RABIN INTERVIEW IN ISRAELI NEWSPAPER MA'ARIV

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Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 
LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4
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RIFLIM
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K
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11
Document Creation Date: 
January 11, 2017
Document Release Date: 
July 30, 2010
Sequence Number: 
35
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Publication Date: 
April 18, 1975
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OPEN SOURCE
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PDF icon LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4.pdf1.85 MB
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No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 FBIS 9 r RAB~N INTERVIEW IN ISRAELI NEWSPAPER MA'ARIV TA1450 TEL AVIV MA' ARIV IN HEBREW 15 APR 75, PP (ALL PORTIONS CONCERNING FOREIGN AFFAIRS ARE INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY DOV GALDSTEIN) a._ (EXCERPTS) (nUESTION) MR PRIME MINISTER, IF YOU "WERE ISRAEL'S LD YOU PROPOSE TO AMBASSAbOR TO THE UNITED STATES NOW, WHAT ~JOU YOUR GOV7RNMENT IN ORDER TO OVERCOME THE REL A' I'ON S' .A?!uSWE"R~; THE ADVANTAGE LIES IN THE FACT THAT 'I NO LONGER AM ISRAEL'S A BASSAT)OR TO THE UNITED STATES, BUT THE PRIME MINISTER, AND INSTEAD\OF HAVING TO MAKE DO WITH GIVING AN AMBASSADOR'S I AM ABLE TO ACT 14 THE WAY I DEEM L AN!) -COMMENDATIONS , COUNSE NECESSARY. DO NOT CONTEND THAT THERE IS A CRISIS IN U.S.-ISRAELI RELATIONS. I IS TRUE THAT WE HAPPEN TO BE IN A PERIOD OF CERTAIN DIFFERENCES 6F. OPINION. IT WILL BE RECALLED THAT AN 'OFFICIAL STATEMENT HAS BEEN MADE''N BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN DEFENSE DEPARTMENT SPECIFYING MIDDLE EAST POLICY S OF . U. 714AT IN THE CO }ESE OF THE REASSESSMENT NO DISCUSSIONS' OF NEW ARMS DEALS WITH US WILL BE ENTERED INTO. IF THIS IS ONE F THE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE PERIOD .OF DIFFERENCES OF OPINION THEN ,,AT SHOULD BE RECALLED THAT SUCH THINGS HAPPENED AND SUCH PHENO!EIA MANIFESTED THEMSELVES AT LEAST, : TWICE DURING MY SERVICE AS AM,. `ASSADOR TO THE UNITED. STATES. , I? AM GLAD TO NOTE THAT WE ARE NOT 01Q 14. IN A SITUATION LIFE THE ONE I N WHICH WE FOUND OURSELVES AFTER TJIE 6-DAY WAR, WHEN THE PRESIDENT' JOHNSON'S ADMINISTRATION DETIDED ON A "SUSPENSION," MEANING A DEFERMENT OF CARRYING OUT LF.GSTIMATELY SIGNED ARMS DEALS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES TELY 6 PROXIM A AND ISRAEL. FOR .AN UNINTERRUPTED INTERVAL OF AP ITED STATES TO ISRAEL MONTHS, ALL ARMS' SHIPMENTS FROM THE LIM IJATION TOJJAY THE SIT . . WERE THEN STOPPED, NO, THIS IS NOT CURRENTLY OURR CHIEF EFFORT IN THE UNITED STATES MUST BF CENTERED ON TWO PRINCPAL,! LEVELS: THE FIRST TASK IS.: A DETAILED AND FULL-FLEDGED INFORMATION CAM~PAVN{AIMED AT THE ENTIRE AMERICAN PUBLIC, EXPLAININIG WHAT REALLY HAPPENED DURING THE TALKS WITH EGYPT MEDIATED By DR KISSIMGER, , WHY THE NEGQ: IATIONS WERE STOPPED, AND WHO BROKE THE"! OFF IN POINT OF OACT.' 1 BELIEVE THAT IN THIS RESPECT THE HET TUT.- MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC -.1EWISH ' ` ~1C RF: CO"1VtCTION HAS AS W 'LL AS moll' ,Y rWISll--i AT' THE TALKS WERE BROKEN OFF BY THE EGYPTIANS AND THAT TSRAE r)F:MONST} PT?D FLEXIBILITY AND READINESS TO LOOK FOR VARIOUS ME MS TO Ar~1IEk': AM INTERIM SETTLEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL. IT ISO OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT ISRAEL'S CREDIF3ILITY IN THE EYES OF A^~ RICAN PUBLt'.C OPINION BE MAINTAINED AND FOSTERED, AMD THAT THERE,SHOULT) 8F !gip DOUBT REGARDING THE QUESTION OF WHO WAS GUILTY OF THE SUSPENSION OF THE TALKS, AND WHY ISRAEL WAS UNABLE TO ACCEPT THE EGYT"TIAN DEMANDS WITHOUT APPROPRIATE COMPENSATION. THE SECOND LEVEL IS THE POLITICAL ONE. I AM REFERRIN TO PRINCIPAL PERSONA-LIT IES OF, THE ADMINISTRATION BOTH I N THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE' !t1(A '~IC11EE. )IF.RE. THE CONFRONTATION IS OVER THE CONTENT HE T " OVER THE POSITIONS OF RIES , OF RELATIONS 7 EE N T111 TWO COUNT 7~W ADMINIST.RATTI'1,1:. t'I EVERY SPHERE A FIRM STAND I N pUR POSIT IONS. THE FIRST TARE OF OUR STRUGGLE ON THESE TWO LEVELS- AMERICAN P1171-LIC OPINION A` 11.4 1L AS OUR RELATIONS WITH THE ADMINISTRATIOPI- I" TO ARRIVE AT A ~OLLIMG OFF PERIOD IN. THE TENSION BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES, P TE>>SI N THAT WAS G" NERATED FOLLOWING THE SUSPENSION OF' THE TALKS. THE OBJECTIVE OF THIS PERIOD IS TO BRING ABOUT AN ACTUAL STGvn+^T '?+T1N1~ OF RELATIONS. THE WAY THEY WERE BEFORE DR TCcrfdrc No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 I--_ wV~1'+P'I..TT..nAt M17-riarVAI TI-17 It hl IT ED . RFLA No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 AND FOR STATES A"1D T711, A:L AT A CONllllluu run r-r:JwJAV,0-J IV Nn(.., . ,.r,._... ED I NTO PR'ENTING WAR IN T4`-- MIDDLE EAST. SHOULD THE ARA1'~S ~ "E MISL.. , SEVERING ITS TIES WITH T RAEL ES I S G T'3AT TUE UNITED STAT THIN!(( ! " TUTS !4O LTI, IT:ENSIFY THEIR :NT 'X R " ` , T L E I IGI Nt 1LY Tt) A E'VE'N IF 0~ ? SrECT D THEREBY PREVENT ANY PR: t AND 1~10UL A I~tF "I7("[?1 1"'t ;TT IC~1. T? A M3 FEE R P% Ors?`""`` T OWAR ACf... 1PURTHERMORE, SU I., M H f"r .u .. ti . > EL AND HARMING THE SPECIAL TIES' EXISTING 'rTI1N SR I A l77TRI^TFNT Or ---- ---__ _ . D' ICSRAE WOULD FOSTER AMONG THE ARABS THE T D ST TES N RENEWAL FOR A ILLUSION THAT THE PROP ~; CONDITIONS AR ABS HAD SEEN CREATED. I AM CONVI^ICEU THA )ANTS SUC'.H A SITUATION TO COME ABOUT. ONLY AFTER A PERIOD DURING WHIC1H THE ROUG1H EDGES IN RELATIONS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE UNITED OOTuTn n"T WILL IT BE POSSIBLE, WILL IT BE T N1/ITHER THE UNITED STATES NOR ISRAEL STATES HAVE PF,~N 5M IMPERATIVE, TO OPEN A NEW CHAPTER IN EXAMINING THE' POSSIBILITIES AND PROSPECTS FOR PROGRESSING TOWARD PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. I RELIEVE IT 17 WIT11IN OUR POWER TO ACHIEVE THESE TWO AIMS IF WE CONDUCT OURSELVES SENSIBLY AND CALMLY. MY IMPRESSION, GAINED FROM BOTH U.G. PUBLIC OPINION AND FROM REACTIONS OF KEY PERSONALITIES IN VARIOUS BRANCHES OF THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION, GIVES ME REASON TO ASSUME THAT WE ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH. I WOULD EXPECT THAT OUR COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA AND THE ENTIRE PUBLIC WILL NOT GIVE WAY TO NERVOUSNESS BECAUSE OF A SINGLE UTTERANCE BY ONE AMERICAN PERSONALITY OR ANOTHER FROM TIME TO TIME., r REA'3SE'>>MENT WILL THE RESULTS Or, THE R VIEW YO U (01!q:FTT0~1) WHAT, IN , OF U. S. POLICY I N OUR REGION RE? SINCE NO OTHER COUNTRY OF SUBSTANCE IN THE "1IDDLE FAST IS AS DEPENDENT ON THE UNITED STATES AS ISRAF_L, SELF-EVIDENT THAT ANY CONCLUSION NECESSITATING A CHANGE I`? IT NAT IN U.S. POLICY WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR ISRAEL? (ANSWER) THE RESULTS OF THE REASSESSMENT BY THE U.S. GOVE N'~1ENT WILL TO A CRf? AT EXTENT BE DETERMINED BY OUR STAND, OUR SUCCESS Tug 4WO-LEVEL CONFRONTATION- WIT}t PUBLIC OPINION AND WITH MEMBERS OF T`' A~)m? AND Tf1E 20NCRESS. IN TRUTH, IT IS NOT JUST THIS CONFRONTATION THAT WILL DETERMINE THE RESULTS OF THE REASSESSMENT-- OUR "T A-11) DILL '-HAV1' A DECISIVE INFLUENCE AS WELL. SINCE I HAVE FAIT14 IN OUR APILITY TO PERSEVER3 , AND SINCE I AM, CONVTN`CE1) EL, THAT A STPO"'C I""AEL IS ALSO AN'AMERICAN INTEREST, AID TO ISRA IN ITS CHIME COMPONENT S, WILL CONTINUE IN THE FUTURE AS IN THE PAST. 'TIF S IN THE E BEEN DIF'FICt1l ' THERE Y OF ARMS, F'E ARDING THE SUPPL HAV . THEM t,~E SHALL OVERCOME G CENTRAL POSITION OF TH!,, UNITF.1) )TAT ?> PAST, AND WE HAV " SUC 'Fr:1~Ef1 I N w/rUTCOMIN THE PRESENT DIFFICULTIES, TOO. AS FOR FINANCIAL AID, I BELIEVE W SHALL RECEIVE GSEAT F? FINANCIAL HELP FROM THE UNITED STATES THAN WE HAVE RECEIVED .SO FAR, ALTHOUGH IT IS SENSIBLE TO ASSUME, SOMETHING THAT HAS ALSO BEEN THE CASE IN THE PASTS THAT WE SHALL NOT GET ALL THE AID YE ASKED FOR. AS. FOR THE POLITICAL POSITION OF THE UNITED STATE5, I DO NOT EXPECT SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES,, BECAUSE I RELIEVE THAT THE AMERICAN INTEREST, IS TO HAVE PROGRESS TOWARD PEACE, TO `SEE'K 1!J/Y5 TO PREVENT WAR AND A DESIRE TO MAINTAIN T11E C'" I N T 11F CIVDF'AVQI S TO AC't1TEVE PEACE. No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 FRIS 99 FIRST ADD, 96 (RABI N I NTERVIEW) XXX TO ACHIEVE ('XCERPTS) TALK 'MILL MARK 'A N HAT. HAS ARISE '' N"T'RAL CONSIDERATION IN THE' EECISIDN REGARDING ) T W ER (ANS 1 . ALLONS TRIP WAS E -INFORMATIONAL EFFORT AND ' -HE.INTENSIFICATION OF. _-- _ ~. t w.-'rI" ut`1 p T.CnArl _ e1 1 nm ES ING O . N. yr WJ61-L JEWISH MANIFEST AA Q N WILL MET IN RFGI MAL RALLIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES WITH JEWISH ERICAN LEADERS AND PUBLLC ODMMUNITY LEADER'S A D WITH NON.-JEWISH AM S REIGN MINISTER` F O THE FIGURES. IT IS O ATURAL THAT AFTER, INVITED TO MEET LD BE` O U IDED UPON, HE W OV RSEAS TRIP H D E N DEC S, ALLON WILL PRESENT TO DR KISSINGER ST ALK IN 1 5 DR KISS Nr_,}'R. THE PICTURE OF TH SITUATION ,AS IT IS VIEWED`S;Y ISRAEL, BASED ON, AS OF THE CABINET. ALLON..WILL; WAN' TO HEAR ECIS O `' ~ 1 XISTIhIC D THE REASSESSMENT FROM DR KISSINGER. F THE U. U S 5E . . D ABOUT THE PROCES IT IS IMPORTANT, I `1Y VIEW, FOR ISRAEL TO BE': IN A POSITION IN WHICH RSE OF THIS PPDCESS . IT,.KNO'd5 WHAT IS G I-NG ON IN THE COU IN TI-117 ASSESSMENT THAT AS-S ADAT`S :STION) DO l SHARE (OU INFLE'XIBLF STAND INI7 THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT FAILED S`tEMMED, TO A LARGE R . HIS WORK FO O D D ISSINGER WOOL . !~ ,y EXTENT, FROM HIS C FIbENCE ,THAT K ,.r.~rnrccTh~tGCOMM ?ti1 AJ~_1. Akt'C'tmollT 'AN CHI -?wn -- -- }I;XM ANND E.A1v,tl, ry,i-r4J0? LGYPT I AN QUID PRO (ANSWER) AS-SA AT' S" BASIC PURPOSE HAS BEEN AN1~ REMAINS TO ACHIEVE , ARAB COUNTRIES--MEANING HER T ?THE POLITICAL GOAL: HE SHARES WITH R O , NT OF AN TH ES TABLIS HME ES L I N ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL TO PRE-'3-UAY WA ' ARAFAT-LED STATEN JUDAEA, SAMARI A AND THE 13AZA 'STRIP, AND ALL IN THIS RESPECT, RETURN . THIS WITHOUT GIVIN RF,.AL PEACE IN NO CHANGE HAS OCCU RE'f) AS FAR AS 'AS-SAD AT IS ~CONCERNEO. PRIOR TO THE YOI KIPPUR WAR, AS-SADAT WAS .CONCENTRATING ON ATTAINING HE WAS RELYING ND ACCORDINGLY , A THIS OBJECTIVE BY MILITARY MEANS, :MORE ON THE SOVIET" UNION, WHICH WAS SUPPLYING HIM'WITH. AN ABUNDANCE . OF ARMS. AFTER THE YOM KIPPUR WAR, AS-SADAT HAS, BEEN CONCENTRATING ON AN ATTEMPT TO AJOHIEVE THE SAME OBJECTIVES ,BY POLITICAL MEANS. THE ONLY POWER ABL$ TO HELP HIM IN THIS IS THE UNITED STATESy SINCE FORCE ND ' BILITY O A ONLY IT, INvAS-SAl ,T...:TVIEW, wHASAnn POD A FOLLOWED THE PRES DENT OF EGYPT'S INTERVIEWS AND STATEMENTS CANNOT IGNORE THE EMPHAS S HE PLACES ON HIS WORDS AIMED AT THE UNITED STATES. THE UNITm STATES IS THE COUNTRY THAT SUSTAINS ISRAEL AND PREHEND WHY IT WILL NOT MAKE USE OF ITS O M IS BEYOND HIM T~O C ON ISRAEL TO MAKE IT RESPOND TO AS-SADAT'S IT TILITY TO EXERT PRESSURE A DEMANDS. AS-SA17A,T IS, NOT PELINOUISHIN3 THE PI.IILDINIG AND FOST1 RI G OF THE MILITARY OPTI011, ~'UT ` .AS LONG AS ME HAS NOT REACHED THE CONCLUSION THAT ALL HIS ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THE UNITED STATES HAS 'SEEN FXKAIJS"1E'~-- NLZSTZNC3, AT THE SAME TIME THE ENTIRE ARAB WORLD, EUROPE AND "T HIRDD IIORL!3" COUNTRIES TO MAKE THE UNITED STATES ATTAIN ;"OSITIV' AT) T'A^NOII1LE RESULTS FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW- ti1F `MILL CONTINUE TO SEE INN THIS SPHERE HIS PRINCIPAL TA7K, ills CENTRAL FIELD IT ACTIVITY. I REPEAT AND EMPHASIZE THAT THERE 19 CH TO FOR1~STALL PARALLEL PREPARATION ' S APPROA SADAT NOTHING IN AS- OF HIS MTIK TT AQ V MTP14T FOR THE MOMENT WHEN) HE DECIDES ATHAT^ THE TIME PEACE. ~ Do YOU ENTERTAIN HOP~ES",THAT '''HE,KISSINGER-ALLAN (yUESTION) N OVERCOMING THE GLOOMY- ATMOSPHERE J,F1',.;IRIST STEP .~ SRAELI-U.S. RELATIONS? :c_.r_ eT1wT 7~ !~trT1.1'1YNu. ^ C~r UE,, , I No Objec AIR to Declassification A0 n rui 2010/07/30 . iOC-HAK-157-5 35-4 St I!- KIM I M PIN x INSTEAD OF REMAINING A FRIEND TO ISRAEL, WOULD PERFORM T1IC TASK OF SCU "E?P1G ISRAEL SO THAT HE, AS-SADAT, COULD SATE HIMSELF WITH THE JUICE? (ANSWE'R) INN MY EVALUATION, AS-SADAT'S HOPE THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL EXTORT SUCH PRESSURE ON ISRAEL THAT, IT WILL FJ FORCED TO SAY YES STEMS FROM TI4E CONCLUSION OF THE YOM KIPPUR WAR. AS-SAD4T KNOWS THAT HE HAS THE UNITED STATES TO THAN FIRST AND FOREMOST FOR THE RESCUE OF THE 3RD ARMY. THE SOVIET UNION WAS INCAPACLF OF SAVING THE 3RD ARMY. THIS WAS DONE BY THE UNITED STATES. SINCE THEN, AS-SADAT HAS MODIFIED EGYPT'S 'POSITIONS TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, TAKING U.S. INTERESTS INTO CONSIDERATION. HIS POLICY IS TO, RAISE HOPES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT THROUGH EGYPT IT WILL BE POSSIBLE TO BRING ABOUT A CHANGE IN THE POWER AND ',}EIGHT THE SUPER POWERS HAVE I N THE ARAB WORLD, A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER FOR THE UNITED STATES. HENCE, AMERICAN INTERESTS ARE FORTIFIED RY FOSTERING RELATIONS WITH EGYPT AND I-IITH AS-SADAT. THE AMERICANS EE IN THE STREr IGTF{CNING OF THEIR MIDDLE EAST POSITION, OR IN THE PROSPECT OF STRrNGTIIFNIN( THIS POSITION BY A FURTHER, MORE CONSIDERABLE AEL MUST ALSO BE INTERESTED IN. DR KISSINI3. .R EXTENT, SOMETHING THAT ISR N TELLS US OPENLY ANT) EXPLICITLY THAT SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE POSITIO TOO " F FOR YOU . , OF THE UNITED STATES N1 11,L. BE GOO ST ANDI N FOR THE AMERICAN N ' DND FOR UNDER BUT WITH ALL THE EGYPT AND THE AMERICA".! DESIRE TO STRENGTHEN ITS OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, ISRAEL CANNOT GIVE UP ITS VITAL POSITIONS FOR THIS GOAL. Y THAT THE IDENTITY OF INTERESTS S A (' UESTIO")) WOULD YOU P11T`,1EEHH TFIE UNITED STATES AND EGYPT ,IS CURRENTLY MORE ]PROMINENT THAN THE IDENTITY OF INTERESTS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL? p ANYWAY, ISR r,EL WILL HAVE TO CO:)I . VFiC`'T S T : ILLUSION) THAT AS-",DAT WILL INDEED CHANGE HIS CHARACTER SUBSSTANTI ALLY. ER IT" MOVES AND ITS POSITIONS " (ANSWER) NO9 NOT WAR FROM IT! THE DANGER LIES IN THE AMERICAN tEIG N I N ACCORDING TO ITS OWN SOVE GOODS THROUGH THE SUEZ ONCE THE CANAL (ANSWER) IN THE CONTEXT OF THE DISENGAGEMENT AGREEMENT WITH EGYPT, WE RECEIVED AN EXPLICIT PLEDGE, THE EXACT VERSION OF WHICH I DO NOT WANT TO DISCLOSE, THAT WHEN THE CANAL IS OPENED, THE TRANSIT OF GOODS TO AND FROM ISRAEL WILL BE ALLOWED. A IJT,ION) IN THE 1DI OR IS THERE NIOT, AN EGYPTIAN COMMITMENT TO ALLOW TRANSIT OF ISRAELI IS OPEND? GEMENT AGREEMENT WITH EGYPT, IS THERE, SENG ( CHEST ION) WHAT WILL ISRAEL DO TO HAVE THIS PLEDGE IMPLEMENTED? No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 (A' W R) ISRAEL WILL UTILIZE ITS POLITICAL' CONNECTIONS TO SEN THAT THAT COMMITMENT I S ruL PII.Lrrr., PRESENT. OF RELATIONS, IGNIFICANT WORSENING,' ection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 SECONt) ADD 9G (Fi A!?IN INTERVIE W) XXX COMMIT M': NT I S FULFILLED. (EXCERPTS) (OUESTION) YOU SAID RECENTLY THAT TS-I~ ARMS IT REOUIR!ES IT WILL NOT NEED TO INITIATE. A WAR. SUPPOSE IT DID NOT HAVE THESE ARM-51, (ANSWER) I HAVE SAID 1HA , AS LONG AS WE HOLD LINES AND HAVE THE NECESSARY TOOLS TO INSURE THE IDF'S STRENC3THU SINCE I BELIEVE THAT THE / WE WILL NOT NEED A PREVENTIVE WAR.. ~.,w. ,.r. nr. L-nlr.in '1`urpw, IS NO mpnIINE7 1. FOR A HYPOTHETICAL ANSWER DIFFERENT F-HUM WHAT I HAVE SAID. (n!)E?STION) PUT IF AS-SADAT AGREES TO A DEEP ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL WITHOUT PROMISING TO END THE STATE OF F,3EL1.Ir1ERENCY, I3RAEL WILL PE' ONE OF THE CONDITIONS WILL BE CANCELLED AND IN OTHER LINES--NOT AS GOOD AS THE ONES IT IS IN AT BUT WE WILL BE FOUND NOT ONLY IN DIFFERENT (ANSWER) TRUE, LINES, PUT ALSO IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION IN REGARD TO RI LATIOVS, BETWEEN EGYPT AMD ISRAEL, IN A DIFFERENT CYST WITHIN THE ARAB WORLD, AND EVEN IN A DIFFERENT SYSTEM BETWEEN ONE OF THE TWO SUPERPOWE"RS'.AND EGYPT. (ntJESTION) AND WOULD YOU SEE ALL THIS AS A ISRAEL' S'STRATEGIC POSITION-1 (ANSWER) SINCE I AM PREPARED FOR A TERRITORIAL COMPROMISE IN SINAI IN RETURN FOR A POLITICAL 0UID PRO C?UO9 I FEEL THAT EGYPTIAN ACCEPTANCE OF OUR PROPOSAL WOULD BM SOME. PROGRESS TOWARD CALMING THE REGION AND A MORE R ASONARLF.. CHANCE OF ADVANCING TOWARD PEACE. ,-t.ESTION) IS THERE PRACTICAL PROOF THAT THE ARM`t:THIAT L EX.1'CTED TO RECEIVE ?Kum I"r- Urg.LLP-1-1 ISRAEL ? NOT, ARRIVING NOW? (ANSWER) ONE MUST DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ARMS FOR SUPPLY CONTRACTS HAVE B, . REGULARLY AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO ARRIVE--AN THE SUSPENSION OF THE SIGNING OF CONTRACTS FOR ADDITIONAL ARMS UNT1 THE REASSESSMENT HAS BEEN COMPLETED. (@Ut,!;)1 .LUN J WIL Ht~~.r..rit. .., .... PARTIAL SETTLEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL CONTINUE SHORTLY? (ANS ER) I AM CONVINCED THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL CONTINUE TO SEARCH FOR NEW INITIATIVES TO ADVANCE TOWARD PEACE. a0 FAR IT IS KNOWN THAT THE UNITED STATES PREFERS PROGRESS TOWARD PEACE IN STAGES RATHER THAN GOING TO GENEVA TO ACHIEVE SETTLEMENT. AT THE SAME TIME, SHOULD CONDITIONS AN OVERALL FOR THE POSITIVE CONCLUSION OF AN INTERIM SETTLEMENT BETWEEN 'EGYPT AND ISRAEL NOT BE FOUND, THE UNITED STATES 14ILL DO CAN TO SET UP AN ACTIVE POLITICAL PROCESS BY OTHER MEANS. (n?r, cT Tnnn nn YOU STILL BELIEVE THERE IS A CHANCE ACHIEVE AN INTERIM SETTLEMENT WI n Gin L TT TO MORE DIFFICULT iTODAY TO PEACH AN INTr-,RIM, SETTLEME"T WITH EGYPT. THERE IS NO INDICATION A w PREPARED TO CHANG ANY OF ITS STAND a- -ANTS THE SAME GOES FOR _SR.r"r TN ORDER TO REEXAMINE THE POS }IRILITY OF REACHING AN INTERIM SETTLEMEN1 It I1 MA BE t.: C ..?, r,,, . IT FOR PERIOD r1,1! ING t,11 ICH A RESTORATION! OF THE OLD SI UA ION 11v 10".M!,t A. -v. S. ...w_ .- - BE ~_._....TER IN NEGOTIATIONS IKITTH FEGYPT--S'IOULD THIS ry(n~ PO ;SIr,.)1.. -..CAN t3 E:.. OPEn1ED. V/I1 IIO1.J1 LalIS, - -' ERIM SETTLEMENT WITH EGYPT CAS RE R` ' TO SEE HOW AN INT ED? IT I3 tUITE POSSIBLE THAT THE WAY TOVAN INTERIM SETT EMENT JILL SE F COULD BE A THR"7U"N THE CONVENING OF TH., GENE BENEFICIAL MOVE, ASSUMING THAT T H E .,CONFERANCEyWILL R YP,REPARED AN ON REACHING AN INTERIM SETTLE MEN1 WILL. r,GIN.. No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 A RI-TRITE! FROM ,`UHF USE 0K,,1 . CE A~ P'7T!JRM FOP TT1 KMJ)I"ll .Oh 'TII. .:,TATL. n(k) A LIMITED T TF.RI"1 5`FTMFNT IN RETURN FOR AN UNDr"1~T!1KTMG To E T" MEANS OF SOLVING T11F.. CONFER"T. r CHO ES T1{r- SECOND WAY--THAT IS, A ' No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 THIRD ADD 96 (R AF I N INTERVIEW) XXX SETTLEMENT WILL T3EGIN. TS) (O--ESTTnht) THE ISRAELI DECLARATION ' THAT r. (EXC RP KISSI 1 EK S SHUTTLE OFF AMERICAN PRESSURE AND AN ATTEMPT TO CATER TO, TF~E VIEWS OF A DEE R WITHDRAWA ? DIPLOMACY-,IS THIS. NOT A MEANS OF STAVING ~(1~' I UiL^ rur IVUIVDGVL.lvt Irv. >-.... _ L T HAM THAT DISCUSSED DURING PRESfl,E\NT FORD AND DR KISSINGER? THI5 !ti AS N A ^ WITHDRAWAL\ LINE. Lin ?% 1 0 0I .OF HAND, `a ,VEN WITHOUT GOIMG' INTO ITS DETAILS. IN MY INTRVIE!a ON AMERICAN TELEVISION I D'ID..NOT STATE ANY CERTAI - AT CCIDENTAL I WANTED TO LEAVE Y APPRO'IAL'THIS POSSI3ILIT _-._ ..~...,..?T,,.~n ov vr.~rcn T147 PROPOSAL OUT, ALSO, DURTMG DR KISSINGFR WAS PRESENTED TO THE 'EGYPTIAN'S THROUGH ? S VISIT AND FQLLOW,ING THE COVER NMEN1 5 F FIELDS 1 1,, ABU R UD AYS I N RETUR N BELLIGER'*NC:Y. THIS WAS BEFORE DR KISSINGER' SEO.AN HIS MISSION. T Q Ail AMERAN TELEVISION NE W OUR REA INESS TO WITHDRAW EAST OF THEs PASSES 'AMP SOUTH OF TH OIL QR AN END Tn THE STATE OF (AHSW.ER) THAT IS NOT EXACTLY SO. I ANNOUNCED OVER RK' AS EARLY AS -FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR MORE COMPR HENSIVE INTERIM SFTTLEMEN COlINTRI~S ON THIS SU3J,E~"T OPEN FOR NEGOTIATI T? ON THE BASIS OF ENDIMI THE S SHCILILD EGYPT A REE TO DISCUSS A STATE OF LLI R1 MCY BET~~JEEN THE. Iw THIS PO7`~IE;ILi7 Y '17.. ;7 HLt".rr.wa pf'J t MC*RI 'r14 ATTrdnin.n INf;Ll.1Dl" 'll E!'!C Y' TAT .T E" ')F 9E' l_I 3ER LI""TTE!)' INT...RZM' SI TTLEI~TENT A ' E TD I'T G OF Tj1!," STATE IF, ELICaER:..N ' . F TALKS THR09f74 DR KI"SINGT R DURING HIS LAST MISSION REVOLVF:n CtROU D A T H T r7IO NOT INCLUDE THE ENDING OF THE CATE:GORICA LY REJ1 ') 'a.~ rt~I "'r `I `? :Y,- ? CONSFr1"v*mTLY MOST OF' T11F NNECTION WITH THE RECENT PAST. ,AT I ! CO (,^!,_STIO) T11:3 ABOUT T}'E StT1!ATION "'")1a? WHAT is ISRAEL PROPOSING AT PRESENT? E E N F pI r;?')T:- ~ATInr!", )N P,,COMPR:,1{ _ N F^YPT; r qF Esf LL IGC"RENCY i AND NFnOT' T AT TO tlS 0E FERRE!) ; NTG0T I ATI'DN"7 QN A ,.,E;. AR I1T A , '"--T IN IVE INTERIM SETTLE M!rI AND IT SHOULD B N UNCHANGED F~1A7 P , : ( +~-E^! IC4 OUR ?ASI " STAr1DS , ?T C"ALL"D THA THREE PO"' I!RILITIES OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH EGYPT HAVE r n T r_PEEM7r1TT i,rITH F T "rYPT I N Wr101.r.-Ln i Fl D US PREP IRFD ,TO HAK- MANY (`;r)'!71771;`'I) '~1IT!IN THE FRAMEWORK ~r tH(E GEOGRAP 1ICAL DEFT! ITIONS IE E (nt!ESTION) , .1aYPT D']~"T'R1wHE lSIi' v FRI,! S~TTLtSMENT, WHICH INCLUDES THE ENDING OF THE T ST ^TE: 'Ir `'ELLI "E 1C?-- OUI.D'~ISRAEL BE PREPARED TO WITHDRAW )F'::PE? THAN IT'+.r'1AS PR E ARED WITHDRAW DURING KISSI~-" R'S MISSION? THE 7,40ULn (noi r7'1 "t) WIT`HOIJT GOING INTO\THE DETAILS OF THE LINr..C, THERE PT A"1 !?GYPTIAN READINESS TO DISCUSS AN AGREEMENT WWIITH US ON Tug' BASIS,or r^TDI~'r, THE STATE C)A, BELLIGERENCY, I BELIEVE THAT THE ERR TT Or? I AL '+,r- PO I I`!T ,-f:) D!J! EARLIER. No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 FRIS 106 FOURTH ADD 96 (R ABIN, INTERVIEW) THEM. RESUMPTION AND SINCE I ATTACH SUCH GREAT IMPORTANCE TO THE REC . U~ FOSTERING OF SUCH CONTACTS, THE VERY PUBLICATION HARMS THE CHANCES OF ESTABLISHING THESE CONTACTS AND OF MAKING PROGRESS I N NO OPEN CONTACTS WITH ISRAEL. COUNTRIES WITHIN AND OUTSI VE FOR ISRAEL IS TO, SEARCH EVERY A w DE THE REGION--COUNTRIES THAT HAVE PUBLISHED ON THIS SUBJECT. E TO A('HIEVE CONTACT WITH (ANSWER) I DO NOT INTEND 'OFE CONFIRM OR DENY THE REPORTS T14T WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT TOWARD RESUMING DIPLOMATIC RELATI N OUFSTION) SINCE THE REPORT POF THE ERHAPSCYOLIACAN DISPERSE THEIFOG REPRESENTATIVE HAS LEAKED T ALFS A LITTLE SAYING 3 WHETHER RTHERE SIGN TOR ANY PROGRE' OF AN IMPROVEMENT I N RELATIONS WITH THE S 0 S? .TO THE In1DIVIDUAL, BUT TO THE ru I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE CAN PREVAIL. OVER MOODS. AND WITH YOUR PERMISSION I WANT TO STOP WITH THIS REMARK. (AN!SWER) I DO NOT THINK THAT THER A FOR A PUBLIC CONFRONTATION OVER THE STRUCTURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP ,,,ITX, KTS^I~!GFR. EMPHATICALLY, I DO NOT FAVOR SUS!i A CONF 0`1TATIO ON A PERSONAL PASIS, v'4ITH PERSONAL CRITICISM. ~ALSO, THIS y~L ATI!]!!r!!LP SHOULD DE VIE F.D IN THE RIGHT PERSPECTIVE. EVEN! WHEN! THERE ARE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION WITH DR 1CISSING1R, ONE `'MOULD AL`JAYS KEEP IN MIND TSTTWHICH THE INDIVIDUAL OCCUPIES, T 1-1 YOU MOT FIND A PSYC 40LOGICAL NEED KIND OF A'~TONISHMENT-~-TO CRY OUT : HOW FAR? OR , ,,,OUL!~ YOU PREFER A DIFFERENT VE'P"ION: rREPORTS FROM THEPUNITED STATES ES S YDTHAT HE WAS PERSONALLY AFF ECTED. WERE DIFFERENT EXPRFSSIOP!S HE MADE TO YOU? RE GROUNDS SK THE' MAN WITH SOME A KISSI N"ER PUBLICLY AS A e r?IrNI) OF J , H HAVE SAID EVEN MORE THAN THIS. 'WHAT HAPPENED TO. TE MAN? DID '(EXCERPTS) (0j=1' MO!i ~ T A r!0 EL A Pit PRI VAT LY, YOI.! u m[]NCE YOU HAVE. DEFINED XXX POINTED OUT EARLIER. ION'S STAND MY EVALUATION IS THAT THERE IS NO CMANGE iV,'QA.TURE OF SOLUTION OF THE CONFLLLECT . EA^T`N!) I LNN RELATION CONNECTION WITH NTH E WAYS TDEC E FOLLOWER TO ACHIEVE CO~I PLICATTON CONCEPT. wE SHOULD NOT A SOLUTin^a--~l1C+"oRDING TO ITS ACCEPTED OF THESE EXAGG' RATED, AS REGARDS THE SOVIET SUN s ING ANYTHING CONNECTED WITH THE HAVE ANY ILLUSIONS FOLLOWING INACCURATE REPORTS. VE THE AMERICANS ENCOURAGED AND ARE THEY C!)UESTION) HA ENCOU"RAGIN1G OUR CONTACTS WITH THE SOVIET UNION? TION IPA THE ATTE'f'TS DER A (ANSWER) THE MAIN CONSI TO FOSTEP SUCH RELATIONS AND TIES WITH COUNTRIES THAT D0 NOT HAVE OPE!.' CONTACTS WITH US IS, AND CONTINUES TO BE, _AN ISRAELI CONSIDERATION, AND EVERYTHING IS. GEARED TO THIS CONSIDERATION. o Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 RIM 7;'Lt it,44.1 A't -' TO, ~F 0, 4 at a " a' ?+ Jttt, Owl 41R 14 -t! w;5 o Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30 : LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 = No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 VIM, It "k, ft t It 401) 14, M "A0 A~ 14 VA, 10191 Av"Is AV q * V's, or No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 I No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4 F3IS 11'; SIXTH AND 96 (RADIN INT ERV.T,ETr%O XXX SPREAD EXAGGERATED WINGS. IN TV",, '!.')0 !Y PR':DICTIONS ABOUT THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE AWAITTNIG *ICRAEI_ 11I{ORT1..Y. WHAT IS YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARI) THESE PiiEDICTIDNS? THE STATE BUDGET FOR DEFENSE, OUR ECONOMIC SITUATION WILL BE DIFFICULT. INDEED A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE DEFENSE %~I! S . BUDGET IS FINANCED WITH THE HELP OF LOANS AND GRANTS RY THE U. GOVERNMENNT. PUT ISRAEL RETURNS THESE SUMS, INVESTING THEM IN THE UNITED STATES TO BUY ARMS FOR THE IDE. SINCE THE NEED TO 1AINTAI"' A STRONG IDF WILL REMAIN FOR A LONG TIME, EVEN IF DELUD OURSELVE INTO THINKING THAT OUR ?ECONOMIC SITUATION WILL IMf'flOVE nUICI?!!PIN ID!TEI'VIEt,') XXX FFFLINNG OF HELPLESSNESS. ~'?XCERPTS) (nt!E'STION) PUT ALL THIS DOE' NIOT RELEASE THE 60^1TIITSTP:ATTON ' OM ITT OPLTCATiON TO DO F+/FRYTt[rN PC`;rI L.E IN (!!NC'J~R) INDEED IT 00F. NOT. ON THE CONTRARY, IT O7LI!'4T`7-S T!,11,-,, ADMINISTRATION UNCO"IDIT_ ION.IALLY. THE TEST OF TH,rE ISM;?ELT SOVF',r,`NMENT IN THESE: DnYS--AND IT IS ALSOT {F TEST OF THE PRIME '1INISTEP--IS TO A c Rl?AT FYT1 NT THEIR ABILITY TO INITIATE 13EFO ?1S AND TO PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE Ii! ARIAS WHERE THEY 'TILL HAVE AN INFLUENCE ON PIJFLiC MORAL VALUES, IMPOSING 4 CLEAR REEPONSIPILITY ON EVERYONE FILLING A PUBLIC POST IN T'-'.T COVIEF{"'NH?, NT, AN N GOVERNMENT AND PU! LIC ROV;~^"tr",';'^ITR, THE L * SHOULD PR APPLIED WITH ALL SEVERITY AGAINST ANYON 1,~H1EXr -PO THE L ?n1TTS OF INTEGRITY AND MORAL >3I'1,AVIO7. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR EVERYCITIZ!EM TN ISRAEL TO KNOT/ THAT I Ay !~!!-!()LLE;HEARTEDLY CONVINCED THAT EVEiRYON!E WITHOUT "X CE PTIO"1, NO MATTI?H WHAT HIS POSITION OR HIS IMPORTANCE, F!Ot1LO RE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR IMPROPER ACTS. "7.111):1[LITY OF EVERYONE R FOPI?THE LAW SHOULD T."' SO ABSOLUTE THAT EVERY ABIIS71 A.N!D Di-E,VIPTION S!IOULD OF EXPOSE) P11RLICLY, AND T!-rE- "I:'." SHOULD PR F31'~?-!"I[T TO JUST ICE EVEN IF THIS-' 1rO JL1) POLITICALLY + ARM THE THE "')V "R"irIENT ';'ILL PUT INTO PR `TIC`", ITS RELIEF TN ?ND AD` EREN To T +.- 1 r R PT I Mr ABOVE LINE I^I IT'S DOMESTIC POfSITIONI, OR EVEN ITS IMAGE APR AD. T'0:: 1OVERNMEIT 'JILL PUT INTO PRACTJr'E ITS RELIEF IN AND pDHIRENCF. T!) THIS E DUALIT Y. I t,[ISN TO ADD A VERY VALUABLE POINT REGARDING THE ECONOMIC R71*ALM. IN MY OPINION9 WE SHOULD '37E K EVERY WAY TO GIVE PREFERI,.'NiCETO THOSE ENGAGED IN AGRICULTURAL AND INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION OVER THOSE ENGAGED I N SERVICES. IT IS TRU THAT I! EVERY PRO.G'IRESSIVE SOCIETY THE TREND IS TO EXPAND AN-t IMPR!)t'': THE SERVICES, ?3UT THE CONDITION FOR THAT IS TO INSURE PRODUCTION t IRST, 13ECAi1`11: WITHOUT THAT WE CANNOT PROVIDE SERVICES. BECAUSE OR A 11I?HIE,CTIVF` CONCEPT IN ISRAELI SOCIETY THERE IC AND PROVIDE THE WORKING MAN WITH DECENT LIVING CONDITIONS. SUITS A TOTALITARIAN SOCIETY. RUT ,-1' MUST INSTILL IN THE P"t}?1 ?r.S 'BIND T 1,4C, DEEP APPRE:C'IATIONi FOR "THE HEROES OF WORK" IM T ;r oNH`.:PT TON ':1 RICH CALLS FOP ll!R ^+"':~'1T PF'CT IFiC'AT ION. 'HEN I ! F ,AR!) AND READ WHAT THE SOVIET UMTON HAS DONE T NURTURE THE WORKING AND PRODUCING MANI I THOUGHT THAT THIS ONLY PitF.F"H:1REDICE FOR 51:RHTC S. THIS IS ACTUALLY A DANC'.:R()110 AI 1- AS ,ANTIDUAT'Ei) AS THE GUILDS OF THE MIDDLE ACES." (0[JESTIONS) CERTAIN ELEMENTS IN THE HISTADRUT ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH YOUR EVALUATION THAT "OUR TRADE UNIONS T1{I!-' I TH" ODLIG^,TTO^I OF ALL OF 1.1`:). 11E Mr1n O^)r +,1()!?KFRS T" ! VERRV FiRM--A COIJNCIL_ 1!W1{ICH !W1OUL.D i,l;:PR ESENT THE rnjTL-+RI:'>TO)F' ALL GROUPS OF WORKERS. WE NEED F,^.R ";I:.AC!1I110 CIf A,['1--F'S IM TIFF REPRESENTATION OF THE VARIOUS U!ORKE'RS. FOR "XAMPLE, ALL THE WORKERS INI.THE METAL INDUSTRY SHOULD E'' OKr~ANI?F,1D IN LONE. TRADE UNION9 WITH THE DIFFERENT NUANCES WITHIN THE I[NIO^:1 EXPRESSED BY THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS WITHIN' IT. I. EV(N 11I'1':Rrr;IATi' VERY MUCi{ THE 111S.7 4{)i''I!T'7P CONTRIRUTTON INI A1_!. HI IRI?:;y r1F' rll.lit L11;-r- , AND I CON'3TDE~'R IT A PRECIOUS ASCET. 4 11 AT 111r" 'SAM! TIME:, I WANT (IS ALL TO 1.F;ARN WHAT CAN r'R IMPRO)VED. (ANSWER) NOT ONLY DO I NOT INTEND TO OFFEND ANYONE: (0!5ESTION9 AND YOU AS A PRIME MINISTER, DO YOU INTEND TO TA[(}: ACTION TO INTRODUCE THE VARIOUS REFORMS? CONMFCTED r"JITH INCOME TAX. AND THAT LATER IT SPRE'!!!) TO OTHED SPHERES. (ANSWER) WE, SHALL NOT DISCUSS HERE NIHERF THIS RECANT PITT (QUESTION) IT' IS SAID THAT ALL THIS 8FGAN WITI{ LIES ARID ITS 'MORAL LEVEL. THE, EMPHA:STS HAS NOT REEK PLACED ON THESE THINGS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS IN T[{E RIGHT WAY. W4 E, `70W' A SERIES OF LIES AND ABUSES. IT IS N!OT ENOUGH TO DELIVER. SPEECRS APOUT OUR HISTORIAL MISSION. WE HAVE RECO^ME ACCUJSTOME1) TO LIES, AND WE CONSIDER LYING A, NATURAL ACT. CORJRRCT, ErP,HA5I3.. WILL NOT 1,3'' PL,!CED ON THEM. TIIF SMALL THINGS IN"DUR LTF1": ARE TIRE THINGS r11H-Il1{ CREATE THE QUALITY OF OUR 177 ? WITH THESE THINGS THERE WTL..L. PF. NO PROGRESS IN THEM AND THE (ANSW,P--10 TF THE PRIME MINISTER DOES NOT OCCUPY HIMSELF t'rE SHOULD EXAMINE HOW WE CAN END IT. THE INCOME TAX REFORM 1.W11JICH WE INTEND TO INTRODUCE WILL I3E, IN MY OPI"',ION, A GREAT ACT WHOSE IMPLEMENTATION IS VERY. IMPORTANT TO REHABILITATE OUR MORAL V L A UESAND ELIMI NPTE LIES FROM OR LV ,UIES. I THINK THAT WE HAVE ' r P 1JN TO TRAVEL ;ALONG THE, RIGHT PATH. (END ALL) . 1,4 No Objection to Declassification in Full 2010/07/30: LOC-HAK-157-5-35-4