Document Type: 
Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 
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Original Classification: 
Document Page Count: 
Document Creation Date: 
November 4, 2016
Document Release Date: 
May 17, 2000
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Case Number: 
Publication Date: 
March 1, 1983
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PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7.pdf665.7 KB
SG1A Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Next 2 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/0 DP96-00788R001600160002-7 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview for 17 February 1983. The time is 0830 hours. Relax and concentrate now, relax, relax, relax and focus your attention right now on the building in the photograph I've shown you. As you do move your awareness to the inside of the area you know as the left wing of the building. Do this now. 08: Here there's a....a persistent impression of....of a room of blueprints. #66: Describe. #08 They are related to engineering to.a...,very extensive blueprints, to industrial engineering... Many, many, many people,... about forty involved in the studying of...a refinement of these plans. The picture is long, long tables with extensive blueprints with thirty, forty people are working ...during the a cool down stage the, impression, the impression of a man, definitely an engineer, bald, 5 - 5 feet - 4 inches/5 feet - 5 inches. He's wearing glasses, and mustache, appear to be center of attention in this endeavor. #66 His activity. #08 Say again #66: Report his activity. #08 He's ahead of the of this group responsible for the, for the plans. He's the program chief, if you wish. #66: Holding your fix, holding your fix, orient this area within the left wing. #08: It's a top floor. Top floor is the a,... the.a ..the lower floors are the individual offices of the smaller group, responsible for working on other parts of the plan addressing an individual problem. #66: Holding on the top floor in this area, describe the objects you have called blueprints. #08: Blueprints with the lines and scales lows shafts, joints...(mumble) (mumble), Hydraulics.... Approved For Release 2000/O8/ I-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/0 - DP96-OO788ROO16OO16OOO2-7 rma #66: These things you call blueprints, describe their physical construction, the material. #08: Ah, okay. Extremely long, I believe the distinct impression is that very long, a drafting table, but in length, is as much as 30 or 40 feet, with this plan unfolding almost to the length of the table, so that a portion of the plan can be examined in a, within the width of three feet, and for whatever length you want. But then the plan unfolds physically in greater widths. #66: Okay, I'd like to interrupt for a moment and give you some instructions and then have you reaccess the target. Focus intently on this area and these, I assume you have some drawing type thing you've discovered here, some drawings of some kind. You've called them blueprints. #08: Yes, blueprints plans. #66: Now, the material on which these things are drawn-- #08: Paper, blue, bluish white paper. #66: All right. #08: Bluish ink. #66: All right. Are there other-- #08: --lines with degrees of lines interrupted lines that mechanical drawing of lines. #66: Are there different colored lines? #08: Dark blue and light blue, heavy lines and fine lines. #66: Now, deeper and deeper, deeper beyond the actual drawings to what the drawings depict. #08: Industrial complex, factory, plant... #66: All right. Moving now from the top floor of the left wing, moving now from the top floor of the left wing, continue to explore the left wing. #08: The middle floor of the sub-offices are the a the smaller groups. There's a storage area in the basement. There's a tube of, tube of a container. I think the storage area for the, for the plans used in that wing, is in the...It's below the street level (mumble). Approved For Release 2000/08/08, ',1s .' P96-OO788ROO16OO16OOO2-7 Approved For Release 2000/ RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 #66: I have no further questions concerning the left wing of the building in the photograph I've shown you. But I'd like to give you a few minutes. #08: No, I don't have anything more (mumble) #66: Fine. Remember now the perceptions you've had and I'd like to ask you now to draw those perceptions for me. #08: All right. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 . QA RT DP96-00788 R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/0 P; `IARDP96-00788 R001600160002-7 DRAWING EXPLANATION #08: Okay, in Sketch #1 which is very simple, it is entitled "overview of the building", simply an effort to pinpoint the specific area of interest so I have labeled, front of the building in the appropriate section and the streets surrounding that area. I didn't bother with what I call the right side, because we've all ready done that and I pinpointed through an arrow, the specific area of interest. #08: In sketch #2 is simply a two dimensional sketch, entitled "area of interest" and sub-divided into top floor, mid-level area and the below street level area. Top floor is where the 30 or 40 specialists or engineers work on these huge blueprints that I've described in the session. The middle level area are the smaller groups with smaller offices comprised of 3 to 5 persons addressing specific problems that relate to the overall blueprint. And level, the storage area which is somewhat of a secure area, by the way, you just don't come in and out there willy-nilly. There's a guard system and there's identification system and what have you. It's serves as blueprint storage area in these cylinder type containers, cardboard containers, that are stored in there. In dimension, proportionately speaking, I've simply drawn two lines that would indicate a general ratio of the area, Okay. This is below the street level, in the cellar, if you wish. Okay. Now, you have any questions on that or anything about the blueprints that I may not have said? #66: Okay. You said that in the area where you saw these blueprints, there were large tables? #08: Yes, very long, long somewhat narrow tables that I would describe them as about three, three and a half feet wide, maybe 20, 30 feet in length with these long, long blueprints laid out on the tables. The blueprints were all, the portions that I saw were about 3, 3 and a half feet wide, but they were folded, in other words, you had another 3 or 3 and a half feet above what was on the table and perhaps another 3, 3 and a half feet underneath. So we're talking about a very huge thing, a very huge blueprint. That's the best way I can describe it. #66: Okay. You observed behavior or activity while you were there. Approved For Release 2000/0?J9 I -FDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/081"-'C rARDP96-00788 R001600160002-7 #08: The impression of the activity is that the man that I've described was the over chief of the program, addressing the, responsible for the overall workings and of the entire program and the blueprints. Problems are addressed in overall picture and yet specific problems and areas within the blueprint are the responsibility of small groups of persons that work on those specific areas of the blueprint, go down to the mid-level area of the building, work on the blueprints and eventually, in another session, or also through individual sessions with the chief amend the overall blueprint, the used blueprint. #66: Okay. They are changing or amending? #08: Yea. #66: Now upstairs again, upper floor, how many people in that general area? #08: Well, it's-- #66: --One people? #08: No, no, no, you know, I can say there are ten people. That's only partially true, there are ten people at a time that are responsible for that particular area, but all of these other mid-level, other people working in the mid-level area numbers as many as 30 to 40. What I saw was in the top level, at the time that I was seeing it, this conglomerate of 30 or 40 people working on the overall blueprint. With the results of their work on the specific portions of the blueprint and receiving assignments, further assignments to resolve other issues on the blueprint. After receipt of these assignments, they go back to the mid-level area and work on those particular problems that They have been assigned to. #66: Okay. In reference to the actual behavior or physical doing, that was done in this upstairs area, what did persons do? #08: Make entries and amendments to the overall blueprint, which is the result of the work of individual groups working on specific portions of the blueprint. #66: Okay, good. Approved For Release 2000/0,` ARDP96-00788 R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/00,`' pp96-00788 R001600160002-7 #08: Okay, sketch #3 is an attempt to give an impression of the blueprint table as it appears and to further define. It's a drafting type table with a perceived green top about 30 foot in length and about 3 to 3 and a half feet wide. The blueprint is in reality equal to or bigger than the table, in both length and width. I don't know the length and in width it is folded in three, is overlapped and underlapped, really. So that what is perceived on the table is on third of the blueprint, either the top third, middle third or the lower third. The entire blueprint be estimated, I would assume, would be about 6 feet, but I have no feeling for the actual real dimensions, It could be 7 feet, 8 feet, 9 feet, just simply know that what is studied on the table is just approximately 1/3 of the blueprint. And if attention is focused on the, say, the top portion of the blueprint, then you have to fold the blueprint, turn it over and put on the table. If you want the middle section, then you would fold the blueprint underneath and have the top section and the lower section folded upon itself so that the middle section would be perceived. Now as to contents of the blueprint, I can not draw that. I can describe it. It's grayish white paper with heavy blue lines with degrees, with cylinders. It's a mechanical type drawing, type blueprint with heavy lines interrupted lines with degrees and symbols that I do not understand. There are fine lines and there are heavier lines, depending on what pen or whatever ink or whatever was used. But it gave me the impression of hydraulics and mechanical engineering. There are joints, there are representations of steel, again,steel joints and long rods and cylinders and hydraulics and this type of thing and it's just much to complicated for my head. But that's the feeling, the impression that I received about the contents of the drawing. Is there anything else I can add like shed more light? #66: No, Okay, that's fine. Is there anything else you like to add? #08: No. #66: Okay, good. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 {"t~,rA D 96-00788ROO 1600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 Approved For R e4e 20000!/08 : *- I .14 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96>Q 8ROO1600160002-7 ~a Approved Fbr Release IfOO/O 8-/- -0 8-: CIA-RP R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : C 4 M=10788R001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 or use of this Fermi, FM 31111 C); AR 3R1.1 30 :hr ropenent agency the OI~;c^ of the A..slSian t Chit f ref Slai0 for Intlligente. NAME OF SUBJECT CIO TITLE (IF INCIDENT - C+!eTt SVItMi1TED SG1A CL-996/8210/08 SG1A On 17 F Source CL-08 was interviewed concerning "OWN During a previous interview (CL-989/8210 08, conducted 6 January 1983) Source was unable to describe one section of a building which Source called the "Left Wing" of the building. This interview was an attempt to have Source describe this section. Source stated substantially as follows: On the top floor of the left wing of the building was a room with drafting tables 20 to 40 feet long. On the tables were blueprint plans. Source described the blueprint plans as being almost as long as the drafting tables and up to 10 feet wide. The plans were folded into approximately three foot Bide sections sections so that they could be examined on the tables. The blueprint plans were bluish white paper with heavy and fine lines of dark and light blue. The heavy lines were interrupted lines and were marked with degrees and other symbols that Source did not understand. Source further described the plans as being mechanical drawings related to industrial engineering. Source believed the drawings to be of an industrial complex, a factory or plant. These drawings represented steel joints, long rods, cylinders, and hydraulics; all of which was too complicated for Source to understand. The middle floors of the left wing of the building were individual offices. in these small offices work was done on specific problems that related to the blueprint plans on the top floor. Below street level was a blueprint storage area. Here there were cylinder type cardboard storage containers. This was a secure area with a guard system and an identification system. Personnel activity within the left wing of the building was focused around the work on the blueprint plans on the top WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND DTG: 051630ZJUL78 METHODS INVOLVED DECL: Originating Agency's NOT REALEASABLE TO FOREIGN Determination Required NATIONALS . _ -(cont inured ) Sr .N-f,-.} OP i.ft::IAL 4 -E?J ~eG~in~? v? ?~v.vwvv rvvv.vv.vv v.i. r v vv? vv.~vv ?vvv ?vvvLrrpm `)10380-nt07/Y10 9 ArR 52 lFETLACV, N.'.. .: 4:, 1 n)N 4.?, WHICP A A n. U::.tiG 7AIC, Z- Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 AGENT REPORT For use of this fcrrn, set, FM 30.17([); AR 381-13(i; the proponent atjet:cy is the otfec SG1A CL-996/8210/08 floor. On the top floor approximately 30 to 40 specialists/engineers worked on these blueprints. In the middle level smaller offices, groups of three to five personnel addressed specific problems (not further identified) that related to the overall blueprint. Personnel, on the top floor made entries and amendments (not further identified) working on specific portions of the blueprint. The man responsible for the blueprint plans, the "program chief" (not further identified) on the top floor, was an engineer. Source described this man as follows: 514" - 515" tall Bald with a mustache Wore glasses This man appeared to be the center of attention for all that happened concerning the blueprint plans. No further amplifying information was obtained from Source during this interview. Attached hereto is EXHIBIT I, drawings provided by Source concerning the areas described above. AGENT"S NOTES: After the completion of the interview,xource spontaneously volunteered that the "program chief's" name might be Molinikov (phonetic). or,tRelease,,.20 ,O/08/08,,,CJAJR0,P96-00788 R001600160002JJ: tr,a3q.0-307,346 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600160002-7 US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND EXHIBIT COVER SHEET SG1A 1 .ia:, 78) SUBJECT: FILE NUMBER: CL-996/8210/08 PREPARING UNIT: AGENT REPORT DATED: DESCRIPTION : Drawings Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : d- '1096* 788RO01600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : MAP ' j g0788ROO1600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA~88R001600160002-7 Approved For Reas 2000/08/08 : CIA-ROPM788R0160Q 60002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96 007,8 Rggi,,600160002-7 Approved F Release 2000/08/08: IA-RQ~?'~6 JR001600160002-7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA- 188R001600160002-7