CONVERSATION WITH SAM HOSKINSON, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL STAFF

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CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1
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RIPPUB
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C
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23
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December 15, 2016
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March 10, 2004
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2
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Publication Date: 
May 13, 1977
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MFR
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Approved For Rel se 2004//23 CIA-RbP86M00165A 600150002-1 ILLS IB OLC 77-2059 13 May 1977 MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD SUBJECT: Conversation with Sam Hoskinson, National Security -- Council Staff 1. Sam Hoskinson, NSC staff, called and gave me a brief rundown on the President's meeting with the members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at the White House this morning. 2. Mr. Hoskinson said that on the subject of an open intelligence budget, the President held to the position taken by Admiral Turner in the open budget hearings before the Select Committee, which was that the Administration would not release the figure but if the Select Committee was interested in pursuing this matter with the full Senate, the Administration would not object to the release of one figure for all U. S. intelligence activities. The President strongly opposed any further breakout of intelligence budget data. 3. The President also expressed a view that the Select Committee should have consulted him earlier regarding the statement 25X1 which it ultimately made public and inferred that he would hope that the Committee would not resort to the Section 8 procedure as it did in the --Incident. 4. On the subject of charters, the President indicated generally that once the PRM-ll exercise is completed, he would he willing to work with the Committee on the subject of intelligence charters but took the position that these charters should not go into great detail. This matter is being handled in the Executive Branch he said by the Vice President and Admiral Turner. In this connection, Senator Walter Huddleston (D., Ky.) expressed support for a strong DCI with line and resource control and the President seemed to agree with that position. 25X1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23 CIA-RDP80M00165 - Approved For Release 2004/03/23 CIA-RDP80M00165AW0600150002-1 5. Mr. Hoskinson also mentioned that Senator Birch Bayh (D., Ind.) indicated that he was very happy with the electronic surveillance bill which has been worked in the Executive Branch. Senator Barry Goldwater (R., Ariz.) expressed a view that the Administration was reporting in too great detail to the Select Committee on covert activities. 6. According to Mr. Hoskinson, at the end of the meeting, -thee President had great praise for CIA saying that it was doing a superb job and that its work was better than he had ever dreamed it would be. He also gave a strong endorsement of Admiral Turner. EO GE L. GARY 1.,egislative Counsel Distribution: Original - OLC subj Original I-OGC 1 - IC Staff 1 - Comptroller OLC /GLC:baa Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 25X1 Approvqd 04/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165Ap6g0 MEMO1ANDUM FOR: Attached is a revised edition of the talking points dropped off in your office by Admiral Turner yesterday. EA Date 9 May 1977 5 75 FORM 101 USE PREVIOUS STAT Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 IL Approved or RIase 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165l0600150002-1 SUGGESTED POINTS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RAISE WITH THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE 1. Legislative Charters. a. Willing to accept. b. Want to work closely with the Committee: (1) to avoid a situation in which the legislative charters become too detailed and tie down the specifics of the intelligence process in too permanent a manner. (2) so that central purpose of charter is not lost in unnecessary debate over executive and legislative privilege. c. Hope charters and new Executive Order can be a matching set. d. Expect to have our proposed changes to Executive Order ready by mid-June. (1) Will discuss with Committee prior to issuing. 2. Security of Information. a. Imperative be able to hold important data. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Re else 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165A QO600150002-1 (1) Hope Select Committee can shoulder most of Senate responsibility for oversight of sensitive materials. 3. Open Budget. a. Agreed not to object to disclosure of a single budget figure in a desire to be more forthcoming-and open. Am persuaded that only a single figure can be released within the bounds of security. Am prepared to enforce a strict policy on that regard within the Executive Branch. b. It is now up to the Senate as to what you want to do. Do not want to attempt to dictate to you because of the accompanying responsibility also to maintain a strict adherence to a policy of only one number. 4. Intelligence Oversight Board. a. Have reconstituted the Intelligence Oversight Board with three capable men. The Chairman has had some experience in the intelligence business and hence will lead a modicum of expertise. Senator Gore and Governor Scranton are, of course, citizens with distinguished records of public service. b. Have elected to disestablish the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, largely in view of the increased role that the Senate Select Committee is playing in reviewing- the intelligence process. I anticipate a continuing and useful dialogue with the Committee and hope that this will, in large Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00'165A000600150002-1 Approved For Rase 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A4W600150002-1 measure, substitute for the Advisory Board. In addition, such a Board must have access to all of the most sensitive intelligence information. There is always some risk inherent in simply expanding the numbers of people exposed to this kind of information. 5. Electronic Surveillance Bill. a. This Administration has submitted an Electronic Surveillance Bill which should be effective in preventing abuse of personal liberties of our citizens as a result of improper electronic surveillance. b. The Attorney General is developing a bill that will similarly prevent abuses of physical surveillance. c. The Attorney General is also developing legislation to protect the rights of Americans overseas against all forms of surveillance. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Re ase 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165AQA0600150002-1 SUGGESTED POINTS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RAISE WITH SPEAKER O'NEILL AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1. House Select Committee on Intelligence. a., Hope that the House can move expeditiously in creating such a body. b. The parallel committee in the Senate is proving very useful. c. Would hope that such a committee would be able to assume some of the jurisdiction that is presently spread over three committees in the House, especially with regard to the necessary .disclosure of highly sensitive information such as covert operations and clandestine collection. d. Would hope that the activities of this committee could be exempted from Rule 11, whereby any Member of the House can have access to the records of any committee. e. Have confidence in the Speaker's selection of highly responsible members for such a sensitive .operation. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 _Z_ Approved For Rase 2004/03/23 CIA-RDP80M00l65Aii00600150002-1 2. Open Budget. a. Agreed not to object to disclosure of a single budget figure in a desire to be more forthcoming and open. Am persuaded that only a single figure can be released within the bounds of security, and am prepared to enforce a strict'policy on that regard within the Executive Branch. 4. Intelligence Oversight Board. a. Have reconstituted the Intelligence Oversight Board with three capable men-. The Chairman has had some experience in the intelligence business and hence will lend a modicum of expertise. Senator Gore and Governor Scranton are, of course, citizens with distinguished records of public service. b. Have elected to disestablish the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, largely in view of the increased role that the Senate Select Committee is playing in reviewing-the intelligence process, and hopefully a House Select Committee will play. In addition, such a Board must have access to all of the most sensitive intelligence information. There is always some risk inherent in simply expanding the numbers of people exposed to this kind of information. . Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00l65A000600150002-1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 U Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 MEMORANDUM FOR ; The Vice President FROM Director-of Central Intelligence Approved For Releaag2004/03/2:2t-i30M00165A000AD0150002-1 9 May 1977 Attached are two talking papers for the President's meetings. later this week with Congressman O'Neill and Senator Inouye. Attachment The Director of Central Intelligence Approved For Release 2004/03/23 LB~i 6utn6tliy.i.u 11Arivr STANSFIELD TURNER : CIA-RDP80MOO165A000600150002-1 Approved For Rele 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165A0000150002-1 SUGGESTED POINTS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RAISE WITH THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE Legislative Charters. a. Willing accept. b. Want to work with the Committee to avoid a situation in which the legislative charters become. too detailed and tie down the specifics of the intelligence process in too permanent a manner. c. Hope charters and new Executive Order can be a matching set. d. Expect to have our proposed changes to Executive Order ready by mid-June. (1) Will discuss with Committee prior to issuing. Security of Information. a. Imperative be able to hold important data. _(1) Hope Select Commitee can shoulder most of Senate responsibility for oversight of sensitive materials. Open Budget. a. Agreed not to object to disclosure of a single budget figure in a desire to be more forthcoming and open. Am persuaded that only a single figure -2- Approved For Rele 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80MO0165AO0 0150002-1 you want to do. Do not want to attempt to dictate to you because of the accompanying responsibility also to maintain a strict adherence to a policy of only one. number. Intelligence Oversight Board. a. Have reconstituted the Intelligence Oversight Board with three capable men. The can be released within the bounds of security. Am prepared to enforce a strict policy on that regard within the Executive Branch. b. It is now up to the Senate as to what Chairman has had some experience in the intel- ligence business and hence will lend a modicum of expertise. Senator Gore and Governor Scranton are, of course, citizens with distinguished records of public service. dialogue with the Committee and hope that this process. I anticipate a continuing and useful b. Have elected to disestablish the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, largely in view of the increased role that the Senate Select Committee is playing in reviewing the intelligence will, in large measure, substitute for the Advisory Board. In addition, such a Board must have access There is always some risk inherent in simply to all of the most sensitive intelligence information. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 expanding the numbers of people exposed to this kind of information. 5., Electronic Surveillance Bill. a. This Administration has submitted an Electronic Surveillance Bill which should be effective in preventing abuse of personal liberties of our citizens as a result of improper electronic surveillance. b. The Attorney General is developing a bill that will similarly prevent abuses of physical surveillance. c. The Attorney General is also developing legislation to protect the rights of Americans overseas against all forms of surveillance. Approved For Release 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Relea !2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80MOO165AOOW150002-1 SUGGESTED POINTS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RAISE WITH SPEAKER O'NEILL AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1. House Select Committee on Intelligence. a., Hope that the House can move expeditiously in creating such a body. b. The parallel committee in the Senate is proving very. useful c. Would hope that such a committee would be able to assume some of the jurisdiction that is presently spread over three committees in the House, especially with regard to the necessary disclosure of highly sensitive information such as covert operations and clandestine collection. d. Would hope that the activities of this committee could be exempted from Rule 11, whereby any Member of the House can have-access to the records of any committee. e. Have confidence in the Speaker's selection of highly responsible members for such a sensitive operation. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Relea 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80MOO165A000W150002-1 2. Open. Budget. Oversight Board with three capable men. The .a. Have reconstituted the Intelligence Intelligence Oversight Board. a. Agreed not to object to disclosure of a single budget figure in a desire to be more forthcoming and open. Am persuaded that only a single figure can be released within the bounds of security, and am prepared to enforce a strict policy on that regard within the Executive Branch. Chairman has had some experience in the intelligence business and hence will lend a modicum of expertise. Senator Gore and Governor Scranton are, of course, citizens with distinguished records of public service. b. Committee is playing in reviewing 'the intelligence view of the increased role that the Senate Select Have elected to disestablish the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, largely in process, and hopefully a House Select Committee will 'play. In addition, such a Board must have access to all of the most sensitive intelligence information. There is always some risk inherent in simply expanding the numbers of people exposed to this kind of information. Approved For Rase 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M001654400600150002-1 Suggested Points to Raise with Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1. Legislative Charters - Willing accept Concerned lest be too detailed and permanent Expect to have our proposed changes to Executive Order ready by mid-June Will discuss with Committee prior to issuing Hope Charters and new Executive Order can be a matching set 2. Security of Information Imperative be able hold important data Hope Select Committee can shoulder most of Senate responsibility for oversight of sensitive materials. 3. Open Budget "As stated by Admiral Turner in his testimony on 27 April, I would not object if the Congress decided to release to the public a single figure for the national foreign intelligence program budget. I do this with the sense of confidence that I would be able to hold the line within the Executive Department to prevent any breakdown of that single figure into its component parts. It is not within my purview to make a similar determination of the ability to prevent an unraveling within the Legislative Branch. It is the responsibility of Congress itself to come to their own conclusion on this basic factor in deciding whether or not to release the figure." Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Admiral Stansfield Turner Director Central Intelligence Agency Washington, D.C. May 24, Foreign Intelligence Advisory Boar . A copy of this Report has been sent to the President D3/23: CIA P%66 '0600150002-1 /J 7_ /19Ull, IN REPLY PLEASE REFER TO R#7984 Dear Admiral Turner: On behalf of the SSCI,_I`am sending for your infor- mation a copy of our classified Report on the national intelligence estimates process as reflected in the recent pis. report on the NIE B Team experiment in competitive analysis. report Report, prepared by the Subcommittee on Collection, Production and Quality chaired by Senator Adlai Stevenson, examines the facts of the case and analyzes both the pro- cedures used in the experiment on competitive analysis and the national intelligence estimates process. it also makes findings and recommendations for improvement in the national intelligence estimates process. The Report has been reviewed and approved by the Sub- committee on Collection, Production and Quality and the full Committee. In addition, Admiral Stansfield Turner has submitted at our request comments on the draft report. His comments in large measure into constructive ofdthelReport. and many were incorporated The Report also contains the additional views of Senator Gary Hart. The preparation of the Report was undertaken with the full cooperation of all the agencies of the national intelligence community andd of the recent President:'sILLEGIB and Vice President. With kind regards, Encl . Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 25X1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Next 5 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80MOO165UP0600150002-1 SUGGESTED POINTS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RAISE WITH THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE 1. Legislative Charters. a. Willing to look at question of need for modifications to or additions to charters. b. Want to work closely with. the Committee; (1) to avoid a situation in which the legislative charters become too detailed and tie down the specifics of the intelligence process in too permanent a manner. (2) so that central purpose of charter is not lost in unnecessary debate over executive and legislative privilege. c. Hope charters and new Executive Order can be a matching set. d. Expect to have our proposed changes to Executive Order ready by mid-June. (1) Will discuss with Committee prior to issuing. 2. Securit of Information. a. Imperative be able to hold important data. b. Hope Select Committee can shoulder most of Senate responsibility for oversight of sensitive materials. c. Taking steps to reduce proliferation of sensitive material in Executive Branch and hope Committee will do same in Congress. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For Release 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165UO0600150002-1 WIF d. In furtherance of above, would like to see joint committee on intelligence or select committee in the House comparable to the Senate Select ,Committee. e. Would also like to see repeal or modification of Section 662 (Hughes/Ryan amendment)-of the For6gnAssistance Acts to limit reports on covert action programs to four committees of Congress maximum. 3. Open Buet._ a. Agreed not to object to disclosure of a single budget figure in a desire to be more forthcoming and open. Am persuaded that only a single figure can be released within the bounds of security. Am prepared to enforce a strict policy,on that regard within the Executive Branch. b. It is now up to the Senate ~?.s to what you want to do. Do not want to attempt to dictate to you because of the accompanying responsibility also to maintain a strict adherence to a policy of only one number. 4. Intelligence Oversight Board. a. Have reconstituted the Intelligence Oversight Board with three capable men. The Chairman has had some experience in the intelligence business and. hence will lead a modicum of expertise. Senator Gore and Governor Scranton are, of course, citizens with distinguished records of public service. b. Have elected to disestablish the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, largely in view of the increased role that the Senate Select Committee is playing in reviewing the intelligence process. :I anticipate a continuing and useful dialogue with the Committee and hope that this will, in large measure, substitute for the Advisory Board. In addition, such a Board must have access to all of the most sensitive intelligence information. There is always some risk inherent in simply expanding the numbers of people exposed to this kind of information. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For RaI pse 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165AQp600150002-1 5. Electronic Surveillance Bill. a. This Administration has submitted an Electronic Surveillance Bill which should be effective in preventing abuse of personal liberties of our citizens as a result of improper electronic surveillance. b, The Attorney General is developing a bill that will similarly prevent abuses of physical surveillance. c. The Attorney General is also developing legislation to protect the rights of Americans overseas against all forms of surveillance. 7. Positive Role that Oversight Committees Can Pla. a. Dispelling notions created in the press regarding such things as "quid pro quo" between U. S. and foreign intelligence agencies. b. Dispelling erroneous allegations concerning CIA. involvement c. Conducting investigations (such a ) without risk of disclosure of intelligence sources and methods. Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Approved For ReIse 2004/03/23: CIA-RDP80M00165A W0600150002-1 d. Assistance in protecting intelligence agencies against unintentional limitations that might be imposed in general statutes -- such as assistance members gave in handling recent amendments to Securities and Exchange Act (S. 305). Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 STAT Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1 Next 3 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2004/03/23 : CIA-RDP80M00165A000600150002-1