MEET THE PRESS AMERICA'S PRESS CONFERENCE OF THE AIR

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP91-00901R000100090001-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 31
• Document Creation Date: December 12, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 10, 2001
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: February 22, 1976
• Content Type: TRANS

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MEET THE PRESS
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9"se..? GEORGE BUSH
Director, Central Intelligence Agency
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY, 22, 1976
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9ne/ FORD ROWAN, NBC News
ANTHONY LEWIS, The New York Times
CROSBY NOYES, The Washington Star
WALTER PINCUS, The Washington Post
/lto~exa~ax: BILL MONROE
~xecufue . t'ao~rcex: BILL MONROE
1 "W"roex: BETTY COLE DUKERT
Permission is hereby granted to news media and
magazines to reproduce in whole or in part. Credit
to NBC's MEET THE PRESS will be appreciated.
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MEET THE P R E S S
MR. MONROE : This is Bill Monroe, inviting you to MEET
THE PRESS with George Bush, Director of the Central Intelli-
gence Agency. Mr. Bush has been in his new job at the CIA
for three weeks. He was formerly U.S. Ambassador to the
United Nations, Ambassador to China, and before that, Chair-
man of the Republican National Committee. He is a former
Texas Congressman and unsuccessful candidate for the Senate
from that state.
We will have the first questions now from Ford Rowan of
NBC News.
MR. ROWAN: Mr. Bush, the President's new program for
the intelligence agency seeks to prevent leaks and protect secrets
by making it a crime for government employees to leak infor-
mation about intelligence sources and methods.
While legislation would not impose criminal penalties on the
news media, a reporter who received leaked information would
be an eyewitness to a crime and could be forced to reveal his
sources before a grand jury or go to jail.
At issue of course is whether this new procedure could result
in future coverups of abuses and crimes by the CIA. Would you
be willing to endorse legislation which has been endorsed by
your predecessor, William Colby, which would permit reporters
to claim a privilege and not reveal their sources to government
investigators?
MR. BUSH: I don't think there is anything in the new legisla-
tion that would change the liability or the potential liability of a
newsman, and I am not a lawyer. I wish I were, in this job.
My predecessor was a very able lawyer. And so I would have to
consult our own attorneys about that. But I think the point I
would like to make, Mr. Rowan, is that there is no additional
exposure for news people because of this proposed legislation
or because of the regulations that I am instructed to promulgate
under the order.
MR. ROWAN: Mr. Bush, the Attorney General has said that
he would be willing to call reporters before grand juries and
question them about their sources, and the change, of course,
is that now they would be asked about a crime that they were an
eyewitness to. Do you think this could lead to future coverups,
like, for example, the story that appeared 14 months ago in the
New York Times that led to the investigation of domestic spying
-would anyone in the government have been willing to leak that
information if they thought that a grand jury could find out
their identity?
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MR. BUSH: There is no change in-I think you are referring
to the Hersh story-under this. The thing that is involved is
sources and methods, and that will continue to be involved, but
that is not what was happening under the Hersh story, so I
see no chance in that happening under the legislation that is
proposed by the President. But you see, we want to-I think we
want to be darned sure the sins of the past are eliminated, but
equally sure that this intelligence system can operate with
secrecy in the future. That is our objective, fairness; and I
think we can do it.
MR. ROWAN: Certainly "Operation Chaos" which involves
spying on American citizens was a method, and certainly NSA
surveillance of electronic communications of American citizens is
a method, and certainly Americans are worried that their gov-
ernment is spying on them.
MR. BUSH : I think the main thing to remember, Mr. Rowan,
as you study that order, is that those things are eliminated under
this new proposal. Those things are specifically, by reference,
eliminated.
(Announcements)
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Bush, before we go on about intelligence,
I am just tempted to ask you a question on a different subject,
from your experience as head of our liaison mission in Peking.
Why did the Chinese invite former President Nixon to go there?
MR. BUSH : You know, I was thinking of that coming over in
the car. They do have a thing there they call "Friends of China,"
and it is people from all walks of life. There is no formality to
it. It is an expression used. In my 14 months in China we heard
over and over again that President Nixon was a "friend of
China." There also was a certain nostalgia connected with the
timing of the visit, because it was fours years ago to this day,
or yesterday, I guess, that he went there. And then I would say
there is an additional point: The Chinese recognize in former
President Nixon somebody who presented to them our national
self interest, but also they saw in him somebody that was very
understanding of the threat in the world, which they conceive
largely to be the Soviets. That is not to say that they don't
think others feel that way, but I think it is a combination of
affection for him because of shifting the policy, and to them
that he symbolizes a certain ability to cope with the Soviets.
And you know the President's visit was successful, and I think
that this visit, on a very different, private basis is good. I think
they believe in our relationship. They want a good relationship
with the United States.
MR. LEWIS: You say that you think the visit is good, and you
spoke of symbols, but of course-
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MR. BUSH: (Inaudible.)
MR. LEWIS: -some in this country may well see a different
symbol. He was a President who was disgraced, left office,
received a pardon for any and all crimes he may have committed,
and accepted the pardon. I mean, do they understand what that
means in this country?
MR. BUSH: I don't think that concerns them, because they
say-now I am not saying whether it should or not; please don't
put me down as-I am just trying to answer a question based on
my experience in China. They say Watergate makes no differ-
ence. They actually quote-that could be a direct quote, it is
awful close to it. So you see, they are not dwelling on Watergate.
We can argue, and there is plenty of room for opinion-and I
have my own personal opinion, which I don't plan to divulge to
you, about how I feel about it-but I am telling you how the
Chinese feel about it.
MR. LEWIS: I had better come back to a subject on which
you may have some personal feelings which you may divulge.
In following up Mr. Rowan, you said those things such as the
domestic spying had been specifically eliminated in this program.
But there are two things about that in the President's program,
as I understand it. First of all, there are a lot of exceptions.
Certain surveilliance is allowed. Corporations may be watched
for this purpose or that. Organizations may be infiltrated. All
domestically. The larger question is really what Mr. Rowan
was trying to get at, I think. How can you expect people to
disclose that kind of wrong, if it does go wrong, if you frighten
them not only with this criminal statute but with this oath that
you are asking of them, never to tell a secret, a classified intelli-
gence matter?
MR. BUSH: It is a very good question. I would say that most
of the recommendations of the Rockefeller Commission have been
addressed by this. I could read the list, but it is too long. Physical
surveillance, unconsented search and all these things are ad-
dressed. True, there are some exceptions. But I think the main
answer to your question, Mr. Lewis, lies in the fact that there is
oversight machinery within the Executive Branch. There will
be more oversight machinery within the Legislative Branch.
There is a better and more, I think, responsive system where
people of a-inspector generals, and of general counsel activities
in different agencies in the intelligence community, to safeguard
the people of this country against the kind of abuses that
offended you and that offended me, without ruining our ability to
keep secrets and without weakening our ability to keep a strong
intelligence capability. We have got to do that, and some intelli-
gence must be secret.
MR. NOYES: Mr. Bush, considering the problems that some
of your predecessors have had as head of the CIA, what moved
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MR. BUSH : I said this at the Senate hearings. Perhaps the
times are a little cynical, and people may not understand this :
I felt a sense of duty, a sense of obligation. I was asked to do it
without great background or chance to debate it. I was in China
at the time, and I feel if you are called on to serve you ought to
serve. It is a tough job.
I have been very pleased at the quality of the people I have
found out there already at Langley headquarters of the CIA
and, indeed, in the whole intelligence community. I recognize
it is controversial, but I think it is fundamentally important.
I think I can do it with integrity. I had inculcated into me early,
as many people have, a sense of service, and it is no more compli-
cated than that.
MR. NOYES: Do you think you'll be successful in rehabilitat-
ing the CIA in the eyes of Congress and the American people?
MR. BUSH: I hope so, sir. I am going to try, and I have
excellent help there.
MR. NOYES: How long do you plan to be there?
MR. BUSH: I will be there as long as they want me. I am
serving at the pleasure of the President, this President, the
future President, and I am approaching this as a real commit-
ment with no time frame. When I've discussed this job with the
President, there has been no thing [that] I will stay for a certain
period of time.
MR. NOYES: Do you feel there have been any serious lapses
of direction in the previous management of the CIA?
MR. BUSH : Yes, sir, I think there are some things that are
desperately needed to be changed. As soon as the Rockefeller
Commission Report came out, the former Director very promptly
put out regulations addressing himself to specifics. Many of the
things he had done before that. Yes, there were clearly abuses.
There were awful abuses, but the problem is, though, that we
have heard, because of the nature of the abuses, we have heard
of the abuses, we have heard of some abuses that didn't prove to
be abuses, and we have not, because of the nature of the business,
heard of the successes. So we do have a major problem, and yet
I have the comforting feeling that the American people support
the concept of a strong CIA and a strong intelligence community.
MR. NOYES: Did the responsibility for the abuses reside
primarily in the White House or in the direction of the CIA
itself?
MR. BUSH: I think there is plenty of blame to go around in
lots of different areas.
MR. PINCUS : I would like to come at the question of leaks
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Last fall there were disclosures made to congressional com-
mittees about a covert operation by the United States in Angola,
and your predecessor, Mr. Colby, and the administration have
been very critical that that information was leaked out gradually
to the press.
A good deal of that leaking came about because at the very
same time that Congress was told we were acting in Angola
covertly, administration officials were saying publicly that no
such activity was taking place.
As you look to the problem of leaking, do you see a necessity
of the administration to tell the truth in those areas as a way
of preventing leaks which come about because there have been
misleading statements made to the public?
MR. BUSH: I think there is a necessity of telling the truth.
It is very difficult in something involving covert operations. If
they were fully disclosed, they would no longer be covert, so it is
very difficult, I think, to have full disclosure.
But certainly the concept of lying to the American people is
not a valid one, and so I would hope that this problem will be
ameliorated now by the more formalized procedure of the new
oversight group; by the special operations committee, the former
40 Committee ; I think, close cooperation and contact with Con-
gress-which is one of the things that is going to come out of
this, and I am fully supportive of that, out of all these investiga-
tions-will result in an elimination or minimization of the chance
for that knd of thing, but I really believe that we ought to avoid
the posture of lying publicly. But there will be many times when
we cannot be responsive to questions because of the nature of
the work that we are involved in.
MR. PINCUS : But you recognize there is a difference between
being responsive and misleading?
MR. BUSH: Yes, sir, I do recognize that, and I hope I can
conduct myself in this job with that in mind.
MR. PINCUS: Following on, on Angola there was additional
criticism that the release of the information about Angola led to
Congress cutting off aid to Angola, and that, therefore, this was
damaging to our national security.
The administration now seems to be moving to a position of
recognizing the very faction in Angola that we were at one time
trying to undermine covertly. Do you think as a result of those
leaks and the congressional action that our national security has
been undermined because of Angola?
MR. BUSH: I don't know enough about all the details of
Angola to say that, but I would come down strongly against the
leaks. I think the machinery-let's look to the future instead
of the past. I think the machinery is there to safeguard the
interests of the American people throw h inform t' t CC
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gress, and I do feel that leaking covert operations is very damag-
ing to the United States. But, whether you could prove in a
court of law that any specific case damaged the national security,
I don't know. It is clear to me in looking at Angola that Cuba
and the Soviet Union at this point have come out ahead. That
is clear. What evolves in Angola from now or whether we can
move in there diplomatically or something and improve the
situation, that is for the future to determine.
MR. MONROE : Mr. Bush, in Angola the administration was
engaged in a secret operation which, it turned out, the Congress
opposed and, judging by polls, the people of the country were
strongly opposed to. Wouldn't the U. S. have suffered less
psychological damage there if the administration had been re-
quired to go to Congress and seek approval for that covert
operation and been told by Congress, "No, don't do it?"
MR. BUSH: I am not sure it would have happened exactly that
way. You see, the problem in Angola is not so much Angola
itself, but it is the perception of national will in other areas,
important areas and with other countries, allies, friends and
foe alike.
In Angola you can't separate it from the broad perception of
our will. But in your specific question, I don't know that that
would have made a difference or not. I think under the new
machinery that we can avoid-even though we are not giving
prior notice of covert operations, I think through goodwill and
communication with the oversight committees, protecting secrecy
so it won't leak out if an operation starts, we can safeguard the
interests of the American people, and I think a lousy operation
could be aborted by congressional action. either through resource
control or through taking oingwih the , and they have a right
has a wonderful way of d to do that.
MR. ROWAN : Mr. Bush, there has been a lot of controversy
about the publication of the secret report of the House Intelli-
gence Committee, which the House of Representatives voted to
keep secret.
I would like to ask you, is there anything, any damage that
has resulted from the publication of that report? Can you tell
us any specific instance of damage to national security by the
people knowing what was in that report?
MR. BUSH : There are certain things in there, but if I told
you those specifics, that would highlight those and make things
worse. But, yes, there are certain things in there that the
intelligence community feels is damaging to the national secu-
rity. But the fundamental question is, the Congress overwhelm-
ingly voted by almost two to one that that report not be made
public, and the report was made }publlicpwithout fulfilling the
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In my lexicon that is just plain wrong. But that is a matter
now for the Congress to determine, not the intelligence commu-
nity.
MR. ROWAN: I'd like to return to the idea of what kind of
damage was done. Certainly the Russians are smart enough to
know what is in the report that they would like to find out. The
question is of national security. Are you defining national secu-
rity to be the reputation and prestige of the CIA?
MR. BUSH: Well, listen, come to think of it, I could make a
case for that being important to national security, but I think
there are many more specifics which, if I dwelt on them, would
simply show the concern we feel about them. We will pass them
along to the proper authorities, but I am not going to do it here,
or I would be practicing the very thing I am condemning in
others.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Bush, you spoke of the issue in Angola as
being one of demonstrating the national will. It strikes me as
an odd concept that we should demonstrate it in secret.
Really, the problem that Angola poses, it seems to me, is
whether we should undertake a major foreign policy initiative
going into a whole new area of the world in secret. Don't we
usually, haven't we, since 200 years ago, demonstrated our
national will by doing things in the open-that big a thing?
MR. BUSH: I can't totally argue with your point. I think it
is a very, very valid observation, and I can't say, in retrospect,
that what you are suggesting about open debate on it would be
wrong. What I am saying though is that when we undertake
something and we represent to others we are undertaking it,
they are going to be watching to see if we have the follow-
through, if we have the will.
But I think in many instances, frankly I think you will find
less use of covert activity. I think there is an awareness now
that it is much better to approve things in public. But I will
say this, that somewhere in between sending a battalion of
Marines into some place and doing nothing, you need to retain a
covert capability. To the degree my judgment counts on covert,
we are going to be very, very careful in the future. But to the
degree some say : Should we have covert at all, or not ; ?I say,
yes, this country must retain a flexible and a strong covert
capability.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Bush, a few moments ago you said that
we have to rely for controlling abuses not only on law in effect,
but on better oversight by the Executive itself, or Congress.
The President has proposed something called an oversight board
of three distinguished gentlemen. Without being unkind, I
want to say they are rather elderly, that they are part time, and
I just wonder whether you seriously think that such civilians can
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keep abreast of all the things that may go wrong or that you
have just told us a little earlier did go wrong?
MR. BUSH : Let me go back and say I hope I didn't come
down saying I don't think you need any law. I hope that this
executive order, and then the requests for legislation that have
gone forward from the President, say, in the field of assassina-
tion, I hope that will be passed.
Yes, we need law, but certainly you need, inside the executive
branch, some machinery. I can't accept in this day of discrimi-
nation, age discrimination, because a fellow like Mr. Murphy is
a very able person, and I don't think you intended that, but I
would say that this machinery, where the inspectors general and
the general counsel and individuals are encouraged, without
going to the Director, say, someone in the CIA, inspector general,
to go direct to the oversight board, is a good kind of machinery
to have available. You couple that with more oversight by the
Congress, and we are moving toward responsibility on the part
of people like ourselves, the CIA.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Bush, on law, you mentioned the one example
where the President has proposed a law to limit covert actions.
That is on assassinations. I wonder whether you would favor
any other limit. For example, on September 15, 1970, President
Nixon instructed one of your predecessors to encourage a mili-
tary coup against the democratic system of another country,
Chile.
If someone said that to you now, ordered you to do that,
would you do it? How do you feel about that?
MR. BUSH : I wouldn't do it. I will tell you why I wouldn't
say it. It is because under the President's own order, this double
tracking, that that became referred to, is eliminated by much
more formalized actions of the old 40 Committee, the Special
Operations Committee. Nobody can say "Oh, I wasn't there;
I got a phone call."
Everybody sits around and makes a decision of this nature.
And the assassination thing has been ruled out by law.
Also, Mr. Lewis, you come back in the final analysis to judg-
ment, to integrity. You can't really define in a code of law
everything that is going to guarantee perfection. I respect the
attempt that has been made to try to eliminate abuse, and yet
if you say, "Are you guaranteeing there will be no abuse?", I
couldn't say it in this field or any other field, by law.
MR. MONROE : We have just about two minutes.
MR. NOYES: Mr. Bush, what do you think the chances are
that Congress will enact some kind of legislation that subjects;
itself to criminal sanctions in the case of divulging official
secrets?
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MR. BUSH : I think there are two chances : Slim and none.
MR. NOYES: In that case, how effective do you think these
secrets-
MR. BUSH: I am not sure they should, incidentally. I am not
sure they should under this speech and debate clause, but those
are the two chances I see.
MR. NOYES: In the case that we are up against now, the
sanctions will be limited to very few people in the executive
branch of government, as I understand it.
MR. BUSH: As I understand, in one of the proposals, the
proposal goes to the staff of Congressional people, that they
should be subject to penalties if they leak information. So I
think you are going to see some action in this whole secrecy
thing, and I think it is carefully drawn.
But I must confess, I favor it. I don't understand the concept
that people should feel that out of moral outrage or anything
else the right to go peddle secret documents, give them away
or peddle them. I don't like that concept. If the classification is
wrong, let's fix the classification system:
MR. PINCUS: One short thing: The Senate committee that
is setting up its own oversight committee has said that they want
the right to rest with Congress to declassify material that comes
from the President. Is the President going to approve that, or is
he going to limit the amount of information he gets?
MR. BUSH : I am not sure of the administration's position on
that, Mr. Pincus. I don't know what they are going to do, sir.
MR. MONROE : Did you feel some disappointment, Mr. Bush,
when the President ruled you out as a Vice Presidential candi-
date?
MR. BUSH: No, but I have felt some disappointment-we have
sat here for 30 minutes, and nobody talked about the reform of
the intelligence community and how I hope this machinery is
going to make for better intelligence. We have talked about one
other subject.
But no, I didn't feel any disappointment on that. Look, I
didn't see any great advantage in this in accepting it-I
responded to Mr. Noyes. I don't see any politics. I rule it out.
I am a non-politician, as of now.
MR. MONROE: Thank you, Mr. Bush, for being with us today
on MEET THE PRESS.
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MEET THE P R E S S
as broadcast nationwide by the National Broadcasting Company,
Inc., and printed and made available to the public to further in-
terest in impartial discussions of questions affecting the public
welfare. Transcripts may be obtained by sending a stamped,
self-addressed envelope and twenty-five cents for each copy to :
~wap/ure.~fon 9" 20013
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. "Idedlleaxry /i4Jico alioxalion
MEET THE PRESS is telecast every
Sunday over the NBC Television Net-
work. This program originated from
NBC in Washington, D.C.
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$VNDA3f.. FEJ3I,tUA-1+1)" 22'.. , 1976
GEORGE A SH, Director,
Central T nt rC li .. e ne Agency
Bill Monroe NBC No
Ford Ro j - NBC
Ay. ' t..hrny Lewis kl e .e Yo rit Tinos
C:auOby Noyes WaKington Star
U alter Pincus - /assbing
This is a rush transcript pro-
vided for the in1roniaati m and
convenience of l e racy is not guaranteed.?: n. vase
W doubt, please check with
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M02IRROC: This is Bill M o .roe i.a, ri irc a you to MEET
Ti$ PR BSS vith George Bush;, Director of the Central. Intell:i..
Bence Agency, Mr- Bush. has been in Ai s i w job at the CIA
for three i7eeks s He wad' formes" y f3? S Aniba saador to the
United Naations A iubau sador to China, an before that : Chair-
Wall of t e Republican National C7:riAliitte(zHe _+ s a former
?r?xas Com:'ressman and unsuticessf'+O. candidate or the senate
f r'o:i that state,
We will have the first questions now from Ford Powan of
NBC News
}fR, ROWAN; Mr, Bush, the President's new program for
the Intelligence Agency seeks to prevent leaks and protect
y . ~cr. ets by making it a crime for govs r ni iant employees to leak
Lefor mation about intelligence sources and methods,
While legislation would not impose criminal
penalties on the news media, a reporter w?).o received leaked
:.nforiration would be an eyewitness to a crime and could be
ced to reveal his sources before a grand jury or go to
d
,
o
w at issue of course is whether this new procedure
ouid result in future coverups of abuses and crimes by the
CIA. Would you be willing to endorse legislation which
Id permit reporters to claim a privilege and not reveal
s been endorsed by your precedessor, William Colbye which
r sources to government investigators;
:
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 think the point I would like to make, Mr? Rowan, is that there
SIR: BUSH: :t don' `t think there is anything in the new
legislation that would change the liability or the potential
liability of a ncewsnnoaa., and I am not a lawyer. I wish I were,
in this job, My? predeceoaor was a very able lawyer, And so
I would hztve to cc nsu:_t oar own attorneys about that. But I
question them about their sources, and the change, of coursed
he would be willing to call reporters before grand juries and
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additional expoc,6:,re for news people because of this
proposed legislation or because of the regulations that "I am
instructed to pnmc?igate under the order,:
MR , ROWAN: Mr. 3ush, the Attorney General has said that
now they would be asked about a crime that they were an
eyewitness to.., Do you think this could lead to future cover-
ups,o like for example the story that appeared 14 months
ago in the New York Tines that led to the investigation of
domestic spying? Would anyone in the go::ernm,,snt have been
willing to leak that information if they thought that a grand
jury could find out their identity?
MR., BUSH-. Well, there is no change I think you are
referring to the Hearst story under this .,~ the. thi.zy that
is involved. Is sources and methods, and that will. continue
to be involved,, but that is not what was happening under
the Hearst story, So I see no change in that .apper.iricl under
the legislation that _-:s proposed by the Prasi.de.r .,
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 Approved For Release 2001/12/05 : CIA-RDP91-00901 R000100090001-0
But y Ju see, we want to w.