DANIEL SCHORR INTERVIEWS ROBERT MCFARLANE

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000705910001-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 5
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 8, 2011
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: May 16, 1987
• Content Type: REPORT

ST Declassified in Part - Sanitized Copy Approved for Release 2011/12/08: CIA-RDP90-00965R000705910001-2
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RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 [phone]
PROGRAM Weekend Edition
May 16, 1987 9:00 A.M.
WAMU-FM
NPR Network
Washington, D.C.
SUBJECT Daniel Schorr Interviews Robert McFarlane
SCOTT SIMON: The former National Security Adviser to
the President of the United States sat stern and stone-faced at
the long table, answering questions. He sipped frequently from a
glass of ice water and referred to documents in a thick loose-
leaf binder. Some of those forced Robert McFarlane to confront
discrepancies in earlier testimony he gave to Congress last year.
He conceded that while under oath he had not given a full account
of his involvement in raising funds for the Contra rebels in
Nicaragua. On another day, Mr. McFarlane said he believed
Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North regularly received instructions
from the late CIA Director William Casey.
Yesterday, Weekend Edition Washington correspondent
Daniel Schorr visited Robert McFarlane at his home in Bethesda,
Maryland. We have added relevant moments from this week's
hearings to that interview.
During one session of this week's hearings, Mr.
McFarlane told lawmakers he was not a fragile flower. They
should shoot their best shots and ask tough questions.
DANIEL SCHORR: Were you satisfied with the way you were
questioned?
ROBERT MCFARLANE: I thought they asked me every
question that needed to be asked, and many that were painful, but
covered the waterfront very well, I think.
SCHORR: What seemed to me remarkable, because of the
buildup for your appearance and whether you were going to make
the President seem wrong, whether you were going to make Oliver
North seem wrong, this was you letting everything hang out; and
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when you were finished, they were going to all there be lying in
ashes. Somehow, you managed to present yourself in a way where
you didn't really appear to or want to, or maybe even
effectively, harm anybody else you were associated with.
Was that your intention?
MCFARLANE: Well, yes. Because, to the best of my
knowledge, nobody that I know of did anything truly mean or for
personal gain. That doesn't justify everything that was done.
But Ollie, I believe, always acted from what he believed to be
the best interest of the country. And I know the President's
motives were good. And I think it is a matter of his not being
very well served by me and other people.
But you're right, Dan, that does mask that mistakes were
made by all of us, me in particular. But I think the country, if
not the Congress, is tolerant enough to forgive that, assuming
that we learned some lessons from it.
SCHORR: I the end, there was an electric moment when
the House Chairman, Lee Hamilton, delivered what I thought was a
rather eloquent lecture to you about you can't protect the
President. He was responsible, and not you.
REP. LEE HAMILTON: You spoke for the President, and the
responsibility must rest with him, as well as with you. You
cannot, it seems to me, accept responsibility for mistakes, as
admirable as that may be, and thereby absolve the President of
responsibility.
SCHORR: Have you thought about that?
MCFARLANE: Yes, I have. I think that that's a valid
comment, but I think that the President feels responsibility.
And I think that his comments will reflect that in the days and
weeks ahead.
But I think that doesn't alter my own sense that most of
the mistakes were mine.
SCHORR: Well, if most of the mistakes that you call
yours were mistakes of not knowing what was going on, it seems to
me, I certainly got an impression -- I must say I had the
impression before, and I think you confirmed that impression --
that while you were the National Security Adviser, a lot of
things were happening behind your back and over your head in a
separate chain of command that ran through the CIA Director, Bill
Casey, to Oliver North and out to Secord and others.
When you look back now -- I remember the last interview
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you did. You said you were learning things that you didn't know.
You know a lot more. Are you aware of how much was happening
without you?
MCFARLANE: Well, Dan, I cannot be sure that I know
today all the things that went on. Even that, however, is an
error of my own. I mean most leaders have the ability to be
confident that they will know what is going on in their own
command.
I will say one thing that has only begun to form in my
mind in the last few days, and I've never said this. I think
that Bill Casey, a man of enormous self-confidence and conviction
about right and wrong, may very well have recognized that he
didn't have many years left, as long as two years ago. And with
that knowledge confirmed for him, he determined that he wanted to
do one or two things for which he knew he would have to accept
history's judgment, but things that he believed were right and
would benefit the country and his President. And I think there's
a real possibility that the last testament for Bill Casey was a
very, very driven one that some of us may not have fully
understood.
SCHORR: Is that entirely surmisal, or do you have any
reason to believe that was in his mind?
MCFARLANE: It's surmise entirely.
SCHORR: Well, is it not also true, or have you thought
about it in these terms, that Bill Casey was in the very, very
inner circle of President Reagan's friends, and you were never in
that inner circle?
MCFARLANE: That's true. And yet I think that Bill was
loyal enough to where if he was doing something that he knew the
President could not countenance, even if he might want to, that
Bill, out of loyalty, would take that on himself.
SCHORR: During the hearings you were as patient as Job
through most of those 3 1/2 days. But about twice, maybe 2 1/2
times, you exploded in a kind of an anger that you could not
longer keep hold of.
What were the things that would precipitate anger?
MCFARLANE: Well, the first time was inspired by the
only breach that I saw of just detail and accuracy by the staff,
which is a marvelous staff. I must say I've never been so
impressed as I have by an attorney in Arthur Liman.
But on the matter that led to conclusions that were very
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severe on my involvement in the preparation of the chronologies,
there was just simply a misapprehension, an error in what the
staff presented to the members, and that is that I was somehow
involved for a week's time in contributing to that chronology.
And the fact is that I was physically out of the city for five of
seven days.
MCFARLANE [testifying]: Now, I'll be glad to answer
questions all day. But is it not so that there has been until
this moment the impression in this committee that I was involved,
importantly, continuously, for sustained periodsl, in the
preparation of the chronology, when in fact it's a matter of a
matter of perhaps minutes, or hours, at most?
MCFARLANE: I think, on the whole, the hearings were
conducted with great civility. But oftentimes they were so
focused on the evidentiary trail as to miss the lessons, historic
lessons, I think, about how the President and the Congress ought
to deal with each other.
SCHORR: What was it about the hostage ransom project
that set you off when the questions was asked?
MCFARLANE: Well, I think that it really was a sign of
my own immaturity. And I say that because Warren Rudman is a man
who understands the benefit of putting passion into a discourse
or colloquy. But it was more his anger that goaded me.
MCFARLANE [testifying]: It is more than passing strange
to me that we cannot aspire to a policy which is more effective
to deal with terrorism. Now, it is undeniable that some
countries are good at it. They are good because terrorists know
that whenever they commit terrorism against Israel, something,
somehow, somewhere, is going to happen.
Now, it may not always be arms. It may not be
preemptive attack. It may be negotiation. It may be bribing.
But you can be goddam sure if any Israeli is caught, he's going
to have his government going after the people who did it.
SCHORR: You said at one point in the hearings, and I'm
not sure how jokingly, that the special prosecutor wants to send
you to jail. Are you in any jeopardy?
MCFARLANE: No, I don't think so. And I shouldn't have
said it. It was interpreted as being satirical, but it really
wasn't. I mean I am prepared to accept whatever responsibility
is due, and to include the punishment that goes with it. And I
was being challenged on that, that I would say I was broadly
responsible, but not for anything culpable. Well, I am culpable,
and I'll step up to that.
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SCHORR: Well, if they're investigating what they call a
conspiracy to defraud the government, a conspiracy to defeat the
purposes of the Boland Amendment, then maybe you are part of that
conspiracy. You said you did nothing evil or wrong. You never
said you did nothing illegal.
MCFARLANE: Well, I feel strongly that I did nothing
illegal. And I believe that that will be the verdict of the
independent counsel.
SCHORR: Have they told you that you are off the hook?
MCFARLANE: No. I don't think they can. I think
their proceedings have to run their course with all their
witnesses before they reach conclusions.
SIMON: Former National Security Adviser Robert
McFarlane, speaking yesterday with correspondent Daniel Schorr.
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