' I AM A MIXTURE OF WASHINGTON AND LINCOLN'

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00552R000505250001-5
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 2
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 2, 2010
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: November 10, 1986
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

STAT
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4 4',
Interview with Muammar Qadhafi
`I am a mixture of Washington and Lincoln'
Tripoli
1 Western journalists jokingly call it "the bar scene from
'Star Wars' "-referring to the nightly gathering of wildly
assorted business people, mullahs, terrorists and advisers-
Soviet and otherwise-in the lobby of the posh Al Kabir
Hotel. "Everyone's waiting to see Qadhafi," explains a Da-
mascus-based Kurdish rebel leader.
Many don't make it. The Libya of Muammar Qadhafi,
"the Leader," is no longer the fountain of money it once was
for salesmen of every description. Libya's more than 3 mil-
lion people are tightening their belts. Though the breadlines
of last year have all but disappeared, freight cranes in the
port of Tripoli are idle, and Libyans queue up to buy every-
thing from disposable diapers to light bulbs. At least half the
shops on Tripoli's First of September Street have closed.
Those who do see Qadhafi are mostly certifiable "revolu-
tionary fighters." Despite a staggering drop in Libya's an-
nual oil revenues-at least $20 billion since the late '70s-
he continues to finance a long list of terrorist groups.
"There's been no slowdown in funds or backing for revolu-
Q Colonel Qadhafi, is there any way to break the stalemate
between the U.S. and Libya?
When there is a change in the President of the United
States, there will be understanding not only between our two
countries but with other countries as well. Reagan now rep-
resents the interests of the Israelis, and he is under the influ-
ence of his foreign minister, who is an Israeli.
Q But Secretary of State Shultz is an American, born in the U.S.-
He's sacrificing the interests of the Americans in favor of
the Israelis. The bombing raid on Libya was for the interests
of the Israelis, because there is no Libyan-American problem.
Q What you refer to as "support of liberation movements" Ameri-
cans see as terrorism-
What you view as ter-
rorism is the Palestinian
struggle for liberation
against the Israelis. And
whatever Reagan is call-
ing terrorism is actually
a struggle of the peo-
ple's liberation move-
ment against terrorism.
What the Americans
are doing is a terrorist
act, and what the Israelis
are doing is a terrorist
act. What the Palestin-
ians, Nicaraguans, the
Lebanese are doing-this
is a liberation movement.
Q But this "struggle" re-
sults in American deaths-
Exactly. America will
be harmed because it in-
volved itself for the bene-
fit of the Israelis.
Lion," says a Moscow-educated member of Georges I-Ta-
bash's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Nor is
there any lessening of the frenzied anti-Semitism and open
hatred of the Reagan administration that permeate both
government and public.
The image of Qadhafi as terrorist leader has changed,
however, since the U.S. air strike last April in retaliation for
a Libya-sponsored bombing in West Berlin. The image is no
less violent, but with the unmasking of Syria's Hafez Assad
as a calculating manipulator of state terrorism who tries to
deny his role, Qadhafi appears as much an erratic cash cow
as a guiding genius of revolution.
Qadhafi rarely has been seen in public since the raid. But
one evening in late October, wearing a stylish jump suit, he
climbed the red-carpeted stairs of his mansion, which had
been damaged in the American attack. There, surrounded by
pieces of shattered glass and marble, he talked with US. News
& World Report Senior Correspondent Richard Z. Chesnoff
and American writer Barbara Victor, author of Terrorism,
who is now at work on a book about Qadhafi. A
Q What is the resolution of the Palestinian question?
There is no resolution. The Palestinian people, behind the
Arab nation, will continue fighting till the end.
Q Is the end the destruction of Israel? Is that the final solution?
Maybe the destruction of the Arabs, maybe the destruc-
tion of Israel,
0 What's your reaction to suggestions that there was a Reagan
administration disinformation campaign against you?
The American people sit accused because they have not yet
tried Reagan and his gang for this scandal of disinformation,
which outdid the Watergate scandal. Also, they have not even
tried him for this crime that you see here [pointing to the rub-
U.S.NEWS & WORLD REPORT, Nov. 10, 1986
ble around him]-as a
killer and a murderer and
a madman. Does this
serve the interests of the
American people? Does
this build friendship?
Q There were reports that
after the bombing raid you
were deeply depressed-
This is part of the dis-
information campaign,
because during that peri-
od I was out with the peo-
ple more than normal.
Q Do you think President
Reagan tried to kill you?
You can see [laughing
and gesturing to the ruins
surrounding him]. He
should be tried as a killer,
as a murderer.
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last six months altered your support of what the U.S. considers
terrorist movements?
We have increased our support for the liberation move-
ments of the Palestinians and for all liberation movements
throughout the world. To react to this aggression, we have
doubled our efforts with the liberation movements.
Q Even if your activities provoke a similar response from the
U.S. government-
Even if they hit us with the atomic bombs!
Q Do the Abu Nidal and Georges Habash groups [both linked to
terrorism] use Libya as a base for their operations?
Libya is open for the Palestinians.
Q Is the Soviet Union still behind you as solidly as before?
We are satisfied with the relationship with the Soviet
Union-with our friendship with the Soviet Union.
Q Would you comment on the recent
break in relations between Great Britain
and Syria?
The West is mad! It's still with the
spirit of the Crusades. They would like
to enable the Israelis to control the
Arab world, and they want to destroy
the Arabs. It's a colonial policy that
has not changed.
Q Is there a difference in your mind be-
tween anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, or
anti-Jewishness?
We don't hate the Jews, because
some Libyans are Jews and some Arabs
are Jews and Judaism is a religion.
We don't hate religion; we are
against Zionism. More clearly, we are
against colonialism. We would consid-
er Palestine as occupied by these peo-
ple-whatever name you give them-
even if they were Moslems. They are
occupying Palestine, and they have to
be resisted.
I don't think a reasonable man can
was terrorism and was wrong. Why
does the United States object to libera-
Syria sends young women to be trained
at a military academy in Tripoli
support Israel. This is a tyrant entity and a terrorist one,
and it is manufacturing atomic weapons. Why don't you
stand by the Palestinian people, who are persecuted and
being displaced from their lands?
Why did the Jews come from Europe to Palestine? Be-
cause you persecute them in Europe. They should get their
rights as European citizens. We shouldn't pay the price of
the persecution of the Jews.
0 If Palestine were to go back into the hands of the Palestin-
ians, where would the Israelis go?
Most of them came as invaders from Europe and Russia,
and they must go back to their homes. The Arabs stayed
800 years in Spain, and then they came back.
Q But the Jews originated in Palestine, too-
We accept the Jews who were living with us before
1948-for thousands of years, of course. These are Oriental
Jews. But the others are all invaders. The right of the Arabs
to resist is much stronger than Reagan and all of his might.
0 The Arabs have been fighting among themselves for de-
cades. Why are they so disunited?
Because of Western colonization. Because the Arab
homeland is divided into 20 countries because of the West-
ern colonization.
Q Would a leader other than Yassir Arafat be more effective in
uniting factions within the Palestine Liberation Organization?
Generally, Yassir Arafat has failed. Who's going to be the
alternative is unknown yet.
Q Is it conceivable that Americans will face attacks by "libera-
tion movements" inside the United States? Would you support
the activities of such groups?
Peoples have the right to defend themselves and to react
to aggression.
Q Does a resolution of the Palestinian issue depend on unity
within the Arab world?
Of course. Why does America object to unity of the Arab
nation? This means that the struggle of Abraham Lincoln
non of Arab land? This means that
George Washington's liberation was
wrong and was terrorism.
Arab unity is a unification of Arab
countries into states like the United
States. This is the role I am playing-a
mixture of the roles of George Washing-
ton and Abraham Lincoln.
Q Would you like to lead such a united
Arab world?
[Smiling broadly] Yes. Why not?
Q What are your feelings about the fact
that thousands of your fellow Moslems in
Afghanistan have died at the hands of So-
viet troops?
This is a problem that concerns the
people of Afghanistan. The Russians
came there at the request of the legal
government of Afghanistan.
America also occupies many coun-
tries at the request of those countries. It
had five bases here at the request of the
Libyan government before the revolution. Why didn't you
consider this as occupation?
Q Has the tremendous drop in world oil prices caused Libya to
adjust its priorities, its standard of living?
It is the Western oil companies that are affected primari-
ly, because they lost a lot of revenue. No, we have not been
affected.
I have one observation to make. Now, there are two
different ideological lines in the world-the "Third World:
Latin America, Africa, Asia and the Arab homeland. They
are in labor of revolution either toward Marxism, which is
prevailing-the traditional direction, like Cuba and Ethio-
pia-or the Jamahiriya. Libya is a Jamahiriya, a "state of
the masses." Grenada, for example, during the time of
Maurice Bishop: He was following the Jamahiriya line.
There was a Marxist coup against him, and he was killed.
Then came the American intervention. Cuba, on the other
hand, got the other direction, the Marxist direction.
The war launched by America against Nicaragua, Grena-
da, Cuba-this is compelling these countries to go Marxist.
It's like you put pressure on Castro to become a Commu-
nist. I am not a Communist, but I might be obliged just to
nag America-to become a Communist out of spite.
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