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November 4, 2016
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June 23, 1998
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July 6, 1984
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Approved For ReleaselSfi Q R DP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 IAGPA-F-SD 06 July 1984 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - HU-1072/8404/63 (U) 1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 290810 March 1984, source #63 was interviewed by monitor #66 in an attempt to verify the suspected location of an individual identified as William F. Buckley. The project 8404 sponsor had provided an overhead photograph of the suspected building, a map of the area, and a photograph of Buckley (see Incl 1). 2. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) For this interview source was initially shown the photograph of Buckley and asked to describe his perceptions of Buckley's location. No other identifying data was provided to source at the time of the interview. After the interview, source was shown the overhead photograph. All other intelligence information was withheld for use as feedback and cuing for possible subsequent interviews. 3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared (see Incl 2). 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview. Attached to the report was a drawing provided by source and an overhead photograph depicting the suspected location of Buckley and an area of interest to source (see Incl 3). Association with the below named individual and Military Intelligence is CONFIDENTIAL. 3 Incl as SG1I NOTE: Information of immediate operational value was provided to sponsor immediately, or as soon as possible, after the interview. CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM WARNING NOTICE! DECL: OADR Cent et ~>ct+ er SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAM RESTRICT DISSEMINATION TO THOSE NOT RELEASABLE TO PO FEIGIT NATIONALS WITH VERIFIED ACCESS vw%vwwll 001 70001-0 CAI~W d r Release 2000/08/08: CIA- 8 Lk4 rx L. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 1-_ Approved For Releas W-11 All I A 96-00788R001900570001-0 HU-1072/8404/63 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview 0810 hours 29 March 1984. I've provided you with a photograph of an individual which you located yesterday. Today, using this. photograph to focus your attention on his location and describe his location to me. #63: ...... Miss break .... A is flat, solid, man made, B is, no B. Miss break ...... A is flat, solid, man made, B is building. Stage 2---gray, block shaped, large. #66: Be careful of your structure, there (mumble) dimensions. #63: Um, um. #66: Build in stage 2. #63: Patterned, square pattern .......... A is rising, man made, B is building, stage 2---square,....AI break--I don't know what it was. Stage 2---dimensional, AT, EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG. Dimensional---squarish, dimensional is large, AI break---strange. ........ Sketch,....tangible---is building, dimensional---is large, stage 2--is gray, ...........intangibles---confusion break, AOL break--atrium. #66: Describe, before you go on, describe to me what atrium means to you. #63: A hole in the middle of a building. #66: All right. #63: And again, as yesterday, it's a sort of a strange thing, I don't know whether it's a hole from looking down on it or from underneath of it. #66: AOL break that reminds me of atrium concept? #63: Um, um. #66: Need to reacquire in stage 4, location of individual in photograph. Approved For Release 2 / / 96-00788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 4Q. . - 96-00788R001900570001-0 #63: ......Tangible---is room,.... tangible---is partition, AOL break---like a counter, like when you walk into the principal's office, they've always got a big counter that you walk up to, to talk to the secretaries and stuff, that sort of thing. #66: Something in this place where he is, is like that. #63: Um, um. #66: That's about all you know. #63: Um, um. Sketch---....... #66: (mumble) been able to sketch. #63: Um, um. Okay. Tangible --is room, #66: This becomes a sketch. of the room. #63: Tangible---is petition, and I've labeled counter on the sketch. #66: This becomes the room within the building. #63: Um, um. #66: All right, fine. Working on a stage (mumble) matrix of the room within the building. #63: Stage 2---is patterned wall, square pattern. #66: That would be stage 2, patterns, tangibles, wall? #63: Um, um. (mumble) wall, gray, stage 2-- is gray, stage 2--is blue, stage 2---is white. Sketch---AOL break--piano, that's a sketch of this object here. #66: The object in the room not labeled in the building? #63: Yes. Stage 2, Dimensional, AT, EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG. Sketch ----- AOL break---row of drawers,.... sketch---........ AI break--strange piece of equipment. #66: Okay, if I understanding that AOL break now, my understanding that sketches on page 4 represent objects and things in the room? Approved For Release 6-00788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 96-00788 R001900570001-0 #63: Yes, this is still that object behind the counter and I will label that object. And this is the room where I place him. #66: Okay, something strange, like you've drawn there is in the room. #63: Um, um #66: Okay. #63: A console or desk of some kind, AOL break---console or desk of some kind. #66: Seems ornate or having unusual curves or patterns (mumbles) on this thing. #63: It's modern, intangible--is modern, stage 2---is gray, brown, stage 2--is flat, dimensional--tangibles--is top, dimensional is raised, tangible--is top, ...... tangible--is knobs, S2, D, AI,EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG. Dimensional--is large hallways, tangibles--hallways, ..intangibles--classroom type environment,.... dimensional---is large, stage 2---squarish, tangible--building. #66: Okay. #63: Dimensional--it's surrounded,... tangible --- are trees, ...... intangible---is park like environment. #66: Okay. #63: Dimensional---is multi floors, dimensional---multi, tangible--is floors, ..... AOL break---He's not on the ground floor. It's an AOL because it's not on the ground floor, as opposed to saying what floor he is on. #66: Um, um. Okay, I want to hold on to the break for a minute, because I have a question. #63: Okay. #66: Looking at, spread your sheets out here, is this multi story building the same as you have sketched on page 2 with atrium like view? #63: Um, um. Approved For Release -007888001900570001-0 Approved For Release 6-00788R001900570001-0 #66: You feel like you're in the same place? #63: Um, um. #66: You haven't changed, okay, good. Now at this point, holding on the break, I would like you to summarize the building as you see it now. #63: All right. #66: Poor choice of words, as you know it now. #63: ..... Largsquare shaped, atrium of some sort. #66: Okay, in a summary, the AOL concepts would go with conditional words, right? #63: Um, um #66: Fine. So you might say like an atrium, or remind me of an atrium, you wouldn't want that in a written summary the AOL gets written in terms of-- #63: --Something an analyst would understand. #66: Right, conditional (mumble). What else-- #63: We put in () maybe a covered atrium, maybe that's why it's so confusing to me. #66: Okay. #63: Gray, (dark gray) in color, surrounded by a park like environment, trees, roads. Intangibles--is official. Building is official feeling. #66: A school like feeling or was that (mumble)--- #63: Um, um, no that's inside. #66: That's intangible? #63: Yeah. #66: Okay. #63: Building is official feeling and has a classroom type feeling inside. #66: Let's see if we can describe the inside a little bit more, describe the patterned walls, the colors Approved For Release 2^QKC6. ?GZ"0788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 in the patterned walls. Look back at your sheet, (mumble) access in your mind. #63: Okay, let's see. Inside, large hallway, steps in hallways. #66: Do we still have the open in the center feeling here, when we talk about the inside? #66: Okay. #63: I'm inside and --- #66: Fine, I understand. You're kind of too narrow focussed in hallway to wonder what else is around you. Okay. #63: Okay. Inside the room has a square patterned wall, like this. #66: Do you associate any colors? #63: Hm? #66: Do you associate any colors with the patterns? Look back up here. #63: Yeah, I got, went up to the (mumble) square patterned wall like acoustic tile sort of. #66: Is that a conditional AOL? It seems to me you've listed a lot of colors for those patterns. #63: Yeah, well, the, from about half way up is acoustic tile like substance, white in color. And then from half way down the wall is blue, gray or blue or gray. This room has a partition like a counter top as you enter the room. Behind this is the desk or console like object. #66: Okay. Now, have we got our pages numbered so we know where we are. #66: Okay. Okay, let's move to a clean sheet of, paper now, where we are 1,2,3,4.5,6. #63: 6. Approved For Release 96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 Approved For Release 96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 #66: On page 7, using the photograph as cuing, give me a stage 3 sketch of the building in the-center of the page. #63: Doesn't make much sense, but that's what keeps coming back. #66: All right, fine. Now on----okay, fine, picture the idea here, sketch an idea, that's good. Now, at the top of page 7, put N for north. Now you have a feeling then for North is kind of to your upper left. #63: Um, um. #66: Okay, that's fine. So go ahead and label the pages, objectify on the page, North is that way, south is that way, and east and west. #63: Okay. #66: Just put little letters. Okay, now page 8. And you can work your from stage 1 on. We'll go first north of the building, your cuing is north of the building. #63: Okay, just a second. There's a big road up here. #66: Big road north of building. #63: And another road's running down here, smaller road. #66: Smaller road-- #63: East of building. #66: --east of building. #63: West of building. Sorry. #66: A smaller road west of building, all right. #63: A "w" sideways looks like an E. #66: All right. #63: Underline it so it doesn't it get confused there. #66: Okay, are we ready to move in another direction, you're are declared with that way or do you want to to on. Approved For Release -00788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 2 -00788 R001900570001-0 #63: Yeah, let's go ahead and leave with that. #66: All right. #63: Let's say we go to east now. #66: All right. #63: Sketch---to the building, east of our building. It's lower area, (mumble) low ground. There's several buildings, seem to build on one another. There are trees here too. #66: Okay. #63: So now we need to go south. #66: go south. #63: .....Wooded area ...... flat wooded area .... This is our building, label it site and south is this way and you got a flat wooded area here, and there's something long .......... I'm unsure what that is. #66: Square object? #63: Yeah, it could be a road or a ...long building. #66: Some squarish type object? #63: Um, um. #66: Not sure what it is, okay. That's the other side of the forest? #63: Um, um. #66: All right. We will have one more task then. #63: All right. #66: We'll go on to page 9 where cuing. Now using the photograph I've shown you of this individual and you've now described his physical location, the building and this room, now describe to me other people in and around the person in the photograph. #63: Okay. #66: And we can just call that significant others. Approved For Release 6-00788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 96-00788 R001900570001-0 #63: Okay. ......People.......official person, AOL break--I'm almost ashamed to declare this.--like COL Klink in Hogan's Heros. #66: You're reminded of a COL Klink type person in the military or something. #63: Whatever his name was, Klinger or something. #66: Klink (mumble). Okay, I suggest you put your stage 4 matrix across your paper so that you have some structure in which you may work. #63: Okay. S2, D, AI, EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG. #66: Looking for significant others at that location of interest. #63: Our guy's anxious ..... butterflies in the stomach type anxious ...... (gurgle in #63's stomach said "come up", jean's note) .........Tangible---people, stage 2---is in dark color, clothes. #66: Clothes is a tangible? #63: Tangible, right. In the same room, tangible---is in the room, dimensional --- is near door, ..... dimensional---is many people, tangible---is people, .....dimensional---10 to 12 people, ....coming and going ....... tangible---is clothes, stage 2---is similar, dark,..... intangible---is foreign, ... Stage 2---is fair complected. Stage 2---is dark, tangible---is hair, dimensional---is short hair, tangible --- is hair. ........... (mumble) um.. confusion break---okay, I feel like he, our man, is on north side of building,..... #66: Declare the confusion. #63: Uh? #66: Declare the confusion. #63: Yes, I'm doing, well, the confusion is, really not where to put it and why it came in now, other than EI --- are very people related and if he were going to try to talk to me and tell me where he was, I think it would come through on the EIs and that's what I was prompting for at the time I got the and I feel like he's on the north side of the building, Approved For Release 2QAZ". Mx=11" 0788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 2 F-M-00788 R001900570001-0 not on the ground floor, like 2nd floor maybe. Okay, this is north face of building, like he's right about there (x). #66: Okay. #66: We'll worry about that later. Your north versus compass north is not relevant, as long as north is separate from (mumble) #63: Yeah. Okay, I have an AOL break---of German, World War II uniforms. #66: Just about ready to end now, so I would like you to kind of open yourself up to the signal line and see what comes in here as we rap this up. #63: That's about it, I've drawn a little sketch here again trying to show where I keep feeling where he is. #66: Within in the building? #63: Um, um. #66: Okay. #63: You got that? #66: Okay, we'll do an end there. At this time, I'm going to show you some overhead imagery of a general location. I'd like to now get your opinion and discussion and your feelings about this overhead imagery. #63: All right. #66: Now, I have to caution you that there are some arrows and things on this which may or may not apply, so I don't want you to be prejudged by the arrows on the map. Because they have the words "suspected building" on here, but as we learned late yesterday, this is more like a suspected neighborhood or area versus any one particular building. #63: That feels good. #66: Right, I have the exact (mumble) Approved For Release 6-00788 R001900570001-0 1 I""" Approved For Release 2 -007888001900570001-0 #63: Wooded area and a strange building with things jutting out from it like that, the funny pointed roof on that. #66: Let the tape reflect that the source indicated, without orienting now, has indicated the area of interest yesterday, which I don't feel at liberty to say what it is now, but it's the area of interest yesterday with the, what he described as the Washington Monument like tower next to it which you didn't happen to mention today. Now, yesterday, the photograph you were shown did not show this, it was like that. #63: Um, um. #66: All right. Source has indicated his feeling about the square shaped with the open center. Okay, let's, I'll let you look through the rest of these and we have some different angles here, you can see we're in the same neighborhood. #63: And it's also open from underneath. #66: Okay. source also notes that the square shaped thing is opened from underneath as he sees from this different angle here. #63: Is that a cemetery or something? #66: Yes. Now, we're going to look at another angle here which is about the same. #63: That doesn't look, the straight(mumble) it doesn't look like place they could hold anybody though, it looks like a big open walkway area or something. #66: Okay. I know what it is, so don't worry about it. Now, at this time, using these photographs, let's take your stage 3 sketch and see if we can't orient anything with your stage 3 sketch. The first thing thing we'll do is orient your north with map north. #63: Okay. #66: Okay, now let's orient the word "big road" with big road. Okay, where we orient "big road" we get the big road here and the smaller road to the left, that seems to orient. Now, opposite labeled big road would be the south area, and what do we have in south declaration? Approved For Releas P96-007888001900570001-0 Approved For Release 6-00788RO01 900570001 -0 #63: Wooded, flat wooded area. #66: Okay, let me see, where's your piece here. #63: Let's see, number 8. #66: Page 8. #63: There it is. #66: Page 8, south we should see wooded area and then-- #63: --It comes to an abrupt halt down here on something. #66: ---Unsure road or long building. Okay, if we look to the opposite we see a wooded area, followed by a cemetery here and I can't tell from this photograph, let's look back at something here, ....All we can see is a wooded area and the flat cemetery here and we can't tell what your strange object is. Now all these things are headstones, this funny thing, funny squarish things is headstones. #63: I would tend to believe it's something like this, I had the feeling of something long and that it ended the wooded area. #66: Oh, so the wooded area was bounded by something, ay. #63: Um, um #66: Maybe road, maybe something long, okay. And the woods and this. #63: The fenced in area, here. #66: Right. #63: It's long or something. #66: It definitely has a deliberate stop to it though? #63: Yes. #66: Okay, now, so if we, we're going back now to the map orientation, big road matches, small road matches, wooded area matches, let's see what we can find opposite small road, what was supposed to be there? Approved For Release DP96-00788R001900570001-0 Approved For Release 2URUXtLUV 6-00788RO01 900570001 -0 #63: East on mine,, well we should be south on the actual map, I said there was a tall building that has protrusions jutting out from it and it's got sort of a peaked roof on it. #66: We do have a funny shaped building with a very strange roof on it and little strange things on the side and of course we're not concerned with distance, because you're not addressing yourself to distance. #63: Um, um. #66: So we do have what looks like maybe a match in terms of orientation, if we match big road, we get little road, and we get forest and we get funny building with striations, this one here. Let's look at some different angles and see if we can't get size. I can't see from the angles we have how many floors that might be. Now our angles just don't show it. #63: But, (mumble) 2 inches along the side here, I mean it's very definitely like that. #66: Okay. Yesterday,. of note is yesterday when I told you to go to the place, I think you wound up here, if you remember yesterday, you're drawings look a lot like that too, maybe you don't remember yesterday's drawings. And when I asked you to look across the way or across the street, you started talking about the Washington Monument building, which is not more than 50 feet away. I thought I was asking you to do this, but you insisted on talking about this. Now notice when you said surrounded, not only did it have forest surrounding it but it has very deliberate wall around it here. #63: Um, um #66: This whole thing can be considered one unit, I know what this is and this is one function, like Ft Meade is one function, this is one functional entity here. #63: Let's this is what I had as north. #66: North means road to us? #63: Um, um, okay so, north should be big road, right, so the location I have him in is here. Approved For Release 96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 Approved For Release 1 .101,171,1j. 6-00788R001900570001-0 #66: Um, um. The question is that he might be over in this one too. Being this is a singular unit through the day time, you may go all through this area. #63: Um, um. #66: So, I guess we can say, we can end by saying then that you find him on the big road side of the building somehow. The room in which he's located is on the big road side of the building. #63: Let me think, okay. #66: All right. #63: Okay. ........... (mumble) here, there .... yes big road side. #66: Okay, big road side of the building. Now, let's rap it up then. Thank you very much. Approved For Release 96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 Approved For Release 2000/0 788R0019005700 Sy L9 07,11 0910 A . _ n 8R00 2 g-% Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-0 1-0 -F -AOL L/si4 4r,rzt~ &/- Pt4~ Pte- ,wee Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP9 001-0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CI~-RDP96-007 5-Z 1 Ar Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP Aa L-- kLlsl~ Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RP96-00788 1900570 L.O 5 --L 1) A - Et T T Ao t- klq Ao19& SK Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA-RDP96-00788 C - 5-- 2_ ApWoved For R ease 20DOI /08: CIA-RgP96-0078 I~SIC~ hL &a" - at, CL uh f~Q.dl ~ /lunneu--~.+a{-Qr+1 Q ~L 1AAAj aAAd J401__ 4_ ~dr~~ f -rL pj~4,j 'l- ppidd o" e j9~ 7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA-RDP =1 0001-0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96- _ 01-0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RD 01-0 8 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00 IN A dwroa'Jaaxea.- PA4 w"k4 &4,a, Approved For Release Q rJP96-00788RO01 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788 0019 o~.~, pROpPc u. awl anew--el -Fl.- U-P~`g~C`a~?pG` 5-Z. D AT ET T P xqae( x:90. d,r.k. Approved For Release 200 dkL 1462. A-/s /u, 788 R00 005 0001-0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 !OCIA-RDP96-0011 5- 2 D AT ET T hL AdL S14 Approved For Release 2000/08g! V 788R0019005700'0 f?& mjjtRBM 11 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96- S-2- Pa El 11 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA-R=="0570001-0 1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT Approved For R se 200 For use of this form, see FM 30.17(C) AR 381-20; the proponent agency 7. *W. Office of the deck,tont Chi of of Staff for Intelligence. PROJECT FRANCIS 4. REPORT OF FRJDINGS On 29 March 1984, Source IS-63 was interviewed in an attempt to verify the suspected location of SUBJECT. Source stated substantially as follows: Source was unable to verify the suspected location of SUBJECT. SUBJECT a large square atrium like building .(see-EXHIBIT I). The building was dark gray in color and was surrounded by..a.park like environment with trees and roads. The building had an official/classroom (not further identified) type appearance inside. Inside'-the building were large. hallways with steps in the hallways. At the conclusion of the interview Source was shown an overhead photograph of the suspected location. Source indicated SUBJECT was most likely located in an area similar to the mosque shown in the upper left of the overhead photograph (see EXHIBIT II) near the suspect building. Source provided no further amplifying information on the location of SUBJECT during this interview. Attached hereto as EXHIBIT I is a drawing provided by Source. EXHIBIT II is an overhead photograph depicting the suspected location of SUBJECT and an area of interest to Source. WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE CLASSIFIED BY: INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND DECL:. OADR METHODS INVOLVED NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS 5. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT FORM REPLACES WD AGO FO `~ 1 JU j -1P~, 1 fQlf 4 g eiri~i .D. *U.S. etawrnmgnt Printing Offices 1982-261-1a186t9228 A 0~ For Release _M IQ 6nDa6-00788RO01 J:-IV C L -5 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900570001-0 ARMY IN EL LWG E CE AND SECURITY COMMAND EXHIBIT COVER SHEET SUBJECT: FILE NUMBER: `1u-1O72-/84a4/63 PREPARING UNIT: AGENT REPORT DATED: DESCRIPTION: Drawings PFGRADED UN'CLA'SSIFIED Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : [Xgj8PP9$-00788R001 900570001=6STFXRATED FR'01 IA Label 1 ..',;ro iUCLOSURES 1 Tan 78) 4 L Approved For R Approved For Release 2000/08 IA-RDP96-00788R OO1 00570001-0 Approved For Release 2000/08108 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900570001-0 US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND EXHIBIT COVER SHEET SUBJECT:PROJECT FRANCIS FILE NUMBER: Hu-1o72/6404/63 PREPARING UNIT: AGENT REPORT BATED: DESCRIPTION: Overhead photograph Approved For Release 2000/08/08: (SIB P96-00788R00190057d I; TA Label 1 ~.4 1 Jan 78 SG1C Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0