive
Secretary was asked to amend this study with that thought as yot,. have ex-
..pressed it in the paper, and if it is so written, do you say that it then
be approved and recommended?
MR. AMORY: A11 right.
MR. WOLF; Is that satisfactory? Is that all right with you, Eric?
25X1A9a
MR. _ It most certainly is. I thought the statement of the
problem sort of took care of it, but it a anent doesn't bec u
PP ly a se there ~
a division of agreement here, so obviously --
MR, WOLF: It seems to me this is a very fair way to have this ex-
pression rewritten and presented to the DD~I, and if the DD~I concurs,
then instead of holding everything up for another meeting this Board
will approve and recommend that this policy be adopted.
COLONEL BAIRD: I would vote against it, but I don't think this
~?
Board should be unanimous in any --
y
MR. WOLF: I don't either, but in attempting to solve the problem
I don't want to necessarily have this Board vote 3 -to 2, or 5 to ~, or some-
thing and not have concurrence of one of the deputy's offices. I would
5
much prefer to hold the thing up for a month.
COLONEL BAIRD: I would ~usta like to see the rights of the individuals
'r safeguarded to the extent I don't think they are safeguarded in this regu-
'
-~
`z lation.