TRANSCRIPT, HU-1080/8404/(Sanitized)

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November 4, 2016
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September 5, 2003
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April 20, 1984
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Approved For Release CRIf96-00788RO01900630001-3 0 C. TRANSCRIPT HU-1080/8404 #66: Okay, this will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0950 hours on the 20th April 1984 with Okay, as you have requested, I'm going to show you a series of pieces of information and that you feel you require in order to attain some attachment with the subject at hand. I'm going to do this slowly with your prompting. Okay. The first thing I want to show you is a picture of a missing individual, this picture is several years old and is the picture that was used to make his identification badge. So this picture is several years old. That is the picture used for his identification badge. Okay. ...... I don't know, when I say I don't know, I have times, sometimes extremely hard to put in, this person, when I say apparently simply means that it is so, it's just the way that I'm speaking. SG1I SG1I STAT CLQ Approved For Release 2S'EtRET STAT Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Rele 0 /R ETA-DP96-00788RO01900630001-3 That appears to be correct. Okay. I want this picture, and right now, please tell me if I'm wrong with you people, I am freezing, are you? #66: It's so cool in this building, but I'm not freezing, and I 've got short sleeve shirt. And I'm freezing. So I just want to make that note, I'm just giving you how I work, okay. We understand kinesthetic impressions. Okay. Okay. Now, something I failed to cover before we go on to the next is, our three principal questions are, where is he, how is he and who captured him or a Approved For Release SEC:E16-OO788ROOI90063000I-3 Approved For Relea CEQyi_1 fEFP9600788R001 900630001-3 various version of who captured him, who do we go see to get his release? Those are three primary Okay. The next thing I would like to show you is a picture that was provided quickly by the kidnappers, 12 days ago, approximately 12 days ago. There was no note, no ransom demand, just as though they were saying to us, we have this person. All right. STAT STAT rN I""* tilt Approved For Releas /1 RE96-00788R001 900630001-3 4 Approved For Release 00 RcEDT9600788R001 900630001-3 Yes. ..... I'm going to ask a question, so it could be a back relationship. You did say there were five people, were the five people with him? #66: We don't know whether or not they were all together at any one time. I have the pictures here, if you'd like to look at them, of the other four. Okay. It's just that I keep seeing a man in a building, or let's say a room, I'm placing him now there, okay, there are others and when the number came was five and just wanted to make sure that I was not being influenced by the five people that you were telling, this is what I want to make straight. #66: Do you feel that the number of 5 pertains to all hostages or captives or are there other type of guard personnel? These are, see, it appears more like guard personnel, because of the image come, you know I'm visual and (mumble)-- #66: Yes, I understand. Approved For Release 2003/091110: "~6-00788ROO1900630001-3 Approved For Rel 919A`RDP96-007888001900630001-3 --is that the person was dressed something like fatigues, but I don't want to call them fatigues, okay, that kind of dress, with a gun, put the muzzle over the, down over the shoulder. #66: That appears to be correct. Okay. And he, they are, but there are five of these. Five people with guns slung, muzzle down over their shoulders in a fatigue like dress. Yes, yes. But I don't see the five, there's only one that comes out to me as the model and I just wanted to make sure that I was not mistaking myself with the other at this moment. #66: All right, very good. That would appear to be I can tell you that this man's given no information whatsoever. But the breaking point, I feel that if he has any more of what they're giving him that would be more eminent, that, he will not give in and that's going to be the strong tie and that's very close, I have to say that and I'm saying close, I'm giving you 48 hours. Approved For Release*?Oa3 9 1 RF.-f P96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For Relea a 3C/ QR ETDP9600788R001900630001-3 You're saying that he is not healthy? Not healthy and whatever condition, you know the aspect here. I merely saying that I see that within 48 hours something is going to happen to this person, okay. I'm not death, I'm not saying anything, cause he's at a break very low point, so that's what I'm trying to say. Okay, there's eminence involved? Eminence involved, on your side as well as the---. They have refused any medical attention to this man. ........All right, I see streets, but they appear like cobble stones to me, not tarred. That's possibly correct. And the houses are low and he is not hidden in where you'd be looking in a hiding place. He's actually in some kind of village or town. #66: That would appear to be correct. Approved For Relea '$Y(t'TA-FjDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 Approved For ReI 31 rL.LA 'EI1 RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 I also see a squared door and the houses are made of brick or stone and you would go into this house with something like this up. This guy keeps this thing going, instead of going straight up, straight into a room, it appears, when I go into my, I'm going to go in there and there is a window that I want to look through to give you some direction of where I am. All right. Now, I can't tell you which country yet, all I'm saying that these are the impressions that I'm getting. ....... There's a small, sentence that he's sending. `There are words that I cannot grasp though, but it's meaningful to you and the words are (mumble). There would be four, five words, six words, it's a short sentence. I keep he--he keeps repeating this and I don't know what this means. Can you sound it out and write it out? I probably will once I get-- Approved For Releaj8 -1DDP96-00788R001900630001-3 8 Approved For Rel / R EDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 f, wt Okay. I know it's a short sentence, it's like a message, but yet it's, would mean nothing to any...if I was to hear it, it meant nothing to me. #66: But we may be able to find that out. Understand that he has been contacted in this means before and he may at the subconscious level now realize that he has link of communication here. .....I might ask you one question. What if there're children, what do you know. According to our records, he is unmarried. He's unmarried. This, the reason I asked that woman came into mind, is there, do you know anything about talk about a woman, can you pick up any--? It's something like, when you ask, Irene or Ina, or short again, something to that effect. Either it's a nickname or, I'm giving you (mumble) by phonetics. Approved For ReleP96-007888001900630001-3 Approved For Re Ip-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 CPU Ask the question when I'm in contact with him more fully. I'm going to work by contacting within him primarily and then, cause this seems to be strongest link that I have with him now. #66: Yes. He has previously wanted to talk about a woman. I don't know if it's a romantic, but there seems to be some woman that he seems to want to talk about. ......Question. Either, it's about the country or about him, but I hear a foreign language, does he speak a foreign language? #66: We believe that he does speak a foreign language and he is in a foreign country. He may speak many foreign languages, or several foreign languages. Because foreign language came fairly strong. Can you get a feeling for the style of the foreign language, is it an asian language or romance language, guttural? Yeah, that will come to me-- rl~ f% Approved For Relea 9/1R? P96-00788R001900630001-3 10 Approved For R !r1=1- I IDP96-007888001900630001-3 .kj --When you said gutteral, I get the cold feeling so let's reach toward that. ..........At one point, wherever he was, whether it's there now, I see myself high on a hill or at least what appears to be high on a hill, overlooking something below. Do you follow, if I was high, and then it would be like a city below or something to that effect. (mumble). ...I'm just putting this together so, you know, #66: I understand that you're trying to get your anchor, your contact, so that when you go contact him--(mumble). Okay. What else do we have'from this point? I can now tell you where he was taken from and the date and that will at this time reveal the city. EGRET Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 11 Approved For Releas e1RP9600788R001 900630001-3 Okay. The first, because of my contact with him so I can be personal and it's rare that I ask this, and I will, I want his full name so that I can pronounce it and if there was a nickname given to him I would like to have that too. #66: All right. I do not know about a nickname , however his full name is William Francis Buckley. He was born on the 30th of May in 1928 in Medford, Massachusetts. Okay, that's all I need to know. So, ah...repeat the name again one more time please. Mr. William Francis Buckley. William Francis Buckley. Or sounds like the Buckley. Is he the same person? No, he's not. I didn't think I, okay, William Francis Buckley, okay #66: All right. Approved For Release 200310'93116 : - bP96-00788R001900630001-3 12 Approved For Rele 1cR :Ekf DP96-00788R00l 900630001-3 SEr. 11 Okay, then. Where was he last seen? All right. Where was he kidnapped from and then where was he #66: Those would be the same question, same answer. He's last known to be and last seen in this place and he's been gone since. No, I'm sorry. I now show you a part of a city map from the city of Beirut,. Lebanon and his residence building is as indicated on the red dot. He was taken from this location at approximately 8:00 in the morning local time on the 16th of March in 1984 and he has not been seen or heard from until approximately 12 days ago when the picture you had, and there are many concepts and ideas. I have a map of the entire country as well, if you like? He may or may not be still within this. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 GD 96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Releas 3/ 9/ ERFP9600788R001900630001-3 Let me see the map of the country. Boy that's been my whole background. ................ Want to do now is, some of the things that I do to verify for my own self, if he has left the country (mumble). .......... I'm going to ask you one question, where was the picture delivered? #66: To the British Embassy in the city of Beirut. It was slipped under the door. Um, um. Okay. Cold chills, the man is still within the area. There's no need to search any other country. Okay, you feel he's still in the country. Lebanon. Okay. City, not sure, but I'm going to #66: Now, because of this sparse data we have, I want to tell you that map that you are looking at obviously doesn't show every little town and village that are around and there're are many, many of them. I know Lebanon, cause I lived, well not really lived, ,but this is the actual, it's may ancestors (mumble), Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 14 Approved For Release _2003LQ99/10.1-I RD}96-00788 R001900630001-3 this is why I find so (mumble), this is (mumble) happening there. Yes. So I can give you a better description, more than I have now and apparently my description was (mumble). That type of-- Part that type thing. All right, now I do have a map of Beirut. Would you? Yes. Well, I wanted to explain to you that I don't want to front load you. No, no, no. (Mumble) I do have a map of Beirut, but I don't want to front load you and say this is where he is, because we Approved For Release 2Q03/19/,1 Rc I P96-00788R001900630001-3 15 Approved For ReI 3/ EiiDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 No, no. That's why I want to, that's why I said you, all I'm saying is this. I'm saying that I know he's in Lebanon, but I can not tell you whether he's in Beirut or not, okay. All right. Okay. .............................At this moment according to the map, I do not find him in Beirut. #66: All right. That makes our intelligence problem a little more difficult, because detailed maps of other places are very hard to come by. We'll be very dependent upon you then for geographical descriptions, once you contact him. Yeah. Let me put it this way, I have to assure you that there will be no difficulty, he is not in Beirut, the message I was getting while in contact, I'm not in Beirut center, Beirut, but I'm not too far from there, okay, so what the message came to me, don't be looking for me in the mountains or, you know, whatever the aspect, it is still a civilized area where you would not suspect, okay, but it is not the city of Beirut. Approved For Release;0 / I96-00788 R001900630001-3 Approved For Rele so IB/09' q IA DP96-00788R001900630001-3 In the city proper, like you consider downtown. The city proper, yeah that's what I'm saying, but it is within the vicinity of Beirut. Whatever the word vicinity means at this time. Right. Okay, I think when we're in contact with him, we'll be able to find out a little more information. Ah...can I have his picture, I'll look at this. Which one, you'd like both of them. I want the one, yeah, please, both of them. ........ I want it recorded a small word being sent, it's called, is EL, that's, you have AL here but that's not the word I hear, I hear it more like E L. #66: That would appear to be like much other information that's been recorded. What are the words following E L? Approved For Release, 2003/09110 :614- P96-00788 R001900630001-3 17 Approved For Release Q3 ROIL IA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 Apparently this sounds like EL HYBIT, I know Arabic, but I'm not getting the sound properly, maybe I should wait til later so that, because if he's pronouncing it right, I will be able to give you the right or as close as I can, since I know Arabic (mumble) The language barrier here will not be a problem for me. #66: If in fact he speaks Arabic and I don't know that for sure. Yeah, but he may pronounce certain words (mumble) I understand, I understand. But at least what I'm going to be finding is that when I do hear certain things, I'm able to pick up certain things, it will be very much simpler for him since I know the language. I never thought I would run into something with my own language. I want it recorded that word EL HADIT, HADIT, I do know that it's a place in the mountains, but this is not what it is here, okay, it is not, EL HADIT isn't here, I know there is a place outside Lebanon called EL HADIT. #66: Can you spell that for our typist, please? Approved For Relea v 3 9 P96-00788RO01900630001-3 ?E-T Approved For Releasf /1 p I96-00788R001900630001-3 Okay. It would be, I know, the Arabic, and I pronounce it also. EL-HADAT, as well as I can write it from the Arabic. It's pronounce EL-HADIT. I don't want you to mistake EL-HADIT with the region of Lebanon that's the area where message's coming through, that, you know, something EL-HADIT, where he is. #66: I want to be clear about,y.ou say, that we shouldn't There is a place called EL-HADIT, it's in the mountains. And you're saying this is not the place. This is not the place. I'm still remaining within the area of the area, not Beirut, but what do we know about Beirut today. #66: In the strong area. Approved For Release 28E1941- 'UPT-00788R001900630001-3 -VW Approved For Relea ,f 11R "Wo-- f P96-00788ROO1900630001-3 Strong area, he is not in the center of Beirut, but in the outskirt of Beirut but still not far, so you people will not have to go climbing mountains or, now it comes familiar to me, when I said something high, okay, with (mumble), few, because I know that outside, you know, close by (mumble), if you look close seems to appear and you see the water in some of this. I'm presenting now logic over the knowledge that I have known, if you hear that from the room, remember that, because I'm familiar with the terrain. It does not effect my work, in fact it enhances it. You know when it interferes. Yeah, I know when it interferes. Okay, that good. Okay. You think we might be what you call the outskirts Um, um. Approved For Releas c0 I DP96-00788RO01900630001-3 20 Approved For Rele~ ER :EA DP96-00788RO01900630001-3 #66: And the word EL HADIT comes to mind, but not the mountainous region of EL HADIT. be, you know, EL HADIT, you know, could be the name #66: of a street. Okay. Okay? I don't know at this point. Maybe when we contact him, it will become clear. Yeah. You know it's strange, but I have to say that, all of this happened with me before and I'd like to the information that I got, when this happened before. I'm not saying past life. I'm just saying that somewheres in the (mumble), all this happened before. #66: What you're saying is that you having engaged a little, experience about being involved with this honest problem. Approved For Relea /1 ~-Fr 96-00788R001900630001-3 G 21 R -C. Approved For ReIe 0 /0 . CIA DP96-00788R001900630001-3 T,-),-R Yes, and you being there, now I recall why you came back to my mind. Now remember just one more thing. Or I hope to God I'm not too late. I don't whether that's worth anything better, just if you (mumble) this is de-ja-vu, something close. Something close (mumble). Okay, anything else that I need. Yes. William Buckley will be enough. His age would be like 50. He was born in 1928. So he's 54. I can find out about this woman, the sometimes I may be speaking fairly low when you're monitoring the tapes, just say,I actually can not hear you, would you repeat. Okay. There is at times when I'm really in the scene or involvement as an observer (mumble), as this point my voice becomes very, very low. SG1I Approved For Relea 0 -fDP96-007888001900630001-3 22 Approved For Rel e~3/REiDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 #66: I understand, we've dealt with the problem before, and we have very good quality equipment for that reason. I'm ready. All right. I'm going to use the bed. I'll lie down and (mumble) I'd like to be alone and I don't need the map, I will go over there and make a contact. And with the contact with him then he will tell me certain things that of terrain and ask all the questions you want, please do not be-- Okay, you'd like to be alone in the room. Yes, alone. And I can talk to you through a little microphone or headphone. Or a headphone, I can wear them unless you have an intercom, whatever you will use is okay with me. SEC RET 1 Approved For Release 2003/09/103 07 -R P96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For ReI 3/ R0 EC RRDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 ~ 08" #66: That's fine. We're now moving into the other room. PAUSE MOVED TO OTHER ROOM TO PREPARE: ....................... I am slightly outside of the city of Beirut. This means I'm in the outskirt, but not in the center of the city of Beirut. Where I am, the street is a flat street, it's not ah..climbing street, that means it's not a hill, the street is not a hill. It is flat. It is a narrow street and what appears to me is the people living there are lower than middle class people. Again by outskirt, I don't want you to think I'm miles away. From this street, it' is not from the street. But from the window, going in and I'm going up and if I was going to look out of the window, what appears to me and I have to say appears to me, I keep seeing either lower streets, ......... it's like I'm on one street and there's a street lower than me where there are houses, if I may use like steps, at least at this area of the outskirt of Lebanon. .....I see way out in the distance, it is apparent, I keep, water comes to my a far distance, by far distance I don't mean 100's of. miles that's what I'm saying. At Approved For Relea C 0' E-TDP96-00788RO01 900630001-3 24 Approved For in~MIUM. 6 TA-tDP96-00788R001900630001-3 a distance there's water. I can not make it whether it's the ocean or a swimming pool or something, there is water. And there are trees ...... ah....... An Arabic word which I don't know the definition as well as I know and maybe colloquial or sounding like this, even though I know Arabic, it doesn't make sense and there's some words that doesn't, SHAHALIEH, if I was to write it phonetic , SHAHALIEH, would be S H A L A Y, that is phonetically spelled, SHALAY, S H A L A Y, SHALAY. ........ It relates to the, something in regards to the area. .......... I'm going to go back into the house, It is apparent that the dialogue with him .............. I have to add here that I have now found what the gut, the,....that voice that does not, or the, what it sounds, was gut, I can't even pronounce the word, harsh voice or not romantic sound. It is apparent to me ah.... that how would I put it, ah.... the voice I was hearing is a man, not from Lebanon or the area. The guttural feeling or the guttural voice that I hear is giving me a connection that a country, ah..... hm.... What I'm experiencing, scene, oh, I'm sorry, well dressed in a uniform and .I will come back to the uniform and then a man dressed as the person there. But he is not Arabic in speaking voice. And I have to say the connection Approved For Releas 2 9P96-00788R001900630001-3 25 Approved For ReI 3/ IT-RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 here. The only way that I can, the voice, from the guttural, it's not German. Trying to think of other gutteral voices. It's not, I have to put that this person, whatever connection he has here, I would have to put Russian and that is quite apparent with what I call the double vision, that means position and how he acts now and if he was in his regular environment, he would be wearing a uniform and looks to me quite Russian. Now these are not the people you have to deal with, because I don't know what he's doing there, and that's that gutteral feeling and I'm getting the, those cold chills again, extremely cold chills at this point. ......... Do you know anything about kilometers, Yes. What would be, he's trying to say something, what would be, how many miles would 125 kilometers be? I just want to make sure I'm in contact here. ..... Okay, then I'm not getting him correctly then. ....... Let's, the number, how about 25 kilometers? 12 kilometers? ..........Okay. ............... I'm going to have to interpret what he's saying and I:.,,don't know from where, from what direction he was taken to the outskirts of Beirut, okay? I can tell you this, what he appears to him saying that it could not be more than 12 kilometers. You follow that? Kilometers, okay. Ah .......... Please keep also in note, that 1 Approved For Releas' $0 / 9 DP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For Relea 199/DP96-007888001900630001-3 'Zi through 5, he keeps repeating 1 through 5. He keeps repeating, 1, 2, 5. ..... It's not a number like 125, it's just says keep repeating 1, 2, 5. And he's very firm about. ................ Ah..shifting again, ah, I keep seeing close by to this street or section, which is slightly outside Beirut, that he keeps repeating, a (mumble) of what I'm getting that he's not away from there, but, and the reason that he was moved or went there is because of the aspects, the middle of Beirut, and I'll try to come back to that. There's a lot of noise that I hear around this street and the noise is like if they were, it's not gun shots, nothing like that, as if they were doing repair or construction, or machinery. But I don't see them, I only hear the noise from the room where he is. .............. Another sound that he's heard once in a while and he says he feels that it's like a plane, but he's not sure. ......... Oh boy. ........Okay. I was brought here something,..I was brought in a vehicle completely closed and therefore I have seen nothing, but I can only report to you the sounds of my surroundings. And some of them are extremely strong to my ear. ....... I can also hear people talking.... outside when I am brought close, or close to a window. It is the only window which ah....which.I can recognize. It is apparent r1% I-- I 16- Approved For Release R900630001-3 Approved For Release.2i}03/t91 -RDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 that in the other room the windows have been blocked or covered, so I can not tell you what I am seeing behind me. .......... I tell you that I have three people with me 24 hours a day. ...... These people change .... at times there are five people. The reason that I know this is when I'm, want to go to the bathroom and at one confrontation, there were five people. ...... Among themselves the people are speaking Arabic, but I not they. are not people from the country. ....... My perception of the person at this point is that they have a dark skin. They are not a white skin. ..... When I say my perception , I mean perception, off the person, in stuff like dungarees with gun. ....The persons, and he says persons who ask me a lot of questions, ...boy.. speak fluent English with out a trace of any accent. ...... They have certain information that it is apparent that someone gave them, which is of ...... crucial importance ....... and they feel that I know... ........I'm thirsty, they don't give me much to drink. They don't give me much to eat. I've gone days without eating. At times I can not even hold myself to walk. Several times a person has been brought in, ...I am not sure what his capacity is, he did not examine me as a medical doctor, but apparently gave evaluation or...because I do not Approved For Release' 2 3 IA-RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For ReI 3/ R LIARDP96-00788R001900630001-3 understand what they are speaking, but it's only my, my sense that they were wondering how ill I was. .............He shifts again and he says ..... go northeast. ...............This is what I'm asking him, He's giving me no answer. Ah...Ah....I'm getting chills here and I have to, I'm trying to grasp something. ....... I don't want to miss this point of information, I'm, I've got freezing elements, cold. Okay. are you aware where he was before he was at this point? ......... You know what he's trying to tell me and I'm not able to grasp it, but I'm hold to stick with it for a while. He's telling me the time which should be important to you, but I don't from where. You know how many minutes it took, you know the way he visualizes it, where, you know, where he is. ......... Okay. SG1I I SG1I must go back ask you questions about the kilometers. Are you with me? How long would it take through a city and I'll tell you why after, because to travel 12 kilometers,....... What did you say about 25 minutes? ...........About 25 minutes from where ever the point is, but it's still just on the outskirts of Lebanon, but I'm trying to find what he's trying to tell me, where was he, you know, was he picked up from his home or ........ yeah ............. Okay. I'm Approved For ReI RE1iDP96OO788ROOl 900630001-3 Approved For Rele /R O . LIDP96-OO788ROOl 900630001-3 going to answer, not the question you just asked, but how long he feels it took, okay. And it's apparent that it didn't take him more than 25 minutes. At least to his time right now and I don't know what that means. He's trying to give me his position where he is now. Do you follow that? That's right in time so that you would, but I want to find out from where now he comes. ................I don't know what you know but what he tells me you seem to apparently say several, but to me it isn't, two place twice, he was moved twice. ...... Okay ..... okay ..... Can you ask two a question that will help me. The two that returned, were they in the middle of the city of Beirut? Or do you know? Yeah, Yeah, well whatever way we want to look at it, yeah. And what did I tell you he told me to go what ...go north, what was it that I told you, do you remember? You can,.. All right. The other people were where? I'm trying to grasp something from him and I need some feedback. Where were the two redeemed from, where were they in the city? A little bit to the south of Beirut. See this is an area that I don't know. I'm trying to find out why he says north. I'm going to take a break here, I want to go back to the map, do you mind? And then I will come back. There's something that bothers me. Okay. Would you come in and detach me, please? Okay. I want to make some observations with you. The area and the construction that comes to my mind, you know, as I'm looking, now this is from, this is clairvoyant now at this point as we're talking, it's not where I'm, you know. Approved For Rele R EATDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 SG1I Approved For Relea CREIP96-00788R001900630001-3 What came in could sound like voice means something when you repeat to me. How would I put it, on one side or a corner of where he is, but there's like a board, boards or fence or something but it's like it's boarded, it's not barb wire fence. This is clairvoyant now, I'm not there I'm just giving you some clairvoyant information. Ah..and there's a flattening area. Now let me explain. Roads, when you said, I said cobblestone, residential and apparently this residential place and then I see something where construction is going, let's put it this way, and there's like boards, at least, apparently there would be danger for someone to fall or it has been boarded in. Is that in this building that he's in? No, this is outside this building now. Someplace else? No, no. I'm picking up some clairvoyant scene from outside the building where he is so it will give us a description of where-- Approved For Rele E&R : A DP96 -00788R001900630001-3 31 Approved For ReleS 4J4 EcRDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 RG/ o The general area. ---the general area, okay? ....... Again, psychic impression, I don't know what you people have done or how or who's looking for him or whatever this is, I can tell this much, would I put it, ...... I don't know who you have there an,d who would be in charge and I don't need to know. It's just that I'm saying is that somebody has gone by where he is, does that make sense? That's all I'm going to say. #66: I wouldn't know whether they have or not, but it could be checked on. Let me see if we can't clarify that perception. And there had been a random passing by this area or is this an area that has been officially looked into in some way? I, it's a random, random meaning not thinking that he could be in this area. I don't know whether they have looked in the area, you know, but I see at least one person which, you know, I see this one person going by there and this person has something to do in finding him or something that related to that. #66: But simply discounted it. Approved For Reo '"1( 3 fRClC-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 32 Approved For Rel 3/ R lTRDP96-00788R001900630001-3 Discounted, yes. All right. That's a good piece of (mumble) And they ultimately discounted it psychically, I feel, because it was a lower area, living area. Lower class? Lower class. They were not rich people and they were not middle class people, they were lower than that. I wouldn't say, I can't say they're poor either, that's not what I'm saying. Apparently the house is not, you know, what I can see of it, the walls, the rooms or whatever it is, it looks like somebody could rent that and you know, so that's another psychic impression of what I'm seeing. So it might give you some idea of the area. Any other questions you want? Is the neighborhood itself noted for anything? Ask me that when I'm under again. What I'm going to do, I'm going to continue to (mumble) as you said, try to get as much information out of him. Approved For Rele~ I P96-00788R001900630001-3 C. I Approved For Rel`r O p IA-RDP96-00788ROO1900630001-3 Okay. And then we will, we know the condition of his health, we know the other questions that you asked. #66: Perhaps you can be a comfort to him, knowing that he is in a dire state and he's rather desperate. Try being a comfort to him, warm up to him and then go deeper, beyond. Act as an agent yourself in relaxing him. Okay. Okay. Whenever you're ready, I will be. ... ................I'm back where he is, I'm back with him now. ................. He is sitting on the floor. ........ I'm sitting next to him. ..... I have a sense that he is aware that I am with him. I've asked him to relax. ............. Deep in his consciousness he has a great concern...that he will be moved again and he feels if this is done, it will be much harder ...ah.... his concern is that when he moves, not if , when he moves again, he will not be able to survive the ordeal. I've gone through so much now. .............. The compass direction (end of tape) that I have given you that I'm still northwest, west, northwest, northeast,.... directions that I've given you, as far as I can determine, you Approved For Releas %&EGRET96-00788ROO1 900630001-3 34 Approved For Rele nko R: DP96-00788R001900630001-3 are in the right direction. ........... At this point , I heard the word, not from him, but I don't know from where, the word is EL KAFLA and I don't know how to spell it. EL KAFLA, if I were to spell it, I would say KAFLA, but I'm not sure. ...... My perception of this is all I can give you. I'm trying very hard, since I have not seen daylight, which I really don't know what it's like. I hear a lot of sounds. ..... It's very..rare...the voices I hear, I do not understand. ...... There is now a disturbance or interruption by one of the guards. What I'm getting from the subconscious of the guard is the same which I'm getting from William Buckley, apparently they are waiting, to move him again or to release him. He's unconscious from the guard. They're anticipating some kind of orders with an immediacy, that means very near or close by. They waiting for some immediacy, something immediate to be some orders very shortly or whether they are going to stay, there or not. It is apparent to me, now AT is speaking, okay, from what I can gather, that if they are to move him, it will have to be within from today here, from Good Friday, before Sunday. And the reason behind this is the season of Christianity that they are in and it would be less observed than on a regular time or a regular day. Now, I say A roved For Release `09T1P96-007888001900630001-3 pp 35 but I SG1I Approved For Releas 06/ RF-R P96-00788ROO1900630001-3 seem to be picking up, that also in the consciousness of where I am. It doesn't make sense to me, but I'm just giving you what it goes, so. It's an Arabic word that I'm trying to, that I got from the guard, that is not clear and I'm trying to have him repeat it to me or at least think about it so that I can pick it up. ...................The reason I'm silent and I go back is that the guard is thinking about something and I'm trying to...get into that consciousness and how do I say this, penetrate it, get into it and I'm getting syllables but they're not definitive enough so, just hold on and I'll keep going on here. .................. One of the words, it's apparent something is going to be taking place or already has,I I The word, one of the words is MUSHALAH and if I remember my Arabic well, it means know, I hope it's done. So something has to be done here, but, I'm trying to get the rest of the words, what is to be done, and- that's where the hesitation is. ..........It is apparent to me from his subconscious, that they're waiting at this time, I don't know what time or what day this is, for some kind of change with William Buckley. That is what I'm picking up from the guard. This change means that decision has to be made whether he remains where he is or they are to take him to another place. The Approved For Releas REc96-OO788ROOI 900630001-3 36 Approved For Relea e 0 /101:.CIA-RDP96-007888001900630001-3 decision will be made if they have been able to received all he had, information they can. And how close he is to have, that he will be alive or not alive. And it is apparent to me from the subconscious of the guard, is that they can not allow him to die. That if they did and that is the whole thing about this, that they, in fact the information sent back to wherever the headquarters is, "Look, we can't hold on to this guy too long, if this goes on he will .die. And if he does it means we are going to have problems." William Buckley senses this also. I have a sense that you have a question, you want to ask it? Are you asking me if there is an immediate headquarters within the elements of Lebanon or are you asking from the head, head, headquarters? ........And it's within Lebanon, within the city of Beirut? ..... It is in Beirut ..... It is in Beirut, the people are distinguished people, they are not, at least the one I'm relating to right now, although they are, let me put it this way. There is someone dressed in normal civilian clothes which is directing this whole operation, even though there are soldiers, or what appears to me as soldiers, within the vicinity. Any other questions you would like, ......No, in and around where this other person is, also. ....... This person, yes this man would be that Approved For Release'209' %0 '1 - 96-007888001900630001-3 SG1I Approved For Relea~ .n /9 ,CP96-00788R001900630001-3 person. I also have an insight from this man, that some messages are going to be sent to you people, very shortly in regards to his release and I just hope to God it's not his death. Because the conversation that I'm getting here is in regards to the release. Um, um ............. He speaks Arabic and French and they speak other languages. He has been within Lebanon for a long time. He is, what appears to me,1 about 50 years old or maybe a little less, but not older. I can't imagine him be older. But age sometimes is very deceiving to me. Ah ...... I'm going to give you the message that comes to me, okay, the way it's read. Contacts will SG1I be made soon, contacts will be made soon. It is apparent to me, at this time, that no one from this end can make the contact, the contact will be made from the other end. And for the reason, of the security of this person, who no one would ever in the world suspect, that he is helping, no, that he is betraying Lebanon. So the person is of a high official. Go ahead ask your question,I I ..... SG1I ...................I'm getting cold chills here and I want to know what that means, so be, hold on a second, let me see what comes in. ....... I'm having cold chills, I'm going to have to ask you a question. I'm back to normal, not in the out of Approved For Relea / 9/1 EFP9600788R001 900630001-3 38 If" Approved For leate~'~jGPN aI-DP96-00788ROO1900630001-3 state here. I am at a loss, because I don't know what they would bargain for. First of all, it's not money, two, I don't see, at least I'm being logical here, I don't see where we have information that this person needs, but I'm just sorting this out to you now and I don't need any response on it. The chills are here and the information apparently is going to be decided of whether, they're afraid this person is going to die or not. And apparently a message would be sent where to be found or that in some way would be found or would be led to where the person is without involvement of anything. Is that, that's what the impression I'm getting from that person, now. Do you understand that? ........... The answer is yes. And there's a cold chill here meaning, yes. But this man, you can trust him, boy, the cold chills again, what is it, come out. ..... I'm going SG1I to say something that will be very helpful for you. This person is known to our American Intelligence or government or so forth as a politician or a person in a special place in the Lebanese Government. .....Before you ask that question, I have to, there are chills here and ..... again, a chill. This person will probably show himself as, if it is a visible sign, all right, cause there are two things involved in the mind of the person, and I'm not trying to Approved For Release" / 9/ R P96-00788 R001900630001-3 39 Approved For Rele` Q/0 E'DP96-00788R001 900630001-3 confuse you, but please ask the question. On one side they're trying to say to me, "All right, we'll just leave him there and we'll tell them where, send the information." okay. Or this person that I'm seeing, although is related to this whole kidnapping, which no one knows, will say, "Well, I can help you or I will go as an in between to release your person". Do you follow the two concepts that I'm getting? ....... I'm not able to comprehend your question, would you repeat it again please? The answer is yes. Well, of his position in this whole aspect of Lebanon. It doesn't make sense to me but that's what I'm giving you. ......... All right, it's done. He won't answer that one to me. Let me try to see if I can get into his subconscious. ...................Boy, he's a hard nut to crack, he's so strong. Would you record the word, NHAMAMAH, N, phonetically, NHAMA, MAH, NUSHMY. I may pronounce it wrong. It's true that I know Arabic, but SG1I I've been away from it so long, for so many years, but at least I'm familiar with the sound of the language, so I'll have to leave it as such for you. NHAMAMAH may have something to relate, with the SG1I person, you know, this person that I'm in contact with. I just want to make that known. Yes, yeah, but I, psychically I have a feeling it has to do with Approved For Relea+3 9 ETDP96-00788RO01 900630001-3 Approved For Release 20031 C 6 0788R001900630001-3 him. ..... No, go ahead and then if I need to come back, I will. ......... To me the answer is yes. At this point, as I stand now, the answer is yes. As I stand in the future, the answer is yes. Do you understand what I mean? I only dread one thing, okay, I only dread the sanity that will have left for William Buckley. Yeah. He was aware of that when I was sitting there with him and now I'm going to, I'm going to do something that I do,I II'm going to SG1I send energy, not just to William Buckley, but I'm going to send energy for the release of Mr. Buckley and to be found, in whatever shape we can find him in the best of health we can with what we know. That has worked very, very well with murder cases and so forth, so every time I'm at a stop, I do this. I do this now, the energy is sent that Mr. Buckley be found and be found very shortly, meaning as soon as possible. I just want to reinstate that I do not see Mr. Buckley in the city of Beirut, but in the outskirt. The place is not a high class place. It is apparent to me that they chose that place as to where the others were released as to deviate or to misdirected in case they thought that this was the area, that you know, others would be. Why they've done this, I'm not sure. If you're asking me whether Mr. Buckley again to repeat will he be found, the Approved For Release-20031,0/ -FIDP96-00788R001900630001-3 41 Approved For Release 2003/09110': CRAIRDPp6-00788 ROO1900630001-3 answer is yes. Will he be found alive, the answer is yes. I just want to say what Mr. Buckley is saying to me, to get to the construction. The noise that he hears is like construction noise. And one other thing that a plane from time to time would go over that area and implies that that is important, that he hears. He does not hear planes all day long. But what he says sounds like a plane, I have to say that, I'm sorry, I don't want to misinterpret what he is saying. He is also saying that he has been sending directions, but I also feel from my own presence to him, there's a lot of flaps of things within his own mind and I'll leave it as such. Anything else that I can do, Okay. Yeah. That light is pretty sudden isn't it? No, that's okay, something... what did I say, cause the word, okay. There's something, this is Friday, would it be Saturday there now or would it be Friday? #66: I don't know which way the calendar goes for them. Their Friday, being Muslim, their Friday's their holiday, I believe. There's a slight note that I remember about moving. Approved For Reledi / RE T P96-00788R001900630001-3 42 Approved For Release 2O03"/09/1 #A-F DP96-00788 R001900630001-3 What did I say in regards to moving him? #66: You said that there was some consideration about whether they would move him, that's the guard was thinking moving him. But when we went to the man with civilian clothes, he was talking about making a decision in two ways, whether or not the information would just come out that go to this place and find Buckley, or he was going to volunteer to work as intermediary, but he is actually is the person in charge. That's not it, about timing. #66: You said movement concerned maybe having to do with his illness. Say again, Bill. Something about timing. Timing is between. now and Sunday. We've got to watch that closely and I'm getting the #66: Okay. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 I E'96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Release'20 Apparently, it's a time, something to do with religion, something to do with year. At least-- #66: You said something about Christian religious holidays or moving during the Christian religious holidays or something. #66; Ah... Between Good Friday and Sunday. Yeah , let me , can we be in contact , in some SG1I way, I know it's very tricky, over phones and things like this. Because a lot of that information may come back to me or you may have-- Further questions. ---Further questions. We can make those arrangements. There is something that I have not fully grasp, and that has happened in the experiments with the police, also to know I can make a second comeback on that. It's too bad I have to leave tomorrow morning. Let's Approved For Release 2003/09/1 d :` OA- DP96-00788ROO1900630001-3 Approved For ReIease 20 3/ I RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 talk about it as we go here. You see, there's always information that comes when as I'm driving and things like this, but I don't want to jeopardize the security. #66: I understand, all you have to do is give us a call and we can get on an airplane or do one of many things. Yeah. Oh, you can give me a call also, if you have certain interest and just say when do you think you could be free, you know and nothing, I'll understand or some kind of code. Okay. I have to tell you something, I'm still leery SG1I whether my phone has been tapped or not and for those reasons I have not been talking with and so SG1I forth. The reason behind this is that I have followed and really approached by quite a few number of people which are not American people. #66: Okay, we can make arrangements and you can always go to a pay phone and we can make arrangements, communication arrangements, that's not a problem. Approved For Release 2003/09110 :CIADP96-00788 R001900630001-3 And I've told that to and then I told that to SG1I some other people, not in the meeting yesterday, but to some, to General. It is a concern. #66: Well, because you are so visible in the news media and have worked openly with the police, I would imagine that you would be very visible. I want also to make another statement that I made to the General and I want you to take it as it is. I'm afraid that other countries and I want you to be careful with the psychics you are involved with, because of other countries approaching psychics. Um, um. For information. On the psychic plane or-- Or on any plane, whether they are working and (mumble) (mumble) things like this. #66: Um, um. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Release 2003/09/10~~IA-R P96-00788 R001900630001-3 When I told that to the General, he understood, but I also hear that the General is leaving. That's correct. And I'm leaving that information with you, in case he did not tell you since you're pretty much here involved with this. I'm not trying to throw suspicion, but I want you to be careful. Because I have strong psychic evidence that this is happening. You may also know something about it, but I just warned for the record. Okay, good. I want to go to the bathroom. ?Wlken I work I have to rush to bathrooms. Okay. Let me get my glass case over there, yeah. BACK TO TAPE I The guttural feeling of the voice I heard and that I'm going to have to straighten out what that means. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 ClIJ -F DP96-00788 R001900630001-3 47 Approved For RelIq: I -RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 #66: Okay. When I said what foreign language is it you hear, the question is whether it was guttural or romance, asian. Because Lebanese is very soft, so I'm going to have to see who these are, since guttural means something quite strange. #66: Okay. I'd like to review just one more time. Where is he, which means to us, describe his location, how is he, means to us, describe his physical and psychological condition. And who are his captors and most specifically, not necessarily the soldier type that's standing next to him, we don't need to know his name, but who is the responsible individual that we might be able to negotiate with. Okay. When that has come in that says that I see black, so something dark, so the people are not, I want put a chinese or part of face. That there's a dark, by dark I'm not sure if it's black, but the skin is dark. (mumble) so that I can also give, would you, I don't remember much of this. When I'm in there, put me back into the scene, can you do that, you remember enough about that. Approved For Release"2 / a 0 Approved For Release W91'11 J~IALDP96-00788ROO`l 900630001-3 So that I can, I make a (mumble) by putting me back into the scene. I'll get you started in here. All right. You want to turn your tape off. You all wrapped up here. mumbles, mumbles, bang, mumbles. We can go back outside and look at the map. I said to go north what again? Northeast. How would that fit in here now, if we were looking-- #66: The point is is that north is at the top of the page, but when you say go northeast, we don't whether or not he's telling us to go northeast from Beirut or if you go from where I am, northeast you'll find Beirut. The data bit is too small to make any sense out of it right now. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 :4C;IA-RDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 Approved For Releas'"2'/ 9/~ RP96-00788R001900630001-3 Okay, so that's what I have to, okay. And he was captured somewhere's in here. Right in this neighborhood. This is all'Beirut still and here too. That's correct. And as any city sprawls over time. .....Now, I want to tell you something at this point that kind of validates some of the things you said that I didn't tell you before. The other people that were recovered were blind folded the entire time. It may be that he is blind folded the vast majority of the time that he is there, which is going to make him very disoriented, but make him only able to hear as you recorded. He only says he can report things that he hears. But it is going to make him very disoriented. Well, see, I see him even worse than this. He's in bad shape. And I, see and it's trying to get what he's trying to tell me and part of it is by telepathy. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 50 Approved For Releas6 200 9k1 o : G A-RDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 #66: Yes, I understand. He's able to think, but this northeast baffles me because where I'm standing-- #66: Okay, I'd like to talk about two approaches that when you refocusing on it-- Okay. One is go beyond what we define telepathy, go down into his subconscious. This is what I'm doing by telepathy, this is what I'm doing, that's where most of the information is coming from. #66: He may know more down inside him than he is consciously aware that he knows. Okay, oh I see what you're saying, okay. So, go down inside him, beyond his present environment, beyond what he consciously thinks he knows about-the place and then the other approach is can you by associating with him and in the area, can Approved For Release 2003fl01: 51 R, E6- 00788ROO1900630001-3 Approved For Release /t0'. tm-kDP96-00788RO01 you come to know one of the guard personnel? Surely the guards know exactly where they are in the neighborhood. So can we get to the point and then transfer over to the guard? Yeah, we can do that, I did it only couple other times. They were successful. I'll just say they were successful enough, the information to deem, there was enough information received so that they could know where. Okay, this is what I'm saying. Our case information told them more the locale is. I must have come up and I want to ask you again. What language did I say they were speaking? Arabic. A dark skinned people that speak arabic. No, it means nothing to me. I mean, psychically at this point, it means nothing to me. #BR: You say there is one person there who is speaking a guttural language. Approved For Release 2003/09/T0 ClA-KDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 52 Approved For Release 2003/09/10 CIA-RDP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Yeah. He's trying to tell me something. May I make just an observation? Certainly. I have a feeling and I don't want to know a yes or no, I'm just going to give, please. Just accept as is now and I'm going to (mumble) until, you know, if it comes out. I feel that the person has certain information in which somebody else gave these people information and they feel this person has the information, and he's the one that can give them. That's all I will say. That's an insight that I have. #66: It's important. I will tell you something that is not important to locate him, but may put you onto the problem more. When he was taken, he had a suitcase or a briefcase with -some stuff in it that he shouldn't have had with him. So he was caught with some material in his hands. Now, his captors may be saying to him, tell us more about this, what do you know about this. It was some sensitive material that he really shouldn't have been carrying with him, so he kind of probably feels a little bit threatened by this material that he had, that's revealing in some way. Approved For Release 20309 : C A"RDP96-007888001900630001-3 53 R-&Pf6-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For Release 25 ) E/ G Okay, because I couldn't make sense, you know, I can see where part of my right side and left side brain function, I thought maybe it was some else who had the material and they questioned him about, you know, all I'm saying is like an American giving the information, that they have this and so for he is trapped into this whole thing. #66: Well, I think that he may have endangered himself by being caught with this material. You know, he was, he is a statesman and was on his way to the embassy to work and had material in his possession that would not be good to be caught by the enemy with. So this may be the dilemma you're picking up on. Yeah, because I get cold chills from all of that. Okay. I tell you that, it clears up something here and really doesn't really pertain to what our question is right now. No, I realize that but was something that was annoying to me, while going through this whole thing, okay. I was trying to figure out what he was trying to tell me. You know, did someone squeal on him and, Approved For Releas P96-00788RO01900630001-3 E^RE-R 54 Approved For Rele6 OU O l t : EAFDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 that's how he got caught and this is what, the dilemma is still there, you see the dilemma is still there. He trying to tell me something and he's trying to tell me something, apparently that I must come back here, here meaning, whatever here means, I don't know whether physically here, but here and this thing that there's leak or something, I'm not sure exactly what he's trying to say. And again he might be disoriented too. He might be disoriented too, so you know, you would know more of that so you'll have to make the evaluation on the material that's coming through. #66: Okay, let's try to go beyond his conscious and his dilemma right now, down to an area where he may know much more about his situation than he knows at a conscious level and then if it's possible let's get to a guard and remember that he may be blind folded. There is reason to believe that he is blind folded. So you like the outskirts of Lebanon (Beirut) and he's been moved twice. Would you take the tape recorder off the paper? He was caught here. Approved For Releasq'LIW 6 RIAE96-00788R001 900630001-3 55 Approved For Release 2 F., "C 00788R001900630001-3 That's correct. 120. I don't know if he can orient with that-- No, I'm just going to give you numbers, right. The number I gave you was 125? 1 2, let's look. here. I'm trying to orient this closely. These here numbers used for the scale (mumble) Yeah, but I don't know what that means and how it relates but I believe it does someway. And here's 2 5. Um, um. The number 25? 25. What does that mean over here. Approved For Relea -P96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Rel 3/ EIRDP96-00788R001900630001-3 #66: Well we can look up, now remember you said maybe it wasn' t 125 , but we could look up down here and we have a 125 and what's it say? Is that GH, GADOTA. .... It says embassy of France. of France, I'm sorry, of France. #66: 3053. What does 1, we have 1 means ALBONK on the center bank. Center bank. Where would the center bank be? 3053. He's trying to tell me something in the maps. Think so? I'm almost sure. Approved For Rele 3 0/ TA4DP96-007888001900630001-3 Approved For Release 9'1 RE D96-00788R001900630001-3 Here's 30, where's 53? 53 is right here. So that's close to where he was staying? 53, I think he was taken right here. Yeah, well that's a bank here. The 125, French Embassy is interesting, a lot of the, I was waiting for you to say he's speaking french to me, because an awful lot of the people have gotten---(end of tape side) Railroad (mumble) Can I see what that would 25. Okay, that would be 3325. 3325? (mumble) the railroad tracks. You're saying a railroad, a warehouse. You think the number 25 is of importance? is of importance. Put a line over there, is something. Approved For Release f0 G RJ96-00788R001 900630001-3 #66: That he said he's near a railroad station, he can hear, not hear, but he's near a railroad station. I'm just going to deal with that. I want to take every number with every combination here, We SG1 I have the 1 and we took the 2, is slaughterhouse, the number is 3454. #66: Number,2 record. Obviously that's still the outskirts. That's the dock area, I believe. That's the dock area. Could he be mistaken that he feels that he's on the #66: Well, again he disoriented and probably blind folded. But there are other reports that he is in a, the word used in the previous report was suburb. Suburb, yeah that would be okay. I just want to put all that information, because the way I'm getting it Approved For Relea 13EIDR9 -TP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For Relea /TO' iDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 is certainly making, the 1, we have the 12, we have the 5, look at the 5. The singular 5? That's a 3446. 46, 34, here. The number 5. What is 5? Water, tower, water tower. Maybe it's a water treatment plant. Just because this doesn't mean (mumble), it doesn't mean it to some other analyst along the way and it tells me 125-- Yeah, I just want to try and see what it means. I understand, you're trying to figure it out yourself. I'm not trying to figure out, I trying to find out, what in the world that means, it must mean something to him or something that he heard, something that, he is incoherent that's for sure, so I have to you know-- Approved For Relea I 1 P96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Rel6ase @ 0/ . I -RDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 #66: Have you tried saying back to him, I hear you telling He seems to, he keeps repeating it, he kept repeating to me 125. Very insistent. Insistent. As if it were a (mumble) as. if he was angry, as if he knew my presence was there and that I wasn't, didn't feel that I was taken that seriously or just his initiative to give 125 and to the aspect. Where is 3051? I'm doing something-- Right here. Could you tell me, where in Lebanon, that the SG1I #66: It was in the southern part of Beirut in a residential house, in southern Beirut, that's the only thing I know, southern Beirut, in a residence, in southern Beirut. Now, this man, William Buckley, was taken after the Approved For Releas- FEIP96.OO788ROOI Approved For Release jj!L 9 00630001-3 Okay, I just want to make sure, because I don't want to mistake my-- #66: No, over several months, 6, 8 months they took several people. William Buckley was 'taken on 16th of March. #66: Yes. Yes, the latest one. As though they were picking them up at random or something. Yeah, it had to be. It's my contention, I don't know who the other men are, but. still (mumble) into my psychic experience, psychic mind, there was some kind of a leak. And I just want to make that for record, okay. Okay. Would you give me 3248 which is 15? Right here. Approved For Release':2 CF) /O971 RP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Approved For Relea 2p03 1ELCIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900630001-3 So that the reverse does not mean anything, it doesn't go into-- It doesn't match you? Doesn't match me with what the other-- They don't feel right. No, they don't feel right to me. Okay. I just want, usually, because you said he was disoriented and I wanted to feel my way around. 21, a longer, 21 that's it. Apparently I'll stay with that. #66: You can tell him you looked at a map and that didn't make-any sense to you, maybe he'll have some more information. Okay. He's certainly doing his best to give the information, that's for sure. Approved For Relea? fDP96-00788R001 900630001-3 Approved For Releaser 0'1' : R P96-00788ROO1900630001-3 #66: He may be limited. My suggestion is to go beyond his conscious and then perhaps the guards. Yeah. From the wounds that you, that will only help me again to get the information in contact. From the people that were found and spoke, the message spoken by the guards and so forth, did they speak about someone with a guttural language or something? #66: No, they did not mention anything about that. They said they were blind folded the, whole time and the only person they remember seeing is the other guy, the other guy that was retrieved. And how about the language, did they realize what language they were speaking? #66: In the reports that I read, there was no comment made one way or the other about languages. There were no comments made about that. It's just that I have to get these loose ends together. Approved For Release 2-063/Q9/1(7i RIP96-00788 R001900630001-3 Approved For Release` GyRETP96-00788RO01900630001-3 You said, you felt that the guttural language was I don't know, you'll have to remember, you have to You said you thought that there was russian and the person that was speaking it was in civilian but would be in uniform if he were in his home country. I will leave it stand as it is. All right, let me go There is highway which (mumble) going to this outskirt, villa, or city or town. Okay. Okay. And the place is almost at the end of this highway, almost at the end, I can't see it further whether it's destroyed or what, but it is along the highway and you can go off the highway or what appeared to be a highway or once was a highway, whatever it is, and it does go to this place. #66: Okay, I understand. Approved For Release WMW RErP96-OO788ROOl 900630001-3 Approved For Rele DP96-00788RO01900630001-3 ,in You understand what that means? Yes. So, it does alleviate, I just said, hey, I got in another bit of information that might lead to, when I go to the bathroom all kinds of information, believe me, one of the policeman said why don't you go to the bathroom 10 times, so that's-- #66: Okay, so what you're saying is it's not in a cluster of many buildings, it is a residence area that's off down a road, off the highway. And what was the descriptive word you used? The thing here, I'm going down a highway, okay, a highway, and we're not looking into small towns going into dirt roads and this, it's a highway and then we come upon this small suburb place, this is what I'm trying to say. All right. So at least gives us, and I still want to stay up in that northern part. Approved For Release 200; 0RE10788R001 900630001-3 66 Approved For Release 0 / 0 : CIA-RDP96-007888001900630001-3 EC Northern. Yeah, like he said north something whatever. Northeast. Yeah, but I'll stay, but if you know more. Well, we have many conflicting bits of information and so we check on many angles. Needs to be verified. So I don't whether there's a highway up there or (mumble) but I know that there's a highway that leads to this place, so this is more important than the north or whatever I said, okay. All right. Because that can be, remember that had came from him and as you said, I could have gotten the wrong-- Sure, because he's disoriented. But what I got in the bathroom, that's what I got in Approved For Release 2003 /TO :'CIAP96-00788R001900630001-3 Q E. I 67 Approved For Releas 1 RI96.00788R001 900630001-3 All right. Good. I would have liked to go much deeper and much, and as more information can come as I go along and I'd like work with that. #66: Okay, I want to give you an address to write to and then my home phone number. Okay. I'm not getting paranoic about what I've told you. I don't know whether you've heard but I've been approached by different people which I realized were from, and this has been reported and so forth (mumble) and -- You want to look at that so that you're not confused. Okay. Oh boy. Okay, very good, understood. Okay. And ah, that's I'd like to talk away from my own. Can I reverse the charges? Approved For Release 20O31091O :'CA4?-?RDP96-00788 R001900630001-3 Approved For Rele IS fR /0 EADP96-00788R001 900630001-3 And it's a precaution that's been taken also from other interviews, cause I'm not sure what is happening. I've said nothing but there's still that suspicion all along. And it's amazing that I'm giving a lecture and what has happened is that a lot of these people approaching me l I which appears to be no know what I'm saying and they appear quite strange in different ways, but that would raised for question, they would say ah, are you working for the government or something to this effect, you know, my psychic, it's not just a --and I say no I do not and then give them information which is this information also work (mumble) for a career going on so to satisfy. And I knew of a person is not probing because of curiosity, there is a way-- (mumble) And then he says well how come the government is not using you, since we heard on the air, which is true that you gave information about something that happened and it was verified. I said well, no government has approached. I didn't say anything about, you know, and that pops up in different ways, other ways pictures are taken of me when I'm walking Approved For Release. REFP96-00788R001 900630001-3 Approved For ~-FeGoRf~TIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900630001-3 even (mumble), I'm coming out of a restaurant with a girl and she noticed the person :taking the pictures, says look they're taking a picture of us. I said, well, I didn't want to throw any, you know, she said no, look at that car and I go out by the car because I had to play a part and there was a polaroid camera in which a picture had been taken. #66: As a person of your notariety and is as well known as you are and as public is obviously ging to attract attention of the opposition, so that's one reason why it was an opportune moment for us to get in contact with you, because you're here on other business. So when they check into that they going to be confused about the (mumble). Another thing I'll, you know, told me, and SG1 I where he got the information, I don't know, but he's warned me, (mumbles) that my life was in danger. And coming from him he must have some sources so I'm just-- He just made that statement. He says if you're going to Europe or you're going abroad, if you're going to t"" Q r~-Or- Approved For Relea a 9DP96-00788R001900630001-3 Approved For Releas IL I / / RITP96-00788RO01900630001-3 Russia or China or any of that, he almost said, I wouldn't do it. giving you that for the record so that-- I'm just #66: Country travelers are briefed before hand what to do when asked questions. The big thing here, I'm just giving you that for your own security in the work that you're doing, just bringing you up to date to some of the things, because I would like to continue to working with you whenever you need me. Okay. I do come to Washington quite frequently, by the way, and I'll let you know (mumble) now that we have established contact. Yeah, that's a good idea. You want this tape, Yeah, it will go off by itself. Approved For Release 2003/09/10 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900630001-3 SG1 A SG1 9G1 A SG1I