TESTIMONY OF RICHARD HELMS, AUGUST 2, 1973

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP91-00901R000500170002-6
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 82
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 8, 2000
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: August 2, 1973
• Content Type: TRANS

RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
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FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
PROGRAM Senate Watergate Hearings
August 2, 1973 9:30 A.M.
STATION W T O P TV
CBS Network
Washington, D.C.
TESTIMONY OF RICHARD HELMS, AUGUST 2, 1973
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News, Washington -- live coverage
of the Watergate hearings conducted by the Senate Select Committee
on Presidential Campaign Activities.
To ensure live nationwide coverage of the hearings, the
three national networks are experimenting with a rotation system
under which CBS has responsibility for today's broadcast. ABC
will broadcast the day's complete hearings Monday.
Now here are CBS News correspondents Nelson Benton anc
George Herman.
GEORGE HERMAN: Good morning from Washington. You're
looking at the Senate committee hearing room on our screen. So
far the senators are not in.
The first witness today i s supposed to be Ri chard H1cGE rrah
Helms . He was the di rector of the CIA from 1966 to 1973. Ile 's
currently the ambassador to Iran. And that's one of the reason"
that he wanted to be on rather rapidly: he's --? he came to ;Jashi nr,ton
with the Shah of Iran for his visit, but he's due back in Iran
to fulfill his duties there as amba.- [Because of network technical
difficulty at this point only static was broadcast for a minute
or two]...
NELSON BBENT011 : ...deputy di rector of the CIA wi 11 fol low
Helms. It's expected that +1r. Helms' testimony may not take al
of today.
CBS News' coverage of the Watergate hearings live froi;
Washington wi11 continue in a moment.
BE11 TO is I i chard IleIi:s has arri ved i n the Senate L:auc"s
Room notw,w. The full coi?ilili t:tee ias not ,yet a r r i ved. find uan?i el
Schorr has, though.
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DANILL SCHOER: Yes, Nelson. I think we can outline
now the three areas of interest that this committee has in Richard
Helms. And they deal with developments in 1 970 , 1 971 , and 1972.
In 1970, as has been brought out before this committee,
there i,,,as that famous plan of Tom Charles Huston to set up that
plan for surveillance and intelligence, the plan that was stoutly
opposed by the then Director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover. But
according to Huston the only one who was cooperating was Mr. Helms
of the CIA. If that was true, he was alone in the intelligence
community, apparently, in b e i n g wi l l i ng to go along wi th that plan.
If untrue, he'll have the chance to deny it today. But even though
that plan didn't go through, they did set up an intelligence evalua-
tion committee in which the CIA did cooperate. And Senator Ervin,
for one, and Senator Weicker, for two, believe very strongly that
the CIA's cooperation in that committee in itself violated the
law which bars the CIA from engaging in any domestic intelligence
in any form.
then there comes 1971 , when it. has been alleged, and
so far without very great contradiction, that Mr. Helms was the
one who provided for cooperating on the so-called "psychological
profile:' of Daniel El lsberg and may have been the one to authorize
he Ipi nn Horw,ard Hunt in getting the equipirent he needed that was
used ill the i.l isberg break - i n . And he's going to be asked about
that.
And then fi rial ly and climactically in 1972 the question
of to what extent the CIA was used in an attempt to cover up the
whole liatergate burglary, to what extent legitimately and to what
extent not. And that's a very lone and tangled story that has
been out I i ned before Other committees and will be again brought
fully here. The main issue was that it was clear that on June
22nd, less than a weel after the break-in, Helms was called to
the l,!hi to llous e al ong ,,i th his deputy, tilat there were tal ks about
possible CI i involvenr:::nt, were they responsible for the people
or could they have le,:.n responsible for `later(Jate itself. It eventually
emerged after several clays that the Clrt disowned and disclaimed
any responsibility, also disclaimed the idea that any other covert
operations of the (IA rni nht inadvertently be surfaced as a result
of ar,~ i'fil inquiry. h:It- there is an enormous tangle about that
week When there were contac-cs between Helms and the Hhit:e House
and between General J:.niters, his deputy? and General Cushman, his
deputy at the tir.;r_e, a'] of u;;ri ch will play a very important part
in todary's sessions.
i:i:HHT0N: lDa.o I suppose it's likely that tin E c,onr,mittee
,;,ill indeed qo into t , full c;nrono'lon cIl r?ergrr trite Hcii since
heH like to net hack to his post i n Iran rather than Jeaiirig
just th the Hai ert'ate ass desp?i e t. ire committee's d~ si re to
get away as soon its pi.s sibie.
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SCHORR: Yes, he -- I'm sure he would like to get away.
And I'm sure he would not like to be here. This is a matter of
intense embarrassment to him.
And while I'm at it, let me mention one thing in which
he played apparently a part that will be greeted by the committee.
In 1970, when the White House was very anxious to show -- in 1971
the Communist -- that the White House was very anxious to show,
as it was brought out yesterday in testimony, that there might
be Communist money coming in in support of demonstrations and campus
violence, the CIA made a study and provided a study to the White
House which said there was really no proof of any such thing and
that it was a terribly wild idea. That report by Helms and the
CIA was not greeted very enthusiastically by those in the White
House who wanted some establishment -- to establish some connection
between Communists, Cuba, Algeria and what was going on in this
country. And it has long been said that it was his failure to
respond to what the White House wanted that resulted in his being
eased out as Director of the CIA and sent off to Iran.
HERMAN: One of the problems, I suspect, both Nelson
and Dan, that the Senate is going to face this morning is that
some of the testimony that Hr. Helms gave, which directly contradicts
some of lair. Huston's memos and some of the other statements, was
given in executive session. It is in effect secret testimony,
although actually, if the truth be known, it is known to everybody
on the Ili 11 , it has been -- it has been printed in newspapers,
it has been said on the air; but it is, in theory at least, secret
testimony. For example, Senator Clifford Case asked lair. Helms
last February, I think i t was , February 7th , about this whole riatter,
and Helms told Senator Case that he doesn't recall whether the
CIA was ever asked to be involved in looking into domestic subversion
and the -- the peace movement and so forth. "but," he says , "wE
were not i nvol ved, because i t seemed to me it would viol ate our
charter." Well , now, all, of that was gi ven in secret testimony.
Also, shortly after that Mr. Helms left and went back -- after
at least after the Huston memos came out, IM'r. Helms left to go
back to Iran, and this is the first time the senators have had
a look at him. So they're going to have to balance their curiosity
-against what is at least theoretically secret testimony.
And we'll have to hold off our curiosity for a few moments.
CBS News coverage of the Watergate hearing live from Washington
wi 11 resume i n a few moments .
HERMAN: Senator Lrvin is on his way in, as you can si. e
I'll just remind you that the witness is Ri chard Helms , former
Di rector of the CIA, not,., the ambassador to Iran , and that he is
supposedly oriclinally was scheduled to be on the witness sta.-d
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for approximately half a day, like the other CIA men involved here,
Nelson, but so far the record of having any witness on for only
half a day has not been too good.
Senator Ervin has taken his place.
BENTON: Senator Ervin and vice chairman Baker arrived
after. I wonder if they had any -- well, we're find out: there's
the gavel.
SENATOR SAN ERVIN: The committee will come to order.
I am constrained to make some remarks concerning a member of this
committee, Senator Danny Inouye of Hawaii. Senator Inouye is a --
an American, native-born American, of Japanese ancestry. I don't
know a finer American. He showed his devotion to our country by
fighting under its flag not only for the liberty of our country
but for the liberty of the free world in the Second World War.
He suffered severe wounds which necessitated the amputation of
his right arm. He was decorated with the Distinguished Service
Cross for extraordinary heroism in action with an armed enemy of
the United States. And I -- and he's proved himself in the Sen- --
in latter days as one of the most dedicated Americans this country
has ever known. And I feel that events of yesterday make it appropriate
for me to make these remarks concerning a member of this committee
who's proved hisself one of the most gallant of all Americans in
this history of this Republic.
SENATOR EDWARD [1 KER: Mr. Chairman.
SENATOR ERVIN: senator Baker.
SENATOR FAKER: I r. Chairman, may I say that I've known
Lanny Inouye since I've bc?n in the Senate. And there's no man
I think is more loyal and cedicated to his country. I don't know
of anyone on this committee who's made a greater contribution to
its efforts than Senator Jrcuye. I have a great affection for
him, as well as a greet adn i rati on for him. We are i n a tensi on-
filled atmosphere, and it's unfortunate that things of this sort
occur.. I think a nark of Venator Inouye's greatness is that I
am sure it will not affect his further consideration of the matters
that are brought to our attention. I am sorry that the events
of thm last several days have occurred. I hope and think that
it wi i 1 not affect the objectivity and the effici&ncy and the effectiveness
of this committee. And I commend you, Mr. Chairman, for bringing
that matter to the attenti cn of the official record. And I believe
now it's behind us and we can get on with the business at hand.
Thank you, sir.
HERMAJ: They're talking about a reference to a remark
by John Wilson jestercometim on that weekend
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I received a telephone call from Mr. Howard Osborne, the director
of security, to inform me that -- of the names of the individuals
who had participated.1n the break-in and also to say that Hr. Hunt,
in some fashion, was connected with it. Mr. Osborne's call to
me was a perfectly routine matter. There was a charge on him as
director of security to inform me whenever anybody in the agency
got in any kind of trouble, whether they're present employees or
past employees, in other words, right now, so that I didn't have
to catch up with these events like suicides and house break-ins
and rapes and the various things that happen to the employees of
any organization in a city like Washington, so this was a perfectly
routine thi ng. And when he heard about these ex-CIA people who
had been involved in this burglary, he called we up and notified
me about it. On Monday, when I came to the office, there'd been
no mention in the papers of Hr. Hunt, so I got ahold of Ar. Osborne
and said, "How come you told me that fir. hunt was involved wit-in
this?" And he said, "jell, there were some papers found in the
hotel room, or one of the hotel rooms, with Hunt's name on it,
and it looks as though he were somewhere in the area when the break-
in took place." So I said, All right.'"
And from then on, obviously, there were various conversations
in the agency. We went to work on various requests from the FBI
for information about the people and their background and so forth
who had fornerly been imployed by the agency.
DORSON: Am I correct that James McCord also was a former
employee of the agency?
HELMS: He was.
DORSON : And when did Mr. McCord and Mr. Hunt leave the
employ of the agency?
HELMS: They left it at different times in 1970. They
both retired, as I recall it.
DORSOIl: Now, directing your attention to June 22nd,
1972, which was the day before your meeting with Mr. Ehrl i chman,
Hr. Haldeman and General Walters at the White House, did you have
a conversation with Patrick Gray on that afternoon, namely, the
afternoon of June 22nd?
HELMS: I believe that the committee is in possession
of a memorandum which says that -- a memorandum or a note from
Mr. Gray that says I had this conversation. I have no reason to
question that at all. I was talking back and forth with Hr. Gray
at various times in connection with this Watergate break-in, so
I have no reason to doubt that there was one on the 22nd of June.
DOMSON: In these conversations, did you discuss the
possibility of CIA involvement in the break-in?
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HELMS: I assured Mr. Gray that the CIA had no involvement
in the break-in, no involvement whatever, and it was my preoccupation
consistently from then to this time, to make this point and to
be sure that everybody understands it. It doesn't seem to get
across very well for some reason, but the agency had nothing to
do with the Watergate break-in. I hope all the newspapermen in
the room hear me clearly now.
DORSON: Ambassador Helms, I'd like to move, then, to
June 23rd, 1972, and ask you if you recall attending the meeting
with Mr. Ehrl i chman, Mr. Haldeman and General Walters?
HELMS: I do recall attending that meeting.
DORSON: Where was that meeting held?
HELMS: That meeting was held in Mr. Ehrlichman's off-ice
on the second floor of the East -?- West Wing of the White House.
DORSON: Do you recall the time of that meeting?
HELMS: The meeting had been originally scheduled for
12 o'clock. It was changed to 1 o'clock, and it took place shortly
after 1 o'clock.
DOR SOU: Could you please describe to us, in substance
what happened at that meeting?
HELMS: General Walters and I arrived first and waiter
for a few minutes . Then iir. Hal derian and Mr. Ehrl i chman came i rto
the room. As best I can recall what was said, and MMr. Haldeman
did most of the talking, so --- and whatever ir. Ehrlichman contribu-
ted in the course of this was either to nod his head or to smile
or to agree with what tMr. Haldeman said. I just simply want to
introduce it this way because then it's a little bit easier for
me to describe. Mr. Haldeman said there was a lot of flat: about
the llatergatr:: burglary. that the opposition was capitalizing on
it, but that it was going to -- it was apparently causinn some
sort of unidentified trouble, and he wanted to know whether the
agency had anything to do with it. I assured hi rn that the agenc"'
had nothing to do with i t. tie than said that the five Tien who
had been found i n the ber;iocrati c Kati oval Conir:ii ttee Headquarters
had been arresta_d, and that that seemed to be adequate, under th
ci reui,istances , that the f=C1 was i rI vesti gq ati r,r what this was al l
about, and that they, unidcntifiad, were concerned about sonic FB
investigations in i~cxiCO. He also at that tiiiie made some., what
to me was an i ncoiierent reference to an i oves ti coati on it) M'Mexi co
an FBI i nvesti ation -- running into 0c ~guy of Pigs. I don t
know what the reference was al leclfod to he, but, in any event, I
ass ured him that I had r,o iinterest i n the Bay of Pigs that many
years 1 ater, that everythi r,r i n ccnnecti on to that had been ci,.;!l t,
with or liquidated , as far as I was aware, and I didn't ca re tire,.'
ran into in connection with teat. ;Mt s o r i e juncture in this convc rrsa..
ti on, 1?1r. Haldeman then said something to the effect that it has
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b een decided that General Walters will go and talk to Acting Director
Gray of the FBI and indicate to him that these operations -- that
these investigations of the FBI might run into CIA operations in
Mexico and that it was desirable that this not happen and that
the investigation therefore should be either tapered off or reduced
or something, but there was no language saying stop, as far as
I recall. At this point, the references to Mexico were quite unclear
to me. I had to recognize that if the White House -- the President,
Mr. Haldeman, somebody in high authority -- had information about
something in Mexico, which I did not have information about, which
is quite possible. The White House constantly has information
which others cor't have -- that it would be a prudent thsrg for
me to find out if there wn, kept a:,-,ay from the official custodian for 48 hours. Would
yoi :)nsid2r that proper?
HELMS: I world not consider ghat proper.
SENAIOR INOUYE: I thank you eery much, sir.
S NATO; ERVI'd: Senator Gurnee.
SE NATOR EDWI\ tD GURNEY: Mr. -A:ibassador, what were Hunt's
af??i; of at the C] i?
IIEELI? I S: Senator Gurney, he t-r.a?. with the agency for many
y3 t - ; and tai a ': )riety of assignments.
SN,AL1)~t GiJRN =Y: You might p 1 1 that mike over.. .
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HELMS: I'm sorry. I didn't move it over for you.
I beg your pardon.
Had a variety of assignments, and I honestly think it
would be putting my memory to too much of a test to remember what
they all were. I remember there was one that he had -- some assignment
in connection with the operations leading up to the so-called Bay
of Pigs. But this is readily available in the agency. You could
get his personnel record, and then it would be accurate.
SENATOR GURNEY: Oh, I'm not interested in a detailed
account. I wondered if his areas were in the sort of work that
he was doing on June 17th?
HELMS: It would be hard for me to recall. I don't --
but I'd -- I just don't remember.
SENATOR GURNEY: How often does the CIA help out fori;rer
employees in the loan of equipment, as in the case of Mr. Hunt?
HELMS: Well, I can only say, Senator Gurney, that this
was an extraordinary exception, and it was done because we had
been asked to do it by the White House.
knowledge?
SENATOR GURNEY: Has it ever been done before, to your
HELMS: Not to my knowledge.
SENATOR GURNEY: Well, has it -- do you think it has
been done before without your knowledge?
HELMS: This is always possible, Senator Gurney. It's
a large organization. I would hope not, but I can't say that is
had never been done, no, of course not.
SENATOR GURNEY: But at least no other CIA person has
said to you that, yes, we did this on some other occasion with
so-and-so.
HELMS: I don't recall that having been said to me.
SENATOR GURNEY: Since this was such an unusual requ,-st,
why did the CIA go ahead and cooperate with Hunt?
HELMS: Well, General Cushman had already authorized
this, as I understood at the time, on the basis of Mr. [hrlichm?,l,n
having asked that the agency help. At that time, as I recall i=,
he was -- General Cushman vias simply told that this was for him
to conduct an interview, We had no way of knowing whether it w-s
an interview in the United States or an interview overseas. It
had already been done by the time I learned about it, and the...
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told you?
SENATOR GURNEY: What was your reaction when Cushman
HELMS: Well, I was not pleased about it because I didn't
quite understand why it was that he couldn't have acquired these
things someplace else.
SENATOR GURNEY: Well, I must say that same thought
occurs to me. If these were routine items of apparatus, the White
House would certainly have resources enough to get those themselves.
HELMS: I would have thought so, Senator Gurney. I
isave harried --e I learned when I came back here in May that there
were some other things given to him, such as a voice changer or
something, and I believe a wig has become almost legendary in this
whole matter, but I don't recall anything about the wig at the
time, but I don't question that it was done.
SENATOR GURNEY: Did General Cushman ever ask him, "Now,
Mr. Hunt, what do you want these things for? What are you going
to use them for?"
hELMS: Well, General Cushman told me, as I recall it,
was that. he wanted this for a one-time interview, but General Cushman
can certainly attest to these things for himself.
SENATOR GURNEY: But he didn't tell anything to you.
I{EL1,1S: And at that time, I think it's only fair to
remember, that nobody had ever suggested that anybody was going
to do anything illegal or impro per.
SENATOR GURNEY: I understand. But it's such an unusual
request., I'm really surprised that no one had a. little more curiosity
about what was qoi ng to be done.
HELMS: Well, it was a very high-let-el White House official
who wags asking for thi,=, help, and WIC, tried to help, and it didn't
seem that it was going to do anybody any great harm.
SENATOR GUREJEY: I guess probably your answer would
be the same to !Mir. Young's request about the profile.
EIELMS: 'Yes , I have genuine regrets about being pressured
,
into that. On ~Alonday ;..orrrina the, rc- are a lot of footb,a I!'; games
that if played a(laiII might have bec:ri Inlayed differently, arid, you
know. I"'m not proud of that one.
N AT O GU EY: There r1er e, Of cour"Se, those conversations
with Ha1dewan and Ehrlichman which you have described, and Mr.
Halters, I (juess, had athens that he reported to you about, and
r:hen i.h(' conversati;)ns with Mr. Cyrry. And then, of course, the
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hall 11011Cy and saIarius while poopI( night bbe n prison. Did
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about this time and advise him of these very unusual things that
were going on in the White House?
HELMS: Well, sir, my preoccupation at that time and
all through these months was to keep the agency at a distance from
this whole problem, and when I saw -- realized that these feelers
were being made -- there was never a proposal made. It was never
said, "Will you do this?" It was suppository. You know, "Would
it be possible? Is this something that could happen?" And so
forth. And since we had stood firm, it seemed to me that that
was adequate under the circumstances.
SENATOR GURNEY: Well, I certainly commend you for that,
and you did do the right thing in keeping the agency out of it.
In the phone call with Mr. Gray, which you had, did you think in
this phone conversation that he was trying to involve the CIA in
any way?
HELMS: I didn't have that sensation, Senator Gurney.
The sensation I had was I couldn't quite understand why it was
that he kept thinking that the CIA was somehow involved. Now,
what generated this on his part, I don't know to this day, quite
honestly, but it seemed strange that he should -- well, we seem
to be running into some CIA involvement. And I couldn't understand
what he was talking about or how he knew this because I couldn't
see any involvement, I couldn't find any involvement. And what
motivated this, I don't know, and I honestly don't know even no,wr.
SENATOR GURNEY: One final question. Mr. Thompson went
over this with you, but I'm asking another question, and that of
course if this business of whether Haldeman and Ehrlichrian were
making their requests, or Mr. Dean, for that matter, at the request
of the President of the United States. And I don't want to go
over that testimony again. I've heard it. But let me ask you
this. In all of these transactions between you and these peopl,~,
and Walters and these people, that were later reported to you,
did you get any idea at all that President Nixon was involved in
any cover-up here and wanting to use the CIA in the cover-up?
HELMS: President Nixon was not put forward by any of
these people in their discussions. They were conducting their on
their own, as far as I was aware. Implicit in this was the fact
that I was talking to the President's chief of staff, and what
conversations he had with the President, he never said, but he
was such a senior official that I had to assume that this was something
that they ww.wanited done.
'SIENATOR GU tNEY: ThanE: you, Mr. Ambassador. That's
all, Mr. Chairman.
SENATOR ER`dIti: Senator Talmadge.
SENATOR HERMAN TALMAGE : Mr. Ambassador, you've had
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a long and distinguished career, both as a member of the CIA for
many years and ultimately its director for more than six years,
and now as a distinguished ambassador representing the government
of the United States.. Will you tell us why you left as Director
of the Central Intelligence Agency?
HELMS: I had a conversation with the President after
the election. I believe it was on November the 20th at Camp David.
And we talked about my future, and he indicated that he wanted
to make a change, and this was in the context of making a lot of
changes in the administration. I was at that time pushing 60 and
about to come what we had in the agency as the regular retirement
age. This is not a statutory thing, but T had a policy in the
agency that when officials got to be 60 that they retired. And
this therefore seemed a good time to do this. That was why I left.
then.
SENATOR TALMDAGE: You did not leave on your own initiative,
HELMS: I did not submit my resignation in the form
of -- obviously, the President always has your resignation. You
do serve at the pleasure of the President for the time being.
That's what the commission says, so that this was a mutually-arrived-
at arrangement.
SENATOR TALMDAGE: You didn't have any impression that
you had been pushed out?
HELMS: Well, it wasn't put to me that way, anyway.
SENATOR TALMADGE: In other words, when the President
makes a suggestion, you don't have to determine whether you're
being pushed, shoved or led, do you? Would that be an affirmative
answer? [No audible response.] Thank you, sir.
Did the White House contact you for a reference when
they employed Mr. Hunt? `
HELMS: No, sir.
SENATOR TALMADGE: Didn't you think that was strange
to employ an ex-representative of the CIA without checking on his
credentials with the director of that agency?
HELMS: I did, Senator Talmadge. In fact I went to
some trouble at the time to see if anybody else in the ac ncy had
been checked with other than me. In other words, had they
to the personnel office, had they gone to the security office?
And I established there'd been no contact made with the agency
anywhere about Mr. Hunt.
SENATOR TALEi:ADGE: No contact whatever?
HELMS: None.
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SENATOR TALMADGE: Now, what was your reaction when
Mr. Young came to you in the summer of 1971 and informed you that
the President's assistant, Mr. Ehrlichman, had assigned him to
lead a White House investigation of security leaks? Were you surprised
that that was being handled outside the FBI?
HELMS: I suppose that I was, Senator Talmadge, but
there had been so much talk about leaks and so much concern about
them in this particular era, that I suppose that what would have
been normal surprise was somewhat dulled by this fact that maybe
they weren't getting very far in establishing how these leaks had
occurred, and this was somewhat of an extra effort to get into
this.
SENATOR TALMADGE: Didn't J. Edgar...
HELMS: I want to say to you now that I never dreamed
that this was going to lead to a kind of an activist role. I thought
this was pulling the material together and doing those things which
for years had been done in the government. This is not the first
President who's been concerned about leaks. That's been a kind
of an endemic and chronic concern in the White House ever since
I can remember.
SENATOR TALMADGE: Didn't J. Edgar Hoover have a reputation
for running a pretty tight ship?
HELMS: He did.
SENATOR TALMADGE: And an efficient organization.
HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR TALI%iADGE: And anything relating to a domestic
activity, the FBI normally handled.
HELMS: They did, and he insisted on it.
SENATOR TALMADGE: And you insisted on handling the
foreign activity.
HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR TALMADGE: And you had a perfectly valid agreement
between the two of you as to who would encroach on what actiivit-ies
or not encroach on them, did you not?
HELMS: did, Senator Talmadce.
S,,-- P, -iOR TA.LMADGE: And it worked very well.
HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR TALMADG[: And you think in the national interest.
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HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR TALMADGE: Now, when they requested of you that
you do this psychological profile of Dr. Ellsberg, how could such
a profile be made if psychiatric records were not obtained?
HELMS: Well, sir, there's a question of terminology,
Senator Talmadge, about this. The pscyhological profiles which
the agency had been doing on foreign individuals were not based
on psychiatric records, they were based on general intelligence
infromation, and from this information and from interviews and
things of that kind, all this material was put tog tfher and an
tJrfori as ;ride to drEr a profile of this man as to what kind of
a human beinc he was. Eut there was never implicit in this Over
that yoc had to have Esychiat.ric material it order to do it.
SFNATOR 1ALt A.DCE: In other words, you didn't have to
put him on the couch.
the couch.
HELMS: No, sir. And none of them ever were put on
SENATOR TAI 1PDCE: I believe yc u testified that the
only involver! Ent the (]A had ir this ent:ir e operation was to provide
a tape recorc er arrc a camera to hr. Young.
HUMS: Sit, that was to Mr. Hint.
SENATOR TAt hADCE: Nr. Hunt. Inc that was dare at a
request from Nr.. E:h ri i c hman?
HELMS: MY recollection of ha that he E. i ened was
and GE nc ral Cushman , 1 believe, will be hoc re sortly cerg thing. I am uonsut,:d by curiosity lWirat else v.as going
on? What w?s it u,,.ed f0`2
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HELMS: Senator Baker, all of this is in your records.
All of these memoranda, all of the inquiry of these various indivi-
duals in the CIA, you have it there. The fact is that...
SENATOR BAKER: Stacks of paper. No part of that
record tells me what those things were used for, if we exclude
the El1sberg situation.
HELMS: I don't know what they were used for.
SENATOR BAKER: Well, what I'm say is, why don't you
know? Why didn't you find out?
HELMS: Because I thought, frankly, that when these
individuals had been arrested that that was the FBI's job.
SENATOR BAKER: And so did the White House. Thank
HELMS: Wasn't it the FBI's job?
SENATOR BAKER: Well, maybe it was. But I've used
the analogy once or twice, and I feel a little ill at ease using
it, i f I had someone on my staff who was caught red-handed robb,,ng
a jewelry story, let alone the Democratic National Committee he~ldquarters,
and I read about it in the newspaper then or later, I have a hunch
that I would have jumped up and down and screamed until I found
out what happened.
HELMS: I have no reason to question that you might've,
SENATOR BAKER: But I have no reason to question thzt
you might've, too. And that's why I'm asking why you didn't,
because I have a great admiration for you, Mr. Helms. I think
you are an extraordi nary citizen. I think you've done extraordinary
service for your country.
HELMS: You know, I'd like to be worthy of your comnents,
Senator Baker; and I trust that I an. But at the time that these
men were arrested, it' did not seem to mc. that it was the proper
thing for me to get into that affair as to why they had been arrested
or their past.
at the time?
SENATOR BAKER: It just didn't seem like a big event
HELMS: No, it was a -- it was a big event, but it
did not seeiii to me that it was a proper job for me to undertake
to investigate how they'd gotten there or why they'd been arrested.
SENATOR BAKER: All right. Lest I be misunderstood,
Mr. Helms, I -- Mr. Ambassador, I now continue to have -- and
nothing I've asked you by way of testing the situation by your
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evidence should imply anything to the contrary -- I continue to
have an enormous respect and admiration for you for what you've
done and what you will do. And I appreciate your testimony.
Thank you.
HELMS: Thank you.
SENATOR ERVIN: One -- one question. Couldn't you
have -- couldn't you have reached -- or did you draw the conclusion
that if you had undertaken to investigate the burglarizing of
the Watergate that that would have been inconsistent with the
prohibition of the act under which you operate that you haven't --
the CIA has no function in respect to internal security?
HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR BAKER: Well, Mr. Chairman, I'm not talking
about that. I'm -- I'm talking about investigating his own staff
within his own organization. And that certainly doesn't violate
any domestic security prohibition.
SENATOR ERVIN: No. But -- but didn't you testify
that you did investigate inside of the CIA...
HELMS: Yes , sir.
SENATOR ERVIN: ...and turned over the information
to the FBI?
HELMS: And -- yes, sir, and also .,you have it in the
records of this coinrni ttee .
SENATOR ERVIN: Any further questions?
SENATOR WEICKER: [Words unintelligible] because an
analogy has been drawn and I think it is proper to pursue it.
On June 17, 1972, was I'Ir. Hunt a member of the CIA, a part of
the CIA?
HELMS: No, he was not, Senator.
SENATOR WLICKLR: Was qtr. Liddy a part of the CIA?
HELMS: No, Senator Wei cker.
SENATOR WLICKLRR: Was PMir. barker a part of the CIA?
HELMS : I Jo , Senator.
SLNI\iOR Ut ILKEI,: Was IIr. McCord part of the CIA?
IlLLFIS: Nn, sir.
SLNATUR WI-TICKER: Was Fir. -- now -- Martinez a part
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of the CIA?
HELMMM1S: Mr. Martinez was getting a retainer of $100
a month on a fiduciary relationship; he was not a staff employee
of the CIA.
SENATOR WEICKER: Which -- which operation was down
in Florida insofar as screening those persons coming over from
Cuba and ascertaining as to whether or not they should be -- would
be -- have an intelligence value?
HELMS: Yes, sir.
SENATOR WEICKER: Mr. Sturgis -- was he a member of
the CIA?
HELMS: No, sir, not at that time.
SENATOR WEICKER: And Mr. Gonzalez, was he a member
of the CIA?
HELMS: No, sir.
SENATOR WEICKER: Mr. Baldwin -- was he a member of
the CIA?
HELMS : No , sir.
SENATOR WEICKER: Mr. Barker -- was he a member of
the CIA?
HELMS: No, si r.
SENATOR WEICKER: So apparently the only member of
the CIA in all of these matters on June 17, 1972, was Mr. Martinez,
who was on a $100 retainer clown in Florida relevant to the s cre,,ni ng
of Cuban exiles?
IIELPMIS: That's correct, Senator Weicker.
SENATOR WEICKER: And did you -- did you turn over
the records of these men to the FBI?
HELMS: Yes , sir.
SENATOR WEICKER: When?
HELMS: As soon as -- well, I don't know the precise
SENATOR WEICKER:. Right.
HELMS: ... but the FBI started inquiring of the agency
about the backgrounds of these men as soon as these men had been
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arrested and we started providing the information from that day.
SENATOR WEICKER: I have no further questions.
THOMPSON: I can't -- if ?-- if -- 'if I understand
the analogy, and I'm not sure that I do, but perhaps your idea
is in that because these were former CIA employees and not present
CIA employees, that that some way would relieve you of the responsibility
you might otherwise have. Is that a fair...
HELMS: Yes, I think so. I think, Mr. Thompson, that
I should make it clear, because I was asked at another hearing
one time, when an individual resigns or retires from the CIA that's
the end of his identification with the agency as far as we're
concerned. Certainly under American laws one has no way of keeping
a string on people like this.
THOMPSON : Uh-hirh .
HELMS: So when they walk out the door and they turn
in their badge, then their employment with the agency is finished
unless some sort of a contractual or fiduciary relationship is
established with them. This was not the case with these others
except for Martinez.
THOMPSON: Well , I -- I can see that. And as long
as we're talking about analogies,, I'm not reaching any conclusion
but just really thinking aloud, by the same token there 1,!ere no
present White House, emrloyees involved in the break-in, either.
They were also former :employees. So i f we have an analogy, I
imagine that analogy still holds up.
Thank you.
SENATOR Ei?Il,: "J e -- we'll be back at two o'clock.
lde' 1 I recess ti l 1 two o'clock . [Senator Ervi n' s next remarks
are last in the general hubbub. Then the raps the gavel.]
SENATOR ERVIN: The committee will come to order.
I Words uni ritel l i gi bl e Jue to techni cal di ffi cul t.y] ...will resume
the i ntcrrocgati on of the Wi tress
WORSEN: Thank V0U, MMMr. Chairman. Ambassador Mel ins
!'ho b,'as the normal cc, n ,act frorl the limit to House to the (. IA?
IIEL.HS: Dr. Kissi ncler.
WORSEN: there much contact bet:w c en I` r. tri i cl1r!lan
or Mr. Ha'I dc:,man and thr CII ?
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HELMS: There was some -- of course, not nearly as
much. There was more with Mr. Ehrl i chman than there was with
Mr. Haldeman.
DORSEN: Can you give some -- give us some idea of
the number of contacts between Mr. Ehrlichman and the CIA during
the time you were Director?
HELMS: That would be difficult, Mr. Counsel, because
I don't know any way to come up with the statistic. I suppose
that I've had a dozen or so contacts with him myself over a period
of three or four years.
DORSEN: And were many of these requests for information
or requests that the CIA do something?
HELMS: Well, there were a variety of things. There
were meetings that I attended that tvlr. Ehrlichman called. I recall
one particular activity. When the White House was redoing the
method of classification of documents and devising some new procedures
for declassifying documents , there were some meetings in order
to rewrite these regulations, and I remember attending at least
one -- it may have been two.
DORSEN: Now, in connection with the request in July
of 1971 for the CIA to furnish support for t 1r. Hunt, it is your
understanding, is it not, that Mr. Ehrlichman contacted General
Cushman? Is that correct?
HELMS: That was my distinct impression.
DORSET! : And in June of 1972, when you were at the
meeting in Mr. Ehrl i chman's office, am I correct that it was Mr.
it was General Walters who was asked to go to Patrick Gray by
Mr. Eh rl i chman?
HELMS: He was asked by Mr. Haldeman.
DORSEN: Excuse me. By Mr. Haldeman.
HELMS: 1'es .
DORSEN: Did You make any connection, then or subsequently,
conicrni ng the fact that the two deputies who were asked to part i c:i .-
pate in the fashion described were both military men?
HELMS: Well, I didn't whether it had to do wi th the-
fact they were military men or they were particular appointees
of this administration or just exactly whether they were old fri ends
and therefore it seemed to be easier to deal with them. I realiv
don't know which of these considerations loomed the largest.
DO RSEN: Now, were you aware prior to the May 22,
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1972, announcement by the President of the organization known
as "the plumbers" or the fact there was such an organization in
the White House?
HELMS:
You mean the May 22,
1973?
DORSEN:
Excuse me. '73.
HELMS:
I'd never heard of a "plumbers" unit.
DORSEN: Were you familiar with an investigative unit
in the White House?
HELMS: I didn't know there was any unit at the White
House that was actively carrying out, if you like, burglaries
or activist activities of this kind.
DORSEN: Now, with respect to the material supplied
to Howard Hunt, you referred to the wig as a fairly famous item.
Was the wig that was supplied to Mr. Hurst by the CIA the same
wig allegedly worn by Hunt, the red wig, when he saw Dita Beard?
HELMS: I have been told in recent times that the
wi (l provided by the agency was a brunette wig, i t was dark hai r
anyway, and that some of the agency technicians rather resented
the f act that the red t# i g had been tied i n wi th the CIA because
it was such a lousy fi L.
[Laughter]
DORSEN: Mr. Helms --- Ambassador Helms, are you familiar
with the memorandum for which there was a covering routing s l i p
from (general Cushman to you with the date August 23, 1971 , on
i t?
HELMS: Yes.'
DORSEN Can we sho.'r the...
HELMS: Excuse rne. If indeed __ this is indeed the
rnemora.ndum that you showaed me
DO i%SEN: That's correct.
1.)i d we sho,,, t h i s?
And I'c just like tr:o have you identify it, plea.se.
DEL MS : Yc , I am f am-i 1 i a r wi th the me i oranduilr.
() )i'. S L i!. E ]u,l d excuse r,e . Could you -- I' d like
the ambassador to ho l