NOTE TO DCI FROM HERBERT E. HETU

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CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6
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RIPPUB
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K
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43
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December 12, 2016
Document Release Date: 
August 9, 2001
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1
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Publication Date: 
June 16, 1978
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NOTES
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Approved Fo elease.2001/11/22: CIA-RDP8OB015 002800 After your Ad Council talk in the Bubble, wY Central Intelligence Agency Washington, D.C. 20505 (703) 351-7676 Herbert E. Hetu Director of Public Affairs Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R00280b270001'-6 Approved For R Iease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554 p02800270001-6 PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF INCLUDING QUA Washington, D. C. Tuesday, June 13, 1978 Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved ForIease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B01554t002800270001-6 DIRECTOR STANSFIELD TURNER: We're very pleased to have you with us here this evening. We're very pleased that you're this interested in the state of American in- telligence. If there's one conviction that we all have here, it is that it takes the support of the populace of this country for any governmental institution like this to flourish. And we're pleased, because of your important role in informing the country in many ways, that you're interested in hearing about what we are doing. And I'd like to talk about a few of the trends in American intelligence, in part because one of those trends I think is a direct and increasing interface with the American business community, with which you, of course, have so much contact. There's been a symbiotic, a friendly, a traditional relationship between our American intelligence agencies and the American business community for many years. It's been a very useful and most proper flow of information from the business community to us, We never want to go out and use expensive, risky, clandestine means of collecting information when it's available within the American body. And so we're very grateful when business will share some of their overseas experience with us when it's applicable and do it in, as I say, a quite proper way. But there're been changes. There're trends in the way. we are doing intelligence and in what we are doing today which are opening up possibilities for us to help make this a more reciprocal relationship, one in which the product of our efforts can be of use to the American businessman, we hope. Let me explain why I believe this. If you look back to when we first organized thirty-one years ago a Central In- telligence activity in our country, the primary product that we were concerned with was information about Soviet military activity. If you look today at what the product of your intelligence community should be, I think it's apparent to all of you that while the Soviet's military element is a very Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For Lease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B0155402800270001-6 -2- important one, i+ is rot as dominant today as it was thirty years ago, when we were thirty years ago -'he leading economic power of the world and certainly the dominant political power, as well, of course, possessing vast military superiority. Over these intervening years, we have been required to develop interlocking relationships, contac+s on the economic and political spheres with many, many more countries than he Soviet Union. And most of those contacts are much more active, much more important to us today than they were when we held such a dominant position on the world scene. As a result, we in the intelligence business are doing a great deal more in both political and economic intelligence today than we did in the past. We're very concerned at the economic growth rates of countries like Japan and the Federal FZepublic of Germany, because those growth rates have an impact on you and me and our dollar and our pocketbooks and our taxes. We're interested in how much grain the Soviets are going to produce next year. Like last year 194 million tons, or the year before 223 million: the difference affects us, as you remember of he Great Grain Robery of 1973 when they entered -the market unexpectedly because they had a shortfall. We're interested in the world energy situation, because we happen to believe constrictions in energy in four or five years are likely to force a slowdown of economic growth around the world, let alone force an increase in the price of energy which will be reflected in your life and mine on a daily basis. So today we have to look at these other aspects of our relationships with the rest of the woric.:. And in recent years we've had to get into such esoteric fields as anti- terrorism and how can we help combat international terrorism, how can we find out what their plans and intentions are and thwart ilnternational terrorist activity or help protect people .who are going to be subjected to it. And how can we combat international drug trafficking and try to help supress it from the source, and certainly from importation into our country, without our getting into the law enforcement end of it, but getting Into the intelligence end of helping the country defend itself by knowing what's going on in those areas. These are new. They're demanding challenges 'to us. I don't want to in any way suggest that being well aware of Soviet military activity is not number one on our list. (t's got to be. It's the number one threat to our country, and we've got to continue to give it top priority. What I'm suggesting to you is we're having to expand; we're having to develop new areas of expertise, new talents, new methods of analysis, new methods of collecting intelligence in order to satisfy these other critical needs for our country. Because we're in greater economic analysis, I think we Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For 'lease 2001/11/22 CIA-RDP80BO155 D02800270001-6 have greater opportunities to be of benefit to the American busi- ness community. And that relates to one of the other trends +ha+ I'd like to discuss with you, and that's a trend toward greater openness in American intelligence today. As I'm sure you're aware and would expect, our intelligence, as most in he world, has always operated on the basis of maximum secrecy and minimum disclosure. I happen to think that's an in- appropriate policy for intelligence in the United States today. I happen to think that after the years of exposure that we've had of criticism and bad press over the last three of four years, the American public deserves to know more about what we are doing and why. And as I said at the beginning, only if we have that understanding can we expect to survive as an institution of our country. The country accepted us on faith for about twenty- five years. Since the inquiries, since the criticisms, +hat's not the case. And therefore, we must come forward and justify our existence and show you a return on your tax dollar. How are we doing that? We're responding more forth- rightly when asked inquiries from the media within the limits of necessary secrecy that I'll talk about in a bit. We're attending conferences. We're asking you to join us here, and we're speaking more. And we're also publishing more. And let me explain how we do that. We're publishing more that I think will be of value to you as citizens and, in particular, to the American businessman. When we do a study, having got a lot of intelligence date gathered and sifted it out and sorted it and tried to put the pieces together and come to some useful con- clusion for our national policy-makers, we look at it and we say if we took two things out of this, could we publish this and make it public. The first thing is how we got some of the informa- tion, because if you disclose that, you may never get it again. Secondly, information which gives our President, our Congress unique advantages in makign decisions, because they know this and other people don't know that they know. If we take those two things out and then say to our- selves that there's still enough information here that's meaningful and useful that it will add to the quality of American debate on this topic, we publish it. Twenty minutes ago I was in a meeting on a new forecast of the Soviet economy in the next decade and which way it1s going to go. We published one just last year, and in that one we said we see several factors that are going to constrict economic growth to the Soviet Union. And that's going to impact on American business, because they're not going to have the foreign exchange to enter the market for our products. We've just revisited that, and, as I say, a few minutes ago, I put a general approval on the study that we've re-done and said how long before we can Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For 14lease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B0155 02800270001-6 take it from its present classified form into an unclassified. one. And they said a couple of weeks. And we'll +hen publish it, hope that it will be helpful to others. You may remember that with some controversy a year ago April, we published a world energy prospect. This was a study, that had been underway for a year and a half around here. We think it's a very important one; it's a controversial one. Not every- body agrees with us. What we've really said is not what's been reported sometimes. What we said is we think in the next seven, eight years the world -- the world would not be able to get as much erergy out of the ground, as much oil, as It would like to consume. Not that the oil isn't down there, but that between now and about 198;, we're not going to be able to get it out or find alternatives at a rapid enough pace, like nuclear or solar or other energy, to satisfy our overall need. And therefore, energy will very likely be a constraint on economic activity sometime between now and 1985, or thereabouts. We published that. It was controversial. We hope it helped to focus debate on an important issue. And the controversy, in turn, fed back to us. It sharpens us. it keeps us on our toes. And it helps us, as we listen to the criticism, say "Where should we focus our intelligence collec- tion effort over the next four or five years to see whether it's going the way we thought or the way somebody else thought." So it's useful In both directions. We've revisited that study. We will re-publish It shortly, and generally Our conclusions have not changed substantially in the past year. We published studies on interna~-ional terrorism and the impact they will have on American business, and unfortunately we are predicting that. we see no pressures, no trend to lead us to believe that there"s going to be a substantial decline in this unfortunate activity. Now let me not overstate the case. There's no way we can be completely open. We're an intelligence organization, and much of what we do cannot be done if it's not done In secret. Much of what we learn and analyze is of no value to our decision markers if it's simply broadcast on the street. And there are lots of problems in our country today with re- spect to keeping as much secret as we absolutely need to.have secret in order to conduct a useful and a fruitful intelligence activity. One threat is just, pure and simple, espionage. We've had a number of cases of important industrial espionage. I guess "important" wasn't a very good choice of words. But catastrophic industrial espionage In recent years. And in- dustrial espionage is the primary focus of the Soviet Union today, sometimes in the military intelligence spheres, but Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For lease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO1554 02800270001-6 -5- also in the plain industrial processes and techniques which the Soviets are trying to gain and emulate. We believe +hat there's more attention needed in American industry to prevent- ing this. And we're working hard with industry to move in that direction. But a second real problem is that of leaks, many of which, I'm afraid, come out of the government, not out of industry. And these are a very serious problem also, and we're working on it in many different ways. But it's not an easy one, as I'm sure you appreciate. But some of the leaks that we've had in recent months have been of very serious import to our credibility as an intelligence agency for our country and our ability to continue collecting information, either by working with other human beings around the world who are beginning to lose faith in us if we can't keep secret our relationships with people like themselves, or by our technical means of collecting information, almost any one of which has a countermeasure if people think about It and work on it enough. When you start exposing how you go about doing these things, the countermeasures appear, and they appear very rapidly. Now some people feel that there may be a contradiction between a trend towards greater openness and an emphasis on greater withholding of our necessary secrets. I don't happen to think there is. I happen to think one of the greatest threats to secrecy in our country today is a lack of respect for the secret label on a document. There are too many secrets. Churchill once said when everything is secret, nothing is secret. And we've come too close to that in fact. So by attempting to declassify and publish, make available to the public as much as we can within the limits I have described to you, we hope to reduce the amount of classi- fied information and garner greater respect for that which remains and hope thereby to tighten the noose around the true secrets. After all, some of these rogues who've gone off and written books or given interviews or appeared on TV and covered information that they should not have have really done so, in large measure, as a lack of respect, a lack of understanding and appreciation of the importance of the information that they were giving away. And we've come to a time in our country where we've given too much credence, too much respect to those people who have s'o- called blown whistles, and whatnot. And one does not want to denigrate the importance of contributions like Woodward and Bernstein's to our society. But if we don't find the proper balance sometime soon so that every individual doesn't feel that it's his province to decide what should be classified and what should be unclassified for our country, all 215,000,000 of us, that's pure chaos. And I think it's about time that we restored a modicum of trust and confidence in the elected Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved Foriftease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B0155 002800270001-6 and appointed officials who make these decisions on what can be released and what must be withheld from the public. But I'm not asking or suggestin, than the public simply take us on fai4-h. I'm suggesting 40 you that s+i l l another trend in American intelligence today is a greater oversight process. Now, there's a contradiction in having public oversight and having any degree of secrecy. So what we are evolving in this country -- and it's an exciting period and process -- is what I call surroga+e public over- sight. And the surrogates for the public are numerous. First, there's the President and Vice President, who today take a very keen interest in intelligence, not only in the product, but in the process and how we're going about it. I meet with the President once a week and explain to him what we're doing, answer his questions and assure that he is well and thoroughly informed on what we are doing that would be of a concern and interest to him. Another surrogate is one that he has appointed, the intelligence Oversight Board, three gentlemen, former Governor Scranton former Senator Gore, Mr. Tom Farmer of this city, who report only to the President, and +hey work only on questions of legality and propriety of Intelligence activities. If this scoundrel Herb, or any of these other people around here think I'm doing something wrong, they write to or communicate wits the Intelligence Oversight Board; don't have to go through me. And that board investigates it, reports only to the President1- what they think happened and what should be done. Perhaps the most important oversight process that has been established in recent months has been the two commit- tees of the Congress,, one in +he Senate, one in the House of Representatives, each to oversee the intelligence process. And I think they're doing a splendid job. They keep us on our toes. They keep us up there telling them what's going on, reporting to them, and we're finding the right balance. But it's going to take time to settle it out between that degree of oversight which will give them a check, a control, which will give me a sense of relationship to the American public and what it understands and what it wants and expects from us, and what at the same time will not provide such a large forum for discussing all these very sensitive issues that we end up with too many leaks. We're going through this process today of establishing a relationship with our oversight bodies. li can't tell you that It's working perfectly or that it's going to work as perfectly as we hope it will. I'm confiden?,. I'm optimistic, but it's going to take a year or two, perhaps a little longer Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For\lease 2001/11/22 7 Oho-RDP80B01554002800270001-6 to really iron it out and to see +o it tha+ we don't end up with intelligence by timidi+y because we're worried about leaks or we're worried about too much oversight, but that we do end up wi+h +hat proper balance of control, +hat proper balance of oversight that will reflect the American values. The President, as Herb mentioned in his remarks in early February, signed a new order reorganizing the in- telligence community and somewhat strengthening my authorities as the Director of Central Intelligence -- that's the role in which I am empowered to coordinate all of the intelligence activities, not just those of the agency, the Central In- telligence Agency. And his objective here was to move in the direction of these trends that I've been describing to you. For instance, he gave me new authority to manage the budgets of all of the intelligence activities, whether they're resident in the Department of Defense or the Central Intelligence Agency, or elsewhere. And that's been very helpful in bringing this community together. He gave me authority to dovetail the analytic effort of the intelligence community. That's very important, and there is a very important and fine distinction here, because we do two things in intelligence: we collect information and we analyze it. Now in analyzing it, you want to be very careful that you let.divergent views come forward, because when you're pulling all these diverse, miniscule pieces together into a puzzle, it's not always exactly clear what the picture is going to say, and different people interpret it differently. So in strengthening my Director of Central Intelligence authori- ties here, the President has been very careful that we maintain an independent analytic capability in the Defense Department and in the State Department, and here at the Central Intelligence Agency. And they work with, but compete with each other, so that we do have different views at all times. On the other hand, his order also strengthened my authority to control these collection elements, how we go out and get the information. That's expensive; it's risky. We don't want more duplication than we can possibly minimize here. We want to see to it that the effort is well coordinated. We don't want this hand looking to the right, and this one looking to the left, and no one looking down the middle. We don't want somebody collecting on part of the problem and nobody else collecting on the other part. We want to be sure that everything is brought together so that the gaps in what one intelligence collection capability can leave you are filled by another one. So I am now empowered to control all of the collection elements as to what they do day by day. And finally, +he President's new order established a committee of the Na+ional Security Council to give me overall Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For FPtease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554il902800270001-6 direction as +o what our priorities are. It's not we in intelli- gence who should decide wha+'s mos+ impor+an} for the country to know today and tornorrow. I+'s for +he people who are going to use 1+, the consumers. And that's what +his new committee will do. So with these trends that I am tried to describe to you of greater emphasis on economic and poli+ical intelligence, greater openness on the one hand, but a very high concern for keeping secret what must be kept secret on the other, and a more thorough oversight process, I think +ha+ the trends in intelligence today are for greater effective_nss for our country. I believe we have the best intelligence service in the world. There's no reason we cannot keep it that way. I assure you that every one of us here is dedicated to doing just that. Thank you. [Applause.. I'd be happy to try to respond to your questions. General Grunther, you always have a question. How are you tonight, sir? Nice to see you. In the back. Q: 3ecause of all the sniping -'hat's taken place, I'm very curious about the morale of the organization. I should think i+ would be a most difficult job for you to recruit and keep high morale with some of these nuts around Washington. DIRECTOR TURNER: That's a good point and one I appreciate. Very fortunately, to take the morale thing first -- I mean the recruiting part first, we believe that the recruit- ing has picked up even through the criticism period in 1974 till now. Recently, as you may have noted, we placed an ad in the New York Times. We got a little publicity out of that. And we got two and a half times as many applicants in the last couple of months as we've had in any spring period in the past. We recruit on a hundred fifty campuses. We think we're getting very good talent. And I'm 'impressed by the! young men and women I see joining our intelligence organization. There is no question that we've had years of intense criticism, of being exposed to the public for almost the first time. And then being exposed in a critical way has had a definite impact on morale in ojr Intelligence community. I think we're pulling out of it. And I can only say that the people here are so fine that despite the discouragement that comes from Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved FotRlease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B015540002800270001-6 -9- being criticized and seeing distortions in the press to which you cannot respond frequently, +hat I have a great faith that they have continued +o do their work just as well, and tha+ their morale will return in time. Le+ me give you an example. I talked with one of our more senior people the o'her day. A couple of years ago he had a son in a liberal Eastern college. And you know, his son was miffed +hat his father worked in the CIA. Now after you've been here twenty or thirty years, that gets to you. It's tough on people when the public attitude is such +hat what you joined as an honorable profession and what you've dedicated your life to -- and I assure you that the people in this profession -- and I'm a newcomer to it; and I'm not boasting to you at all -- they make as many sacrifices personally in the name of trying to serve their country as do any people in our government. Q: What are the qualifications you look for in recruiting....? DIRECTOR TURNER: What are the qualifications for One'of the big qualifications is some experience after college. We like to get people who've been out and done most anything for a couple of years. Why? Because those who join our clandestine side, who go overseas and are operators over +here, have big responsibilities on their shoulders. And we like somebody who's got just a little extra sense of maturity. On our analytic side, the people who are open and above board and work here on analyzing the information collected, we have a surprising diversity of intellectual disciplines re- presented here. Yes, +here are a lot of history and English type majors, or political scientists who have broad views on the world political scene. But we have people in psychiatry, biology, chemistry, almost any skill that you go to. So when young people come to me and say "What should I tell you if I want to join the organization?," I say study what you're good at, because we've got it here in some degree. Yes, ma'am. Q: Can you hold out any hope that terrorism, world terrorism will be brought under control? DIRECTOR TURNER: Any hope that world terrorism will be brought under control? The one small hope or ray of hope that I see is that the intelligence agencies of the world are Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For i'rfease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B015502800270001-6 -1 0- cooperating almost wholeheartedly in this one area, not communist versus noncommunis+, specifically. But we and all our Wes+ Euro- pean allies, for ins+ance, have a very close and complete exchange of information on this. That's no+ a big hope, I'm afraid. i think 1t basically is going +o take a s+iffening of attitudes in all of our societies. We're talking more about the European one because we get less, and partly because I think our society doesn't wan+ to tolera+e that, plus we have +o stand up and be counted on +he street corner when some of these things happen. I'm not sure +ha+'s always the case. But I'm not able to give you any real big encourage- ment, I'm afraid. Q: My question's related to the first one. Doesn't the new -- +he various exposures and the layers of oversight make it difficult to develop foreign sources of information....? DIRECTOR TURNER: The disclosures are very serious in that regard. If We don't close +hem off, +he leaks off so that people overseas have confidence they can work with us -- foreign intelligence agencies, individuals iln countries abroad -- we won't be able to have that kind of capability in four or five years.. I'm worried about +he long-term impact. It is -- it is a very serious one. The oversight process I believe will work out to where it is not a risk. Well, any time you tell anybody a secret, it's a risk. But I think we will work out a process, are working out a process with the Congress whereby that over- sigh+ can be kept within bounds. I was up there all last week talking about Cubans in Zaire on a very highly classified basis. There was one leak the firs+ day, and I stood up and complained the next three days, and +here hasn't been a leak since. I think his is an educational process. And I have found the Congress co- operative, understanding. You have problems from time to time. But I think it will work itself out. And as I say, it takes some time. Q: I'd like to ask you, because we're not aware of +he industrial sabotage problem, would you give us an example of some of this that we may not have known? DIRECTOR TURNER: Is the country aware of the industrial espionage problem, and can I give an example. I'm not sure +he country's well aware of it. But in December, 1976, two young men named Boik [?) and Lee, who worked in a contractor's plant in Los Angeles, a contractor that had a major program with us here in the Intelligence world, were ar- Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For lease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554O02800270001-6 11- rested. They'd been taking documents out of the plant, shipping them. down to Mexico City and transferring +hem to the Soviet Union there. They were caught in Mexico City and returned to he United States, and +hey have since both been convicted and sentenced to jail. Here in Washington, D. C., and the date slips me; it was before I got here, but I think the fall of '76, a former employee of the agency threw a package over the fence around the Soviet Embassy on 16th Street. Fortunately, from what I read of it, the Soviets thought it might be a bomb, so they called for the fire department. [Laughter.] We go+ our package back and the man in jail. [Laughter.] Detente, in my opinion, is a net plus for our country. From an espionage point of view, it's a net minus. We are more open to their coming in here, because still, de- spite detente, an American walking down +he street in Moscow is a much more obvious foreigner than a Soviet walking down the street in Washington. Q: [Inaudible.] DIRECTOR TURNER: Well, in response to the first one as to why we may not have taken into account all of the efforts of the Soviet Union to use alternative sources of energy, you have to keep in mind our study talks about between now and 1985. And what we tried to do was project what develop- ments, either in conservation or in greater use of coal, might take place before that. time. And we feel that a decline in production of the Soviets' oil fields is going to be greater than these other alternatives can be in that period. Now, over the longer haul, number one, they've got lots of oil in +he ground. And number two, you can convert many more plants to coal, and so on, in that period of time. Your question on the United States was similar, wasn't= Q: Yes. DIRECTOR TURNER: As far as the United States was concerned, what we were predicting was based on +he conservation laws that were in effect, not taking into account any marked improvements on the President's energy bill, which is still being debated. And we could improve somewhat if we conserve more in the next few years. It was trying to take into account nuclear power plants and other conversions to coal, and so on, that will be coming along. But of course, as you're well aware Approved For Release 2001111/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For Please 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B015502800270001-6 12- in +he energy business, the ra+e of construction of nuclear power plan+s in our country and in the world is down very precipitately from what had been predicted just three or four or five years ago. The rate of additions of +ha+ kind of alternative has slowed markedly. And again, the concern simply was +ha+ in +his seven year time frame, there wasn't enough potential +ha+ could be brought on to he line in a practical way. Q: What form of redress is there to leaks by members of government, particularly in Congress, and in your opinion is it adequate? DIRECTOR TURNER: That's a political explosive question., [Laughter.] We have a very antequa+ed espionage law under which the two cases I mentioned were prosecuted. You have to be caught giving it to a foreign power, no+ leaking it to The Washington Post. I think tha+'s still not a foreign power. So --here is not a good law that applies specifically to +hat kind of a leak, if it isn't real espionage. When you join the Central Intelligence Agency, you must sign a secrecy agreement tha+ says you will let us check your manuscripts for classified information before they're published. Next week I go to.+es+ify in the first case we've taken to court of an individual, a former employee named Snepp who published a book w i thou4- providing us an opportunity to review it and after express'y promising me himself tha4 he wouldn't so do i+. So we asked the Attorney General and he has brought him to court. And the results of that case will in some sense determine how +ha+ segment of the government is treated; that is if the case is upheld, and that will strengthen +he use of our secrecy agreement as a legal means of enforcing +his issue. Beyond that, it's very difficult for me to say what could best help us next. There're some people who would like to have much tighter legislation. There are problems here with the First Amendment, and all of us respect the need and the right of the press In our country to be free, to be able to get information. I'm personally am concentrating on ways within our government to close the gap by making people more conscious of the problem. Every couple of nights -- well, not +hat often, but every so often as you walk out of +his building, your briefcase is inspected. Conscientious people often take classified material tome to work on it. But that just is not acceptable. As much as I' like to get another couple of hours' work out of them, I'm more concerned with the security. And it's not, you know, that that individual is all that likely to do something wrong with It. It's the engendering of an attitude of carelessness or casualness about protecting this information. Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For lease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO15 002800270001-6 -13- So I haven'+ answered your question very directly. But we're in a major debate within the government as to whether we should try to get additional legislation. We're sort of waiting to see how this first case comes out. Q: To what extent are you seeking cooperation from those who are civilians who either are assigned overseas for a period of time, or +ravelling overseas, in carrying out your activities? DIRECTOR TURNER: We're very -- very much seeking your help and advice. We have a section of +he Central In- telligence Agency called the Domestic Collection Division, which is totally open, listed in the phone book in thirty- five cities in our country. We maintain regular relationships with many American corporations. We protect them as sources as much as we try to protect undercover sources overseas. At the same time it's purposely above board and it's not any clandestine type of relationship. We find this very valuable to us. As I did say earlier, it's just not right to go out and spend money and take risks to get information that is readily available. We have on several occasions been able by simply going to Ameri- can industry -and saying "What's happening here?," to find that Company A was selling twenty-five of something to he Soviet Union, Company B was.selling twenty-five more, Company C was selling seventy-five of them, and when you added it all up, you find that it was interesting and alarming whereas any one of the individual statements was no+ all that significant. I+ was only because it was our job to go and collate the in- formation that we got it. And we're very grateful for the cooperation we have from American business. Q: ...Two or three issues that are on your mind as you look to the future for the next five years? DIRECTOR TURNER: Well. [Laughter.] What two or three issues are on my mind as I look ahead. I think that the overall energy and economic Issues that the world faces and how we avoid the kind of recession ,that developed out of the '73-'74 oil price rise. How we make sure we don't, if we did in fact have one, get into a dog-eat-dog contest that drives everybody and their economies down. How you handle the Japanese situation. We had a lecturer here this afternoon. We have sort of enrichment lectures once in a while here, and you get a distinguished individual in. And they had Professor Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For I'Meease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B01554MO2800270001-6 Reischauer today talking about Japan. And he said, "You know, what you're toiling the Japanese today is the rules have changed." The rules used to be we're all for free +rade; we're all for everybody ge+"ing out doing his best, every man for himself. That's our basic economic credo in this country. Now we're telIing the Japanese "No, no, +he rules are you've got to slow down; you're doing too well." And that's really what we're doing. And it's understandable, and it's quite proper, and there're a lot of arguments on both sides of this. But you know, how do you solve tha+ problem? How you get the Japanese to play the game is going to be very critical to all of us. Secondly, there's just no way you cannot be concerned at the amount of tension and +he amount of resources the Sovie+s are giving to their military posture, coupled with the fact, as demonstrated in recent months, they're finding a new way to employ that military posture. Today they have close to military pari"y. They have more resources today available to give away, to loan, to use as they've been doing, coupled with a very good military power, the Cubans; coupled with +he availability of a high capacity airlift where they can meet other people's needs quickly. Another one, as I see it, is that we have the long- term strength. We have the economic wherewithal, we have the technical knowledge to help Third World countries to pull them- selves up by -the bootstraps. But in the short term, many of them, wi+h unsettled conditions in their countries or on +heir borders, are looking for and wan+ the military help. We're no+ as anxious to get into that game, because it isn't the long-term productive thing for them. So we've got to handle +he short-term Soviet threat in that kind of a sphere so our long-term forces will come to bear. It's an interesting and difficult problem all around the world. Those are z couple of things. [Laughter. i Q: [Inaudible.] Is that all right? DIRECTOR TURNER: I'm really not sure I understand your question. Q: Was there anything startling that you've learned since you came....? DIRECTOR TURNER: Oh, okay. Q: Any changes that you'd make. Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved Fo lease 2001/11/22 : f A-RDP80BO155 002800270001-6 DIRECTOR TURNER: Well, I've never tried to be a noncontroversial fellow, and I've stirred up some controversy to make some changes here. This is a marvelous organization, but it's got a couple of characteristics +ha+ I +hough+ were ripe for change. It's a young organization. I+'s 31 years old this September. And I think its personnel management system is just getting settled down, because we got a lot of marvelous people in at the beginning and they've been going through he system, but after thirty years they're beginning to leave. And we haven't -- as I said, it's a very operationally oriented group, and, you know, getting the job done was their first thing -- set up all the management personnel management tools that you need .here to insure people of a good prospect and a good career when +hey come in. So a great deal of my effort and attention has been levied on the personnel situation. I'm told to build for 1988, because if we don't worry about that, we won't be blessed by the quality of people we have now. I have on one or two occasions found it necessary to combat what I felt was too much of a familial attitude here. This is a relatively small organization, and it's a very tight knit one and a very family oriented one. But we're in the big time, and you can't manage when you have these changes over the last ten or fifteen years in the way you collect intel- ligence, many more technical, sophisticated systems. You can't manage the old plant in the same way. And sometimes +hatts tough on the people whose skills are no longer needed. And we've had to do some.... Q: Could you comment on the CIA here vis-a-vis +he Russian counterpart? DIRECTOR TURNER: Yes. The Russian counterpart is called the KGB. It's much larger than we are. They put a tremendous amount of manpower !not it. We will never attempt or want to match them in what we call human intelligence collection, spies that they turn out in great numbers. That's one reason I say we suffer under detente from an intelligence point of view. From a technical intelligence collection point of view, because of our technical capabilities in this country, we are well ahead of them. On the third aspect, the first two being ways of collecting intelligence, the third being what I refer to as analyzing and estimating it, I have the conviction +hat in a free society you can get much better free analysis than you can In a dictatorial society. And I think we'll always stay ahead of them in interpretation of +he informa+ion collected. Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For Fase 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B015541*102800270001-6 You can afford in this building to come +o a conclusion that President Car+er doesr'+ like. I don't know that you can do that in +he KGB under President Brezhnev. [Laugh+er.J Q: [Inaudible.] DIRECTOR TURNER: Yes. Yes, it's possible. That's, of course, one of the ways +hey go about i+. And we've uncovered that in recent months, that type of activity where an American, a plain traitor to his country, was working in a corporation and passing Information on out. Q: But not a Russian per se. DIRECTOR TURNER: I+'s unlikely to be a Russian, per se. That's correct. Or if he is, he's somebody who has come over here wi4h enough savoir faire +o disguise him- self as not being a Russian. There are some of +hose around +hat get into the country somehow and get themselves estab- lished as a European or some non-Soviet type. Q: Is I+ '-rue +hat the CIA has an unlimited budge+? DIRECTOR TJRNER: Absolutely no+. [Laugh+er._i You should be around here when -the budge+ debates go on, right now. And you know, we debate; about five more people or very small sums of money comparatively. And our budge+ Is under very close scrutiny by these oversight com- mittees and the appropriation committees of +he Congress. Four committees look at our budget, and I can assure you it's as thoroughly scrubbed as any department's budge+. It just is not published. But to some extent you have things not thoroughly scrubbed, because no+ every member of Congress looks at it, though they don't all look at every detail of the Agriculture budget ether, I'm sure, or the Justice Department's, or anyone else's. But the information is available to every member by going to the oversight committees. Q: Recently we heard that the American Embassy had been bugged in Russia. Is this very prevalent throughout the world? And has i'- damaged our in+eliigence effectiveness? DIRECTOR TURNER: Well, this is very prevalent in Moscow. We had the b'ig seal with its bug in i+ twen+y-five Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved ForIease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B0155002800270001-6 years ago in our Embassy +here. The Soviets gave us this seal, and it had a bug in i+. [Laughter.] This is a egregious event where +hey tunneled under our building, put devices of one sort or another in i+. I'm sure that it happens else- where, but I think this, as I said, is an egregious case. We have not yet been able to technically determine the extent of +he damage. It's a very complex technical issue. Yes, ma'am. Q: With the collection and analysis of classified information, do you use outside contacts....? DIRECTOR TURNER: Yes. We have a balance here, and we're very tightly held down by the Congress as to how much contracting out we do. And you can see their point on the one hand. It's just another way to increase your staff, that you misuse it to just, you know, hire people. If you hire them for a specific task that has, you know, a limited frame and time, that's much more likely, much more useful. In addition, we have a group of about thirty to thirty-five consultants we keep sort of in the wings. And when we do a.major study, we look at the list of +hem and say "Which are most appropriate to this? Which complement our own in-house talents?" And we ask two, three, four of +hem to come in for a few days at the beginning, a few days in the middle, and at the end +hat work with us and make sure that we haven't overlooked some major point. And they're very, very helpful to us. Some are academics. Some are from other areas of life. Q: Sir, would you care to comment on your assess- ment of the Soviet long-term interests in the Middle Eastern oil? DIRECTOR TURNER: The Soviets' long-term interest in Middle Eastern oil? That I think goes back to the czars, not to the Soviet Union even. And they're looking out. Well, I'm just only going to emphasize that, yes, I think they have a thirst for the warm water, now the oil of the Middle East, but it goes back before oil was ever significant even. And if you take seriously our energy forecasts for the Soviet Union, it means that they've got to be more and more interested in it. Their recent move into Afghanistan -- it's not to an oil nation, but it's moving down into that area, and it has +he Iranians very worried. Q: I have one question, Admiral Turner, maybe the final one, because we appreciate your time. It's been a long, hard day. Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For pease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554002800270001-6 Now +hat you're moving into this kind of public posture, is Herb properly protected....? DIRECTOFZ TURNER: Wei I, I brought Herb out here a+ the risk of his 11 `e. And he's survived a little more than a year now. And more +han that, I'm sure +ha+ +hose of you who know him know what a tremendous person he is, what a very capable person he is. And I believe from all I can see, he's won the hearts and minds of all +he people out here too. Thank you for being with us. [Applause.) Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved Forplease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO1554 02800270001-6 ADVERTISING COUNCIL CIA Auditorium 1745, Tuesday, 13 June 78 Pleased to be here - grateful interested in intel activities - One trend - symbiotic relationship with business o traditional helpful relationship - one direction - new twist o moving more to study economic activities o significant change - hope benefits business community Look back 30 years - first organized s Prime product - Soviet mil Today - 150+ economic + political Soviet military s illirst, but expandin our expertise/interests >C,0~ AA~ 4:L.* 0-1 t~_U~ AXAO~l anti-terrorism o anti-drug traffic o energy problems, etc. New/demanding challenge Relate to you in business because changed product encourages 2nd trend: greater openness Traditionally - max secrecy - Not appropriate today - Public's right to return on tax $ o speaking o conferences o publishing - here business can benefit directly Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For,&Iease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B0155F 002800270001-6 Studies e.g.: energy Soviet economic prospects terrorism Can't be completely open - must keep some secrets or value lost o govt and industry - serious problem safeguarding info - industrial espionage - prime Soviet target - ascendency o where your concern must be to understand threat, convey to employees, take countermeasures o govt's concern includes same measures, plus reducing corpus of secrets - fewer - easier to protect - respected more - Too many - not respected - serious problem o o books interviews - logical extension - 215 million - chaos o time for more trust o not accept on faith alone Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved Forplease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO1554 D02800270001-6 Oversight - surrogate process - Pres - VP - JOB - Congress - Adequate mechanism for whistle-blowers - respect - Risks - oversight o timidity o leaks o over management Last January - reorganization - recognized these trends o budget/tasking o analysis o NSC(I) Trends strengthening capability - In ways will support & defend our democratic institutions Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 T q~~~ t DCI's REh1ARK/~p~0o1TrI~(as~~~~Ih11/2Z:A~I~8~155 (428IIiT17~~0~~~6 We are very pleased to have you here with us this evening. We are very pleased that you are this interested in the state of American intelligence. There is one conviction we all have here is that it takes the support of the populus of this country for any governmental institution like this to flourish and we are pleased because of your important role in informing the country in many ways that you are interested in hearing about what we are doing. I'd like to talk about a few of the trends in American intelligence. In part, because one of those trends I think is a direct and increasing interface with the American business community in which you of course have so much contact. It has been a symbiotic, a friendly, a traditional relationship between our American intelligence agencies and the American business community for many years. It has been a very useful and most proper well of information from the business community to us and we never want to go out and use expensive, risky, clandestine means of collecting information when it is available within the American body. So, we are grateful to business when they share some of their overseas experience with us when it is applicable, within let us say a quite proper way. But there have changes in trends in ways we are doing intelligence and in what we are doing today, which are opening up possibilities for us to make this a more reciprocal relationship one in which the product of our efforts can be of use to the American business man, we hope. Let me explain why I believe this. If you look back to when we first organized 31 years ago, a central intelligence activity in our country, the primary product that we were concerned with was information about Soviet military activity. You look today, what the product of your intelligence community should be, I think it is apparent to all of you that while the Soviet military element is a very important one, it is not as Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO155 02800270001-6 as dominant today as it as 30 years ago, when we were 3 years ago the leadin: economic power in the world, and we certainly were the dominant political power as well as possessing vast military superiority. Over these intervening years we have been required to develop interlocking relationships, contacts on the economic and political spheres with many, many more countries than the Soviet Union. Most of those contacts are much more active, much more important to us today than they were when we held a dominant position on the world scene. As a result we in the intelligence business are doing a great deal more in both political and economic intelligence today than we did in the past. We are very concerned of the economic growth rate in countries like Japan and the Federal Republic of Germany because those growth rates have an impact on me and me and our dollar, and our pocketbooks and our taxes. We are interested in how much grain the Soviets are going to produce next year. Like, last year 194 million tons, or the year before 223 million, the difference effects us as you remember from the great grain robbery of 1973 when they entered the market unexpectedly because they had a shortfall. We are interested in the world energy situation because we happen to believe constrictions in energy in 4 or 5 years are likely to force a slow-down of economic growth around the world, let alone force an increase in the price of energy that will be reflected in your life and mine on a daily basis. So, today we have to look at these other aspects of our rleationship with the rest of the world and in recent years we have to deal with such esoteric fields as anti-terrorism. How could we help combat international terrorism, how can we find out what their plans and intentions are important to international terrorist activities or help protect people who are going to be subjected to them. How could we combat international drug traffic and try to help suppress it from the source and certainly from importation into our country. Not our getting into the law enforcement end of it, getting into the intelligence end and helping the country defend itself by knowing what is going on in those areas. These are new and Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 2 Approved For Wease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B0155402800270001-6 demanding challenges to us. I don't want to in any way suggest that being well-aware of Soviet military activity is not number one on our list, it has got to be, it is the number one threat to our country and we have got to continue giving it top priority. But, what I am suggesting to you is that we are having to expand, having to develop analysis new areas of expertise, new talents, new methods, new/knewledge, new methods of collecting intelligence in order to satisfy these other critical needs for our country. Because we are in greater economic analysis, I think we have greater opportunity to be of benefit to the American business community. And that relates to one of the other trends I would like to discuss with you. And that is a trend toward greater openness in American intlligence today. Though I am sure you are aware and respect our intelligence as most in the world, but we have always operated on the basis of maximum secrecy and minimum disclosure. I happen to think that is an inappropriate policy for intelligence in the United States today. I happen to think that after the years of disclosure that we have had of criticism, and bad press over the last 3 or 4 years, the Ameircan public deserves to know more about what we are doing and why and as I said at the beginning, only if we have that understanding can we expect to survive as an institution of our country. The country accepted us on faith for about 25 years, since the inquiries, since the criticisms that is not the case, therefore, we must come forward and justify our existence and give you a return on your tax dollars. How are we doing that? We are responding more forthrightly when asked inquiries by the media within the limits of necessary secrecy, I'll talk about them a bit, we are attending conferences; we are asking you to join us here, we are speaking more and we are also publishing more. Let me explain how we do that. We are publishing more that I think will be of value to you as citizens and particularly the American businessman. When we do a study, having got intelligence data gathered, sifted out and sorted it and tried to put the pieces together and try to come to some useful conclusion for our national policy Approved For Release 2001/11/23 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For fie. ease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80B01554 P02800270001-6 makers. We look at it and we say, we took two things out of this could we publish this and make it public? The first thing is how we got the information, if we expose that we may never get it again. Secondly, information which gives our President, our Congress unique advantage in making decisions because they know this and other people don't know that they know. If we take those two things out and then say to ourselves is there still enough information here meaningful and useful that it will add to the quality of American debate on this topic if we publish it. Twenty minutes ago I was in a meeting on a new forecast of the Soviet economy in the next decade and which way it is going to go. We published one just last year and in that one we said we see several factors that are going to constrict economic growth in the Soviet Union. That is going to impact on American business because they are not going to have a foreign exchange to enter the market of our products. We just revisited that and as I say a few minutes ago, put a general approval on the study that we have redone and says how long before we can take it from its present classified form into an unclassified one. It may take a couple of weeks and we will then publish it and hope that it will be helpful to us. You may remember that some controversy a year ago April we published a world energy prospect. This is study that had been under way a year and a half around here, we think it is a very important one. It is a controversial one not everyone agrees with us, what we have really said is not what has been reported sometime. What we said was we think in the next 7 or 8 years the world, the world will not be able to get as much energy out of the ground as oil as we would like to consume. Not that the oil isn't down there. Between now and 1985 we are not going to be able to take it out, or find alternatives at a rapid enough pace, like nuclear or solar or other energy to satisfy our overall needs and therefore energy will very likely to be a constraint, among economic activities sometime between now and 1985 or thereabouts. We published that, it was controversial we hope that it helped focus debate on an important issue and the controversy in turn fed back to usApproved'for Reldase 20bIM/H 08I.R D~g6~0i~g4'2D028 bb 7bb0is6we 1 i sten Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554 902800270001-6 to the criticism and say, where should we focus our next intelligence collection effort over the next four or five years to see whether it is going the way we thoug~.t, or the way somebody else thought, so it is useful in both directions. We revisited that study, we will republish it shortly and generally our conclusion has not changed substantially in the past year. We published studies on international terrorism, the impact they will have on American business and unfortunately we are predicting that we see no pressures, no trends to lead us to believe there is going to be a substantial decline in this unfortunate Now let me not overstate the case, there is no way we can be completely open.- We are an intelligence organization and much of what we do cannot be done if it is not done in secret. Much of what we learn an analyze is of no value to our decision makers if it is simply broadcast on the street. And there are lots of in our country today with respect to keeping as much secret as we absolutely need to have secret in order to conduct a useful and a fruitful intelligence activity. One threat is pure and simply espionage. We have had a number of cases of important industrial espionage, I guess important wasn't a very good choice of words, catastrophic industrial espionage in recent years. Industrial espionage is the primary focus of the Soviet Union today. Sometimes in the military intelligence sphere , but also in the plain industrial processes and techniques which the Soviets try to gain and emulate. We believe there is more attention needed in American industry in preventing this. We are working hard with industry to move in that direction. A second real problem, that of leaks, many of which I am afraid come out of the government, not out of industry. These are a very serious problem also, we are working on it in many different ways, but it is not an easy one, which I am sure you appreciate. Some of the leaks that we have had in recent months have been of very serious import to our credibility as an intelligence agency for our country and our ability to continue collecting information either by working with other human beiA'OorSvrgd r SlAgrelf0d'-491 2: bA1RD#REWid 06281bo271O0O1;-6i f we Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554 P02800270001-6 can't keep a secret our relationship with people like themselves. Or by our technical means of collecting information almost any one of which has a countermeasure if people think about it and work on it enough. When you start exposing how you go about doing these things the countermeasures start appearing very rapdily. Now some people feel it may be a contradiction between greater openness and an emphasis on greater withholding of our necessary secrets. I don't happen to think there is. I happen to think that one of the greatest threats to secrecy in our country to day is a lack of respect for the secret label on the document. There are too many secrets. Churchill once said, "when everything is secret, nothing is secret." and we have come too close to that in fact. By attempting to declassify and publish and make available to the public as much as we can within the limits I have described to you, we hope to reduce the amount of classified information and garner greater respect for that which remains, and hope thereby to tighten the noose around the true seekers. After all, some of these rogues who have gone off and written books, or given interviews or appeared on tv covered information that they should not have have maybe done so in large measure as a lack of respect a lack of understanding and appreciation of the importance of the information they are giving away. We come to a time in our country when we have given too much credence, too much respect, perhaps to those people who have so called blown-whistles or whatnot. One does not want to denigrate the importance of contributions of Woodward and Bernstein to our society, but if we don't find a proper balance sometime soon. So that every individual doesn't decide it is his problem to decide what should be classified and what should be unclassified for our country. All 215 million of us, that is pure chaos. I think it is about time tryst and we restored a modicum of/confidence in the elected and appointed officials who make these decisions on what can be released and what must be withheld from the public. I'm not asking or suggesting that the public simply take us onfaith, I'm suggesting to you that still another trend in American intelligence today is a greater oversight Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 . Now there is a contradiction in having public oversight and having any degree of secrecy. So what we are evolving in this country and it is an exciting period and------ what I call surrogate public oversight. And the surrogates for the public are numerous. First, there is the President and the Vice President who take a very keen interest in intelligence, not only in the product but in the progress on how we are going about it. I meet with the President once-a-week and explain to him what we are doing, answer his questions and assure that he is well and thoroughly informed on what we are doing that would be of a concern and interest to him. Another surrogate, one he has appointed, is the Intelligence Oversight Board. Three gentlemen, former Governor Scranton, former Senator Gore and Tom Farmer of this city, who report only to the President. They work only on questions of legality and propriety of intelligence activities. Herb or any of these other people around here think I'm doing something wrong, they write to or communicate to Intelligence Oversight Board, they don't have to go through me. That Board investigates it they think reports only to the President what they think happened and what/should be done. Perhaps the most important oversight process that was established in recent months has been the two committees of Congress, one in the Senate, one in the House of Representatives, each to oversee the intelligence process and I think they are doing a splendid job. They keep us on our toes, they keep us up there telling them what is going on, reporting to them and we are finding the right balance but it is going to take time to settle it out. Between that degree of oversight which will give them a check, a control, which will give me a sense of relationship to the American public, and what it understands and what it wants and expects from us. And at the same time, will not provide such a large forum for discussing all the very sensitive issues that we end up with too many leaks. We are going through this process today in establishing a relationship with our oversight bodies. I can't tell you that it is working perfectly or that it is going to work as Approved For Release 2001/' 1/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 perfectly as weA avid IF4or1=.lealser2OOdfr1ft(22ntcIiI R P OI5S PO2 O2T OQg-6joi ng to take a year or two or perhaps a little longer to really iron it out and to see to it that we don't end up with intelligence by timidity because we are worrried about leaks and we are worried about too much oversight but that we do end up with that proper balance of control that proper balance oversight that we reflect The President Herb mentioned in his remarks, in early February, signed a new Order reorganizing the intelligence community and somewhat strengthening my authorities as the Director of Central Intelligence, that is the role in which I am empowered to coordinate all of the intellignece activities not just those of the Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency. And his objective here was to move in the direction of these trends I have been describing. For instance, he gave me new authority to manage the budgets of all the intelligence activities, whether they are resident in the Department of Defense or the Central Intelligence Agency or elsewhere. That has been very helpful in bringing this community together. He gave me authority to dovetail the analytic efforts of the intelligence community. That is a very important and fine distinction here because we do two things in intelligence we collect information and we analyze it. Now in analyzing it, one should be very careful to let divergent views come forward because when you are pulling all these diverse miniscule pieces together into a puzzle it is not always exactly clear what the picture is going to say. Diferent people interpret it differently. So, in strengthening my Central Intelligence Agency authorities here, the President has been very careful that we maintain an independent analytic capability in the Defense Department and in the State Department and here at the Central Intelligence Agency. The3work with and compete with each other so that we do have different views at all times. On the other hand, the Order also strengthened my authority to control these collection elements, how we go out and get the information. That is expensive, it is risky, we don't want more duplication than we can possibly minimize here. We want to see that the effort is well coordinated. Approved For Release 2001/91/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For please 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554,3002800270001-6 We don't w ant this hand looking to the right and this one looking to the left and no one looking down the middle. We don't want somebody collecting on part of the problem and no one else collecting on the other part. We want to be sure that everything is brought together so that the gaps in what one intelligence collection capability can leave you are filled by another one. So, I am now empowered to control all of the collection elements as to what they do day, by day. Finally, the President's new Order established a committee of the National Security Council to give me overall direction as to what our priorities are. It is not we in intelligence who should decide what is most important to know today and tomorrow it is for the people who are going to use it, consumers and that is what this new committee will do. Well, in these trends I have tried to describe to you with greater emphasis on economic and political intelligence, greater openness on the one hand and very high concern for what must be kept secret on the other and a more thorough oversight process, I think that trends in intelligence today are greater effectiveness for our country. I believe we have the best intelligence service in the world and there is no reason to think we cannot keep it that way. I assure you that everyone of us is dedicated to doing just that. Thank you. 9 Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Q&A's - Advertising Council - 13 June 1978 DCI: Criticism period from 1974 til now. Recently you may note the press New York Times. Got a little publicity out of that now we have 2 1/2 times many applicants in the last couple of months than in any spring period in the past. We recruit on 150 campuses. We think we are getting very good talent and I am impressed by the kind of young men and women I see joining our intelligence organizations. There is no question that 3 1/2 years of intense criticism of being exposed to the public for almost the first time, and then being exposed in critical way has had a definite impact on morale in our intelligence community. I think we are pulling out of it. I can only say the people here are so fine, that despite this discouragement to come from being criticized, from seeing distortions in the press to which we cannot respond frequently. That I have great faith that they have continued to do their work just as well, and there morale will be turned in time. Let me give you an example. I talked with one of our more senior people the other day. A couple of years ago he had a son at a liberal eastern college and his just couldn't admit that his father worked at the CIA. Now after you have been here 20 or 30 years that gets to you. It is tough on people when the public attitude is such that if you join as an honorable professional, and you have dedicated your life to, and I assure you that people in this profession, and I'm a newcomer to it, so I'm not boasting to you at all, they make as many sacrifices personally in the name of trying to serve their country as do any people in our government. Q. Inaudible. A. What are the qualifications for recruits? One of the big qualifications is experience at the top. We like to get people who have been out and done most anything for a couple of years. Why? Because those who join our clandestine side, who go overseas and are operators over there have big responsibilities on their shoulders Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For lease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO155WO2800270001-6 and we like somebody who has just a little extra touch of maturity. On our analytic side, the people who are open and above board and work here analyzing of information almost any skill. We have people coming in and sayir.g what should I study if I want to join your organization, I say study what you are good at because we've got it here at some degree. Q. Terrorism A. Do we hope world terrorism will be brought under control? One small hope for a grave hope that I see is that the intelligence agencies of the world are operating almost in this one area. We and all our western european allies are very close in our exchange of information on this. That is a big hope. I think it is basically going to take a stiffening of attitudes in all of our society. (Inaudible) Q. Inaudible A. The are very courious in that regard. We don't close them off until people overseas ---- can't hear clearly. To have that kind of capability in four or five years. I am worried aboutthe long term. It is a very serious one. The oversight process I beleive will work out to w. I think we are working out a process with the Congress whereby that oversight can be kept inbounds. I was up there all last week talking about Cubans in Zaire on a very highly classified basis there was one leak the first day and I stood up andcomplained the next 3 days and there hasn't been a leak since. I have found the Congress, cooperative, understanding we have problems from time to time, but I think things will work themselves out. Q. Inaudible A. Is the country aware of industrial espionage problems and can I give an example? I'm not sure the country is well aware of it. December 1976, 2 young men named Boyce and Lee worked at a contractor plant and all kinds of contractors had programs with us. They were arrested, taking documents out of the plant, taking them down to Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For. lease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO1554P02800270001-6 Mexico City and transferrring them to the Soviet Union there. They were caught in Mexico City and they were returned to the United States and they both since been convicted. Here in Washington, D. C., the date slips me, it was before I got here, I think it was the fall of 1976, former employee of the Agency threw a package over the fence around the Soviet embassy on 16th Street. What I read of it, the Soviets thought it might be a bomb, called for the fire department. GaVethe package back and put the man in jail. Detente in my opinion is an Fplus for our country. From an espionage point of view it is an Fminus. We are more open to their coming in here because inspite of detente, American's walking down the street in Moscow is much more obvious foriegner than Soviets walking down the street in our country. Q. Inaudible A. Response to the first one, we may not have taken into account all of the efforts of the Soviet Union to use alternative sources of energy. Keep in mind, our study talks about between now and 1985. What we tried to do was project what developments either in conservation or might take place before that time and we feel that the decline in production in the Soviet oil field is going to be greater than these other alternatives could be in that period. Now, over the longer haul, number one, they have got lots of oil in the groudn, number two, you can convert many more to coal in that period. Your question on the United States was similar. As far as the United States was concerned, what we were predicting was based on the conservation laws that were in effect, not taking into account any improvement when the Pre sident's energy bill Which could improve somewhat. Was trying to take into account nuclear power plant and other conversions to coal. Of course, the rate of consturction in nuclear power plants in our country and the world is down very preciptiously from what had been predicted just 3, 4, 5 years ago. very simply was that in this 7 year time frame there was not as much potential Approved For Release 2001/11/223 CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For- lease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554 02800270001-6 brought on in a practical way. Q. What form of redress released in your opinion is it adequate? A. That is a politically explosive question. We have a very antiquated espionage law by whith the two cases I mentioned were prosecuted. You have to be caught Washington Post. foreign power. So, there is not a good law that applies specifically to that kind of belief, real espionage. When you join the Central Intelligence Agency, you must sign a secrecy agreement when says you will let us check your manuscript for classified information Next week I go an testify in the first case we have taken to court. A former employee named Snepp who published a book without providing us an opportunity to review it and after expressly promising me he wouldn't. So, we asked the Attorney General and he brought it into court and the results of that case will in some sense determine how that segment of the government the case is upheld and that will strengthen the use of our secrecy agreement it will mean forcing different issues. Beyond that, it is very difficult to say what our problems here with the first amendement. To be able to get information. I personally am concentrating on a way within our government to close the gap. Every so often when you walk out of this building your brief case is inspected. people take classified information home to work on it, but that just is not acceptable, I'm concerned about security. Inaudible. Q. To what extent are you seeking cooperation from all sorts of business A. We are very much seeking your help and advice. We have a section of the Central Intelligence Agency called Domestic Collection Division which is totally open, listed in the phone book in 35 cities in our country. We maintain regular relationships with many American corproations. We protect them as sources, as much as we try to protect undercover sources overseas. At the same time we are perfectly aboveboard Approved For Release 2001411/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For A (ease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554ii+O02800270001-6 and there is not any clandestine type of relationship. We find it very valuable to us We have on several occasions been able by simply going to American industrialist and saying what is happening here. Find that company A was selling 25 to somebody in the Soviet Union, Company B was selling 25 more, company C was selling 75 and when you added it all up you found it was interesting and alarming. W_ We are very grateful for the cooperation we have from American business. FUTURE Q. Two or three things that are on your mind as you look at the/next 5 years. A. Wow. I think that the overall energy and economic issues of the world and how we How we make sure contest. How we handle the Japanese situation. We have the economic wherewithall, we have the technical knowledge In the short term many of them with unsettled conditions Q. Inaudible A. Next tape. Side 3 Approved For Release 200$/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved For4lease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554 002800270001-6 ADVERTISING COUNCIL (Auditorium) 13 June 1978 1745 Questions and Answers got A. a marvelous organization but it's/ a couple of characteristics which I thought were ripe for change. It's a organization, 31 years old this September. And I think the personnel management system is just beginning to settle down because we got a lot of marvelous people at the beginning. And they've been going through the system but after thirty years very they're beginning to leave and we haven't - because it's a/operational kind of group and you know getting the job done was the first thing, set up all the management, first of all management tools be here, assure people career So a great deal of my effort personnel , trying to build for 1988, because if we don't worry about that today, we won't be blessed by the quality of people we have now . I have, I but found it necessary to what I felt was a, too much of a familiar attitude here. This is a relatively small organization and it's a very tactic one and very family oriented one, but , you can't manage when you have these changes over collect the last 15 years, the way you/intelligence, many more technical, sophisticated systems, you can't manage the old plant the same way. And sometimes that's tough p~- the people who are no longer needed. You have to reduce Q. How can anyone at the CIA here counterpart ? A. Yes. The direct counterpart is called the KGB. They are quite a bit larger than we are. They put a tremendous amount of manpower into it. We will never attempt or want to match them in what we call human intelligence collection, spies that they send out in great numbers We suffer under the from an intelligence point of view. On the technical intelligence point of view, Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 Approved ForElease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80B01554 02800270001-6 because of our technical capabilities as a country, we are well ahead On the third aspect, first two being the ways of collecting intelligence, the third one referred to as analyzing and estimating it. I have a conviction that free society we can get much better free analysis than you can in a society. I think we'll always be ahead of them in interpreting the information than collection. You can afford this building to come to a conclusion that President Carter doesn't like. I don't know if you can do that in the KGB. Q. I think that the activity in the United States KGB ? A. Yes. Yes. Possible. That's of course one of those, one of the ways they go about it, trying to - we have uncovered that you are an American -country Q? that's correct. A. Unlikely to be arrested per se/ Or if he is, he's somebody who has come here with enough savoir faire to . There are some of those around, they get into the country somehow, get themselves established Q. ? A. Absolutely not. right now. We about more people or very small sums of money comparatively our budget is under very close scrutiny by the oversight committees and the people thoroughly tough as any department just is not published but . To some extent Congress looked at it but they don't all look at every detail of the agriculture budget either. Approved For Release 2001/11 22 : CIA-RDP80B01554R002800270001-6 Approved For4lease 2001/11/22: CIA-RDP80BO1554gp02800270001-6 A: (cont'd) Or the Justice Department, but the information is available to every member by going to the oversight committees. Q: Does it appear that the Embassy has been bugged (inaudible) A: Well this is very prevalent in Moscow. We have a great 25 years ago in our Embassy there. (inaudible) I'm sure this happens elsewhere but I think We have not yet been able to technically determine (inaudible) Q: (Inaudible) A: Yes. We've got a balance here and held down by the Congress as to how much contracting out we do. And we can see their point increase your staff, its a on the one hand, its just another way to/ misuse to hire people, to hire them for a specific task, for a limited and time In addition, we have a group of about 30-35 intelligence people in the wings and when we do a major study, we look at the list of them and say which are most appropriate to this, which complement our own intelligence and we ask 2, 3, 4 of them to come in for a few days at the beginning and a few days in the middle and at the end and work with us and make sure that we haven't overlooked some major point and they're very, very helpful. Some are academic, some are Q: Sir, (inaudible) A: Soviet Middle Eastern oil fields I think goes back to the Czar Soviet Union and well I yes emphasize that/I think they have a thirst for the warm waters and now the oil that goes back before oil was ZI and if you Approved For Release 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554R002800270001-6 3 Approved Fore ease 2001/11/22 : CIA-RDP80BO1554 p02800270001-6 take seriously our Agency forecast -For the Soviet Union, it means they have to be more and more interested in their Afghanistan is not a oil nation but its moving down in that Q: I have one question Admiral Turner (inaudible) A: Well, I brought Herb out here __ and he's survived for a year now and more than that (inaudible) those who know him know what a tremendous person very capable person he is and I the believe, all I can see he's won/ hearts and minds of all the people out here too Thank you for being with us. 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