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November 4, 2016
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June 23, 1998
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January 13, 1984
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PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00788R001900440010-4.pdf617.89 KB
Approved For Release 2000/08/0W':,, 96-00788R001900440010-4 IAGPA-F-SD 13 January 1984 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - HU-1057/8314/01 (U) 1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 200900 December 198, source #01 was interviewed concerning personnel and activities within a building unknown to him. The project 8314 sponsor had provided a photograph of the building (see Incl 1). 2. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) For this interview source was shown the photograph provided by the sponsor and asked to focus his attention on the building. Source was not told of the suspected activities in the building. No other identifying data was provided to source. All other information was withheld for use as feedback and cuing for subsequent interviews. 3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared which included drawings provided by source (see Inca 2). 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview. Drawings were not included in the report because source reported having a very bad headache after the interview and provided the drawings several hours after the interview. The drawings do not appear to accurately reflect the salient points of the interview and would have been confusing to the sponsor (see Incl 3). SG1J 3 Incl as CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM DECL: OADR Approved For Release 2000/08/08 :f,' ! 00788R001900440010-4 SG1C Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 200Q4Q( -CfJA-RDP96-00788 R001900440010-4 HU-1057/8314/01 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0900 hours 20 December 1983. Relax and concentrate now. Focus your attention solely and completely, accurately, all your effort, all of your awareness on the building in the photograph I've shown you and describe the target to me. #01: ..........Ah...large section of warehouse, storage areas......large rooms ....... Impression of,...just a minute........ area has been converted to meetings, normally a..conference like area but it's been converted some way for meetings with 5 or 6 people. ..It's on a second floor area. ....Bunch of living quarters on the ....(mumble) partially living quarters on the ...second floor and a..most all of them third floor. .......... Trying to get a feel for the building itself. ,.. ........ah...things temporarily stored here,...that are purchased and are being transferred somewhere, ..some kind of boxes with equipment. It's like a corporation or a ...buying, selling place, a place that buys and sells, kind of enterprise. #66: All right. Let's focus on the present time, right now. Describe the personnel in the building. #01: ... ........Ah...mix of people, two different kinds. People who normally work there and there's people that are, don't have anything to do with the building that are staying there, from out of the country. I just get an impression of travelers. Predominantly the people in the building who work there are..dark skin, black hair. People from out of the country have a...a little lighter skin in some regard but their features are heavy. Ah..... two languages being spoken. One is is English, the other is ah...some dialect of Spanish, I get an impression of Spanish or it's a very guttural language in any event. Ah....people from out of the country are staying there. They're to...ah... what do you call it...ah...they're like information stripers, they take information, ah...focus on information .... ah..... I keep getting disjointed impression of these people. 1 1' RFT,'F:ASABI,E'TD F~RFZGNNATZQNKLS Approved For Release 2000/W08'"CIP-RDP96-00788R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/08LO I DP96-00788 R001900440010-4 #66: Break out disjointed. #01: Get and or and a lot of subterfuge here. It's like a holding transfer company and it's...when it's holding transferring something, it's being photographed sketched in detailed ...... Just keep pictures of ...... schematics and manuals and electronic circuit boards. #66: All right. Now, I have some questions. #01: Okay. #66: Two languages in the building, one English like and one guttural like-- #66: ---two different groups of people,... connect the the languages with the people. #01: Okay, just a minute. ........... The ah...guttural language is common to the people there, that live there and the English is common to the people that don't, that are from out of the country. ....I still get something fakey about the people from out of the country that speak English, there's very heavy overlays of subterfuge there. It's like the people who own this building don't know who really these people are that speak English. They believe they are someone else. There's some other kind of function and what they're really doing. #66: All right. Now, let's talk about numbers and ratios between the visitors from out of town and the residents. #01: Okay. Resident people ...... 20 to 22 resident people. Visitors from out of town are never more than 5. Seem to come in groups of 4 or 5. Kind of interesting word pops into mind, it's called "staging". #66: Okay. Now I want to question about a choice of words here. You say come in groups of 4 or 5? #66: I infer from your choice of words that they are not always there in that building. Approved For Release 200 J,1 , P96-00788RO01900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/08 P96-00788R001900440010-4 #01: That's correct. #66: Okay, break out time windows, the usual times they're there in the building. #01: Okay. ... ..... . It's a normal ah...normal operation, it's like a...they get there on a... Thursday evening and leave on the following Monday, Wednesday evening or Thursday evening, depart on the following Monday. Apparently there's weeks that occur when there's no one there at all, from out, you know, out of country. ...There's some important reason why they have to be there on the weekend, but I can't fix it. #66: Okay now, it's the visitors that spend this 3, days of the weekend? #01: That's correct. #66: All right. And you call that their normal operation or their normal time for being there? #01: Yes, that's correct. #66: All right. .........It's almost like there's some form of taking place as well. #66: If I understand you correctly, concerning these visitor people, the words "subterfuge", the words "staging", the words "training" come to mind. #01: That's correct. They're all interlocked, they're tied some way. Ahhh..I don't think the people who own the building are totally aware of the nature of these people. (mumble) it's like it's not part of the job to know. #66: All right. Now, getting back to physical descriptions of the building, I'll later want you to draw a doll house of the thing. So describe for me now where in the building these visitors come to. #01: ...........It's like rear...rear corner of the warehouse area or storage area, whatever you call it, and the third floor of the building. I don't. .....o.Get a feel of the third floor is just a lot of roms, like bedrooms, or sleeping rooms. ...... That's all I get, it's sleeping area Approved For Release 2000/O84QJp.: W96-00788 R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2( ~"V P96-00788RO01900440010-4 ZLIAIL 4, and some kind of cleared area and a store room or something,..... things pinned to the wallboard and boxes and stuff, collapsible tables, some kind of equipment. ............ #66: Okay. #01: Interesting, picked up on one strange fact here too. Somebody in the group is carrying a badge like a police badge or something. It's really strange. See like a hard piece of leather with a badge pinned to it. Somebody in the group is carrying that. #66: Someone in the group? #01: Someone in the group, but I can't...can't fix why. #66: All right. Now I'm going to ask you to, later I will ask you to draw the routes and entryways, hallways and doorways of this whole building and particularly this meeting area. For now, however, I would like you to describe as these groups of visitors arrive at the area, for one of their usual meetings, describe their appearance, their deportment, how they look. #01: .............Sport coats, without ties, open neck shirts, light blues, light clothing, light, everything light. It's either like white or off color white or tans and powder colors, pastel colors. Ah....... Just get a very like feel. #66: They look like everyday businessmen? #01: That's correct. ..Younger, younger than general, but they appear to be very business like, normal business man type person. #66: All right. .......And I'm am looking for a singular significant individual. Look at these visitors and see what comes to mind. #01: Okay, just a minute. ...............I don't get any major differences in any of these people. I don't see any significant visitor. ...See a guy with hair evidently more senior and he comes with some of these groups. Combs his hair Approved For Release 20 -RDP96-00788 R001900440010-4 4 Approved For Release 20'JA-RDP96-00788 R001900440010-4 straight back. He's about my size. There's a strange look in his eyes. Other than that he's (mumble) authority areas. He's no different from the rest of the people. #66: Okay, let's explore him for a minute. #01: .............The only feeling I get is that a..he has a lot authority, and he's kind of like... engineering some things here that....others don't know why he's doing it. He's got rotten personality as well. That's all I get on this guy. #66: Okay. I think if you'll take minute and concentrate and move close to him, that you'll find some very interesting things. #01: ...................He's got kind of ..... mystical mind...sort of a mystical mind,...a little bit around the bend, crazy wise. His realities are not very clear. ................. That's all I get, I don't get anything else. ....Getting stuff, but I can't translate it. ....So I just get ah..impressions of organizing and signing and directing. #66: All right. Ask him what is the nature of organizing and directing? this #01: ... .............Going to generate instability or ....... it's just a support larger plan or larger operation. an of a #66: What was it you said just before generating support to a larger plan? #01: Ah....He organizes, he designs and whatnot. #66: And the nature of what he organizes? #01: ........Just to upset stability. #66: He organizes something which upsets stability. #01: Misdirects. #66: Misdirects. #01: ..... Keep ......... It's like, it's across the board, it's got to do with newspapers and radio and television and, no that's incorrect, it's got to do Approved For Release 2000/O?IDP96-00788 R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : 31, 188R001900440010-4 with effecting those things,...information media. Ah... having effect on the information media. #66: May I be correct in saying that because of the nature of your contact with him, that this is the way he feels about his job. That he feels that this is what he does is effect the media? #01: That's the ultimate aim. #66: Oh, that's the ultimate aim is to effect the media, all right. #01: ...Cause a disruption by effecting the media. There's a lot of ways it's done. ....... There's still something I don't like about this that's not right. Something, there's an appearance here that's wrong, there's's like a mission within a mission, and I can't, trying to put my finger on it, but I can't,'s like what he's lending support to, these teams etc, etc,..the teams may. believe in what they're doing, but it's not really what they're doing. I don't know, they're, they're implying things that aren't real. Ah ........ It's like the people that are hosting them aren't getting what they believe they're getting. They're getting a double wrapped package. #66: The people hosting the visitors being the people in the building or in the general area? #01: In the building. ......... #66: You had said before that the people in the building didn't know what the visitors were up to? #01: They know but they don't know. It's like they..... #66: Are you saying there's a secondary or hidden agenda that they are not aware of? #01: That's correct, exactly. And even the...a..the guys that are there, some of them don't even understand what that hidden agenda is, it's like they don't know. yet. #66: Okay. I want to try one more approach with this individual who plans or leads these meetings. Move away from focusing on him internally now and stand about a foot in front of him and look directly at Approved For Release 2000 RON- 1-7-F R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2006 E RDP96-OO788ROO19OO44OO1O-4 his face. I don't want to use the word describe his face, I want you to say, "Tell me about the knowledge packet that you know", when you look at his face. Tell me what's written on his face. #01: ...................... Ah...... get a mix of (mumble) packages. #66: What was that? #01: Get a mix of knowledge packages. He's a...very politically minded,...very politically tuned. I get a sense, I don't to explain that he's, he's like of the people in charge of something and just,..he's getting more and more authority and politicizing it, he's using it and he's growing in strength, so to speak. But it's not, it's not like a formalized organization, it's more subtle than that. ............Specific knowledge, I just get ah...million things, you know he's just....very intelligent, he's ah..very vested in so many areas. .......... Other best areas vested in those and understanding of world politics. That's ah ....... that and organizing things. That's all I'm getting. #66: Okay. I building, because I want and need to remind you to remember the room they meet in and drawings. But before we do the layout that, I want to march off in another direction. This individual about whom you've been talking, I want you to move with him forward in time in monthly increments for as far as you want to see if there's anything of significance. #01: .... ...... ........ The only thing of significance that I see is ..... tremendous increase in wealth. I don't see any....see the problem is that, I think the things of significance are occurring that are important to him, are occurring away from him, not where he's at. ....Get an impression that there's things occurring that ..are very significant relating to him, that they're not where he's at. He's ah...just ah.. #66: Okay. #01: ---Going like traveling in one or two places in the next 90 days. I don't see. anything significant, I Approved For Release 200#Pk*PDP96-007888001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000MMIT11t'I RDP96-00788 R001900440010-4 just see a. normal kind of travel here and meet there and ..... I guess I just don't see anything significant. #66: Okay, fine. Now I have no further questions, but I would like to allow you a couple of moments to explore on your own beyond the confines of my questions, to get deep into the situation, beyond the confines of my questions. Do this now. #01: ..... ... ...... Get an impression he's reporting to more than one master, so to speak. He's working for two people. Both are a pain, it's kind of interesting. They're both getting relatively the same information, but they don't, neither knows about the other. That's all I get. #66: Okay. Remembering the building complex and areas, because I need you to sketch them. Let's do that now. Approved For Release 2000/08 P96-00788R001900440010-4 .ccf,nCl Approved For Release 2000/O8/4 , - 788ROO1900440010-4 1- P E;< ra- Ir- Q Nw Approved For Release 2000/08/ c .. RR P96-00788ROO1900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/0 95-00788R001900440010-4 LT 00 0 Approved For Release 2000/08/ 'J 00788 R001900440010-4 Approved For Release 2000/081 P96-00788R001900440010-4 AGENT REPORT For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AFi 381.20; the propan ant agency is the Office of the Assistant Ch [of of Staff for Intel IIgance. I NAME OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT 2. DATE SUWITED 3. CONTROL SYMBOL OR FILE NUMBER HU--1057/8314/01 4. REPORT OF FINDINGS On 20 Decemuer 1983, Source ZB-Ol was interviewed concerning personnel and activities within a building complex to determine if there was any intelligence interest in the complex. Source stated substantially as follows: On the lower or first floor of the building were large rooms which appeared to be used as storage areas. Boxes with equipment, some of which may have been electronic (not further identified), were 'temporarily stored there after purchase and then transferred to some other location (not further identified). While the equipment was in the storage area it was thoroughly examined. The second and third floors of the building consisted primarily of living quarters. On what appeared to be the second floor was a section that had been converted into a conference like area. Two different types of personnel were associated with this building, the normal occupants and the visitors. The normal. occupants numbered approximately 20--22, had dark skin,, black hair, and spoke a very guttural language. The visitors numbered approxima ae:Ly 4--5, had a little lighter skin and heavy features, were from out of the country (not further identified), and spoke English? The visitors were not always in the building:' Source reported the visitors usually spent weekends at the building from Wednesday or Thursday through Monday, but there had been times when they were not in the building for weeks. When the visitors arrived at the building they were dressed i:n light colored sport coats and open neck shirts without ties. They looked like young businessmen. One of the visitors (not further identified) carried a hard piece of leather with a badge pinned to it. The normal occupants of the building were not totally aware of the activities of the visitors. Source was unable to provide a detailed description of the activities of the visitors but did state their activity i..L_iG ENCL SOURCES AND DEC : OADR N Nu NU-1 ICE. SENSIt1VE CL.:ASSIFILU BY: CC)R, 1 N S C 0 M 1\__._EASAB1_E TO FOREIGN Li NML_S (continued) REPLACES WD AGO FORM 241, 1 JUN 47, W041Cttl MAY BE USED. Approved For Release 2000/08 FORM 1 1 APA 52 96-00788R001900440010-4 Approved For Relfte2000MMMmOtTM-R P96-00 ROO1900440010-4 AGENT REP- RT For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-20; the proponant agency is the Office of the Assistant ChIef of Staff for lnteIgenc.. . NAME OF SURJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT 2. DATE SUPMITI(t 3. CONTROL $YMICt OR FILE NUMEER HU-105718314/O1 involved subterfuge (not further identified) , staging (not further identified), and training (riot further identified). One of the visitors appeared to be an authority figure. He was approximately .5191" to 7'11", 155 - 165 pounds, with black hair combed straight back; he had a strange look in his eyes (not further identified), and a "rotten personality", "a mystical mind", was intelligent, ""politically minded", and was "'d little bit around the bend, crazy wise." He was involved in engineering , orijanizing , and directing teams ( not furtherr? iddentified) in support of a larger plan or operation. The ultimate aim of this larger plan was to cause a disruption or upset stability (not further identified) by effecting the news media. The teams did not appear to know or understand the full. consequences of what they were doing. This visitor appeared to be reporting to two people (not further identified), neither of whom knew of the other. No further amplifying information concerning SUBJECT was obtained from Source during this interview. AGENT'S NOTES: Information provided by Source relevant to descriptions of rooms or offices may be accurate independent of their locations within buildings. Source is sometimes unable to accurately relate the position of rooms within buildings, or the position of a building within a group of buildings, due to the nature of his access to a targeted area. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT FORM ' APRAZ JAL PefEt"'Inge' d0'dYbg/tYV. tlA-uRFDP96-0078"8' M 66WVd6Td'