AN UNLEASHING OF THE CIA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP88-01070R000100010004-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 14, 2007
• Sequence Number: 4
• Publication Date: December 26, 1981
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20015 656-4068
FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
PROGRAM Agronsky & Company STATION WDVM TV
December 26, 1981 7:00 PM
SUBJECT An U n l e a s h i n g of the C I A
Washington, DC
MARTIN AGRONSKY: Shocking observation, Carl. You say
that some of the people who are against the way the Poles are
chipping away at freedoms in Poland are chipping away at freedoms
in our country.
CARL ROWAN: Yes. Not in the same disastrous way. But
we have seen in this year an unleashing of the CIA into domestic
spying, which I think is something you had better watch. We have
the Attorney General of the United States demanding that federal
judges bend to what he calls the conservative tide. You have got
a situation where they are trying to wipe out, in all effects,
the Freedom of Information Act.
The way you keep your freedom is to stop these little
pieces of action before they become a mosaic.
AGRONSKY: Before George blows up into 15 little pieces,
you'd better let him respond.
GEORGE WILL: Not since Chicken Little has there been
such a preposterous analysis of the world.
Look, the Attorney General said that, in fact, courts
ought to recur to the constitutional limits of their branch of
government a little more often. If that threatens you, my good-
ness.
The CIA has not been a rogue elephant. We can live with
the CIA. We can't live with some of the so-called regulators.
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AGRONSKY: Carl isn't saying that it has been. He
doesn't want it to become.
ROWAN: Well, at one point it was a rogue elephant,
and they know it. And it almost destroyed the CIA. And I still
believe...
ROWAN: ...that the FBI and other agencies with a man-
date to operate in this country are doing well enough. We don't
need the CIA spying on Americans in America.
MEL ELFIN: That's not the issue. The issue here is
whether the people who are speaking about -- speaking out against
the repression in Poland are the very same people who are repres-
sing people's rights in this country. Are you including Lane
Kirkland and Arthur Goldberg? Are these the people you're talking
about?
ROWAN: Now hold on. I didn't say everybody speaking
out against it in Poland. I'm speaking out against it in Poland,
and I'm not out there to repress anybody's freedom. But a lot of
Americans are.
ROWAN: Whoever tells me that the CIA spies on Americans
or says it's the job of the Attorney General to go scold judges
and tell them they've got to bend to a conservative tide. This
is not American, to use one of your good old phrases.
SIDEY: Carl, you're only talking about half the equa-
tion. Think of all the freedom you've gotten through the deregu-
lation process that Reagan has started, the budget cuts, the tax
relief, all of those elements that...
[Confusion of voices]
ROWAN: Now you want me to cry for Christmas. Is that
ELFIN: I just -- there is a certain measure of change
in this country. But to say that the CIA has been unleashed on
domestic spying I think is a little rhetorical exaggeration in
this season.
ROWAN: I hope it is.
WILL: Carl, what we have is the CIA under a charter.
We have congressional...
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ROWAN: Under what charter, George?
WILL: Well, under the one the President signed. It's
not a statutory charter, but some things shouldn't be statutory.
You have oversight committees of Congress. Are you
saying that the oversight committees of Congress are so lax in
worrying about Rowan's rights that you're in jeopardy?
ROWAN: No. I'm saying that many members of the over-
sight committees of the Congress are worried about this. They
did not want what was first proposed. They aren't really happy
with this. But they couldn't stop the President from signing
that executive order.
AGRONSKY: May I stand with Carl on this to some ex-
tent. From the beginning, when it was first proposed that we
should have, indeed, what amounts now to the CIA, there was a
great concern, even among conservatives in this country and on
the Republican side of the aisle in both houses, that this CIA
should not be in a position to undertake domestic espionage.
And this new charter that is now proposed for the CIA does in-
deed grant that permission. And I think that is a trespass upon
our freedoms and presents a threat to our freedoms. I would
certainly agree with Carl on that.
SIDEY: It's considerably circumscribed.
AGRONSKY: Not adequately, in my opinion.
SIDEY: Well, that's debatable.
But, Martin, I submit this to you. On the one hand,
we want to contain the CIA or to restrain it more in this coun-
try; and on the other hand, we are demanding more of the CIA
than ever before. We want them more involved. We want more
information about what's going to happen in Poland.
AGRONSKY: We don't want it here. We want to know
what's happening in Poland.
ELFIN: But the question of freedom for the average
American, how it affects his life, is more -- his freedom is
more constrained by the threat of crime, in street crime, in
getting mugged and raped and attacked in the streets of the
United States, and burglarized, than it is by anything right
now that the CIA is proposing...
ROWAN: Yes. But, MeI, you see, that does not make
it right. The average person may think that, but I'll guaranty
you that the average Pole today will tell you that government
oppression and suppression override any of those fears that
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normally come to people's minds. And the only way you prevent
government oppression and suppression is to knock on the govern-
ment the moment it reaches out, the first time...
SIDEY: Are you suggesting this government is more
oppressive than the one...
ROWAN: Which government?
SIDEY: Reagan's government.
ROWAN: Oh, I'm not comparing government-by-government.
All I'm talking about is that this is the first government to
say, "Let the CI[A] spy in the United States."
WILL: On my list of 100 things that Americans should
fear in 1982, the 99th would be getting hit by the Goodyear blimp
and the 98th would be college presidents and the 97th would be
the CIA.
ROWAN: Well, George, that may be because you don't
think they're coming after you.
WILL: I don't.
SIDEY: I hope not.
AGRONSKY: Well that's the last word.
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