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Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 SECRET ORCON/NOFORN INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROJECT SESSION REPORT CLASSIFIED BY: Director, DIA REvev ON: 1 Nov 99 EXTENDED BY: Director, DIA REASON: 2-301-C (3) (6) Approved For ReleasSE : CcigilidLCT4th-A. is 50001-5 SG1A Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Next 1 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 P Approved ForRelease2000/08/07 : Cl t B,DP96-00788R000100150001-5 SEM 1 SG1A TRANSCRIPT REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION C 79 #66 This will be a remote viewing session (edited for security). PAUSE The area of interest today is designated by the geographic coordinants: PAUSE We are interested in the large building that you know well in that area. I want you now to focus your attention on the picture that you have in front of you. That you drew previously. Let your consciousness move now to 1 January 1980, where you got this picture. Focus your attention on that same area 1 January 1980. In which you were able to perceive what you've drawn in this picture. Relax and concentrate. Focus your attention. Focus, Focus and describe the target to me. PAUSE #1 A lot of submarines... #66 Go on. #1 About 4 submarines...a bay (mumbling) #66 Tell me about these submarines. EApproved For Release 2000/ ECRIDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/ 6-00788R000100150001-5 #1 They're working on one of them. #66 Tell me about the submarine they're working on. PAUSE #1 They're working on some tubes. #66 Tell me about this work. +05 #1 They're hanging tubes over the submarine. They're putting the tubes in the submarine. #66 How is this accomplished? #1 They're...uh...they're on the tubes and the...uh... into a work area inside the submarine. Looks like a room. Some kind of a room. They're stacking them together. They're putting them on their ends. There are holes in the floor. They go through a section of floor in the submarine. It doesn't make sense. They got holes in the floors and the tube slides through the holes...go through the floor...and the #66 Tell me about, where you are, where you're perceiving this. What's your position now? #1 I'm inside the submarine. #66 Very good. Tell me more about the tubes. #1 (Mumbling)...they got these tube shapes and they're coming through the ceiling and they go on through holes in the floor. #66 Walk down by the holes in the floor and tell me about them. #1 They are...uh...they are built to be there, and...uh ...these tubes are like a...some kind of things. They're pipe pipe tubes. They +08 look like big stove pipes...and there's a...looks like a large piece on the top end that isn't there. There's a connector piece on the top and there's something that's not a piece is missing on the top. There's all new ...all new floor. r-- Approved For Release 2000/08/ 2 000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 rgrATT #66 Is this the floor that you're standing on? 41 Yes. Somehow... #66 Move along the tubes. Tell me about the work that's happening. What stage is the work in now? #1 They're all new...they're...uh...I can't tell. They're...uh...I've seen these tubes finished. What they're putting them in...I can't make sense out of it.. +10 #66 Why doesn't it make sense to you? #1 'Cause I'm seeing the tubes one minute and I'm not seeing the tubes. They're going through the top. They're being lowered...but when you walk passed them they're there...they're all there. #66 OK. You will have to fix your attention on one moment in time. You have to fix your attention on one moment in time. #1 OK. #66 How far along are they? How long before they will be throughwiht this that they are doing? #1 Long time. They're working very carefully. #66 It's 1121.7..14.2allazy..12.9.2,. You say it will take them a long time. #1 kybe 4 months. Over 100 read days. #66 On the work right now or on the total modification? #1 They're...uh...(mumbling) #66 How much of this work has been done from the 100 days it takes them to do this work? How much has been done on this one submarine that they're working on. #1 Uh...they...theyVe done almost all of the work. 100 days it takes. 3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07kIllib 96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/ 11 DP96-00788R000100150001-5 ' #1 I don't know. This is an older sub. Older submarine. It takes longer with a...with a... it's a different submarine. #66 Where is your perspective now? #1 I'm seeing work done on submarines. I'm seeing a bunch of submarines. Different submarines. #66 Focus your attention now, back on the submarine that we were examining. Fix your attention back on that one submarine. #1 OK. #66 What's your position of observation. +13 #1 I am looking down. Looking on a deck. I am upside down looking on a deck. #66 Tell me more so that I can understand where you are. #1 I am looking at the tubes, where they go in the deck. They go all the way into the deck and the...the..uh.. top pieces, such things are missing. There's top sections, and they are missing. #66 How far down do the tubes go? #1 All the way to the bottom of the submarine. #66 Move inside the tube and describe its dimensions. #1 As far as you could reach. Four feet wide... #66 If you float sideways in the tube, can you fit your whole body sideways in the tube? #1 No. #66 Alright. Can you reach it with your finger tips? +15 #1 Yes. I get the sensation that it's a liner ...a metal liner. I am looking through this metal liner in the bottom and I am seeing a pin rack suspension thing. It's's a...some kind of 4 Approved For Release 2000/0k1 DP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 SECRET's like some kind of outlets or something. Bottom side of the tubes. They don't make any sense. #66 Where are you now? #1 I'm looking up the tube from the bottom. They're very, very tall....(mumbling)...I'm very far down in the tube. #66 I want you to concentrate now, and try to be very accurate. You told me previously, in another session, that these were not vertical but that they were slanted slightly. I'd like to know, if you'd like to describe that again. Tell me what your feeling is now about these tubes? 40 #1 Feel they're slanted in the the water they.11.2 not slanted. They're vertical to the earth but slanted on the 417. I don't understand that. They're... they're installed slanted but they're vertical. #66 For what purpose is this slant? +19 #1 They're longer. The tube is longer. Something about the end of the tube. #66 Which end of the tube? #1 Top end of the tube. They have to be longer to clear the top end of the tube. Something like that. #66 Now we are going to move into another area of perspective and I'd like to give you the opportunity to say anything at this time about this particular submarine, at this location, at this time, 1 January 1980. We will then move to another area, but at this time I'd like you to look at this. Is there anything you would like to add? #1 It's an old submarine. #66 What makes you say it's an old submarine? 5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07: CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 vow Approved For Release 2000/08 Approved For Release 2000/0 -RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #1 Something I sense. #66 Tell me about this sense. #1 I have a sense of age with this submarine. A sense that it is being a...being made well or it is being made better, or something. It is having its utility extended. I don't know why I said it that way, but that is very close to why. Its utility is being extended. Something very important about that phrase. It is a very accurate phrase. It is just an older submarine. #66 What is the principal event of today, 1 January 1980? #1 Uh...there is a...they are doing more work in the building. It is being done in the bays. That is a lot of detail work. Finished work. +23 #66 What makes you say finished work? 41 I don't know. Like a difficult...difficult work is over. Heavy mill work is finished. It is quieter work. #66 OK. Now I would like to change your perspective.... #1 I am seeing something new and I don't understand what it is, wait. It is a...appears to be some kind of a ...some kind of a vent. Let's go on. #66 What was this that you saw? #1 Some kind of a vent. I was trying to find it alright. Don't know where it was. It was a vent. A strange looking vent. Like the top of the sail has a vent. #66 The top of the sail has a vent. #1 A recessed vent, or a hole of some kind. I can't ...some kind of recessed or hole. #66 OK. Is there anything else about the sail that you would like to tell me at this time? 6 RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 SECRET #1 You can only walk around the side of the sail. You can't walk around the front or the top but you can walk around the the rear of the sail. +26 #66 OK. Anything else? #1 There's a ladder on the back of the sail, and there's a...there's a stand up door on the sail. That's all. That's all I can see. #66 Alright. Is there anything you would like to add? #1 No. No. I felt very bad when I was on the very bottom of the tubes. #66 Describe your bad feeling. #1 Intense excitement. I wanted to get out of the bottom of the tubes. They had very strong sensation of high pressure. #66 OK. What's your perspective, right now? #1 It's side of the submarine. #66 OK. I have one other question now before we move. Disregarding data that you've told us before and concentrating only on this submarine, right where you are right now, 1 January 1980, I am interested in knowing how man ,tubes there are. #1 Eighteen tubes. Eighteen tubes. See eighteen tubes. #66 Are they all in place at the present time? 4/-K4/ 4r41 #1 - , They are, yes. I'm not sure what time I'm seeing the submarine. They're all in place. When I count them +30 they are all there. Smooth, smooth holes. I don't understand it but they are smooth holes. #66 Alright. Remember now so that you can draw. I would like to move now. I would like to move now to an alternate perspective. When you are ready to move, let me know. 7 SUET Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #1 OK. #66 Alright. I want you to move now up in the air approximately 100 feet in the air, now 200 feet in the air, now 300 feet in the air, now 400 feet up and now 500 feet up. #1 OK. #66 Now describe what you see, 1 January 1980. #1 I see a...I see a large building. I see a intur494.1.44i1+ on the right. Large building attached to it on the right side. I see awharf4aLEA:144- on the left side. There's no ships on the wharf at all. It's empty. #66 Alright. And what is directly below you? #1 Oh, below me is a like a parking maze, a shed type roof, but it's all inclosed. Looks new. #66 Alright. Now, we're going to take a different perspective. I want you to hold your position, hold your position at 500 feet above this area. I perceive you to be at the west end of the large cement building, 500 feet in the air. Do you confirm that? #1 I don't know which way is the west. #66 Alright. #1 I'm in...over the large building at the end by the water. #66 Alright. Fine. Holding your position now, holding firm, I want you to close your eyes now and everything goes blank, holding your position still over the building, and everything is blank, you see nothing at all. Now listen very carefully as I talk. Listen very carefully now. Right now it is 1985. Right now it is 1985. We are going to take a look back in time in history to the summer of 1980. Right now it is 1985 and we are going to look back in time at something that took place in history.. .the summer of 1980. When I ? +35 tell you to open your eyes you will look down and see the events of the summer of 1980. Something that has already taken place. Looking backwards in time from 1985 to the summer of 1980., Open your eyes and describe 1:7.6at you seg.. Approved For Release 2000/08* v:4trtt P96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #1 PAUSE by km-ay) There's a lagg...a.1Q A very large ship. It's got a hollow area in it. And, ,there's a a...a...a very large submarine. It's there by the big ship, and there's all kinds of hoses going to it, or electric lines going to it. Some kind of lines. There's a...there's a lot of activity on that outside of the building. I don't see anything other than that. #66 Alright. Tell me more about this activity in the wharf area. 41 They're workin9 on the submarines. #66 And where is the submarine? #1 Between the wharf and the large ship. #66 Between the wharf and the large ship. #1 Yes. #66 Describe the large ship. #1 It's very large. It's got a hole in it. 466 Where is the hole? #1 In the back. It's twin tails on it. Twin rear...rear. decks, and it's got a cover over it on the back...and it's got blooms on the back. Look like small crat4s. And, there's a...not too much activity on the big ship. Some kind of a working ship but there is a...a lot of activity on the submarine. #66 Tell me about the submarine. #1 It's all.. .all of it's hatches are open and there are people working there, doWings in them. I get this sensation, that's being stracked up for something. Like getting it ready for inspection. Very large submarine there. It's brand new. Appears-Tne brand new. Approved For Release 2000/0 DP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/ A-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #66 Alright. #1 I am getting a very sntion Very strong. Sensation of odor. #66 OK. In comparing your feelings here in the summer of 1980 with your feelings of the submarine in January 1980 one of them was al.older submarine changed and this submarine is new; #1 This one_thels like it is new. I sense the difference is no odor. I don't know why I would say that. yo 44,0. It''s as if odor has some importance. I don't know what makes me say that it's got no odor. #66 Standing on the deck of this submarine, describe it to me. PAUSE +40 #1 It's very large and it' h_widpr than the older That's all I'ltWg . It's got a different kind of.,. .feels like a different kind of plating. .7 tlilia4 14 0 machined better. And that's different too, it's machineddifferent. And decks' flatter. A flatter deck. #66 Standing on the c ing tower looking forward and looking down at the deck, describe it to me. #1 There's a...I see two small hatches. I see one 20 feet out from the sail and I see one at the very tip. There's a very large, very large hatch and it's in two pieces. It opens in half. #66 OK. Now stand on the cZAing tower and(look to the rear deck) and describe it to me. #1 Wide, and it's flat, There's a large rectangular shape (mumbling) and there's, there's smooth holes. "rre-rrs smooth holes there. #66 How many smooth holes? +44 #1 Uh...they're very hard to count. More than 20. May be 2 7 Noe Approved For Release 2000/0 10 P96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #66 Move on down to the deck and walk them off. Count them as you walk by. PAUSE 41 May be 22. lhey're hard to see, and even feel. Tr7777smooth. The holes are very smooth. #66 OK. It's now time to draw your perspectives. I have no further questions. I would like to give you just a moment to add anything you would like to add about your vision here in summer of 1980, and then prepare to draw. #1 #1 There's more water. The harbor has got more water. It's different. The place has got more equipment outside. More boxes stacked. It's very crowded. It's very crowded. (Turned tape over) (not audible) and they're anchored in the harbor. I get the impression they are kind of narrower than normal and they are very...I get the feeling of sleek and hard for some reason. They both look alike and they are anchored together in the harbor. They're undergoing...uh...just normal refurbishing type work. They're like a...some kindeof specialized civilian type ship, I think. Not trawlers, you know, but they look like big freighters but they're longer and sleeker. They're getting some kind of upgrade or something. 466 OK. Bringing you back now from your historical perspective back to 1985 and then back again here to 1979, I want you to bring back with you those concepts and those images that you have. When you're ready sit up and draw. PAUSE #1 I am just wondering how I'm going to draw a locomotive 11 rAg Approved For Release 2000/08.1446 - P96-00788R000100150001-5 ' Approved For Release 2000/08/07 ? -RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #66 I think you would write it down in words. It's a Nov very interesting concept. #1 I don't know why I said that. For some reason, it appears to be a very strong feeling. It appears to be a very important feeling. Tube type things appeared to be fastened to some kind of a floor. But they go ...further. It's like they're stuck to the floor. They go on down here and there is some kind of gimbel type thing they're sitting in...on. There's the end of this tube some kind of an outlet, an inlet or something. I don't know how to describe it. There's also some kind of intersecting pin work in there that's a...I don't know how to explain it. There are things in here, where I'm drawing the arrow. There are things in here that look like these pins coming together, like there is something else goin4 between these pins. It's not there yet, you know. It's something that connects between these pins. There's two, three, four, five sets of these in here. I don't know what they are. Then there are these things here. I don't know. Then openings looking through the side, there's just like a...tear drop shape and know...just like looking at the side of the tube. #66 OK. If you were standing on the inside looking out. #1 Yes. Like if you're on the inside looking out. I don't know what these are. They go all the way through the floor and they're in sets of two, and they're standing almost side-by-side but not quite. What I was saying before about the canting like (mumbling) #66 Can I ask you to put your page numbers down in the lower right instead of the upper right. #1 OK. I'm on page 2. Want me to erase that other one. #66 No. It is just that when I put it in a binder later it gets covered up. #1 Oh. I see. Approved For Release 2000 12 96-00788R000100150001-5 Now Approved For Release 2000/08k Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #1 Page 2, I explained to you. I was talking about when I look at the deck, I would have drawn the deck horizontal. Like this. And I look at the tubes. Th2X.:42...a4Atiug. This angle appears to be sometnhg less than 90 degrees. Like 80 degrees. But, then sitting inthe water the deck is angled just a little bit as compared to the water and the tubes appear to be straight up and down. It's like they're canted, so to speak in order for them to be verticle while it's in the water. #66 When you were looking at the tube3and perceived them cant0 was the submarine in or out of the water. #1 I don't know. I don't if it was or not. #66 Alright. #1 Inside the submarine is clearly cantd. Where it goes through the ceiling isciearly canti'd. I get t e impression, standing on the first floor the tubes go through the floor. That cant is much less noticeable It's almost as if the floor was put in.. .cant as well. I'm not sure I understand why, but I get that impression. #66 Alright. #1 And...a...on page 3 looking, if you were to look down on the top of the sail the center portion on the top of the sail is an oval like this. Right up here on top there is a...I was getting a very clear impression of a this kind of a vent opening or hole. While this was recessed, here, this portion was very recessed. Much darker area. #66 Draw a couple arrows there recess and where we might look at the drawings later and be able to tell. #1 OK. I will finish drawing this then. I had a very hard time seeing where the step was. I had a very sharp impression of this, that. I don't know why I called that, but I'm not going to change so therd s no confusion. 13 P96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07: CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 #1 It was very very hard to find the vent where it was. I knew it was the angle it had to be viewed from. Overall picture...this is quite large, incidentally. Looking down from the top I got the impression that this is out of here like this. Walk around area here. There's a...the dark heavy line on the side is a hatchway and this is a deck, slant lines are a deck that you can walk around on. Down this back side of the deck is a ladder, goes down to the main deck. I get that impression. #66 Draw me some arrows and names. #1 OK. Ladder, That's a stand up hatch. Then the tubes are this way. PAUSE #1 Page 4. There's a qua/e-, and this comes back and there's a building here. #66 OK. This was when I asked you to look at the summer of 1980. #1 Yes. That extensive building is here. And over here in the qua& is a very large ship with a hole in the back. There's a very large ship out here. Along here is a very large submarine. #66 Even bigger than the ship? #1 It's bigger than the ship but not much bigger. On the back of this ship are brooms where I can put these star type ships. This was open. There is a very large super structure here. Very high bow, definitely an open ocean type vessel. This whole mess is roped together on the qua-. What appears to be some kind of lines or hoses or something running in off this submarine. The only reason why I said it was new, is that I got the sense of lack of odor. It's very important to me for some reason. I don't know why. This is the bay out here. The last thing, page 5 out on this bay there is a building here. Out on the bay are two very large ships and they're like anchored side-by-side. They got the big super structure and all... .ay Approved For Release 200 14 788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 20 #1 A-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 And what's unique about them...dotted line up here on the they appear to have a...sort of a well funny looking type bow. One would almost get the impression they were some kind of whaling ship but they are not whaling. They're not a fishing vessel at all. The bow is really funny. They're two of these and they are identical. They are side- by-side. I don't know what they are. They struck me as being quasi-military. By that I mean that they probably have a military function but that they're more like civilian type That's it. Something missing on the top of the tubes but I couldn't see it. #66 In January 1980 you said there was something missing on the top of the tube. #1 Yes. That what I kept trying to see but in the other one all there was smooth hole. Like you could rub your hand across the top and you could just perceive an opening. Not an indentation or anything. You just perceived the outline a little. May be a well sealed hatch. Or a disposable hatch. That would be interesting. #66 Anything else you would like to add? #1 No. 15 Approved-For Release 2000/ 11L DP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 TAB Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 , Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 TAB Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 TAB Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 SG1A Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5 Next 3 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788R000100150001-5