TRANSCRIPT HU-1063/8301/01

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November 4, 2016
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December 4, 1998
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January 25, 1984
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PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9.pdf488.42 KB
Approved For Release 2000/08/ 6 j)0788R001900010003-9 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview for 1000 hours 25 January 1984. Relax and concentrate now. Relax, relax and focus your attention solely and completely; SG1 B and describe your perceptions to me. SG1 B #01: Ah.... impression on the ground that's expanding out in a circle. span that out to a mile, I get the target location in the lower right hand corner of or edge of circle. Get a flat roof, white building, something stacked on the roof in the upper right corner. Surrounded by fence, trees. NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CK14 O,(,Z88R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/ #66: Describe the entrance to this building. #01: ......Two ah...two heavy doors, low overhang ...... now it's a little bit larger overhang. I don't see any supports on it, however. I'm reminded very much of a..this is just a remembrance that I'm reminded of, a small hospital or a clinic type of'entry. #66: Okay. Moving away from your memory track into the actual target building, scan the building, describe the activities you perceive in the building. #01: ............. See people discussing things, ...ah..feeling of research, discussions. #66: Okay, describe this specific area in the building where these research discussions take place. #01: .........Two areas predominantly, mostly in the basement where there's equipment and somewhat on the first floor,.... in to the prime experiment areas, basement, right side. #66: Okay. Describe experimenting areas. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 -C - ' 0788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/0., P96-00788 R001900010003-9 #01: ....See many electronics, boxes sitting on floor, not on the floor but on tables. Light indicators, ...gauges, dials,.... heavily cabled, many cables, fine wires...all interconnecting these two...ah.... looks like some performance patch panel, or patch box. ...Um..many holes...... feeling of....... computer, small kind like desk top. #66: Okay. If I understand right, we're looking at an area in the basement that has some electronic equipment, perhaps a small computer type facility? #01: Ummmm....think the computer is one of many things in this room. #66: Okay. #01: Ah...see shielding of some kind too. The room has some shielding in it. floor, roof, walls. #66: Okay. Let's scan around to the adjacent rooms and immediate area, see what they look like. #01: .....Pavilion room, lounge area, tables, chairs, food storage, whatnot. See lab area with sink, chemicals, measuring equipment, ah..measuring Approved For Release 2000/08/001 007888001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08i0788R001900010003-9 things, measuring...ah....typograph type information, ah....offices, desks, bookcases, ....old fashioned blackboards as well. That's kind of interesting. ....... That's all I get in that regard. #66: Okay. Is this area confined to the bottom right or have you looked at the entire basement area? #01: ....There apparently is a workshop, equipment workshop, electronics repair area in the other end of the basement,.... storage rooms,.... apparently someone sleeps down there as well. There's a small room with a bed. ..... That's essentially it. #66: Okay. Go in the small room with the bed and look around, see if its in fact for sleeping or something else. #01: It's predominantly used for resting, sleeping, .. naps. Ah ...... Just sleeping or, I don't get feel for overnight type sleeping, I get a feel for naps or rest type sleeping. #66: Okay. Let's move out of the basement area now and 1 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP9 - 788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/0&` cIA~I 96L00788R001900010003-9 #01: ........ There are offices, first floor. .... There is one more floor, a second floor, and it appears that's quarters type of area, but it's very regimented and like many bunks,... beds. And another interesting room is cloth walls, it's like a sound or padding type protection. It's all white ..... floor's soft. Strong feeling of the rubber walled room, you know, the rubber padded room feeling. There's a psychology reason or something. ..... Some other rooms are a little different. Another room is all white tile, very sterile. ....Feel very uneasy about this area of the building, as well. #66: Break out uneasy. #01: Ah...see hummm.... humans subjected to experimentation. #66: Okay. Right now, this moment, is there anything going or is that resative? #01: It's resative. Approved For Release 200 Approved For Release 2000/08/0 788 R001900010003-9 #66: Okay. Let's continue to look right now, this moment. It's very important that you get the physical descriptions of these particular areas down. You're doing very well. #01: ..........There's apparently is ah.... two black boxes in a small room. Look like ah.... black freezers. They're there by them selves. #66: Is this what you perceive as being upper floor, second floor? #01: No, first floor. #66: Okay. #01: It's a dressing area or a...holding area, it's more #66: Describe what it is that makes you say "holding #01: Just had an impression of someone with straps around them. Can't tell if they are sitting, standing or laying. Just a flickering of Approved For Release 2000/08/""' """"'? ""'??^^^" ?^^^10003-9 Approved For Release 20 -RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 perception of someone with straps across arms, chest. .....Ah, lots of medicines in this area, as well. #66: Okay. Where are we in the building with the medicines? #01: First floor, same side. #66: Okay. #01: Left side. #66: I want you to go ahead and explore this medicine, I just had to know where they are. #01: ........It's a very powerful narcotic type mixtures. It's an interesting thing, I've never done this before, touching on the medicines and I'm's like ah ....... it's like a very subtle psychological....ah ..psychodelic type trip when you touch on medicines. I had to explain that. #66: Okay. I can understand that. Interesting that you in your particular mode of perception get the message in that form. That's very interesting. girn, Approved For Release 2000/08/08 610788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/ #01: It's like has a real subtle hallucinogenic type effect. It makes me feel like I'm inside out, upside down, backwards and sideways. #66: Um. That's very interesting that you able to sense the effect of the drug by touching it. Obviously there-- #01: --Parts of me are like expanding, really large, and other parts are getting small. #66: I know that myself, I know that myself. Okay, #01: --There's a personality altering here too, as well and it's like ah...schizophrenic split where I'm looking at myself. I can be either part. #66: All right, good. #01: Bright lights. It's really neat. #66: Okay. Let's understand what we're doing here. #01: Um, um. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 8 Approved For Release 2000/08/0$:: q~4F, P96-00788R001900010003-9 #66: We're actually getting information about what these drugs do, which is very unique that you are able to sense this. I'm happy that you're able to report that. Let's move now, out of this little drug area and look at something else in the building. There's a lot of very interesting things to learn here. #01: ................ Ah..I get-the only other areas I get are.... large store room type areas. #66: Okay. #01: Second floor is just all bunks and beds and-- #66: --Okay, are these in separate little rooms or they all in a dormitory type atmosphere? #01: Dormitory, but it's split, it's like two dorms. #66: Okay. #01: Left side, right side. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-FDP96-00788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/ OPON-00788ROO1900010003-9 #66: Now, you said before that, you'know we have looked at several different areas, and I'm going to ask you to draw those out later. You said before some sort of research, then had to do with some sort of electronics and then later you had the feeling of uncomfortableness, because you felt there was some sort of human things here and you got the traces and bad feelings. It's necessary now for us actually explore a particular activity in this building, but it's hard for me say, in a building of many activities over the years, a particular activity. So I want you to select out, asking yourself, you select out an activity of interest to #01: ......Okay ........ ..... See ah... get an impression of a person laying in, laying in black, laying in a black room. They're.... ah.... not wearing anything, they've got all kinds of wires fastened, ...laying in a black room,.... heavily drugged. ........ There's ah.... apparently there's some form of suggestion being the ...... and they're recording patterns from the wires ....... in a different room. I'm having trouble placing this black room. It's like the person is just floating in air in the black room,...... maybe their perception. Approved For Release 2000/08/0 Approved For Release 2000/0 DP96-007888001900010003-9 #66: How is this suggestion made? #01: Ah ............. Someone else in another room making the suggestion but I'm having trouble actually seeing him doing it. He just keeps repeating like a suggestion, like ah...."apples are green" or something like that, or "apples are blue, apples are blue", some nonsensical message. It's a very powerful suggestion however, for some reason. #66: Okay. Let's go on through the experiment and watch it happen. #01: ....... See a picture of this person coming from the room and just put to bed ...... observed. #66: Okay. Go back to the time of the black room and tell me what's going on. #01: That's it, just the suggestion going over and over. ......... A lot of monitoring this person while the suggestion is being made. #66: Okay. Let me see if I understand your description. A person in a black room who is, has wires, doesn't appear to be clothed, but has wires Approved For Release 2000/08/08 0788R001900010003-9 11 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : jqlIk- _ 6= 8R001900010003-9 hooked to him, is in a drugged state and by some mechanism that you have not explained, a suggestion is made. My assumption to or directed at this drugged individual and certain measurements, via these wires that are connected are then taken. #01: Correct. #66: All right, let's move back to the time of the actual experiment with the person in the room. Describe again to me this drugged state and what's going on. #01: .....Just a minute. #66: I can tell by the sound of your voice that you are getting deep, I will wait. #01: ....................... I get ah... the only impression I get is ah ..... is one of being totally lost. ...Ah.... Extreme ah..slow respiration, heart beat,....very low blood pressure. Mind is lost, ah..wandering. Very heavily latent dreams, .....nonsensical. ..... The ultimate focus is Approved For Release 2000/08/0 88 R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000 96-OO788ROO 1900010003-9 evidently on the suggestions. ......Also get the feeling this person knowledgable of what's happening, is volunteering. They don't, I don't sense a will to not participate. #66: Okay. Give me a profile of this person that's partaking in this experiment, age, sex. #01: Male, 35, ..... That's interesting, that's all I get. #01: .........Um ............. The military mind, .... very regimented ...... military orientation. ........ .....Ah.....sensitive...will that's important. Volunteer, selected kind of person for lack of will, willpower, lack of tenacity, lack of something rather than selection for having something. ....... (mumble) I get, I get more of this person is more of a nerd than anything else. #66: Okay. In the condition, during the time window of the experiment, he seems to be in this particular situation, it would appear as though he is Approved For Release 2000/08/08 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CTj88R001900010003-9 certainly being conditioned to be opened to some suggestion here. What suggestion would you like to leave with him? #01: .........Um........... I'll leave him a suggestion that it doesn't work. Just a minute. Um..interesting...... had to put it in the right brain, couldn't do it in the left brain. #66: (mumble) opening a channel of communication in order to leave your message, it might have been possible that he had something for you. #01: ........ no..... he's a real just get a strong feeling of not caring. #66: Okay. #01: Kind of "the hell with it" attitude. #66: Is it the effect of the drugs or his basic personality? #01: I think both, since over exposure to the drugs. k Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA1F4DP96-00788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : 1ZPL77j7fVL?NPMR001 900010003-9 #66: Okay. It's now time for me to stop asking questions. You need to extend yourself in your perceptions beyond the limiting confines of my questions, into the target area completely and wholey, beyond the confines of my questions. Do this now. #01: ......................... I think they're doing some kind of behavioral studies. It's kind of a two part thing, part A is to study behavior, induced behavior and the other is to inflict an induced behavior,... deposit a two way type thing. And that's all I get. #66: Okay. Before we come out of this, I don't quite understand the two sides that you explained to me. See if you can't break that out a little clearer. #01: One is effect and cause and the other is cause and effect. Causing a human being to do something, causing a human being, shit, I don't know, I'm getting all screwed up here. Either to cause a human being to react or to measure the reaction of the human being. That's what I get. #66: Okay. Approved For Release 2000/08/08'?".'CI RDP96-00788RO01900010003-9 15 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIAO R001900010003-9 #01: I don't know how to explain it any clearer. #66: That's fine, I understand that explanation now. Now ask yourself what is the stimulus? #01: ...............I just get this strong esoteric type suggestibility or suggestion or whatever you want to call it. #66: Okay. #01: And it's in the conditioning is derived from the use of drugs. #66: All right. #01: And that's all I get. #66: Okay, now I'm going to ask you to draw the area here so that we can pinpoint specific activities. Q"gQLT Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : 8R001900010003-9 16 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : ClqPRISVIVVLWIYBROO1900010003-9 #01: Okay, page 1 is the basement, what I perceive what I call a basement area and the things are appropriately labeled here. And I feel that two experimental rooms, what I call experiment rooms, are heavily shielded, that's floor, ceiling, walls. #01: Page 2 is the ground floor entry level. And that's where I perceived the medicine, drug treatment area, being the padded room, the white tile and I got a thing labeled unknown, but I just feel like there's a lot of general storage and stuff over in that area. And then offices. And like a general get together. I call it a research study area. It's kind of like where everybody gets together and they eat lunch there and do all that kind of stuff. #01: Page 3 is a rendition of what I perceive to be the second floor which is a left hand dorm and a right hand dorm. They're two identical dormitories with bunk like beds and bathrooms and all that kind of junk. But they're identical and they're separate. I got to say about the floors here, I get a really strange sensation in saying a second floor. It's kind of like the basement floor disturbs me in that I think it might be the way it's constructed that causes me to think it's a basement in that it might have no windows, you know, just all solid walls and maybe the shielding in the walls or something, I don't know exactly, it could be split level, it could be any of those things. It just, there's not a right feel about saying basement, 1st floor, 2d floor, it's more of a like there's something mixed there and I don't know what it is. #66: So you think that the basement is not necessarily entirely subterranean. #01: Right. And it may be that this building has a basement and a 1st, 2d and 3rd floor and I've been on the 1st, 2d and 3rd floor and never bothered with the basement, cause all that's down there is pipes and ash and trash. I just had to say that. #66: Okay. NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : -0 788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 OF96 -/204 ?FFtCE kxc-A c-rf~c~r~} i C (tom A i k SAP r~Oi~T' 3i & Ak , A ` Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 O J,? K.~J~4J 1 &fr )~G-t44. STDA .Ip / OtCE IGS CA 9W STu-0y 6Y OFF tC.Z 'or 4t "GA wD Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900010003-9