FULL TEXT: NICARAGUA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP88-01070R000100640005-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 15
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 21, 2007
• Sequence Number: 5
• Publication Date: April 5, 1983
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 656-4068
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Nightline
STATION WJLA-TV
ABC Network
DATE April 4, 1983 11:30 PM CITY Washington, DC
Full Text: Nicaragua
TED KOPPPEL: Your tax dollars may be supporting a war
that's in the making.
The people on the other side don't call it a war, they
call it a U.S. invasion.
The Reagan Administration won't talk about it, but it
is being talked about in Congress where some charge that U.S.
law is being violated. It's happening in Nicaragua.
Tonight, we'll talk live with the Nicaraguan Foreign
Minister, with the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, and
with a Nicaraguan exile leader in Miami.
[Up theme music]
Good evening.
There is a law which Congress passed which prohibits
U.S. military support to any group or individual for the
purpose of overthrowing the government of Nicaragua. The law
was framed that way precisely because the Reagan Administration
has been quite open about its hostility toward the pro-Marxist
government of Nicaragua.
Congress, it appears, was trying to avoid exactly what
now seems to be happening.
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Senator Moynihan of New York and Senator Leahy of
Vermont have both accused the Reagan Administration of breaking
that law. Since both are members of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, the charges carry particular weight. And there is
independent evidence to support those charges.
Peter Torbnjoernsson, for example, is a free-lance
Swedish journalist cameraman. He recently returned after two
weeks with a group of the so-called Contras, Nicaraguans who
are fighting against the government of their country from bases
in Honduras.
Earlier today, we spoke via satellite to Mr. Torbn-
joernsson, in Stockholm. The film you will see was shot by
him.
PETER TORBNJOERNSSON: I have spoken to a lot of
Contras soldiers inside Nicaragua. They're all very grateful
for the aid that is coming from the United States. They say
that it's coming in the form of dollars, but also in the form
of arms and in form of communication support and advices from
the United States. A lot of the Contras that have been in the
Army for a long time -- they have been trained by American
advisers inside training camps in Honduras.
KOPPEL: When you talk about weapons, when you talk
about advisers, give me an idea of what the scope of this is.
TORBNJOERNSSON: They have airplanes in Honduras.
They have radio equipment, which is quite advanced, and they
also have a lot of -- much more sophisticated weapons.
KOPPEL: What kind of weapons?
TORBNJOERNSSON: Like mortars -- mortars, and RPGs,
which is a kind of rocket rifle, and machine guns.
KOPPEL: When you talk about air support, what kind of
air support?
TORBNJOERNSSON: I know for sure that they have
helicopters. The kind of airplanes they have, I don't know.
Now, the plan is -- the plan is to liberate the
northern part -- what they call liberate -- the northern part
of Nicaragua and to have the airplanes come in with new
weapons, with new ammunition, and with more heavy artillery.
KOPPEL: You talked about American advisers, about
receiving intelligence help from the Americans. Can you be a
little more specific?
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TORBNJOERNSSON: I know for sure that in these
training bases -- and there have been, like, eight to ten bases
training people in Honduras -- and at least on every base there
have been two American advisers. In some, there have been up
to five, maybe more.
KOPPEL: Is it your sense that these were people who
were sent over by the U.S. government, or are they the "Soldier
of Fortune" types who sometimes can just be hired by the month,
by the year for an assignment without having any connection
with the government?
TORBJOERNSSON: My very strong impression is that
there is a secret plan sponsored by the U.S. government,
probably by the CIA, which is now taking form and exploding
inside Nicaragua, and I think the same interests that are
responsible for this plan and for -- and who have stimulated
the upcoming civil war in Nicaragua are also responsible for
the American -- the presence of the American advisers in
Honduras.
KOPPEL: You've been very careful and very precise in
your use of language, so when you say something like "the
upcoming civil war," it makes my ears perk up a little bit. On
what basis do you say "the upcoming civil war"? It's one thing
to have harassment activities along the Honduran-Nicaraguan
border -- to talk of an "upcoming civil war" is something else
again.
TORBJOERNSSON: My impression is that most, or a lot
of the bases in Honduras have been empited, and that the
Contras now are inside Nicaragua. They're recruiting people
there. They're fighting there. The plan is to cut off the big
-- the main roads to the big cities in the north of Nicaragua,
and their plans are very short-term. They say that "we will
make the final offensive in July." Some people also say June,
May. And I think it's a deep tragedy coming up in Nicaragua
which will cost tens of thousands of people their lives.
KOPPEL: Do the Contras, the leaders of the Contras,
have any sense of the debate that is going on in this country
over the continuing role or, indeed, the existing role of the
U.S. government and what is going on there?
TORBJOERNSSON: It's a very strange organization, I
would say. There's a military part which is -- has its main
headquarters in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. They receive the aid,
the instructions, and they work with the United States. And,
they haven't been very much affected by the debate in the
Congress and the Senate, obviously.
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But, then, there is a political section of the
Contras. They live in Miami, generally, and they are very much
aware of the debate that is going on in the United States.
KOPPEL: Later in this broadcast we'll be talking live
with one of the Nicaraguan exile leaders in Miami. But first,
our own correspondent, John Cuenanos, has been inside Nicara-
gua, and he filed this report on the conflict from the per-
spective of the Sandinista side.
JOHN CUENANOS: It is early morning in the province of
Jalapa, northern Nicaragua, near the Honduran border. Amid a
tranquil setting, armed Sandinista soldiers control the
foothills and major roads. These are some of the thousands of
army troops and reserves that have been called to Northern
Nicaragua amid reports of a major invasion by right-wing
Nicaraguan exiles, a counterrevolution the Sandinistas say is
supported by the U.S. government.
FOREIGN MINISTER REVEREND MIGUEL DESCOTO: They
conceived it. They are directing it. They are financing it,
and the United States is also arming it.
CUENANOS: But aside from the massing of Sandinista
soldiers, there is little evidence of a real war here.
Instead, there are signs of isolated guerrilla offensives, a
smoldering tobacco field in one province; in another, a family
of refugees running not from a rebel attack, but from the fear
of one.
Since early this year, an estimated 5,000 counterrevo-
lutionaries, or Contras, have crossed over from bases in
Honduras to six different regions in Nicaragua. A total of
about 300 soldiers, rebels and civilians have been killed. The
Contras, who are heavily outnumbered by the Sandinista forces,
have been unable to take control of any towns or mount sus-
tained drives against Nicaraguan troops.
The guerrillas hit-and-run tactics have made the
combat all but invisible. As proof of U.S. support for the
Contras, the Sandinistas point to weapons and ammunition taken
from the rebels, arms and uniforms, the Sandinistas claim, were
supplied by the U.S.
So far, it appears just the threat of war has bene-
fitted both sides in the conflict. The counterrvolutionaries
have gained international recognition, and the Sandinistas seem
to have rallied their base of support, the poor in Nicaragua,
and that includes most of the people here.
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In the end, despite all the talk of war, it appears
the sun is not about to set on the Sandinista revolutionary
movement. It remains strong here. There may be some dis-
sention, but the people of Nicaragua are by no means rushing to
join the ranks of the counterrevolutionaries.
In the words of a prominent local businessman here,
"We may be ready for a change in the way government behaves,
but, despite what the U.S. wants, we're not ready for another
change in government itself."
John Cuenanos, for Nightline, Managua, Nicaragua.
KOPPEL: When we return, we'll talk live with a
Nicaraguan exile leader in Miami, and with the Foreign Minister
of Nicaragua.
Joining us live now from Buenos Aires is the Reverend
Miguel Descoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua.
Mr. Descoto, from that last report we just saw, it
seems hard to believe that there is a serious attack being
launched against your country.
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: Well, if you think that in
order to be serious it has to be the type of an attack that can
really -- that signifies a threat for the continuation of the
Sandinista government, then, obviously, this is not anything so
big.
But, when you're talking about invasion of several
thousands of people into another country, this is something
very serious, especially when this invasion is orchestrated, is
organized, is financed, and armed, as I've said before, by the
greatest power in the world against Nicaragua, we think it's
very, very serious.
Although, we don't mean by that even to imply that
there is any possibility of them being able to achieve their
goal.
KOPPEL: One has to -- one has to raise the question,
Mr. Descoto, that if, as you put it, the greatest power in the
world were to put its mind to overthrowing the government of a
relatively weak country, such as Nicaragua, why it is that that
would be such a fruitless venture?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: Because there are bridles,
as you well know, that even Mr. Reagan, with all his might, is
not able to do everything that he would like to do. Why were
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they not able to defeat -- I'm talking about a few years back,
quite a few years back -- Sandino [?] -- how come they were not
able to win in Vietnam?
They can't always do everything that they would like
to do. They have to be worried about certain constraints, and
about -- they have to be worried about the American people, in
general. They have to worry about Congress. They have to
worry about international public opinion.
KOPPEL: But, in terms of the military threat itself,
you are not worried?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: We are not. Except, of
course, we are very much concerned because there are many
innocent people dying in the process.
KOPPEL: Let me, then, turn to one of our other
guests. With us now, live from our affiliate, WPLG in Miami,
is Edgar Chamorro, a member of the political directorate of the
Nicaraguan Democratic Force, an exile group that claims to have
six to seven thousand fighting in Nicaragua today.
You've heard what the Foreign Minister has to say. He
doesn't seem to take your threat very seriously.
EDGAR CHAMORRO: Well, if he doesn't take it serious-
ly, it is because he's playing some kind of a -- it's a
technical, tactical defensive maneuver. We have the capabil-
ity. What we are really planning is to bring Nicaragua -- the
Nicaraguan government -- to create the conditions so that we
have a truly democratic government.
KOPPEL: But you plan to do that by force.
CHAMORRO: Well, we want to let them know that the
Nicaraguan people is tired of the betrayal, of all the terror,
of the police state they're creating in Nicaragua, of the
extermination of the Indians, the Mestizo Indians in the
northern area of Nicaragua; that we are fed-up with all their
rhetoric, their lies. They betrayed the revolution. The
revolution was a broad coalition front that had promised a
democratic, pluralistic society, not all the terror, police
state they have created with all the Marxist-Leninist indoc-
trination of the youth, and all the persecution of the church,
all the 4000 prisoners, all the killings, like Jorge
Salazar, and all the political dissidents, repressed, is silent
La Prenza haven't been out for a week. You know, silencing
people -- there -- more and more Nicaraguans are leaving -- are
leaving the country. Perhaps 300,000 Nicaraguans are away.
And then one thing, if they are so -- if they are not
afraid, why did -- why don't we hold elections? Why don't give
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elections for the Nicaraguan people? We can finally vote. We
haven't voted.
KOPPEL: I -- I'll put that question to Mr. Descoto in
just a moment, but let me ask you one other question.
How do you respond to what he said about the "bridle,"
as he put it, that is on the Reagan Administration that will
limit the kind of support you and -- and your people can expect
from the United States?
CHAMORRO: I -- I don't understand the word you use.
KOPPEL: Bridle is the kind of thing you put on a
horse, you -- you know, the restraining leather straps and the
metal bit in the mouth.
CHAMORRO: And who's putting that on whom?
KOPPEL: The Congress, with its laws, is putting on
the Reagan Administration. There -- there is a specific law
that prohibits any American assistance to you and your sup-
porters for the purpose of overthrowing the government in
Managua.
CHAMORRO: Well, we are not overthrowing the govern-
ment of Managua. Our plans are not to overthrow. The people
of Nicaragua has an internal problem. They might end up
overthrowing them. But we, as a movement -- our movement is --
is not -- we don't have that plan. We have the plan to create
or to bring the condition so that we are a democratic, a true
revolution.
Let's go back to June 23rd, 1979, when we agreed to
the overthrow of Somoza, number one. Number two . . . .
KOPPEL: Mr. Chamorro, forgive me. I -- I'm afraid
the restrictions of this program are such that we just don't
have the time to go into all of that.
Let me go to Mr. Descoto for a moment.
The chances of an uprising in your country -- it
happened once. Why can't it happen again?
Mr. Descoto?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: I'm not able to hear you
anymore. I didn't hear what Mr. Chamorro said either.
KOPPEL: Well, I'm sorry. Then we'll have to go back
to Mr. Chamorro. You have an opportunity after all.
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What makes you think, Mr. Chamorro, that there will be
another uprising in the country? There has been no evidence of
it in Managua.
CHAMORRO: Well, our fighting is not so far in the
populated areas of the Pacific. Our fighting has been in the
northern area where we have the great support. I would like to
respond to this -- the point that Mr. Descoto made that we --we
don't have the popular support.
It's amazing. I mean, one of the most surprising
things is this -- popular support of the FDN, Democratic
Forces, are found in the northern area around Matagalpa,
Jinotega, Neasegovia[?], Esteli, the Mestizo Coast[?], you
know, So I --I think we do have the support, and we have the
people willing, you know, to make, again, an insurrection.
KOPPEL: All right, Mr. Chamorro, let's take a break
right now, since Mr. Descoto can't hear you right now.
Hopefully we can get our technical problems resolved.
What is the extent of the U.S. role in Nicaragua?
Well, when we return we'll discuss that question with the U.S.
Ambassador to the United Nations, Jeane Kirkpatrick.
With us now live from our studios in New York is Jeane
Kirpatrick, the Ambassador from the United States to the United
Nations.
Mrs. Kirkpatrick, I'm sorry to belabor you at this
point but you know it has to be asked. If indeed it is against
the law, why then does there seem to be so much evidence that
suggests that the United States government is breaking the law
with regard to giving assistance to those who are, in one form
or another, fighting some kind of an action against the
Sandinista government in Nicaragua?
AMBASSADOR JEANE KIRKPATRICK: But, of course, the
United States government isn't breaking the law, and the United
States government wouldn't break the law, and I think that's
perfectly clear.
KOPPEL: Well, then let's -- let's ....
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: I also think that's a really
serious charge, if I may say so.
KOPPEL: Well, then, let me read you, at least, a
segment from the law here. The law "prohibits U.S. military
support," and I'm quoting now, "to any group or individual not
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a part of the country's armed forces for the purpose of
overthrowing the government of Nicaragua, or provoking a
military exchange between Nicaragua and Honduras."
Now, we have seen some evidence. We have heard of
other evidence, of U.S. support, both financial and military,
to the forces called the Contras in Honduras who seem to be
determined to, and who, indeed, have been followed into
Nicaragua using American weapons, or weapons supplied by the
United States. I agree with you it's a serious charge, but how
do you respond to the evidence that you've seen and heard?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: I think that the evidence
that we've seen and heard has, quite frankly, nothing to do
with the law. Whatever we're doing inside -- whatever support
we are offering -- and I didn't say we're offering any -- but
if we are offering any support to anyone in Nicaragua, it's
with the permission of the Congress, and it's certainly not
against any law in the United States.
KOPPEL: That particular -- that particular law,
Madame Ambassador, as I read it to you, seemed so precise that
it's hard -- maybe you can explain to me how it is that if we
are giving any assistance at all, be it monetary or. . . .
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: Mr. Koppel, first of all, I'm
sure you know enough about American government to know that if
we're spending any money -- and to give them any help we would
have to be spending some money -- and if we're spending any
money, it's the Congress who's appropriated the money.
KOPPEL: And I also know enough about the law, Mrs.
Kirkpatrick, to know that there are discretionary funds. And
we're not talking about huge sums here. I mean, certainly for
a private individual we are, but not by government standards.
We're talking 20, 30 million dollars.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: Mr. Koppel, I think the law
that you just read talks about spending any monies for the
purpose of overthrowing the government in Nicaragua, or
bringing about a war between Nicaragua and Honduras.
KOPPEL: Right.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: And I can assure you that
the last thing our government would want is a war between
Nicaragua and Honduras. And I can assure you also that the U.S.
government isn't spending any money trying to overthrow the
government of Nicaragua.
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They -- there are various other possibilities, of
course. The fact is that the Nicaraguan government has for
nearly three years now, virtually since it came to power, been
engaged in breaking its promises to the Nicaraguan people, and
to the OAS for free elections and internal reconciliation, and
it's been -- it's been repressing its own people progressively,
and it's been arming, training and directing from its own
territory a very large guerrilla effort, a guerrilla war
against the government of El Salvador, and terrorist acts
against the the government of Honduras and, to some extent
also, threats to Costa Rica as well.
The United States has tried very hard -- the whole
U.S. government has tried very hard -- to persuade the govern-
ment of Nicaragua to live at peace with its neighbors. The
government of Honduras has, government of El Salvador has, the
government of Costa Rica has. They've tried very hard to
persuade the government of Nicaragua to end the export of arms
into the area, the importation of arms into the area, and the
export across national lines. They've tried to persuade the
government of Nicaragua to end the importation and use of
foreign advisers. And the government of Nicaragua has contin-
ued in an absolutely relentless way to support foment and
support and direct internal wars against its neighbors.
KOPPEL: Mrs. Kirkpatrick, if you'll forgive me, I
don't think the issue at the moment is whether these are
particularly admirable people. They may indeed be a bunch of
scoundrels, but the U.S. law does not address that particular
issue.
I wonder if you can explain to me under what guise, if
indeed it is not for the purpose of overthrowing the government
-- under what guise, then, is the U.S. government supporting
the Contras in their military forays into Nicaragua.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: Well, first of all, I didn't
say the United States was supporting the Contras.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: Some other people have said
the United States was supporting the Contras.
KOPPEL: Among them, two members of the Senate
Intelligence Committee.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: I would simply like to
I would simply like to say that I feel quite sure the
United States is not breaking -- the government is not breaking
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any law. Any one of its own laws. The fact is that the United
States government would like very much, though, to persuade the
government of Nicaragua to cease supporting guerrilla war
against its neighbors. It would like very much to persuade the
government of Nicaragua to negotiate a settlement -- a peace in
the area, to seek a political solution, in fact, to the
problems of the region, and not to continue to foment guerrilla
war against its neighbors.
It would also like to persuade the government of
Nicaragua, in fact, to cease repression of the people in
Nicaragua.
Now, those kinds of persuasions that can be tried with
a government -- and one of the kinds of persuasions that can be
tried to persuade a government to go to negotiation in princi-
ple is various kinds of pressure.
KOPPEL: Among -- among them military?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: It could be -- could be. In
principle, it could be.
If you have economic pressure and it fails, and you
have moral pressure and it fails, and you have political
pressure and it fails because you've got a repressive regime
that's progressively totalitarian in character, then, in fact,
the United States might conceivably decide that it would like
to enhance the pressure on the government of Nicaragua for the
purpose of attempting to persuade the government of Nicaragua
to negotiate peace in the region, and to cease fomenting and
making civil war against its neighbors.
KOPPEL: Mrs. Kirkpatrick, you are familiar with the
fact that the Swedish journalist we had on today is not alone.
There have been several other journalists who have just come
back from that area. They're all reporting essentially the
same thing. Someone from "Time." Someone from CBS. There
have been people from the "Washington Post," and they are all
coming back, and they are all not simply under the impression
-- they're prepared to testify to the fact that the United
States is financially -- and in terms of equipment, and in
terms of advice -- helping these people, the Contras, in their
actions against Nicaragua.
Now, if it is possible to avoid ambiguity, could you
just respond by saying, if you're saying we're not breaking the
law, that these things are not happening. Can you deny that?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: No, no, no, not at all. What
I will respond by saying, and very directly, without any
ambiguity at all, is that the United States government is not
engaged in an effort to overthrow the government of Nicaragua.
There's nothing ambiguous about what I'm saying about that.
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KOPPEL: Let me jump in for just one moment to warn
our affiliate -- and there's nothing ambiguous about this --I'm
afraid we're running over at the moment, and we're going to run
over for a few moments so we can at least try to resolve this
issue.
Mrs. Kirkpatrick, then, perhaps you would be good
enough to -- to draw that distinction for me. The U.S.
government, by inference, you seem to be saying, or by implica-
tion, you seem to be saying, is assisting the Contras, but not
to the end of overthrowing the government. Is that the
distinction?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: Mr. Koppel, you know that
it's the policy of the U.S. government and its officials not to
comment either affirmatively or negatively on that question.
I'm saying, however, that there is a significant
distinction between assisting persons who might be harassing a
government in the effort to bring them to elections and
negotiations and an effort to persuade them to cease making war
on their neighbors, and the effort to overthrow the government.
Now those are different activities, in fact.
KOPPEL: All right. So as I understand you, then, it
is the distinction between overthrowing the government and
convincing a government to have elections. So this is all part
of encouraging the electoral process, then?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: I didn't say that. I said
that's a distinction that is significant. It's also, it you
know, can very well be part of a process of encouraging
negotiations. We would like very much to see the government of
Nicaragua negotiate with its neighbors an end to all conflicts
in that region, an end to the importation of arms, an end to
the use of foreign advisers and, above all, a democratic
settlement for the region.
KOPPEL: All right.
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: That is our goal in Nicara-
KOPPEL: Mrs. Kirkpatrick, as you know, because of
technical problems we had some trouble getting Foreign Minister
Descoto of Nicaragua on before. You have indicated that you
would prefer not to be on on the same segment with him. I'm
going to honor that, but we will be coming back in just a
moment to give him an opportunity to make some remarks also.
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Thank you very much for your participation. We'll be
back in just a moment.
Joining us once against now from Buenos Aires, the
Foreign Minister of Nicaragua, Mr. Miguel Descoto.
Mr. Descoto, you heard what Ambassador Kirkpatrick had
to say. The U.S. government denies that it is engaged in any
efforts to overthrow your government, but it clearly would like
to encourage your government to hold elections, and that
doesn't seem like such a bad goal. Why don't you?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: Well, I don't think,
really, that that is the issue tonight -- whether or not we
have elections.
The issue is whether or not the United States is in
fact engaging or waging a war against Nicaragua. Isn't that
the issue?
KOPPEL: Well, Ambassador Kirkpatrick -- you asked a
question, so let me respond to it.
Ambassador Kirkpatrick has -- has flatly denied that
there is a war against Nicaragua, or that, indeed, the U.S.
government is encouraging anyone to overthrow your government.
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: If you really analyze what
she said, I think it is very clear that she even -- she was
very confused. She was very nervous, and she actually ended up
admitting and then trying to go back and say that she had not
admitted it, and then saying that in principle the United
States could do it, forgetting, as a matter of fact, that they
are internal laws.
And, besides, I don't care so much about internal
laws. There are principles of international law. There is a
Charter of the United Nations. The United States is a member.
It is not only a member of the United Nations, it is a member
of the Security Council. It is obliged to respect those
principles.
If the United States has any quarrel with Nicaragua,
there are ways and means that it can bring the charges before
the international community, before the United Nations.
KOPPEL: Mr. Descoto, since you -- since you heard
what Ambassador Kirkpatrick said, you also know that she drew
the same fine distinction on the law that you are drawing right
now with regard to Nicaragua's activities insofar as encourag-
ing the fighting in El Salvador is concerned.
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14
If you're so worried about that kind of international
activity, why does not your country cease it?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: Well, first of all, let me
tell you that Salvador is an independent country. If Salvador
ever felt that we were infringing any law, it is incumbent upon
El Salvador to bring their case before the Security Council.
They have never done so. We have pled our case, and we have
demonstrated.
The United States, as you know well, produced that
famous, or infamous, if you want, "White Paper," which Mr.
Eagleburger [?] tried to peddle and sell in Europe, and it was
so quickly discredited by the United States....
[Confusion of voices].
KOPPEL: Let -- let me -- you -- you've made a very
interesting offer, I think. And I want to be sure that it is
indeed an offer.
You're saying that if the government of El Salvador
came to the Security Council of the United Nations and asked
your government to stop interferring in its internal affairs,
you would stop doing so, is that right?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: No, I didn't say that at
all. That if they had -- they believed that we were doing that
and they had the proofs, they could present them to the
Security Council, for example. Why don't they?
We have believed that the United States was preparing
to invade Nicaragua, and we brought our case a year ago to the
Security Council. Now the invasion has indeed taken place.
And once again we brought the issue to the Security Council.
And all we get from the United States is this very cynical type
of response, saying, "Well, it is not in our tradition or in
our custom to speak about covert actions against another
country," and all of this type of set [?] logic.
KOPPEL: In point of fact, Mrs. Kirkpatrick did not
say any of that, at least not this evening. She simply said
that the U.S. government was not trying to overthrow your
government, but that it -- but that it was trying to encourage
your government to hold elections.
Now, since you've been good enough to answer your own
question, would you go back to my original question. Why
doesn't your government hold elections?
FOREIGN MINISTER DESCOTO: Our government committed
itself to holding elections right after the overthrow of
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Somoza, and there were people in the government who wanted to
have elections right away. There was a debate that opened up.
As a matter of fact, it was the conservative parties and the
private sector who opposed the idea of having elections
immediately. They said that in the heat of the victory, then,
it would be inevitable for the friends of Sandinista to sweep
at the ballot boxes. And, therefore, they -- we decided to
postpone elections after a six-year period of national recon-
struction.
This is exactly what we have done. This issue of
elections has never been an internal issue. it's just the
pretext, or an excuse, that the United States -- Reagan
Administration -- uses in order to render more palatable, more
acceptable the very hideous, criminal policy that have adopted
against Nicaragua.
KOPPEL: All right, Foreign Minister Descoto, thank
you very much.
Mrs. Kirkpatrick has decided to at least give us the
benefit of some closing comments.
Ambassador Kirkpatrick?
AMBASSADOR KIRKPATRICK: You know, Mr. Descoto always
appalls me, quite frankly. He appalls me, first of all,
because El Salvador so clearly is a victim of Nicaraguan
aggression, and Nicaragua continues to foment aggression
against its other neighbors, its democratic neighbors as well.
And then Mr. Descoto quotes the commitments of the U.N.
Charter, international law, and so forth, against intereference
in the internal affairs in another country.
And, as -- the Sandinista junta rules Nicaragua as a
military dictatorship. They don't share any power with
anybody. They've ruled under martial law state of seige for
more than a year now, and yet he talks about the people making
a decision not to have elections. It -- you know, this is
fraud, and I'm afraid that the government of Nicaragua fairly
regularly engages in it.
KOPPEL: All right. Ambassador Kirkpatrick, Foreign
Minister Descoto, thank you both for joining us this evening.
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