BREAKFAST MEETING WITH SENATOR WALLOP AND ANGELO CODEVILLA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP86M00886R001800050044-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 16
• Document Creation Date: December 21, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 29, 2009
• Sequence Number: 44
• Publication Date: August 17, 1984
• Content Type: MEMO

Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET
SUBJECT: (Optional)
Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and Angelo Codevilla
FROM:
DDI
EXTENSION
NO.
DDI-04768/84
GATE
TO: (Officer designation, room number, and
building)
DATE
OFFKER'S
COMMENTS (Number each comment to show from whom
EdLEIVED
FORWARDED
INITIALS
to whom. Draw a line across column offer each comment.)
1.
EXEC REGISTRY
_ L 3/ --c
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12-.
13.
14.
DCI
15.
EXEC
REG
ORM 610 EI
F,-79
GPO 1983 0 - 411-632
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
SECRET DDI-04768/84
AUG
994
NOTE FOR : Director of Central Intelligence
FROM Deputy Director for Intelligence
SUBJECT Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla
REFERENCE: Your query about paragraph four of the memo
describing the 31 July breakfast meeting with
Senator Wallop and Angelo Codevilla (Attachment 2)
1. I don't believe there are any misunderstandings about
the importance of Soviet active measures and propaganda
deceptions, or their role in our deception conference.
2. I Idid want the Senator to appreciate,
however, that the focus of the conference is intended to be more
comprehensive than that which would be afforded by examining only
and that the conference is especially
concerned with ovie eceptions specifically targeted against
the intelligence community.
3. Active measures will be covered at our HUMINT session on
Thursday morning, and the concept was explicitly included in the
working definition of deception sent to all conference
participants (Attachment 1). This definition, incidentally, was
developed as a more succinct version of that being used in
NIE 11-11.
fobert M. Gates
Attachments:
1 - Working definition of deception sent to conference
participants
2 - Your note of 10 August concerning the breakfast meeting
with Senator Wallop
THIS MEMORANDUM IS CLASSIFIED CL BY SIGNER
SECRET IN ITS ENTIRETY DECL OADR
SECRET
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
SECRET
SUBJECT: Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla
Original - Addressee (w/atts)
1 - DDI (w/atts)
1 - EXEC REGISTRY
1 - NIO/SP (w/atts)
1 - C/DDAC (w/atts)
1 - CRES Chrono (wo/atts)
1 - FICG Chrono (w/atts)
1 - FICG Subject (w/atts)
DI/CRES/FICG~ I (17 August 1984)
-2-
SECRET
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
Cl.M C 1
WORKING DEFINITION
Deception refers to a Soviet action, or set of actions,
intended to create or peroetuate false perceptions with the aim
of influencing US policies, plans, or actions to the advantage of
the USSR. We are primarily interested in Soviet activities which
are directed at US human and technical collection systems, and
which are intended to lead US intelligence to erroneous
conclusions. We are also concerned with activities which appear
purposefully ambiguous, go beyond simple denial measures, and may
be intended to compound the uncertainties in our assessments; and
with active measures operations which have the effect of eroding
policymakers' confidence in our intelligence judgments.
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
2 DDCI
3 EXDIR
EXECUTIVE SECRETARIAT
ROUTING SLIP
1 DO
4'D/ICS
5 DDI
6 DDA
12 Compt
13 D/Per!
19
ES
20
17 AO/DCI
18 C/IPD/OIS
21
22
SUSPENSE
oat )
ate
X--W
tqLA U5
`-
10 August 1984
Da>
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
Executive Registry
84- 6031
10 August 1984
NOTE FOR: DDI
FROM: DCI
What do you make of this? I certainly
don't think that, as paragraph four seems
to indicate was done, the active measures
and propaganda deception can be ruled out
of our area of concern.
Wi Itfz -J Casey
Attachment:
Memo for the Record,
dtd 2 August 84,
Subject: Breakfast
Meeting with Senator
Wallop and Angelo
Codevilla
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET
SUBJECT: (Optional)
Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and Angelo Codevilla
FROM
C/FICG/CRES/DI EXTENSION NO DDI-04466/84
3E47 Hqs.
DATE
2 August 1984
TO: (Officer designation, room number, and
DATE
building)
OFFICER'S
COMMENTS (Number each comment to show from whom
RECEIVED FORWARDED
INITIALS
to whom. Draw a line across column after each comment.)
2
3.
4.
7.
10.
12.
13.
14.
0(:
1 s. -
-
- -
--
USE PREVIOUS
FORM 61 O
I_79 EDITIONS - / Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3 `~
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886R001800050044-3
04466/84
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
FROM Larry Gershwin, NIO/SP
C/DDAC
C/FICG/CRES
2 August 1984
SUBJECT: Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla F__]
1. On 31 July, the subject meeting was held in the
DCI's dining room to discuss several issues related to Soviet
intelligence denial and deception. The discussion that
ensued for 1-1/4 hours involved a constructive exchange of
views and information, and on the whole appeared to satisfy
our objective of communicating the many steps the Community
has taken during the past two years to improve, expand, and
institutionalize its analysis in this area.
2. We explained several matters, including the
following:
-the establishment of the DDAC, and its mission
to coordinate the work of the several new
groups in the Community, including those at
NSA, DIA, AF/INOA, and FICG; an extended
description of activities underway at and level
of expertise employed by NSA and DIA; and, the
relationship among the IPC, NIC, and DDAC.
-the establishment of FICG, including its size,
missions, and functions; its role within the DI
with regard to the cross-cutting research
issue; its involvement in studies like the
Integrated Damage Assessment and NIE 11-11;
and, a few examples of the types of papers on
FICG's production agenda (e.g., Soviet
Intelligence Analysis and the Soviet Satellite
Warning Program).
CLASSIFIED SECRET
IN ENTIRETY
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886R001800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
SECRET
DDI-04466/84
-the fact that the new Community groups are
directly represented in the NIE 11-11 process.
3. Senator Wallop and SSCI staffer Codevilla raised
several issues, including:
-the Bross Commission recommendation for 10
positions to be added to the NI0/FDIA. We
responded that the NIC was designed to be lean;
that being in an evolutionary phase it is too
early to determine whether the NIO needs
additional positions; and, that if new
positions are needed for denial and deception
(D&D) analysis they should be assigned to the
production offices of the Community's
analytical organizations.
-Soviet active measures, including
disinformation, as a major problem that
confronts the United States. They cited the
campaign by Velikov against the US strategic
defense initiative and on the ASAT talks as an
example of how well organized the Soviet effort
is, and asked how the Community was organized
to deal with the subject. We described the
mission of the State-chaired Active Measures
Working Group, suggested that they hear more
detail from members of that group, and while
admitting that DI analysis in the area was
limited, cited the draft IIM being prepared
under the aegis of Several
times Senator Wallop expressed the US policy
need for a quick-reaction capability, one that
could respond rapidly to statements like those
by Velikov. Necessary to this response, the
Senator believes, is the sharing of the essence
of the Community's information with the general
public as a key to countering the Soviets.
-the need to educate policymakers. The Senator
is concerned that now that the Community is
organized to produce D & D papers, the findings
will not reach those who need to be educated,
e.g., Congressman Long and the drafters of the
Democratic platform.
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 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
466/84
5. As we stood up, Codevilla, in an aside, noted he
viewed FICG's organizational position under the DDI as a
conflict of interest. He implied that FICG would not
question or challenge DI products owing to potential risks to
career development. We did not respond directly to this
point, but noted we felt constructive criticism would be
received within the family. And, we offered that in our view
the production (positive intelligence) side of the house was
the right place for deception analysis rather than within
counterintelligence; and, that by being in the production
directorate and organizationally separated from collection
programs, FICG is better able to assess deception issues.
6. There was no specific discussion of the SSCI's
proposal to establish a counterintelligence analysis center
in DIA--although we provided a thorough explanation of DIA's
current D&D effort overseen by DB-I--or of our
counterproposal to augment FICG by including analysts from
other agencies. Our intention was to emphasize the many
,,Community efforts already underway and to stress the role in
this regard of positive intelligence versus counterintelligence.
It is also noteworthy that there was very little discussion
about NIE 11-11. In sum, we probably made a positive
contribution, but are unsure if we led them to turn the
corner insofar as the markup is concerned.
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
64466/84
SUBJECT: Breakfast Meetin with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla
1 - DCI
1 - DDCI
1 - DDI
1 - ADDI
1 - D/OLL
1 - NI0/FDIA
1 - C/D
1 - ICS
1 - NIO/SP
1 - IPC Staff
1 - C/ACIS
1 - NI0/At Large (Hutchinson)
1 - CRES Chrono
1 - FICG Chrono
1 - FICG Subject
1 - C/CI Staff/DO
DI/CRES/FICG~
(2 August 1984)
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 ? ~. Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET
SUBJECT: (optional)
Breakfast Meet' with Senator Wallop and Angelo Codevilla
FROM:
C/FICG/CRES/DI
VCMNSION
NO.
DDI-04466/84
3E47 Hqs.
DATE
2 August 1984
TO: (Officer designation, room number, and
building)
DATE
OFFICER'S
COMMENTS (Number each comment to show from whom
RE VED
FORWARDED
INITIALS
to whom. Draw a line across column after each comment.)
1 DDI
2.
3.
4.
S.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
FOR
I-79M 610 EDs
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
SECRET) DDT-04466/84
2 August 1984
FROM Larry Gershwin, NIO/SP
C/DDAC
C/FICG/CRES
SUBJECT: Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla
1. On 31 July, the subject meeting was held in the
DCI's dining room to discuss several issues related to Soviet
intelligence denial and deception. The discussion that
ensued for 1-1/4 hours involved a constructive exchange of
views and information, and on the whole appeared to satisfy
our objective of communicating the many steps the Community
has taken during the past two years to improve, expand, and
institutionalize its analysis in this area.
2. We explained several matters, including the
following:
-the establishment of the DDAC, and its mission
to coordinate the work of the several new
groups in the Community, including those at
NSA, DIA, AF/INOA, and FICG; an extended
description of activities underway at and level
of expertise employed by NSA and DIA; and, the
relationship among the IPC, NIC, and DDAC.
-the establishment of FICG, including its size,
missions, and functions; its role within the DI
with regard to the cross-cutting research
issue; its involvement in studies like the
Integrated Damage Assessment and NIE 11-11;
and, a few examples of the types of papers on
FICG's production agenda (e.g., Soviet
Intelligence Analysis and the Soviet Satellite
Warning Program).
CLASSIFIED SECRET
IN ENTIRETY
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
p4466/84
-the fact that the new Community groups are
directly represented in the NIE 11-11 process.
3. Senator Wallop and SSCI staffer Codevilla raised
several issues, including:
-the Bross Commission recommendation for 10
positions to be added to the NI0/FDIA. We
responded that the NIC was designed to be lean;
that being in an evolutionary phase it is too
early to determine whether the NIO needs
additional positions; and, that if new
positions are needed for denial and deception
(D&D) analysis they should be assigned to the
production offices of the Community's
analytical organizations.
-Soviet active measures, including
disinformation, as a major problem that
confronts the United States. They cited the
campaign by Velikov against the US strategic
defense initiative and on the ASAT talks as an
example of how well organized the Soviet effort
is, and asked how the Community was organized
to deal with the subject. We described the
mission of the State-chaired Active Measures
Working Group, suggested that they hear more
detail from members of that group, and while
admitting that DI analysis in the area was
limited, cited the draft IIM bein prepared
under the aegis of Several
times Senator Wallop expressed the US policy
need for a quick-reaction capability, one that
could respond rapidly to statements like those
by Velikov. Necessary to this response, the
Senator believes, is the sharing of the essence
of the Community's information with the general
public as a key to countering the Soviets.
-the need to educate policymakers. The Senator
is concerned that now that the Community is
organized to produce D & D papers, the findings
will not reach those who need to be educated,
e.g., Congressman Long and the drafters of the
Democratic platform.
SECRET
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
04466/84
5. As we stood up, Codevilla, in an aside, noted he
viewed FICG's organizational position under the DDI as a
conflict of interest. He implied that FICG would not
question or challenge DI products owing to potential risks to
career development. We did not respond directly to this
point, but noted we felt constructive criticism would be
received within the family. And, we offered that in our view
the production (positive intelligence) side of the house was
the right place for deception analysis rather than within
counterintelligence; and, that by being in the production
directorate and organizationally separated from collection
programs, FICG is better able to assess deception issues.
6. There was no specific discussion of the SSCI's
proposal to establish a counterintelligence analysis center
in DIA--although we provided a thorough explanation of DIA's
current D&D effort overseen by DB-I--or of our
counterproposal to augment FICG by including analysts from
other agencies. Our intention was to emphasize the many
Community efforts already underway and to stress the role in
this regard of positive intelligence versus counterintelligence.
It is also noteworthy that there was very little discussion
about NIE 11-11. In sum, we probably made a positive
contribution, but are unsure if we led them to turn the
corner insofar as the markup is concerned.
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
 Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3
- 4466/84
SUBJECT: Breakfast Meeting with Senator Wallop and
Angelo Codevilla
1 - DCI
1 - DDCI
1 - DDI
1 - ADDI
1 - D/OLL
1 - NI0/FDIA
1 - C/DDAC
1 - ICS
1 - NIO/SP
1 - IPC Staff
1 - C/ACIS
1 - NI0/At Large (Hutchinson)
1 - CRES Chrono
1 - FICG Chrono
1 - FICG Subject
1 - C/CI Staff/DO
DI/CRES/FICGj
(2 August 1984)
Approved For Release 2009/02/19: CIA-RDP86M00886RO01800050044-3