RONALD REWALD

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90B01370R001201650031-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 10
• Document Creation Date: December 21, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 30, 2008
• Sequence Number: 31
• Publication Date: May 4, 1984
• Content Type: MEMO

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STAT
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 in+!AA4.a.AI AIL"'
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Is he
a spy
left out _ _ -
in t ae-
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INTERVIEW /Victor t ipman
1 1+t a Ctii$ ? '1 lV. r: U W!
^ ron Rew . &acw -"-it
The embattled financial consultant talks at length about his attempted suicide,
his lavish lifestyle, and the name and operations of his controversial company
"A volcano is about to erupt in Ha-
waii. "said BBC correspondent Gavin
Ester near the end of a 30-minute tele-
vision investigative report shown
March 15 in England. Ester was not
referring to Mauna Loa or Kilauea;
he was referring to the explosive
revelations about Ron Rewald and
the consulting firm of Bishop, Bald-
win, Rewald, Dillingham & Wong
that, nine months after the firm's
collapse, are now hitting the airwaves
and printed pages across the country
and around the world.
The international and national
press-including investigative report-
ers from Australia, Japan and The
Wall Street Journal as well as the
BBC-have been digging into the
Rewald case for months and appar-
ently finding evidence of a significant .
CIA connection. Locally, KITV's
Larry Price has been pursuing the
espionage angle since last fall, and
the Hawaii Investor's Bill Wood
recently published a long article
detailing the firm's intelligence work.
According to numerous reports, not
only was Rewald a CIA operative
and Bishop Baldwin a CIA operation,
but the clandestine activities of both
the company and its leadersformeda
network of information gathering,
influence peddling and economic
deals. Are these cloak-and-dagger
reports fact or fantasy? it's too soon
to say, but among the major allega-
tions so far are.
^ Rewald and Bishop Baldwin served
as middlemen in a multimillion
dollar arms deal between Taiwan and
U.S. weapons manufacturers.
s Rewald may have stolen the plans
for Japan's HSST-the High Speed
Surface Transport train-and passed
them on to higher-ups in the CIA.
^ During the Falklands crisis two
years ago, Rewald traveled to A rgen-
tina, ostensibly to buy a bank and
polo ponies, but actual/, to determine
whether Argentina would default on
loans to the United States if it lost the
war.
^ Rewald used his Hawaii Polo Club
to court international figures such as
Filipino banker Enrique Zobel and
the sultan of Brunei to gain informa-
tion, for example, on the state of
mind of President Marcos or on the
likely course of oil prices.
These are just a few of the more
recent developments in an increasing-
ly intriguing but tangled story. Some
of the basic chronology is as follows:
July 29, 1983: On the day Channel
2 airs a report investigating Rewald
and his company. Rewald checks
into the Sheraton-Waikiki and at-
tempts suicide by cutting his wrists.
Aug. ]:In critical condition, Rewald
is taken to Queen's Hospital. Aug. 8:
Rewald is let out of the hospital and
promptly arrested; bail is set at S10
million, highest in Hawaii's history.
Aug. 16: Bankruptcy interim trustee
Thomas Hayes says Bishop Baldwin 's
money is "gone" and that it appears
Rewald was operating a "Pon_i
scheme. "Jan. 12. 1984: Circuit Judge
Robert Chang reduces Rewald's bail
to 5140,000. Jan. 31: Bail is posted
and Rewald is freed from prison.
Feb. 11: Rewald leaves Hawaii to
visit family in Milwaukee. March 1:
'Y think it's obvious from m v actions that l was
not viewing what was going on as a collapse of
the company. I sent my family off to the
Mainland withnut withdrawing even a dollar
from our Bishop Baldwin account. when I
could have taken out close to a million...
"I never really pretended-regardless of what's been said-to he a star football placer. i thought
I was great-until I reported to camp and found out that I wasn't. "
Photographs by Brrt Upncl'-' iWLU:!.Igv 1984 49
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Rewald returns to Hawaii. March 27:
Amid rising speculation of Rewald-
CIA connection, Sen. Daniel Inouye
asks for official explanation.
This chain of events Is by now well
known. What is much less known is
the character of Ron Rewald himself.
Is he a common swindler or a high-
level spy doing national security
work? Was his firm of Bishop,
Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham &
Wong providing legitimate financial
services to clients, was it merely a
vehicle for Rewald to steal investors'
money and get rich, or was it a front
for CIA activities? Was Rewald's
extravagance in surrounding himself
with polo ponies and limousines
evidence of wildly out-of-control
personal spending or was it part of a
careful plan to attract, like moths to a
flame, international power brokers
to his select circle? The questions are
the stuff of which best-sellers are
made, but the answers are as yet
inconclusive.
Amid the swirl of rumors, a few
facts emerge. Ronald Ray Rewald
was born on Sept. 24, 1942. in
Milwaukee, Wis., the son of a baker.
He has one sister. He attended South
Division High School in Milwaukee.
Sometime in the early 1_960s he ap-
parently made contact with the CIA
and did some work for it, spying on
radical groups at the University of
Wisconsin at Madison under the code
name of " Winter Dog. " He had a few
brief stints with professional football
teams in the mid-1960s. He pleaded
guilty to a misdemeanor involving
Wisconsin's franchise investment law
in 1976. He ran a sporting goods com-
panv. which went bankrupt in 1976,
and shortly thereafter he filed for per-
sonal bankruptcy. He moved to Ha-
waii in 1977.
Regardless of the outcome of the
Rewald story, there will be plenty of
work in it for lawver4. So far Rewald
has been charged by the state with
.two counts of theft by deception. He
also Is under investigation by the FBI
and the Internal Revenue Service. In
turn he has filed a multimillion dollar
suit against the CIA. and has also
sued Time Inc., Money Magazine
and Thomas Hayes for defamation
of character. In addition, because of
the large number of investors who
have lost money and the extreme
complexity of the case, many more
lawsuits will probably beforthcoming.
According to Rewald, however, it
was against the advice of his
attorneys that he consented to this
interview, which was conducted over
several weeks. Present at the initial
and longest interview were editor
Brian Nicol, media columnist Tom
Jordan, assistant editor/photog-
rapher Brett Uprichard and myself.
We began by talking about
Rewald s experiences in prison, a
depressing time for him since he was
unable to do much to help organize
his defense. "The hard part for me
... HONOLULU: Did
you steal the plans for the
HSST-the Japanese High
Speed Surface Transport
train?
REWALD: I have no com-
ment on that.
HONOLULU: Have you
ever met William Casey?
REWALD: I can't discuss
that either. . ."
was not contending with other
prisoners, " he said. "and I certainly
wasn't mistreated by guards or
anyone else. The hardest part was
just being so very, very lonely-and
concerned for m-' family during that
period of time.';
Several times, when Rewald was
talking about his family and his
recent trip home, his eves filled with
tears. When asked if his wife and five
children were doing all right, he
responded, "They're not doing all
right. Back in July when this whole
thing happened I had gone in to work
like I would have any other day, and
that was the last day I saw in
children. I hadn't seen or talked to
them since. Now m v family is split up
and living with relatives. My oldest
son has moved to San Francisco and
is working there. My wife is working
as a nurse's aide. Its not a good job, it
pans very little. They don't have a car
or anything like that. Things are very
difficult. "
At the time Rewald was interviewed,
he was staying in a spare room at a
friend's house on Oahu. He said he
was down to his last $6 and was
desperately looking for work. Yet he
still dresses well favoring suits and
ties and monogrammed shirts. And
there has been talk of books or
movies to be made from the Rewald
story, although at present any profits
monownw-
Rewald made would go to Bishop
Baldwin's investors.
Rewald did not answer CIA-
related questions (such material will
probably be the key element of his
defense), but he was quite willing to
discuss most anything else. Indeed.
he feels he has been virtually tried
and convicted in the press, and was
eager to relate his version of events.
And if some of his answers seem
unconvincing or self-serving, what is
interesting is the picture that
emerges: hardly that of the dazed and
demoralized swindler whom the
public has repeatedly seen on film
footage shuffling in and out of court
and prison-but more of a self-
assured businessman, diligently
gathering evidence to prepare for his
day in court.
HONOLULU: Did you and Sunny
Wong choose the name Bishop,
Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham &
Wong?
REWALD: First of all, you would
never choose a name like that to do
business in Honolulu, Hawaii. unless
you had a Dillingham or a Bishop or
a Baldwin to go in there. That name
was chosen to set up a company to do
business in Southeast Asia and the
Far East. We had a company going at
that particular time called CMI.
which was perfectly good and we had
no problem doing any type of
business we wanted under that
particular name. Sunny and I
participated in the choosing of that
name [Bishop Baldwin]. but that's all
that I can say about it at this point.
HONOLULU: Someone else partici-
pated too?
REWALD: Yes.
HONOLULU: Who?
REWALD: That gets into an area I
can't discuss.
HONOLULU: Why would you choose
kamaaina names to do business in
the Far East?
REWALD: I'm sure because they
added credibility to the name.
HONOLULU: Did you feel uncomfort-
able with the name Bishop, Baldwin.
Rewald. Dillingham & Wong?
REWALD: Sure. But you have to
understand that we neverthought for
one second that it was going to be
used domestically. And it was first
used in California, and I was very
concerned when it was used there.
When I say "first used." it was
actually first used in the Far East.
But domestically, it was used by
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cry unconifortible witfi it tieing that's 3Cirom, we would have commingled
close to home. And eventually it was your money with all the money that
sed right here in Honolulu. Yeali; l we had. We had no separate accounts
saw a lot of problems with that.:. s; and everything we were doing was
HONOLULU: Were you surprised really done together. Are you asking
that the name was used for so tong' where would that money have been
here in Honolulu and no one ever invested?
question 19
3aldrvia, NO LULU: Yes.
Dillingham. -" IALD: And what types of invest-
it? have been anything from
HONOLULf,fpdidsurprise volt?S to any number of up to 60
REWALQ.ys
~sarprisell? - , . * 4 of ens businesses. We were partners,
Really, in : n . it wouldn t , or.l (id controlling interest of signifi-
tt o. W ..,r..._.. __
have mad- 5ia~.dzffrretlcc what tha_t1.-5?_calhk:'nartnerships_ in something like
7i name of ir.~dgsnpany was, tt coukw, muiror five dozen deferent corpora-
have been Company rIt wtaut .tic and businesses-not only here
have beet ;betterof `_ I. think, than -- ]l3awaii but all around the world.
n Bishop, Some things we thought were very,
ii HONOLU '_ id-y proies>rjha ...~-h a difficult time getting your
,,decision to sntq_it that,: }?r. money out. We never had one client
picked withr' the United States in didn't get it immediately. We never
mind. And- V~;undetsiood'the logic- said,. "Look, you're going to have to
behind it and. it `made-sense at the give-us a week to liquidate something
time. That name was chosen, I think, and get your money out." Anybody
in 1977. 1 don't think it was used here who needed anything would just
until 1979. come in and take it out. They didn't
HONOLULU: Who was on the go through me or Sunny or any
company's board of directors? director. They'd just go to the secre-
REWALD: Myself. Sunni Wong, tary and put deposits in, take them
Tim Holzer, Gerald Signori,"1Ved out, make payments, have money
Avary. Jack Kindschi. transferred or wired, whatever they
HONOLULU: Who was running wanted. This was the normal practice.
Bishop Baldwin on a day-to-day In Honolulu out of 70-some employees
basis? Was it you or Sunny Wong? there were only maybe five, six or
REWALD: I had run it up until my seven people who even had any
retirement. At that particular time contact with the investment account.
Sunny had taken it over completely. I Out of 20-some attorneys I don't
was managing two investments, think there was more than one who
Motor Cars Hawaii and the Hawaii even had any contact with that. Yet it
Polo Club. But Sunny was in charge appears from the outside that all we
of all the employees, all the did was collect people's money and
investments, all the offices, all the run an investment scam. For a lot of
day-to-day operations of the years we did a lot of work for a lot of
company. I was also involved in people.
some of the government work we HONOLULU: The bankruptcy trustee
were doing, but that was the extent of says he can account for all but
my involvement. ' $21,000 of the more than $20 million
HONOLULU: If I had come to Bishop that went through Bishop Baldwin,
Baldwin.with half a million dollars and he says that no investments have
that I wanted you to help me with. been found outside of some real
what would you have done with my estate, the motor cars company, a
$500,000 to help me? travel company and a sporting goods
REWALD: What would we have done store. And since he gets I percent of
to help you? anything he finds, he has incentive to
HONOLULU: Yes. find things. Where are Bishop Bald-
REWALD: When would you have wln's investments? Why can't he find
come there? them?
HONOLULU: Let's say a year ago. REWALD: First of all, he gets the I
REWALD: If it was at a time that we percent whether he finds it today,
would have taken it, and you had next week, two years, five years from
come in recommended by someone now. The trustee [Reynaldo Graulty]
really is not an active part of this.
Thomas Hayes, who is the adminis-
trator, is the one who is an active part
of this. he runs the show. The trustee
is just the formal figurehead at this
point. In a lot of bankruptcies, the
trustee is responsible. I think when
you're talking about sizable amounts
of money-and certainly Bishop
Baldwin is one like that-generally
an administrator runs things. And
the administrator is paid on a monthly
salary, along with all of his attorneys
and staff and so on, so there's a lot of
incentive for them to drag something
like this out for many, many years.
I heard it said in the news the other
day that it might take seven years to
resolve this thing. Well, we think he's
going to try to get at least four or
five years out of it. And if they do in-
deed take a million dollars or more a
year to administrate this whole thing,
you're talking about very, very sizable
amounts of money. And the trustee
[Thomas Hayes] knows where a lot
of the assets are, he knows where a lot
of the business investments-are. We
even provided him with some in the
early months.
HONOLULU: Do you dispute the
findings he's come up with?
REWALD: We not only dispute it, we
can prove it.
HONOLULU: So you're saying there
are investments- there?
REWALD: There are sizable invest-
ments. Now, he certainly is wiping
out his share little by little, but that
doesn't make any difference. He
knows the money he's after, and
that'll certainly be there.
HONOLULU: Are you saving that the
incentive for him is to drag this thing
out rather than to-
REWALD: Sure. His attorneys get
S30,000 a month, he gets S6.000 a
month, all of his staff get sizable
amounts of money. II you call Bob
Smith (Rewald's attorne% J and say.
"How much do you think it's going to
take a year to run the bankruptcy and
administrate it"-he'd tell you over
SI million a year.*
HONOLULU: Are there anv invest-
ments you can name right now that
are not on the trustee's published list?
REWALD: Well, I think you made a
'Hayes. of course, denies he is procrastinating.
He and the bankruptcy attorneys are paid on
an hourly basis to a maximum of S6.000 and
530.000 a month, respectively, and Hayes says
they are not working enough hours to earn
that. He also says that the SI million-a-year
estimate is -way. way off the wall.-
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copy of the list the trustee provided,
plus the 22 extra investments my
attorneys and I have added so far.
HONOLULU: Which of those would
you say are one or tw 4izable ones
that he might "find," for example, a
year from now?
REWALD: Some of this involves
foreign people that we were in
business with. I just shouldn't com-
ment on that.
HONOLULU: So you don't want to
say which are the nuggets and which
are-
REWALD: Well, I don't want to say.
He knows.
HONOLULU: Getting back to that
hypothetical half a million dollars of
ours that you were going to invest-
you know what the bankruptcy
administrator would probably say
would have happened to it?
REWALD: That I'd probably spend it
on polo ponies or something.
HONOLULU: He'd say it would have
gone into Ron Rewald's lifestyle.
me to work. I didn't have bodyguards
following me to and from every place
I went. I did have a Corvette, and I
had a number of sports cars. My son
drove a Jaguar, a '67 Jaguar. I had a
Mercedes for my other son and
another one for my daughter. And
that's certainly extravagant. I also
had a Rolls-Royce which I thought
was the greatest investment in the
world, and I couldn't get my wife to
drive it so it sat around a lot. But I
still think it was a good investment.
Past that, the limousines were com-
pany limousines, they were for busi-
ness. I used them with my children. I
used them if we were entertaining
... I walked over to the
window, but there were
tons of people down there
so I couldn't jump..."
REWALD: I think that's what he's clients or guests. Sunny Wong, Jack
said all along. Kindschi, Jack Rardin, Jack Lord-
HONOLULU: And then maybe some any number of people used them all
of it would be used to pay back the 20 the time. Dozens of times. It's not
percent interest on other accounts ... unusual. When foreign clients were
REWALD: That's exactly what he has in town, people used the limousines
said all along. and Jaguars all the time. This was not
HONOLULU: For eight months now just a Ron Rewald personal thing. I
we've been hearing about Ponzi didn't need someone driving me
schemes and your lavish lifestyle and around.
your fraudulent company. Why HONOLULU: Are you somehow im-
shouldn't the public believe that Ron plying that the extravagant lifestyle
Rewald is a crook and a swindler? you lived here-with the polo club
REWALD: I can't imagine that the' and everything-was not something
public could believe anything but you wanted to do. but was something
that. If I could figure out a way to you were told to do'?
change public opinion on that, and REWALD: 1 can't answer it in that
for the facts to come out tomorrow, I
would do so. The fact of the matter is
my chance to defend myself can only
come in a courtroom. That will be the
opportunity for me to show what I
have to support what I'm saying.
HONOLULU: Do you consider your-
self an extravagant person? .
REWALD: I really, really don't. al-
though.I can certainly understand
where it might appear to be different
from the outside. I think a lot of that
had to do with the polo club and
things surrounding that. 1 know for a
fact that I was not.
HONOLULU: What about the cars?
You owned a fleet of luxury cars...
REWALD: Here, again, it's not what
it appears to be from the outside. The
limousine I myself drove to work
every single day. I didn't have a
chauffeur-driven limousine taking
context; I can't comment on it. But
let me say that this was not a lifestyle
I wanted at all. In fact. my family
found it extremely difficult. My wife
hated it. I didn't want that much
exposure. All I wanted was to spend
time with my family and keep things
as simple as possible. The polo club
made that almost impossible. You
know, I'd read articles about Ron
Rewald's being missed at the cocktail
circuit. I didn't even drink! And I
never went to parties unless my wife
and children were there too. I just
didn't go out unless my wife and my
children were there. A lot of times I
would show up at something like
that, but if I was thereyou can besure
that there were five little Rewalds
behind me and my wife nearby.
HONOLULU: It's been reported that
you spent a quarter of a million
dollars a month on yourself.
REWALD: $260,000 a month.
HONOLULU: Is that accurate?
REWALD: I think it's closer to about
$290,000 a year. But an interesting
thing to ask about that is: Did I have
enough money of my own to cover
that? It wasn't $260,000 a month,
regardless of what's been quoted. It
was about $290.000 a year. And if
you take my figure, you're going to
have to ask whether or not I had
enough money to support that, and
I'm saying yes I did. And if you take
the $260,000 a month, you're going
to have to try to figure where they
come up with that and then you're
going to see that it covers everything
from sporting goods investments to
just everything and anything. I mean,
$300,000 in legal fees! I mean,
everything is mine personally, right?
HONOLULU: You're saying that a lot
of that was company expenses, not
Ron Rewald's?
REWALD: Almost all company ex-
penses. Very little of it was mine. I
mean, I'll admit the tutors, which was
a large expense, was mine. The
relatives for the most part. which was
a significant expense, was mine.
Those were my expenses.
HONOLULU: Should money for tutors
have come out of the big pool of
Bishop Baldwin money?
REWALD: Only if I had money in
there to cover it like any other client.
If we were paying mortgages or
insurances or Liberty House bills or
car payments for our clients out of
that same amount, we shouldn't have
been doing that unless that client had
funds to cover it. The same for Ron
Rewald. If you're paying Ron Re-
wald's $10.000 mortgage on his Ka-
lanianaole estate then he should have
had money in there to cover it. If he
didn't. then something was wrong.
HONOLULU: Was that checked out
each month'.' If that S10.000 check
went to pay that mortgage. would
anyone look and say. "Yes, Ron
Rewald, an investor in this firm, has
money to cover that"?
REWALD: They certainly would have.-
HONOLULU: Your company made
some amateurish mistakes. You were
offering a $150.000 FDIC guarantee
when the maximum allowable was
$100.000. and then only on bank
deposits. If Bishop Baldwin really
were a legitimate consulting and
investment firm, that would seem to
be a dumb mistake-to make.
REWALD: I guess you'd have to find
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 nts- t
_ Er"+rS.~!y-~W4ii -SIGW& rxvu {:4UR UnL ..
1 - had the music and the lead-itt?and_
t e' It reilita[i-wh0-iior '
irttttdich timehas-ban spent talking
rtiainedia; givieg personal opinions
were offered at certain teveFs:Butf'ur zhad little or no involvement with the
sure that that- +vi11 ali Come out:- Central Intelligence Agency" to my
= HONOLULUhSo you're saying that it.- =lifestyle:frem gold table settings to 50
was a - deliberate preparation horses.to.a fleet of- limousines, and
brochures that had those numbers 2r it's just gone on and on and on. I've
r them? And that it wasn't just some-. never heard ot. a bankruptcy case:
body's dumb mistake-'as. a awer where so muchlime and' Cffort was- _
evel? n-- devoted to this particular area. ItJust
REWALD: I don't think they ' were.:: - seems to me to be outride of the scope- -
brochures. I think that representations of responsibility of an administrator.
were made in those areas by people HONOLULU: Let's talk abou"out:.
'
',who were working in another country .
ith someone. And it-.might be
c~wwtt
didis't:have Bishop, Baldwin, Rew
a1d, -
DilfinSham & Wong-they had my
. picture up tnere. Ana tney talked
.about me. And that's all I heard
through the whole thing. I viewed it
as nothing more than a personal
attack.
HONOLULU: Did your fatnily resist
the idea of being sent to the Mainland?
REWALD: I'm told that they did.
HONOLULU: Did they think the
report-
REWALD: They had no idea what
- didn't know what was going on.'1 had
- =was going ou They didn't even know
t the Stu-11F-IL-All '"y "" SIVUES """"""??s `U
attempted suicide. Why shouldn
et ttiy wife and
hildren
ut of h
o
ere.
c
public view attempted suicide as ==: g
P your ._ -A ndtho nwrchn t dnv,% tl%"&;nefmtn-
?-,~`"~wrong for- you to assume that those an admission of guilt?
safeguards might. not have been ' REWALD: I think they'd have-to go
provided for some people under back and review-the events of :that
day [July-29, 1983, the day of the
HONOLULU: Some people not in the Channel 2 report] from my perspec-
United States? tive. I think it's obvious from my
REWALD: Possibly. I don't think I actions that I was not viewing what
should go into that any more. was going on as a collapse of the
HONOLULU: After the company's company. I sent my family off to the
collapse, why was no one eJe arrested? Mainland without withdrawing even
REWALD: I don't understand _why I a dollar from our Bishop Baldwin
was arrested. account, when I could have taken out
HONOLULU: Did you ever ask that close to a million dollars and no one
question? would have asked a question. I never
REWALD: Again, you have to under- for one second saw the potential
happening. He just trusted me and I
said. "Look;- you-can't ask me any
questions"-and he knew that I was
in a business that sometimes was like
that-"and just do what Hell you."
My wife went. grudgingly. She
thought it was only going to be for a
matter of days, maybe a week or two.
I thought it was probably going to be
for as long as a month.
HONOLULU: If your family is so
important to you and you are a
devout Christian, why would a mere
television report drive you to suicide?
REWALD: I really saw this ending
the life we knew out here. I mean,
many of these things my children
were never aware of. When I went
through a personal bankruptcy, my
children were not aware of that. That
was not public record. My so-called
"long criminal history"--there wasn't
a relative of mine who knew about
that. My wife and I knew about it,
and a couple of attorneys knew about
it. My children weren't aware of any
of that,
HONOLULU: The things that your
children were going to hear were
things like the Wisconsin bankruptcy?
REWALD: That they never had heard
before.
HONOLULU: Also things about
school and football? Were you wor-
ried about that too?
REWALD:Oh. I didn't care about...
My children, my family, knew about
football and school. That wasn't a
big deal. But I could see that this was
focused on me. You know, it's easy to
look at it and say, "Why is that such a
big deal?" But if it were you, with
Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90BO137OR001201650031-3
-=lions to had "- no -idea what was
stand that I don't think that I should collapse of Bishop Baldwin. There -
have been arrested. I don't think that was nothing going on at that particu-
anybody else should be arrested. I lar point that would lead me to
think that there are a lot of people believe the company was in danger.
who are hurt because they've lost I'm not saying that it might not have
their savings and 1 think what should been embarrassing to have the chair-
have been done was everybody should man of the board found dead, or even
have gone to work and made sure associated with the information that
that everybody got their money back. came out from Channel 2's broadcast,
There didn't have to be a crime there but I in no way viewed it as ending
just because everybody couldn't get the company. I took it as a very
their money*.back at that particular personal, personal thing; they were
moment. Because the thing was talking about my football career, my
knocked into an involuntary bank- schooling, my background. I think
ruptcy and the trustee [Hayes] that that under the same-conditions you
came in there hasn't operated like would.view it the same way. My - --
any other trustee I've ever seen. family was here, my five children, my
HONOLULU: What do you mean by wife was very active in the church
that? Why hasn't the trustee "operated here-I could see this just wiping out
like any other trustee" you've ever their ability to walk around and feel
seen? comfortable.
REWALD: 1 feel he's been a spokes- HONOLULU: What specifically in
man for everything from the CIA to a that report did you see as so devastat-
prosecutor in his handling of my ing to you?
personal accounts, my business and REWALD: In Channel 2's report?
my affairs. It was my expectation that Well, I had been told about it by an
an administrator or trustee would step employee who ovefheard it. And it
in and just do whatever was necessary sounded like it was focused an awful
in liquidating assets and bringing lot on me. I watched it that night, and
 Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90BO137OR001201650031-3
the CIA on the investors' behalf. Are
you just going to sue the CIA on your
own behalf? Or are you still thinking
things over?
REWALD: This hasif: affected the
lawsuit at all. We've sued the CIA on
behalf of Ron Rewald,. on behalf of
my wife, on behalf of my children.
We also did it on behalf of the
employees and the investors. All this
has done ' is said that the poor
investors are out of the picture. In
fact, I would not have sued the CIA if
it wasn't for the investors. Under
absolutely no circumstance would I
have sued the CIA on behalf of my
wife and my children. If arrange-
ments could have been made to
return the money to the investors,
that would have been fine. That's all I
cared about. Even though, because
of the trustee's efforts, the investors
are not included in this lawsuit at the
present time, I'm still suing the CIA
and telling the investors that any
money we recover is going to go to
them.
HONOLULU: Attorneys like Melvin
Belli cost a lot of money. How are
your lawyers getting paid?
REWALD: They're on a contingency
basis. First of all, the attorneys who
are involved in this are Melvin Belli,
Rod Klein of Sacramento and Rob-
ert Smith. All of these attorneys have
seen enough information or they
wouldn't have done something like
this. They're not publicity seekers,
they're not out just to make a name
for themselves. I'm sure they wouldn't
have approached this if they didn't
feel they would eventually win.
HONOLULU: You mean get paid?
REWALD: That's right.
HONOLULU: Right now they're not
getting paid?
REWALD: It's a tremendous expense
on their part. These attorneys have
committed an awful lot of money to
this effort. And these are not ignorant
men.
HONOLULU: When do you think the
criminal case will come to trial?
REWALD: So much of the informa-
tion we need is from people who were
in business with us. partners, business
associates, employees-many of
whom are in other countries. These
are not things that can be gotten by
going around town and picking up
pieces of paper.and setting up the
case. I believe a fair estimate on the
part of my attorneys is that it will
take them a year-and-a-halfjust to get
everything together-that is, if they
have the finances available. You
know, with $6,000 (the maximum for
Rewald's court-appointed criminal
attorney, Samuel P. King Jr.] you
can't very well go to Indonesia and
do much work.
HONOLULU: On the subject of
foreign countries-were you in
Argentina during the Falklands crisis?
REWALD: Yes.
HONOLULU: Can you tell us what
you were doing there?
REWALD: Just that it was business-
related. I can't give you any details on
that.
HONOLULU: Was Bishop Baldwin a
"... I never carried the ball
in the game. The most I
ever did was run down the
field and tackle some-
body..."
middleman for a Taiwan arms deal?
REWALD: I'm not free to discuss
that.
HONOLULU: Have you ever met
CIA chief William Casey?
REWALD: I couldn't discuss that
either.
HONOLULU: Have you ever met
former CIA chief Stansfield Turner?
REWALD: I can't discuss that.
HONOLULU: Did you ever meet
George Bush when he was head of the
CIA?
REWALD: Again. I can't comment
on that.
HONOLULU: What about Enrique
Zobel? He's been in Hawaii at the
polo club...
REWALD: Yes.
HONOLULU: What was the relation-
ship between Zobel and yourself or
Zobel and Bishop Baldwin'?
REWALD: I can't discuss that either.
HONOLULU: What was your rela-
tionship with the sultan of Brunei? I
assume it has to do with oil-
REWALD: We were establishing a
very close relationship. When he was
here, 1 had dinner with him several
times but I can't go into any details
about what we were working on.
HONOLULU: Was Nugan Hand Inc.
-the Australian bank and invest-
ment company whose investors lost
millions when its founder apparently
killed himself and the company col-
lapsed-connected to the CIA?
REWALD: I can't discuss it.
HONOLULU: Did you have anything
to do with stealing the plans for the
HSST-the Japanese High Speed
Surface Transport train?
REWALD: l have no comment on
that.
HONOLULU: Maybe we should
change gears and talk about your
football career...
REWALD: Yeah, sure.
HONOLULU: Did you go to South
Division High School in Milwaukee?
REWALD: Yes.
HONOLULU: Were you on the foot-
ball and track teams there?
REWALD: I was out for football for
three years. 1 only attended there for
three years. I believe I went out for
track one season and swimming one
season.
HONOLULU: You're listed as one of
the 10 free agents on a 22-person
rookie roster for the Cleveland
Browns in 1965. How did you get to
be on that roster? What kind of
tryouts did you have to go through?
REWALD: They timed me, my speed.
I don't remember all the details of it
but basically they were looking for
running backs. I guess they had some
injuries or something of that nature.
HONOLULU: How would you de-
scribe yourself as a football player?
REWALD: 1 thought I was great-
until I reported to camp and found
out that I wasn't. I never was a good
football player. I think that with a lot
of hard work and determination I
probably could have bounced around
from one team to another and stayed
on. They used to have something
called "taxi squads- in those days. I
think that I probably could have
always maintained some ability to
stay on one team's taxi squad. and
get on a specialty team from time to
time. But that's about the full poten-
tial I had.
I never really pretended-regard-
less of what's been said-to be a star
football player. In fact, shortly after
78 1 didn't even follow football that
much, since the few people I knew
who were active in it stopped playing.
I couldn't even tell you who the
champions are today. I don't know.
HONOLULU: Did you ever play in an
exhibition-season football game in
the National Football League or the
American Football League'?
REWALD: Surely, yes.
HONOLULU: How about
season games?
regular-
REWALD:I played acoupletimeson
specialty teams but I never got to
carry the ball.
60 HONOLULU, Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90BO1370R001201650031-3
 Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90B01370R001201650031-3
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HONOLULU:. With what., team did
you play? . -
REWALD: With. Kansas. City and
with Baltimore.
HONOLULU: According to an article
in Money magazine, your high school
football coach said you had "limited
abilities as an athlete." The article
also said you rarely played in games
and did not win a varsity letter. Is this
true?
REWALD: It's not as simple as that.
First of all, there was a policy in the
school that if you drove a car you
could not get a letter. And I drove a
car. Athletes were expected to walk,
no matter where they lived. But I did
drive a car and I wasn't eligible for a
letter. That's fine. I thought I was a
very good football player. And I
thought I played a significant amount.
I was not the school's football star,
but I did not pretend to be. In fact, I
grew an awful lot after high school
and my speed picked up after high
school. I joined the Milwaukee Track
Club and probably developed more
as an athlete after that.
HONOLULU: All of the newspaper
clips that we have about your foot-
ball career are clips about you
signing with a team or joining a
roster. Why are there no accounts of
you actually playing in games?
REWALD: I never carried the ball in
the game. The most I ever did was
run down the field and tackle some-
body. I admit that that's absolutely
true. Again, I want it to be made
perfectly clear that I did not go
around telling people I was a great
football' star, because that's abso-
lutely not the case. If it had not been
for my children's scrapbook-my
son's scrapbook-[ wouldn't have
found anything that even said that I
was a football player. Because I've
never kept anything.
HONOLULU: Like these clips?
REWALD: Yes. Regardless of what's
been said, you did not find football
trophies in my office, or plaques, or
team pictures, or anything like that.
Now my son has a lot of this because
it meant a lot to him, because he's a
football player. It meant nothing to
me.
HONOLULU: Speaking of no tro-
phies being in your office, what
about the two Marquette degrees
that were on the wall?
REWALD: Now that's something
that I can't discuss because it involves
other work that was going on.
HONOLULU: You have told various
people.tt?.st jtou. went to Marquette?'
REWALD:I'm sure I did. ...
HONOLULU: But that's not true?
REWALD: I'm not saying that I
didn't go to Marquette.
HONOLULU: Did you ever enroll at
Marquette University?
REWALD: As a matter of fact I did
attend Marquette, but not the years
and the places and so on that have
been identified. I don't want to
confuse you. I don't want to make it
sound like it's some great secret. The
fact of the matter is, it's an area that
would be easier for me to say, "No, I
didn't"-and end it there. The fact is,
I did. But it's not been identified yet.'
HONOLULU: Do you have a college
degree?
REWALD: We're in the same area
again. I can tell you that I attended
MIT, that I did indeed attend Mar-
quette. That I did have a couple of
years of law school. That I had
education other than what's been
identified. But I can't give you any
details on that at this particular time.
I'm afraid it will all come out soon
enough.
HONOLULU: What are you doing
about looking for work these days?
Are you reading newspaper ads?
REWALD: I am. And I've talked to a
number of people. I'm restricted at
the present time to not going into the
investment consultant or advisory
area, and surprisingly these are the
only people who are calling me. I get
calls from people who want me to
work for them behind the scenes in
this area. But we have an agreement
with the Securities Exchange Com-
mission that I won't do, that. So that
narrows it down a little for me. But I
wouldn't care: I would do anything,
just anything.
HONOLULU: What is it like for you
now to be walking around down-
town? What kind of reactions do you
get? Do people say, "Hi, Ron," or do
they sneer? Do they smile? Do they
recognize you?
REWALD: I think you'd be very, very
surprised: I was. At first, I had no
idea what to expect. I had been
reading many of the articles; my
attorneys would bring me copies of
what was in the press. It was just
An interesting aside here involves Rewald's
football career. On a 1965 Cleveland Browns
rookie roster Rewald is listed as 23 )ears old
with an educational background of no
college." But on a 1%7 Baltimore Colts rookie
roster Rewald is listed as 22 years old and gives
as his college Marquette.
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 Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90BO137OR001201650031-3
week, month after month. When I.
came out of that prison I was
surrounded by bodyguards and they
moved me every single night for four
or five days and the1twere sure that
just setting foot on the street would
be the end for me.
HONOLULU: Who supplied the
bodyguards?
REWALD: These were friends and
relatives who just were frightened for
me. And then one day I just said,
"Look. 1 can't take this anymore,"
and I just took the elevator out of
Bob Smith's office when everybody
had turned around, and went walking
up Bishop Street to the end and back
down through Fort Street Mall. And
it was just the opposite. People were
coming over and saying hello, and
shaking my hand and patting me on
the back and telling me to hang in
there. I'm sure that there are a great
number of people out there who
would like to get a baseball bat and
meet me on the street, but I haven't
run into those. And, you know, cars
will stop and people will wave and
just tell me to hang tough or stay in
there and keep fighting. I don't know
even earn a living when this whole
thing is over.
HONOLULU: A lot of people were
afraid that if you got your bail, you'd
skip town.
REWALD: No one who knew me
thought that.
HONOLULU: There were also rumors
of Lear jets warming up at the
airport. loaded with millions::.
REWALD: I've got about $6 n my
pocket, and that's every penny I own.
I've got a lot of passes that people
give me from Burger King. I've got
about three of those left, so I can get
free burgers, but once these passes
are gone (shows Burger King pass]
!'m going to have problems.
HONOLULU: If you do go back to
prison for, say, another five or 10 or
20 years. can you survive now with
the strength of your-
REWALD: Well, first of all, I won't
be.
HONOLULU: Are you sure?
REWALD: Yes.
HONOLULU: Can you say why
why that is; I can't explain it. If I had-
read the papers and watched televi-
sion and listened to all this stuff for
six months, I wouldn't be saying hi to
this guy and telling him to hang in
there. I'd probably tell him to move
to another country or something like
that.
HONOLULU: If. when all the legal
battles are over, you're eventually
acquitted, what do you think you'd
like to do?
REWALD: Just lead a very, very
simple, private life with my family.
That's all I care about doing.
HONOLULU: In Hawaii?
REWALD: I would like that, except
I'm afraid I'm such a public figure
here that that may not be possible.
Right now I want very, very much to
have my family back here. I don't
know how they'll react. All my meals
these days are at McDonald's or Big
Boy or Burger King. I can't even go
into places like that without people
wanting to talk to me. I don't know
how my family will react to this type
of thing; it's not something we ever
had. I just don't know how it would
be. I love Hawaii. 1 don't know what
the opportunities would be here to
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U Approved For Release 2008/10/30: CIA-RDP90BO137OR001201650031-3