INTERVIEW WITH GUILLERMO UNGO

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP88-01070R000100100002-2
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 10
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 16, 2007
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: March 28, 1982
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20015 656-4068
February 28, 1982 12:30 PM
WRC TV
NBC Network
Interview with Guillermo Ungo
Washington, DC
BILL MONROE: Our guest today on Meet the Press is
Guillermo Ungo, President of the Democratic Revolutionary Front
of El Salvador. Mr. Ungo's organization, an umbrella group
based in Mexico, speaks for the left-wing guerrilla forces now
fighting the government in El Salvador. Ten years ago. Mr. Ungo
ran for Vice President of El Salvador on a ticket with Napoleon
Duarte as presidential candidate. The two men, but the military
blocked them from taking office.
Mr. Duarte, of course, is now President of El Salvador,
allied with the military. And Mr. Ungo is leading the struggle
against the Duarte government.
Mr. Ungo, why should Americans expect that if your
side wins in El Salvador, democracy and genuine elections would
result, considering that your people will not participate in
the March 28th elections, considering that in nearby Nicaragua
your Sandinista friends are putting off elections, and consider-
ing that the leadership of your guerrilla forces is heavly Com-
munist?
GUILLERMO UNGO: Well, we've had a struggle for the
last 50 years for democracy, for free elections. We have been
denied that right through fraud, through persecution, through
jail. So we have had endurance and going through elections
every two years. My party has participated in elections since
1958 until 1977. In 1978 we pulled out from elections with the
Christian Democratic Party that's now the government.
So I would say we have had more endurance than any
other democratic party, than any other people in America and
in Europe believing in elections, and we're fighting for that.
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Secondly, we're a very pluralistic coalition of dif-
ferent political forces. I am not a Communist. I don't intend
to become a Communist. In El Salvador, everybody's considered to
be an extremist. And that is why there is so much killing going
on. Even the American journalists are considered to be extremists
because they are telling the truth, and the truth is subversive
in El Salvador.
So, we have clearly stated that we believe in elections
and we want elections, but real, free elections. And that just
can be offered through a democratic broad-based government, which
we are calling for through negotiations.
MONROE: Well, Mr. Ungo, there are charges that you and
others who do have democratic credentials are nevertheless just
front men. And the fear is that if your side wins, the Communist
guerrilla leaders, who are mostly Communists, not people like
you, would control things and set up a government that would be
less than democratic.
UNGO: Well, that has been always a fear that has been
used to have military dictatorships in Latin America. That was
the excuse Somoza had, the excuse Pinochet has in Chile.
We are a broad coalition and we still want to have a
more pluralistic understanding with other sectors. So, that can
be taken care of through negotiations, to give guarantees for a
broad-based government where the guerrilla movement within the
Democratic Front are not controlling the government, but not to
be controlled by the high command of the army that doesn't believe
in democracy, but just believe in having a war against the people,
when everybody is subversive. Archbishop Romero that was assas-
sinated because of that.
MONROE: Thank you, Mr. Ungo.
Our reporters on Meet the Press today are Robin Lloyd
of NBC News, John P. Wallach of Hearst Newspapers, and regular
panelist Marvin Kalb of NBC News.
MONROE: We'll continue the questions for Guillermo
Ungo with Robin Lloyd.
ROBIN LLOYD: Mr. Ungo, the man who is generally con-
sidered to be the top guerrilla commander, the military man in
El Salvador, a man by the name of Caetano Carpio (?), recently
told NBC News, in an interview -- he said that Fidel Castro had
personally wished him well in the struggle. He said that he
admired the Cuban revolution greatly.
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Pro-Cuban remarks Iike these, what do they mean in terms
of the long-term political intentions of the Salvadoran left? Are
we seeing indications that the military commanders of the guer-
rillas, indeed, want another Cuba?
UNGO: It's very clear that we don't want another Cuba,
and that's not possible to have it, even for people that like
Castro. And also, to like Castro doesn't mean to follow Castro.
President Lopez Portillo has called himself a friend of Castro,
and also called himself a friend of the United States.
The international situation is very clear. And that's
why we, the democratic political parties, the democratic leaders,
played an important role. We are not in Eastern Europe. We are
in latin America and a real neighbor of the United States. We
cannot develop our country after a civil war without having good
relations with the United States.
We also have many friends, and very good friends, in
the Western Hemisphere. So I could say Mitterand is my friend
and I admire him.
So, that's an explanation on the different and plural-
istic solidarity we are receiving throughout all the world. And
that we want and we can do only a national change, an independent
revolution, and a very pluralistic one. So that's why we are
calling for negotiations, because we don't want to have an alter-
native based only on the Democratic Revolutionary Front, only on
the guerrilla groups, on the democratic groups that belong to the
front, but also democratic political, economic and social sectors
that don't belong to the front. Because that's the only way you
can push forward our country.
LLOYD: I think what concerns a lot of American people,
and certainly concerns the Reagan Administration, however, is
that El Salvador would become another Cuba, that there would be
a lot of Cuban advisers -- if you were to come into power, there
would be a lot of Cuban advisers, both military and technical,
that would be brought into El Salvador. Certainly, one can say
that has happened in Nicaragua. There are some 500 Soviet Bloc
advisers there and several thousand Cubans.
Would you do the same in El Salvador?
UNGO: Well, I have my doubts about Nicaragua. I think
in Nicaragua has some sort of pluralism they didn't have during
Somoza.
But anyway, we don't plan to copy the Nicaraguan model.
We are more pluralistic forces involved in this struggle. That
is not only military struggle, but it's political, it's interna-
tional. And we have many friends and many governments and poli-
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tical forces that are supporting a peaceful settlement. And we
are in sort of compromise, and they are also a sort of guaranty
for a nonaligned position with us, and also to have good rela-
tions with U.S. government, mainly because we are very much
obliged to the American people. They are showing a lot of human
concern regarding El Salvador and what's going on in the massa-
cres that have meant more than 3000 -- 30,000 people killed,
which in American terms will mean 1,400,000 people killed in
the United States. And we have half a million harmless people
displaced and refugees, which in American terms will mean more
than 23 million harmless people. And the American government
is helping for that.
JOHN WALLACH: Dr. Ungo, if the elections on March 28th
are so bad as you say they are, why are they receiving support
from the Archbishop of El Salvador, from the Council of Bishops,
from a dozen nations, including Great Britain, the Organization
of American States? If I can quote to you from what the Council
of Bishops said -- and they have not enthusiastically backed
these elections, but they've said that they will at least move
the country from a de facto government to a legal government, a
change which is basic for the development of the country.
Why do you oppose that constructive step?
UNGO: Well, first of all, because we are out of the
elections. We would be killed. Huh? We were in the hit list
published by the army, which is an institution of the government.
I don't want to have the same fate that the former president of
the front has, to be assassinated after being tortured.
All these people that are running elections are the
far right that doesn't believe in democracy. And so, elections
are just for them. And the Bishop has said different things.
WALLACE: But, Dr. Ungo, if I may interrupt. The
Washington Post, which is hardly a right-wing newspaper, said
yesterday that nothing says more of the apparent appeal of the
elections to the common people than the ferocity of the left's
attempt to spoil them by burning voting documents and threatening
voters with death.
Is your organization threatening voters and democratic
mayor, Christian Democratic mayors with death?
UNGO: No. The official position that we have is that
we don't want to go on in this war. So we want peace, and that's
why we call for negotiations.
The Salvadorian government and the American government
want to go on this war, disguised by elections. That is going
to be window-dressing to keep on intensifying the war. So the
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war goes on. But we are not fighting elections, because the
people doesn't have any concern or relations after 50 years of
having experienced rigged elections and persecution and go to
vote out of fear, out of threats. Because if they don't vote,
they may be jailed, they may be persecuted.
So we are not officially going against the elections,
because it's not a dinner for us.
MARVIN KALB: Mr. Ungo, you have said twice on this
program that you would like negotiation. Why don't you have
negotiations with the people who are now in charge in El Sal-
vador?
UNGO: Well, we have called for that. And not only
KALB: You have called for negotiations with President
Duarte and the junta?
UNGO: We made a peace proposal in the United Nations
General Assembly calling for negotiations, to have talks with
civilian and military members of government, as they choose.
And also, even presidents, like the President of Panama, offer
himself as a mediator to look for a negotiated settlement. The
only three factors are against negotiations: the American gov-
ernment, the Salvadorian far right, and the high command of the
army.
So the public, international public opinion, even the
Vatican, has been calling for negotiations...
KALB: I just want to understand if you are prepared
to sit down right now with the military and civilian junta in El
Salvador.
UNGO: Certainly.
You are not, however, prepared to participate in the
elections. You are, in fact, doing your best to block the elec-
tions.
UNGO: This cannot be called elections. We want to
have elections in El Salvador. We have had the endurance to go
to elections every two years, being persecuted, exciled, cheated,
and all of that, when everybody told one that you were -- one
was a fool, going through that rigged game.
So, what we want is guarantees for a democratic govern-
ment that will...
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KALB: Who would provide those guarantees?
UNGO: ...elections [unintelligible] to respect the
results of elections. Because we have had elections in Uruguay.
Huh? There have been elections in Bolivia. And the army doesn't
respect the results.
It's not only to have free elections. Right now there
are no conditions for free elections, unless the conditions to
fulfill the results of the elections.
KALB: But who would guaranty the election process, as
you see it?
UNGO: Just the democratic broad-based government.
KALB: That would include all of the people who are
currently either members of the El Salvador Communist Party or
Marxist-Leninists. Do you feel that there is anything in the
tradition of Leninism that allows for a free election?
UNGO: Well, we believe in democracy.
KALB: But do you feel that the people who are now part
of the united, unified revolutionary directorate, who run the
military arm, that those people, the five leaders, all of whom
are Marxist-Leninists, believe in a free election, what you're
talking about?
UNGO: Just because they have to fulfill the require-
ments of the people. You have Communist Parties in France and
in Italy and in all of Western Europe.
KALB: But they're not in charge. They're not in
charge.
UNGO: But they're important parties.
KALB: Yes, they are.
UNGO: They're important parties. If you believe in
democracy, you have to believe the government of the people, by
the people, and for the people.
KALB: I'm just trying to find out, sir, what gives you
the sense of confidence that people who come out of a Leninist
tradition, where in the history of that tradition have they al-
lowed for free elections, as you have defined them yourself?
UNGO: Because it's a public compromise, because the
people have fought for that from 50 years, and because the inter-
national situation -- huh? -- oblige to go for a government that
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is a broad-based government, that is a nonaligned government;
And because they need us and we are a guaranty, in that sense,
because we belong to the democratic sector and we have received
the solidarity all over Europe, all over Latin America, the
democratic and political forces. And there is no other chance
of survival in El Salvador but having a democratic government.
MONROE: Mr. Ungo, I'd like to ask you about your old
comrade Napoleon Duarte. He ran for president 10 years ago. You
ran on the same ticket with him for vice president. You were
political comrades.
The former U.S. Ambassador to El Salvador, Mr. White,
under the Carter Administration, and a critic of Reagan policy,
says that you have been factually wrong and morally unfair in
calling President Duarte a facade for repression. He says that
Duarte and some of this colleagues are authentic democrats com-
mitted to a new deal for your country.
How would you respond?
UNGO: Well, history has several lessons in this sense.
Marshal Petain was a war hero in France during the First World
War. And he was not a gangster. He was not a bad man. But
after Second World War, he was a traitor.
MONROE: Would you concede that Mr. Duarte probably is
convinced that what he is doing now is for the good of El Salva-
dor and will eventually lead to a democratic government?
UNGO: I don't think he's so much convinced now as one
year before.
LLOYD: One of the things that I think would help clar-
ify some of the points we've been mentioning is exactly how much
power you have within the leftist coalition. There are some who
would say that you are being used by the left simply to convince
liberal Western European governments that the Salvadoran left
should be supported.
Can you comment on that?
UNGO: Well, I can talk freely about this and can com-
ply what I am talking about. I am talking about negotiations.
I am talking about dialogue. And in the government, just the
other way around is going on. Duarte cannot talk with us because
the army doesn't let him. They kick him out if he does. He
doesn't speak the language that he was speaking two years ago.
They made a deal with the army saying that the only chance to
keep on the [unintelligible] was to have a broad-based govern-
ment. And they have been [unintelligible] the people, even the
democratic military people, like Colonel Majano (?), and all the
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people follow -- all the Majano followers.
So I think we are talking more politically and less
ideologically. And the guerrilla movement is becoming more
mature and following more the same line that we have. And which
is the other side? It's going just the other way.
LLOYD: But you yourself have said that you are not a
Communist. Yet, Caetano Carpio admits -- and he is unquestion-
ably the top guerrilla leader in El Salvador fighting. He has
said he is a Marxist and he has admitted great admiration for
Fidel Castro.
What I want to know is exactly what kind of relation-
ship you have with him, whether you have had long talks with him
and you feel that you have a lot of influence with him.
UNGO: We have political relations. And the United
States has political relations with China. And this is not new.
The Christian Democrats [unintelligible] were in a coalition since
1972 with the Communists, because we all meet together in order
to have a democratic -- a democratic opening in El Salvador, which
we haven't had, at least for the last 50 years. It's a regime
based on oppression, on [unintelligible], and in force.
WALLACH: Dr. Ungo, you say, "I am talking about nego-
tiations. I am talking about dialogue." You say you're talking
about elections. Are you not talking about reconstituting the
armed forces, having a piece of the government before there are
any elections? Your front doesn't even use the term elections.
It used the term plebiscite. Isn't hat what you're demanding, a
piece of the action before there are any elections?
UNGO: We call it plebiscite, but we also talk about
elections. We also talk about elections.
WALLACH: Once you are assured that you will have a
place in the government.
UNGO: Certainly. And why not? Why the United States
think that we won't have to negotiate at table what we cannot
win? It's obviously that we represent an important part of the
Salvadorian people.
WALLACH: Let me follow up, if I may. Dr. Ungo...
UNGO: We have a share in the government, anyway,
through elections or through negotiations.
WALLACH: You say that your front is not threatening
anyone with assassination, any leaders, any voters. I have in
front of me a letter which was sent by the Popular Liberation
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Front to eight Christian Democratic mayors who are helping to
organize those elections in El Salvador. The letter says, "Our
principal objective of writing you is to warn you that we shall
be watching your performance and the position you occupy, and
from it will depend whether you are judged and declared an enemy
or following the just cause that we are expediting. It will be
the people who at the proper time will give you what you de-
serve."
Dr. Ungo, is that not an assassination threat?
UNGO: It's a threat. But I don't believe it belongs
to the FMLN or to the FPL.
WALLACH: It's signed by the Popular Liberation Force.
UNGO: Yes. Many, many of these threats were signed
by guerrilla forces, and now we have used that Mayor Rolla (?),
for example, belonging to the Army, was involved in the kid-
nappings of the millionaires. We have been accusted to the
tricks these kind of governments have played for many years in
El Salvador.
KALB: President Reagan made a major speech this past
week affecting the whole Caribbean Basin and Central America.
You have already criticized the effort of the United States to
try to put some emphasis upon economic development in that area.
But if you are so concerned about the people in El Salvador, why
don't you support an effort that tries to improve the lot of your
peop I e?
UNGO: Well, I made some criticism mainly on the mili-
tary aid.
KALB: Do you support the economic aid?
UNGO: It's a waste of money. Just in capital flight
in the last two years has been more than $800 million. Just the
drop in exports in the last two years has been $400 million. So
the American taxpayer is wasting his money in this case because
it doesn't go to the real problem. It doesn't go to solve --
it doesn't go to achieve peace and stability. So that money
goes to the drain.
KALB: Isn't it part of the effort of the front that
you lead, to a degree, to create that kind of internal instabi-
lity and chaos that would further the aims of what you call the
revolution?
UNGO: We haven't caused it. We haven't caused it.
We didn't cause this war, as the United States didn't cause the
Second World War. It was the fascist regime that caused it.
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And we didn't cause this. It has been a system that has been
exploiting the people and has to rely more and more on violence.
So, I don't see what's wrong to have a right of insur-
rection recognized in all constitutions. And now the people is
exercising that, and only for survival reasons. If I were staying
at home, I will -- what will happen to me? They will drag me out,
as has been seen by so many journalists, and I will be killed,
anyway, because I am a suspect.
MONROE: Thank you, Mr. Ungo, for being with us today
on Meet the Press.
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