TRANSCRIPT - HU-1083/8405/01

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November 4, 2016
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June 29, 1998
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April 24, 1984
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PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00788R001900640008-5.pdf439.59 KB
Approved For Release 2000/08/ - 01900640008-5 TRANSCRIPT HU-1083/8405/01 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview for 0900 hours 24 April 1984. Relax and concentrate now, relax and focus your attention solely and completely on the building in the photograph I've shown you. Focus your attention now and describe the upper floor to #01: ............. Mmmm, got's..a side staircase to the top floor. It's in a closed hall,..stop at a..large room, it's...formal meeting room. ...A... area that the staircase goes to a lower and upper door in the staircase. Mmm, I just see a single straight hall with ah...door at the end, four doors..five doors, three of them on one side and two on the other. Smaller rooms, seems to be a door in the middle of this (mumble) hall and it's open, slight wedged open. ...There's ah.. exposed, exposed lights in the ceiling in the hall, .... like parts of the ceiling are open. ........... Trying to focus on one of the rooms so I can start describing the rooms. Approved For Release 2000/08/ 8 I - 88001900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : OQ1900640008-5 #01: Got one room with ah..table top or counter top in the center of the floor,.. counters wrap around two walls, portion of the third wall. Wanting to put canister like objects on the counter tops. It's made out of metallic canister, round, flat discs shaped objects. .........Getting a strong camera input for some reason. Cameras have to do with one of these rooms. #66: Okay. Let's move to another room now. Move on through the rooms. Give me a. brief description everything that goes on. #01: ........... Another room has got ah...a lot of white in it ..... extraordinarily white room ...I see squares or cards or something mounted on the wall and there's ah...a lot of shelving mounted on the wall. There's many things stacked on the shelves made from paper,.... sealed in plastic. There's a blue square machine here, it rotates, a rotating movement from it.'s a funny kind of table in here too, I'm not, it's either a table or a desk but it's shaped very strangely, a lot of angles to it, a typewriter on it. Two other small boxes, Approved For Release 200 8ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000 " 0 88ROO1900640008-5 box like objects. ....... Now I see a formal office, not real plush or anything just very formal, desk, chairs, easy chairs, light green walls, a pale green, pictures on bookcases. Having trouble finding a window in this office, ah, suspect it's an office without windows. ..... Keep getting an overriding impression of chemicals and cameras for some reason. #66: Okay. Now, kind of explain to me, when you first started talking, you were talking about a formal meeting room and then you had a hallway and some rooms off, can you kind of summarize where we are here? #01: Yeah. We're in the upper, upper floor corner of the building. #66: And where is this formal meeting room? #01: That's ah..from where we're at, you go down hallway, hit stair, make a slight right turn, open the door, down a staircase, open door and a left turn, doorway formal meeting hall. It's like a very formal room with big table. Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA-RDP96-OO 88RO01900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/(TAI -Q,,78_JR001900640008-5 #66: You said a formal meeting hall. #01: It's like very large place with a large, long table #66: Okay. Go in there. #01: Mmmm....very ornate, not overly so, just ornate. #66: Is it occupied at the present time? #01: No, I sensed it was empty when I came in. #66: Okay. Is there anybody around this particular room, this formal meeting room? #01: ................ ......... I hear a lot of like cross information, I'm getting ah ...... doing like multi national type people. They come and go, I keep seeing--- #66: Okay. I'm interested in a time lock, right now. #01: In a minute. #66: Go ahead and finish your statement. Approved For Release 2000 Approved For Release 2000/QM C^ Y88ROO1900640008-5 #01: That's what I'm having trouble with, I keep getting groups coming and going and I'm not-- #66: Yeah, a time problem, okay. Right now, the present time, am I correct in assuming that there's nothing going on in this meeting room here? #01: This exact play in time, nothing. #66: Okay. Let's move back, scan the previous week too, an important time when there is something going on in there. The preceding week from right now. #01: .................... Have a ah ...... a group consisting of four parts. ...I have one very... powerful individual heading the meeting... and then I have three.... other people that are just participants. Each has a group of people with them. Apparently they are more than one nationality. #66: What's the raw data that makes you say that? #01: I just get a feel of the nationalistic differences. It's like ah...a picture of various border lines Approved For Release 2 88ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/0 001900640008-5 intersecting. ................. I got something right on the edge of my mind, let me work on it for a minute. #66: I'll wait. #01: ................. .....They're discussing the implementation of some plan, this informally agreed to plan. Has to do with, has to do with ah ...... has to do with bringing another country into this super unit. There seems to be a....ah.. difficulty of some kind with a transference of money or how it would be financed. ....... Impression that ah.... one of the key players in this meeting is ah.. not known to be there and not supposed to be there or something. ...At whenever I focus on this individual I keep flashing back to the smaller area upstairs. #66: Okay, let's work with describing the smaller area upstairs.. #01: This, I get a picture now of a like a smaller area in the area upstairs it's ah...been modified to Coxv Approved For Release 200 I - 6- 0788ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/QBr: PbAt D 001900640008-5 support someone living wise, ah..bed and small refrigerator, kitchenette type area. It's also a work area, like a planning area. #66: Okay. what type of planning is done here? #01: ............ I ah...first..I think this is overlay, but my first inclination is terrorism, but that's overlay, it's more precise, it's has to do with commitment of funds and movement of money and more general strategy than specific acts. #66: Okay. #01: It's a policy base, that's what it is, place of basic policy decision. #66: Okay. It is a place of basic policy decision. #01: Correct. #66: All right. If I understand the graphics here, we've moved from the corner upper floor area and then we moved towards the center of the building and we come to a formal, or a large conference type area. b8. - IP 8ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000) 7 ice. , ~~ ? r Approved For Release 20001 9" 40008-5 rr #01: Correct, very large table and chairs. #66: Okay. Moving beyond that area to the upper floor beyond that, describe. #01: I don't understand. #66: Okay, it would appear from the photograph I've shown you that in the center of the building might be where this large conference table is. And we've described kind of one wing, the forward side, do you perceive anything on the other side of the conference room area? 4/01: Oh, just a minute. ................ Ah...same mix as I get on the other side, it's like a .... well equipped work area with an efficiency type apartments attached. Seems to be like a work, rest area for some reason. Keep getting it over... (mumble) picking at the back of my mind, it's like ah.. there's far more to this building, there's ah..a need or a reason or existence of photo support facility, many printing type equipment. Ah... see specialized arms room, see library or file room with files,...... very much like a very specialized operations support place. Approved For Release 2000 - - 8R001900640008-5 8 LIJ Approved For Release 2000/08/0 001900640008-5 #66: This is the building in general? #01: Yes. But predominantly functioning as a place of policy decision making, planning, multi national. People who aren't suppose to be seen. Predominant focus, financial, money, transference of funds and all those things that funds support. #66: Okay. Ask yourself the question, ask of yourself the question, what does this money buy? 401: ................. Buys ah..people, political people, but not in a sense that they are involved, directly involved takes bit of sense that they're motivations are political. ........ Mmmm, it's hard to...I'm trying to decipher this and I'm keep getting a raw impression of ..... ah..we want this done, here's some money and they do what we want because we get, they allow us (mumble) as well and it's all politically motivated. ....There's a feedback as well, I'm trying to decipher that. Approved For Release 2000/0 LCIA-PARM ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/09. P 01900640008-5 #01 ......... Has to do with organization, there's the buying of the people, solidifies an organization or a cohesed develop a cohesiveness or it, it it's like the building in the network from existing pieces. Brings together different diverse, political enemies, but establishes a power base of control, in that respect. ...... I just see money going out and information and people coming in, I don't, it's very difficult to translate it. #66: Okay. I can understand that we're not down at the working level where we have a lot of raw data to deal with in this particular situation. Try asking yourself, this network that is formed by the issuance of money and getting people to come on board and so forth and so on, what is the overall goal of this? #01: .................... Made a lot of levels of goals, a major goal being, upper level goal being, destabilization of third world type countries which would cause a dependency to come about. Lower level goal being minerals, gas, oil and minerals, minerals predominantly. #66: So you say they're focus here seems to be economic? Approved For Release 2 1 - 888001900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/0 AkMZ88R001900640008-5 #01: Absolutely. Economic interdependencies, (mumble) destabilization. Doesn't seem to make any sense. One goal is to destabilize so that they have the dependency established economically, but I don't see a intent to carry out supporting that dependency. So I don't understand that. #66: Okay. The last couple of minutes, I want you to scan the area again from the small rooms and the large conference room or meeting room so that you may sketch it for me. #01: ................................ Okay. #66: Okay. Approved For Release 200 88ROO1900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/0 - 6-00788 R001900640008-5 #01: Okay. There's a top view of the building. It's divided into four areas. The view side of the building which is that depicted in the picture and in () is essentially constructed of three separate areas, one is an area of mixed living, technical support functions type place. It's like permanent people that are there and they're working with all these different little technical things that go on, you know, with the photography and the printing and all that kind of stuff. And then in the middle is a large room which is a very ornate conference meeting area. It's like a very large table with chairs and whatnot all around it, but it's very ornate for some reason, and you know, decorative type room. That's where people meet that have only to do with function of top two floors. The next area over is predominantly a living or efficiency type area with different apartments and whatnot. And that's for people from out of town, multi national people are not known to be there, people that are participating in certain arenas or areas of conference. The forward side of the building opposite the view side, that I just described, is a general area, office support type place and also I got a gut feeling that there are some more of these same living type efficiency areas there, but not at many as on both wings. The top view is an example of the top two floors. Then there is a side view that shows the top two floors with the large room, larger room and I've broken down, under that there's three additional floors that are general office areas. And I have feel, just gut feel, that the top floors are clandestine function and the bottom three are some form of cover organization or some form cover function that, you know, is going on all the time. That's essentially it. #66: Okay. When I asked you about kind of what goes on in general here, you said they talked about, they pay money to other people and places in order to gain their support in some way? #01: No, it's almost like they pay other people, they pay other people that are driven politically, motivated politically some reason or another. They don't really care about what their politics are, what these other people's politics are. Their Approved For Release 200 _ 8001900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/08/OU'! C IAO 01900640008-5 primary goal is to pay these people and use them to disrupt or, destabilize economics as one given, politics is another area, just general act of destabilization, which causes then a dependency of both the destabilizers as well as the destabilized upon some other country or some other organization. The problem that I have with this is that I don't see any feedback coming to these people. These people could care less whether there's a dependency formulated, well, that's not true, they want to create the dependency, but I don't see them interacting in that dependency afterwards. And I don't understand what that means. #66: Okay. #01: You know, it's like they're creating a lack of stability and a dependency, and that's their goal and that's their desire, but then they don't do anything with it afterwards. They're doing it just for the sake of doing it. #66: Okay. #01: And I don't understand that. I don't get a thread there for what goes on afterwards or why they do it. #66: Okay. Now do you feel that that is what the meetings are about or has to do with the total building, can you relate that in any way? #01: No, that's what the meetings are about. The total building is, I get a, well quite frankly I didn't spend a lot of time on the bottom three floors. #66: Okay. But you said something the, it was a technical support area? #01: Oh yeah, and absolutely, these top two floors are supporting all this in a technical way, you know, they're supporting it with regard to, I'm not sure. I just get a lot of little rooms doing a lot of little functions, you know, like there's really some superb equipment in here for photography, photographic chemicals, I get other chemical areas, I get small printing and copying, or duplicating area, 1 get, you know, all this just whole room after room of junk, you know. I see piles of radios in one room, I see a specialized arms room, I see, just all this on and on and on. Approved For Release 2000 8R001900640008-5 Approved For Release 2000/0 - 8R001900640008-5 #66: You generalized the top two floors as being a technical support area for some function? #01: Yes, for some clandestine activity that has to do with destabilization, political and economics. #66: Oh, so you're saying then the technical support, supports whatever is discussed in the big room? #01: That's correct. #66: Okay. #01: And the big room is used for that discussion, is used for the collection of the information that has to do with the decisions that are done, I don't know, just people meeting there, what can I say? #66: Okay, I have no further questions. #01: I don't have anymore answers. Approved For Release 2000/08 : A- - O788ROO1900640008-5 3 Approved I Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-007888001900640008-5 OWN a S S r 2 LL] ILL! 0 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-007888001900640 0 -5J