AL-QADHDHAFI SEES DIALOGUE POSSIBLE WITH U.S.

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400390020-1
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 6
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 31, 2012
• Sequence Number: 20
• Publication Date: July 14, 1982
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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AL-QADHDHAFI SEES DIALOGUE POSSIBLE WITH U.S.
PM160933 Rome LA REPUBBLICA in Italian 14 Jul 82 pp 2-3
[Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi "July" interview at Bab al-Zizia with Massimo Rival
[Excerpt] Tripoli, July [date as received] -- [Question] Mr. President, you recently caused.
worldwide shock and surprise with a statement concerning Lebanon, in'which you urged the
Palestinians to commit mass suicide. Would you care to clarify the political meaning of
your proposal and your stand on the Lebanese question?
[Answer] I believe the Israelis had not the slightest right to enter Lebanon to impose
their might in a relationship that concerns only the Lebanese and Palestinians. It is an
outright aggression that sets a very serious precedent, especially if the Israelis are allowed
to negotiate and to mediate in relations between that country's internal Arab sides. Israel
absolutely cannot have such a right, nor is it conceivable to resolve the problem of relations
between Palestinians and Lebanese under the weight of Israeli occupation.
[Question] You mentioned a very serious precedent. Why? Who could imitate it?
[Answer] If the world were to accept actions similar to the Israeli aggression in Lebanon,
then every country with opponents in other states would be legitimized in invading those
states to eliminate its opponents. So we too, who also have our opponents, whom we consider
terrorists and who hide in Rome, for instance, could assume the right to attack your capital,
to demand that they leave and to decide ourselves the nature of their relations with Italian
citizens.
[Question] You have raised a major problem, that is already full of precedents, however.
In the past, in Europe and in Italy, there have been several reasons to believe that sub-
stantial backing for Western terrorism has come directly from the Arab countries and from
Palestinian organizations. As far as you are concerned, what do you have to say in this
regard?
[Answer] I have never promoted any such organization. I believe these are revolutionary
movements that manage themselves autonomously. Nevertheless, you Westerners have regarded
us as terrorists and so you have encircled us economically by placing a tough embargo on us.
Whereas, now that the Israelis are committing twofold violence, you have not imposed any
economic or military sanctions on them.
[Question] I would like a political appraisal of Israel's initiative. Why did the Israelis
choose this particular moment to attack in Lebanon?
[Answer] Because theri is an agreement among Saudi Arabia, King Husayn of Jordan, Iraq,
the Palestinian right and King Hassan of Morocco to permit this action at a time when the
Iraqi regime is on the brink of collapse....
[Question] Very well, they were on Israel's side. But what about the other Arab countries?
What have they done for the Palestinians? The outside impression is that Arab solidarity is
lacking this time; isn't this so?
[Answer] There is no revolutionary force in the Arab world at present.
[Question] What, not even in Libya?
[Answer] Only the Jamahiriyah, perhaps South Yemen, the Polisario Front, the progressive
Lebanese movements and the Palestinian left. However, as far as the rest are concerned,
they are all reactionaries, hostile to human freedoms and rights. Therefore, they support
this Israeli aggression that aims to eliminate human rights and freedoms.
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V. 20 Jul 82 Q 6
[Question] You have said in the past that in the event of a U.S. aggression Libya would
request the Soviet Union's aid. However, doesn't it seem to you that in Lebanon's case
the Soviets have shown very little solidarity with the victims of the aggression?
[Answer] I agree with you.
[Question] So in the event of an attack, from whom would Libya request assistance?
[Answer] That is an entirely different question....
[Question] In other words, you believe the USSR would hasten to support Libya?
[Answer] The protagonist of the aggression at this moment is Israel. In the event of a
direct U.S. attack on Libya, the Soviet Union would not stand by with its hands tied.
[Question] Aren't you afraid, following the events in Lebanon, that there could be or
could come to be a secret understanding between Moscow and Washington to restore an agreed
order in the Middle East?
[Question] So I imagine you are rather worried by the announcement that there could be a
direct meeting between Brezhnev and Reagan in a few months' time?
[Answer] This meeting could be very profitable, but could also prove to be to the detriment
of other peoples.
[Question] Which peoples in particular?
[Answer] The small peoples, the ones outside the Atlantic and Warsaw Pacts.
[Question] If I remember correctly, you once said that, if necessary, Libya might request
membership in the Warsaw Pact. Is such a plan still topical?
[Answer] Nothing is unchangeable in politics.
[Question] I would like to move on to relations with the United States. A Koranic maxim
states, more or less: Converse peacefully with your enemy, because you could discover that
he is a friend. Would you be prepared to follow this teaching with regard to Reagan?
[Answer] Libya occupies no U.S. territory. Therefore, there is no reason for war and
it is possible to hold discussions. This is why we issue continual invitations; we are
always willing to negotiate with the United States.
[Question] So would you be prepared to meet with Reagan at any time?
[Answer] Yes, why not?
[Question] Some time ago, Washington announced further naval maneuvers in the Gulf of
Sidra, but then nothing more was heard. Do you believe they will be held?
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[Answer] Whatever happens, any naval maneuver in the Gulf of Sidra would mean war.
[Question] On the part of Libya alone?
[Answer] It is entirely premature to discuss it, but obviously Libya will defend its
territory.
[Question] Let's return to the Soviet Union. At one time, it was said there were many
Soviets in Libya; are there still so many here?
[Answer] No, but which Soviets do you mean?
[Question] Libya has made major arms purchases from the Soviet Union and many "instructors"
came alone with these weapons. Isn't this so?
[Answer] Yes, there are some here as instructors. However, there are many more Americans
in Libya now than Soviets.
[Question] What are these Americans doing?
[Answer] Civilian activities, mainly in the oil sector.
[Question] Your recent visit to Vienna created the impression that you are seeking new
relations with Europe. What kind of relations?
[Answer] I want to establish peaceful, profitable, normal and equitable relations. This
requires that Europeans understand us better. I believe we can only understand each other
by means of direct contacts and exchanges of visits, whereas we now know each other only
through the voice of a propaganda that is dominated by Zionism in Europe too. You must
understand that the Zionists' aim is to create enmity between Arabs and Europeans, between
Arabs and Americans, to manipulate this hostility for its own ulterior motives. In..any case,
the aim of U.S. policy is also to ruin relations between Arabs and Eurpeans for its own ends.
[Question] It really does not seem to me that European public opinion is dominated by
Zionist propaganda. You undoubtedly are aware, for instance, that very many Jews in Italy
have publicly and very severely condemned the Israeli attack in Lebanon....
[Answer] Of course I know. I am also sure that through their behavior the Israelis them-
selves will convince the entire world that they are the only threat to peace, because they
are evil on this earth. They will be the cause of world war III.
[Question] What proposals can you make to avoid such a catastrophic prospect? In your
opinion, on what principles should a peace plan for Lebanon and the Middle East be based?
[Answer] In the present situation in Lebanon, all that can be done is to combat the Israeli
forces of aggression until they are forced to withdraw. As for the pacification of the Middle
East, it can only result from Israel's disarmament and from the return of the Jews who
emigrated to Palestine after 1948 to their countries of origin.
[Question] These do not seem to me very practicable conditions. Be that as it may, would
you then be willing to recognize the State of Israel and to maintain normal diplomatic
relations?
[Answer] When a democratic state has been established in Palestine, of course it will have
to be recognized.
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[Question] Do you mean, essentially, a state in which Jews and Palestinians will coexist?
[Answer] Precisely, Jews and Palestinians together.
[Question] For some time there has been talk of your visiting Rome. What has hindered
the realization of this plan?
[Answer] For my part, I am awaiting an answer on the question of compensation for the
damages suffered by the Libyan people as- a result of the Italian colonial war. However,
as far as you are concerned, the United States must lift its veto on my visiting Italy.
[Question] Do you seriously believe that the Italian Government is so dominated by the
United States that it is unable to decide autonomously whom to invite to its own country?
[Answer] That is what were were told: that the United States formally asked Italy not
to receive me. We were offically informed of it.
[Question] By the Italian Government?
[Answer] By the official bodies concerned.
[Question] I can only take note of what you say. As for the question of war damage
compensation, what is the situation?
[Answer] The problem is being examined by the United Nations.
[Question] At present, however, there is also an economic dispute in the opposite
direction. There is a crisis in trade relations between Italy and Libya: Many payments
have been stopped and many contracts are in jeopardy. What terms does Libya want to set
for normalization of trading relations between our countries?
[Answer] The cause of these difficulties is U.S. policy, which is ruining our bilateral
relations for the sake of its own interests. The embargo on Libyan oil deprives all
European countries with which we have dealings of major profitable opportunities.
[Question] Isn't there a possibility for improvement in Italian-Libyan trade in the near
future?
[Answer] Yes, it is possible, but only if the situation regarding our oil sales improves.
[Question] Are you pleased with Libya's investment in Fiat?
[Answer] Yes, I am.
[Question] Are you planning any futher investments?
[Answer] Yes, I hope to continue along this path.
[Question] What do you think of [Fiat chief] the big capitalist Gianni Agnelli?
[Answer] He seems to me someone who has fully succeeded in his work.
[Question] What do you think about the Fiat workers? I am curious to know whether you
would offer Fiat workers the chance to become shareholders in the company, which is
the theory you advance for all workers in your "Green-Book."
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[Answer] Of course I encourage them to become shareholders in the company.
[Question] Have you ever discussed this with Agnelli?
[Answer] I met with Agnelli..only-once, in Moscow, for a few minutes. But if I saw him again
I would undoubtedly talk to him about it.
[Question] Let's discuss Libya's future. Oil sales and relative currency receipts have
fallen greatly compared to a few years ago. What options will you take -- further major
arms purchases or greater civilian investments? In other words, as we say in Italy, will
you choose butter or guns?
[Answer] Of course butter is better than guns. Like all other countries, we too are trying
to have more butter. However, we could be forced to buy guns to defend ourselves against
those who want to steal our butter.
[Question] Oil is a limited resource, even for Libya. Let's suppose that your country has
another 30 years of high oil output ahead of it. You are now 40 and by then you will be 70
What kind of legacy would you like to bequeath to your country's future generations?
[Answer] As far as a material legacy is concerned, our task is to find an alternative to
oil, using it as a factor of industrial and more general economic development. Of course,
we will try to control the consumption and production of oil so that it lasts as long as
possible. However, my main concern is that the Libyan people maintain their freedom, because
this is the first time these people have been free, without being ruled, with power in their
own hands.
[Question] Was there never a time when you suspected that you might not succeed, might not
manage to attain your set objective?
[Answer] This is of no importance. I believe a man must do what he can in the direction
of the objectives he considers correct....
[Question] I understand. Do what you can, come what may. It is a very secular attitude,
spread by European culture....
[Answer] I know, I know.
[Question] You don't like the West's parliamentary democracies, however. You preach the
power of the masses, the people's self-government. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the
Libyan People's General Congress meets only once a year. So doesn't the main difference with
European parliamentarianism perhaps lie in the fact that this prevents the formation of an
explicit political opposition in Libya?
[Answer] It is difficult to discuss Libya's political system if such simplifications are
made. For one thing, there is not only the People's General Congress, but also the people's
congresses in all locations, in which everyone participates. Opposition emerges with the
sole aim of attaining power, but in the Libyan system all power is in the people's hands.
Therefore, opposition no longer has any raison d'etre. Ours is a new system. As the French
Revolution began the era of republics and of the bourgeoisie, now the era of the masses has
begun. Libya is the milestone of this new era, with the system of the Jamahiriyah, of the
self-government of the masses.
[Question] Europe has not succeeded in exporting its political system to African countries.
Do you think the Libyan model can spread to Europe, however?
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[Answer] The old European ideas, the Eastern ideas and the Islamic ideals: They will all
fail. The political system of the Jamahiriyah will be the shared objective of all peoples,
both in the West and in the East.
[Answer] The events now occurring in the world show that the people's masses are advancing
toward power to establish the system of the Jamahiriyah, of self-government. Basically, party
pluralism too is a pointer toward the system of people's power. However, you must return to
Libya. On another occasion, we must discuss at greater length this political system of ours.
,AL-QADHDHAFI RECEIVES PRC AMBASSADOR 17 JULY
LD 1410 Tripoli Domestic Service in Arabic 1230 GMT 18 Jul 82
[Text] The brother leader of the revolution yesterday received the PRC ambassador to the
Jamahir ah and gave him an important message for the Chinese leadership and government.
SUDAN
NUMAYRI DESCR BES TALKS WITH MUBARAK, FAHD
JN191843 KhartolIT SUNA in Arabic 1720 GMT 19 Jul 82
[Text] Khartoum, Jul (SUNA) -- President Ja'far Muhammad Numayri and Mrs Numayri returned
home this morning f lowing a tour of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. While there, President Numayri
held talks with Egypt'an President Muhammad Husni Mubarak and Saudi King Fahd ibn 'Abd
al-'Aziz. During his -week visit, the president performed the minor pilgrimage in the holy
places in Saudi Arabia.
Speaking to a SUNA corresp
president commented on the d
forts exerted by Egypt and Saudi Arabia to contain the volatile
that following his meetings with President Mubarak and King
situation in Lebanon. He sai
Fahd he became acquainted with t
the nonexistence of direct bilate
e two countries' efforts in this regard and found that despite
1 relations they agree on the importance of securing
the PLO's safety, ensuring an honora
taining the Palestinian Revolution.
The president added that Saudi Arabia is rking through contacts with the United States and
some Arab countries as well as other supers ers that are accepted in the region. Meanwhile,
Egypt is working through its diplomacy and co tacts with the superpowers. He added that these
efforts are progressing in an appropriate manne and have frequently managed to contain many
of the crisis' sides. Were it not for Saudi Arabia, water and power would have not been
restored to Beirut, President Numayri said.
The president stressed that Saudi Arabia is now pressu
similarly will pressure Israel to end its war activities
forces from Lebanon.
Asked about the role of Sudanese diplomacy to support Egypt's
president said he hopes President Mubarak's initiative will su
ranks before it is too late and in drawing a new strategy for th
underlined the importance of drawing plans for the future instead
reactions and temporary decisions. The president reasserted that S
Arab summit, particularly if this summit is only a reaction to what i
now happening. Sudan,
y for the future and
the president stressed, prefers to hold an Arab summit to set up strat
to reorganize ourselves in an influential manner.
eed in gathering the Arab
future. The president
f being satisfied with
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