11 JULY 1978 INTELLIGENCE CHARTER HEARING

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP81M00980R000700120064-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 6
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 22, 2004
• Sequence Number: 64
• Publication Date: July 14, 1978
• Content Type: MFR

fU! P, r ; "in
OLC 78-0399/94
14 Jul 1978
SUBJECT: 11 July 1978 Intelligence Charter Hearing
1. On 11 July 1978, Rick Cinquegrana, OGC, and the undersigned
attended another of the continuing open session hearings held by the
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) on S. 2525, the
intelligence charter legislation. The following individuals testified:
--Louis W. Schneider, Executive Secretary, "American
Friends Service Committee";
--Ethel Taylor, representing the "Women Strike for Peace"; and
--Richard Gutman, Director and General Counsel, "Chicago
Political Surveillance Litigation and Education Project."
Note:" A-brief description of each of these organizations is provided
in an attachment hereto. Each of these organizations was billed as
"victims of past intelligence abuses."
2. In terms of Senators present to hear testimony, this session was
the most poorly"attended. Only Senator Jake Gam (R., Utah) was present.
Senator Birch Bayh (D., Ind.) did make an appearance after the witnesses
had already made their statements. Consequently, he was unable to
meaningfully question the witnesses to ellicit further their viewpoints
for the record.
3. Mr. Schneider, in his testimony on behalf of the American Friends
Service Committee (hereinafter AFSC) made the following points:
--Mr. Schneider stressed that AFSC supports the letter and
spirit of the First Amendment with regard to openness and freedom,
and is therefore opposed to the continuation of "either secret
or overt local, state and federal police activity which undermines
and cancels the freedoms which under law they should logically
protect";
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--Mr. Schneider stated that in April 1976, AFSC issued a
statement calling for the abolition of the CIA and the Internal
Security Division of the FBI; there was nothing in AFSC's statement
and subsequent testimony under questioning to indicate a departure
from this stated "solution";
--Quoting from the 1976 AFSC statement mentioned immediately
above (a full copy of which is attached), Mr. Schneider under-
scored the following points:
"The repeated violations of these [CIA and ISD of the
FBI] agencies have so unmistakenly compromised these
two bodies that it is certain that they are beyond
salvage as agencies in which Americans can confidently
place their trust. Unless strong action is taken, there
will always be the fear that they will again, under
the cover of secrecy, resort to the kind of improper
and illegal methods that have indelibly tarnished
their names at home and abroad." "emphasis adcTed)
Mr. Schneider continued:
"Believing in the Quaker ideal of an open society
in which we are all free to promote peace, equality
and justice without fear, the [AFSC] unhesitantly
adds its voice to those which say that the CIA and
[ISD] of the FBI must be abolished." (emphasis added)
--Mr. Schneider stressed that any attempts to reform the
intelligence agencies is fraught with "inherent pitfalls" and
emphasized the fact that it is AFSC's position that the agencies
of the intelligence community are "totally discredited, that their
operations have done little if anything to further national security,
.and that legislative guidelines will be interpreted as to be
virtually meaningless";
--Mr. Schneider indicated that, in the opinion of AFSC after
review of S. 2525, the proposed charter would "make AFSC and
organizations engaged in similar work the legitimate targets
of government surveillance";
--Mr. Schneider-said that FBI and CIA abuses should not be
blamed on particular individuals, but on what he called "the
organic and-insidious growth of a bureaucratic mentality that has
ultimately last; respect for the spirit and=:letter_of the Constitution
and is at war with the American people" (emphasis added) ;
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--Mr. Schneider stated that since 1947 the intelligence
agencies have taken on a life of their own, expanding in size
and scope, and that "despite massive violations of rights and
other illegal activities they have accomplished little that
would argue for their continued existence";
--Commenting on the proposed charter itself, Mr. Schneider
said S. 2525:
--appears to be based on a formula of prohibitions
coupled with broad grants of executive discretion which
equals the legitimizing of past abuses and the wholesale
violation of constitutional rights;
--does not limit the authority to collect information
(as may have been intended) but rather empowers the
President to expand coverage of "national intelligence
activities" thus opening the door to misuse. of intelligence
gathering capabilities;
--grants authority that goes beyond inquiries into
the violation of criminal law or necessities of agency
administration;
--contains broad conspiracy language that would
continue abuses of the past in that groups could be
targets of surveillance because they might in the future
develop into a group capable of engaging in a criminal
violation;
--contains guidelines regarding actions that the
intelligence agencies may engage in that are remarkably
vague and consists of grants of power that would allow the
COINTELPRO to operate domestically and permit such
activities as the overthrow of a Chilean government.
--Mr. Schneider concluded by conceding that "[r]ealism
compels us to recognize that the AFSC remedy for intelligence
agency abuse is a goal that may not be fully reached."
4. Ms. Taylor, representing the "Women Strike for Peace" made the
following points:
--the charter should tighten prohibitions rather than create
oopholes which legitimizeviolations;
--the bill as drafted appears to officially sanction abuses
which the bill is supposed to eliminate;
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--the bill makes no provision for expungement of records of
groups or individuals under surveillance;
--Domestic counterintelligence activities should not occur
unless there is a reasonable suspicion, based on concrete evidence
of a violation of the criminal statutes, including criminal
espionage, criminal treason or criminal sabotage;
--The CIA could easily use section 221 of S. 2525 (background
investigations) as a pretext to engage in domestic spying on
an American citizen; the CIA should not engage in a background
investigation of a potential recruit without first acquiring
the individual's permission, which consent could easily be
acquired without disclosing the details of the proposed
__ operation;
-A provision should. expressly provide for the destruction
--Ms. Taylor objected to the "reasonable belief" standard,
citing section-213 of S. 2525, as a vaguer standard for authorizing
an investigation than the standard set iqp in the Fourth Amendment
which requires "probable cause to believe" that a person has
committed or is about to commit a. crime;
--there is no reason for surveillance of Americans abroad
unless it is for criminal investigations and under the direction
of the Justice Department;
-S. 2525 is so broadly written and in such vague general
language that it readily lends itself to "national security"
interpretation so as to permit an intelligence entity to conduct
almost any kind of activity it wishes; little comfort can be
found in the statute's reliance on the Attorney General or his
designees;
-Ms. Taylor concluded by saying that "Women Strike for Peace"
is not suggesting that there be no intelligence activity in the
U.S., but rather that such activity must come under constitutional
control; in the opinion of "Women Strike for Peace," S. 2525 needs
major revision to attain this goal.
5. Mr. Gut.man, with particular reference to the abuses of the CIA
._as.relate to the class action lawsuit he is involved in as plaintiff's
counsel, made the following comments and recommendations:
-of all information currently in the CIA files without-foreign
intelligence value;
--Mr. Gutman concluded by stating that rather than prohibit
the types of abuses made evident in his lawsuit, S. 2525 would
legitimize them; he called for a major rewrite of S. 2525 to
"ensure that the CIA's systematic abuses of human rights not
reoc } ; "+dltFA a d4?1 W999ROM I0( 4-2
opera ons' is a grave t reat to the future security of the
American people.
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6. Questioning by Senator Garn took the form of'the Senator expressing
astonishment over what he considered an "overindictment" of the intelligence
agencies by the witnesses. While strongly sipporting the CIA and its
employees and emphasizing the massive attempts by the Soviet Union at
espionage within the U.S., Senator Gam said he found it incredible that
anyone would recommend abolishing the CIA, thits leaving all U.S. citizens
subject to KGB activities. Senator Garn accused the witnesses of the same
form of extremism that resulted in the abuses of the past (e.g., by their
broad condemnation of the entire intelligence community Senator Garn said
the witnesses have condemned intelligence on the basis of "guilt by
association.") Senator Gam stressed that the vast majority of CIA and
FBI officials welcome guidelines, which, he said, might come as a surprise
to the witnesses. In closing Senator Garn said that the sum total of the
witnesses' testimony goes beyond permissiveness and would serve only to
undermine legitimate intelligence activities.
7. Senator Bayh, during the questioning process, made the following
points:
--Since the Ford Administration with Mr. Levi as Attorney
General and continuing with the Carter-Bell team, intelligence
agencies are operating in a different environment;
--IUhile we must learn from the past, any effort at reform
must strike a delicate balance which is a very difficult thing
to do in the legislative process;
--Senator Bayh said that he senses a movement away from the
need for charter legislation; he said he feels pressure to allow
business to transpire as usual*; Senator Bayh said he would not
accept this.
--Following up on his previous comment, Senator Bayh said that he is
concerned that there is a movement afoot in the context of charter
legislation that espouses the idea that the alternative to prudent
legislation should be no legislation.
--In response to a question by one of the witnesses who asked
if the Committee as a whole reflects Senator Garn.'s fear of a_massive
Soviet network in this country to the point that such fear would have
a chilling effect on this legislation, Senator Bayh responded that
there is a threat which must be dealt with firmly but without damage
to the rights of U.S. citizens. Senator Bayh concluded by adding;
that foreign governments are doing things that we have not been
able to find out how to constitutionally stop (Mr. Bayh did not
elaborate).
Asp;Istant egg Legf9lative Counsel
STA';T
*Note: SAW(91v af1?rl e pn nYJ0a%.CnAg-ayPthe Q 98 a House Oal?n g with
other congressional leaders summoned by the President to discuss intelligence
matters.
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STAT
Distribution:
2- O/DCI
1 - DDO/P
1 - DDS&T
1-DDA
1 - NFAC
1 - AD-M/NFAC
1 - Asst. for Public Affairs
1 - Tom Harvey
1 - IG
1 - Comet
1 - OGC
1 - OTR/Hanns Moses
1 - OLC Subject
1 - OLC Chrono
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