Document Type: 
Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 
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Original Classification: 
Document Page Count: 
Document Creation Date: 
November 4, 2016
Document Release Date: 
April 25, 2000
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Case Number: 
Publication Date: 
August 28, 1995
Content Type: 
PDF icon CIA-RDP96-00791R000200310001-2.pdf199.69 KB
SG11 Approved For Releas u~ ~~37 SG1 I S~G1 I Internet: mat DOGKMASTER.NGSC.MIL -'~~= ~~ ~' To: Date: August 28, 1995 SubJect: User interview Pages: 3 Fax No.: 527-6139 SG11 SG11 as I noted on the phone, I was unable to contact this AM as he has retired from the Customs Service and the do not know his location or phone number. The MFR I prepared after speaking with last week is presented below. Dave SG 1 I MEMO FOR THE RECORD 25 August 1995 SG11 SG11 SG11 Subject: Telephone conversation with called about 0930 and noted that I wished to speak to him about a program that he was involved in as a user when Jack Vorona was the principal sponsor. After we "fenced" around abit to identifiy the program of interest, he recalled the program and his involvement with it, noting that he had not spoken to Jack in many years. Mr. was responsible fior Coast Guard intelligence at a west coast location and recalled that he utilized the paranormal RV services several years ago, he thought 3 or 4. The function of his organization was to intercept merchant ships and search those that were believed to be transporting drugs or ofiher illegal materials. He used the RV's both at his location in conjunction with his people and also tasked them for inputs at the Program Office location. He indicated that the RV's he used were government employees (vice a contractor). SG1 I In the initial portions of our conversation, I asked if he had ever used the RV Inputs as a basis to task other resources and/or had he ever confirmed RV information based upon other data after the fact. His initial comments were enthusiastic and positive, e.g. , "yes they had taken action based upon the RV inputs". For example his crew would board incoming merchant ships and look for materials of types and locations defined by the RV's. However, when asked if they ever had any success, he noted that this was open to personal interpretation; but probably not. He quoted one instance where the RV's indicated a specific white powder in a specific ship, and when they boarded the ship they found that it was full of exotic animals and same type of powder, but not a drug. He thought his group had reported their evaluations of the RV Inputs back to the program office and that their comments should be in the Program Office files. Please cal! Immediately 1t there are prof~lems with this transmission Page y Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2 He noted that their "success" with the RV's was much better when they were at his location than when they were tasked at their home office, noting further that the RV's then had a better idea of what his people were looking for and how they operated. He stated his belief that there is really "something valid" about the phenomenon but that It needs more research so it is better understood and so the user can be given more assurance about what to expect. He noted that he didn't think we really know how to use the phenomenon to the advantage of organizations such as his. At about this point he seemed to hesitate and his enthusiasm for the activity seemed to wane somewhat. I asked him if he thought the utility was sufficiently positive that, as a government user, he would be willing to for pay the RV services from a private contractor. He stated that "the probability of success is very low, but I think there is something there, if only we had a better understanding of the phenomenon and how to use it". He said that paying for the service would be a problem because of the "bosses" attitude. I asked him to explain this and he said that the boss was initially interested in the use of the service probably because It was so highly classified which gave the program an aura of mystery and legitimacy, i.e., it must be good if it's so highly classified. However, this support died after a while due to the lack of success. told him that tf he was going to be in the DC area we would be pleased to talk further. He noted that he gets up here occasionally, but didn't think he'd be up here before the end of September (I told him we had a hard schedule commitment). He reiterated his belief that there was "something" to this phenomenon but more research was required. He noted one case where an RV provided him with information on a ship that described it so precisely that when he saw it, e.g., shape, color, he was convinced that the phenomenon existed. But, he said, it simply is not understood well enough as yet to be relied upon for applications. SG11 We completed the conversation about 0950. ~ never asked me for any Identification nor even for the spelling of my name. He was very open a forthright in his comments, his demeanor was most cordial and gracious and his comments were made (n a most convincing tone of voice. He responded to my questions without any apparent hesitancy in spite of his initial cautionary attitude regarding the sensitivity of the program. Considering his intelligence background, the nature of this protect and the facts that he didn't know me and claimed to not have spoken to Vorona, I was very surprised at his openness and direct responses to my questions. I noted that we thought the program was going to be declassif(ed and he thought that was good, but even without that prompt, he hardly hesitate to respond to anything I asked him once we started discussing his involvement. came away with the belief that he was trying to support continuation of the program (especially the R&D) but was not a great supporter of its use for operational applications at the present time. His stated belief In the validity of the phenomenon could account for this, although I found his support a little strange given that he is retired and no longer engaged in Coast Guard activities. On the other hand, this could be Please call immediately If there are preblems with this transmission Pale 2 Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2 interpreted as support for an old friend's request. While he was most convincing over the phone regarding his lack of recent communication with Vorona, he Is a retired intelligence officer and may be accustomed to portraying things differently that they are. Please cal! Immediately li' there are problems with this transmission Page 3 Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2 ~J~,:,:rTved F; r Relea~ ~nnninQi~ n ? r_in_Rnpa~_nm9,1 Rnnn2nn31 ~^_~1-2~ Fax Cover Sheet SG11 SG11 To: From: Company: Date: Mon, Aug 28, 1995 Time: 10: d9 AM No. of pages (not including cover) : 2 Comments: -for some reason the connection breaks after the first page. Let me try sending it with this cover sheet and see if it goes thorough. Approved For Release 2000/08/10 :CIA-RDP96-007918000200310001-2