REPORTS ON MEETING WITH MR. FRED KIRSCHSTEIN, MEMBER OF STAFF, SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP89B00552R000100100077-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 25, 2004
• Sequence Number: 77
• Publication Date: August 19, 1975
• Content Type: MEMO

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Report on Meeting with Mr. Fred Kirschstein,
Member of Staff, Select Committee on Intelligence,
U. S. House of Representatives
1. This memorandum summarizes the conversation which
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took place during my meeting with Mr. Kirschstein 1630-1745,
18 August. I met with Mr. Kirschstein on request and instructions
of Mr., William Parmenter, D/OCI, acting for Mr. Paul Walsh,
ADDI, absent on leave, and as Acting Chief, Collection Guidance
and Assessments Staff (CGAS) in absence of Mr. Franklin Petrasek,
Chief, CGAS, also on leave. At my request,
Chief, DDI Executive Staff was present during the meeting as an
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2. During the early part of the meeting--at Mr. Kirschstein's
request--I reviewed the principal functions of CGAS, its organization,
and the nature and purpose of its activities both within CIA and "outside"
with the other, intelligence agencies. In the course of these remarks,
I also gave him a general description of processes involved in
generating and coordinating requirements and guidance for the
collection and reporting of intelligence information by various
sources, insuring action on them, and assessing and evaluating the
results from such action.
3. Mr. Kirschstein indicated when he asked me for a brief
on CGAS that his mission was to identify overlap, duplication, and
waste in the technical intelligence collection effort. Later in the
meeting he re-defined the job slightly--as identifying overlap,
duplication, and waste in overseas collection activities. He asked
me repeatedly during the meeting for evidence of overlap, duplication,
and waste in such activities. I told him that I could not cite and
did not know of any instances of undesirable or unnecessary overlap
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Specification by DCI, USIB, or higher
authority of objectives (subjects of
intelligence concern)and priorities,
Committee, COMIREX, and the Human Sources
Committee, and
e. g. CGAS, the requirements coordination
mechanisms administered by the USIB SIGINT
related to collection and reporting of information,
Establishment of services of common
concern, e.g... NPIC and other
centralization of responsibilities for functions
bilities-are allocated--divided--by agreement
among agencies, e. g. , for preparation of detailed
photo-interpretation reports on various subjects.
-.becentralization technique (in contrast to
centralization noted above) whereby responsi-
4. In response to other questions asked by Mr. Kirschstein
or duplication in collection. I spoke to him instead about the
differing and sometimes unique information potential of the various
sources, the benefits of complementary source materials, the
differences in timeliness of information provided by the several
sources, and the value of redundancy in reporting (corroboration
verification, clarification, negation, etc. ). I also outlined a number
of organizational and managerial arrangements which in their . '
evolution over the years, by design or effect, ? worked to. minimize
undesirable overlap or duplication in collection, viz:
during the interview, I:
Reviewed the typical procedures used by CGAS
to evaluate, in collaboration with production offices,
reporting by a
Stated that to my knowledge CIA did not have a
"communications cryptology" capability.
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Questioned as inaccurate, his assertions that
U. S. peripheral reconnaissance aircraft
persistently and currently penetrate PRC
.airspace, that SR-71 aircraft regularly
violated Chinese airspace in missions over
North Vietnam, and that SR-71 missions flown
over South Korea along the DMZ overfly China in
turns
Stated that the last SR-71 reconnaissance over-
flight of North Korea took place in 1971 to the
best of my recollection.
5. I could' not answer several of Mr. Kirschstein's questions
and either told him I did not know the answer or that it was beyond
my cdmpetence. These questions were:
Necessity for Army, Navy, and Air Force to
have their own scientific and technical intelligence
.-organizations (FSTC, FTD, and STIC)?
. ' Identification of clandestine sources of the Army?
6. During the final minutes of the interview, Mr. Kirschstein
"stated that he wanted to obtain detailed information about the U. S.
airborne peripheral reconnaissance program. He referred to his
earlier questions about violation of Chinese and North Korean air-
space by U. S. reconnaissance aircraft and said that "people keep
coming in to tell us about such violations. Specifically, he said
he would like information on:
Where missions are flown. How often.
Operational constraints on pilot (duration and
depth of penetration of denied areas was at
discretion of pilot to his understanding).
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Safeguards for abort or inadvertent over-
flight.
Violations of other nations airspace. When.
Where, etc.
Officials or departments that authorize aerial
penetration procedures.
Purposes of penetration.
Since he had indicated that he wished to terminate the interview, I
suggested that these questions be submitted "through channels"
(which he didn't seem to know). He seemed to accept my suggestion.
I did not give any "documents" to Mr. Kirschstein.
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Acting Ch .
Collection Guidance and Assessments Staff 1J-e .
Chief, CGAS
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