LETTER TO PETE HILL FROM (SANITIZED)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90G01353R001900060001-9
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 37
• Document Creation Date: December 27, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 28, 2012
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: December 9, 1988
• Content Type: LETTER

STAT
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//?~' 71 'F_\\ -- -- .. __... - - -- - v ~~- - 0 0 --1 W' v A,3
WASHINGTON, D. C. 20505
PUBLIC AFFAIRS
Phone: [phone]
STAT
We are in receipt of your letter of 4 November, containing a copy of your
letter of 4 September which, unfortunately, never reached us. We regret the
delay in responding to your concerns. Judge Webster has asked me to review
your letter and provide information to you.
State-sponsored terrorism includes, among other things, activity carried
out by a government to hide terrorists within its borders, provide them with
training, equipment or other resources, and give them passports or other
documentation to facilitate their travel outside the sponsoring country.
Terrorism--the use of mindless violence aganst innocent victims--usually takes
the form of criminal activity.
Covert action is undertaken by the US government in furtherance of
approved and accepted foreign policy. We are asked to undertake such
activity, from time to time, because of the unique capabilities we maintain
within our organization. Covert action is not terrorism, but rather includes
practices that comply fully with US law.
I can assure you that any covert action undertaken by the CIA is carefully
scrutinized and discussed before it is implemented. It requires that the
President issue a written finding directing its use and careful briefing of
the Intelligence Oversight Committees of the Congress. These measures ensure
that the covert action is a sensible, practical and legal option for the US to
use.
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Ltr to Mr. Pete Hill
Page 2
I suggest, if you continue to feel uncertain about covert action, that you
write to the Oversight Committees of the Congress to obtain additional
information. Their addresses are:
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
211 Senate Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Room H405
The Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
STAT
Sincerely,
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EXECUTIVE SECRETARIAT
ROUTING SLIP
15
STAT
EXDIR
DDA
22
SUSPENSE
Remarks
FS has no record of any previous correspondence
transmitting Mr. Pete Hill's letter; or any
previous correspondence from Mr. Hill.
ER 88-1610X/3
29.1 ov '.88
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The American Legion
Vatk~~i~~ 11 .
E38 in RGgrstY _
88-161OX/3
Mr. Hill's September 4 letter was forwarded
to your office on September 17. Would
appreciate your having someone in your
office respond to Mr. Hill.
Thank you.
Mike La Bonne, Editor
The American Legion Magazine
P. 0. Box 1055
Indianapolis, IN 46206
P-3 0
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4 November 1988
William H. Webster, Director
Central Intelligence Agency
c/o the American Legion Magazine
700 N Pennsylvania St.
PO Box 1055
Indianapolis, IN 46206
Dear William Webster:
Two months ago I wrote you the enclosed letter, consequenct upon reading
your interesting article in the American Legion Magazine. Because I
haven't received a response from you, I wonder whether you did not in fact
receive my letter. Hence a copy is attached. I look forward to your
response.
Sincerely,
STAT
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4 September 1988
William H. Webster, Director
Central Intelligence Agency
c/o the American Legion Magazine
700 N Pennsylvania St.
PO Box 1055
Indianapolis, IN 46206
Dear William Webster:
In your interview in the September American Legion Magazine, I was
particularly struck by your statement that state sponsored terrorism
represents a challenge.
I didn't get a sense of what you included within the idea of "terrorism",
and I'd like to ask you how you to define it, especially that which is
state sponsored. You state that covert action is essential if we are to
implement our foreign policy in helping revolutionary movements and
countries we support. do you make distinctions between covert actions
which the US (via the CIA) carries out and those which other countries
carry out? If our covert actions result in the killing of people in
countries with which we are not at war, can that be distinguished (in terms
of what is and isn't terrorism) from such killings instigated by other
countries - especially those with which we have significant disagreements?
I'lit concerned about this matter because I read a lot about terrorism. I
also hear a lot about "covert actions". How can I make distinctions?
You note that you are not free to talk about current covert actions, so I
wonder whether you'd care to comment about some past ones, such as the
de-stabilization of the governments of Chile, the Dominican Republic, Iran?
(I selected these because they are well known and involve, I understand,
the use of violence. I suspect that a lot of covert actions do not include
uses of violence).
In explaining the role of covert operations you indicate that they are
necessary for the carrying out of US foreign policy. This is also unclear
to me. What - again in the past - are examples of US foreign policy that
couldn't be implemented without covert actions? (and how did covert
actions have crucial effect in achieving US forieng policy aims?).
I look forward to your response, as this is a matter I hold to be important
to understanding our current situation in the world of the 1980's.
Sincerely,
STAT
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EXECUTIVE SECRETARIAT
ROUTING SLIP
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STAT
23 Sept. '88
Date
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-I^00 -J&00(6)(
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
PUBLIC AFFAIRS
Phone: [phone]
11 October 1988
Mr. Martin A. Witt
Computer Security Institute
360 Church Street
Northborough, MA 01532
Dear Mr.. Witt:
.Thank you for your recent letter to the Director of Central Intelligence.
We appreciate your support of the Agency and consider your words of
encouragement to be an endorsement of all here who have dedicatea their lives
to the service of their country.
Sincerely,
STAT
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STAT
Sincerely,
Mr. William H. Webster.
Director
Central Intelligence Agency
Langley, VA
September 13, 1988
I just finished reading your comments in the interview
article published in the September issue of the American
Legion Ma,ga
I wanted you to know that your candid comments were
appreciated. Many American citizens too often neglect to
write to Congressmen, Senators, etc., to make our opinions
known. As a veteran, a Legionnaire and a citizen, I wanted
you to know that the Central Intelligence Agency has my full
support.
I believe that the CIA is doing the best possible job that
can be done considering the rules and regulations under
which it must operate. I have no doubts that the majority
of CIA personnel are dedicated, courageous people. I only
hope that one day most Americans will know about the untold
sacrifices many of your employees endure each day.
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AT" IN
ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET
SUBJECT: (Optional)
Letter to Mr. Michael D. LaBonne - Editor, The American Legion
Magazine
FROM: William M. Baker W
>
EXTENSION
No.
i
Director, Public Affairs
PAO 88-0305
2-7676
GATE
31 August 1988
TO: (Officer designation, room number, and
DATE
building)
OFFICER'S
COMMENTS (Number each comment to show f
h
RECEIVED
FORWARDED
INITIALS
rom w
om
to whom. Draw a line across column after each comment.)
1.
ER
0 1 S
P 1988
2.
3.
DCI
ff
4.
5.
PAO
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
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15.
!
EXEC
REG
FORM USE Pt
1-79
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31 August 1988
Michael La Bonne, Editor of The American Legion magazine sent you two
copies of the September 1988 issue opposite which contains an interview with
you entitled, "Covert Operations: 'Some Things Can't Be Done in Public'." It
begins on Page 24 and outlines your views on the need for covert operations as
well as an explanation of the controls on such activities. I recommend that
you sign the attached letter of thanks to the Editor, Michael D. La Bonne. We
have circulated the article in our news clips.
STAT
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~ It " D o v .w -/ r
Central Intelligence Agency
0 6 SEP 1988,
Mr. Michael D. La Bonne
Editor, The American Legion Magazine
PO Box 1055
Indianapolis, Indiana 46206-1055
Dear Mr. La Bonne:
Thank you for your letter of August 21, 1988 and the copies of The
American Legion. It was a real pleasure to work with Jim Sites on this effort
and I appreciate very much the care with which you presented the interview.
This is an important message and I know it will reach an interested audience.
I wish you continued success in your support for America's military veterans.
Sincerely yours,
Is! William H. Webs=
William H. Webster
Director of Central Intelligence
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LxeCuuye KeQiSify t
THE AMERICAN
c4
44
EGION
1, MAGAZINE
August 21, 1988
The Honorable William H. Webster
Director
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C. 20505
Dear Director Webster:
The American Legion Magazine is pleased to enclose three copies of your
interview, "Covert Operations: 'Some Things Can't Be Done In Public,"' which
is appearing in our September issue.
Thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to provide this
enlightening interview. We're sure our readers will find it most informative.
Sincerely yours,
a ?camln
MICHAEL La BONNE
Editor
Enclosure (3)
P.O. BOX 1055 ? INDIANAPOLIS. INDIANA 46206-1055 ? [phone]
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 I Fuecutlve Registry I
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88-1610X/1
60 THE ,1MER/CAN
EGION
MAGAZINE
INDIANAPOLIS. INDIANA 46206-1055 - [phone]
August 21, 1988
The Honorable William H. Webster
Director
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C. 20505
Dear Director Webster:
The American Legion Magazine is pleased to enclose three copies of your
interview, "Covert Operations: 'Some Things Can't Be Done In Public,'" which
is appearing in our September issue.
Thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to provide this
enlightening interview. We're sure our readers will find it most informative.
Sincerely yours,
A
MICHAEL La BONNE
Editor
.Enclosure (3)
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INTERVIEW
'SOME THINGS CAN'T BE DONE IN PUBLIC'
Criticized for its failures, yet unable to reveal most
successes, the CIA seems to be in a Catch-22 situation.
But congressional oversight committees can vouch for
our good work," says CIA Director William H. Webster.
American Legion Magazine: Have congressional
restrictions arising from the Iran-Contra investigation
seriously weakened the CIA and its operations abroad?
William Webster: Not so far. But there are several
unnecessary proposals that would raise serious questions
from our foreign counterparts and others who count on us to
protect their confidentiality. I have given testimony on my
views to various committees of Congress. I hope that these
proposals will be substantially improved before they are
passed, insofar as they concern our ability to function.
I don't think that the Iran-Contra investigation has
resulted in changes that make it impossible for us to do our
job. You have to remember that the CIA was not the principal
focus of attention in that investigation - the National
Security Council was, and its activities involved some
members of the CIA. The rules that we have are good rules,
and we continue to follow them scrupulously.
Q: So no major changes need to be made?
No. But we adopted several new procedures that are
A: designed to better guide our officers in the field and at
headquarters. Among them are clearer rules for congres-
sional testimony and the reorganization of the inspector
general's office. I think that these new procedures will
increase the trust between Congress and the CIA. With that
increased trust will come a better working relationship.
Q: It has been said that you can have either covert opera-
tions or congressional oversight, but not both. Is that
true?
I don't think it is true that congressional oversight means
A: that we cannot conduct covert activity. Congressional
oversight can be very useful to us. If a covert action doesn't
make sense to the representatives of the American people, it
is very likely not going to make sense to the American people
when it becomes public - and that is where we've gotten
into trouble in the past.
This doesn't mean that Congress tells us what to do or how
to do it, but the oversight committees do have a consultative
role. I think that we can work with them.
0: Are you worried about leaks on Capitol Hill?
The more people who have to know about an operation,
A: the more likely it is that there are going to be disclosures.
Details on covert action and the identities of sources can be
protected from normal congressional oversight. The intelli-
gence committees' chairmen and vice chairmen have been
quite helpful in keeping questions on those sensitive areas
from becoming issues between us.
Q: Do you think covert operations are essential to U.S.
security and interests?
Covert action is essential. Every president since
A: Franklin Roosevelt has used it.
I want to emphasize that covert action represents less than
3 percent of our resources. But when we are called on to help
an insurgent group that is seeking democratic progress in
another country, or to protect a friendly country from hostile
insurgent activities, it often is important that the role of the
United States not be publicly known or acknowledged.
Unless we are able to conduct covert operations, we cannot
implement the foreign policy of this country on behalf-of the
insurgent movements and countries that we support.
Q: How can those operations be controlled so as to assure
the public that they are in our interest and in accordance
with our laws?
That's where the oversight committees come in. They
A: are the surrogates for the American people and for the
rest of Congress. We share important information with those
committees; they then certify to Congress and the American
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IA agents understand
that everything they do must
be in accordance with U.S.
laws, orders and directives. 5
effort, people wonder why it wasn't done sooner.
Around the world, the Soviets are seeking information
from our embassies, our intelligence agencies and our
military. It is our job, and that of the whole intelligence
coninmunity, to provide greater protection for those who are
defending our national security.
There is room for improvement. There have been some
significant successes and some significant failures. The
breach of security at our Moscow embassy is one of those
failures. I have already reorganized our counterintelligence
program for greater effectiveness and will support the
counterintelligence work of the entire intelligence conununi-
ty.
0: How is the CIA doing in combating terrorism?
The CIA has an effective counterterrorism center. We
A: have had some significant successes that we cannot talk
about, for obvious reasons, and I am satisfied that we are
going about it in the right way.
Q: Is terrorism increasing or decreasing?
Please turn to pare 02
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William H. Webster, a.tornrer director of the FBI, became director
of the Central Intelligence Agency in May 1987.
people that we are doing what we should be doing, according
to our Constitution.
0: Are you concerned about CIA abuse of its powers?
A I am not concerned about it. because I think it's very
: clear that we are conducting our work in accordance
with our Constitution and our laws. Now, our laws don't
follow us around the world, and we have to give some agents
some flexibility. But those agents understand that everything
they do must be in accordance with U.S. laws, executive
orders and national-security directives.
0: Why are people so afraid of covert operations?
A Many people are afraid that any agency that conducts
: secret operations will do things that the public would not
want it to do. It's a normal democratic suspicion of anything
that is not open. But some things simply cannot he done in
public, and collecting intelligence is one of them.
0: The CIA has been called our front-line defense against
the Soviet Union's undeclared war on America and other
democracies. How is the CIA meeting this onslaught?
You are primarily talking about counterintelligence
A: when you ask the question in that way. I think that the
FBI has done an outstanding job of recognizing and dealing
with hostile intelligence officers in this country. It is unlirrtu-
nate that every time there is a successful counterintelligence
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INTERVIEW
Continued,fi'onl page 25
A Well, terrorism has increased
: slightly over the past couple of
years, but it has increased enormously
over the past 10 to 15 years. The
number of deaths is going up.
The use of terrorism by nations -
state-sponsored terrorism - represents
a formidable challenge to this country
and the rest of the Free World. It is a
way to get a cheap victory. Terrorists are
taking airplane passengers hostage,
blowing up official facilities and assas-
sinating people in key places around the
world.
Twenty-five percent of terrorist inci-
dents involve U.S. citizens, property or
institutions, so we are getting it full-
bore. We need to cooperate with other
freedom-loving countries in a common
front against terrorism. This front has
solidified in the past two years. Some
mistakes we made in the Iran-Contra
affair weakened it, but I think we've
patched that problem. We are again
working with our European allies to
eliminate sanctuary for terrorists.
0: Under Mikhail Gorbachev, the
Kremlin apparently has shifted from
a policy of diplomacy by intimidation
to a more cooperative stance. Is this
real, or are we simply facing a new,
dangerous form of diplomacy by
deception?
Several factors go into glasnost and
A: perestroika in the Soviet Union.
Kremlin rhetoric seems to be more
reasonable and more non-confronta-
tional, but behind the rhetoric stands
one of the world's most formidable
military establishments. There is no
indication that the Soviet Union's aspi-
rations have changed in any way.
We would deceive ourselves if we
thought that our ability to negotiate
with Gorbachev represented the end of
Soviet expansion objectives. We don't
want to kid ourselves about that.
0: Do you believe that we have suffi-
cient intelligence-gathering ability in
the Soviet Union to ensure adequate
verification of arms-control agree-
ments?
That, of course, has been the sub-
A: ject of intense study and debate. I
believe that we could provide reasona-
ble estimates on which the policy-mak-
ers can make sound judgments on the
INFTreaty.
START represents a significantly
more formidable challenge to us. Confi-
dence-building provisions such as on-
site inspection are being discussed, but
we do not yet have the certainty that I
think Congress will require before any
such treaty could be ratified.
0: There have been reports that the
Soviets are preparing to violate the
ABM Treaty by deploying a nation-
wide anti-ballistic-missile system. Do
you have any way of verifying that?
. I'm not in a position to comment
A-
on that.
0: Does criticism of the CIA affect
agents' morale and effectiveness?
No one likes to be criticized. But I
A: have been impressed not only -by
the quality of the men and women who
work in this agency - by their dedica-
tion, courage and extraordinary gifts -
but also by the quality of the young men
and women who are electing to make
intelligence their career. They are confi-
dent of the value of this work; they are
comfortable with the difficulties that
this work represents in their personal
lives and the sacrifices that they are
required to make. They are not bothered
by criticism, because they know that
the CIA is the "point man" for U.S.
foreign policy. They see in this work not
fame or fortune, but an opportunity to
realize their highest aspirations for a
safer and better world.
When you have that kind of outlook
- not zealous or narrow, but with great
capacity for intellectual growth - you
understand that criticism comes with
the territory.
0: In a way, isn't being criticized a
backhanded compliment to the
agency?
A: I think so.
0: What could Congress or the gen-
eral public do to help the CIA do a
better job of defending our way of
life?
The congressional committees are
A: in a position to reinforce the need
for intelligence and to speak up for us,
in terms of the quality of our work and
our compliance with the laws. That
would help.
We gave a thousand briefings to Con-
gress last year. Some of our top people
spend 25 percent of their time respond-
ing to congressional inquiries. If mem-
bers of Congress would vouch for our
good work, that might encourage the
public to cooperate with us. ^
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STAT
/Executive Secretary
29 Aug 88
Date
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3637 (10-81)
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CIA-RDP90GO1353R001900060001-9 RETARIAT
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Executive Secretary
.29 Aug 88
Data
ew
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CIA-RDP90GO1353 R001900060001-9 METARIAT I
ROUTING SLIP
ACTION
INFO
DATE
INITIAL
1
DCI
X W
Ma azi
ne
2
DDCI
X (W
Cy of
Interv
3
EXDIR
4
D/ICS
5
DDI
6
DDA
7
DDO
8
DDS&T
9
Chm/NIC
10
GC
11
IG
12
Compt
13
D/OCA
14
D/PAO
X W/
Cy of
ntervi
15
D/PERS
16
D/Ex Staff
17
18
19
20
21
22
Executive Secretary
29 Aug 88
Date
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JAMES N. SITES
STAT
STAT
Executive Registry
1 88-'1610X/2, !
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TO:
ACTION
INFO
D TE
INITIAL
DCI
X
$ 2S~
2
DDCI
3
EXDIR
4
D/ICS
5
DDI
6
DDA
7
DDO
8
DDS&T
9
Chm/NIC
10
GC
11
IG
12
Compt
13
D/OCA
14
D/PAO
X
15
D/PERS
16
D/Ex Staff
17
18
19
20
21
22
SUSPENSE
STAT
23 Aug '88
Date
3637 (10-81)
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Executive Registry
EGION
P.O. BOX 1055 ? INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46206-1055 ? [phone]
MAGAZINE
August 21, 1988
The Honorable William H. Webster
Director
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C. 20505
The American Legion Magazine is pleased to enclose three copies of your
interview, "Covert Operations: 'Some Things Can't Be Done In Public,"' which
is appearing in our September issue.
Thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to provide this
enlightening interview. We're sure our readers will find it most informative.
Sincerely yours,
01%~A )0&7~
MICHAEL La BONNE
Editor
Enclosure (3)
P- 30 8 =r.
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o~of,io ~~?,
e A
? +
September 1988 TWO DOLLARS
H01 SAFE ARE THEY? JE
M I I I I r
MUI 1
'In
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INTERVIEW
n
v
U
'SOME THINGS CAN'T BE DONE IN PUBLIC'
Criticized for its failures, yet unable to reveal most
successes, the CIA seems to be in a Catch-22 situation.
But congressional oversight committees "can vouch for
our good work," says CIA Director William H. Webster.
American Legion Magazine: Have congressional
restrictions arising from the Iran-Contra investigation
seriously weakened the CIA and its operations abroad?
William Webster: Not so far. But there are several
unnecessary proposals that would raise serious questions
from our foreign counterparts and others who count on us to
protect their confidentiality. I have given testimony on my
views to various committees of Congress. I hope that these
proposals will be substantially improved before they are
passed, insofar as they concern our ability to function.
I don't think that the Iran-Contra investigation has
resulted in changes that make it impossible for us to do our
job. You have to remember that the CIA was not the principal
focus of attention in that investigation - the National
Security Council was, and its activities involved some
members of the CIA. The rules that we have are good rules,
and we continue to follow them scrupulously.
0: So no major changes need to be made?
A No. But we adopted several new procedures that are
: designed to better guide our officers in the field and at
headquarters. Among them are clearer rules for congres-
sional testimony and the reorganization of the inspector
general's office. I think that these new procedures will
increase the trust between Congress and the CIA. With that
increased trust will come a better working relationship.
0: It has been said that you can have either covert opera-
tions or congressional oversight, but not both. Is that
true?
A I don't think it is true that congressional oversight means
: that we cannot conduct covert activity. Congressional
oversight can be very useful to us. If a covert action doesn't
make sense to the representatives of the American people, it
is very likely not going to make sense to the American people
when it becomes public - and that is where we've gotten
into trouble in the past.
This doesn't mean that Congress tells us what to do or how
to do it, but the oversight committees do have a consultative
role. I think that we can work with them.
Q: Are you worried about leaks on Capitol Hill?
The more people who have to know about an operation,
A: the more likely it is that there are going to be disclosures.
Details on covert action and the identities of sources can be
protected from normal congressional oversight. The intelli-
gence committees' chairmen and vice chairmen have been
quite helpful in keeping questions on those sensitive areas
from becoming issues between us.
Q: Do you think covert operations are essential to U.S.
security and interests?
Covert action is essential. Every president since
A
Franklin Roosevelt has used it.
I want to emphasize that covert action represents less than
3 percent of our resources. But when we are called on to help
an insurgent group that is seeking democratic progress in
another country, or to protect a friendly country from hostile
insurgent activities, it often is important that the role of the
United States not be publicly known or acknowledged.
Unless we are able to conduct covert operations, we cannot
implement the foreign policy of this country on behalf of the
insurgent movements and countries that we support.
0: How can those operations be controlled so as to assure
the public that they are in our interest and in accordance
with our laws?
That's where the oversight committees come in. They
A: are the surrogates for the American people and for the
rest of Congress. We share important information with those
committees; they then certify to Congress and the American
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William H. Webster, a former director of 'the FBI, became director
of the Central Intelligence Agency in May 1987.
people that we are doing what we should be doing, according
to our Constitution.
Q: Are you concerned about CIA abuse of its powers?
I am not concerned about it. because I think it's very
A: clear that we are conducting our work in accordance
with our Constitution and our laws. Now, our laws don't
follow us around the world, and we have to give some agents
some flexibility. But those agents understand that everything
they do must be in accordance with U.S. laws, executive
orders and national-security directives.
0: Why are people so afraid of covert operations?
Many people are afraid that any agency that conducts
A: secret operations will do things that the public would not
want it to do. It's a normal democratic suspicion of anything
that is not open. But some things simply cannot be done in
public, and collecting intelligence is one of them.
0: The CIA has been called our front-line defense against
the Soviet Union's undeclared war on America and other
democracies. How is the CIA meeting this onslaught?
A You are primarily talking about counterintelligence
: when you ask the question in that way. I think that the
FBI has done an outstanding job of recognizing and dealing
with hostile intelligence officers in this country. It is unfortu-
nate that every time there is a successful counterintelligence
IA agents understand
that everything they do must
be in accordance with U.S.
laws, orders and directives. 5
effort, people wonder why it wasn't done sooner.
Around the world, the Soviets are seeking information
from our embassies, our intelligence agencies and our
military. It is our job. and that of the whole intelligence
community, to provide greater protection for those who are
defending our national security.
There is room for improvement. There have been some
significant successes and some significant failures. The
breach of security at our Moscow embassy is one of those
failures. I have already reorganized our counterintelligence
program for greater effectiveness and will support the
counterintelligence work of the entire intelligence communi-
ty.
0: How is the CIA doing in combating terrorism?
The CIA has an effective counterterrorism center. We
A: have had some significant successes that we cannot talk
about, for obvious reasons, and I am satisfied that we are
going about it in the right way.
0: Is terrorism increasing or decreasing?
Please turn to page 62
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INTERVIEW
Continued %rom page 25
A Well, terrorism has increased
: slightly over the past couple'
ouple of
years, but it has increased enormously
over the past 10 to 15 years. The
number of deaths is going up.
The use of terrorism by nations -
state-sponsored terrorism - represents
a formidable challenge to this country
and the rest of the Free World. It is a
way to get a cheap victory. Terrorists are
taking airplane passengers hostage.
blowing up official facilities and assas-
sinating people in key places around the
world.
Twenty-five percent of terrorist inci-
dents involve U.S. citizens, property or
institutions, so we are getting it full-
bore. We need to cooperate with other
freedom-loving countries in a common
front against terrorism. This front has
solidified in the past two years. Some
mistakes we made in the Iran-Contra
affair weakened it, but I think we've
patched that problem. We are again
working with our European allies to
eliminate sanctuary for terrorists.
0: Under Mikhail Gorbachev, the
Kremlin apparently has shifted from
a policy of diplomacy by intimidation
to a more cooperative stance. Is this
real, or are we simply facing a new,
dangerous form of diplomacy by
deception?
Several factors go into glasnost and
A: perestroika in the Soviet Union.
Kremlin rhetoric seems to be more
reasonable and more non-confronta-
tional, but behind the rhetoric stands
one of the world's most formidable
military establishments. There is no
indication that the Soviet Union's aspi-
rations have changed in any way.
We would deceive ourselves if we
thought that our ability to negotiate
with Gorbachev represented the end of
Soviet expansion objectives. We don't
want to kid ourselves about that.
0: Do you believe that we have suffi-
cient intelligence-gathering ability in
the Soviet Union to ensure adequate
verification of arms-control agree-
ments?
That, of course, has been the sub-
A: ject of intense study and debate. I
believe that we could provide reasona-
ble estimates on which the policy-mak-
ers can make sound judgments on the
INFTreaty.
START represents a significantly
more formidable challenge to us. Confi-
dence-building provisions such as on-
site inspection are being discussed, but
we do not yet have the certainty that I
think Congress will require before an\
such treaty could be ratified.
0: 'There have been reports that the
Soviets are preparing to violate the
ABM Treaty by deploying a nation-
wide anti-ballistic-missile system. Do
you have any way of verifying that?
A: I'm not in a position to comment
on that.
0: Does criticism of the CIA affect
agents' morale and effectiveness?
No one likes to be criticized. But I
A
have been impressed not only by
the quality of the men and women who
work in this agency - by their dedica-
tion, courage and extraordinary gifts -
but also by the quality of the young men
and women who are electing to make
intelligence their career. They are confi-
dent of the value of this work. they are
comfortable with the difficulties that
this work represents in their personal
lives and the sacrifices that they are
required to make. They are not bothered
by criticism, because they know that
the CIA is the "point man" for U.S.
foreign policy. They see in this work not
fame or fortune, but an opportunity to
realize their highest aspirations for a
safer and better world.
When you have that kind of outlook
- not zealous or narrow, but with great
capacity for intellectual growth - you
understand that criticism comes with
the territory.
0: In a way, isn't being criticized a
backhanded compliment to the
agency?
A: I think so.
0: What could Congress or the gen-
eral public do to help the CIA do a
better job of defending our way of
life?
The congressional committees are
A: in a position to reinforce the need
for intelligence and to speak up for us,
in terms of the quality of our work and
our compliance with the laws. That
would help.
We gave a thousand briefings to Con-
gress last year. Some of our top people
spend 25 percent of their time respond-
ing to congressional inquiries. If mem-
bers of Congress would vouch for our
good work, that might encourage the
public to cooperate with us. ^
62 AMERICAN LEGION MAGAZINE
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ER 1610X-88
William M. Baker
Director, Public Affairs
[phone]
JUDGE:
18 April 1988
SUBJECT: Interview and Picture Session with
Jim Sites, American Legion Magazine
Jim Sites, former Editor-in-Chief of the
American Legion Magazine (ALM) and now a ALM
contributing editor, will interview you at 1500
hours on 20 April in your office. He will have
photographer Art Stein and Stein's assistant
Jeff Granite with him.
ALM has eight million readers. Sites will
give us final approval of whatever he writes
from his interview with you. He will
undoubtedly mention your having received the
American Legion Distinguished Service Medal on 1
March 1988 from past National Commander James
Dean. ~DC
(. Exic
Sites did with you and with DCI Casey.
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P .0
About the Author ...
Few people know America and its communi-
cations systems better than James N. Sites, who is
President of his own Washington-based manage-
ment counseling service, James N. Sites &
Associates, and Senior Consultant to the nation-
wide public relations firm, John Adams Associates.
A veteran of 30-plus years in news reporting,
government and public relations, Sites was born in
Pittsburgh, Pa., spent four World War II years on 11
U.S. merchant ships, then graduated with honors
in Journalism from Detroit's Wayne University.
Besides serving as an editor with Business
Week Magazine, Chrysler Corporation publications
and the Whaley-Eaton Washington Newsletters,
Sites has helped develop and implement some of
the most significant U.S. PR campaigns, becoming
a recognized authority in mobilizing public support
for business' public policy objectives. His ex-
ecutive positions include Assistant Vice President
for the Association of American Railroads, Vice
President of the Chemical Manufacturers Associa-
tion, Vice President in charge of the Washington
office of the international PR consultants, Carl
Byoir & Associates, Senior Vice President of the
National Association of Manufacturers and Presi-
dent of NAM's foundation.
During the Ford Administration, Sites was
Director of Public Affairs for the U.S. Treasury
Department and personal aide to Treasury
Secretary William E. Simon.
He is an Accredited Member of the Public
Relations Society of America and a member of the
President's Advisory Council. In 1962 he was
selected the USA's Eisenhower Exchange Fellow
and spent a year studying government policies in
Europe, the Mideast and the Soviet Union.
The Scandinavian connection: The author's
wife and working associate is Inger Krogh Sites, a
native of Oslo and daughter of Norway's noted
operasinger, the late Erling Krogh. One of the first
exchange students to come to America after World
War II, Mrs. Sites is a professional librarian who
teaches Norwegian to U.S. diplomats at the State
Department's Foreign Service Institute.
In October 1983 Sites was also named Editor-in-Chief
and Publisher of the Indianapolis-based AMERICAN LEGION
MAGAZINE, the nationwide general-interest publication
of the 2.8-million-member American Legion. Assigned to
modernize the 66-year-old magazine, he reshaped its
editorial focus and advertising policies, gave its'
graphics a "new look" and developed a new senior staff.
In 1985 Sites returned full-time to his Washington
base, where he continues working with LEGION MAGAZINE
as a Contributing Editor, handling policy features and
its "headliner" interview series. He is also Editor of
WINGS OF GOLD, The Magazine of NAVAL Aviation.
STAT
(From
James N. Sites & Associates
reprint of JNS.byliner appearing in Norwegian-American Commerce)
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0
CLOSING IN ON
CRIME
For two years the crime rate has declined, but the war goes on.
"Right now we have great momentum, says FBI Director
William H. Webster. "The important thing is to continue
that effort." He tells how in this interview.
Legion Magazine: Mr. Webster, where do we
stand regarding crime in the United States? Is the
situation getting better-or worse?
William Webster: Serious crimes in the United
States-murder, arson,. robbery,' rape--showed a 3 percent
reduction in 1982 from the previous year, and there was a 7
percent reduction in 1983. This is the first time since we
began to collect comparative data that we have had two
years of recorded declines in succession. The first six months
of 1984 also reflect about a 5 percent decline compared with
the first six months of 1983.
Q. What's the major reason for this improvement?
There are many factors that influence crime-even the
A. Weather. For in-
stance, we have consis-
tently recorded the low-
est crime rates in the
first quarter of the year,
when it's winter time;
the third quarter is tra-
ditionally the high crime
period, when more
people are out on the
street. Yet, a number of
things can be cited as
contributing to lower
crimp rates.
First is more effective
law enforcement. There's
never.been a time. in the
20 years I have been
associated with law
enforcement in one form or another that I
Second, more severe sentences are being passed out, and
fewer paroles are being given to repeat offenders. In other
words, the people who account for more than a single crime
are being put in prison and they're being kept there. We
have the largest prison population in our history at the pres-
ent time-over 400,000 people in prison. We're sorry to
see that, but we're glad to see fewer incidents of early re-
lease of repeaters.
A third factor, which undoubtedly has some influence on
crime but is overblown by too many, is the demographic
factor-the passage of the.baby boom through the period of
19 to 24, when most crimes are committed.
A final important factor has been the emergence of ef-
fective citizens' groups determined to be part of the process
of dealing with crime. America has often seen- vigilante
groups, but what we really need are vigilant citizens.
:And we're getting them. We're now seeing groups lice
the Crime Stoppers sharing information, providing impor-
tant resources and avenues for information to flow into the
criminal justice system, giving us leads that we need to
make our criminal cases.
Q. What can citizens do to help prevent crime?
We focus initially on making the community aware of
what law enforcement is all about-helping citizens
get better acquainted with their local law-enforcement
agencies, making sure that those agencies are seen by their
citizens as.being,part of, and not outside, their com-
)munities.' These are not hired guns. They are fellow citizens
serving you.
Citizens then become more comfortable with and suppor-
tive of law-enforcement agencies. That means more infor-
mation will pass from these citizens to our nation's law-
enforcement agencies.
greater concerted efforts by law enforcement at an levels to We need cooperation. We need the willingness of citizens
deal with problems of major crimes. who are witnesses to crimes to be prepared not only to give
Dissector of the FBI since 1978, William H. Webster earlier
served as a U.S. District Attorney, U.S. Court of Appeals
judge and Washington University Law School instructor
the information but, in many cases, to act as witnesses. Be-
fore theyrel do that, they need the confidence that the police
are going forward. That there will be prosecution. That it's
worth their support.
TFE AMEWCAw LMX M MAGAaPE
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Q. Can people hope to see the downtrend in crime
statistics continue?
Hope comes cheap ... but in reality the momentum is
A. there. As long as this level of citizen cooperation con-
tinues, as long as we continue the heavy emphasis on train-
ing at all levels of law enforcement, keeping ahead of the
state of the art on crime, identifying crime trends and mov-
ing out to meet them, instead of simply reacting after the
situation becomes intolerable, I think we have a very good
chance to keep that chart line going down.
Q? How about the quality of the individual law-en-
forcement agent?
There's a rising level of professionalism among those
A. coming into our ranks. In the FBI, all of our special
agents are college graduates, and we subject them to an
on-going program of in-service training. We're utilizing
modern technology-lasers, computers, modern scientific
forensic technology. This type of capability attracts an in-
creasingly able group of young men and women.
Our mission also has tremendous job satisfaction. You're
doing something for your community. You're doing some-
thing for your country. You're serving justice. And young
men and women of ability and patriotism and idealism. are
logically attracted to what we're doing.
Q? You're always involved in a race with the criminal.
As you get better, he gets more elusive. Who's ahead?
We're certainly running apace with the most advanced
A. criminal techniques. This is especially true as we get a
better handle on such crimes as the misuse of the computer
and the illegal electronic transfer of funds. The real chal-
lenge out there now is not so much the individual criminal,
but the criminal enterprise-whether it's a terrorist group,
espionage agents operating in this country, the narcotics
cartels or the traditional Mafia crime families. Our chal-
lenge has been to disrupt the enterprise and its distribution
network and put these criminals in prison-not just those
who are doing the higher-ups' bidding, but the higher-ups
themselves. I've been working at that ever since I came to
the FBI.
Q? What about drugs? Do you think you can ever
really hope to come to grips with growing drug traffic?
Yes, I do, but it is a many-faceted challenge, and we
kneed to win in each of the facets to be successful. We
need to improve our clout with source countries. We need
to win their cooperation in reducing the amount of con-
traband produced in their countries and shipped here.
That's perhaps the most effective action we can take.
The next challenge lies in interdiction. We're improving
our capacity to stop it enroute or to seize it at our borders.
The third phase, one in which the FBI is primarily occu-
pied, is to break up the apparatus for distribution of narcotics
inside our country. Seizure is important, but we could seize 75
percent of the drugs and still they would pour in as long as the
capacity to distribute is in the country. ?
Step number four is equal to all the others. We must re-
duce demand. Law enforcement can approach the problem
of supply, but as long as people want drugs, people will
manage to obtain them. I see some very healthy signs on
FBI PROFILE
The FBI's fiscal year 1985 budget of $1.1 billion-
the first time the agency exceeded a billion dollars-
supports about 20,000 employees, including 8,875 special
agents in 59 U.S. field offices and Puerto Rico, and 13
foreign liaison offices covering 85 nations.
Criminal activities under FBI purview include vio-
lations of more than 200 federal statutes, organized and
white-collar crime, kidnappings, terrorism and foreign
counter-intelligence. The FBI also works with the Drug
Enforcement Administration and many other .law
enforcement agencies throughout the nation.
'Referred to at one time as "GMen," the FBI began
in 1908 when President Theodore Roosevelt ordered the
creation of an office of chief examiner for the Depart-
ment of Justice, which evolved into the Federal Bureau
of Investigation on July 1, 1935.
The FBI plans to hire 300 special agents in fiscal year
1985 and 1,300 support employees.
. In the bureau's 76 years of service, 26 special agents
have been killed in the line of duty.
cew
We had 100 terrorist
bombings in 1977. By
October last year,
we had V"
the horizons here. For instance, marijuana has been shown
to be harmful to health, and consumption among the young
is going down.
Q. Does the growing acceptance of narcotics among
more wealthy citizens affect your ability to control the
drug problem?
Yes, and that tolerance is at least partly the result of
A. ignorance of the magnitude and scope of the damage
done to our country by the presence of drugs. Drugs gen-
erate violent crime in a society. They corrupt officials at all
levels. And, then, there's the worst consequence of drug
usage-the damage to our children. There is no use talking
about drugs in moderation. It just doesn't happen.
Q. What about the Mafia? Can you.ever really hope
to come to grips with such well-organized and deeply
entrenched crime groups?
We are coming to grips with them. The Mafia has had
A. for many years a heavy commitment in the flow of
narcotics. They always pretended they weren't interested
in that sort of thing, but that's a myth. We've established
those connections, beyond any possible doubt.
Perhaps it's our fault for not tooting our horn enough,
but we have been indicting and. convicting top players in
organized crime for years. I don't think there is a major
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Declassified in
crime family in the United States that has not experienced
.our aggressive investigation and prosecution. A Los
Angeles "family" was wiped out in one case--as was an-
other family in Cleveland and another in Denver. We've
identified organized crime leaders in Las Vegas and ob-
tained convictions there. Top players in Kansas City have
been convicted. In Chicago we have both indictments and
convictions coming in. Among New York families we are
working hard to neutralize their effectiveness. We have a
number of top "godfather" figures under indictment. Or-
ganized crime knows now we mean business.
Q. How do you feel about legalized gambling. Is that
a factor in encouraging crime?
Well, in my position, I hesitate to take moral positions
on legislative issues. But I pointed out at the time that
Atlantic City was going into casinos that we knew of no
situation in which legalized gambling was in place where we
did not eventually have organized crime. Crime doesn't al-
ways show up in the same way. In Atlantic City organized
crime influence is coming through the control of goods and
services. It's different from the "skimming" we've seen in
Las Vegas. We're also seeing evidence of corruption as or-
ganized crime tries to reach the gaming commission
through other state officials.
-So I really don't see how one can expect to run legalized
gambling anywhere without serious problems-fraudulent
tickets, counterfeit lottery processes. Any time organized
crime sees an opportunity to put a fix on something, to get
an edge on something, it'll be there. And gambling is still
the largest source of revenue for organized crime.
(rambling continues
to be the largest
source of revenue
for organized crime.-9-9
Q? More than the drug traffic?
More in dollars but not necessarily-in profit. The profit
A. margin in narcotics is very high.
Q. What about government involvement in lotteries?
Well, the argument is always made that we should
A. give the poor people a little hope. But the probabilities
of winning on a lottery ticket are so miniscule that it has to
be called a false hope. The states really have to think seri-
ously about what they are doing to their own citizens. when
they push for something like that.
Q. What about terrorism? Is `there any possibility
that this could become as serious a problem within the
United States as it is outside?
We're taking terrorism seriously. Forty percent of all
A. the terrorist incidents outside the United States in the
past five years have been directed against U.S.persons or
U.S. Property. Now, I don't'believe.that terrorism will ever'
14
find fertile soil in the United States. But that doesn't mean It A
can't happen here or won't happen here. That's why we
worked so very hard for six years to prepare for the Los
Angeles Olympics-to be sure we had an Olympics free from
terrorists from outside our country using us when the eyes of
the world were watching us. And nothing happened.
I'd like to call attention to the record. When I first came
here almost seven years ago, we were averaging about 100
political and terrorist bombings a year. In 1982 the number
was 51. In 1983, it was 31. By, October last year, &
0. How. was llha* dowel
Better intelligence and more aggressive efforts to
A. identify terrorists and to put them into jail.
Q. What about counter-espionage-dealing with the
communists' KGB? What are you doing about that?
This is an area where I cannot record success in terms '
A
. .of reducing the
problems. We have had
singular successes in the
past few years in iden-
tifying foreign intelli-
gence officers and either
having them expelled if
they're protected by dip-
lomatic immunity or
prosecuted if not. And
we've increased our
counter-intelligence
agents. Yet, we are con-
fronted with an increas-
ingly hostile intelligence
presence in the United
States. There are simply
more people coming in
here with intelligence
task missions than we can cope with. The president and
Congress have increased our resources in this area dramat-
ically. But as long as we continue to receive large numbers
of communist diplomats, tourists, trade missions and stu-
dents, we're going to have a major espionage problem on
our hands.
Q^ What's needed to fight that battle more effectively?
We're getting the resources. We have reached about
A. 12,000 companies possessing classified information or
doing business with the government to increase their sen-
sitivity to recruitment attempts and efforts to buy infor-
mation from employees.
Q. What about the future of your fight against crime?
The future depends on the present. Right now we
A.have a tremendous momentum of support. A huge
crime package was adopted by Congress last year. Addi-
tional resources have been made available and are being
prgperly built into the system- There is a strong relation-
ship between state; local and federal agencies. Citizens are
concerned and are taking action. The important thing is to
continue that concerted effort.
At no time in my lifetime have ,I ever seen the various
segments. of our society working .so well together on law
enforcement. We mustn't quit now. The heat must stay on. M
THE'AMmICAN LEGION M0GA2l&
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CIA: Confronting
"Undeclared War"
Guerrilla action, political upheaval, economic
subversion and disinformation are among the
many tactics being used against the Free World
by the forces of international Communism. In this
exclusive interview, America's intelligence chief,
CIA Director William J. Casey, assesses how the
US is faring in this battle.
Legion Magazine: Mr. Casey, what are the criti-
cal intelligence problems of the 1980s as you see them?
Director CaSey: First and foremost is the ever-
growing military power of the Soviet Union. Second is the
destabilization and subversion of countries around the
world by a combination of the Soviet Union and its Cuban,
Vietnamese, Ethiopian and Libyan proxies. Third are ter-
rorist activities that are increasingly sponsored by the
Communists and radical Arab states like Iran and Libya for
foreign policy purposes. Then, there's the deep unrest of all
those captive peoples under the Soviet yoke, like the Poles.
The Arab states around the Mediterranean and the states
having proximity to the Persian Gulf present a hornet's
nest of intelligence problems. The list is lengthy.
Q. Is all this a scenario for eventual open conflict?
Pm afraid that too few people in a peaceful, place like
A. America understand the real nature of what's
going on around the world. The hard fact is, we arecon-
fronted with an undeclared war by the forces of ..interns
tional Communism as well --as some radical Arab states.
Terrorism has reached a stage where the distinction be-
tween war and peace is often obscured. The Soviet Union's
KGB is waging constant warfare against the US, using
techniques of propaganda, disinformation and other so-
called "active measures" such as stealing or otherwise im-
properly acquiring our best technology; .destabilizing weak
governments; undermining trade and national economies,
and providing weapons and training to insurgents who seek
to overthrow non-Communist. governments. At the same
time, the Soviets seek to build an overwhelming military
power that can be used to intimidate others and make'polit-
ical gains.
12
Q. What's the main hope for countering these forces
around the world?
The CIA is the one worldwide force that can cope with
JL the tactics practiced in this undeclared war. Other
countries have effective intelligence and security agencies.
By working closely with them, by sharing information and
technological capabilities, we have mounted an effective
worldwide counter-force. Hence, the KGB and its
auxiliaries-the East Europeans, the Cubans, the Viet-
namese, the Nicaraguans-apply increasing amounts of
manpower, money and subversive skills in an effort to de-
_ stroy us and our capabilities.
Q^ How is this undeclared war going?
I think we are doing better. Over the years, the
An Communists. were very successful in supporting
guerrilla action and destabilizing and overthrowing gov-
ernments. Communists came into control in Ethiopia, An-
gola, Nicaragua and, of course, in Cuba and ;Vietnam. In
the past couple of years, however, they've been encounter-
ing increasing resistance. 'People in these countries are less
willing to take Communist oppression lying down. They are
more aware of what the Communists are really up to, and
there is growing resistance to it.
Q. Much has been heard about the operations of the
KGB and others in stealing our industrial secrets.
How damaging is this espionage work?
Soviet industrial espionage is a serious problem.
IL - Through KGB operations, America ends up contribut-
ing indirectly to the build-up, the accuracy and precision of
Soviet weapons which, in effect, -Ends us competing with
our own technology. This has forced us to make budget-
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busting appropriations to come up with more adequate de-
fense forces. However, we now fully recognize the problem
and are doing a better counter-espionage job. Last year
well over 100 Soviet agents, were arrested, kicked out or
defected around the world, most of them engaged in steal-
ing technology..
Q. Why do we tolerate all these agents within the US,
including those disguised as diplomatic personnel?
Well, we don't just tolerate them. The FBI is respon-
/~
A. sole for combatting Soviet espionage inside the US.
The Soviets certainly have more agents in this country than
we have in theirs. We work very hard to put them out of
business and are having a fairly good success rate. Yet,
sometimes it is better to watch what they are doing for a
while, to see what else is out there, instead of immediately
grabbing and deporting them.
Q. How successful is the West in prying critical in-
formation out of the USSR?
The reality we. face is asymmetry in the availability of
A. information. In our open society anybody.can get lots
of information. Their society is closed and their data is
closely held. That's the nature of the beast and it makes our
job a lot tougher. On the other hand, openness in the US is
the source of our vitality. Here, people can build, exchange
and acquire knowledge without hindrance. The Soviets pay
a steep price for their restricted freedom in the. form of a
deadening internal climate. But I'm sure they won't change
their ways, so our task will remain challenging.
Q^ How serious a threat is terrorism within .the US?
Well, it's a very serious threat worldwide. It is clear
.A. that some countries have adopted terrorism as a
cheap and inexpensive foreign policy weapon, and use it in
assorted ways to create diplomatic upheaval.: American dip-
lomatic institutions have already suffered deeply from
terrorism-as, for instance, in Lebanon-and I think that
we will see more of it abroad and here in America.
Q. Is the CIA adequately equipped to deal with all
these problems?
The CIA is a capable, hard-hitting organization. It
? was developed over 36 years ago by truly dedicated
people. It is staffed today by people just as dedicated.
There is a whole range of technical and security needs that
can be handled only by the CIA-and, along with the mili-
tary and other intelligence agencies making up the Ameri-
can intelligence community, we do have the people capable
of gathering and analyzing the information needed by our
policymakers in Washington.
William J. Casey, who -served in the OSS in WWII,
is a former chairman of the Securities & Exchange
Commission and the Export-Import Bank. He
was named CIA director in 1981.*
'Soviet espionage is a serious
problem. Through KGB operations,
Amen ca ends up contributing
indirectly to the build-up, accuracy
and precision of Soviet weapons
which, in effect, finds us competing
with our own technology."
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CIA
is being able to process the information-to analyze it so
that people can understand and use it. 7b cope with this
enormous intake, we've hired many computer and informa-
tion experts.
In this connection, I might mention that the CIA is not
looking for spies; we're looking for patriots, friends and
supporters-for people who understand the endless differ-
ence between human freedom and totalitarianism and who
are willing to put themselves on the line for the things we
in America believe in.
Q^' Any particular areas which need strengthening? Q^ Why did the CIA lose that support in the '70s?
Of course. Intelligence is by no means a perfect sci- Support was lost in the '70s because there was a lot of
A. ence. In the '70s the intelligence budget was cut, is misinformation put out about misconduct in
some 40 percent, and numbers of people reduced by 50 per- ? intelligence activities. With few exceptions, those allega-
cent. Now, we're rebuilding our capabilities. Advanced tions turned out to be false. Yet, while the charges would
technical systems have given us the ability to get a lot of appear on the front pages of newspapers, the corrections or
information that we couldn't before, and we get information denials would appear on the back pages. These charges also
faster and in larger quantities. The problem, increasingly, became political issues, and news people and others were
Q. What roles do you carry out as head of our overall
intelligence community?
' I wear three hats. First, I am the President's principal
A. . intelligence adviser. rm also charged with coordinat-
ing the intelligence community, which includes CIA, the
Department of State, Defense, 'D easury, Energy and the
FBI; that is, the nation's whole intelligence apparatus, in-
cluding military intelligence and specialized activities. And
thirdly, _I head the CIA itself. For the most part, the var-
ious components of the intelligence community work to-
gether. Having access to all areas of intelligence lets us
develop a more thorough assessment of facts.
The CIA operates from this headquarters in Langley, Va.
tempted to sensationalize ' them. Now all that has finally
died down. We reached a turning point when responsible
members of Congress took pains to set the record straight
and to develop an oversight process that restored
confidence in the way the CIA operates. Then the present
administration came in and showed that it valued and sup-
ported sound intelligence activities. All this had the effect
of rebuilding internal morale, and we've really been on the
upswing ever since.
.Q^ Mr. Casey, what about leaks of intelligence on
what the CIA is doing, particularly through Freedom
of Information Act requests: Is this a problem and, if
so, what should be done about it?
The publicizing of secret and classified information is
A. highly damaging. We damaging to the tremendous ef-
fort that goes into getting people to help us around the
world. The Freedom of Information Act makes people
abroad wonder whether we can protect their anonymity if
they agree to help us. We need relief from that burden so
we can regain their confidence and restore the capabilities
we had before.
Q. What kind of relief?
A bill is before Congress that would make our opera-
' Am tional files exempt from Freedom of Information
requests. We can now withhold information that is
classified, but we are required by the law to laboriously
search our files anyway. This means using experienced case
officers to make judgments as to the jeopardy we would be
putting our operations and people in if we released the in-
formation. That's a great waste of talent. At times as many
as 4-to-5 percent of our best.people are going over our op-
erational files and searching-sometimes because of frivol-
ous requests. If they were not tied up doing this, they
would be out on the firing line developing intelligence, our
real mission. Also, the fact that our operational files would
no longer be subject to search and exposure would be _ of
considerable comfort to those people. who would otherwise
work with us, but who are worried abort their personal
safety and whether we in this country can keep secrets.
Then, as a Cabinet officer, I get an n fight into policy
deliberations. This is very important in determining what is
critical and what we must focus on in producing the most
relevant intelligence.
Q^ Do you have any problems in getting support from
the White House and Congress?
/~ No: We have received strong support from both this
As. administration and from Congress: We have had con-
siderable, increases in our budget and -other resources,
which is essential to our rebuilding effort.. ' _
It 14
Q?` Do' the ' American people have adequate checks
against the possibility of CIA misusing its powers, es-
pecially in covert operations?
/~ There's an oversight process that is carefully and dill-
M^ -gently exercised by the Congress and it works to as-
sure that -the things we undertake are reported to 'our
oversight committees and subject to their scrutiny. I think
that's the best protection of all. It's certainly better than,
hoping to piece information together from old documents on
,events long past that come from FOIA requests.
Continued on page S7
Ire M CAN 1Ki1ON MAQAaE
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Continued from page 14
Q. Have you had problems with leaks on Capitol Hill?
Occasionally, but I consider that part of the process. It
A. is not something. that happens often. And the
record shows that such leaks usually are unintentional.
Q. Since the CIA can only operate abroad, does this
make it more difficult to counter terrorism and espion-
age within the US?
There is very close and effective cooperation between
the CIA and FBI. We pick up a lot of information
abroad. We get advance notice about who is coming in and
why they are coming. We pass this data on to the FBI and
they take over from there. The FBI, like every organiza-
tion, has problems but it's doing a good job. It has in-
creased the number of agents, its resources and its techni-
cal capabilities to deal with the rising threat of hostile in-
telligence and terrorist threats. It isn't only the Soviets
who steal our secrets, by the way. The East bloc countries
do a lot of it for them. The FBI has to handle all such prob-
lems in this country.
A. Only that the older leadership is still not prepared to
see power go to the next generation. Also, you must
recognize that the Communists rule by a committee or
group system. Who's on top seems to have made little
difference since the days of Stalin.
Q. What do you consider the primary weakness of the
Soviet system?
The rigidity and ineffectiveness of their bureaucratic
is control system and the stifling effect that has on the
Russian people and their economic and social systems. This
is overlaid on intense demographic problems-a large and
rapidly growing percentage of non-Slavic Soviet peoples do
not fully identify with the Soviet state or the ruling elite.
"Communists rule by a
committee system. Who's
on top [has] made little
difference since Stalin. 11
Q. We repeatedly -hear that the Russian people, in-
cluding many of that nation's officials, are fed up with
Communism. Should we be doing anything to encour-
age more defections?
Sure we should. The Soviets have lost agents through
N. defection and others have been expelled-more lately
than in a very long time. I think to some extent that has
been caused by cooperation and effective work among the
intelligence services of the western world.
Q. Does Andropov's death and Chernenko's,ap-
pointment portend any real change in Soviet behavior?
CIA Director
Casey during
interview
with Legion
Magazine's
editor-in-chief.
Q. Do you see any real hope of Communist Russia
ever abandoning its goals of world domination, or
finally getting together with us and trying to achieve
some kind of peaceful settlement of our differences.?
It would be very difficult to identify any time when
A. . that might happen. Of course, you hope and pursue
whatever possibilities open up. -We hope their sanity will
return -one day and that they will see the folly of simply
building up huge armaments and turn, instead, to joining
us in building a better world. ^
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