Notes on Third Meeting, NSCIC Working Group, 12 April 1972, 1430 hours

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP84B00506R000100020023-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 7
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 13, 2004
• Sequence Number: 23
• Publication Date: April 12, 1972
• Content Type: MFR

Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : - 794BOO506RWP100020023-8
12 April 1972
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT: Notes on Third Meeting, NSCIC Working Group,
12 April 1972, 1430 hours
Members:
Chairman Mr. Bronson Tweedy, D/DCI/IC
NSC Staff Mr. Andrew Marshall
State Department Dr. Ray Cline
Mr. Seymour Weiss
Defense Department Dr. Albert Hall, ASD/I
Brig. Gen. Richard Breznahan. JCS
(representing Vice Adm. Weinel)
Lt. Gen. Donald Bennett, D/DIA
Justice Department Mr. Kevin T. Maroney, Deputy
Assist. Attorney General
CIA Dr. Edward Proctor, DDI
Mr. John Huizenga, D/ONE
State Department
Justice Department
CIA
Mr. Richard Curl
Mr. Bernard A. Wells
25X1A9A
2. The minutes of the 4 February meeting were approved without
change.
3. Economic Intellig~nce Report:
Mr. Tweedy opened the discussion by indicating the DDI report
covered only OER activities and Mr. Proctor added that only publications
relating to non-communist countries were covered.
Mr. Marshall reported the PFIAB report on economic intelligence
(19 December 1971) had been disseminated for comment but his impression
was the PFIAB intended no additional initiatives with respect to the
recommendations in their report.. However, he said his talks with
Ed Allen of Commerce Department, John McGuinness of Treasury, and
others gave him the feeling the NSCIC Working Group should form a
team to monitor what was going on in foreign economic intelligence
throughout Washington as basis for recommendations for NSCIC action.
Mr. Marshall said concern had been expressed to him as to the help-
*NSC DecIassificaticfiy/ f as4IA ul d8fiiRnrI i? is relating to U.S. negotiations. Information
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : CIA-RDP84BOO506ROO0100020023-
H u , ~w,a ? r,I Fns
T=;12&Qrmw
t?
 Approved For ReI case 2004/10/08 : CIA-RDP84BO0506ROVAg,100020023-8
which would allow appraisal of how hard the positions of nth
nations were was not hai nn nrn ii riarl to the PxtPnt n d -d. I
The Chairman expressed concern that the U.S. negotiators
had not asked for what they want.
Mr. Marshall conceded that something needed to be done to
get the people who say they need economic information to state their
needs in a more clearcut fashion and he again suggested assembly of a
group to write a report on what the needs for foreign economic
intelligence are and a description of what intelligence is doing
about these needs.
Mr. Proctor said the EIC Working Group which is examining
collection requirements will consider its draft report on 13 April
and he noted that the CIEP, Commerce, Agriculture, and other
departments were represented on this working group. He also
reported that CIEPSM-6 is being developed in preparation for the
1973 tariff negotiations. 'This, to his knowledge, is the first
concerted effort to assemble a statement of the issues which will be
involved and it should give an indication as to what intelligence
will be needed. He hoped a dialogue among NSC Staff representatives,
State, and CIA would provide a better understanding as to what
intelligence can and cannot do.
Dr. Cline noted there is a structure for handling economic
problems. The CIEP has an operations group chaired by
the Deputy Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs. INR attempts
to service this group but the group also requests data from other
agencies. He suggested there should be an intelligence working
group or analysis group established to support the CIEP operations
group. This intelligence working group could focus on questions
needing collection and analysis and develop terms of reference for
studies. He said INR is attempting to do this but broader partici-
pation would be helpful.
Mr. Proctor viewed the problem as two-fold. First there is
the matter of analysis and production on general foreign economic
matters. The time element is not urgent and most of the information
is unclassified and readily available from open publications or
diplomatic sources. The second aspect, however, is collection against
the negotiating positions of the major trade partners of the United
States, and here the key problem is timely access to sources. The
problem is difficult because national positions may not really be
developed until negotiations actually are underway.
25X1
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 CIA-RDP84B00506R000100020023-8
 Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : k- l 4B00506R0100020023-8 V4W
The Chairman suggested the same requirements be served on
State since diplomatic sources could work on these same problems.
Mr. Cline agreed but noted that such reports are not normally
in inelliaen~cp.,p and the problem is getting at the information
for intelligence analysis purposes.,
The Chairman suggested the group should await completion
of the EIC report before determining the next step to be taken, but when
Mr. Marshall again raised the matter of finding out what is being done
by agencies other than CIA, Mr. Proctor agreed to attempt preparation
of a description of what is underway in the Departments of Commerce
and Agriculture and said he would ask the Treasury to provide an
input. Mr. Cline said he would also prepare a report on what is
being done on economic intelligence in the Department of State.
4. Report on International Narcotics Traffic:
Mr. Maroney recommended that any further action on this
report be held in abeyance (as was recommended in the PRG document)
until the CCPC study of intelligence activities against narotics and
dangerous drugs was completed and available for study by the Working
Group. This proposal was accepted without further comment.
5. Terms of Reference:
The Chairman noted proposed terms of reference for the
Working Group were being disseminated and he requested that members
provide any comments by 1 May.
Approved For Release 2004/10/00 P84B00506R000100020023-8
25X1
 Approved For Rel%se 2004/10/08 : CIX P 4B00506ROW00020023-8
6. Production Resources:
The Chairman noted that the study on U.S. intelligence
production resources which had been disseminated had been prepared to
provide basis for future studies relating to the use of production
resources.
Dr. Hall commented that he felt the study would be useful, but
he noted that what was now needed was the development of criteria
for what the Working Group wanted to do with respect to intelligence
production programs. He noted that duplication might be one aspect
of the problem, but that he was thinking primarily about examining the
overall quality of the products. Since covering the waterfront on
intelligence production would be too huge a task, he proposed that the
problem be approached on a selective basis and that persons from outside
the intelligence community be requested to evaluate the output on the
particular subject selected for review. He suggested that examination
of intelligence production on China during the past two years might be
a suitable target.
The Chairman noted there could be an overlap of criteria --
what would we be looking at, how well we are covering China or how well
the overall problem is being covered.
Dr. Hall conceded there would be an overlap but the study
might well provide ideas which would enable assessment of how well the
intelligence community is functioning. He suggested forming a group
which would include consumer representatives to examine questions
such as how good a job is being done, how much overlap exists, how
performance could be improved.
Mr. Proctor said he had no problem with the concept but did
have a problem with China as the subject since the problem of production
on China already has been almost beaten to death. He suggested a
much more narrow and more manageable subject such as a follow-on
examination to the India/Pakistan crisis coverage which would involve
an evaluation from consumers as to how adequate this coverage was.
General Bennett said he would prefer China as a subject of
study since he is concerned as to whether intelligence is working on
the right problems. If China was too big a problem, he still would like
to focus on some aspect of production on China.
Dr. Hall said his suggestion was there be a review of the
function of production so the topic must be a live one.
Mr. Cline indicated that if assessing the adequacy of
collection was not to be studied, China would be a much more manageable
subject to examine.
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : CIA4-RDP84B00506R000100020023-8
 Approved For Rele ,e 2004/10/08 : C 00506RO 0020023-8
Dr. Hall said he hoped the study would be professional enough
to enable judgment as to the quality of output in terms of what
information was available and how pressing time deadlines were.
The Chairman suggested the focus be on, perhaps, political or
military developments in China.
Mr. Huizenga expressed concern as to who could judge the
quality of output because, on the basis of his contacts with consultants,
he was convinced the best work on China was being done within the
intelligence community.
Dr. Hall said that what he felt should be examined was the
production function itself, that rules for assessing production should
be developed and then the subject for coverage selected.
The Chairman. agreed, indicating this would involve examination
of how analysts work, whether they have enough time for effective
analysis, how good they area, how well paid.
Dr. Hall added that check also would need to be made on
whether different organizations were working on the same thing and
were the analysts given the right questions. He proposed that attention
be given to assigning grades to the products.
General Bennett said he considers it fundamental to assess
whether analysts are asked the right questions and whether their output
is actually helpful to moving something along since this was the real
reason for production. He said his basic concern was with identifying
consumer needs.
Mr. Proctor thought the problem had two levels. First, from
a consumer standpoint, effort should be made to identify the extent
to which papers served the consumer needs and where deficiencies
existed. The second level involved calling in outside experts to
determine whether these deficiencies should have existed, given the
available information and time.
Mr. Cline suggested Dr. Hall develop a terms of reference on the
kind of study he had in mind and Dr. Hall agreed to do so, but indicated
he would hope to have assistance from State, CIA, and the NSC Staff.
The Chairman noted that the matter of duplication had been
mentioned and he suggested that assembly of an inventory of standard
production entities might be a proper first step.
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : CIA~RDP84B00506R000100020023-8
 Approved For ReJe se 2004/10/08: CIA-RDP84B00506RGQP100020023-8
Mr. Proctor noted that the matter of overlap in current
intelligence production comes up frequently. He said that every
major field commander feels he needshis own current intelligence
publications and there are a number of quite specialized current
publications. He felt a review of current intelligence publications
would be appropriate.
Dr. Hall said he felt there..were too many.
Mr. Cline said a related problem involved publication of various
handbooks on individual countries for individual purposes.
Dr. Hall noted that duplication was not the main thrust
of what the Working Group was concerned with, but he thought the
conclusions with respect to duplication were related to the study of
intelligence production.
General Bennett said that he considered the main area of
duplication in current intelligence was in Washington which is the only
place where interest is worldwide. At other levels, the current
intelligence digests from Washington do not contain the amount of
detail needed by consumers responsible for particular areas of the
world. He felt there was a pressing requirement for local versions
of current intelligence publications.
Mr. Proctor said he would not say this was not right but
merely that the situation deserved another look.
Dr. Hall said the Working Group itself could recognize the
supplemental needs but that someone outside the intelligence community
might be less understanding.
The Chairman stated that the PRG would assemble an inventory
of current intelligence publications as basis for further Working
Group action.
7. India/Pakistan Crisis:
At the request of the Chairman, Mr. Marshall reported on the
India/Pakistan study for which he has responsibility. A task group
of representatives from State, Defense and CIA has been assembled and is
examining intelligence relating to the March-December 1971 period.
The report.will examine expressions of top-level needs and identify areas
in which responses seem to have been inadequate and focus attention there.
A master list of questions is being prepared to serve as the basis for
interviews with selected high-level decision-makers. Mr. Marshall
expects to have a draft ready by early May.
6
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : CIA-RDP84B00506R000100020023-8
 Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : A#76P 4B00506ROW 00020023-8
8. NSSM-69 Study:
Mr. Marshall said he expected a report on the adequacy of
intelligence support for NSSM-69 by mid-May. Lucas Fischer of 0MB is
chairman of the working group. He has examined the NSSM-69 documentation
and related intelligence inputs and defined a number of issues. Two
four-man panels, one on strategic forces and one on conventional forces,
are examining these issues and will submit a report by 21 April. Mr.
Marshall and Mr. Fischer will draft a report from the panel inputs.
Mr. Marshall noted that the panels include several men who had participated
in development of the intelligence inputs to NSSM-69 but others on the
panels had had no previous connection with the study.
9. The meeting adjourned at 1545 hours. No date for the next
session was set.
25X1A9A
'rhief, PRG/IC
25X1 A9Ai stri buti on:
orig - PRG files (NSCIC WG -2)
1 - Mr. Tweedy
1-
Approved For Release 2004/10/08 : CIA-?DP84B00506R000100020023-8