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December 22, 2016
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October 2, 2012
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December 15, 1986
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Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 RADIO IV REPORTS, INC. 4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 (301) 656-4068 FOR PROGRAM DATE PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF CBS News Nightwatch December 15, 1986 2:00 A.M. STATION SUBJECT CIA Recruitment on College Campuses WUSA-TV CBS Network Washington, D.C. 4 FRED GRAHAM: Voices of protest can be heard these days on college campuses across America. At issue, CIA recruitment. The agency has been traveling to schools, looking for potential new employees. That effort has triggered several demonstrations, including a recent one at the University of Massachusetts. Jimmy Carter's daughter Amy and activist Abbie Hoffman were among those arrested. More on the story from Mike Lawrence of our Boston affiliate WNEV-TV. MIKE LAWRENCE: The rally turned into a building takeover, a demand for an end to campus recruiting by groups believed to violate international law. [Chants of demonstrators] LAWRENCE: Campus police broke LIO the sit-in at 7:00 P.M., backed by state troopers with riot gear and dogs. Fifty-one people handcuffed and loaded on a bus. Brown University student Amy Carter had planned to avoid arrest, but changed her mind when she saw police tactics. AMY CARTER: It's not only to keep the CIA off this campus, it's to sort of like spotlight the things the CIA has been doing recently. LAWRENCE: Like Nicaragua? CARTER: Like Nicaragua. Yeah. And I think if it doesn't accomplish keeping the CIA off campus, it will at least OFFICES IN: WASHINGTON DC. ? NEW YORK ? LOS ANGELES ? CHICAGO ? DETROIT ? AND OTHER PRINCIPAL CITIES mote Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 2 raise the consciousness. LAWRENCE: In court, dozens of U-Mass students joined Amy Carter in pleading not guilty to disorderly conduct. Abbie Hoffman, a Worcester native, now 49, replayed a court role familiar from the 1960s. ABBIE HOFFMAN: I'd also like to say I'm ashamed to be from Massachusetts because of what happened last night. It was just Birmingham, Alabama 1963. dogs. It was excessive use of force. It was police I was invited, along with a lot of other people who have concerns about 18 months of arms deals with Iran, all in secret, without the advice and consent of the Congress, without the American public knowing about it. GRAHAM: That report from WNEV-TV reporter Mike Lawrence. Joining us now to look at this CIA controversy is Abbie Hoffman; and John Greaney, a former CIA agent. He's Executive Director of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers. As an associate general counsel for the CIA, he's represented the agency in a number of high-profile cases. Abbie, I'm sure that the first question that a person would ask is, you're 49, it said there... HOFFMAN: Fifty. GRAHAM: Fifty? You've passed that big 50. So why are you doing this? HOFFMAN: Well, this is not may first arrest against the CIA. The first one was two years ago. I've been in Central America four times leading delegations. I tought ten years against the Vietnam War. I see signs of it happening again. And I recognize that the CIA has played a role over the past 40 years that's dragged us into war, that's involved political assassinations, destabilizing governments, that's involved lying to the American people. GRAHAM: You don't like the CIA. HOFFMAN: It's undemocratic. It's -- and it gets us in trouble, and it's going to do it again. It's my patriotic duty to speak out against what I consider to be an unpatriotic organization that's not serving... Declassified and Approved_ For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 3 [Confusion of voices] JOHN GREANEY: Wait a minute. HOFFMAN: I guess my ba -- my basic question is, what's so intelligent about the CIA? GREANEY: Well, to begin with, it is nut an unpatriotic organization, Abbie. It was established by -the National Security Act of '47. It has two committees of Congress which oversee its activities. It has a budget that is approved by the Congress, it's voted on by the entire Senate and the House. And it is a government agency. Now, the activities fur which this incident took place is CIA only goes on campuses when it's requested to by the placement officers looking for jobs for their own students. They do not go out and push their efforts against the campuses. They go only when they're invited, and they're offering students job opportunities, which is certainly nothing unpatriotic about offering job opportunities to college students. GRAHAM: John, can I ask something, though? Abbie brought the paper there. That's the newspaper from the campus there. Do you have it with you? HOFFMAN: Yeah. But they're all pretty standard. The... GRAHAM: Yeah, but it seemed to me... HOFFMAN: Well, you know, it's [exciting opportunities aoruad." GRAHAM: Well, that's on the front page, isn't it? Would you hold that up? HOFFMAN: Yeah. Well, this is on the right small front paper.. It's about four pages. GRAHAM: And here it is, "CIA"... HOFFMAN: "CIA offers you career opportunities"... GRAHAM: Hold it up, holo it around so the camera -- the camera right here. HOFFMAN: "Where your options are as diverse as your interests. If you're looking fur an exciting job"... Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 4 GRAHAM: Isn't that a bit of -- that's d bit of a provocation, isn't it? I mean... GREANEY: No, it's an opportunity. HOFFMAN: Nothing about mining harbors, about printing political assassination manuals. GREANEY: Well, now wait a minute. You're talking about policies of the United States Government that are authorized. HOFFMAN: No. GREANEY: You're talking about activities that have been ordered by the United States Government for the Agency to carry out. HOFFMAN: That's not it. GREANEY: And they are that. Now, the Agency has a whole panorama of activities that get involved in very technical --they want the brightest people that can do the best job for this government. And if we don't have intelligence, we don't have a good defense. We need intelligence for the first line of defense. HOFFMAN: Well, I'm not against intelligence, gathering intelligence for the protection of the United States. It's the kind of intelligence. For example, when the CIA goes to Chile and tin miners there are being maltreated and abused, what they do is come -- they don't come back on the conditions of tne tin miners. They go to the Pinochet government and they finger the leaders of the unions who are organizing those arrests. They do the same thing in South Korea when they students pruteset no academic freedoms. GREANEY: Wait a minute. You don't nave any evidence that CIA is involved in these things. HOFFMAN: Wait a minute. The first entire ten years of the CIA, where they overthrew the Mossadegh government, the Arbenyez[sic] government, where they conducted a multimillion-dollar war in Tibet, were not known to 75 percent of the Congress, were not know to 95 percent of the Americans. It wasn't until Francis Gary Powers was shot down... GRAHAM: That things in history. Come on now. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 5 HOFFMAN: ...that we even knew that there was a CIA existing. Well, It's still going on. GREANEY: The CIA was established by statute in 1947. HOFFMAN: It's still going on. GRAHAM: Those kids you were with there, none of them were alive when Francis Gary Powers... HOFFMAN: Yes, but Hasenfus went down. What the Hasenfus case reveals Is that the CIA has violated the Boland Amendment. It has violated the War Powers Act. CIA... GREANEY: That Is not true. There Is no evidence that HOFFMAN: They have not consulted with Congress. GREANEY: Walt a minute. There's no evidence of that. HOFFMAN: Yes, there is. What, are you kidding? They've been delivering arms. What's all this stuff about Iran and the money going to the Contras? no... GREANEY: The CIA has nut been delivering arms. There's HOFFMAN: That's ridiculous. GREANEY: ...evidence of them delivering arms. HOFFMAN: Well, who's Gomez 3nd Medina, and how are they tied to... GREANEY: They're not working for CIA. GRAHAM: Well, they used to. They're In that old-buy CIA network. GREANEY: They're an alumnus, yes. But you don't say that if somebody worked fur CBS and they go out and start a revolution, they're still CBS's employees, do you? GRAHAM: But It does seem to me that the taint of the CIA lasts a little bit longer than associations of other... GREANEY: Hasenfus had a job with Air America. That was a proprietary. There's no doubt about it. He lived well. HOFFMAN: Free enterprise, equal opportunity employer. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 6 Come on! I mean he's been doing this since... GRAHAM: What you really object to is... HOFFMAN: Is their lies. GRAHAM: No, the policy of the government, which is being carried out by the CIA. And what you should do is vote against Ronald Reagan. HOFFMAN: Well, I du vote against Ronald Reagan. And obviously, this is a sad moment for our country because.. .[confusion voices].. .suckered in by... GRAHAM: Forty-nine states voted for him. And how can you blame an agency of the government that carries out his policies? HOFFMAN: But what they don't -- for example, 72 percent du not support aid to the Contras, any kind of aid. GREANEY: The Congress voted the money. That's the part you've gut to remember. HOFFMAN: The Congress voted humanitarian aid, from '82 to '85. GREANEY: But the Congress voted $100 million for weapons. Don't forget that. HOFFMAN: During that period, weapons were being supplied to the Contras to the CIA. GREANEY: No, they weren't. There is no evidence to support that, and you can't come up with that statement and support it. HOFFMAN: In the case of Massachusetts, Massachusetts has laws about affirmative action programs. The CIA, unlike the other companies, the Company doesn't have to abide by that law. Unlike other companies... GRAHAM: You mean you're doing this because they don't abide by affirmative action guidelines? HOFFMAN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Well, this was why the University of Mass... GREANEY: What kind of a guideline are you referring to, hiring practices? HOFFMAN: Yes. Declassified and Approved_ For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 7 Unlike other companies -- If you go to IBM... GRAHAM: Oh, come on. GREANEY: Come on. that's ridiculous. HOFFMAN: If you go for a job at IBM... GRAHAM: Should spies be picked according to affirmative action guidelines? GREANEY: Are you going to have a quota? I mean how many people speak the foreign languages? HOFFMAN: I'm not speaking out against intelligence gathering. I'm speaking now of the covert action program of the CIA. The dirtiest word over 40 years has been a nonaligned country. GREANEY: The covert action is... HOFFMAN: If you aun't choose, if you don't choose, your government can be destablized, as it was in Indonesia, as it was in Guatemala, as it is trying to do right now in Nicaragua by the CIA. GRAHAM: I want to a break here. But I think that one thing that we may have established is that you two don't agree about the nature of the CIA. HOFFMAN: I don't agree that he's a former agent. GRAHAM: About the nature -- but that still leaves the question of... HOFFMAN: You're dead when you're a former agent. You're dead. GRAHAM: ...whether or not these are the proper tactics to use. And I want to take a break and come back and talk about that narrower issue. GRAHAM: We're back with a rather rambunctious discussion here about protesting against the CIA. Abbie, two questions. First of all, you are, as I understand it, trying to launch a syndicated radio talk show. HOFFMAN: Well, that's just... Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 8 GRAHAM: Is that not true? HOFFMAN: I'm raising my voice across in the media. GRAHAM: So yuu may be doing this for publicity, personal publicity. HOFFMAN: No. That's ridiculous. I've been doing this 25 years. There are 66,000 pages of files. I spent seven years underground. I've been busted 43 times. Come off it. GRAHAM: But why don't you let the kids... HOFFMAN: There's an easier way to make money. All you have to do is ask some of the more famous big-chilled people of the 1960s. GRAHAM: Some people might say you are contributing to the delinquency of either near-minors, or in some cases perhaps minors here. You're leading these kids to get themselves arrested. HOFFMAN: Well, I am not a leader. I was invited on, and there were several other people that were my age. GRAHAM: But isn't it time to let this generation... HOFFMAN: I'm a teacher now. I'm a teacher. GRAHAM: Isn't it... HOFFMAN: Oh, yes. Absolutely. Women and children to the front. GREANEY: Abbie? Do you teach them how to get busted? HOFFMAN: Absolutely. On this case, yes. Because in Massachusetts you can -- they have necessity laws. And I'm charged with trespassing. And Amy Carter, myself, and others will put on trial this spring the CIA in open court by saying that here was a necessity to break a smaller law because larger laws, like the War Powers Act,... GREANEY: Just remember the CIA... HOFFMAN: the Neutrality Act. GREANEY: The CIA was invited on that campus for good reason,... HOFFMAN: Hey, he just interrupted me rather rudely. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 you... the jobs. it! 9 GREANEY: recruit people for jobs. Why should HOFFMAN: But jobs -- but they lie about the nature of GREANEY: They do not lie. HOFFMAN: They don't talk about mining habors.' Come off GREANEY: They don't lie about the jobs. They offer the students the opportunities for a career if they can meet the criteria. They want the brightest people available to do the best job. HOFFMAN: But they lie. But they lie about the jobs. GREANEY: They don't lie. The recruiters don't lie. HOFFMAN: You can't go look up in a manual. They don't even say how much money the CIA has, like IBM has. GREANEY: Congress said so. That's right. It's classified because the HOFFMAN: They offer them a secret job, a job -- a job which McGeorge Bundy, by the way, said the covert action program of the CIA in 40 years has been a dismal failure. He should know. He was head of the National Security Council for two Presidents. GRAHAM: Let me... HOFFMAN: I don't think -- I tnink it's a complete failure, too. Where's it been a tremendous success? GREANEY: We have stayed out of war. We are not at war. HOFFMAN: sending 200... At war? We've stayed out of war? We're GRAHAM: Can I ask you this? When you have these protests, are you trying to save these innocent students from being employed by a nefarious organization? HOFFMAN: We are trying to draw attention to the fact, number one, that the CI -- what the CIA activities are. We are saying this is a crisis period because we need the grand distraction right now, and that is war, and that's what's going on on the Honduran border. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 10 GREANEY: But what about the students that want a job? Why don't you give them the opportunity to get a job? Why do you interfere with that? HOFFMAN: They can got to Boston. They can qu to Washingtun. GREANEY: But why du they have to pick up with... HOFFMAN: They can go to the CIA. And the CIA can du what it did in the '60s. It went and gut all the Mormons it could in Utah and it went to the Southern technical colleges ani it recruited... GREANEY: Well, that sounds like a racist argument. HOFFMAN: Let 'em go there. Let 'em go there. Let 'em go there. GRAHAM: Let me redirect this just for a minute because, Abbie, it dues seem to me... HOFFMAN: Most students on the campus did nut even know that the CIA is there recruiting. GRAHAM: Well, I saw that front page, that huge ad there. HOFFMAN: That has a thousand circulation. I'm sorry. They don't know. GRAHAM: Let me ask you this, a little bit different direction here. It is interesting... HOFFMAN: They certainly don't know its history. Look, I was one of 12 people singled out, and admitted to, domestically spied on by the CIA, Illegally. Jack Anderson, your colleague was one. Jane Fonda... part. what? GRAHAM: All right. Well, maybe this is revenge on your HOFFMAN: No, it's not. Revenge for what? Revenge for GRAHAM: For being spied on. HOFFMAN: Oh, come off of it. GREANEY: But wasn't it for good reason? Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 11 HOFFMAN: No, it's not. GREANEY: [Laughter] GRAHAM: Wait a minute. You have to answer for that. HOFFMAN: No. It was illegal. GRAHAM: justifiable by... If that was illegal, do you think it's GREANEY: I'm not sure it was illegal. HOFFMAN: It's one thing... GREANEY: Wait a minute. HOFFMAN: It's one thing if I break the law, especially if it's civil disobedience. GREANEY: Obviously. You've been arrested 43 times. HOFFMAN: If people entrusted by the public within government break the law, that's an entirely different case. GREANEY: All right. The reason for that was very important, because it was an element that considered the fact that the antiwar protesters were Influenced by the Communist governments of the Soviets. HOFFMAN: Oh, come off it. That's ridiculous. GRAHAM: That's not a very persuasive argument. Now wait a minute. GREANEY: That's the reason for the investigations. GRAHAM: Let me go to one last question. HOFFMAN: Is that reason to go to my father's customers and tell them not to do business with come on. You don't even know -- you can't even guess at what... GRAHAM: I do have a question that I want to ask both of you, and that is: This has surfaced, these protests against CIA recruiting... HOFFMAN: And it will continue. GRAHAM: Yeah. And I want to ask you about that, both of you. Because I think it's significant that for a number of Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 12 years now the CIA was recruiting on campuses and there were not protests. HOFFMAN: That's right. GRAHAM: Now, protests usually mean that there is something happening here. HOFFMAN: There is something happening. GRAHAM: Now, I want to ask both of you. What's happening? HOFFMAN: Well, I can... GRAHAM: I mean other than you being there, is something deeper than that happening? HOFFMAN: In the last two years there's definitely been a change in students' attitude. They're much more engaged in political activism. Over 7000 have been arrested in the anti-apartheid movement. And there's a movement of students who are questioning authority, who are outraged about foreign policy, who are paying attention to lack of student rights on the campus. And the anti-apartheid movement in the '60s... GRAHAM: Well, wait a minute. I'm sorry to cut you off because we only have half a minute. What do you think? Do you think that's a fair statement of what's happening here? GREANEY: No, I think it's a totally distorted statement, because the fact that the students that want a job are looking for employment, they're looking fur a challenge. The Central Intelligence Agency has the highest number of professional advanced degrees than any government agency in the country. It's a very challenging place to work. This government needs the best people to protect our intelligence sources and get the best intelligence we can. And to protest this is just a sideline that is not a very effective manner at all. GRAHAM: Last word. HOFFMAN: This is where students on campus meet the coming war in Central America. So that's why it's becoming an important issue. Just like the issue of Vietnam did not become important while the CIA conducted that war for eleven years. It wasn't until '65 that you had the Vietnam War as an issue on campuses. GRAHAM: I'm sorry our time is up. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8 13 HOFFMAN: Let's go for it. GRAHAM: And you're like ships passing in the night. We'll be back with more on Nightline. HOFFMAN: Yeah. But he's got a mine... Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/10/02 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000302470001-8