AN INTERVIEW WITH ADMIRAL TURNER

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP99-00498R000300040013-4
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 28, 2007
• Sequence Number: 13
• Publication Date: August 10, 1979
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
The Today Show
STATioN WRC TV
SUBJECT
NBC Network
August 10, 1977 7:00 AM
An Interview With Admiral Turner
JANE PAULEY: Admiral Stansfield Turner, President
Carter's personal choice to head the Central Intelligence Agency,
Is In our Washington News Center this morning with Ford Rowan
to talk about the agency's past and his plans for reform.
Good morning, gentlemen.
FORD ROWAN: Good morning, Jane. And good morning,
Admiral Turner.
ADMIRAL STANSFIELD TURNER: Good morning, Ford.
ROWAN: The CIA cannot seem to get out from the burden
of Its past. The latest disclosures had to do with drug experi
mentatlon. Some of these tests were In connection with Army
tests. And a couple of years ago, the Surgeon General of the
Army said that these tests on unwitting subjects who didn't know
they were being tested violated the Nuremberg war crimes code.
Do you think that any of the people that were Involved
In these experiments, any of the CIA people, should be prosecuted?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, that's a matter-for the' Justice
Department to decide. This Is so far In the past, twelve to
twenty-four years that the CIA had. any participation In '?admI n is
tering drugs to unwitting people, that we have simply turned over
the records to the Justice Department for them to see if there Is
any legal Implications.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, we've all read spy novels where
the other side tries to lure our agents to defect by catching them
in compromising positions. But now we've heard of the program called
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midnight climax, In which, apparently, American men were lured from
bars in San Francisco and New York Into CIA safe houses, apartments
with two-way mirrors, and fed LSD by prostitutes.
Can you assure us that that kind of thing was stopped
and won't ever s+art again?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Absolutely. That's totally beyond the
pale of our considerations today. I'm not here to condemn nor to
condone or apologize for the past. But we just feet that in this
day and age, that kind of thing Is unconscionable.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, most of the disclosures have
dealt with a program called Ultra, which was the drug testing
program. There was also a program called Delta, which was the
operational use of drugs; not only drugs, but hypnosis and radia-
tion and harassment techniques. And did the CIA actually go out
and use these kind of things on foreigners or Americans; not tests,
but operational use?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Not to my knowledge. I haven't dug into
all of that past history. What we're trying to do is study the -
past enough to make sure that any errors In it do not recur. Beyond
that, I'm concentrating my efforts for it on building an intelligence
community for the future of this country.
ROWAN: Wet I , I et me ask you about some of these changes
for the future. For example, are you cutting back on the number
of clandestine operatives that the CIA.has overseas?
ADMIRAL TURNER: No, not really. What we're cutting back
on-Is excess overhead that has accumulated over the yea-rs. As
you know, there was a major reduction In the CIA after our with-
drawal from Vietnam. And we .just didn't cut back quite enough.
And we've got more fat; we've got more. overhead than we can afford.
And I want to be sure that every employee out there is fully chal-
lenged and has a really demanding job, and that's what;.we're getting
down .,to: lean and mean.
ROWAN: Has the amount of covert action -- has that amount
gone down In. recent years, and do you, foresee less of -these _ k i nd of
operations overseas?
ADMIRAL TURNER: The amount of covert action has reduced
very remarkably over the past dozen years or so. And my feeling
Is that this Is an exceptional circumstance that we wo'aid use co-
vert action In. But I feet very strongly at the same time that
we must maintain that capability for the kind of-unusual circum--
stance that may arise and In which the country would find us wanting
if* we did not have If.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, there's been some criticism In the
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pat of the CIA's analytical product, the analysis that it co-:ces
? up with from the electronic surveillance and the human intelligence
that comes in.
Are you pleased with the work product of the CIA?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Yes, I am. Now, one never can res+ es+ on
his laurels or be satisfied that your analysis Is as good as 1+
could be. So we're constantly trying to improve that.. knd
think we have some of the best analysts i n the country otr-`
there at the Central Intelligence Agency. And I'm very p eased
with their overall product.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, Vice President Mondale said
recently that he thinks that all wiretapping or eavesdrapp ing_
by radio by agencies of the government, and I guess t1rat E cI vles
the National Security Agency, should be subject to court- warrant
and that the warrants should be Issued, In his belief, on suspicion
of a crime.
Do you agree with that?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, we have strongly supported the
b i l l that i s before the Congress today, which w i l l require a
court warrant for any kind of a wiretapping operation inside
the United States. This, we think, is a protection to the
American people. It's an assurance that what Is done in -:hits
country In the way of wiretapping Is done In prescribed pro_
cedures that protect their rights.
ROWAN: Well, Senator [sic] Mondale went beyond that
bill In suggesting it might -- Vice President Mondale, In sug-
gesting it might be amended to require that the warrants only
issue in case of suspicion for a crime. Would you go that far?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, that's not part of the blU as it
Is presented right now. And I think the Vice Presiden.1-ts: posit ion
may well be adopted by the Congress, and that's a fine -- a fine
thing If that's what they want to do. =
ROWAN: Would it hurt your effort or the effort of thL
NSA to listen In on conversations?
ADMIRAL TURNER: To have to go to the criminal standard?
It could. It could reduce it some. But in each of these? ?nstances,
we're balancing the protection of the people versus the ability to
collect Intelligence. And I think that the bill, as a whole, Is
a very good compromise in that direction.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, there's been Increasing concern
tha+ the Soviets are listening to our telephone conversations here
In the United States. A study done for the White House said that
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It's rather 'easy to Intercept telephone conversations which
are relayed by this microwave towers across the country.
How serious- is that problem In your view?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, It's a much broader problem
than what has been discussed about the Soviet Intercept of these
communications. The country, as a whole, has become so dependent
on high speed, high volume electronic transmissions that all kinds
of people or organizations could be intercepting these, be they
unscrupulous citizens, gangsters. Could they be industrial spies,
as well as espionage agents of many countries?
And we are working very, diligently to find an overall
solution that will try to protect the American citizen, whether
It's against. his fellow citizens or foreign espionage agents.
It's a difficult technical problem, however.
ROWAN: Well, some people are worried that our government,
the National Security Agency,'for example, does the kind of eaves-
dropping that we're talking about and does It on Americans. Can
you give any assurances in that regard?
ADMIRAL TURNER: The intelligence community of your
country does not operate against Americans In the United States.
ROWAN: Well it has In the past, hasn't It?
ADMIRAL TURNER: That is the kind of abuse that we are
dedicated to preventing re-occurring today. It's why we've gone
to the Congress with the wiretap bill that you have must mentioned.
And any wiretapping Is in the, name of foreign Intelligence.
ROWAN: Thank you very much.
We're talking with Admiral- Turner. And now back to'
JaneIn New York.
PAULEY: Thank you, Ford. And time for a -stet
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