CIA CAREER COUNCIL 24TH MEETING 3 MAY 1956 DCI CONFERENCE ROOM ADMINISTRATION BUILDING

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80-01826R000700150001-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 23
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 14, 2000
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: May 3, 1956
• Content Type: REPORT

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CIA CAREER COUNCIL
24th Meeting
3 May 1956
DCI Conference Room
Administration Building
Present
Harrison G. Reynolds
D/Pers, Chairman
COP-DD/P, Alternate for DD/P, Member
Lyman B. Kirkpatrick
IG, Member
H. Gates Lloyd
ADD/S, Alternate for DDS, Member
D/CO, Member
A/DDI/AD, Alternate for DD I, Member
AD/TR, Alternate for DTR, Member
Executive Secretary
Reporter
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DOCUMENT NO.
NQ CHANGE IN CLASS. ^
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CLASS. C!4ANGED I I TS S
N X-T ItEvIF.W DATE= ------~~-QIL
DAT; -(EViEWESd_013995, 41;6~W
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Agenda
Item
No.
Subject
1 Approval of Minutes of 22d Meeting . . . . . . . . .
2 Approval of Minutes of 23d Meeting . . . . . . . . .
3 "Career Planning for Individuals" - Staff Study,
dated 26 April 1956 including discussion
of Career Preference Outline and Joint
Meeting of Career Council and Heads of
Career Services and Operating Components]. . .
4 "National Defense Executive Reserve" - Staff Study,
dated 17 April 1956 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
5 "Recommendations for External Training" -
Selection of Candidates for Advanced Manage-
ment Course, Harvard University, and for
Armed Forces Staff College Memo dated
26 April 1956) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
6 New Business:
Announcement of Assignments
to Key Positions - CIA Selection Board . . . .
Proposed Schedule for Career Council Meetings .
Adjournment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Page
.
1
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1
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1 thru 10
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10 thru 14
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14+ thru 19
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19
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19 thru 20
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21
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. . . The 24th meeting of the CIA Career Council convened at 4:00
p.m., Thursday, 3 May 1956, in the DCI Conference Room, Administration Building,
with Mr. Harrison G. Reynolds, Director of Personnel, presiding . . . .
M.R. REYNOLDS: Will the meeting please come to order?
You have before you 'the agenda for this 24th meeting.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: The DDS representative is not here yet.
MR. REYNOLDS: Well, he has gone over some of this and has seen this
Staff Study on Career Planning.
Is there any action that you wish to take on items 1 and 2 of the
agenda, the minutes of the 22nd and 23rd meetings?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I move they be approved as submitted.
. . . This motion was then passed . . .
MR. REYNOLDS: Item 3 is "Career Planning for Individuals."
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I have a thought here, Harry, that I would just
like to advance as a "thought." I started to do a little editing on this Staff
Study and then I quickly dissuaded myself. We are talking about a "Career
Preference Outline" but we really don't start mentioning that until the latter
part of the Staff Study, and throughout the whole first part of the Staff Study
we talk about "career plans." I don't know how important this is, or how the
rest of the Council feels about it, but it might be a little misleading.
25X1A9a The Staff Study won't be distributed, and in
the regulation they will be particular about that.
25X1A9a
The Staff Study would be distributed if we have this
meeting with the Heads of the Career Services - this Staff Study would go to
IR'. KIRKPATRICK: Then it must be re-edited, because this is confusing.
25X1 A9a What do you want to call it?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: "Career Preference Outline." I think occasionally
you can speak of "career planning"--
25X1A9a But not a "plan. "
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That was what we wanted, - because a plan implies
acceptance.
25X1A9a I think the title here is all right, but where
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you are specific, where you say "the plan" or "a plan" that implies the whole
idea of a commitment--
MR. REYNOLDS: Then if it is agreeable to all of you, we will rewrite
this Staff Study and call it a "Career Preference Outline" rather than an
individual career plan. The use of the word "plan" will be wiped out.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: For example, you start off, in paragraph 2.a. of
the Staff Study: "A plan containing proposals . . ." - and you get the feeling
that it is a plan. I think "career planning" as a phrase is quite acceptable,
but I think where you refer to it it should be a "Career Preference Outline."
25X1A9a As a matter of fact, first it was an "individual career
plan" and we cut it down to "a plan." If we change it to "Career Preference Out-
line" that will do still more violence to the text, as it were.
. . . Mr. Lloyd joined the meeting . . .
25X1A9a
In paragraph 2.a. you could cut out the first
three words - "A plan containing" - "Proposals for an individual's training and
assignments for the foreseeable future are an incentive . . ."
IM. REYNOLDS: Mr. Lloyd, to bring you up to what we are discussing -
we have just approved the minutes and a proposal has been made by Kirk to take
out the word "plan" throughout this Staff Study, because it was agreed by the
Council that "plan" was too positive a word.
25X1A9a There was some uncertainty, when I reviewed the transcript
in detail--and I believe this was reflected by your comments,
25X1A9a
and also -as to whether we had agreed or not agreed that the title
of this was to be a career preference "outline" or "statement" - and you had
another term which you used--
25X1A9a "Preference Statement." Well, I think you have
covered that nicely in the instructions here - "The statements of preferences and
the appended comments . . ." So I think the other is all right. The only thing
is that an "outline" has the connotation of a "plan." A "Preference Statement"
is just that and no more. I think your instructions and your regulation, and
what he signs on the form, will take care of that. I don't object to "outline."
25X1A9a You could call it "Career Preference Questionnaire" in-
stead of "outline" or "statement."
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25X1 A9a : It's more than a questionnaire.
1,1R. REYNOLDS: It seems to me "outline" is a very good word. Its
very innocuous yet all encompassing.
25X1A9a
This Cthe instructions has all been developed
since I talked with you vindicating , and it has been taken care
Nom. KIRKPATRICK: I have one point on the Staff Study, paragraph 5,'..
Conclusions, subparagraph b.(l). I don't think that Career Preference Out-
lines should be eventually required for all members of the Career Staff. I
think just by putting this in the Staff Study we simply tie ourselves down to
what is probably an unobtainable commitment.
of. 25X1 A9a
25X1A9a : You would probably have some trouble, for instance,
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t
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s area - ou
in Mr. Garrison
i'R. KIRKPATRICK: And a lot of clerical employees are here only to
type and file.
25X1A9a But if they are members of the Career Staff--
iM. KIRKPATRICK: That doesn't mean they have to have a Career Prefer-
ence outline, unless they request it. But I think the Agency is going to expend
money needlessly, Rud, by even putting this into a Staff Study, because people
will pick it up as an implied commitment. Furthermore, your Career Service Heads
are going to scream about that.
25X1A9a How do we decide--
NCR. REYNOLDS: Would you prefer to wipe out subparagraph (1) or
substitute "may not" for the word "should"?
25X1A9a How is the decision to be made as to which ones will be
invited to make career plans and which ones will not, and how do we avoid the
morale problem--
25X1 A9a If you wipe out this paragraph you don't hurt
the Staff Study at all.
Mtg. KIRKPATRICK: Subparagraph (2) starts out the way it should read:
"Career Preference Outlines may be prepared for any
staff employee or staff agent, if in the opinion of
the individual or his supervisor such documentation
for the individual is required or desirable."
25X1A9a Then we would want to add to subparagraph (3) here
something about Career Service people.
25X1A9a We have tied this to the concept of the Career Staff--
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t,MR. KTRKPATRICK: Then in subparagraph (3) say: "Career Preference
Outlines for members of the Career Staff in grades GS-11 and GS-12 . . ."
: I thought probably in subparagraph (2) you
could say ". . . the individual and/or his supervisor . . ." Because if the
supervisor knows he's going to keep on doing the same work, he can try to talk
him out of it.
iR. KIRKPATRICK: Fine - "and/or."
25X1A9a In subparagraph b. (2).
1AR. KIRKPATRICK: That would be an excellent chance for the supervisor
to say, "You are at the end of the rope - let's recognize it."
MR. REYNOLDS: Are those changes satisfactory, gentler,;en?
1,11R. KIRKPATRICK: Subparagraph b.(3): "Career Preference Outlines for
y:,emoers of the Career Staff in grades GS-11 and GS-12 should be given first
priority . . .`" - that leaves it wide open.
PPPR. REYNOLDS: And subparagraph b.(l) is wiped out, and in b.(2) "the
individual and/or his supervisor . . .'"
It is so ordered.
25X1A9a Subparagraph b.(2) should also mention the Head of the
Career Service - whether in his opinion such documentation is required or desir-
able.
25X1A9a
We would have to add that. If we eliminate subparagraph
b.(l) we would have to add that, also.
25X1 A9a I think it's the duty of the Head of the Career
Service to see that this is done. He will use some supervisor - maybe the Chief
of the Division - and he will say, "I want everybody you think has a potential."
PR. LLOYD: These numbered paragraphs in parentheses are guides to the
Heads of the Career Services, as spelled out in paragraph b. there, and down below
you have the instructions to the Career Service Heads.
25X1A9a May I make one comment about the Career Preference Outline
itself? Down at the bottom of the first page is the statement:
"I recognize that the implementation of my career
preferences must depend upon the needs of the Organi-
zation as-well as upon my performance, capabilities
and interests."
Somehow I would prefer to see a period after the word "Organization" and leave out
the rest of the sentence. It seems to me that by balancing those things evenly
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you're making performance, capabilities and interests as significant as "the needs
of the Organization." Obviously it's going to depend upon his performance, other-
wise he's going to get fired. And the point we wanted to get over was that this
was not a promise or anything of that kind, but that it was just what it says it
is, and this should nail down the fact, again, that where he is going to have to
go is the important thing, not where he wants to go. Maybe somebody else would
read the sentence differently, but the way I read it it sort of equates the two
things and I'm not sure what we are looking for is an equation--
25X1A9a
The intent was not to equate it but to use it as a
psychological weapon to make sure the individual's performance, capabilities and
interests do continue to progress, and his development is dependent upon that.
25X1A9a
leaving it in.
25X1A9a M
I read it as a stronger statement than that - by
I fall between. I was going to suggest cutting
out the word "interests" and just say "performance and capabilities."
MR. KIRKPATRICK: How would you go for two sentences there? In other
words, your first sentence as Dick suggested it, and then as the second sentence:
"My performance, capabilities and interests will be given due weight." Because I
think there is something in what Dick says, that this seems to put both ideas on
an equal basis.
25X1A9a It's primarily the needs of the Organization.
25X1A9a "I understand my performance, capabilities and interests
will be given due consideration."
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That does it better, because this definitely weakens
the idea of the needs of the Organization, the way this is now written.
M;R. REYNOLDS: Is that change acceptable with every one? It is so
25X1A9a
Any further comments on the Career Preference Outline?
- May I read this now? "I recognize that the implementation
of my career preferences must depend upon the needs of the Organization. I
understand that my performance, capabilities and interests will be given due
consideration."
25X1A9a Right.
25X1A9a
Personnel?
What is the purpose of Section E - For Use of Office of
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25X1A9a Since these are coming to the Office of Personnel - that
is there for record purposes, for internal Office of Personnel recordation,
since they're being filed in the Official Personnel Folders.
MR. LLOYD: Are these two pages going to be kept separate?
25X1A9a Yes. These detailed instructions which
has recommended, will go on the back of the first page.
MR. LLOYD: Is the second page always attached to the first page?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
The first page is the only one that is for the individual.
The second page is never shown to the individual.
25X1A9a It may be.
25X1A9a It may be but it doesn't have to be. So normally the man
that is stating his preferences will get only the first page. He is handed the
first page only.
25X1A9a We did consider putting them back to back but
then you would have to put out some publication of instruction, and it's better
to have the instructions right there on the back of the form. That's the trouble
we have with the Fitness Report forms - we have to find one of those guides first
before we can fill one in.
MR. LLOYD: And that is why you have those boxes, 13, 14 and 15?
25X1 A9a So they will match up.
25X1A9a These instructions are all right with rre, but I
think there ought to be a note somewhere that there is space to more clearly
express answers, either as attached memoranda--
25X1A9a
The other half of the back of the page, beneath these
"detailed instructions" can be used for that. We can put on there "additional
remarks" or something like that. Will that take care of it?
25X1A9a
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Yes.
VIE. REYNOLDS: Are there any further comments on this Outline?
Do you think there ought to be instructions on
the one for the supervisors?
25X1A9a
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It's quite possible.
It's pretty self'-evident, but--
I would think that especially with respect to instructions
to the supervisors they would get a special briefing from their Career Services as
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to how to handle this, because it would have to be somewhat different in each one;
in other words, our instructions would be only very broad, general instructions.
I think we can assume the supervisors will understand this better than the people
down at the end of the line.
NR. KIRKPATRICK: I think instructions as to what happens to Career
Preference Outlines are going to be important as far as the supervisors are con-
cerned. Take the case of the men on my Staff, whose preferences are going to carry
them out of their basic Career Service, in many instances. Now how is this routed?
I think this can be a great stimulus to rotation if proper instructions are given
so that these will pass through the proper channels for information, as an alert,
and so on.
I have visualized how we would do it, that we would
issue our own instructions for this, and in some cases I can visualize many copies
of these so that they would. be in the hands of perhaps two or three boards; for
instance, the supervisor would have one, and the parent board might have one--I
think it's going to vary.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: But I think guidance ought to be given, because, for
example, I have Career Preference Outlines now on six men in my Staff, and I
plan to forward them--
Back to the parent service.
M,R. KIRKPATRICK: And also to the service to which they hope to go.
One instruction I thought ought to be on the back
of the supervisors' comments was that it may or may not be desirable to show this
to the individual concerned.
Guidance should be obtained from the Head of the Career
Service before it is shown, or something of that sort? In other words, this
should not be left up to the supervisor.
But you can't work that out overseas.
Well, the senior officer present, or something like that.
: That is not terribly important. May people are
used to doing this on the home leave and reassignment request, which is a prefer-
ence statement, and they put down, "This fellow wants some training but I don't
think he has the qualifications for it at all" - and they probably tell that to
the individual.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: On this showing it to people - I think the same
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principle applies as with Fitness Reports, particularly if we're going to disagree
with their preferences.
25X1A9a Maybe an instruction that should go on the back is that
every individual who makes out one is entitled to a conference with the supervisor
on the subject. That doesn't mean the supervisor has to tell him all the things
he puts down as a record for management to use. Something along those lines?
Would that conflict with your problems, Dick?
25X1A9a I don't think so.
25X1A9a In other words, the individual just shouldn't drop this
into a bottomless pit and never hear anything more about it. He should hear some-
thing from somebody.
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tell.
25X1A9a
It's going to take some doing, but we will have something
by the 24th of May.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I move the Staff Study and the Career Preference Out-
line, as presented, with the changes that have been made to do as otherwise indi-
cated, be accepted by the Council.
25X1A9a Second.
. . . This motion was then passed . . .
25X1A9a May I ask about recommendation 6.b., which is that we
schedule a special meeting with the Heads of the Career Services and the operating
officials to discuss this problem. This was one of the original suggestions. In
anticipation of possible approval by the Council, I reserved room 117 Central
Building for Thursday, 24 May, at 4:00 o'clock. The tentative idea would be
that the Heads of Career Services and of operating components would be invited
to meet with the Council to discuss this and to hear an exposition of it by Messrs.
Reynolds, Kirkpatrick - and who else shall I say? It would be a small 25X1A9a
25X1A version of the conference held in the auditorium.
25X1A9a
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It might even get him in to see his supervisor! You can't
MB. REYNOLDS: Do you have all the ammunition you're going to need now
for the instructions on the back of this sheet?
That fills me with some horror.
The original idea was that we were going to have to sell
this thing, and promote it.
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NM. KIRKPATRICK: How many Career Services do we have now?
12.
PJIR. KIRKPATRICK: I don't understand why we have to go up to Central
Building. Why can't we have it here? Is each Career Service Head going to bring
three or four people with him?
25X1A9a
He might want to bring the secretary of his Board.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Why not limit it-to 40 and have it here? It would
be more informal here.
i4R. REYNOLDS: And you would have to have graphics if you go over
25X1A9a We can have a typical flow chart here. It seems to me
that maybe, let's say, George Carey might have some remarks to make which the
Council would like to hear.
MIR. REYNOLDS: I am sure he will.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Carey and
25X1A9a They have both seen this and bought it, somewhat
reluctantly.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a This was a suggestion and I am only asking whether we do
this or not do it.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: How many of the Career Boards are going to look
askance at this Career Preference Outline? I mean, how many of them need to be
convinced, aside from 00 - who we can work on in private.
25X1A
Frankly, I would say I don't think we need it
rconvincingJ in the DD/I.
NR. KIRKPATRICK: Do we need it in the DD/P7
25X1A9a i think it would be a good idea.
IvR. KIRKPATRICK: Just for morale purposes I think it might be a good
idea for them to meet with this Board.
25X1A9a Garrison has never even seen this, because we do not
distribute the agenda to all the Heads of the Career Services. Garrison,
Saunders, and Sheff Edwards have never seen this plan, technically, although
they probably know something about it because we have talked to their people,
and so on, but they have never had an opportunity to consider it as heads of
components or heads of Career Services. I thought that maybe the Heads of
Career Services who had not taken part in these discussions might be invited to
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say what they want to say, if they have anything to say about it.
i+;R. LLOYD: Would you give them the material ahead of time?
Yes, this rewritten Staff Study - all the Heads of the
Career Services and the heads of operating components. I don't know about the
25X1 Aga heads of the Area Divisions, Dick. nodded in the affirmative. _7
That is why I suggest the heads of operating components and Career Services.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, there are 28 chairs in here, in addition to
what is around this table, and you could certainly bring in another 10, so that
would be 50 chairs.
MR. REYNOLDS: Any objection to having the meeting here three weeks
hence, as planned by Rud?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: And I think on the agenda, Rud, in addition to talk-
ing about the Career Preference Outline, that you might have a place for them
to offer any comments, and in order not to be met with mute silence in the room
you might even "plant" a few thoughts.
25X1A9a In other words, the Chairman of the Career Council will
send an invitation to these people - and to the Area Divisions, Dick? Is that
okay?
25X1A9a Yes.
}iR. REYNOLDS: Well, gentlemen, if there is no further comment on that
one we will go to item 4+. Item 5 is important, but I don't think item 4 will take
us too long.
VIR. KIRKPATRICK: Do you think the fundamental question on I+, Harry, is
as to whether we should be a part of this overall National Defense Executive
Reserve or whether we ought to be working on our own Reserve?
MR. REYNOLDS: I agree absolutely on that, that I think we ought to
be doing our own, but I think the trouble with doing our own is that if we don't
play a little ball with 0DM we're going to have some conflicts, and I don't know
how to work that out except to have a long heart-to-heart with Flemming myself,
and say, "How do we compare notes here?" I want Dick's opinion on that - because
when it comes to your side of the house, Dick--
25X1A9a This is lost on me.
v1R. REYNOLDS: It's the required expansion in the event of hot war.
25X1A9a What would the personnel of this Agency do in wartime that
they are not doing now?
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: If we have to expand to have bodies already earmarked
to us that aren't going to be brought into the Office of War Mobilization or War
Information or something else. Because CIA has said, in peacetime, "We want Wild
Bill Donovan back in wartime." So after his name in all of the files there's a
tab: "CIA Mobilization Reserve." Its doing for civilians what the military
reserve program does for the services. They have already announced in the press
and indicated they had a convention of a couple of hundred people in the Pentagon.
MR. REYNOLDS: I think the most important section is the DD/I side,
probably, and next the DDS side, because you've got to put the finger on scien-
tists for OSI, for example, which you will get in the event of an emergency which
you can't get now, and they have to be really signed up ahead of time otherwise
somebody else will get them. The Air Force got one of the best men you could
get right now - this fellow from MIT. So it's just a question of our own planning.
Would there be any difficulty with ODM if we went
ahead and got our own? I would need two or three scientific consultants who
would be full-time, and if we could sign them up now--like 25X1A5a1
We have to cooperate with ODM in order to get priority
on a man, otherwise somebody else will get him.
MR. REYNOLDS: I look upon it as part of the job I must personally
monitor, either through the Contact Division/OO offices or the universities. I
could make actual calls on top men in the universities and say, "Look, we need
your man for this specific job, WHEN-AS-and-IF."
That would be the only reason to play along with
MR. KIRKPATRICK: From the internal point of view isn't the practical
way to go about this to say to each component: Decide now what you are going to
need in the way of an immediate increment in the event of hostilities and indicate,
if possible, individuals by name, as to who you want, and if not by name indicate
as specifically as possible the qualifications desired. And then go to ODM and
say, "Here is our package. Will you go along with it?"
MR. REYNOLDS: I think we have to go over and have a talk with Flemming.
25X1A9a On the 26th of April, since this memo on the National
Defense Executive Reserve (dated 17 April 1956) was prepared, the Interagency
Advisory Committee of the Civil Service Commission met with the various agencies
on this subject, and John Macy responded to CIA's point that we could not furnish
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names publicly to ODM - "Yes, we understand that, but that would not bar your
participation." In other words, they will make special arrangements - ODM and
the Civil Service Coxrifission - so we can participate and get the earmark on
people that we need, without it becoming public property. It's the same kind
of deal that we have on innumerable other things with the Civil Service Commission.
25X1A9a I foresee us putting tags on a hundred names and finding
they are all either Army, Navy or Air Force reserves, and then the hassle is:
Who gets them. It seems like a feckless exercise.
PMR. REYNOLDS: One thing I know is true is that many of those men who
25X1A9a have worked with us--like ---would prefer to work with us rather than
25X1A5a1
the Armed Forces.- As for - I'll
go up and ask them. I would say, "Where are their affiliations? How many can
we depend upon?"
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
As a start, and it's a very small start, we have run a
roster of all separations of GS-14's and 15's from the Agency in the past three
years. We find that there are 154 GS-14's and 15's who have separated from the
Agency. This is also broken down into whether they were at the time earmarked as
when he was in the DD/I. But on the DD/P side that is where the military comes
into it.
"re-employable" or "not re-employable." The purpose of this is to clean up this
list, find out who has died, get current addresses, and furnish to the three
deputies the names of those persons who have left their area and who might be
contacted to provide a nucleus for this new Executive Reserve.
I.M. KIRKPATRICK: What about the supergrades who have left? Becker
and Douglas, and people like that?
There will be approximately 200 names, which will be
whittled down to let's say 100 that might profitably be contacted now to see if
they wish to sign up with us in the event of war.
MR. REYNOLDS: We have already had some discussions as to what we would
need in the way of a training program for some of these people who were once with
us and should be given refresher courses, particularly in the DD/I side, and the
appropriation for such a thing would be expensive and we have never gone very far
with it, but I have talked to Bob about it in the past, and I talked to Becker
I throw up my hands - I am so unsympathetic to the whole
idea. I think it's a waste of time, at least to us.
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What about technical people?
The technical people would be grabbed off by the Services.
You know very well the word will come down, "Get out of the way, we're coming
through."
I think I have some people I could persuade.
MR. KIIRKPATRICK: From the point of view of the present discussion, I
move that the recommendations in this memorandum on the National Defense Executive
Reserve be accepted and that the initiative be turned over to the Office of
Personnel.
25X1A9a I second that.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I can understand Dick's feelings about it, but I
think we have to do something.
MR. REYNOLDS: It's one of the questions asked by every one of these
Committees.
25X1A9a I'm not against your doing something about it but I don't
care what it is you do about it.
MR. REYNOLDS: It is so ordered.
25X1A9a Except I am not sure you can nominate "candidates" -
you can nominate "types." It's entirely a "type" sort of thing.
25X1 A9a We should be thinking of individuals.
25X1A9a Well, the chap that you mentioned /-indicating - 25X1A9a
25X1A9a at M.I.T. - aren't you prepared to drop his name in the hopper as a
candidate now?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
get the names we're not off the ground.
MR. REYNOLDS: I know in my old office they have a list of people--a
list they have maintained for the last two years--of people at M.I.T., and
particularly the scientific institutions around the area, that might be useful to
us, because they collect intelligence information from them.
-: Yes. I could nominate all I need.
The sooner we get the names the better, because until we
- 00 would be a big source.
Harry, may I ask something before we go on to the next
item? There is the problem of the Specialist Reserve, which is quite different 25X1A9a
from our cooperation with ODM on the Executive Reserve. In other words,-
25X1A9a need for radio operators and the Medical Staff's need for medical
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25X1A9a
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- After it becomes more specific.
My point is shall we work on it and make it more specific?
Nothing has been done for a year on it.
MR. REYNOLDS: Then we will certainly start on it. We would like to
have you include that particular grouping as an instruction to the Office of
Personnel to do some work on it. A lot of them have talked to me, I know.
Let's go on to item 5, then, gentlemen. This is the memorandum,
"Recommendations for External Training."
Do you want to comment on this, Bob?
25X1A9a The only comment I wanted to make was on the Advanced
Management Course, where Saunders was the first choice of Colonel White and
25X1A9a was second. The reason we went for his second choice Z7W was that 25X1A9a
the Comptroller has someone up there now, and this would make three in a row
from that one office, which seemed a little--
MR. KIRKPATRICK: The Advanced Management Course is much broader than
just budget and fiscal control.
25X1A9a MR. REYNOLDS: Of course, is in my Office, but I think this
course would do him an enormous amount of good, and, in turn, the Agency. He
is a very bright fellow and a very articulate man, and he needs just this type
of contact to broaden him out.
25X1A9a
I would say, going further, we did the best we could
1I.
technicians, which are not available and we don't have anybody on our rosters and.
we would have to anticipate an immediate need, in the event of war, of technical
people - not executives, not the senior people, but the technical "Indians."
DIE. REYNOLDS: But they are all fish to the same net as far as the
Office of Personnel is concerned.
But they have to be handled differently as far as ODM is
concerned. One is entirely internal and on the other we have to cooperate with
the rest of ODM. My question, then, is: Do we want also the development of this
internal CIA Personnel Reserve?
That is already in process, and the Council has known
about that - vaguely - for a long time. is working on it. When a man 25X1A9a
leaves he is asked whether or not he would wish to come back - and most of them
have said "yes" - so we have a fairly substantial number of them. I don't think
that need enter into this discussion at this time.
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with the information we had, in trying to sort out who seemed to be in a position
to offer the most. And I point out, further, this Selection Panel was strictly
a "second team" - and everybody there was representing somebody else, which is
odd in itself.
25X1A9a I must say I was intrigued by how con- 25X1A9a
sidering his job and everything else, ran ahead of everybody else. What does he
"manage" in ORR?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
He is the head of Economic Research.
What does that involve in the way of management problems?
_ About M people, and general administrative
operations.
Does he have a management problem or a supervisory problem
25X9 of allocating the work to - people?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
It's both, Dick. He site for Dr. Guthe when he's
not around. He performs a double function. And as an individual I think he
would be a top-notch representative of the Agency in that atmosphere of that
group.
MR. KIREPATRICK: I just had a very nasty thought. Gates, how many
of our Management Staff have ever been to any of these management courses?
MR. LLOYD: I don't think any of them have.
Some of them are graduate management engineers or have
25X9A2
a degree in management.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: It would seem to me every single member of - 25X1A9a
staff should go, because that's where we want to get good, sound management
policy. Because this is basically policy they're told up there, and as I under-
stand the course it's for the boys from the top businesses in the country.
25X1A9a It's done on the case system. It's policy, yes,
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
but by building up specifics.
They're more executives than management people. The
American Management Association course in New York would be, in my opinion, more
suitable for the Management Staff people.
There are two or three I have had association
with in the Management Staff that I would be embarrassed to have them go up there.
I don't think they would represent the Agency like - and Houston have. 25X1A9a
I haven't seen them all, but the ones I have seen--one of them came to us to see
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whether we should integrate the Message Center and the Signal Center, and he
took three months at it and he didn't have any justification for his conclusions.
seminar for executives, rather than a course in management - it's discussion
groups among executives.
The Advanced Management course at Harvard is more a
At the last meeting on this someone made the
remark we should keep up the standard of people who go up there.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: There is no question about that.
have a nice personality? I don't know him.
I assure you that he does.
MR, KIRKPATRICK: I certainly like that system we used for selecting
people for the National War College.
Basically I think it's a good idea.
Three of them didn't have any idea why they
wanted to go.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: It seems to me that with a list as limited as we
get for these senior military colleges and the Harvard school, this Board could
well spend an afternoon a couple of times a year interviewing these people and
making our decisions by using a panel. Now I'm not deprecating the value of
your Panel Z -indicating 25X1A9a
I would deprecate it, because I've gone through this.
The DDS has names put up to the DDS and the DDS makes a selection, and then
the third hurdle is this Panel, and the fourth hurdle is this Council, and then
the DCI. It's a pretty cumbersome piece of machinery.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Our esteemed cousins in the State Department inter-
view their people for the Foreign Service. Maybe we won't always be right but
at least we would be more certain in our own minds than if it was just on the
basis of what was on a printed page, and we would all have seen their personalities,
and I think particularly important in these things is their method of expressing
themselves, which would be a major factor in the Harvard course. '
MR. REYNOLDS: You remember the ranking we got on the people who had
gone up there? They were ranked on the basis of what they gave to the rest of
the class.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would move, rather than have the Board accept any
particular recommendations, that either next week--
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25X1A9a The letter has to arrive in Harvard on the 15th of May.
25X1A
MR. KIRKPATRICK: All right, we will get it there. The 12th is
Saturday. We could meet and you could get the letter out the next day.
MR. REYNOLDS: The only trouble is we have to have a Supergrade Board
meeting on the 10th because that is the only day--
I don't have any objection to any of these selections. I
don't know Mat all.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: But irregardless of that, Dick--
I buy your point. I think it's excellent.
MR. REYNOLDS: Excellent.
If we have the right candidates to interview. Isn't it
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
possible that we have other candidates in the Agency that should be put in the
pot?
Well, the DDS--
They had only two days to come up with their candidates.
0TR put up two for the management course and they didn't
get past the DDS.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: There are 10 candidates listed here. I'd be perfectly
willing to entertain the Deputies reopening their list prior to next Thursday,
if they want to, but I don't think they want to, frankly.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Two of these are overseas right now - three on this list:
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That leaves 7 to see.
Do you want to interview the Armed Forces Staff College
candidates?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Yes. I think the Armed Forces Staff College has
equal importance from the point of view of maintaining our relations with the
Pentagon.
MR. REYNOLDS: The Supergrade Board is going to meet at 3:30.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Couldn't this Panel meet earlier than the Supergrade
MR. REYNOLDS: I think we can meet at 2:30.
I'll send somebody - I can't do it that day.
We found that Tuesday was convenient the last time we
interviewed the six candidates for the National War College.
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: I was just thinking of the convenience of having two
meetings that Harry and I have to attend, and Red has to attend, on the same
afternoon.
MR. REYNOLDS: Well, first thing tomorrow morning we will set it up
for either Tuesday or Thursday.
25X1A9a Let me raise a question. This new regulation about the
procedure is still being written, but would you want to entertain the idea of
cutting out the Selection Panel and have the DDS make recommendations directly
to this Council?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
War Colleges, and the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, and on one slate you
are going to have 50 or 60 people to interview. Now this Council can't interview
that many. You have to have the Selection Panel to do that for you.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I don't agree. I think we can sit down two or three
afternoons once a year and do this. I think they are important enough for this
Council to do it.
MR. REYNOLDS: It's going to raise the prestige of going an awful lot,
and I think it ought to be that way. I went to the luncheon yesterday where the
Rockefeller Award was presented, and that is a big morale factor - and they had
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think so. Up to the present time practical examples
show we don't get more than three or four candidates.
For this one - we had six for the Harvard program, which
is all we are ever going to get.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That is fine. We can entertain six at this Board.
If you keep on setting up these panels the only qualification for membership on
this Council will be the ability to sign your name.
In September you are going to have the Army, Navy and Air
all the troops. We can't enter into that one but we can have a similar show.
Now about less than two months ago we agreed here that
we would have this system with the Defense Colleges Selection Panel, and a Staff
Study was prepared by the Task Force and approved here. Do we want to throw
that out?
25X1A9a
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Just cut out the Panel and simply put it before this
MR. REYNOLDS: Why can't you say that the Career Council will interview
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25X1A9a
these candidates at its pleasure; and if it chooses not to interview them
personally, it will be done by a Selection Panel. Then you don't have to alter
much of anything.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: It might have another good effect. The ones applying
for this thing simply to get an extended leave to sit in a school are going to
sharpen up a bit, because they will realize they are going to be exposed before
the senior officials of the Agency.
Did the Selection Panel interview the individuals?
No.
There's another angle to this, that a number of these people
didn't ask to apply, so they aren't necessarily asking to--
MR. KIRKPATRICK: It's an ageless tradition that you are directed to
MR. REYNOLDS: With that change I think we can do this very simply
without rewriting a Staff Study or anything.
Now, gentlemen, there is a CIA Notice here on the Selection Board
25X1A9a
These are the nominees of the three Deputies, and it was
agreed at the last meeting, that this would be reviewed.
25X1A9a I move they be accepted.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I move it be accepted, with one modification - across
the top should be written: This Notice expires 30 June 1957-
. . . This motion was then passed . . .
MR. REYNOLDS: The proposed schedule for future meetings is before you.
There are three definite dates and three other items for future meetings. Any
comments?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Fine.
This is a very large schedule.
I'd like to see b. rDisciplinary actions,
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
separation actions, handling of mediocre performance, how can the Fitness Report
be more effectively used) put up for the 17th of May, based on my experience
with the Mediocrity Board. We find a disciplinary case where the incident took
place in 1953 and it comes up to us in 1956 there is something wrong there.
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25X1A9a I don't believe it will be possible to have any papers
here for it--
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Good.
We are working all out on the competitive promotion policy
MR. KIRKPATRICK: In all seriousness, I would like to recommend we cut
down on the volume of. papers and have some discussion at this Council based upon
first-hand knowledge. I am sure , on the subject of separation
actions and disciplinary actions, has a considerable amount to contribute based
on his experiences. I think I can make a contribution based on the cases we see.
I think we can cut down on the volume of staff work that your Staff (indicating
25X1A9a
7 has to prepare - the paperwork - and get down to specific actions
and recommendations.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
I would be delighted.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I sincerely believe it.
MR. REYNOLDS: Gates, do you know whether Red would object to delaying
the Competitive Promotion Policy another week?
MR. LLOYD : I don't know.
One of the purposes of this schedule is that if there is
going to be any staff work in preparing for the meeting, we have to know what we
are going to do beforehand, because it is not possible to come up with a paper
overnight.
25X1A9a I'd like to have more time than is now available
on the Competitive Promotion item.
MR. REYNOLDS: Then, subject to Colonel White's approval, let's put
the disciplinary actions up to the 17th of May and delay the Competitive Promotion
Policy until the 24th, and move the 24th of May item up to the 31st of May.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Do you want all four of these items under b.?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: They all fit so closely together.
MR. REYNOLDS: Anybody who has sat on these boards as
and I have, know damn well what we have seen.
Do you want any papers prepared for any of these items
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think just a good forthright discussion by the
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25X1A9a
Mr. Baird has come back from his tour and he's very hot
on the subject of directed assignments, and hopes you will bring this up some-
MR. REYNOLDS: Any further business, gentlemen? If not, this meeting
stands adjourned.
. . . The meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
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