IN TESTIMONY FOR CBS, EX-OFFICERS SAY ENEMY COUNT WAS DISTORTED

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00552R000707150102-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 1
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 13, 2010
• Sequence Number: 102
• Publication Date: January 10, 1985
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

Approved For Release 2010/08/13: CIA-RDP90-00552R000707150102-0
NEW YORK T II T '
10 January 1085
in Testimony for CBS, Ex-Officers
',Say Enemy Count Was Distorted
By M. A. FARBER
wenton to describe "the ceiling idea"
as "very, very bad. Dishonest, yes."
Colonel Hamscher said that, while
Brig. Gen. George Godding was the
head of the Saigon delegation at Lang-
ley, the "principal negotiator" - who,
he said, sat across from Mr. Adams -
was %;ol. Daniel Graham.
And Colonel Hamscher said that
,
,
former mill intelligence -_? videotapes ee
tary g
The shown yesterday during a break in the conference, Colo.
'Officers who said they witnessed or par- .were made in 1981 during the prepara- nel Graham led military represents-
ticipated in the arbitrary reduction of Lion of the documentary. The deposi-
Vietnamese enemy strength estimates tions, in which the officers were ques-
in 1967 testified by means of deposi- foamed under oath by lawyers for both
tions and filmed interviews yesterday sides, were taken before the trial began
at the trial of Gen. William C. West- on Oct. 9. Three of the four served in
One of the officers, Lieut. Richard
McArthur, said his figures in Saigon on
;'Vietcong guerrilla forces had been
. -"massacred" by his superiors - "fal-
sified, faked, whatever terminology
you would like me to use."
-Another, Lieut. Col. George Hamsch-
er, said he had attended a meeting at
the Pentagon where he took part in the
"bloodless wiping out" of 'units in the
official military listing of enemy
strength known as the order of battle.
-The depositions and videotapes were
introduced by David Boles, a lawyer
for CBS; to show that, for political and
:public relations reasons, General West-
moreland's command had imposed an
artificial "ceiling" of 300,000 on reports
of enemy size in the year before the
January 1958 Tet offensive.
Mr. Boles opened the case for the de-
tense on Tuesday in the 13-week-long
1967 in the order-of-battle section of
Geieral Westmoreland's command.
Besides Lieutenant McArthur, they
were Lieut. Col. David Morgan and
Utut. Marshall Lynn.
Colonel Hamscher - who, like Lieu.
ienint McArthur, appeared on the
.documentary - was an intelligence
officer at the headquarters of the Army
Pacific Command in Honolulu. In Au-
?g t 1967 he represented that command
atajconference at Central Intelligence
icy headquarters in Langley, Va.
.'The. conferees, who also included offi-
.Peis,: from General Westmoreland's
;rommand, were asked to arrive at
enemy strength figures that could be
used for both the order of battle and a
? pecial estimate for the President.
At the conference, the C.I.A. advo-
cated a strength total that was almost
`twice the figure of 298,000 advanced by
.representatives of General Westmore-
Federal District Court in Manhattan. 6 t was Samuel A. Adams, who, in
. General Westmoreland's $120 million ?1198 became a paid consultant for the
suit stems from a 1982 CBS Reports CBS documentary and is now a defend-
,documentary, "The Uncounted ant at this trial. Mr. Adams is expected
Enemy: A Vietnam Deception," which to testify today.
-charged that the general's command -Interagency Cat Fight'
ter" critical data on enemy forces,
."partly by deleting the Vietcong's ham-
let-based self-defense and secret-self
defense units from the order of battle.
Reminder From Judge
General Westmoreland, who led
American forces in Vietnam from 1964,
to 1968, contends that CBS defamed
him by saying he had deceived Presi-
dent Johnson and the Joint Chiefs of
Staff. He denies setting an arbitrary
maximum on enemy strength and ig-
noring reports by his intelligence offi-
cers of a higher enemy presence and a
higher rate of infiltration than he made
known.
Judge Leval reminded
the jury "that the issue in this case is
not whether" the reports by General
Westmoreland's command -known as
the Military Assistance Command,
Vietnam or MACV - "were accurate.
It is not whether MACV was right or
wrong in its decision to exclude the SD
.Colonel Hamscher said, in both his
interview with CBS and his deposition,
'that be was ordered by Honolulu to sup-
port the military's position and that a
' "ceiling" on enemy size had been es-
tablished by senior officers in Saigon.
He`said the conflict between the C.I.A.
and the military was part of an "inter-
-agency cat fight" in which the military
was determined to preserve its role as
-the-final arbiter of enemy strength.
- - The colonel said in his CBS interview
-that he was told General Westmore-
land could not "live with" a higher fig-
?uie'.for enemy strength than 300,000:
"That was the message we got."
_-:.George Crile, the producer of the
rpadcast, who is now also a defendant,
asked Colonel Hamscher whether that
was "an honest order. Was that an or-
"der designed to provide the President
with an accurate intelligence report?"
-''Probably not," the colonel replied.
"But I don't know for sure, because I
was never inside General Westmore-
and SSD from the order of battle. The land's mind and I don't know what his
broadcast," he said,, "made accusa- reason was, if he himself directed that
lions of dishonesty. Dishonesty is what a' ceiling be put on." But the colonel
the case is about. not inaccuracy." - - .
units at a meeting "in a small room at
the Pentagon."
Colonel lamscher told Mr. Crile that
the cuts made at that meeting in ac.
cordance with a "gains/ losses" for-
mula were not "dishonest," although
he felt that the whole episode in 1967
had left his integrity "prostituted." He
also recalled saying to Colonel Graham
at the Pentagon that " 'we can't do this,
this is wrong.' And he looked at me and
said, 'Hamscher, if you've got a better
way of doing this, let's have it."'
Arbitrary Cut Ordered
Earlier in the trial Colonel Graham
- who became director of the Defense
Intelligence Agency and retired as a
lieutenant general - testified that be
did not attend the conference in 1967
and was in Saigon at that time. General
Godding also testified that he did not
see Colonel Graham at the conference.
Lieutenant Lynn, in his interview, re-
called that in the summer of 1967 he
was ordered by a colonel whose name
he could not remember to arbitrarily '
cut the size of enemy logistical units by
25 percent. It was "complete mad-
ness," recalled the lieutenant.
Colonel Morgan said in his.deposition
that, around the same time, he was or-
dered by his immediate superior, Col.
Gains Hawkins, chief of the order-of-
battle section, to have analysts lower
their figures for enemy "administra-
tive," or support units.
Lieutenant McArthur, in his inter-
view, said that his figures for guerril-
las in the fall of 1967 were halved and
that when he protested to Col. Paul
Weiler, who is now dead, the colonel
said: "Lie a little, Mac. Lie a little."
"Well, I said, 'I'm not going to lie a lit-
tle.' And I did an about face, turned
around, and smashed out of his office."
Colonel Hawkins,'who gave a key in-
terview for the CBS documentary, is
expected to testify for the network.
General Westmoreland's lawyers will
argue that, in ordering any arbitrary
cuts, Colonel Hawkins did not act on the
authority of his commander.
Approved For Release 2010/08/13: CIA-RDP90-00552R000707150102-0