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Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 
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Document Creation Date: 
November 4, 2016
Document Release Date: 
September 5, 2003
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Case Number: 
Publication Date: 
July 1, 1983
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PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00788R001600340001-8.pdf797.07 KB
SG1A Approved For Relea ~~~1 ~ :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 1 July 1983 IAG PA-F-SD SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - CL-1024/8303/01 (U) 1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 280900 June 1983 source #O1 was interviewed concerning u 3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared including a narrative explanation of the drawings which source provided (see Incl 2) . 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview. Attached as an exhibit to the DA Form 341 was a copy of source's drawings (see Incl 3) . 3 Incl FREDERICK H . ATWATER as CPT, MI OPS/TNG Officer CLASS IF IED BY: MSG, DAMI- ISH DTG: 051630ZJUL78 DECL: Originating Agency's Determination Required Release 2003/ . ' ~~P96-007888001600340001-8 ~~'~ lY'd~l il~l1.W;~~1N'i3RJ~75{J ~k ~~'~+Vil':A.'~Vf.l~ kY4~J. A. VJ.Y.4.1.+.1~ Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/ #66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0900 hours 28 June 1983. Focus now today on the area in the photograph I've shown, solely completely today on the area in the photograph, the east end. Describe your perceptions to me. #01; It's not fully occupied. See a ..ramp, externals are installed..... All wires are in place....maintenance present...but the building's not...not fully occupied yet. #66: Break that out. #Ol; ..See empty sections of building. Upper floors are..mostly occupied, lower floors aren't. #66: I'm interested exclusively on the new structure on the roof . #01: Just a minute, see a ramp,..see a ramp there. .,.......It's operating now...There's a.. screen moving, moves up and down and side to side. ..Trying to look for something new, ..different ....Everything is balanced . I don' t know what that means, but everything is balanced. #66: Dollhouse view? #01; ....See perfect a ..perfect screens, fields ....all electrically balanced....Ah...wave arrival is critical, and vertically. ..Impression of microwave link.'s in .the ....two kinds' s collected and one's ....specific, ...specifically sought . Trying to.. see deeper into this....I see a large screen with ..many rows of wave forms on top of the other . #66: Break out screens. #O1: Video, square, large. #66: Video display screens? Approved For Release 2003/0 1~,,? 96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/UQ~~~~P96-007888001600340001-8 #O1: That's correct. Other screens too, but different location, back in the outside. #66: Okay. Describe dollhouse view of the way this area is organized. #01: ...Fine mesh screens, east side of ..just a minute . .............three parts to the building, area, east . #66: Excuse me, are we talking about just the newly constructed portion here, when you say three parts? #O1: No. #66: Okay. #O1: ...That's one part . #66: Okay. I'm interested in a dollhouse perspective of just this newly constructed portion. #Ol: Okay, just a minute. #66: It's much, much too broad of an area to examine this whole building, I want just this one little area on top . #Ol; ......From the outside in, it's a...fine mesh screens,...ah....get a one-way shield impression,..oval, more screen on inside...of shield. of tubes against wall, cold, tubes are cold ....plate ...angular plate or a curved plate,...with some black square, nodule, centered, ..heavy grid in the floor . ...See a metal gauze, a gauze type element, looks like cotton,.. but it's metal. #66: Location? #O1: ......Ceiling inside, sealed wa11s......I a...vertical, horizontal wave angles, very important. #66: Raw data. #O1: ~7ust keep seeing spurious angular views of ...arriving at screen shields,... sensor feeling, like,...catching some various wave. ......... Approved For Release 2003/09/ 6-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/0~~~[~P96-007888001600340001-8 #66; Focusing on the newly constructed portion on the roof, east end of the roof here, study this dollhouse perspective so that you may draw it for me. #Ol; Go ahead. #66; Okay. Now focusing exclusively on this newly constructed portion of the roof, east end, today 27-28 June 1983, describe the operational status. #Ol- ..It's fully capable, but not being used. This - portion's finished. Other portion isn't. #66; Break out other portion. #Ol~; Analysis portion, located in..building somewhere. ...Just room of cabinets and ..display screens,...not all manned. ......Impression it's waiting on people. Some kind of move or something,..shifting around of people. .......Then it goes to a test phase, ..iron out bugs. ....Then outside taskers are...will be given access. ...........Impression of targeting, cross spectrum,...but mostly a...wildcat microwave,..radar type signals.... One for information, one for identification. ...It s a..never been done before capability. #66; Break that out. #O1: This will be first place they have done this,...operationally. #66; Raw data. #01; Feeling of excitement and anticipation, newness, great expansion capability. #66; Break out capability. #Ol; ,,,,,,...Across the board tremendous increase in collection. ......Surprised at distance, I get impression of over a 1,000 miles range, a....great distance for.. spurious wave form and microwave frequencies, ..radar frequencies. ..........getting something else, but I..can't break it out. #66: I will wait . Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : C~~~~88R001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/~,Q~~~P66-007888001600340001-8 #pl; .............Something to do with first..tap in on ...a major network, specific network . ....Specific equipment mission is ...very even their employees. ..Their employees are even told a.....different story on mission. #66: Am I to understand that the nature of this new capability is concealed from the employees? #O1: Most employees, that's correct. ....The actual control network they're ...tapping or a ..first time ever . I keep getting a ..I don't think it's overlay, but I keep getting the impression of nuclear subs . Is a .....kind of ..comm network with nuclear subs, or ......about nuclear subs. So I don't know, that's all I get. #66: All right. Review now for drawing purposes two views: 1, the dollhouse view of the newly constructed portion, east end of the roof. Number 2, the analysis area in the main building or the area that you have identified as one with screens, display screens. #O1: Okay. #66: All right. I have no further questions. Approved For Release 2003/09/10: C 888001600340001-8 4 Approved For Release 2003/ I~P96-007888001600340001-8 #Ol: Okay, drawing #1 is a cut away of the top of the building, just the newly constructed area. This is the area I said was accessible by a ramp, now that we have a ramp built into this area for some reason. Working from the center out there is a curved angular plate type reflector device that moves up and down and sideways . Actually it' s got more movement than that, it's got like the full rotary movement of the wrist, your hand, it' 11 move all directions. There's a black sensor type box in the center. Outside that is cold wall or screen type wall that's real cold and it's got a lot of vertical lines inside and outside. But on the inside there's affixed two rows of some kind of reflector or blocking grid type things. They're fastened in rows, two rows around the inside of the cold wall. Then outside of all of that, the exterior wall is a screen grid and it's very evenly broken up into separate little blocks and things. Underneath there's a false floor with, and it's completely shielded. And underneath that is all kinds of wires, just a spaghetti full of wires. #66: At one point here, you talked about a one way wall or one way--- #Ol: Yeah, the cold wall is a one way wall. It's like something penetrates the exterior wall and the angle and deflection, the sideways angle and the up and down angle's important as to the way it goes through the wall. But once it goes through the wall, any attempt for it to come back out through the wall, you know, by bouncing out or anything, is blocked by this inside reflector grid, these rows of whatever. You know, I just get a feeling like this particle penetrating through this cold wall and then bouncing around inside the cold wall until it either hits or it hits the angular plate collector, the reflector-- you know the #66: Okay, now when you talk about angles again what you said about angles. of, say that #Ol: The angle of elevation and the angle of side-to-side. #66: Of What? Approved For Release 2003/09 ~~ ~. 96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 20~$ RDP96-007888001600340001-8 ~~+ - #Ol: The wave, and I'm talking micron type waves, I'm talking radars and microwave. #66: Okay, now let me put that in other words other than remote viewing words and see if that' s what you're talking about. Are you talking wave form polarization? You know how with an antenna you either polorize it horizontally or vertically or anywhere in between, if you're talking about smaller wave lengths. Are you talking about wave form polarization? #O1: That has to do with it, yes . But that' s only one element of what it has to do. #66: Okay. #O1: Yes. That's like one of many parts, elements that's important. #66: Okay. A wave form can come off a radiator in certain polarizations #Ol: Yes, I know. I agree. #66: And it can be in different frequencies. #O1: I agree . #66: So in terms of capturing higher frequency wave lengths, you're talking about wave guides and a polarization of a wave guide would depend upon the radiated or the reflected energy it was attempting to capture. #Ol: I agree. And that's important. #66: Okay. #O1: Page #2, there's a room inside the building that deals with this exterior portion. #66: Is inside the greater, larger building? #O1: Yeah, it's like in the top two floors. I wouldn't say it's in the very center of the top floor though. It's like on the outer edges of the top floor and part of the second floor, whatever that means. There's, I've depicted this angular, it's Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : C~,88R001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/ 6-007888001600340001-8 like three cabinets together and there's three sets of these all in the same room . They're like equal distance based in a triangle. I get an impression of video, two video screens, one in each cabinet and then the right hand cabinet is all lights and switches, black boxes, lights and switches. The video screens, the one in the center, the center cabinet, is essentially black or dark, with white lines, not vertical or anything, but with white lines that show up in different configurations and then numbers superimposed on the screen that move around . The screen to the left is like divided up into fifteen horizontal sections. It's a light gray and it has dark line that represents what looks like some form of frequency spiking. And they're all different and they keep overlaying one another. It's like a presentation of a great number of frequency ranges all at the same time, all random and all spurious. Both of these represent two distinctly separate missions that this equipment is involved in. Both are automated but permit some form of human interface, maybe it has to do with analysis or the recording of the equipment. It's automated collection or wriatever, I don't know. That's essentially what I see in that room. #66: Okay, now I'll want to try to clarify something here. You said two separate missions, now previously when you talked about the intercept technology upstairs, you talked about two kinds of signals. Okay, let me clarify it. First of all you flip-flop between radar and microwave and maybe you're describing a range of frequencies with that or maybe you're describing two separate missions. You also go on to further describe, one being an information collection and the other being an identity collection. And then again, here at this point, you have talked about two separate missions. Can you clarify those points? #O1: No. There's a, I just get a feeling of two missions. #66: Do you recall talking about this idea of one is intercept for information and the other is intercept for identity . #Ol: Yes. Those are the two missions. But, if, I don't know which is which, I don't know if the microwave is the information and the radar is the identity or Approved For Release 2003/09/10k~ ~00788R001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/'~,Q~f1~;,,F~6-007888001600340001-8 if the radar is the information and the microwave is the identity. There's some, there's a reason for the combination of the two. You know, it's like-- #66: And now you've got like two different screens-- #Ol: Without the one, the other wouldn't be of any value. #66: Okay. #Ol: And at the same time that I was getting into this duality of mission, there appears to be a third sub-category of knowledgeability that then becomes apparent further on down the line, after all this information is analyzed and amassed and digitalized and filed in a computer and whatnot. Then there is a third mission category or another group of people that are very, very compartmented even within their own area. And from that collated data, they are in turn, able to collate and extract third mission data that is of even more impressive importance and I get a lot of overlay about nuclear submarines. You know, I get a lot of a--- #66: Is this that you're addressing now, this new first time available thing that you were describing? #O1: Yes, yes. And they're going to a great deal of masking and extremes hide this, hide is not a right word, to subvert attention from this capability, I don' t know, I' m getting lost now . #66: I understand. But you think that this capability, this new capability might be submarine communications? #Ol: Yeah, but I don't know if it's theirs or ours. Maybe it's combining the two informations, they come up with an absence of something that allows them to #66: Whatever, let it you know--- #O1: --Tap into or penetrate communications, I don't, you know, I'm just getting an impression. I'm talking around what I' m trying to say and I don' t know how to break out what I was getting. #66: Okay. Approved For Release 2003/ ?~;~'0~:~ -R~P96-007888001600340001-8 ~_~~, ~~, Approved For Release 200 DP96-007888001600340001-8 #Ol: You know, just giving gastaltics about what I was getting it. #66: Okay. But there is something about this thing that they have put on the roof and the operation that is something new, that's something that they have never been capable of doing. #Ol: Absolutely. #66: And that it is so new, that many of the people that work there don't know about it. #Ol: That's correct. #66: And that you have an impression that this may have something to do with communications of nuclear submarines or submarine communications? #O1: Yes. That's correct. #66: Okay. #Ol: And that's essentially it. #66: Okay, good. SFCRF~ Approved For Release 20~3~0~1'1'f~'"C~i~'RDP96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 1"~'~ ~ ~ 1'x'1 ~ Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 V Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :CIA-RDP96-007888001600340001-8 Approved For Release 20- RDP96-007888001600340001-8 AGENT REPORT SG1A Far use of this form, see FPM 30-17(C); AR 3E~'E-20; ?f!e propnnsnt ngsnry Pr tha offisa of tha Asm%ecton9 Chisf of SPOff for BnOsllip~rlen. 1 yNAME Ldf S?1bdECT GAR TPf1E C)6lEN~IpENT _______.._______._.~_a._._____.. _~-__ - Z, PATE SUbMITTE[Y~~ _____^~~ ~-- ~. C~P(fRr>l SYMboI 138 6Pi.E NUMBER ~~ CL--1024/8303/01 On 28Tune 1983. Source CL-01 was interviewed concerning 's'he newly constructed portion, as depicted in Source's drawing number 1, was accessible by a ramp (not further identified). Inside the area was a moveable curved angular plate reflector devz.ce . In the center of this device was a black sensor box (nc~t further identified) Surrounding this device was a "cold wall or screen type wa1.l" with vertical lines both inside and outside the wall. Fastened around the inside of the "cold wall" were two rows of "some kind of reflector or t~locking grid type things" (not further identifi.c:d} . Source f).arther described this "cold wall" as a "one-way shield" for "micron type waves;" ?`radar" and/ar "microwave" (not further identified). The exteriar wall of the area was a screen grid, "very evenly broken up into separate little blacks" (not further identified). The area had a false floor that was completely shielded and under the floor there were many wires, "a spaghetti full of wires" (not further identified}. There was a metal gauze, "a gauze type element" in the ceiling of the newly constructed area. Source also described an "analysis portion" connected with the newly constructed area but located somewhere on the upper floor(s) of the main building (riot further identified) TYais analysis area was a room in which there were three automated consoles (see drawing 2}, each of which had three cabinets. Two of these cabinets had video diuplay screens and the other cabinet contained ligt)ts, switches, and '`black boxes" (not. further identified}. The video screen in the center cabinet Wc'1EtN IS~G IVC1T ICE ; SENSITIVE IN'I'ELL~ IGENCE SOt7RCES ANU I~IETIiC~:~ II~VQLVED N(~T ~EL,EASABLE TO I' C)RE IGN NA`l~ IC~~1A LS CLASS IF IE~ BY; CL7R, INSCUM DECL: OA:DR (continued) SG1 A >R t?.S, gorrrnrnrn! Prl?tllnW aa?fitr: tp?~-iSl-ite