[FOR THE RECORD - NOTES OF DISCUSSION BETWEEN MR. KNOCHE AND GENERAL CARTER]

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80B01676R001300030039-5
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 7
• Document Creation Date: December 14, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 12, 2003
• Sequence Number: 39
• Publication Date: November 19, 1963
• Content Type: NOTES

Approved For RWase 2003/02/27': CIA-RpP80B01?676 300030039-5
19 November 1963
The following notes were taken during General Carter's
discussion with Mr. Knoche on 18 November regarding actions
to be taken during General Carter's absence.
1. 1 have given Kirk the organizational paper and I will
take it up with the staff on Monday morning (25 November).
2. 1 have done nothing about arranging for CIA briefings
at Fort Leavenworth for the Command and General Staff School of
the Army. I am afraid we might get into a crunch on it and I think
if we hit the Armed Forces Staff College at Norfolk, the top
Service Schools -- the Air War College, the Army War College,
the Naval War College, the National War College, and Industrial
College, and the Foreign Service Institute, we have just about done
the work where we should be doing the work. However, I am open
to arguments on this.
25X1
4. The Director indicated that he would discuss with the
President's Board some of those items that Kirk listed, plus the
items Kirk obtained from Coyne. One of these was the ncident. 25X1
I told the Director I had a big report on this incident. It is possible
that if there is a summary -- or if we could make a summary --
it could be given to the Director as a talking paper.
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80B01676R001300030039-5
 Approved Fo'T elease 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO167WR001300030039-5
1'')
5. Re N?KULTRA, I am scared to death of this. I do not
know what the status is. I want this wrapped up by the middle
of next week. Dick Helms says we should continue it. I gave it
back to Kirk, saying I am scared to death of this one, get together
with me and we will go see the DCI. I am prepared to make a
decision myself but I want Dick Helms, Kirk, Jack Earman, and
some of the hired help from TSD if theywant, in on it. I am not
about to lie with it the way it is now.
25X1
7. They continually jump on me for not being security
conscious as to the size of our budget, the fact that
1and as to
the number of people in the Agency. would like a lucid explanation
in writing as to what is so sensitive about those things, not for
public consumption but in a Secret briefing to people who know it is
a Secret briefing.
8. Kirk should keep the pressure on, since the DCI is away,
getting a letter out of Cannon -- and a favorable letter. That came
up at this morning's meeting.
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO1676R001300030039-5
 Approved FdToRelease 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80B016' R001300030039-5
10. I also want Kirk to follow up with Red White for arrange-
ments for I I retirement and presentation of an award.
He should follow up with directly.
13. I want Larry Houston to continue to pressure to get the
retirement act out of the Russell Committee and into the Senate --
not just wait for Russell, but to keep prodding. We will find the
calendar so jammed up they will say they cannot handle it this year
and we will have to start all over again.
14. Houston should sound out a luncheon for the New Mexico
Senator who is a former Governor -- Mechem. Bring him out here.
15. Houston should continue to follow very closely on the
Executive Pay Bill. I think they let that one flop by not digging hard
enough. That is my feeling. The damage is done. They must now
get back on it. We should pick out four or five of these at the morning
meetings every day.
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO1676R001300030039-5
 Approved FoYRelease 2003/02/27 CIA-RDP80B0167OR001300030039-5
-4-
16. Comptroller -- I have no problems.
17. IG -- I have no problems.
18. DD/I -- I have no problems.
19. I have not yet reviewed the
I return.
study. I will do it when
25X1
21. As to surfacing the OX, I am dead set against it under
any circumstances, certainly at this stage of the game. I have given
my views on the Fubini draft statement directly to Wheelon. He knows
them. If there is a real crunch on this, Bud Wheelon and Kirk should
go to the DCI because the DCI indicated he was going to get the
Secretary of Defense and take him to the White House and give this
paper to the President which was to go into the deep freeze. I think
the DOD is trying to euchre us into a position where they surface it
as a political thing.
22. The Commo study is still hanging fire.
23. If there is any backtalk from Gilpatric on the return of
the U-2's or if we get it down through the working level that there is
a flap going on, I want it brought to my attention right away. I also
want to be kept thoroughly up to date on the progress of getting the
U-2 I do not know whether
it was taken up with the President and approved yet. The Special
Group agreed to it.
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80B01676R001300030039-5
 Approved Foi Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80B0167i9*R001300030039-5
24. I presume the DCI will handle Special Group on Thursday
if there is one. With Mac Bundy getting back from Hawaii Thursday
morning, I think they could do away with Special Group, and I so
recommend.
25. On the CORONA program and the McMillan proposal to
take over all of it, I have given my views to Wheelon and
and they are preparing papers in accordance with my instructions.
The main action outside of CIA is a simple letter to McMillan stating
that this matter is so important to the intelligence community in the
long-range satellite collection program, that the DCI does not feel
he is knowledgeable enough yet to say yes or no. Accordingly he
asked Bud Wheelon to go to the West Coast and read through the
situation from top to bottom and asked Dr. McMillan to take necessary
action to ensure the proper care and handling of Dr. Wheelon.
26. As to the NASA/DOD agreement, I still have that here.
I will write to Gene Fubini when I return. He already agreed that the
addition of paragraph 7 to the Agreement was done without our
knowledge but with no intent to confuse. He also agreed that any action
taken by DD/R&E of DOD in accordance with paragraph 7 will have
been previously cleared with the DCI or his appropriate designee.
This has to do with open or closed contract procedures.
27. As regards or whatever it is now called, we got
clear guidance from the irec or this morning and Bud Wheelon knows
where to go. He should clue Kirk in on it.
28. 0is being released by JCS and the DCI seemed to
like the idea of getting him over here. I do not know where we would
use him because people over here are not enchanted with him. But
he is a real smart guy. I want to take a look to see if we have anything
to offer him and where we might use him.
29. At one time Bud Wheelon asked me to sound the DCI out
on getting The DCI thinks it would be a hell of a good
idea but would like a closer check as to just why he left
after such a short time and what, if any, problems we would
have with the administration, how he stands now.
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80B01676R001300030039-5
 Approved Fo! Release 2003/02/27 : CIA- RDP80B016W001300030039-5
30. The DCI said he would not take any action to prevent
from going to Moscow, but he wants a real wire brushing
on tH-e-security aspects,
31. The DCI asked for a report as to why the Secretary of
State did not know about the existence of a when they
were shooting the flares up.
32. Thank Colonel for the information about Colonel
Check for me out there by phone. Send a message to
Colonel that I am out of town but hope to see him when I get
back.
33. The DCI wire-brushed on the P*resident's speech about
Cuba. I issued an instruction that whenever we get a speech or
public statement over here for issuance of any higher authority or
as a matter of policy, under no circumstances are we to limit our
advice to the DCI on purely intelligence matters. We will cover the
whole waterfront and give him our best advice as to what, if anything,
is wrong with the paper, what should be added, what should be
deleted, across the boards, economic, political, policy, military,
anything. That is purely in-house. What he does with it is his
responsibility.
34. Re the I am sitting on that. I will continue to
sit on it until the DCI blasts the works from me.
35. How about the arms cache?
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO1676R001300030039-5
 Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO1676R001300030039-5
MEMORANDUM FOR: Mr. Knoche
As I said, there are one or two parts where
I got a bit lost -- paragraph 12 was a bit con-
fusing to me when he was talking -- but I just
typed up what I did get out of it, probably
leaving out parts of what he said.
Barbara (19 Nov)
DATE)
FORM NO. IQI REPLACES FORM I
1 AUG ae O-101
Approved For Release 2003/02/27 : CIA-RDP80BO1676R001300030039-5