INTERVIEW BY AMBASSADOR TAYLOR BELCHER OF THE MURPHY COMMISSION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP86B00269R000600030015-6
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: C
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 15, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 22, 2003
• Sequence Number: 15
• Publication Date: October 8, 1974
• Content Type: MFR

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SUBJECT: Interview by Ambassador Taylor Belcher
of the Murphy Commission
Executive RecJ~stry
a/''a/---r
I met with Ambassador Taylor Belcher of the Commission on the
Organization of the Government for the Conduct of Foreign Policy--
the so-called Murphy Commission- -for two hours in my office on
7 October 1974. Ambassador Belcher is given to reminiscing and
citing personal experiences to illustrate his point of view, so we
didn' t cover as much ground as the duration of the interview might
indicate.
Ambassador Belcher had met with CIA officials in his pursuit of
material for his study on "Clandestine Operations and Covert Action, "
and they evidently gave him my name as a resource person.
Before we started talking I declared that I was disturbed by the
Commission's intent to publish its report as an unclassified document
with a possible classified annex and would respond accordingly. I
noted that until the last few weeks I considered even the name of the
40 Committee to be classified.
Ambassador Belcher said he was troubled by the same point, that he
had recently signed a new secrecy agreement, and that he found it
difficult to separate what he knew about covert operations from personal
experience and what he had gained from reading the overt press. He
declared that it was his intent to try to avoid classified material, not
to review classified documents if he could get sufficient material
without them, and to produce a report which would reflect his personal
views and opinions but be sourced to others. He visualized his report
as stressing methods and mechanisms of proposing, reviewing and
approving clandestine operations rather than substance. Our talk
centered on my responses to questions and proposals regarding
changes in the mechanics of approving and reviewing clandestine
operations.
The major point I made during our talk was that I saw no need to
change the machinery--that it provided opportunities for review and
dissent if participants exercised them. In short, the key to effective
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review was a matter of personalities rather than machinery, and
changing the machinery would not materially affect the outcome.
His questions and comments prompted this impression of his views:
Clandestine operations and covert action are necessary and
are here to stay. It is simply not reasonable to entertain
suggestions that they be abolished.
? Suggestions that Congressional representation be added to
the 40 Committee were not practical--they raise security
and Constitutional questions, as well as fail to ensure any
improvement of the review process.
? There seemed to be little support for the idea that if the
Executive Secretary of the 40 Committee were provided
with a larger staff it would improve things.
The DCI asked for teeth to enforce security, and it would
be a good idea if he got them and used them to "bite" an
offending individual or two who is responsible for leaking
classified information.
The Ambassador, his DCM and the Assistant and Deputy
Assistant Secretaries of State ought to be aware of a covert
operation in their geographic area; probably the country desk
chief should, too. He thought this could prevent "silly" actions--
even those that might be directed by the President and not
resisted by those immediately around him--which the Ambassador
and the DCM (who might be the highest career officer at a post
served by a political ambassador) would recognize as infeasible
or counterproductive.
? All of the accomplishments of covert action would not offset the
damage done by the recent publicity and exposure of the Chile
affair. (He agreed that he'd never seen a list of accomplish-
ments, only the failures or exposures; but upon reflection
agreed that Iran and Guatemala he considered positive achieve-
ments and he knew of other smaller ones from his own personal
experience. )
? He thought that 90% of covert action proposals came from the
field; "Which comes first, the chicken (policy) or the egg (action)?
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? Congressional review has not been very effective or pursued
with much vigor.
? His impression (having attended Special Group/ Counterinsurgency
meetings, which he mistakingly thought was the 40 Committee's
immediate predecessor, the 303 Committee) was that CIA some-
times sold a proposal by glib talking, avoiding some of the most
sensitive or controversial issues. Now that fewer meetings are
held there is even less opportunity for questioning. He allowed
that the fact that each participating agency had a written presen-
tation which it could review, ask the originator for interpre-
tations, clarifications and amplifications, and consider sans
any "glib talk" could be an improvement over a hurried verbal
commentary at a meeting.
Ambassador Belcher was friendly, personable and appeared to be
favorably disposed to CIA and the continuation of covert operations.
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L.-
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
bicz
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8 Oct. 1974
The Director may be interested in the
attached.
I am enclosing copies addressed to
for -h - -- ` ....., a ~UYY
o, I understand,
is oring t is for the DDO (and
who, I guess, gave Belcher my name).
I am also informing my colleagues
on the NSC.
on the IC Staff who
I
,
understand from is
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STAT
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