PRESIDENT'S SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DISARMAMENT PROBLEMS SUMMARY MINUTES
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September 26, 1955
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MIN
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This document consists of $ pages
No, _o,f 50 copies, Series A.
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Presid.en:t " s Specials.. Committee on Disarmament Problems
SUMMARY MINUTES
Meeting of the President 2 s Special Committee
on Disarmament -Problems
Chart Room, Executive Office Building
September 26, 1955 - 10030 a.m.
ATTENDEES
Harold. E. Stassen9 Chairman.
Ge_~era. Herbert B. Loper
Colonel William B. Bailey
Mr. David Wainhouse
Mr, Charles C. Stelle
Mr, Ronald I. Spiers
Mr, Andrew Berding
Mr, Dowsley Clark
Mr, Frederick- W, Ford
Mr, Nathan Siegel
Mr, Herbert Miller
Dr, Paul Co Fine
Mro James E. Goodby
Mro Robert E. Matteson
Captain Donald W, Gladney
Mr, Joseph So Toner
To discuss (a) the revised position paper on. the U.S.
Geneva Proposals (DCS/3~ Rev. #3)a (b) the preliminary progress
reports of the Task Forcesy (c)
Mr. Bulganin s letter date
199 1955 to the Presidents, and (d) developments in the UN Sud ! -ommmttr
discussions during the week of September 19. o ttee
ACTION ASSIGNMNNTSo
1, To reproduce the Moch paper dated September 22
and circulate copies to the Committee members.
(Toner) NOTE.- See DPC Note No, L. dated
September 27.
State Dept., NSC, JCS reviews completed
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2. State to study (a) the Moch paper,, and (b) the
Nutting proposal to determine whether the U.S.
should agree to the tabling of those papers in
the UN Subcommittee,, with the stipulation that
the U.S. does not agree with but will study
these positions,
3. Assign Special Staff members to prepare working
papers on possible U.S. positions on (a) the
Moch paper and (b) the Nutting proposal, (Matteson)
1. Revised Position f1 per on US Geneva Proposals (DCS/39 Revision #31
Mr, Stassen said that since there were no additional
comments on the revised position paper on the U.S. Geneva pro-
posals (DCS/3 Revision #3) the paper would be approved subject
to later modification by the Departments should they desire to
initiate a reevaluation.
2. Preliminary Progress Reports on the Task Forces
Mr. Stassen said the task forces are working diligently
and in cooperation with the Department of Defense. The prelimi-
nary progress reports submitted by the Communications Task Force
and the Army Inspection Task Force are now being studied by the
Disarmament Staff.
3. Time Schedule for a Comprehensive Report to the President
Mr. Stassen said the November 1 time schedule for a
comprehensive report., as outlined in previous Committee meetings,,
will still be adhered to even though the President may not be
able to personally review the policy in early December as pre-
viously anticipated. He said., the overall paper,, after the thirty
day review period in the Departments., will reflect the most com-
prehensive study that any government has made on the total problem
of disarmament, It will not constitute a rigid U.S. position;
rather., the policy will be studied and reviewed on a continuing
basis.
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14o
Report on the UN Subcommittee Sessions
Mr. Stassen said the sessions of the UN Subcommittee
were in recess and would reconvene at 3 p,m. on Wednesday.,
September 28.
(a) Moch Proposal, Mr. Stassen said Mr. Moch pre-
sented a paper for consideration at a conference of the Western
delegates held on Friday, September 23. In general, the approach
outlined in his paper is a more or less predisarmament phase along
the lines of the Eisenhower proposal followed by stages of disarma-
ment. At the end of those stages, Mr. Moch suggests that a con-
ference of atomic scientists be called to study and report on
whether it is possible to eliminate nuclear weapons, Mr, Stassen
said. Mr. Moch is apparently thinking of getting off the hook of a
previous position on the elimination of nuclear weapons by a scien-
tific study at the end of the conventional reductions and is giving
some thought to limiting the expansion of nuclear weapons capability.
Mr. Moch stated that he has the approval of his Government to dis-
cuss this position with the Western Powers,
ACTION: To reproduce the Moch paper and
circulate copies to the Committee
members, (Toner)
Note: See DPC Note No, 4, dated
September 27, 1955,
Mr. Stassen said it might be desirable for the U.S. to
agree to the tabling of Mr, Moch's paper in the UN Subcommittee
even though we would not concur with it at this time. The U.S.
cannot agree to such a proposal until the total NSC review is com-
plete., Mr, Stassen said, but if it proves to be a better position
than the old Anglo-French proposals it would have the advantage
of indicating a movement away from former rigid positions and would
become a part of the movement of world understanding.
ACTION: State to study the Moch paper to
determine whether the U.S. should
consent to its being tabled in the
UN Subcommittee with the under-
standing that the U.S. does not
agree to but will study the
proposal. (Wainhouse)
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sLo
b. Scientific Committee. Mr. Stassen said the U.K.
has not yet reported on Mr. Nutting's suggestion for a Scientific
Committee.
Mr. Wainhouse said that the Nutting proposal for the
establishment of a Scientific Committee to study the problem of
elimination of nuclear weapons., in a way., indicates some change
in the British position.
Mr. Stassen said it might be desirable for the U.S.
to consent to the tabling of that proposal as well as the Moch
paper with the same understanding beforehand; i.e.., we will not
agree to it but we will study it. Both of these papers he said
would serve to move world policy in the direction the U.S. wants
it to move.
ACTION: State to study the Nutting
proposal for a Scientific
Committee to determine whether
the U.S. should consent to its
being tabled in the UN Sub-
committee, (Wainhouse)
ACTION: Assign members of the Special
Staff to prepare working papers
on possible U.S. positions on
(a) the Hoch proposal and (b)
the Nutting proposal, (Matteson)
5. Mr. Bulganin's letter to President Eisenhower dated
September.19, 19
Mr. Stassen said he noted with interest that in the
Bulganin letter to the President there was little reference to
the elimination of nuclear weapons., whereas in the Molotov UN
speech that point was stressed. He suggested the reason for the
difference of emphasis on this subject could reflect; (a) the
propaganda aspect of the speech versus the realism expressed in
the letter., or (b) a difference of opinion within the governing
circles of the USSR.
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Mr. Wainhouse said with respect to the possibility of a
difference of view with the Soviet Government, it had recently come
to his attention that perhaps Molotov was following a fairly hard
line. For examples, a Russian delegate to the UN informed a U.S.
delegate that the original text of the Molotov speech did not con-
tain any reference to the difficulty of elimination of armaments.
General Loper said possibly the difference in approach
between the letter and the speech indicates a moving away from
elimination, thus reenforcing prohibition on nuclear weapons as
the solution to the problem.
Mr. Berding suggested that since copies of the Bulganin
letter were sent to the British and the French, it would be proper
and perhaps desirable if they were to comment on the letter and
therein inject their views on American bases on foreign soil for
examples, or thoughts such as those advanced by Mr. Moch.
Mr. Stassen urged that both Defense and State give fur-
ther thought to possible modification of their views on the Technical
Panel proposal now that the Soviet reaction to the President's pro-
posal has been received. He asked that all Departments now consider
in the light of the Soviet response, the advisability of the U.S. or
another Western power putting that proposal forward or something along
the lines of the USIA proposal for an aerial test inspection in an
effort to keep things moving in the Subcommittee discussions.
General Loper raised a question as to the time schedule
on the analysis of the Bulganin letter. Whether the Defense position
on the Technical Panel Exchange will be modified in view of the
Soviet reply,,, he said would involve another study for them to under-
take. He said a meeting with State to discuss a reply to Mr. Bulganin's
letter is expected to take place this week. Mr. Wainhouse said it _
is hoped that a first draft of a comprehensive reply would be ready
sometime this week. It is planned, he said, to prepare an analysis
of the Bulganin letter, paragraph by paragraphs, as abasis for that
reply.
Mr. Stassen said the time schedule for a reply to the
Bulganin letter was a matter for State's consideration, but he did
not think a comprehensive substantive reply could be prepared until
after the total U.S. disarmament policy has been reviewed. For in-
stance, comments could not be made on force goal levels nor on
nuclear weapons other than to restate our position until the sub-
stantive policy is completed.
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In his discussion with Secretary Dulles and
Ambassador Lodge, he said., the preliminary thinking was to pre-
pare a sort of holding reply somewhat more than just an acknow-
ledgement of the letter--on the basis that no substantive reply
could be made until after the review of the total study. However,
he said, he had not talked with Secretary Dulles on this matter
since the Presidentts illness,
Mr. Stassen read a suggested draft reply which he had
submitted to the Secretary of State. His thinking, he said., was
to keep all channels open and not have negotiating entirely on
the Presidential level and., on the other hand., not to rebuff
them too sharply from using that channel at any time if they
should so desire.
Mr. Wainhouse said the Soviet response presents a pro-
blem on how we now proceed to further the President's proposal.
He said his preliminary view is that we should attempt in the
best way possible to put the Eisenhower proposal forward. He
would not like to see the work of two or three months lost by
virtue of the fact that we cannot get a Presidential response
to the Bulganin letter.
Mr. Stassen said it is still possible that if the
Russians find that this is the only way they can move on the
disarmament problem., they may still accept the President's pro-
posal; indications are that they are moderately respectful and
cautious in their approach. On the other hand., he said., they
may want to stall further progress or they may be attempting to
get the West to reduce armaments. He said he did not believe
world appeal for the Eisenhower proposal was minimized by the
Bulganin letter, He asked that USIA follow the trend of Soviet
propaganda with respect to the Russian's reply and also with
respect to the Molotov speech as it unfolds in the next several
days.
Mr, Stassen said the next two months can be well spent
if we consider letting the Moch and Nutting proposals come for-
ward and if we decide to submit a proposal along the lines of
the Berding proposal, Also., he pointed out., the Foreign Ministers
Meeting in October and following that the UN debate in December
will require study and detailed preparations.
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6. Subcommittee Report for the Foreign Ministers' Meeting
Mr, Wainhouse asked Mr. Stassen whether he had received
any guidance from Secretary Dulles with regard to an interim or
progress report from the Subcommittee for the October meeting of
the Foreign Ministers, Mr. Stassen said the Secretary indicated
that he wanted him to be present when the disarmament subject was
discussed, but he did not state his views on the Subcommittee re-
ports, He said it is his impression that each of the four powers
would report to their foreign minister rather than have a formal
Subcommittee report. An attempt might be made, he said, to get
an agreed report of the four representatives,, for submission to
their respective foreign ministers, setting forth the issues, which
would not prohibit individual supplementary comments as desired,
Mr. Stassen asked Mr. Wainhouse to discuss this matter further with
the Secretary of State. Also, he said, either Mr. Wainhouse or he
might ask the Secretary if this is a matter he would like to discuss
with the other foreign ministers.
7. Exchange of Nuclear Weapons Information
Mr. Stassen said his feeling in postponing an answer to
the Soviet question on the exchange of nuclear weapons information
was that by spelling out that we will not exchange numbers, charac-
teristics and design at this time would raise the presumption that
we will exchange all other information. He said that endeavoring
to be too inclusive in detail at this time might be bad psychologically
and also bad for negotiations, He said he had an extensive discussion
with Dr, von Neumann on this problem and he asked that AEC and Defense
review this point in an effort to include language in our reply that
will make it clear that we are not now agreeing to exchange any infor-
mation.; that everything has to be agreed to later in order to imple-
ment an effective inspection system, In other words, he said, our
answer to their question should merely restate the principle of the
President's Geneva statement and that specific information to be
exchanged-is a matter for later negotiation and agreement. The
answer might include illustrative items, both negative and positive.
8, Justice Report on Legal Aspects of Technical Exchange Panel
Mr. Stassen asked for a report on the legal analysis of
the problems involved in the Technical Exchange Panel proposal.
Mr. Ford said further progress is pending a reply from some of the
Departments to Mr. Rogers letter of September 16. Dr, Fine said
AEC has prepared an answer which is being circulated in the agency
for clearance. General Loper said the Defense reply is ready for
the Secretary's signature.
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Mr. Stassen asked Mr. Berding if USIA had an overall
report on the trend of public stories world-wide on the total
problem of armament and disarmament. Mr. Berding said thus far
there have only been spasmodic reports but he believed that a
full reading should be undertaken at this point.
The meeting adjourned at 11:40 a.m.
Helen Nelson
Committee Officer
Distribution.- Committee Members
List II
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This document consists of__pages
No._,_of :S- Copies, Series A.
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President's Special. Committee on Disarmament Problems
Meeting of the Presidentts Special Committee
on Disarmament Problems
Chart Room, Executive Office Building
September 19, 1955 -- 10:30 a.m.
3
Harold E. Stassen, Chairman
General Herbert B. Loper
Mr. Charles C. Stelle
Mr. Ronald 0. Spiers
Mr. Andrew Berding
Mr. John Z. Williams
Mr. Frederick W. Ford
Mr. Nathan Siegel
Mr. Richard M. Bissell, Jr.
Dr. Paul C, Fine
Mr. James E. Goodby
Mr. Robert Matteson
Colonel Raymond B. Firehock
Mr-. Joseph S. Toner
To discuss (a) progress report on the analysis of legal
problems relating to the Technical Panel Exchange, and (b) Mr. Berding's
proposal for an aerial test inspection within the framework of the -
President's Geneva proposal.
1. To further review the proposal for aerial inspection
s,tfumitted by Mr. Berding after Mr. Molotov's opening speech at the UNGA
2. To review the outline of the - Pre sident t s plan as tabled
in the Subcommittee to determine if an addendum is required.
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1. Progress report on he analysis of legal problems relating to
the Technical Panel Exchange.
Mr. Ford reported that a meeting of legal representatives
from State, Defense., AEC and Mr. Turlington from Mr. Stassents staff
was held in the Department of Justice on September lL, to study the
various legal problems posed by the Technical Panel Exchange proposalo
He said William P. Rogers., the Acting Attorney General, wrote to the
heads of the agencies represented at the meeting on September 16, 1955
requesting that they furnish the Attorney General with an opinion from
their legal staff on the problems that might arise in their respective
agencies in connection with such a proposal. A letter.was also sent
to the Secretary of the Treasury since Coast Guard facilities would
also be involved in the inspection of ports. At the meeting, he said,
it was urged that the highest priority be attached to this study.
Mr. Stassen, replying to Dr. Finets question, said there are
really three interrelated sets of legal questions involved in the
total plan; those related to (a) the President's proposal for an ex-
change of blueprints and aerial verification, (b) the Technical. Panel
Exchange,, and (c) the final inspection system. The questions related
to the Presidentts blueprint proposal and those connected with the
permament inspection system would come under a treaty arrangement;
therefore, the study now is concentrated on the extent to which the
Technical. Panel Exchange proposal could be implemented under an Execu-
tive Agreement. Mr. Ford said there may be some problems involved ever
under a treaty arrangement, For example, revealing information and
trade secrets to a foreign government which the U.S. Government obtains
in confidence from a private firm may pose a problem. Mr. Stassen said
when the current study is completed the next step may be to determine
the limits of a treaty in this field,
2. Report on Mr. Stassen's discussion with the President.
Mr. Stassen said he reviewed for the President the antici-
pated time schedule of the work of the task forces; the personnel on
the task groups; and the endeavor to prepare a comprehensive report
for him on or about December 7, The President., he said., was satisfied
with the time schedule and he was extremely pleased with the caliber
of the personnel working on the task forces; at the same time the President
urged that all phases of the work continue to be carried forward in the
departments and agencies.
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for roposal an aerial test inspection within the framework of
the President's Geneva Proposal.
Mr. Berding said he had nothing to add to the written
proposal he had submitted (circulated on September !4) for an
aerial test inspection within the framework of the President's
Geneva proposal, He noted that recent conversations with. USSR
delegates to the U.N. Subcommittee indicate that the Soviets have
regarded the President's reference to an exchange of blueprints
and aerial reconnaissance as a propaganda move. It may be, he said...
that they till entertain that view to some extent and this proposal
may help to overcome that idea. .Also, the proposal would serve to
demonstrate to the Soviets just what aerial reconnaissance will
reveal.
Mr. Stelle said the Department of State has not prepared
a final position on this paper. Discussions thus far., he said,,
indicate a divided opinion within the Department. Some see con-
siderable propaganda advantages in such a proposal and view it also
as a means of moving forward; others are concerned about possible
competition between this plan and the President's proposal.
General Loper said the Department of Defense has no firmm,
position to offer at this time. He pointed out that past Defense
positions indicate that they do not look with favor upon any kind
of implementation prior to acceptance of the principles of the
President's proposal. The study currently under way by Defense,
he said, is directed first toward the implementation of the President's
proposal from the standpoint of exchange of blueprints and the sub-
sequent aerial reconnaissance; second, toward. something along the
lines of this proposal as a trial. run,- and third, if the trial run.
proves to be effective and agreeable, the detailed arrangements for
the total plan.
Dr. Fine asked whether the blueprints of a major atomic
energy installation would merely outline the exterior of the buildings
or whether they would include such details as processes. Mr. Stassen
said the concept of the exchange of blueprints has always been in
relation to an exterior examination, which at a certain point could
involve checking the input and output of the plant. He pointed out
that at no time would we contemplate an exchange of technical infor-
mation such as methods of weapons design. In the first stage the
concept is to determine what -kind of information can be reciprocally
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exchanged to prevent the possibility of surprise attack. He
said that information could be negative or affirmative., but
in his view no detailed answers would be provided which would
give the Russians an excuse to reject the President's proposal.
Mr. Stelle pointed out that., since the U.S. has taken
the position that the major problem is the impossibility of account-
ing for nuclear material, to table an outline of the proposal for
a Technical Panel Exchange confined to external examination of one
nuclear plant would present a difficult political problem.
General Loper said., as a trial run the JCS had in mind
something specifically directed to surprise attack and from that
point of view the objectives outlined in Mr. Berding's proposal
appear to be broader than necessary. If the idea for a trial run
were accepted, he said, he could see no point in including a major
atomic energy center, Mr. Stassen agreed., and said that the objec-
tive of a trial run could be limited to include only one port and
one air field.
With respect to the timing of such a proposal., Mr. Stelle
said depending upon the circumstances it might be desirable to pre-
sent it before the Russians indicate what their reaction to the
President's proposal will be since it may serve as a means of
bringing their attention back to that position,
Mr. Stassen said that was a good point and he noted that
Soviet reaction: to the Eisenhower proposal might be presented:
(a) in Molotov's speech at the opening of the U.N., (b) at the
Geneva Foreign-Ministers' Meeting on October 27., or (c) during the
UN debate on December lover the UN resolution to accept the
President's proposal..
Mr. Stassen said this proposal would be kept under review
and considered further after Molotov's U.N. speech,
lt. Proposed Scientific Cow.
Mr. Stassen said the British Government has not yet replied
to Mr. Nutting's suggestion for the establishment of the scientific
committee discussed f t e mee 'fig oia ueptembL--r-12.
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m5-
Dr. Fine said Dr. von Neumann feels that the probability
of such a group of scientists coming up with a solution for detection
methods or for a means of accounting for past production of fission-
able materials is so slim that the establishment of a scientific com-
mittee to study these problems would only raise false hopes.
Mr. Stassen explained that the basic concept of the suggestion
is to convince the world that we are leaving no stone unturned in
the search for a solution. The U.K. now agrees with us that you cannot
eliminate nuclear weapons and they are trying to find a way to present
that position to their public and to their parliament. In other words,
until the scientists report back, we will proceed on the basis that
nuclear weapons cannot be eliminated and then the President's proposal
will be brought back into focus. In addition, this group of scientists
from the five nations represented in the Subcommittee could, from time
to time, invite the comments of scientists from other nations such as
India and Egypt, thus including and encouraging other countries to join
in the effort to find an answer to this problem.
Mr. Stelle said State's view with respect to internal exami-
nation of a nuclear installation is also based somewhat on the public
relations aspect. For instance, the internal examination of a research
reactor would reveal the difficulties involved and would assist in con-
vincing the public at large of the scientific basis of that policy.
Replying to Mr. Berding's inquiry about the scientific study
currently under way, Mr. Stassen said that is the Ernest Lawrence task
group. With respect to the task forces, as a whole, Mr. Stassen said
the tentative thinking is not to publicize their studies until such
time as the report to the President is made and acted upon and the
President or the Secretary of State ennunciate the various aspects of
our policy.
5. Proposed briefing on aerial photographic capabilities,
Mr. Stassen said Deputy Secretary of Defense Robertson in a
letter dated September 16 approved the suggestion in his letter of
September 13 for a briefing and short brochure on the capabilities of
aerial photography for dissemination among the British, French and
Canadian disarmament delegations, and that later, if appropriate, such
a presentation might be circulated to the USSR. Mr. Robertson has
requested the Secretary of the Air Force to appoint a project officer
to prepare this brochure and presentation, within security limits.
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=ba
(Copies of Mr. Stassen's letter and Mr, Robertsonts repay were
circulated by EXSEC to-Committee members on September 19).
Mr. Stassen said the purpose of these briefings is two-fold,
One, to educate the public domestically as well as abroad as to the
significance of aerial reconnaissance--,within classification limits;
and second to maintain the initiative from the public relations aspect
on the part of the U.S. and the Eisenhower proposal,
Mr. Stassen noted that comments from State approving the
dissemination of information to the U.K., France and Canada are con-
tained in Cable 168 (dated September l5), In view of State's feeling
that the Soviets should not be included in the original briefing because
others may raise questions in their presence which might indicate a
division of opinion on efficacy of aerial reconnaissance., Mr. Stassen
said we could make it clear in the briefing that any questions they
wished to raise must be submitted in writing at a later time for our
further consideration. He asked that the Departments continue to
review the possibility of including the Soviets on the basis of no
questions being asked or answered at the briefing session,
? 6. Agenda items.
Mr. Stassen asked if there were any subjects the Committee
would like to submit for future discussion. He noted that the revision
of the position papers is under way., and Colonel Firehock said the
revised papers will be ready early in the week of September 26,
Mr. Stelle said it might be well to review Mr. Hoover's
suggestion of putting forward some expansion and clarification of the
outline of the President's plan which has been tabled in the Subcommittee.
Mr, Stassen said that outline plan would be further considered to determine
whether an addendum is required,
(Mr. Stassen left the meeting at 11015 a,m, and turned the
meeting over to Mr. Matteson,)
Mr, Matteson asked if there were any further suggestions for
subjects to be discussed,., or any new matters to 'be brought up.
Mr. Stelle asked if a list of the task forces and their
operations could be made available to the Departments. It would be
useful, he said, to know generally what developments have occurred in
their studies, Mr. Matteson said he had sent a note to each of the
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liaison officers on Mr. Stassen's Special Staff to prepare a progress
report on each of the task forces by the end of this week. He said
some of the task forces have submitted progress reports but others
have indicated that their studies will take longer than the present
time schedule indicates.
Mr. Bissell asked if there was any written material available
with respect to the general terms of reference of the task forces.
He said such information would be extremely helpful in conducting
briefing sessions for the task groups.
Mr. Matteson said the Department of Defense had received that
information. In general., their studies are related to the feasibility
of inspection and beyond that at their own discretion to the total out-
line of the plan.
(NOTE: Terms of reference for each task force and other
personnel data are being prepared in EXSEC for circulation to the
Committee members.)
The meeting adjourned at 11:25 a.m.
Helen E. Nelson
Committee Officer
Distribution: Committee Members
Ambassador Lodge
List II
EXSEC/9-20.55
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President's Special Committee on Disarmament Problems
Meeting of the President's Special Committee
on Disarmament Problems
Chart Room,, Executive Office Building
September 12d 1955 m 10030 a.m.
Harold E. Stassen, Chairman
General Herbert B. Loper
Colonel William B. Bailey
Mr. David Wainhouse
Mr. Charles C. Stelle
Mr. Ronald 0. Spiers
Mr. Andrew Berding
Mr. John Z. Williams
Mr. Frederick W. Ford
Mr. Nathan Siegel
Mr. Richard M. Bissell, Jr.
Dr. John von Neumann
Dr. Paul C. Fine
Mr. James E._Goodby
Mr. Robert Matteson
Mr. Joseph S. Toner
Mr. Edmund Gullion
Mr. John Lippmann
1. To discusso (a) JCS comments on the Technical
Exchange Panel; (b) Department of State comments on U. S.
Geneva Proposal, and (c) Dr. von Neumannts comments dated
September 7, 1955. _
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1. To amend the position papers in accordance with the
comments of: (a) the JCS (DCS/5B)9 (b) Dr. von Neumann (letter
dated September 7, 1955), and (c) the Department of State (DCS/3
Revision #2A).
2. That the Committee would meet regularly each Monday
at 10030 a.m.
1. Report on the UN Subcommittee Sessions
Mr. Stassen said the Western delegations are presently
awaiting comments from the Soviet Union on the significant parts
of the Presidents proposal and on other questions relating to
the inadequacies-of previous USSR positions on inspection. In
view of the relatively short period of time the meeting has been
underway, he said,, the situation could not be described as
"deadlocked" but neither has any significant progress been made.
There is further evidence that the Soviet Union is analyzing the
basic problem just as we are.
ACTION: To reproduce and circulate to
Committee members the September 7
statement by the Russian delegate,,
Mr. Sobolev, to the UN Subcommittee.
(Toner - see memorandum dated
9/12/55)
2. JCS Comments on the Technical Exchange Panel Proposal DCS 5B
Mr. Stassen asked for comments around the table on the
JCS comments on the Technical Exchange Panel proposal.
Mr. Wainhouse said the State Department agrees with the
JCS position that a panel should be established which would be
composed of technically and scientifically qualified individuals
from each of the countries represented in the Subcommittee; that
this group would study the methods of inspection and report back
to the Subcommittee at an agreed time. In view of its terms of
reference this group might be called a Study Group on Inspection
and Reporting Techniques.
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Mr, Wainhouse said State will be in a better position
to comment on the detailed comments of the Joint Chiefs (DCS/SB)
after there has been a Soviet reaction to the President?s Geneva
proposal,
Generally speaking., he said., the Department of State
agrees with Defense on reducing the number of installations from
two to one in each category which might be visited, State does
not share the Defense view that the atomic installation should
be examined only externally; rather, it is believed that little
would be gained by such an examination,
Mr. Wainhouse said it would be helpful to the Department
of State if Defense and AEC would provide them with a more detailed
exposition of their concept of external inspection of atomic
installations. Dr, von Neumann said a great deal can be exposed
by external operations; for example., if the amount of raw material
going into a reactor is known much can be told of the interior
activities, Mr. Stassen noted-that this would also tie in with
Dr. Lawrence's work,
Mr. Stassen replied that it is not known when the
Russians will respond to the Eisenhower Proposal., but when they
dog the U.S. position on how to proceed after that should be as
thoroughly prepared as possible. He urged that the studies on
this. problem continue to go forward in the Departments.
Dr, von Neumann said he had no comments other than those
contained in his letter to Mr. Stassen dated September 7,
Mr, Bissell said in general he agreed with the detailed
comments of Defense but he preferred to reserve opinion on the
point raised by Mr. Wainhouse respecting external examination or
a more comprehensive plan in connection with atomic energy pro-
duction facilities. Dr, von Neumann said this is a twofold
problem and the question involves the amount of information we
extract from the USSR by this means as against the information
we would be furnishing them. It is the feeling in AEC., he said.,
that the way it is now defined., the time allowed is very short;
in some cases., such as budget,, it is a matter of the extent that
it adds to the information furnished and from that point of view
the external examination is a good first step? It should be
judged more from the standpoint of negotiation tactics,
Mr. Bissell said he may wish to submit written comments
on this point before the next meeting of the Committee,
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4
Mr. Berding said he had no comments on the detailed
revision of the JCS on this proposal. As a matter for possible
consideration., he suggested that the test inspection idea might
be transferred to the President's aerial reconnaissance proposal.
This would have certain advantages such as keeping the President's
proposal alive and supplying tremendous publicity to it.
Mr. Stassen said that when the panel tested objects of
control,., they were also going to test methods which would include
aerial inspection. The first impact of the Eisenhower proposal
concentrated on aerial photography and the exchange of blueprints-
the second impact was to put in the JCS plan on ground posts.
Replying to Mr. Stassen's question, Mr. Berding said he meant that
the aerial proposal would include some testing, and in the begin-
ning it would be limited to aerial reconnaissance. Mr. Stassen
said that is sort of an offshoot of the matter we are presently
concerned with,, and referred to a letter on this subject submitted
by the Department of Justice on September 9 (DCS/5C).
Mr. Ford said the first indication was that the legal
problems involved were not too difficult but upon further study
it was found there were not sufficient fact known to prepare a
definitive statement. He said if the attorneys at AEC, State and
Defense could meet with the legal persons concerned in Justice to
discuss the problems involved it would greatly facilitate the
Department of Justice in preparing a comprehensive legal opinion.
Mr. Stassen said he believed the best way to proceed
would be to have the lawyers from AEC, Defense and State get to-
gether with Mr. Ford's group either by departmental or multi-
departmental informal conferences and then to get a written state-
ment which would outline the problem and state what information
is required from the individual Departments. Through such informal
conferences an outline can be prepared of what can be done and what
cannot be done under Executive agreement. He said we may have to
approach this matter by 'treaty or we may decide to do as much as
is possible under Executive agreement and no more. The lawyers
should define the problem and outline the alternatives as well.
ACTION.- To follow through with the Department
of Justice on setting up meetings during
the week of September 12 with AEC., State
and Defense re an analysis of the legal
problems stemming from the Technical
Exchange Panel proposal. (Matteson)
Note: This meeting was held on 9/l4.
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Mr. Stassen said the revisions on the Technical
Exchange Panel Proposal submitted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff
would be accepted. He emphasized that this proposal could not
be used in any way as an ultimatum requiring the USSR to accept
the Presidents proposal before we proceed with this kind of
study. He said this proposal would not be advanced until we
get the Soviet reaction to the President's proposal. Also,
on State's position, he said he believed it would be a mistake
to advance a proposal for a study group that in effect would
meet in the same city as the Subcommittee and discuss the same
matters as the Subcommittee. He said his feeling now and it
will have to be evaluated further is to concentrate entirely
on the President's proposal and think in terms of either working
this out with the Eden proposal or working it out as suggested
by Mr. Berding as a third stage.
Replying to Mre Wainhouse's question, Mr. Stassen said
if the Soviet Union should accept the President's proposal the
exchange concept might then be advanced and it would mean that
the-other countries could participate in-it which would be an
advantage since'the Eisenhower proposal refers only to the US
and USSR.
3. Comments b Dr. von Neumann dated September 7, 1955
Replying to Dr. von Neumann's question, Mr. Stassen
said it is contemplated that inspection would be carried on
simultaneously in the various countries rather than one at a
time in a specified order. It is believed that the simultaneous
approach would be advantageous from the psychological as well as
the negotiating standpoint.
General. Loper said some of the questions raised by
Dr. von Neumann would require further detailed study by the
Department of Defense.
Referring to Dr. von Neumann's comment on paragraph
E-4 on page 6 of the position paper on-the USSR Geneva Proposal
(DCS/2, Revision #2) Mr. Wainhouse recommended the following
wording for the quoted passage, "the US position on this must
await the determination on whether the development of an adequate
inspection system is possible." Mr. Stassen said it is only
possible to determine whether it is possible at this time, and
times keep changing. Mr. Wainhouse said State would agree to
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the phrase,, "at this time," Mr. Stassen said he believed
there was general agreement on State's implication,
Mr. Stassen said the position papers should be
amended in accordance with Dr, von Neumann's comments,, as
modified by State.
1., State comments on the U.S. Geneva Proposal (DCS/3, Revision #2)
a. Para ra h 1 (a). There was general agreement on
paragraph 1 a revised by the Department of State.
b. Paragraph 1 (h),. General Loper said the modifications
submitted by State are acceptable to Defense' particularly with
reference to paragraph 1 (h). Mr. Stassen said this raises the
point of waiting for the later date rather than dissipate the
move at the present time,, and that further study would be given
to that point.
Mr. Berding suggested that the attention on the
President's proposal would be heightened if the proposal were
made to institute a test inspection of aerial reconnaissance
on a limited basis now. Mr. Stassen said that is an interesting
thought to segregate the aerial reconnaissance testing and
visiting of a sample object from the other categories to be
tested and visited. He noted that though it would increase attention
on the Eisenhower proposal,, it could in effect,, from a public opinion
standpoint,, let the Soviet off the hook if they agreed to permit
a small area to be photographed. It is a matter of evaluating the
complex world psychology and pressure aspects.
Mr. Wainhouse said his initial reaction to Mr. Berdingvs
suggestion is that actually it means carving the sector on aerial
photography out of the President's proposal--the other sector
being the exchange of bluepr3nts~,band reducing. our attention to
one small sector might supply the coup de grace to the President's
proposal. Mr. Stassen said it would not be a matter of reducing;
rather Mr. Berding's suggestion would serve as a spearhead of the
implementation of the plan.
Mr, Wainhouse pointed out that the Russians conceivably
might come forth with a reduced aerial inspection area; for example,
a hundred square miles of antic waste,, to see how it works out.
Mr. Berding said it would mean selecting comparable points such as
New York and Leningrad but it would be on a reduced basis.
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Mr. Stassen asked Mr. Wainhouse for an appraisal of
what the Soviet reaction will 'be to the Presidents proposal.
Mr. Wainhouse said it is expected that they will sub-
mit a conteroffer., which will revolve primarily on their May 10
position and they may include aerial reconnaissance over the
ports., airdromes and so on thr-t are contained in their proposal.
It is possible that we will not get a Soviet response before
October 27 since they may prefer to use the Geneva forum rather
than the Subcommittee meeting for their reply.
Dr. von Neumann pointed out that if the aerial recon-
naissance aspect is separated from the exchange of blueprints
in the President's proposal., there is danger giving away certain
intelligence informatior_n9 whereas if a complete set of blueprints
were available the operation would be on the basis of information
furnished by the other nation. Mr. Stassen said that problem,
could be met by requiring each side to offer the site they will
permit to be photographed and on which they will submit blueprints
rather than have or tell the other what they want to see. It
might mean that each would give a blueprint of say Leningrad or
Norfolk for example., to start with and then have the aerial photo-
graphy and the ensuing studies of that. He said Mr. Berdinggs
suggestion would be given further consideration.
c. Paragraph. 2 (b)o Mr. Stassen said he fully concurred in
the revised language of this paragraph., particularly since a Soviet
counterattack may be that the PresidentIIs proposal is simply a
stalling device and that the U.S. does not favor a reduction of
armaments under any circumstances. He said a certain amount of
world opinion shows a trend along that line and articles have
been written on the basis of Secretary QuarlesQ speech to advance
that argument. He said his initial reaction to Secretary QuarlesII
speech was that it contained no specific ;inaccuracies but it
ommitted what should be aiimportant feature of any address by
government officials and that is to emphasize the desire of the
United States and the President for peace and a sound agreement.
Mr. Stassen said not only have the British and French asked whether
that speech represented U.S. poky but the Russians have asked
for an interpretation of it.
He said he had sent a preliminary informal memorandum
to the State Department and to the USIA setting forth a possible
public relations outline. Mr. Wainhouse said State would have a
reply to that memorandum within a day or two.
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Mr. Ford suggested that the word "might" in line 2
of paragraph 2 (b) be changed to "should". Mr. Stassen said
it could read., "",,,and it is U.S. policy that this would be
followed ? ."" or some such wording which could be chosen from
the Presidents awn language.
Mr. Stassen asked whether there were any further
questions on the comments submitted by the State Department
or whether there were any new matters to be discussed.
5, UN Exhibit to illustrate the Presidents proposal.
Mr. Berding said a special committee has been established
to work on an exhibit to illustrate the PresidentQs idea of an
inspection system., particularly with respect to the aerial inspection.
The committee has concluded that such an exhibit during the General
Assembly sessions is both possible and desirable and is thinking
in terms of installing the exhibit in the United Nations lobby or.,
if that is not desirable., in the Waldorf Astoria Hotel, Mr. Berding
said it might be premature at this time to approach the Secretary General
of the United Nations on this matter. Mr. Wainhouse pointed out
that placing such an exhibit in the United Nations building could
be construed as forcing -the issue. It would be quite within reason9
he said9 to ask the Secretary General to permit an exhibit of this
kind if the Russians give an indication of an affirmative response
to the Presidents proposal., 'but if their reply is negative or if
it is not submitted during the course of the General Assembly, he
could see no objection to having the exhibit in the Waldrof Astoria,
Mr. Stassen said he believed such an exhibit would have
merit and that the preparation of it should go forward. He asked
that Mr. Berding9 with the assistance of the Air Force., proceed on
the preparation of an exhibit.
6. Aerial Reconnaissance,
Mr. Stassen asked General Loper if it would be possible
to work out some briefing sessions within limitations for the
British., French and Canadians on the subject of aerial reconnaissance.
Colonel Bailey said Colonel Firehock had given him a list of questions
submitted by the British. but it was for informational purposes rather
than action responsibility. Mr. Stassen said he would submit that
list of questions to the Secretary of Defense and ask for the JCS
comments on it.
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General Loper said that in addition to the questions
submitted on the list there would be a great many other questions
on the details of the President9s proposal and it, therefore would
be well to indicate to the Joint Chiefs what priority this should
have in connection with their study of the overall job of the
technical aspects of a comprehensive limitation of armaments plan.
Mr. Stassen said he believed the British, French and Canadians
would want this information by the middle of November but the
sooner the better. Some of the questions might 'be answered promptly
he said, and answers to others could be postponed on the basis that
they require further study.
7. Scientific Committee.
Mr. Stassen said Mr. Nutting, in an effort to get a public
declaration of the impossibility to inspect and control the complete
elimination of nuclear weapons, suggested-subject to approval by his
Government-that a scientific committee composed of scientists from
the five nations in the Subcommittee be established for the purpose
of furnishing a scientific basis to government leaders of the U.K.,
Canada and. France and other western powers to present this position
to their public and to their parliaments. Mr. Wainhouse said there
is a cable dated September 9, 1955, No. 251 from US-UN New York to
the Secretary of State relating to this suggestion of a Committee of
Scientists. (The Department of State sent copies of this cable to the
Departments and Agencies concerned on September 12, 1955).
Mr. Stassen said it is important to convince the public
that our position that we cannot eliminate nuclear weapons is based
on a scientific analysis. If there is a favorable response from
London this week, he said, this matter could be further reviewed
at the next Committee meeting.
It was agreed that the Committee would meet regularly each
Monday at 1Ox3O a.m.
The meeting adjourned at 12xO5 p.m.
Helen E. Nelson
Committee Officer
Distribution-. Committee Members
Ambassador Lodge
List II
EXSEC/9-15-55
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This document consists of pages
No..a9 _ of f Copies, Series
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President's Special Committee on Disarmament Problems
Meeting of the President's Special Committee
on Disarmament Problems
Chart Room, Executive Office Building
September 1, 1955 -- 3030 p.m.
Harold E. Stassen, Chairman
Colonel William B. Bailey
Mr. David Wainhouse
Mr. Howard Meyers
Mr. Charles C. Steile
Mr. Andrew Berding
Mr. Abbott Washburn
Mr. John Z. Williams
Mr. Frederick W. Ford
Mr. Benjamin. Freidson
Mr. Richard M. Bissell
Dr, John von Neumann
Dr. Paul C. Fine
Mr. James E. Goodby
Colonel Raymond B. Firehock
Mr. Joseph S. Toner
1. To discuss comments of the Department of Defense on:
(a) the Technical Exchange Panel, (b) the USSR Geneva Proposal, and
(c) the U.S. Geneva Proposal.
2. To discuss the legal aspects of the Technical Exchange
3, To discuss the revised draft position paper on Previous
United States. Positions.
T,S 4243
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ATTACHMENT A
(Changes to DCS/2, Revision 1, recommended by the Department of Defense).
Page 2, Par, 2, Line 3: Insert the words, "among others" after
the word, "that", Reason: It must be emphasized that the United
States cannot accept the provisions of the Soviet proposal on
inspection as restrictive.
Page , Par, 2, Line 12: Delete word, "an" and change word, "example"
to the plural.
Page 2, Par, 2, Line 13: Delete the word, "minimum" and the phrase
tff o be included", Reason: It must not be inferred-that the United
States would regard the listing which follows as an actual statement
of our minimum position.
Page 2, Par. 2(b), Line 14: Delete the word, "limited" and substi-
tue Tnited". Capitalize the word., ""states"o
Page 2, Par, 2(c): Add to the sentence, "and other appropriate
rights and privileges", Reason: To provide for other than diplo-
matic privileges and immunities,
Fage , Line 2: Add the phrase, "on a continuing basis" after the
word, "area"o
Page 3: Suggest the addition of the following subparagraph before
the existing subparagraph (e). The addition then would become (e)
and the existing (e) would be renumbered (f). Language as follows:
"(e) The Control Organ would have the power to decide that a
violation of the agreement had occurred. The administrative pro-
cedure by which such a decision would be made must be provided for
in the agreement, as well as a delineation of the action to be taken
by the Control Organ in the event that such a decision were made,"
Reason: The question of how the inspecting mechanism would arrive
at the conclusion that a violation had occurred is an extremely
important one. Witness recent experience in Korea. It is felt
that a reference to this point is desirable in this paper,
Page 3s Subpar. (!t): Add to the sentence the words, "for mili-
tary purposes". Reason: To emphasize the military aspects of
the inspection.
Page 3, Subpar, (5): Add the following sentence to this sub-
paragraph: "The term, "replacement? to be fully defined in the
? disarmament agreement,"
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Pie 49 Par, D62,: Delete the last sentence of this paragraph and
substitute 'the following: "The position of the United States on the
question of force levels is such that the setting of arbitrary
ceilings for nations large or small is unrealistic at the present
times The United States position on this portion of the July 21
Soviet proposal should be the same as that contained in Par, E.3,
on Page 5o$'
Page 5, Par, E,3: It is suggested that this paragraph read as
011` aws:
"3. Force Levels:
The United States recognizes that numerical limitations on
armed forces will constitute one of the components of any compre-
hensive system for the reduction and control of armaments and armed
forces, However, the United States considers that the figures for
numerical ceilings on armed forces introduced in the most recent
Soviet proposals are., like those of the United States and other
nations, suggested for the purposes of illustration and do not bear
an actual relationship to strategic considerations or to the specific
security requirements of any state. The United States intends to
regard these proposals as a line of departure in developing and
reaching an understanding on realistic force levels in the context
of whatever may be achieved on the other substantive features of an
arms limitation arrangement, In discussions toward this end a
number of factors '_icluding demographic., geographic, political
and economic must be taken into account," (Note: This language
is in consonance with Pars, 3 and 4 of Joint Chiefs of Staff
memorandum of August 19, 1955.)
Page 10, last paragraph, 2nd line: Delete the words,, "the
greatest" and substitute the word., "adequate",
Page 109 last paragraph, ?nth line: Delete the phrases "the
greatest amount of procurable" and substitute the words "ac
m
ceptablO , Reason: The "greatest" is subject to interpretation
and in any case may not be what the United States would consider
a sufficient reduction in risk to satisfy its national security
requirements. By the same token what others may consider to be
"the greatest amount procurable" may prove to the United States
inadequate,,
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(Changes to DCS/3s Revision 1,9 recce mended by the Department of Defense).
Page 19 2nd Paro of ":Conclusions" =Add the word. "subsequently"
ter the word., "expanded". Reasono To bring this paragraph in
consonance with Paragraph III(a).
Page 2, Paragraph II. Assume words "purpose" should read., "proposal".
ubparagraph II(a): Add the words, and ground" between the words
"aerial" and "inspection" in the last line on the page. Reason: To
bring in the thought contained in subparagraph (g) below.
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1, To revise, in accordance with Defense comments,
and circulate draft position papers on the USSR Geneva Proposal
(See DCS/2 Revision #2), and the U.S. Geneva Proposal (See DCS/3
Revision '#2),
29 To circulate the preliminary and detailed comments
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on the Technical Exchange Panel (See
DCS/5A and DCS/5B),
3, To circulate comments on Previous United States
Positions (See DCS/6A),
4, To circulate comments by the Department of Justice
on the legal aspects of the Technical Exchange Panel,
5. To circulate draft position paper on the Technical
Exchange Panel, as revised by a member of Mr. Stassents Special
Staff, _
6, The Department of State to draft a suggested
revision of Paragraph I, subparagraph (a) of the draft position
paper on U.S. Geneva Proposals (DCS/39 Revision 1),
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1, Report on the Subcommittee Sessions
Mr. Stassen reported that the outline plan on the
implementation of the Presidentis Geneva proposal has been
tabled along the lines of the JCS memorandum., and that the
sessions were progressing much as was anticipated. Among
the questions asked by the Soviet delegate Mr. Sobolev,
which are under advisement by the U.S. delegation, are: (a)
whether the U.S. agrees that the objective continues to be
the abolition of nuclear weapons, and (b) whether the U. S.
still agrees to the.force goals previously submitted. Mr. Stassen
said Mr. Sobolev told him that the Soviet still holds to its
May 10 language with respect to the unaccountability of nuclear
materials and the possibility of clandestine production.
Mr. Stassen said he believed the U.S. would have to
place its old positions in a reserved and inactive status very
soon. The Canadians have expressed the hope that progress on
the previous positions would not be lost and it is expected
that there will be active discussion of that matter before long.
He said there is general agreement to take the outline
plan of the Presidents proposal under advisement, and a Soviet
response is anticipated during the week of September 5.
2. JCS Preliminary Comments on a Technical Exchange Panel
Referring to the September 1 memorandum of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff on a Technical Exchange Panel (circulated at the meeting),
Mr. Stassen said we plan to first present the PresidentIs proposal
and the resolution that it be referred to the General Assembly.
We had not, however, anticipated that "prior acceptance" of that
proposal would be a condition precedent to any other study. He
said he did not understand the basis for the JCS "prior acceptance"
position nor for the statement., "It should be recalled that one of
the principal purposes of this proposal was to insure against sur-
prise attack by either side and thereby create a suitable climate
for further progress in the field of international limitation of~
arms. The proposed exchange of a Technical Panel would not provide
this insurance." He asked Colonel Bailey for a copy of the August
26, 1955 memorandum referred to in the JCS September 1 memorandum
which may have served as the basis of this position.
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Colonel Bailey said he believed that foremost in the
minds of the Joint Chiefs was the fact that the existence of
.the Technical Exchange,Panel proposal in the Subcommittee prior
to a commitment by the USSR would afford the Soviets an oppor-
tunity to evade a commitment on the Eisenhower Geneva proposal.
The JCS feel strongly:that it would be extremely advantageous
.to the U.S. if the Soviet Union would agree on the President's
proposal as a first step,
Mr. Wainhouse asked whether the JCS position means that
the United States should not go on with anything in the way of
inspection until there has been prior acceptance by the USSR of
the President's proposal,, or whether it is just a matter of
timing. Colonel Bailey said he believed it is primarily a matter
of timing. Mr. Wainhouse replied that if that were true he
believed the Department of State would go along with that position.
Mr. Stassen said. he felt that the JCS paper is contrary
to the President's statement and contrary to the directive at
Geneva because it implies reserving previous Presidential and NSC
decisions by in effect saying that nothing should be done unless
the Soviets first accept the Eisenhower proposal. The final
directive on which the four heads of government agreed in Geneva
states that the Subcommittee is to proceed to develop a sound
inspection system and does not refer to any prior step of accepting
the President's proposal as a.condition to developing such a system.
'Mr. Wainhouse suggested that a position paper be prepared
which would relate the Technical Exchange Panel proposal in terms
of time and tactics to the President's proposal as a means of
clarifying this matter.
. Colonel Bailey said that if Mr. Stassen feels the U.S.
should proceed with the technical panel proposal,, the Department
of Defense would urge that the panel be limited in scope., if
possible to a study of objects of control, and that the traveling
aspects of that study be omitted.
Mr, Stassen said .we are more or less faced with three
problems: (a) how to proceed in the.study we were directed to
conduct by the heads of government., the President, and the NSC;
.(b) how to get off the hook., as directed,, on the old force levels
and the abolition of nuclear weapons and at the same time maintain