BRING WAR IN SOUTH VIETNAM ALSO TO CONFERENCE TABLE

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP66B00403R000200140015-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 32
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 2, 2005
• Sequence Number: 15
• Publication Date: May 22, 1964
• Content Type: OPEN

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'CONGRESSIONAL RECORD --'SEMATE 11351
And he sees beyond the horizon. The land Sefiator from 6eorgia [Mr. TALMADGE]
and water conservation fund bill, landmark for himself and other Senators, relating
conservation legislation which must be en- to jury trials in criminal contempt cases.
acted, will rationalize the hit-or-miss, stop-
and-start progress in meeting the national
demand for parks and recreation oppor-
tunities.
The Pacific Southwest water plan, too, rep-
resents statesmanship of a most demanding
order.
I commend to you the field of conserva-
tion, and the field of politics?separately and
together. I love them both.
1904:
Wee n-yaliying aril? e (Cate& Conserva-
tionists; -Wat &pi-ally available to those
who Would nie-eVerYpeatible device to defeat
the reservatieri:nf 'any "further lands for park
Any iminber of parallel situations may be
cited to demons-trate the increasing conflict
between 'a.;-rid" litifilit-interests within the
coriSerVation'familY In ita- broad expanse.
The Steain-bo480,rings- project, dear to the
hearts ,of: the "realaniation branch of the
family, foUnderecl Upen'the Unavoidable con-
sequence Of flooding a part of Dinosaur Na-
tional Moriunient. The Glen Canyon reser-
' vOir is already' beginning to fill, but the
' bitterness' over failure to protect Rainbow
Bridge against 'Water intrusion is readily evi-
dent in, our daily Mail. Issues such as these
find their outlet in the exercise of highly
developed techniques of political pressure.
- The isates Upon Which the conservation
coin/Min* finds itself divided will increase
as 'demands for scarce land increase. The
pofitical dimension of conservation has ex-
panded in ever-widening circles as our soci-
ety and our technology have become increas-
ingly complex. The simple "for" or "against"
issue of 'l200 now has overtones of the bu-
reaucratic contest for policy supremacy.
"Multiple use" becomes a slogan to block the
preservation' of critically needed recreation
values; freedom to locate mineral claims
argues against inclusion of a public domain
tract in either a forest or a park. Parks sup-
porters are Poetised of "locking up" resources
because they_ regard public Minting incom-
patible with park objectives. The pluralism
of modern life- niakes extremely complicated
the simple faith Which motivated Thoreau,
Muir, Powell, and the- other 'prophets of the
good' life.
Let us now look to the future prospects for
conservation ,as a "political Issue. Will it
drop out of the field becauSe other problems
Of Modern, life demand all of our attention?
I am 444:10.9011. that the e.0.0t -ol?Posite will
be the ekes. 'Science and technology can
.change and thilitigy and Stretch the limits
of such resold,* OP feed and fiber and energy
sbUrees. ',But eventually Wnget back to the
elements of -land and Water.
Living Space for twice oniinetent POPitiation
will demonstrate the inelasticity of the land
surface. _ Water prOblerna; both- qualitative
and quantitative, must be attacked promptly
and with every scrap of our imagination?for
wars have been fought and civilizations have
? died for its lack We face a,Centitry of intense
competition /or these elemental resources.
Government must inevitably enter as the
arbiter. _PonservatiOnisaiies kri47; therefore,
become the dominant ones in public affairs,
therefore, in politics, in Our own generation.
The stewardship Of Stewart Udall as Sec-
retary of the 'Interior has seen a truly re-
markable elevation of the level of conserva-
tion politics. '
? ? First p,nci, feremost, be: has penetrated the
American consciousness of the land andwa-
ter, and 1,::).,as made conservation a felt philoso-
phy, in and out of 66fernnient. President
Kennedy's White House Conference on Con-
servation in 1902: Was the 'Drat Since Teddy
Roosevelt; and it caught' the iniblic's at-ten=
tion and interest. jSo aid that Memorable
conservation te--hr in the beautiful autumn
of 1963._34.r.1-740,lyS book .-rhe: quiet Crisis"
Is thoughtful and deep,-afid its infinence
widens Month by Month. '
It, takes a great Secretary to be able to
Manage bath the programs 'for 'Water deVel=
opment and the programs for park and nat-
ural valne protection, and the public does
? not eyen begin to understand how well he
has,,,Magered3henridarifentalanf each, thus
?freeinghimself from the shackles of slogans
rheDric?
y sees the hiof con=
? 0.0italPn5C:rtr(lefSocial objectives arid other
aoverpluen _programs, as witness the con-
servatioiiist cast of the Job COrPs segment
of President Johnson's Wr ron poverty.
- 4
SALVATION ARMY WEEK
Mr. KEATING. Madam President, 84
years have passed since Commissioner
George Scott Railton and his seven "Hal-
lelujah Lasses," as they were called,
marched into New York and "opened
fire" on America. Today the Salvation
Army includes 5,000 officers in the United
States, 1,300 evangelical centers, and
more than 800 institutions and services.
Its workers have become known for their
selfless devotion, their endless patience,
and their consistent optimism.
The Salvation' Army, which first won
fame in this country by providing the
"doughboys" with doughnuts in World
War I, and had a major hand in the USO
clubs during World War II, does not limit
Itself to work with the distressed. Army
services range from missing persons bu-
reaus and correctional services for pris-
oners to marital counseling, from rooms
for evicted slum dwellers and nurseries
for children of working mothers to free
soup kitchens and medical and dental
care.
The Salvation Army began as a unique
adventure in evangelism. The founder
of the Army, William Booth, believed in
providing "soup and soap" before trying
to convert the thousands of forgotten
human beings?the alcoholics, the street-
walkers, and the criminals?who were
not wanted by organized religion of the
time.
This year, while we are ourselves try-
ing to change the face of the "other
America," it is particularly appropriate
to salute the work of the Salvation Army.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
further morning business? If not,
morning business is concluded.
The Chair lays before the Senate the
unfinished business.
CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1963
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the bill (H.R. 7152) to enforce the
constitutional right to vote, to confer
jurisdiction upon the district courts of
the United States to provide injunctive
relief against discrimination in public
aCCortnnodations, to authorize the At-
torney General to institute suits to pro-
tect constitutional rights in public fa-
cilities and public education, to extend
the Commission on Civil Rights, to pre-
vent discrimination in federally assisted
programs, to establish a Commission on
Equal Employment Opportunity, and for
other purposes.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
question is on agreeing to the amend-
ments (No. 577) proposed by the Sena-
? tor from Louisiana [Mr. LONG] to the
amendments (No. 513) proposed by the
CALL OF THE ROLL
Mr. CHURCH. Madam President, I
suggest the absence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
[No. 249 Leg.
Aiken Douglas
Allott ' Mlender
Anderson Fong
Bartlett Gruening
Bayh Hickenlooper
Beall Humphrey
Bennett Inouye
Bible Jackson
Burdick Javits
Carlson Jordan, Idaho
Case Keating
Church Long, Mo.
Clark Mansfield
Cotton McCarthy
Curtis McGovern
Dirksen McIntyre
Dodd Metcalf
1
Miller
monroney
Morse
Mundt
Neuberger
Pearson
Pell
Proxmire
Ribicoff
Saltonstall
Simpson
Smith
Sparkman
Stennis
Talmadge
Yarborough
Young, N. Dak.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. A quo-
rum is present.
The Chair recognizes the Senator from
Georgia.
Mr. TALMADGE. Madam President,
I ask unanimous consent that I may -
yield to the distinguished Senator from
Alaska [Mr. GRUENING] with the under-
standing that my doing so will not affect
my right to the floor in any way whatso-
ever or cause the resumption of my
speech to be counted as a second speech.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, it is so ordered.
BRING WAR IN SOUTH'VIETNAM
ALSO TO CONFERENCE TABLE
Mr. GRUENING. Madam President,
President Johnson and Ambassador
Stevenson are to be highly, congratu-
lated for taking a portion of the south-
east Asian mess to the United Nations.
That is precisely where it belongs. I
have so urged ever since March 10, 1964,
when I spoke in the Senate and stated
that the United States should get out of
South Vietnam and immediately pull
our troops back from the fighting front.
While the administration's action in
the United Nations yesterday was an en-
tering wedge, it has not gone far enough.
However, it does mean that the admin-
istration which inherited the Vietnam
Mess from previous administrations has
now realized that in southeast Asia we
cannot and should not go it alone. It
might have done this immediately on
taking office, but it is riot easy over-
night to shake off established?even if
mistaken?policy, especially if the same
policymaking personnel continues in
office.
The solution of the serious problems
existing in southeast Asia lies in strict
adherence to the Charter of the United
_Nations calling for collective action by
the signatories to the charter and not by
individual action. t congratulate Presi-
dent Johnson in having come at least
this far.
As James Reston write& in today's New
York Times:
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11352 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
? None of thia removes the need for defend-
ing the principle of collective action, That
need is just as great now as it was when the
U.N. Charter was written, or when the fight-
ing broke out in Korea or the Congo.
The administration's actions in the
United Nations yesterday was hailed to-
day by Max Frankel in the New York
Times in. these words:
For the first time, also, the United States
indicated that It was prepared at any time
at least to debate the entire southeast Asia
Bit'uation, including its own actions. in the
world organization.
So far so good. It is high time the
United States stopped sabre rattling and
restorted to peaceable measures. Why
not this procedure for all southeast
Asia? Why not stop the killing in South
Vietnam now?
The situation?as I have said repeated-
ly?in South Vietnam is such that it is
now threatening the peace of all south-
east Asia. Ambassador Stevenson
should have gone further. He should
have offered solutions along the same
lines to end the fighting in South Viet-
nam where brother is fighting brother
and father is fighting son.
It is also a situation where American
boys are dying in battle.
It is also a situation that cries out for
International solution for the problem
which will not be resolved in battle but
around a conference table. The United
Nations offers such a conference table
for us and before the situation deterio-
rates further we should seize upon this
Opportunity and lay the matter before
the Security Council of the United Na-
tions. If we are thwarted there we
should go further and invoke the powers
of the General Assembly.
As we go it alone in South Vietnam
the situation continues to deteriorate.
The New York Times, in a leading edi-
torial on Thursday, May 21, 1964, occu-
pying more than half its editorial
columns, analyzes the deteriorating sit-
uation in Indochina and comes to the
conclusion that:
We must confront the Communists with
options short of unacceptable defeat, op-
tions to which they can turn, once some of
their leaders begin to conclude that victory
may be unattainable or too expensive. In
brief, we must define our peace aims.
Aceording to the New York Times edi-
torial, "total victory is beyond our grasp."
This conclusion is reaffirmed by the
sombre statement contained in Joseph
Alsop's column in the Washington Post
and -Times Herald on May 20, 1963, to
the effect that:
Like a muffled thief in the night, pipping
from shadow to deceptive shadow, a great
national disaster is creeping up on the
United States?and on this poor country
[South Vietnam] too. In one night, almost
before we know it. we may be overtaken by
the disaster that Is creeping up on us.
It is heartening to have the New York
Times finally take a good hard look at
the facts in southeast Asia. Such a re-
appraisal of our tenuous position in
South Vietnam by one of the Nation's
leading newspapers is long overdue. I
would hope that in the days ahead such
reappraisals will take place in our news-
papers from coast to coast.
As I have been saying for months now
on the floor of the Senate, the problem
in South Vietnam is a political and not
a military one. The United States can-
not impose by military force alone a vic-
tory upon South Vietnam. By the same
token, the United States cannot achieve
peace in Vietnam by interposing bodies
of U.S. military men between the Viet-
namese and the Vietcong. The lives of
American soldiers cannot be used as a
substitute for a will to win on the part
of the Vietnamese.
The time has long since come to ne-
gotiate an honorable way out of our in-
volvement in South Vietnam?in which
we are alone involved and in which our
so-called allies have given us at most
only moral, if any, but no material as-
sistance.
The New York Times states in its edi-
torial:
But an increased military effort alone,
without an offer to negotiate, would simply
compound the errors of the past.
With this statement. I am in hearty
accord. But I would add to it.
In the first place, I would add the sug-
gestion that our military strength should
henceforth be maintained only through
the South Vietnamese fighting men and
our military material. There is no
earthly reason for the loss of a single
additional American military man on the
fighting front in South Vietnam. We
have needlessly lost too many American
military personnel in battle already. Our
so-called advisers should be withdrawn
at once from the fighting lines.
In the second place, I would add that
negotiations should be begun immedi-
ately and that the United States should
make it abundantly clear that it is not
attempting to make South Vietnam a
U.S. colony. I care not whether the im-
mediate negotiations for a peaceful set-
tlement in South Vietnam are begun
in the United Nations which, because of
Cambodia's complaint against the United
States, is already seized with part of the
problem in southeast Asia, or through
SEATO, which was involved in the 1954
settlement. The medium of negotiations
Is relatively unimportant. The impor-
tant point is that we begin negotiations,
In the third place, I would add that
there is a definite need for an investi-;
gation of why the people of the United
States have not been given the facts
and why it has been necessary, in the
words of the New York Times, for the
"harsh facts" of the war in South Viet-
nam to be "brought to public notice
through the enterprise *of American
newspapermen on the spot." In recent
years there has, in my opinion, not been
a more flagrant violation of the Ameri-
can people's right to know. The inves-
tigation I am calling for should be two
pronged.
First, it should investigate to find out
whether the true facts of the situation in
South Vietnam over the years have been
withheld from the American people not
for security reasons but to cover up bu-
reaucratic bungling.
Second, and even more important?it
should investigate to determine whether
there has been a serious failure on the
part of our intelligence apparatus to find
out and evaluate accurately the true
facts.
In that connection, consider the on-
again, off-again type of statements is-
sued by Secretary McNamara after each
of his trips to South Vietnam.
On Secretary McNamara's first trip,
Homer Bigart cabled to the New York
Times on May 11, 1962, from Saigon as
follows:
After 48 hours in South Vietnam, Mr. Mc-
Namara said he was "tremendously encour-
aged" by developments. He said the Viet-
namese people had more security. He was
pleased by the quality of assistance given
by the American military and civilian per-
sonnel.
His visit left Americans and South Vietna-
mese with these impressions:
First, the Kennedy administration still is
rigidly following its "sink or swim with Diem
line."
Second, the administration regards Presi-
dent Ngo Dinh Diem as a remarkable na-
tional leader whose loss would be a great set-
back to the anti-Communist cause in south-
east Asia.
Third, the administration believes the
American correrpondents here are giving a
distorted picture to Congress of American
Involvement In the shooting war.
That was after Secretary McNamara's
first 'visit to South Vietnam.
The official statement on October 3,
1963, from the White House after Sec-
retary McNamara's return from his sec-
ond visit stated in part:
Secretary McNamara and General Taylor
reported their judgment that the major part
of the U.S. military task can be completed
by the end of 1965, although there may be
a continuing requirement for a limited num-
ber of U.S. training personnel.
They reported that by the end of this year
the U.S. program for training Vietnamese
should have progressed to the point
where 1,080 U.S. mpitary personnel assigned
to South Vietnam can be withdrawn.
The New York Times story by Tad
Szulc at that time was headed "Vietnam
Victory by the End of 1965 Envisaged by
United States; Officials Say War May
Be Won if Political Crisis Does Not Ham-
string Effort."
Within 3 months Secretary McNamara
was back in Saigon, on his third visit,
and this time the New York Times story
by Hedrick Smith on December 21, 1963,
'was headed: "United States Drops Plans
for 1965 Recall of Vietnam Force."
In the story there appears this signifi-
cant paragraph:
Some diplomatic observers maintained that
the goal, announced by the White House
early In October, was never meant as an in-
flexible commitment. They suggested that
It was Intended primarily for domestic politi-
cal purpose..
And now we come to Secretary Mc-
Namara's latest excursion, his fourth, to
South Vietnam earlier this month. This
time the New York Times story by Jack
Raymond on May 15, 1964, was headed:
"McNamara Urges Further Aid for U.S.
Aid for Vietnam War; Back From Saigon,
He Gives President a Plan To Send More
Money and Men."
It is obvious from these accounts that
the American people have been misled.
Whether this was deliberate or whether
those issuing the statements were not
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- StNAtt 11353
given accurate appraisals of the situation
is a question the answer to which the
American Public has a right to know.
Following this latest visit to South
Vietnam, and. Secretary 1VIcNarnara's rec-
ommendations- , President Johnson last
Monday sent to the Congress a special
message reqUeSting an increase of $125
million in the amount to be authorized to
be appropriated for economic and mili-
tary assistance to South Vietnam for the
196$ fiscal year beginning July 1, 1964.
Acith Secretary Rusk and Secretary Mc-
Namara testifying before the House
Conunittee on Foreign Affairs, urged the
speedy approval Of this request. That
'committee approved the request last
Wednesday.
The President's message is even more
puzzling when put in the context of re-
ports recently emanating from Saigon.
In a news story by the Associated Press
from Saigon dated May 7, 1964, printed
the next day in the New York Times,
Premier_ Xhanh is reported as saying:
But he (ith'anh) said American aid?which
Involves 16,000 marl and money at the rate of
$500 million a year?was adequate at this
stage and he had no plans to ask Defense
Secretary Robert S. McNamara for more when
he visits Saigon again next week.
,
trel'k fork Times, in a story from
Washington by Jack Raymond dated
May 14-10 days after Xhanh's state-
ment?starts off as follows:
Secretary 4of Defense Robert McNamara
laid before President Johnson today a new
plan for increased military and economic
support for South Vietnam.
Four ,days later the President 'sent to
the Congress a message requesting the
authorization of an additional $125 mil-
lion in economic and military aid for
South Vietnam. -
Who wants this aid: Secretary Mc-
Namara or premier 'Xhanh?
I am still More puzzled by other impli-
Cations of the -President's message
It can have three posSible purposes.
iAs the New York Times characterizes
It, it could have as its purpose that of
giving the morale of the South Viet-
nallieSe a pOchOlogicalhoost.
It could also have as its purpose the
attempt to create the myth that the for-
eign aid budget for fiscal year 1965 is
, irreducible. If this is so, then it will not
? stand up to objective scrutiny.
In the first place, the amount' request-
- ed to be. authorized to be apPropriated?
$3.4 billion?is larger bY $400 Million
than the amount appropriated 'for the
foreign aid program for the Current fis-
cal year. Which new prograini included
In the $400 'million increase?and in what
cotintri,esare so very Important that
_
they cannot be cut by the $70 million ad-
ditional issisfande which the President
says South Vietnam needs for its eco-
ncliiie development?
? As anyone who has studied theforeign
aid prograni knows?and as has been re-
peatediy hronght:oue here On the floor
pje.Aengi,e,?th_67,.tnfelgn aid budget
$.0445?1Con ter_OsCaTyear-196$=as it has
been..in the past?is only an illustrative
--budgeflancl nota firm budget as is sub-
telitted: 'With remieet to domestic pro-
.
gthiis:" This means that the AID ad-
ministrators are saying to the Congress,
for example, that with the money given munist Vietcong fighters?a war in which
them they will carry out projects A, B, all too many U.S. fighting men have been
C, and D in countries W, X, Y, and Z. maimed or killed?a war which is not
This statement, however, is preceded by worth the life of a single additional
a big caveat. The AID administrators
tell the Congress repeatedly, firmly, and
unmistakably that they are not to be held
to these illustrations. During the year
we may find it more advantageous to do
projects E, F, G, and H in an entirely
different group of countries.
This is known as the illustrative
budget.
It is not permitted for domestic pro-
grams.
The AID administrators have resisted
for years all attempts to require them
to submit firm budgets to which they
would be held accountable. The reasons
given by these administrators for resist-
ing the submission of firm budgets to
Congress is their claim that in an ever
changing world it is impossible for them
to tell the Congress with reliable cer-
tainty in May for what purposes they will
have to spend the appropriated foreign
aid money in the following May or even
November.
So, on the one hand, the AID admin-
istrators are saying to the Congress that
they cannot submit firm budgets to the
Congress because they need flexibility?
maneuverability?and the ability to react
instantly to events anywhere in the
world. ?
Meanwhile, on the other hand, the
President is telling the Congress that
every penny of the $3.4 billion requested
of the Congress for the next fiscal year
cannot be decreased a few million from
One country's program and a few million
from another country's program to ac-
cumulate $125 million he says is vitally
needed for South Vietnam.
The AID administrators cannot have
it both ways. And also the timetable is
all wrong.
'Why the rush with this $125 million
authorization')
American soldier?a war which all im-
partial students of the problem agree can
only be settled at the conference table
and not on the battlefield.
I repeat, Madam President, the time
has come to withdraw our fighting men
from the frontlines in South Vietnam
and to begin at once to settle the problem
of South Vietnam and of southeast Asia
at the conference table where we have
a chance to achieve peace in that area
of the world rather than to escalate our
military efforts which can at best achieve
only a military stalemate, but which will
in any event cost us dearly in lives of our
servicemen.
Since making my first major speech
in the Senate on the March 10, 1964, my
mail has been heavy on the subject of
Vietnam running about 100 to 1 in favor
of my position. What are the American
people saying about the 'U.S. position in
Vietnam?
This is in excerpt from a letter from
a couple in Webster, N.Y.:
We hope you will continue to use your in-
fluence in changing the present southeast
Asian policy away from support of this sense-
less and brutal war. It is our hope that Gov-
eminent leaders might at least consider ne-
gotiation and possible neutralization of the
area. We deplore the present sterile and un-
realistic position.
A professor at the University of Penn-
sylvania writes:
I deeply admire your stand on Vietnam,
and believe it would be supported by most
Americans if they truly understood the situ-
ation there. Against tremendous numerical
, and material odds, the guerrillas have been
fighting, suffering, and dying in steadily in-
creasing numbers. People do not behave in
this way, year in and year out, simply at
the behest of some outside master, whether
Communist or otherwise. We can under-
Stand what is happening in Vietnam today
We are dealing with a foreign aid au- only if we recognize the basic fact that the
thorization request for -fiscal year 1965 guerrillas are not opportunists, are not mer-
With the parliamentary situation in the cenaries for an outside power, but are willing
Senate being whatit is, there is no pos- to endure enormous sacrifice and suffering
because they themselves believe firmly in
:sibility of early action on the authoriza-
the rightness of what they are doing.
lion for some little time yet. And then
there will have to come the appropria-
tions. But meanwhile, there will prob-
ably be a continuing authorization en-
abling aid to go forward at not to exceed
the rate for fiscal year 1964, $3 billion.
What early advantage is to be gained by
rushing the House Committee on Foreign
Affairs to approve an authorization bill
for $3.525 billion instead of $3.4 billion?
One advantage would be to create the
myth of the irreducible foreign aid
budget.
Another advantage is to get Congress
to sign On the dotted line a blank check
apprOval for an escalated war in South
Vietrana.
From the Secretary of a Farmers
Union local in Minnesota comes the fol-
lowing plea:
For the last 2 years the Minneaota Farmers
Union has in its bylaws that any issues en-
dangering peace should immediately be
brought before the United Nations. In the
Interests of world peace, and with the rec-
ognition of the right of all nations to develop
their own resources and form of government,
we urge that the United Nations be called
on to supervise a cease fire so as to enable
our forces to return home.
Another professor at the University of
Pennsylvania writes:
I think it is one more dangerous myth
i

This disturbs me greatly. I object that we are in Vietnam to uphold a vital
part of the "free world." The truth about
strenuously if this message signals a de-Vietnam?about its origins, its political
cision to escalate the intensity of Mc-
somposition, and our own role?have too
Naniara's war in South Vietnam 'War. long been buried..
which cannot be won by Military fight-
ing in the steaming jungles- of -Senth From a noted anti-Communist South
Vietnam or by burning alive With nailrlfm Vietnamese author, now living in Paris?
bombs inhabitants of entire villages in Tran-Van-Tung?comes a thoughtful
the hope that some of them may be Corn analSrais of the problems in part reading:
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11354 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
For my part. I am convinced that if
America is genuinely interested in helping
Vietnam defend her freedom and independ-
ence against the Communist menace, she
must help us to install a representative
civilian government with the participation
of all the foremost Nationalist leaders in the
very shortest time possible. With genuine
representation embodied in government
under the leaders who have earned real popu-
lar support by their long and dedicated
struggle against communism, dictatorship
and feudalism, we can assure a renaissance
of the national spirit. A Nationalist Govern-
ment can create the atmosphere of purpose
and dedication?so sorely lacking today?
that can turn the tide e.gainet_the Commu-
nist aggressors.
I could go on at great length reading
from the hundreds of letters I have re-
ceived in the same vein from almost every
State in the Union. In the interests of
time these brief excerpts must sere,: as
illustrative of the views of thinking
Americans in various parts of the country
who are genuinely concerned over our be-
ng in South Vietnam at all and anxious
that the war there not be escalated.
In the various newspaper accounts, /
find the repeated use of the word
"fragile" as applied to the situation in
southeast Asia. That is probably an ap-
propriately descriptive adjective. It is
"fragile" which means easy to break, or
likely to break. Our policymakers
should hasten to get the problems to the
United Nations conference table lest
what is fragile be irreparably shattered.
Every day lost may well mean the loss of
more American lives.
Madam President, I ask unanimous
consent to have the editorial published
in the New York Times of Wednesday.
May 20, 1964, as well as various articles,
newspaper reports, and telegrams on the
crisis in South Vietnam, and the letter
from Tran-Van-Tung, printed in the
RECORD.
There being no objection, the material
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
(From the New York Times, May 21, 19641
New PHASE IN VIETNAM
The crisis in Laos, Cambodia's arraign-
ment of the United States in the Security
Council and President Johnson's request for
sharply increased aid to South Vietnam are
all coincidental; but they are also interre-
lated.
In Laos, Washington has no alternative
but to try to save what remains of the 1962
settlement. The trouble with that settle-
ment has not been that it neutralized Laos,
but that it failed to neutralize It completely.
Laos has remained a source of East-West
conflict because of its lengthy common bor-
der with Vietnam and it. use by the Com-
munists as a protected military highway for
the Vietcong. It always has been clear that
the 1962 cease-fire in Laos would remain
fragile as long as the war in Vietnam con-
tinued.
The Cambodian problem also stems pri-
marily from the Vietnamese war. The recent
border incidents now under debate in the
United Nations are only part of the problem.
The real difficulty with Prince Sihanouk?
who has canceled American aid and sought
better relations with Peiping?is that he has
become pessimistic about halting the Com-
munist advance in neighboring South Viet-
nam.
The past year has thus seen a steady dete-
rioration in all three of the non-Communist
successor states which the 'United States.
since the 1954 collapse of French hegemony
in Indochina, has sought to preserve from
Communist absorption. But the core of the
problem Is Vietnam. And that problem now
is entering a new phase.
Only a year ago high American officials
still regarded the military outlook in South
Vietnam with optimism?or said they did.
The war, we were told, was being "won."
As late as October. It was officially predicted
that the Vietcong could be largely "sup-
pressed" by the end of 1965. And it WWI
announced that all but a handful of Amer-
ican troops would be home by then.
We do not say that there was deliberate
deception of the American people in these
announcements; but it is clear that the
harsh facts of the war in South Vietnam
were only brought to public notice through
the enterprise of American newspapermen on
the spot. Within only the limits of military
security, the American people are entitled
to know frankly from their own Government
what goes on in Vietnam.
In any event, there has been quite a differ-
ent tone in recent weeks. Secretary Mc-
Namara now predicts "a long, hard, difficult
war" and correctly points out that "there
can be no such thing as a purely 'military'
solution of the war in South Vietnam." The
American objective now, as stated by the
White House, is "to bring Communist ag-
gression and terrorism under control."
In these circumstances, it is of great im-
portance that we frankly recognize limited,
realistic objectives. Total victory is beyond
our grasp; but it Is within our capability
to deny victory to the Communists?and to
increase their costs and difficulties. If we
demonstrate that we will make whatever
military and political effort that requires,
the Communists sooner or later will also rec-
ognize reality.
President Johnson's plan for $125 million
of additional American military and eco-
nomic support for Saigon is as important
for psychological as for military effect. We
may have to do considerably more, as well
as to keep open our option to punish North
Vietnam directly if the war intensifies. But
it would be a mistake to enlarge the war
further without establishing a reasonable,
limited objective for its settlement.
From its beginning in 1961, the Program
of American military intervention on the
Asian mainland In Vietnam has been de-
Maned to help the South Vietnamese fight
their own war, rather than to light it for
them. But American intervention was fol-
lowed by an increased Communist effort.
The result so far has been merely to enlarge
the guerrilla war without changing the real
balance of forces. Further increase in Amer-
ican aid could simply mean another frustrat-
big spin around this vicious circle?unless,
at the very same time, we begin to open the
way toward a peaceful settlement.
We must confront the Communists with
options short of unacceptable defeat, op-
tions to which they can turn, once some of
their leaders begin to conclude that victory
may be unattainable or too expensive. In
brief, we must define our peace aims.
Secretary McNamara has already made it
clear that the United States seeks neither
to establish bases in South Vietnam nor to
enroll Saigon in any Western alliance, Re
has also said that "we have no objection in
principle to neutrality in the sense of non-
alinement." And Secretaries McNamara and
Rusk both have indicated that the United
States is prepared to abide by the Geneva
accords of 1954, which neutralized all the
Indochina states, Including Communist
North Vietnam. As a result of these accords.
French troops and 120,000 Communist guer-
rillas were withdrawn from South Vietnam.
While neutralization can hardly be said to
have been a roaring success in Laos, the
story might be different if neutralization
could ultimately be applied to all of what
was formerly Preach Indochina.
It would be wise to hold forth, as well, the
prospect of normal trade for North Vietnam
both with South Vietnam and with the
West. North Vietnam cannot feed itself.
The war has been accompanied by critical
food shortages, an economic crisis, and in-
creasing dependence on the Chinese?whom
all Vietnamese traditionally fear. The pos-
sibility of a peace that would reverse this
trend could well be a serious incentive to the
Hanoi hierarchy.
To suggest this does not mean that we
can afford, in the meanwhile, to lessen our
military effort in South Vietnam. Quite
the contrary: we must make it clear to the
world that we are willing and able to wage
war as well as to negotiate for peace.
Whether in waging war or negotiating
peace, the United States would benefit from
additional allied support in Vietnam; and
attempts are being made to obtain it. But
such attempts will not get very far if our
allies suspect our purposes is to prolong
or expand the war in search of an unat-
tainable victory. We must make clear our
willingness at the proper moment to seek
a political settlement based, of course, on
a non-Communist South Vietnam, inde-
pendent, neutral?free of Communist guer-
rillas as well as of foreign troops and bases?
and guaranteed by the Great Powers. We
must make it clear that we are fighting to
get out of. not to stay in, South Vietnam.
The aim should be a return to the Geneva
settlement of 1954, an objective that might
even be supported by the French. In a lit-
tle-noticed statement a few weeks ago,
Foreign Minister Couve de Murville indi-
cated that this is really what President de
Gaulle has in mind.
American willingness to negotiate on this
basis will not necessarily bring peace quick-
ly, or even a negotiation. Military force is
essential It the Communists are to be brought
tl) the conference table and a reasonable set-
tlement extracted. But an increased mili-
tary effort alone, without an offer to nego-
tiate, would simply compound the errors
of the past.
(From the New York Times, May 12, 1962]
MCNAMARA TERMS SAIGON AID AMPLE: SATS
IT IS AT PEAK AND WILL LEVEL OFT?DIEM'S
FIGHT AGAINST Rees Heinen
(By Homer Bigart)
SAIGON, VIETNAM, May 11.?U.S. aid to
South Vietnam has reached a peak and will
start to level off, Robert S. McNamara, De-
fense Secretary, disclosed today.
Before departing for Washington, Mr. Mc-
Namara said he doubted whether U.S. mil-
itary personnel assigned to South Vietnam
would be increased above the present levels
of strength.
There are more than 6,000 American serv-
icemen advising, training and supporting
South Vietnamese forces in the struggle
against the Communist guerrillas. An addi-
tional 1.000 or more American servicemen are
believed to be either en route or destined for
shipment.
The flow of war materiel will not be in-
creased, barring unexpected setbacks in the
dontiestic struggle or overt aggression from
the Communist bloc, Mr. McNamara indi-
cated.
After 48 hours in South Vietnam, Mr.
McNamara said he was "tremendously en-
couraged" by developments. He said the Viet-
namese people had more security. He was
pleased by the quality of assistance given
by the American military and civilian per-
sonnel.
He had visited some strategic hamlets and
training areas for the civil guard and self-
defense corps and had found "nothing but
progress and hope for the future."
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/964
- CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE 11355
mg, vistp lot ,AxacricanA, and,South Viet- withdrawal of American forces, but in effect erals "explain in detail their program for
,IlatrieSe, W?Ith these impressions: it eliminated the previously announced goal 1964."
First, the kennedy administration still is of withdrawing most of them by the end of Although Mr. McNamara said he was "op-
rigidly following- its "sink or swim with 1965. timistic as to the progress that can be made
Diem line:" . Secretary McNamara also sought to allay during the coming year," he carefully quail-
Second, the administration yegards Presi- Vietnamese fears that the United States fled his optimism and avoided expressing
M
dent Ngo Dinh Ie' as ,a' remarkable na- might permit proposals for neutralizing Viet- confidence that the war situation would
tional leader 740444 WOQ,be a great set- nam to become the subject of a possible in- improve.
? , , .
bacA to,thc sunti,7,Qpirinallu4at cause in south- ternational conference on Cambodian neu-
east Asia, - trAlltY? STUDENTS JEER FRANCE
The issue of Vietnamese neutrality also
Third, the adininistratiOn belieyea the , sAI007 FX.ARS CONFERENCE
aroused a demonstration in Saigon today.
American _correspondents here are giving a - Vietnamese leaders have feared that if such Several thousand Vietnamese students, in a
distorted picture to Congress of American a conference were held, it would seriously light-hearted mood, marched on the French
involvement in tile_silooting war. The ad- undercut the morale of the Vietnamese Army Embassy to demonstrate against President
ministration feels tho re_poyters are magnify- and help fan support here for a neutral de Gaulle's proposals for neutrality and uni-
ing incidents where Amersican
fie,s, i,?9-910fit- 11s
_ _ -
aervicerneri Vietnam. fication with Communist North Vietnam.
nd thelnAelv, k AatioA And are
Nix. McNamara delivered President John- One student said, "We'd like to do a Ja-
Writhig too 71.1.F.1_2all.:Mut American casualties. -sonis assurances orally in a closed session karta," a reference to the recent sacking and
?1*-'4YS fisi riEWs,9?YrAa9gD, , with, Maj. Gen. Duong Van Minh, Chairman burning of the British Embassy in Jakarta
The r
correspondents petitioned M. Mc-
_ _ of the Military Revolutionary Council, and by Indonesian demonstrators opposed to Ma-
Na other leaders of the ruling junta.
mara to , ease th,e CA infprmation policy. laysia. But there was no violence.
They are convinced information on American Even before today, key U.S. officials were The crowd, composed of boys and girls
casnalties 0 being withheld or at least sub-
. . saying privately that with a recent sharp from the Government-run high schools and
jected to unnecessary delays. deterioration in the war effort, the 1965 Saigon University students, was shouting
They complained that South Vietnamesetroop withdrawal goal was unrealistic. cheering, and laughing as It trooped along
officers had ,intervened successfully to pre-the sunny boulevards, first to the Embassy
Some diplomatic observers maintained that
Vent thel:correspondents from riding on U.S.and then to the French Cultural Center.
the goal, announced by the White House
helicopters engaged in transporting combat early in October, was never meant as an
STATEMENTS PRESENTED
units to battlefields. inflexible commitment. They suggested that
Mr, IVIcilainara ,-11Stenesi sympathetically. it was intended primarily for domestic polit- After about an hour three student leaders,
At an airport news conference,,he sato_hils ical purposes. escorted by four Vietnamese soldiers and two
optimism over the security situation was In today's meeting the generals were re- police commissioners, went to the Embassy
based on effectinmsg .nt the stratagic ported to have asked Mr. McNamara about gate and asked' to present a statement to
'villages that are springing up all over South an editorial in the New York Times Decem- French officials. They saw, the charg?'af-
faires, Georges Perruche.
Vie t_riaJn and on the improved training of ber 8, suggesting discussions on Vietnamese
the divil Guard and Self-DefenS neutrality.
e Corps. --
BATTLE PACE ACCELERATED
Other Americans here are impatient for a The generals wanted to know whether
comprehensive plan for the pacification of this _represented Washington's policy, and SAIGON, December 20.?Secretary McNa-
the Mekong Delta provinces. But Mr. Mc- they were given assurances that it did not. mars, will confer in Honolulu with Adm.
Nannp,ra Seeriled Ceilte4t,witht1eusl _re- U.S. officials were reported to have said that Harry D. Felt, commander of U.S. forces in
settlement pperation he visited in an Knyen if a conference about Cambodia were held. the Pacific, and will then return to Wash-
Province, Thgq SoRth VIPtARIP.se in Washington would insist that it be limited ington.
a Comninntst-controlled Area lia0 been to Cambodia and that the conference would During his visit here, South Vietnamese
Moved forcibly or voluntarily into a military not mean any change in the 'U.S. commit- forces stepped up their activity against the
zone controlled by the 31st Regiment. Vietcong guerrillas. An American spokes-
zone to the war here
, man, said that there had been no significant
_GUERRILLA scTIvrry OfF But these assurances were understood to contact, but that "with major operations in
Mr. McNamara Was told there had been a have fallen short of a categorical declara- the Mekong Delta and north of Saigon, we
sharp falloff ir guerrilla activity in the area. tion that the United States would not under can expect fireworks in the near future."
:Despite his cheerful assessment, Mr. Mc- any circumstances back or attend a con- There are reports that the ruling junta,
Namara Is _reported to hold realistic Views on ference on Cambodian neutrality, which has been accused by some U.S. officials
the probable length of the war. He is Said THREE MEETINGS ARE HELD of concentrating on politics at the expense
to feel that years will pass before South Viet- Mr. McNamare met three times with the of the war, is planning now to change its
nainis,secure, junta leaders last night and today. The ses- tactics and concentrate striking power in key
Asked if he had evidence of infiltration sions were also attended by Henry Cabot regions until they are fully pacified.
from Communist North Vietnam by way of
Laos, Mr. McNamara replied: Lodge, the U.S. Ambassador; John A. McCone, Some regions?particularly the Mekong
Director of the Central Intelligence Agency; Delta and the country's southern tip, where
"Withont, qualifications, the ansWer is yes. William P. Bundy, Assistant Secretary of the Communist hold is strongest?would be
I have seen, Owing my visit here munitions Defense for International Security Affairs; left temporarily under the control of the
Which were manufactured in Communist and Gen. Paul D. Harkins, commander of the Vietcong.
Chinn and brotight into South Vietnam, pre- U.S. forces in South Vietnam. "But this won't be for long," a Vietnamese
surnably through the Laotian border, I have
seen -Other evidence of _infiltration, some of In the final session at General Minh's office, officer said. "As we pacify the key regions,
it gathered by U.S. personnel." Mr. McNamara., Mr. McCone, and Mr. Lodge we will move out and get them."
Gen, Lyman L. Lemnitzer, Chairman of met privately with General Minh and two Although Secretary McNamara, after a visit
the U.S. Jot/at Glaiefs Staff, who accom- other junta leaders?Maj. Gen. Tran Van 3 months ago, said he believed the Vietna-
panied Mr. McNamara, said he had detected Don, the Defense Minister, and Maj. Gen, mese could handle the Communists without
a greater feeling of self-confidence among Le Van Khn, secretary general of the junta, the present massive U.S. help, American
018-
the Civil Guard and e1f.7,1;lefense units. who is considered General Minh's right-hand cials now express concern.
They are getting improved training and are man. Nguyen Ngoc Tho, Premier of the "If things don't get moving in 90 days
. provisional Government, also attended, we are lost," one American official said,
losing fewer weapons under attack, he said
air er most of the junta-15 generals? A U.S. spokesman put the American com-
[From the New York Alines Dec. 21 1963j attended a 2-hour session of free give and bat-death toll at 89 after an unsuccessful
'Crump S2wrzs L041OES LaG5 RECALL search for the pilot of a fighter-bomber that
OF ;
Vmr.ns,m ,F.91W,E ..KOTAK4s.& ASSURES After the final meeting, which lasted an crashed on a dive-bombing run early in Oc-
JtruTA Aiwors Wyri, SWAY As LONG AS hour, Mr. McNamara held a closing strategy tober.
conference with U.S. officials at their military --
WAyfrno AND NErdaZ13?Jonmairr SENDS
PruncE command headquarters. In the evening he [From the New York Times, Oct. 3, 1963]
4
? left on an Air Force jet for Honolulu,
VIETNAM VICTORY BY THE END OF 1965 EN..
By Hendrick Smith)
SAIGON, SOUTH :VIETNAM, December 20.? Before boarding his plane, Mr. McNamara VISAGED BY UNITED STATES' OFFICIALS SAY
Secretary f issued a terse statement that was considered ?
o. Defense Hobert_ O. McNamara WAR MAY makA WON IP POLITICAL CR/SIS DOES
gave SomP Yie4141A'S leaders apledge of sup-
_
reserved and cautious in its comments about NOT HAMSTRING EFFORT?WARN ON REPRES-
port troll.; President Johnson today. The SION: MCNAMARA AND TAYLOR TELL THE
the course of the war.
United StatQS ylhbacit the, 'WAX against Corn-OPTIMISM IS QUALIFIED PRESIDENT AND SECURITY COUNCIL OF THEIR
niunist glISITUIRS as long as its help is needed Mr. McNamara said he had thoroughly
MISSION
and wanted, the Vietnamese leaders were discussed with U.S. officials the American (By Tad Szulc)
told. program for "providing training and logis- WASHINGTON, October 2.?The United
i According to reliable Sources, the message tical support to the South Vietnamese war States said tonight that the war in South
did not specifically mention any date for the effort" 4.1n4 hfAlleusj the Vietnamese gen- Vietnam might be won by the end of 1965
No, 103--,4
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11356 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
if the political crisis there did not signiff- gency had been suppressed or until Viet-
cantly affect the military effort.
names? forces "are capable of suppressing
A formal statement of U.S. policy, ap- it."
proved by President Kennedy after a Na- Mr. McNamara and General Taylor were
tional Security Council meeting at the White reported to believe that "the major part"
House, warned that while repressive actions of the U.S. military task could be completed
by the Saigon regime had not yet "signiff- by the end of 1965. although a limited num-
cantly affected" the war effort. "they could her of training personnel might still be re-
do so in the future."
It said that under the present conditions
most of the 14,000 U.S. military personnel
could be withdrawn from Vietnam by the
end of 1965 and that 1.000 men might be able
to leave by the end of this year.
"The political situation In South Vietnam
remains deeply serious," the statement said.
RASED ON RECOMMENDATIONS
The policy statement was approved on the
basis of recommendations from Secretary of
Defense Robert S. McNamara, Gen. Maxwell
D. Taylor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, and Henry Cabot Lodge, Ambassador
to South Vietnam.
Mr. McNamara and General Taylor re-
turned here early today from a week-long
factlInding mission in Vietnam on Presi-
dent Kennedy's orders.
The mission was designed to evaluate the
military and political situations in the
Southeast Asian country, with particular
emphasis on whether the political crisis,
stemming from the regime's repression of its
Buddhist and other opponents, is affecting
the 8-year-old war against the Communist
Vietcong guerrillas.
POLICY MAT RE REVIEWED
Essentially, the object of the mission was
to try to resolve the profound differences
within the administration over the state of
affairs in South Vietnam and the future
course of U.S. policy there.
The statement, which was read to news-
men by Pierre Salinger, White House press
secretary, after the 50-minute meeting of
the National Security Council, deliberately
avoided committing the United States to a
frozen position toward the regime of Presi- Ambassador Lodge.
dent Ngo Dinh Diem. "The security of South Vietnam Is a major
Administration quarters said later that interest of the United States as of other free
while the present decision was to maintain nations. We will adhere to our policy of
military and economic aid to South Viet- working with the people and Government of
nam at its present levels, this policy would South Vietnam to deny this country to corn-
come under review at any time if it became munism and to suppress the externally stim-
clear that, indeed, the political crisis was ulated and supported insurgency of the Viet-
seriously damaging the conduct of the war. cone as promptly as possible. Effective per-
In that sense, it was acknowledged, the formance in this undertaking is the central
United States was, in effect, placing the Diem object of our policy in South Vietnam.
regime on notice that it might have to re- -The military program in South Vietnam
consider its support for South Vietnam if has made progress and is sound in principle,
adequate measures were not taken to redress though improvements are being enegetically
the political situation. sought
Officials said that although the policy "major U.S. assistance in support of this
statement deliberately avoided making a military effort is needed only until the insur-
formal judgment that the war could not be geocy has been suppressed or until the na-
won without a meaningful political change tonal security forces of the Government of
in Saigon, the implication was there for South Vietnam are capable of suppre ? -"l It.
President Diem to see. "Secretary McNamara and General ylor
The statement said that U.S. policy re- reported their judgment that the major part
mained one of "working with the people and of the U.S. military task can be completed
Government of South Vietnam to deny this by the end of 1965, although there may be a
country to communism," but added signifi- continuing requirement for a limited number
cantly that "effective performance in this of U.S. training personnel.
undertaking is the central object of our pot- "They reported that by the end of this year
ie in South Vietnam." the U.S. program for training Vietnamese
quired.
By the end of thiss year. the statement
said, the training program for the South
Vietnamese forces should have progressed to
the point where 1,000 U.S. personnel can be
withdrawn from the country, in the opinion
of Mr. McNamara and General Taylor
U.S. military strength in South Vietnam
has risen from 685 men in early 1961 to more
than 14,000 men at this time. The buildup
began after General Taylor's first mission
to Vietnam in 1961.
Mr. McNamara and General Taylor went
into a top-secret White House meeting short-
ly after 6 p.m., about 12 hours after their
return here from a weeklong factlinding
relsoion in Vietnam.
They had given Mr. Kennedy a preliminary
briefing at a morning conference. The Presi-
dent then called the Council meeting for
the early evening.
WHITE HOURS STATEMENT ON VIETNAM
(POIIDWIng is the text of a statement read
by the White House press seerteary, Pierre
Salinger. after a meeting of the National
Security Council today.)
WASHINGTON, October 2.?"Secretary Mc-
Namara and General Taylor reported to the
President this morning and to the Na-
tional Security Council this afternoon.
Their report included a number of classified
findings and recommendations which will
be the subject of further review and action.
"Their basic presentation was endorsed by
all members of the Security Council and the
following statement of U.S. policy was ap-
proved by the President on the basis of rec-
ommendations received from them and from
[Prom the New York Times, May 16, 1e641
Meanosaas LIEGES FuRTHER U.S. Am FOR VIET-
NAM WAR: BACK FROM SAIGON, HE GIVES
PRESIDENT A PLAN To SEND MORE MoNEy
AND MEN?DEFENsE CHIEF SATs VIETCONG
CAN LINDERERINE REGIME IF COUNTERATTACK
Is Wxesc
(By Jack Raymond)
WAsHINGToN, May 14.?Secretary of Defense
Robert S. McNamara laid before President
Johnson today a new plan for increased mili-
tary anti economic support for South Viet-
nam.
Accelerated Communist activity will re-
quire expanded U.S. support, particularly to
increase the size of the South Vietnamese
Air Force, Mr. McNamara said at a news con-
ference after reporting to the President. This
may require modest increases in the number
of U.S. training personnel in South Vietnam,
he added.
The Defense Secretary repeated earlier pre-
dictions of ultimate victory against the Com-
munist insurgency.
"But I want to emphasize it is not going to
come soon." he said. "This is not that kind
of war. This is a war for the confidence of
the people and the security of those people.
and that kind of war is a long, hard war."
TALKS LAST HOUR AND HALF
The Defense Secretary and Gen, Maxwell
D. Taylor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, reported to President Johnson and his
aids for hours, shortly after returning
from their Saigon mission. It was Mr. Mc-
Namara's fifth trip to Vietnam.
Mr. McNamara, with General Taylor by his
side, afterward met reporters in the Fish
Room of the White House. He said that the
Communists in Vietnam had increased their-
terrorist activities in recent weeks, and ex-
plained that his proposals for increased sup-
port to the government of Nguyen Khanh
were being considered.
He noted that this might involve sending
more American troops.
Additional meetings with the President on
the topic have been scheduled for tomorrow
and the next day, Mr. McNamara said.
POLICE UNITS WILL RETURN
The United States withdrew 1,000 men
from South Vietnam at the end of last year
leaving 15,500. Two military police unite
are due to be returned, however, in addi-
tion to more training personnel for the
Air Force.
The role of U.S. military forces in South
Vietnam is officially characterized as the pro-
viding of training and logistical support
U.S. pilots and ground soldiers go into the
combat zones, however, and are authorized
to fire when fired upon.
According to the latest official estimates.
128 Americans have been killed by hostile
action in South Vietnam since January 1
1961. In addition, 87 casualties have beer
suffered in actions not attributed to tin
enemy. The number of wounded is official
ly estimated at 854 and 9 persons are missing
In funds, the American effort in Soutl
Vietnam is costing $500 million a year.
The Defense Secretary also disclosed tha
he had been summoned to appear before th
House Armed Services Committee at a close,
It said that the United States sought to should have progressed to the point where hearing next Tuesday.
support Vietnamese efforts to defeat "ag- 1.000 U.S. military personnel assigned to The committee has made known that 1
gression" as well as "to build a peaceful South Vietnam can be withdrawn. wishes to question Mr. McNamara on charge
and free society." "The political situation in south Viet- that the U.S. propeller-driven airplanes i:
"The United States has made clear its narn remains deeply serious. The United South Vietnam are obsolescent and hay
continuing opposition to any repressive se- States has made clear its continuing oppoen- caused the deaths of American pilots.
tions in South Vietnam," it said. tion to any repressive actions in South Viet- The Secretary of the Air Force, Eugene Is
Up to now, the statement said, the Mc- nam. While such actions have not yet signiff- Zuckert, denied the charges yesterday. M
Namara-Taylor mission found that "the mill- cantly affected the military effort, they could McNamara himself said at the airport, v.the
tary program in South Vietnam has made do so in the future, he arrived this morning, that the aircra:
progress and is sound in principle, though "It remains the policy of the United States being used in South Vietnam were "we
improvements are being energetically in South Vietnam, as in other parts of the chosen for the purpose in hand."
sought." world, to support the efforts of the people "I think it is necessary again to emote
It said that "major US, assistance" was of that country to defeat aggression and to size that this is an antiguerrilla war,- I
needed only until the Communist Maur- build a peaceful and free society." said.
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1964 COi?761tESSiONAL AEC ATE
't* l'e'Ciet'ary'S'Cifithinerit'W-ainnrins-Wer 'to
reiriarke:Off?;th States
close nOt use modern" lerAgliter'-'aireraft
in -South-Vrernani.
he Mifed_ States IS not a Signatory to
the Geneva,' agreements of 10'54 that ended
the Preneli7Indoeli1na war agreements
provide that no triodein jet alierafthe intro-
tInced, into the -area , .
Washingtbri has, bbive:Ver, indicated Its
Intention to abide by the a '
greement In re-
Cent days, nevertheleaS," the official position
hs stressed not the Geneva agreements but
the tactical requirements f the terrain.
'It was -thinouneed yesterday that -75
Douglaa'diyi'aidei designated and
,A-1I, were :bang' sent to South Vietnam to
replace the B--1-36 fl liter- hanibeth that Were
-recently Withdrawng and the T-28 trainers
still in -use; "Plie Sjiyraider is a, propeller
plane.
'The, United States does, however, have two
types of jet aircraft in South Vietnam. A
A
ISW RV--401. reconnaissancejets have been
flying photo missions. In addition, 11-2
1.4:0.01-raninesiorxiv4unsseiliSensotithr_th-eytietnarriese airfields
presumably cover
-much Of -sofitheaat Asia*
-secretary McNamara discussing the ac-
celerated Vie-teeing attacks, Said that they
were directed primarily at the rural popula-
tion to erode confidence in the Protective
*effort of the .Saigon government
With the rate of "kid ans'
pi g murders,
and ainbu4hee increasing ",very - 'substan-
tially" in recent weeks, the Secretary said,
It is "absolutely --essential" for the GoVern-
Slant of South Vietnam to Increase its
;counterattacking activity. 1-1e said it was
slSo vital. "that we consider Ways and means
through increased economic assistance, in-
'Ll.enaSeedr4tliVtArtY stPP"-t- to
'assist
V.-9(31r7
-ernlnt of Vietnam."
. Asked Whether the plan tos teli p thg
Support made "obsolete" the- preuviously.
onnouneed,pian to withdraw most 'U.S. forces
by 1-965, Secretary, McNaniara answered, as
lie 13a In the ?past, that "our primary fiinc-
tisonje_Snocnee?. training, support, and logistical
a
sta
? A6 the units" COMplete'their- trOAbind
Work, they will be sithdraviii, he Said
'Itmay be neceSsary -in order 't-0_exPand
:the training, particularly for the increases
in the regular and paramilitary, fere-es- Of
-tSiopunlirti.V.i.e.tri412?_to, rel. over Certain addi-
plmrpesbeelf,i44'0,S4-5 ,11-'.11theeljr,.wh_eiysapiele:;'/??'it-f9hr4:t-t'hbaet-
triThe ttbritod*Sjy,:z- t.1:1-4k4atnjrn' Ode 'gear 'diet
io_pv: top waa no longer bound by
the earlier forecat.
K40i-1 .,491sTeiet Aaic4is'
Lien.
, TYTH K
,NA, May
-
/4.14a
Nguyen IChanh paid form all tributo
today to the Americans who have died _de-
fending South Vietnam from the
Re .aWarcl.ec1 the eed al of the s ommonder
Oen, ,chaileo, -9
es;etYn?lient;CtieftoofIlitabje.
Military Assistance Advisory Group in South
Vietnam.
The citatIon to. General ,TiMin- PS Said ,he
bad showed.showed.Traidewortny: spirit Colo,p-
eratioxi."
Turning to the Americanoffipers present,
Pr.914Pr Zhgnh said "ii
ghl on our side. e
on the Vietnaineae 'Side, it is
't more _SO
A il.1
come to
For you, Our Americanfriends,Whe have
"I want, to say here how we aPpre-
,,,,uisteyeour Tra41,
;?7aeFITIPeq..71gu_ceh rethan_ qco
nex,e l/4, ay," ?given tb_etr Dyes jto
448 lb proud them. _ They have
lied eo,13.
that niuicinLot -Vietuameec_remain
gusts ?AtrENers
rThe atvreld Ceremony for General Timmes
was attende,d by 'Gen, Paul D. Harkins, out-
going commanding general of the American
Military Assistance Command, which was
recently enlarged to include the function's
Of the Military Assistance Advisory Group.
Meanwhile, in a move aimed at -tempering
religious conflicts betWeen Buddhists and
Roman Catholics in central Vietnam, the
Justice Ministry today announced the post-
ponement of the trial of former Maj. Dang
Sy, commander of troops' that fired upon
Buddhist demonstrators in Hue a year ago.
The' Government Said the trial would be
postponed from Monday until after the
Buddhist celebrations Set- for May 26.
"[Prom the New "York Tithes, May 15, 1964]
TEXT or THE MCNAMARA-TAYLOR NEWS
CONFERENCE
WASHINGTON, May 14.?Following is the text
of the remarks about Vietnam by Secretary of
Defense Robert S. McNamara and Gen. Max-
well D. Taylor, Chairman of Joint Chiefs of
Staff, at a news conference in the White
-House today:
- Mr. MCNAMARA. Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen. Perhaps General Taylor and I can
give you a few words of comment of what
-we found during our recent visit to Saigon
and then respond to a few of your questions.
-There is no question in our minds but what
the Communists have stepped up their rate
-of attack in recent weeks in South Vietnam
-primarily against the rural population and
primarily in the form of tactics designed to
harass the rural population, to instill terror
in them, to erode away their confidence in
the ability of their Government to provide
for their physical security.
These attacks have taken the forms of kid-
mapings, ambushes, murders?terrors of
every form. They have been directed par-
ticularly against the leaders of the provincial
-governments, the district governments, the
- -villages. They have kidnaped district
-chiefs, for example, and literally cut off their
heads. They have ambushed the officials of
the districts and the provinces. One of these
ambushes took place while we were there.
The rate of kidnaPings, murders, am-
bushes has increased very substantially in re-
cent weeks. It is absolutely essential, there-
fore that the Government of Vietnam in-
crease its activity to counter these attacks
and that we consider ways and means
through increased economic assistance, in-
creased military support to assist the Gov-
ernment of Vietnam in that activity.
INCREASE IN FORCES SOUGHT "
. .
We have, agreed with them that their regu-
lar military forces and their paramilitary
forcea must be increased in size very sub-
Stantially and very soon. We have agreed
that . the number of aircraft in the Viet-
namese Air Force must be increased.
While General Taylor and I were there in
early March, we agreed we should have added
75 A-1 type aircraft to the Vietnamese Air
Force. Yesterday , we considered it desirable
to increase by 100 percent the number of
Vietnamese pilots and to further strengthen
that air force, and this will be done very
promptly.
Other steps that will add to the ability to
effectively protect the rural population have
also been agreed upon and will be under-
taken soon.
Perhaps T can respond to some of your
questions and General Taylor as well.
EXTENSION OF WAR DISCUSSED
Question. Mr. Secretary, you say it is ab-
solutely essential for the Government to
counter these attacks. Does this or does
-this not argue that maybe the war ought to
be carried across into North Vietnam from
which the logistics and other suppliers come?
Answer. I think you would agree that to
counter effective terror tactics of the type
that are being directed against the rural
population requires action on, the soil of
Sonth Vietnam, and a proper response to
41tC terror tactics directed against that
rural population would not be reliance upon
military pressure upon the north. This is
not to exclude that as a possible action.
Whether or not such action is undertaken
however, it can only be considered a sup-
plement to and not a substitute for effec-
tive action on the soil of South Vietnam.
Question. Mr. Secretary, does this stepup
in the war and the need for putting more
men and planes in make obsolete the Ken-
nedy plan for U.S. withdrawal by 1965?
Answer. I think we should recognize that
our primary function Is one of training, sup-
port, and logistical assistance. As the U.S.
units in South Vietnam complete their train-
ing functions, I am sure you would all agree
that they should be withdrawn. It may be
necessary in order to expand the training,
particularly for the increases in the regular
and paramilitary forces of South Vietnam,
to send, over certain additional U.S. person-
nel. If that becomes necessary, they will be
sent for that purpose.
Question. Mr. Secretary, I understand you
have been directed to come before the House
Armed Service Committee to retell your find-
ings on the Vietnamese war. When will you
go?
Answer. I have been told this morning, al-
though I have not actually checked it with
the committee yet, that they would like me
to come before them next Tuesday, and if
that be the case, ,I will be delighted to do
so.
Question. Mr. Secretary, there are reports
that the South Vietnamese Government is
in particular trouble because of many of the
leaders in the area just south of Saigon hav-
ing been shifted around by the new Govern-
ment so extensively that they just can't seem
to get themselves organized. Is this one of
the things you have looked into and is it
true?
Answer. There have been frequent changes
of government and, government leaders.
Since the first of November, in 35 of the 41
Provinces, there have been changes in Prov-
ince chiefs. In nine of the Provinces, I be-
lieve the Province chiefs have been changed
three times since the first of November. This
was to be expected as an aftermath of the
two changes in the national government.
The village, the district, and the Provincial
levels however, are seeing a stabilization of
personnel at the present time, and I have
every reason to believe that the number of
changes will decline substantially in the fu-
ture. ?
CHANGES IN MILITARY CHIEFS
Question. Have there been similar changes
with military leaders?
_Answer. There have been changes in mili-
tary leaders as well since the first of Novem-
ber, but the frequency of such changes is
declining dramatically.
Question. Mr. Secretary, did the President
approve any specific plan of step-up this
morning?
Answer. The President is considering the
suggestions made for increased economic and
military support.'
Question. When do you anticipate a deci-
sion?
Answer. We expect to meet again tomor-
row and the next day on these questions.
-Question. What would be your estimate,
sir, of how many more U.S. training person-
nel woula be _needed In Vietnam?
Answer. I think, on balance, the number
is not likely to increase substantially. There
will be both increases and decreases associ-
ated with the strengthening of the Vietnam-
ese forces.
Question. Is there any possibility that our
returning personnel will be augmented by
people from Taiwan and similar other allies?
Answer. I think if is highly desirable that
other flags be represented particularly in
such areas, for example, as the supply of
medical personnel and the supply of train-
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11358 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
ing and advisory personnel. As you know,
both Secretary Rusk and I have approached
other governments requesting such as-
sistance.
Question. Have there been any accept-
ances?
Answer. I have received a very sympathetic
response to the requests I have made. I have
not had a chance to discuss with Secretary
Rusk the discussions he has held during the
past week.
Question. Can you name some of the coun-
tries?
Answer. I think it would be better to wait
until they themselves are ready to announce
official action in response to our request.
Question. Mr. Secretary, how do you feel
the war has been reported out there?
Answer. I think all of you are perhaps bet-
ter qualified to discuss that than I. On bal-
ance, to answer your question specifically. I
think the reporting has been very good. Rec-
ognizing the fact that in a very real sense
we have 41 different wars, and it is extremely
difficult for any one man, any one reporter
to intimately be acquainted with all of the
variations in the military actions and guer-
rilla actions that are occurring particularly
when you recognize the character of those
actions.
As I stressed a moment ago, these are terror
tactics, terror operations directed against in-
dividuals, and you can well imagine the dif-
ficulty of reporting that kind of war in 41
different provinces.
COMPARISON SOUGHT
Question, Mr, Secretary, would you com-
pare the conduct of the war now with your
last visit as only making progress?
Answer. I think we are, and I remain per-
sonally convinced?and I would like to have
General Taylor who is far better qualified
than I to speak to this?that persistent
execution of the political-military plans of
General Khanh's government, plans that
they have developed and that we have con-
curred in and have agreed to provide assist-
ance, will lead to successful conclusion war.
But I want to emphasize it is not going to
come soon. This is not that kind of war.
This a war for the confidence of the people
and the security of those people, and that
kind of war is a long, hard war.
Question. What measures do you recom-
mend?
Answer. Let me suggest that General
Taylor comment on this same question.
General TAYLOR. I could add very little
more except to say that General Khanh im-
presses me as a very energetic military leader.
He thoroughly comprehends this complicated
war?that it is not purely military by any
manner of means but involves political and
economic facets as well.
/ think (that) it is very encouraging and
perhaps surprising to find in a young man
who has so quickly pulled together the many
facets of this problem. However, as the Sec-
retary has said, this is not something that
can be done overnight. The programs being
executed are involved, they are complicated,
and I think they would test any government.
Question. General, how do you find the
young officers in the South Vietnamese mili-
tary forces?
Answer. Somewhat like the young officers
in Korea, whom I know much better. They
try hard. They are generally courageous.
They have very little professional back-
ground, however. They make the mistakes
of relatively untrained officers. However, the
officer corps is growing and maturing every
month and with time, of course, will be
constantly better and more effective.
Question. General, do we know why the
Communists,have changed their tactics re-
cently?
Answer. I don't think they have changed it
in quantity so much as they have in quality.
They have taken very heavy losses, as you
know, in recent weeks. This cannot be
pleasant for them especially when one con-
siders that a wounded man for them is very
frequently a fatality. Hence, it is quite un-
derstandable that they have shifted now,
making the populace more the target rather
than the formed bodies of troops.
THC ADVERSARY IN VIETNAM
(By Bernard B. Fall)
As the analysis published in the April issue
of War/Peace Report clearly showed, there
Is some room for debate as to who exactly
the adversary is in what many already call
the "Second Indochina War." Some see the
National Liberation Front of South Vietnam
(NLF) as a genuinely local insurrection
created out of despair in the face of the
late Diem regime's absurd policies. Others
(and this is the official view) consider the
NLF solely an extension, for use in South
Vietnam, of the North Vietnamese regime or
even of Peiping. Each side adduces its own
evidence to prove its case: on one hand it is
contended that even the NLF "regulars" are
indeed **southerners" (which is true) and on
the other, one points to the captured Com-
munist bloc weapons to substantiate outside
Communist support (also true). Obviously.
the actual facts lie somewhere in between.
In my view, and on the basis of my own
experience in underground warfare in Nazi-
occupied France and later in Indochina, it is
possible to lead an insurrection politically
and militarily even under guerrilla condi-
tions. That such a fairly centralized direc-
tion exists in the south, and has existed at
least since 1957, if not earlier, can be fully
substantiated. When the killing of village
officials began on a large scale in 1957 (an
officially admitted total of 472 were killed
that year). significant cltusterings of the
killings or-au-red in three Vietnamese prov-
inces south of the Mekong River. That ob-
viously did not happen simply because the
village officials were more oppressive there
than anywhere else, but simply because the
guerrilla command had decided to clear those
areas for the purpose of making them the
permanent resistance bases they have since
become. And the deliberate shift last year
of Vietcong operations from the Vietnamese
highlands to the Mekong Delta was another
magnificently executed military tactic, with
regular units slipping through the network
of U.S.-advised South Vietnamese units with
almost impunity.
Unbelievably, that deliberate Vietcong
move into the Mekong Delta was officially ex-
plained away by the United States as part of
"our strategy to sweep them steadily south-
ward and finally corner them"; i.e., sweep the
Vietcong out of an area where recruits and
food were hard to get and into an area where
food and recruits are plentiful and where all
of Vietnam's most sensitive targets lay, in-
cluding Saigon, with its industries, airports
and Government installations.
True, there has been a great deal of exag-
gerated propaganda in Washington and else-
where about Chinese and Russian help to the
insurgents in view of the presence in South
Vietnam of some Soviet- or Chinese-made
antitank weapons and automatic rifles. As
Arthur Dommen correctly assumes, the bulk
of this ordnance comes from Laos. And the
fact, for example, that some excellent Mads-
den submachineguns?produced in Denmark,
a NATO ally?have been found among the
Vietcong does not ipso facto prove that Den-
mark backs the Communists in Vietnam; it
simply means that arms merchants have no
national loyalties. Soviet-made guns (cap-
tured by the Israelis in Egypt and resold by
them on the world's arms market) can be
bought within a mile of the Pentagon on the
Alexandria. Va., docks?and quite legally, too.
The unfortunate fact is that nine-tenths of
all modern weapons in Vietcong hands are
standard American weapons captured from
the South Vietnamese military and paramili-
tary forces. Officially, the loss of over 12,000
such weapons in 1963 is acknowledged.
What the South Vietnamese may have lost
but not reported to their own higher com-
manders or the U.S. military advisory com-
mand, may run much higher. It is obviously
far better and easier for the Vietcong to cap-
ture matching ammunition for their Amer-
ican weapons from "our" Vietnamese than to
get Soviet or Chinese ammunition from
Hanoi.
But aid in the form of political and mili-
tary cadres does come from the North, as
well as some fully constituted regular units
composed of southern Vietnamese and moun-
tain tribal soldiers. The presence in the
South of the 120th, 126th, and 803d Vietcong
regiments has been well known for the past
2 years and, according to the New York Times
of April 13, 1964, the 108th Regiment has re-
cently been identified in central Vietnam
If that is true, then the Vietcong has recon-
stituted in central Vietnam all the regular
regiments which I knew there during the
French-Indochinese war. The 803d and the
108th were particularly dreaded for their
junglegoing capability; in June 1954, they
mercilessly destroyed a French regimental
combat team equipped with tanks and artil-
lery whose core units had successfuly fought
the Chinese and North Koreans while with
the U.N. forces in Korea. Those regiments left
South Vietnam in 1854 for the North. Their
presence now inside South Vietnam certainly
constitutes what the International Control
Commission for the maintenance of the 1959
ceasefire provisions has called (with the vote
of its Indian and Canadian members over-
ruling the objections of its Polish member)
"evidence that armed and unarmed person-
nel, arms, munitions and other supplier
have been sent from the zone in the NortY
to the zone in the South with the object 01
supporting, organizing and carrying out hos-
tile activities."
NO LZGAL REDRESS
It is true, as my compatriot Philippe De-
villers said in his article written in 1961
(i.e., long before the NLF developed to it
present importance), that many simplc
farmers and even urban politicians and in-
tellectuals chose to fight with the Vietcon?
rather than face the certitude of an inde-
finite stay in one of Diem's infamous con-
centration camps. That will always be tin
case when men with real grievances are pm
into a position where no legal redress it
offered them. The same situation occurrec
in 1946 when the French, still hell-beni
upon rebuilding their colonial empire, of-
fered no honorable way out to the nationalist
Vietnamese opposition. The most active op-
position members joined the Vietminh in it:
armed struggle against the French?not for
the purpose of making Vietnam Communist
but to make it free.
This history does not mean, however, thal
the Vietminh was not Communist-controller
nor that it did not end by creating a wholl:
Communist-dominated state in the zone o
Vietnam under its control. The same error
I fear, is being made in evaluating the NLF
The fact that its program does not at presen
contain Communist objectives offers littl
guarantee as to its future intentions. I def
anyone to find a single Communist inflectioi
in Ho Chi Minh's 1946 Vietminh constitu
tion. It was a document designed to wi:
maximum support among the broad popiila
tion, and it did that most effectively. An
the reason offered quite openly by Nort
Vietnam in 1960 for the abrogation of tb
1946 document and its replacement by
tough, Communist-line constitution SW
that the old constitution "no longer was
accordance with Socialist realities." That
In all likelihood what would happen to ti
present NLF program the day that Prot
comes to power in Saigon.
This does not mean, however, that I est:.
with those who believe that the only wi
out of the present Vietnamese dilemma is
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- 1964 _CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE 11359
-
rice. (During the war against the French, the
standard for Vietminh troops was 250 grams
daily, and I noticed how robust were the
front soldiers of 1964 compared with the
lean troops I had seen 10 years earlier at the
time of Dienbienphu).
The standard arm, is the U.S. carbine, with
a fair sprinkling of the much appreciated
Garands. Of course, the front soldier, like
the Vietminh soldier before him, marches
on the famous Ho Chi Minh sandals. The
only difference is that Michelin has been
replaced by Goodyear. The soles are from
auto tires, the four thongs which keep them
in place being strips of inner tubes. They
are by far the most comfortable form of
footwear ever devised for heat and jungle
conditions. With such equipment, a front
battalion can march 15 miles after dark to
attack and destroy a post, and march back
to its base with the booty before sunup.
(In tropical South Vietnam, there are at least
12 hours of darkness every day/of the ,rear).
In Cu Chi district, which starts at about
7 miles north of Saigon, I was shown a
battered old U.S. carbine, introduced to me
as "our mother carbine." After a large seiz-
ure of arms at Tua Hai near Tay Ninh, in
February 1960, Cu Chi and the five other dis-
tricts of Gia Dinh, the province in which Sai-
gon is situated, each received one carbine.
"Each carbine has had many litters of chil-
dren since," a local front leader explained
with a grin. "With that one carbine and lots
of dummy wooden guns and explosions pro-
duced from carbide for bicycle lamps, we
very soon attacked our first post, and re-
placed our dummy guns with real ones."
20-year counterguerrilla operation. Here
again the histericai precedents, show various
pestibilities; _
1. COMMunist guerrillas do not always
win and the Soviet bloc does net always sup-
port them to the bitter end. ?The Commu-
nista ahandOne.cl 4?heir, guerrillas in Greece,
Azerbaijan, Malaya, and the Philippines--
and in Swath Korea, where there was for a
long time a serious guerrilla problem. Milo-
van. Djilas' "Conversations With Stalin" has
a Magnificent passage on Stalin's cold-
blooded 'decision to, let the Greek Commu-
nist ELAS- partisans die for nothing because
he diclnet want te get war-exhausted Rus-
sia entangled in a conflict with the United
States. _ -
2. On the sitar hand, to negotiate with a
Comnaimist opponent when one's original
War Ainis are n9 longer attainable does not
autematioally mean that one has to lose. his
shirt; or that native forces being supported
will therefore be totally demoralized. In
Korea some of the toughest fighting went on
While American and conniannist negotiators
sat at Panmunjom for 2 years. The Republic
of Korea forces Were not demoralized by the
negotiations. My own experience has been
that one fights harder if a reasonable end is
In sight and one knows his side needs a vie=
tory to strengthen its negotiating position.
To be sure, the Laotian "sellout" of 1962
is usually dragged in at this point of the
argument to prove hew badly the West
'usually fares in SUCH a situation. It was the
late Gen. Walter Bedell Smith, a soldier-
diplomat of the first rank, who said during
the 1054 Genera conference that it was "dif-
ficult to regain at the conference table what
has already been lost on the battlefield." In
Laos, thanks to a set of incredible illusions
(now amply matched in Vietnam) , it was be-
lieved that the Laotian .rightwing forces
could be made to fight. The hard fact is that
had the military war in Lace continued for
.1 more month, all of Laos would, have been
COminuniSt. put as a moult of the negotia-
tions a wobbly neutralist government has,
for the past 2 years, kept the Communist
rathet Lae AWay from the sensitive Mekong
Valley which borders on Thailand. Consid-
ering the panic that gripped Bangkok in
1962 when it was erroneously announced
that Ceminimist forces had broken through
to the Mekong near Ban Houel Sal, that
surely is an achievement. A Communist ad-
vance there could never , have been halted
Without at least very sizable American ground
forces being ,committed at fanta,stic cost.
3. The North VietnanieSe stand to lose at
least as much (if not more) than the South
Vietnamese if the present second Indochina
war "escalates." North Vietnam has not had
a shot fired at it in anger in 10 years. One
Stands an awful lot of dictatorship (look at
Franco's Spain) just for the sake of not be-
ing at war._ A single American saturation
raid on North Vietriani may do away with
10 years of back-breaking "ocialist construc-
tion" as well as with that feeling of peace.
It would not (contrary to what some great
oversimpliflers believe) bring an end to the
insurgency hi South Vietnam; on the con-
trary, with the gloves being off, North Viet- 1-
with the NLF or Hanoi (one might well won-
der whether this might not be more embar-
rasing in a tete-a-tete than at a multipower
conference which is now being heatedly re-
jected) with as badly a deteriorated military
situation as exists now?and just before a
presidential election. And it is likewise ob-
vious that General Khanh's regime in Saigon,
whose rise to power was favored precisely be-
cause he violently rejects any thought of
negotiation, would view such contacts as a
sellout. There is, after all, in neighboring
Laos the example of the rightist General
Phoumi, who was first encouraged to over-
throw neutralist Prince Souvanna Phouma,
only to be pressured 1 year later into accept-
ing (and, in fact, supporting) the same
souvanna Phouma as premier of a troika
regime. Khanh would understandably re-
sent being placed in the same kind of pre-
dicament. '
But signs of a military stalemate?harder
to perceive in Vietnam where there is no
battleline to draw on maps, as there was in
Korea?are nevertheless apparent. And the
sole logical exit from such a situation is
sooner or later a confrontation at the con-
ference table.
(From the National Guardian, May 21, 1964]
BURCHETT IN VIETNAM: U.S. TAXPAYERS ARM
GUERRILLAS
(By Wilfred G. Burchett)
FROM A LIBERATION FRONT BASE IN SOUTH
VIETNAM.?Lf a delegation of U.S. taxpayers
could have made the sort of journey I made
they would have been scandalized. On one
occasion, along a road in Tay Ninh Province
which had been built with U.S. equipment in
1061 and had now been reduced by the
guerrillas to a serpentine track just wide
enough for bicycles and foot soldiers, we
overtook a long line of National Liberation
Front troops who were shifting their base.
From behind the first impression was of an
endless undulating line of white triangles,
but as we grew closer, the white triangles
turned out to be flour-bag haversacks, each
bearing the clasped hands of friendship above
the U.S. flag and the printed words: "Gift of
the American people."
As seen from behind, the typical Vietcong
or Giai Phong Qua.n (liberation army)
soldier, as they call themselves, is an inter-
esting study. Attached to his webbing belt,
from left to right, is first a tiny ingenious
bottle lamp. It is made from French perfume
bottles, with the top bored through to take
a metal-encased wick which pops out auto-
matically when the brass cap is removed.
Cap and wick casing are made from U.S.
cartridges. It is this tiny lamp that lights
the way along jungle paths for night attacks.
Next to the lamp hangs a bunch of hand
grenades, made in NLF jungle arsenals; one
I visited was turning out 5,000 grenades a
month, and there are many such.
Alongside the grenades is another "secret
weapon" of the guerrillas, the nylon ham-
mock which is standard equipment. Usually
made from parachute nylon, it folds up
into the space of a handkerchief; slung by
s
arachute cords between trees, it is the per.
ect guerrilla bed. I slept in nothing else
or almost 5 months and?with a mosquito
et slung above and tucked in all areund?I
ound it the most admirable sleeping equip.
end for jungle travel. It can be slung and
n.slung in a matter of seconds, just the time
ecessary to pull the cords at each end?a
hal factor in guerrilla conditions which de-
and shifting camp at a moment's notice.
Alongside the hammock is a water can-
een, mostly with a big "U.S." on the cloth
ontainer, but some hammered out from U.S.
lane remnants and covered with NLF con-
ainers made in a jungle uniform factory.
inally, there is what looks like a sizable
und bomb, wrapped in parachute cloth?in
ct the day's ration of 750 grams of cooked
nam would then throw her fearsonie (and ff
now unemployed) regular divisions into the n
fight-3.nd who can say what Red China f
might throw in, That would "Koreanize"?
or shall we say: "MacArthurize?"--the South .^"
Vietnamese Conflict with all the unforesee- -
able international consequences (in 1950, the ,
nuclear age was in its infancy and the U.N. '
still white dominated) that might follow. ni
,SOLE LOBICAL EXIT_ t
It is my feeling that some sort of a c
mutually acceptable accommodation will p
eventually ensue from a more realistic ap- t
preciation. of what the three above-cited F,
factor really mean. It is understandable ro
that Washington does net wish to negotiate fa
In many other places I visited, I was told
that their first weapons had come from the
Tua Hai booty. Later, I tracked down Quyet
Thang, the commander of the Tua Hai ac-
tion a rawboned peasant who had been a
guerrilla leader in the anti-French war. As
this was the first large-scale military act in
the Nambo (Cochin-China), I was interested
in the details. The Liberation Front had not
officially been set up in February 1960, when
the Tua Hai action took place, but Quyet
Thang explained that local committees ex-
isted and that "the word had gone around"
to set up self-defense units to resist the
armed raids of the Diemist troops.
"Some of us who had taken part in the
anti-French war got together secretly and
we agreed that we had to start armed resist-
ance?but first we must have arms. The
Diemists just then were conducting a sweep
through Tay Ninh province with two divi-
sions. Our plan was to set up a battalion
of guerrillas and then attack the Tua Hai
fortress, where we knew there was a large
stock of arms."
Over the next few months they combed
the whole province for all weapons, no matter
how old, that existed, This was an area to
which the armed sects, Hoa Hoa, Cao Dai,
and Binh Xuyen, had withdrawn in 1955,
after having been crushed by Diem troops.
Altogether Quyet Thank was able to muster
260 men, a few former resistance fighters
like himself, but the majority youngsters
who had fled to the forest to escape Diem's
conscription gangs. "We also had 170 weap-
ons, an ill-assorted lot, many of them archaic,
and a strictly limited number of cartridges,"
Quyet Thang said. "Through some former
resistance fighters who had been conscripted
and were garrisoned at Tua Hai, we managed
to smuggle scouts inside and examine the
Whole layout."
Tua Hai was?and still is?a formidable,
square fortress built by the French. At the
time Quyet Thang's men attacked, it was
the garrison headquarters for the 32d Regi-
ment of Diem's 21st Division, situated only
about 2 miles north of Tay Ninh. "Our aim
was to obtain 300 weapons and explain to
the troops_ why we were fighting. We had
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11360 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
prepared some leaflets signed by the Peoplea'creeping up in.. the United States?and on To this must be added a grim probability.
Self-Defense Forces.
this poor country, too. The probability is that the U.S. military lead-
Scouts managed to infiltrate in the small The disaster is a final Communist triumph ership out here is wrong in its belief that
hours of the morning and placed mines all in South Vietnam. What is happening in our continuing superiority in firepower and
around the main barracks. The explosion Laos Is peripheral, for the future of Laos mobility will overcome any crisis the enemy
of the mines was the signal for a general will eventually be settled by the outcome can create.
assault: "Within seconds the barracks were here in Vietnam. Firepower and mobility cannot be ex-
ablaze, panic-stricken troops were racing for What is happening in Laos is a clear warn- plotted to win a battle begun by surprise at
shelter, and our men had poured over the nig that the Communist timetable is much dusk, and over and finished before sunrise.
rampart* to wipe out the command post and shorter than the Washington policymskers Yet a night's battle, ending in capture or
seize the arms depots." Quyet 'Mang said, seem to suppose. destruction by the Communists of no more
When I asked where the mines came from. Even if the Communist advance proceeds than a thousand or two thousand Vletna-
he said some mine-making experts from the no further and an immediate crisis show- mese Reentsrs, might well cause the kind of
anti-French war had fashioned them from down is thereby avoided, the alms--and paroxysm of alarm and defeatism that would
TNT from unexploded U.S. bombe and shells, gains?of the enemy are obvious. To be- bring this war to an end.
Timed for the moment of the assault was the gin with, they have gained elbow room in This is the crucial point. The position in
arrival of 500 porters to carry off the booty. Laos, the corridor country. which will be Vietnam today?is above all?fragile. To
very useful In a future crisis of the war in shatter this fragile position for good and all,
hi-
"In the arms depot there were thousands
of weapons, the regimental stock and lots of
spares. We piled them up and our fighters
threw away their old weapons, grabbed the
new ones and rushed off to continue the
fight. The enemy rushed out of the fortress,
then reformed and tried to assault us, but
by then all the watchtowers were In our
hands and their machineguns also. After
almost 2 hours of fighting it was all over.
and more than 800 rifles, and scores of pistols
and machinegUns were in our hands. We
carried off about 1,000 weapons in all, and
could have had many more had we been able
to transport them. There were lots of 578
mm. recoil-less cannon. I didn't know what
they were, but we took five along anyway.
Later they were very useful against block-
houses and amphibious tanks."
The guerrillas. outnumbered by about 10
to 1, lost 10 dead and 12 wounded in the
action. About 300 weapons were kept for the
battalion, and the others were djstributed to
virtually every district in Cochin-China. and
became the mother weapons which quickly
started the process of rapid reproduction.
Historians may later set the Pus Hai ac-
tion as the beginning of the war in South
though this would not be accurate.
Vietnam. the enemy nee
They have gained in Vietnam, too, since tious as the fight at Dienbienphu?a small
unpunished Communist successes in Laos battle but one that went on for a long time.
naturally cause Vietnamese doubts about In one night, almost before we know it,
AMRIICA'S strength of will. And finally, the we may be overtaken by the disaster that is
Communists policymakers in Hanoi must creeping up on us.
also be concluding that they have made an
Important test of this American strength
of will, with delightfully encouraging re-
sults.
Hence the Laotian warning is dangerous to
ignore. Yet it is far more dangerous to Ig-
nore or misread what is happening here in
South Vietnam. In a nutshell, the war effort
here is approaching a breaking point.
There are three solid reasons for believing
that the breaking point may not be far off?
unless the United States begins to take pre-
ventive action. The first reason Is simply
the growth of war weariness, the loss of
patience and endurance. These have been
the most striking consequences of the suc-
cessive coups d'etat, beginning with the fall
of President Ngo Dinh Diem.
The psychological climate is therefore un-
healthy. as the desertion rates in the army
and civil guard units clearly attest. The
hope of creating a healthier psychological
Vietnam
Nonetheless, it was the first large-scale ac- climate is all too slim, in turn. because Of the
tion by the people's self-defense forces that unhealthy military situation.
were later organized under a unified corn- President Johnson has asked for more aid
mend into today's liberation army. The Pus for South Vietnam. and he has told Congress
Hal action set the pattern for the innumer- that the new, more vigorous leadership of
able attacks on posts which still today re- Gen. Nguyen Khanh is a very hopeful factor.
main the principal suppliers of arms and Be is dead right on both points. But he
ammunition, might better have told Congress that even
"As a matter of fact." -concluded Quyet the efforts of General Khanh. vigorously
Tbang with a grin, "we were a bit worried aided by the United States, are most unlikely
as to what our people would say after the to turn the tide here. By doing more of the
attack. The line at that time was to use usual things, we can at best hold on.
arms only in self-defense. Only after the Tlae enemy is attacking in heavier and
front was officially formed 10 months later heavier strength. often with disturbing ene-
mas this changed. ill ut we figured that as ease. To turn the tide, General 'Chetah needs
most places had no arms at all even for to find another 150.000 men, to fill up his
self-defense, we had to get arms. So we de- exng units and to create the additional
cided to call this a self-defense action." forces planned with Secretary of Defense
Robert McNamara. Without these added
If the American taxpayers' delegation men. Khania has no margin of advantage.
would be scandalized to see all these fine But as the alarming desertion rate too plainly
arms in the hands of the guerrillas, they suggests, recruiting this many more soldiers
would have apoplexy if they were to visit the will be a slow btufiness if not an impossible
jungle arms factories where carbines, light task
[From the Washington Post, May 21, 19841
ADDITIONAL *126 MILLION VIET AID VOTED BY
HOUSE GROUP
(By John G. Norris)
The administration won strong congres-
sional support for its program of stepped-up
aid for South Vietnam yesterday, as the
Rouse Foreign Affairs Committee voted an
additional $125 million for that southeast
Asian countrv.
Both the Foreign Affairs Committee, with
its quick and unanimous approval of the
added assistance. and the House Armed Serv-
ices Committee. through Its chairman, Rep-
resentative CARL Vnesosr, Democrat, of Geor-
gia. expressed their confidence in the admin-
istration's plans.
"I am satisfied with what the (Defense)
Department is doing and with what this
Government is doing," said VINSON, after re-
ceiving a 2-hour report from Defense Secre-
tary Robert B. McNamara. "I am behind
the position of the Secretary in the prose-
cution of the war."
Members of both groups are gloomy over
the deteriorating situation in southeast Asia,
but few see any alternative to continued full
support of South Vietnamese forces fighting
the Communist guerrillas.
FIGURES RELEASED
As the House committee approved the
additional 455 million in military aid and
$70 million in economic aid for South Viet-
nam, the Defense Department declassified
heretof are secret figures showing the scope
of military assistance to that country.
Now budgeted for Vietnamese military aid
In the fiscal year beginning July 1 is $205.8
million, compared to $209.8 million this year
and $211.5 million in fiscal year 1963.
Including economic aid, but not the cost
of maintaining 15.500 American troops there,
the total assistance now contemplated for
automatics, imitation Colt revolvers. moun- South Vietnam during the coming year is
tains of hand grenades, and an incredible $477.8 million, compared to $432.5 million
Meanwhile, in some Provinces In the delta,
' variety of special-purpose mines are being this year and $408.7 million in 1983.
and in Quang Nal in the center of the. coun-
try, the South Vietnamese Regular Army has
made?almost exclusively with U.S. equip- This makes it evident that, until the re-
already lost the upper hand in the contest
meat. Here are U.S. lathes, drills, spot weld- cent decision to ask for an additional $125
with the Communist forces. In- sum, the
re-
era, everything from the generators that million, President Johnson's economy budget
situation already exists that General Giap
power them down to delicate balances for
classically seeks to create. actually called for a cutback to $352.8 million
measuring detonator charges?all U.S. mad in aid for South Vietnam in the coming year.
end most of them with the clasped hands The defending forces are at stretch. and
of friendship and the sign: "Gift of the they have no large, easily mobilizable re- The House Armed Services Committee's
serves. Thus, South Vietnam resembles a closed session was called to inquire into
American people" This legend was also bowl of water, or rather a howl of poison, recent press criticism that obsolescent planes
stamped on the many different bicycles I employed in South Vietnam had caused the
rode and on the outboard motors which pow-
point. Put more into the bowl and there death of two U.S. fliers. In refuting such
which has just reached the brimming-over
ered the many sampans I traveled in. charges. McNamara told the committee that
will be the devil of a mess.
[From the Washington Post, May 20, 19841 Finally, the third reason for intense alarm American and Vietnamtse forces "are receiv-
ing the best equipment available for the
THE NIGHT THIEF GryEs WARNING IS General Ohm's obvious preparation to put
unique task at hand."
a lot more Into the bowl. This is the real
(By Joseph Alsop) meaning of the battalions of North Vletna- se NAMARA TO RETURN
&smote?Like a thief in the night, with mese Communist regulars which are now de- He told newsmen afterward that the equip-
muffled foot slipping from shadow to decep- played just across the Vietnamese border, ment assigned to Vietnam was chosen with
tIve shadow, a great national disaster is in Laos. regard to, first, the "enemy threat"; second
?
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1964 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
11361
."the capability of the Vietnamese to operate adjoining district, is moving more slowly with South Vietnam, Washington decided
for tactical reasons to let the Secretary
General, U Thant, and other members take
the lead in evolving a specific proposal.
Such international action, it is thought,
would not only help the Cambodians, but
also frustrate in some measure the move-
ments of Communist guerrillas: Some of-
ficials are already thinking beyond this pro-
liosal to a time when the United Nations
might receive or even gather reconnaissance
Information about violations of South Viet-
nam's other frontiers.
The significant step, officials explained,
despite Mr. Stevenson's cautious language, ,
lay in the breaking of a 10-year policy that
was developed before the United Nations
learned to function as a peacekeeping agency
notably in the Congo, the Middle East and
most recently in Cyprus.
it"; and' third, "the effectiveness of (the than U.S. authorities would like. But there
equipment) in relation to the operational is hope for an improvement soon, he said.
requirements." U.S. advisers on the Mekong River at
High-performance jet warplanes would not Sadec, the Vietnamese 9th Division's head-
meet these requirements of the guerrilla war, quarters, said Vietcong units had started
officials noted. : ` using Cambodia openly as .a sanctuary. They
. Most of yesterday's session of the House reported 15 Communist incidents and 'at-
Armed Services _Committee dealt with the tacks on Vietnamese frontier posts in 1 day.
broader aspeCtS of tile Vietnamese war, and --
- members, did not get down ' to questions 'From the New York Times, May 22, 1964]
about the obsolescent T-28 and B-26 planks. ra
alEW. ,. rr .S. IDEAS ON ASIA?TENTATIVE STEP To-
McNamara will return _ Monday, with Air WARD INVOLVING U.N. IN AREA IS BREAK IN
Force SeCretary Eugene M:Zuckert, to go into 1O-Ya PATTERN _
this aspect of the war. (By Max Frankel)
=Under questioning by newsmen, McNamara
commented on -reports that Americans are WASHINGTON, May 21.?In its move at the'
'flying most of the air misifOna 'there. He United Nations today, the United States in-
'said "scores' of Vietnamese have been trained jected several new features into its policy
as pilots: that they flew 1,8d0 Sorties in April, for southeast Asia. In effect, officials ac-
and that the amount of their "eomba,,t flying knowledged, they were taking a small and
has increased 800 percent since "januarf 1962. tentative step toward involving the
In his prepared statement to the commit- United Nations in that threatened region,
tee, McNamara said "the road ahead Will be thus breaking a 10-year-old pattern of Wash-
long and hard" but "it is not in our tradi- ington thinking about the problem. -For the
lion to JDAG1/ Off ,when the going gets tough." first time, the United ' States proposed an WASHINGTON, May 21.?In the present crisis
Mentioning Itosciusto; Von Steuben, and international peacekeeping operation on the over Vietnam, it is not only the United States
Pulaski, McNamara said; "The mission of our border between Cambodia and South Viet- that is being tested, but the United Nations
' men IA South Vietnam is the same as the nam. . and the whole postwar system of keeping
mission of those Europeans who came to this The response of other nations will deter- the peace.
'country to train and assist Us in our fight mine whether Washington :would also con- - No doubt Washington has made many mis-
f or liberty." template' a more extensive form of United takes in Vietnam over the last few years, but
Nations observation of South Vietnam's
' [From the New YOrk Times; May 8, 19641 borders with Laos and North Vietnam. at least they were made in defense of honor-
Itir.A14i til FAVOR or IlaoADER-171x0: ,OtyF "SAT-
' For the first time, also, the United -States The
of the United Nations Charter.
able promises and in keeping with the basic
oort pacp.npa As,spaTs U.S. AIs SUEFFIENT
,, , , indicated that it was prepared at any time
The United States did not agree at San
Now at least to debate the entire southeast Asia
situation, including its own actions, in the -Francisco in 1945 to oppose aggression only
, &mop:, SOUTH VIETNAM, gay' 7.?Premier when it was easy or only close to home where
world organization. Hitherto, Washington
Nguyen kharth said today that U.S. aid was its power was predominant, but to try to
has feared the interference of other nations,
sufficient but he wotild welcome help Of any maintain order anywhere in the world.
mistrusted the United Nations and accounted
kind froM other nattous in the ?War against only to the 14 nations that signed the Geneva This is the underlying principle in Viet-
the Oernipuniat guerrillas. _
agreement on former French Indochina in nam, and the Charter of the U.N. is quite
The Prelillei: WAS COMMenting," on efforts 1954 specific about it. It obliges all members to
by the .1'6111186n adthinistration to get 'assist- And for the first time, the United States unite their strength to maintain interns,-
ance from niiinbcis of AC North Atlantic denounced as basically unworkable the sys-
tional peace and security. It states in arti-
Treaty Organization and the Southeast Asia tern of having three-nation commissions cle 1 that the member states shall "take ef-
Treaty Organization. fective collective measures for the prevention
supervise the Indochina accords. Though
President Johnsep said at a ,news confer-
Washington is still trying to get action from and removal of threats to the peace and for
ence in: WaSlilngton yesterday: suppression of acts of aggression. * ? ?"
"I think &good many countries are giving
the commissions of Canadian, Indian, and
And it insists that this be done with the
Polish officials, it virtually wrote off the
serious 6onsicieration ,to-_:inattix4- cOntribu- minimum 9f force necessary.
three-nation format because decisions under
lions in that area to keep communism from THE HARD REALITIES
it could be reached only by unanimous vote.
eriVelopIng that part of the world. And we Officials pointed out that recourse to the This is precisely what the United States
' welcome that help, and We evect to re- United Nations, at least at this stage, cer- has been doing in southeast Asia. It has
ceive it." tainly did not imply reliance upon the world intervened to halt aggression, not to expand
Premier Khaxih cominpnt6d i' organization. That is why the statement by it, to help the South Vietnamese, not to
"We are inyolved in a war with many Prob- the U.S. representative at the United Na- replace them. It has been trying to take
lems, military, ,social, and economic, and we tions Adlai E Stevenson, to the Security effective collective measures for the suppres-
'would welcome any help we could have from ' E.
ow,. ,, , , Council was coupled with a pledge that Mon. of acts of aggression, and its measures
' the free nati ''
_____ 4-_, ,- - , . ? :. , the United States would continue to do would have been more effective if the allies
, xr-D(DS Tans isrr Aio JumluATE what it felt it must do to support non- had made them more collective.
But he said American aid---,which involves Communist regimes in southeast Asia. On purely selfish national grounds, there
16,00l men and money at the rate of $500 Separate demonstrations of force, it is felt, was a good case to be made against any
million a year?was adequate at this stage must accompany diplomatic efforts to em- U.S, intervention in Vietnam. It was over
and he, had no plans to ask Defense Secre- phasize that point. Today's announcement 7,000 miles from our shores. It was rough
tary Robert S. McNamara for more when he of American reconnal6sance flights over the country to defend against guerrilla action.
visits Saigon again next week- Plaines des Jarres in Laos was only the first It could not be sealed off from its arms source
. . . _
The Prprnier described, the IX/Tem:ling via- of several direct warnings of U.S. action, without attacking China. And that was
It?Mr. 1),IcNaniara's fifth, to Vietnam and officials said, not all,
second in 2 months?as routine, One difficulty of bringing Asian problems
. ?.
. The Communist troops in North Vietnam
- , ,
? into the United Nations has been the feeling
"We have no special problems to solve, had helped defeat a French army of 400,000
here that such action would only dramatize
he Said. "We simply want to push our ef- and even now are regarded by many people in
, f C
absence o Communist China from the
forts in the war against the Vietcong." the a South Vietnam not as aggressors but as tough
world organization. Washington dealt with
Premier Ithanh repeated today, the 10th soldiers who helped liberate the peninsula
Peiping, among others, at the 1962 Geneva
anniversary of the fall of ..1DientnenphtL, the from the white French colonialists. Nor was
Conference on Laos, without facing the em-
symbol of F-ran-oe'S loss of In,deebina, that he it ever clear that the people of South Vietnam
barrassing membership question.
opposed the defensive concept of warfare. were as determined to defend the principle
, , . , . .. ., , .
"That sort of philosophy is very bad and PAC/NG MOSCOW'S CHALLENGE of self-help as the United States was to
' defend the principle of collective security.
Accordingly, the adventure was always du-
bious militarily and is now hazardous in the
extreme. The desertions from the South
Vietnamese Army were admited by Secretary
of State Rusk on Capitol Hill today to be
much greater than most observers here had
believed, and fear of assassination is helping
paralyze the war effort of the South Vietna-
mese Government,
Gen. Nguyen Khanh, the South Vietna-
mese Premier, lives in such fear for his life
,
[From the New York Times, May 22, 1961]
THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE IN VIETNAM
(By James Reston)
would eventually lead to defeat," he said. Another difficulty has been the fear that
_
,an appeal to the United Nations would be
w?s?Am"..0,e?-',""`E4 , interpreted in South Vietnam and in United
Elsewhere, U.S. officials,tekekia somber view States political discussions as defeatist. But
of two aspects of the war--the_"plear and because the current debate was initiated
hold" program tnat impressed Mr. McNamara by the Soviet Union and at a time when
on his visit in March and,?compaimist?opera- Washington was vowing resistance, officials
tions agoes the -, Carabesh5n-Vietnamese seized the opportunity offered by Moscow's
frontier, , challenge.
'A high'American source said the pacifica- Thus far, the U.S. offer of support for
tion program, under which troops Move out United Nations actions extends only to the
from a secure base to clear and then hold an problem of securing Cambodia's frontier
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
that he sleeps one place one night and an-
other the next. The Communist attacks have
increased and their terroristic tactics have
spread right into Saigon.
Nevertheless, none of this removes the need
for defending the principle of collective ac-
tion. That need is just as great now as it
was when the U.N. Charter was written, or
when the fighting broke out in !Corea or the
Congo. And even the French. who want to
neutralize Vietnam but cannot tell us how
it Is to be done, concede that only by con-
tinued collective a ction in Vietnam?by
which they mean American action?will the
whole of southeast Asia be saved from con-
quest by the Communists.
THE NEUTRAL= alarm
Meanwhile, in the midst of all the present
recriminations about the present mesa in
Vietnam and Laos, it may be useful to de-
fine what the immediate danger is. It is not
that South Vietnam is about to be overrun
by the Communists. It is not that the
United States is preparing to attack North
Vietnam or even order its; own troops into the
South Vietnamese units, It is that the South
Vietnamese Government will be overthrown
by a neutralist coup and that the United
States will then be invited to leave.
In this fragile situation, even casual talk
of Ideal solutions or neutralization can
be dangerous. There are no ideal solutions
and even to reach the point of an honorable
settlement means suppression of the Com-
munist aggression. It means, above all, keep-
ing in mind the collective security principle
of the U.N? and urging other member na-
tions to do the same.
[From the New York Times, May 22, 19841
THE INDOCHINA PROBLEM
In his speech at the 'United Nations yester-
day, dramatized by his sudden recall from
Europe, Adis! E. Stevenson emphasized
American support for a U.N. role in helping
end the friction on the ill-marked frontier
between South Vietnam and Cambodia. He
effectively refuted the baseless charges about
American "aggression" made by Soviet Am-
bassador Fedorenko earlier this week when
the latter relapsed into language reminiscent
of the worst days of the cold war. And Am-
bassador Stevenson made clear that the
United States will abandon neither the peo-
ple of South Vietnam nor our military effort
there.
The basic problem of American policy in
what was once French Indochina also
emerged clearly from the Stevenson speech.
The United States would like to have a re-
turn to the political solutions armed upon
In the two Geneva conferences in 1964 and
1962. How is that to be accomplished,
especially now when the Communist forces
in South Vietnam and Laos alike believe they
have the upper hand militarily?
As we suggested on this page yesterday,
the United States may have to intensify its
military support of the South Vietnamese
before a peaceful settlement can be envisaged.
But it would be futile to pursue the will-o'-
the-wisp of a total victory in southeast Asia,
short of embarking on an all-out war that
under present circumstances the people of
the United States would neither want nor
accept. And if we cannot win a clear-cut
military victory in this area, the power of
the United States is such that the Commu-
nists must realize that they cannot either
and that they, aa well as we, will ultimately
have to accept a political solution arrived at
through negotiation.
President de Gentle is presumably aiming
for such a political solution in calling for an
International conference on Laos, but events
have already shown that the individual parts
of Indochina cannot be considered in isola-
tion. If there is to be serious negotiation.
it must consider the total situation in all
four states: the two Vietnams. lene and
Cambodia. The objective must be restora-
tion of peace on the basis of the Geneva ac-
cords of 1954.
The purpose of any intensified American
military effort in Indochina?should that be
necessary?must be to make clear to Hanoi,
Peiping, and Moscow that they are running
unacceptable risks if they persist in their
present policy. But at the same time we
have the obligation?and are under the
necessity?of holding forward the possibility
of a political negotiation that could bring
lasting peace ea the area and make it possible
eventually to get our troops out of this part
of southeast Asia.
(From the New York Times, May 22, 19641
TWIT Or Srresersow's SPEECH AT U.N. AND
Excise-re PROM Petooaraexo's RZPLY
ADDRESS BY MR. STEVENSON
The facts about the incidents at issue are
relatively simple and clear.
The Government of the Republic of Viet-
nam did in tact mistakenly cross the
Ill-
marked frontier between their country and
Cambodia in pursuit of armed terrorists on
May 7 and May 8 and on earlier occasions.
That has been repeated and acknowledged
here again today by the representative of
Vietnam.
The Government of Vietnam has expressed
Its regrets of the tragic consequences.
It has endeavored to initiate bilateral dis-
cussions with the Cambodian Government
In order to remove the cause of these in-
cidents.
But these efforts have not yet produced
any useful results.
These incidents. Mr. President can only
be assessed intelligently in the light of the
surrounding facts: namely, the armed con-
spiracy which seeks to destroy the Govern-
ment of Vietnam and the very society of
Vietnam itself.
Mr. President, members of the Council, it
is the people of the Republic of Vietnam
who are the major victims of armed aggres-
sion.
They suffer from terror
It is they who are fighting for their
independence against violence directed from
outside their borders. It is they who suffer
day and night from the terror of the so-
called Vietcong.
The prime targets of the Vietcong for kid-
naping, for torture and for murder have
been local officials, schoolteachers, medical
workers, priests, agricultural specialists, and
any others whose position, profession, or
other talent qualified them for service to
the people of Vietnam. plus of course, the
relatives and children of citizens loyal to
their Government.
The chosen military objectives of the Viet-
cong for gunfire, or arson or pillage, have
been hospitals, schoolhouses, agricultural
stations, and various improvement projects
by which the Government of Vietnam for
many years has been raising the living stand-
ards of the people.
The Government and the people of Viet-
nam have been struggling for survival?
struggling for years?in a war which has
been as wicked, as wanton and as dirty as
any waged against an innocent and peaceful
people in the whole cruel history of warfare.
It seems to me that there is something
both grotesque and ironic in the fact that
the victims of this incessant terror are the
accused before this Council and are defend-
ing themselves in daylight, while terrorists
perform their dark and dirty work by night
throughout their land.
I cannot ignore the fact that at the meet-
ing of this Council 2 days ago Ambassador
Pedorenko. the distinguished representative
of the Soviet Union, digressed at great length
from the subject before the Council to ac-
cuse the U.S. Government of organizing di-
rect military action against the people of the
Indochinese peninsula.
FOr years?too many years?we have heard
these bold and unsupported accusations in
the halls of the United Nations.
Malicious tales decried
I had hoped that such malicious fairytales
would be heard no more. But since another
fanciful accusation against my country has
been made by the Soviet representative, /
am sure that the members of the Council
will permit me to set him straight on my
Government's policy with respect to south-
east Asia.
First, the United States has no?and I re-
peat, no?national military objective any-
where in southeast Asia.
U.S. policy for southeast Asia Is very sim-
ple: It is the restoration of peace so that the
peoples of that area can go about their own
Independent business in whatever associa-
tions they may freely choose for themselves
without interference from the outside.
I trust my words have been clear enough
on this point.
Second, the U.S. Government Is currently
Involved in the affairs of the Republic of
Vietnam for one reason and one reason only?
because the Republic of Vietnam requested
the help of the United States and of other
governments to defend itself against armed
attack fomented, equipped, and directed from
the outside.
Earlier U.S. role recalled
This is not the first time that the U.S.
Government has come to the aid of peoples
prepared to fight for their freedom and their
Independence against armed aggression
sponsored from outside their borders. Nor
will it be the last time, unless aggressors
learn once and for all that armed aggression
does not pay. that It no longer works, that
it can no longer be tolerated in the nuclear
age.
The record of the past two decades makes
It clear that a nation with the will for self-
preservation can outlast and defeat overt or
clandestine aggression even when that in-
ternal aggression is heavily supported from
the outside and even after significant early
successes by the aggressors.
I will remind the members of the Council
that in 1947 after the aggressors had gained
control of most of the country many people
felt that the cause of independent Greece
was hopelessly lost. But as long as the peo-
ple of Greece were prepared to fight for the
life of their own country, the United States
was not prepared to stand by while Greece
WOE overrun.
This principle, Mr. Chairman, does not
change with the geographical setting. Ag-
gression is aggression. Organized violence
Is organised violence. Only the scale and the
scenery change. The point is the same in
Vietnam today as it was in Greece in J947
and in Korea in 1950.
The Indochinese Communist Party, the
parent of the present Communist Party in
North Vietnam. made it abundantly clear
as early as 1951 that the aim of the Viet-
namese Communist leadership is to take con-
trol of all of Indochina.
This goal has not changed. It is still clearly
the objective of the Vietnamese Communist
leadership in Hanoi. Hanoi seeks to R0001/1-
plish this purpose in South Vietnam through
subversive guerrilla warfare directed, con-
trolled and supplied by North Vietnam.
The Communist leadership in Hanoi has
sought to pretend that the insurgency in
South Vietnam is a civil war. But Hanoi's
hand shows very clearly. Public statements
by the Communist Party in North Vietnam
and its leaders have repeatedly demonstrated
Hanoi's direction of the struggle in South
Vietnam.
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- -
;St Sepretcfry quoted
Of
the peaty, "Stated on September 5-, 1969, and
/ At present our _party is facing a
_ipogiOilt..0i10-1:taSk=%,sfriir:a to complete the
-.teVoltittoritlinififeare tfie-hanirtify.w :lie also
id this ? "tire'UEirth-16--the-oi5iiiniiin, revolu-
tionary base of the vihOle country.Three
fiithitlilster the Party Congress
j?igaiiet:'-iii-tejiteriinei "Intl,- the so-called
,National tront for the /Aeration. of South
Vietnam was Re, uppuiuuant
lIned at Mat'
International C?htio1 CoinmisslOh rn
Vietnam,' esttblIsied by--the-deireia aCeiiias
Of 1:04, Stated-in a apeelal report- which it
issued-,in-'iina"-:0:0'g,. that there is sufficient
evidence ?ow that lorh Vietnam has
- Vioittesl Vaiihnie" article* :Of the : _OeheVa
borda,bY-MIntManalon of armed personnel,
aria; thitis,ind 'Other- tuplieC from
North ViettarriTintpOouthrefnarn-Witntlie
object of auppcirting, &genii-Mg, nct c?y-
ingout hdatilelteffVitregagairiat the Govern-
nig andlrmed-ferces of South Vietnam. , , ?
up plies maim from north- -
InfiltrRt:ionbf nUtacypei?Sorinel and sup-
plies from forth Vietnam to SouthVietnam
- has, been parriSit ?-4,' stet a:dil--hiVer the past
'several years. The fetal number of Military
- cadre sett i,nto: pau_th Vietnam via infiltra-
tiOn routes runs into the thOusands. Such
ittlitiitiOn,ce'W-elt-dnenrha,hied eri,:the basis
of 'n_intei.'0;4-ctk66tedei-aiid-"_PVISOP-rs Wien
by the'erined YOrhes-nf Viet-nett'.
? introthihtilon. of COittaurifst weapons into
Aentla Vietninibta'alsh(grOVin_iteadiry. An
increasing amount of weapons and'Arrininiii-
*don captured from the Vieteorig has been
? proven - to-be " or Chinese 'Communist Mann-
, fsettirer or: origin.
Ppr exaniple: In December :1008, a, -large
C.ctPliP DJ Vietcong equipment captured in one
of t3e_Nle4:brig Delta provinces in South Viet-
Sri inel,usleelMeoilleks_v4c,yROs,o latinch-
-erC. Carbines, and ,errittni#,Ibn of Chinese
-
? 7.4e Pnited- 8tatee caniipt"feiia:T,,i, While
tneest'Asia' is overrun by armed
aggres-
- Sere._ i?,..04g, as the peopfes of that area are
? determined,tnpreserve their own inderiend-
?-? eneh alidsk fox.our ?help_ in,pseservinz, it we
? Will .eistexi4, Of _course, Is the mean-.
ing of PreSidea req:4'64'a few days
m for additional hinds for tiore'ehiinonlic
as Well as Military assistance for,IVietraam.
_on-tin:ued ,i4pOrt itady;Sd
4/14 It 9tY6fie has the illusion 'ldr
jithat ini--GOVernirient Will abandon die-
people of Vietnam, or that Wealialf Weary Of
the 5w-40# of SUPPert-that we are tendering
the,sepeope, it will beonly :0-e-tb-igrinianee
of the ..,,s4,-ength and tb-el, eoriVietinn Torr the
.4neribari people.
, 4 Arklw.11* 'fiopigot *1,0, has' beet.
the Victi.M. of 'SimoSt inhe ylplpn.qe for
more than, kste64.__.ii.4
this faht,- it has'been ingeated that ',We
e
shOtild gie up helping the peopt& Of Viet-
tarn to dbfeM;Ltheni:,selyesA94 a
m04 -inv.
Political solution. - ? 7
Ant' a politicaT solution is lust what we
have ft-Treacly had and it is in defense?in
iropphert;-:-Ztthit political ablution that-Viet-
,
? #41,Vialttp.i4 nag. laeyer hesoc gninst po
iltical, solutigits.,; we have faithfully
stcppotedthepd1iticai solutions that 'ere
aio#661_6!_ 461.1.74,9-:q104 in 1954 an_agaip in
' '?=7:
,r4e, thrat to ,peace in the area stemsfrom
-
The4p1 fat likewise.
Th, _get,eys, accor.cisut, 4.44, And...062 were
precisely political agreements to stop the
_fighting, to restore the peace, to secure the
independence of Vietnam and Laos and Cam-
,
2005/02/10 :.CIA:?RD006B00.40.3R00)160140,015-7
'SSIONAIAtC
-
bodia; to 'guarantee the 'integrity of their
frontlers and to permit these much-abused
people to go about their own business in
their own way.
United States not a signatory
The United States, though not a signatory
to the 1954 accord has sought to honor these
agreements in the hope that they would
permit these people to live in peace and in-
dependence from outside interference from
any quarter and for all time.
To this day, there is only one major trou-
ble with the political agreements reached at
Geneva with respect to Vietnam. Cambodia
and Laos in 1954 and again with respect to
Laos in 1962. It is this:
The ink was hardly dry on the Geneva ac-
cord in 1954 before North Vietnam began to
violate them systematically, with comradely
assistance from the regime in Peiping.
Nearly a million people, as you will recall,
living in North Vietnam in 1954 exercised the
rights given to them under the Geneva
agreement to move south to the Republic of
Vietnam. _
Even while this was going on, units of
the Vietminh were hiding their arms and
settling down within the frontiers of the
republic to form the nucleus of today's so-
called Vietcong to await the signal from out-
side in order to rise and strike.
In the meanwhile, they have been trained
and supplied in considerable measure from
North Vietnam in violation of the Geneva
agreement?the political settlement.
They have been reinforced by guerrilla
forces moved in to the Republic of Vietnam
through Laos in violation of the Geneva
agreement?the political settlement.
This is the reason?and the only reason?
'Why there is "fighting in Vietnam today.
There is fighting in Vietnam today only be-
cause the political settlement for Vietnam
reached at Geneva in 1954 has been delib-
erately and flagrantly and systematically
violated.
AR I say, Mr. President, this is the reason
why my Government and, to a lesser ex-tent,
other governments, have come to the aid of
the Government of the Republic of Vietnam
as it fights for its life against armed aggres-
sion, directed from outside its frontiers in
contemptuous violation of bindipg agree-
ments.
If the Government of the Republic of
Vietnam is fighting today, it is fighting to
defend the Geneva agreement, which has
' proved undefendable by any other means.
If arms are being used in Vietnam today, it is
only because a political solution has been
violated cynically for years.
,The same disregard for the political settle-
- ment reached at Geneva has been demon-
strated by the same parties in Laos. Viola-
tion has been followed by a period of quiet
? and then another violation follows. Limited
aggression has been followed by a period of
calm and then another limited aggression.
Throughout the period since July 1962,
- when the Lao settlement was concluded,
? the Prime Minister of Laos, Prince Souvanna
Phouma, has with great patience and forti-
tude sought to maintain the neutrality and
independence of his country. He has made
every effort to bring about Pathet Lao co-
operation in the Government of national
union.
Now, in the past few days, we have seen
a massive, deliberate armed attack against
the forces of the coalition Government of
Prime Minister Souva,nna. Phouma,
The attack was mounted by a member of
inkt coalition Government with the military
assistance of one of the signatories a the
Geneva accord. These violations are obvi-
ously aimed at increasing the amount of Lao
-
Outright attempt
The military offensive of recent days must
be seen as an outright attempt to destroy
by violence what the whole structure of the
Geneva accord was intended to preserve.
-Hanoi has persistently refused to withdraw
the Vietnamese Communist farces from Laos
despite repeated demands by the Lao Prime
Minister.
Hanoi has also consistently continued the
use of Laos as a corridor for infiltration of
men and supplies from North Vietnam into
South Vietnam.
It is quite clear that the Communists re-
gard the Geneva accords of 1962 as an in-
strument which in no way restrains the Com-
munists from pursuing their objectives of
taking over Laos as well as South Vietnam.
The recent attempt to overthrow the con-
stitutional Government headed by Prime
Minister Souvanna Phourna was in large part
attributable to the failure of the machinery
set up by the Geneva accords to function
in response to urgent requests by the Gov-
ernment of Laos.
'This machinery has been persistently sab-
otaged by the ?Communist member of the
International Control Commission, who has
succeeded by misuse of the so-called veto
power in paralyzing the machinery designed
to protect the peace in that area and thereby
undermining support for the Souvanna gov-
ernment.
Today, however, that government which
was created under the Geneva agreements,
remains in full exercise of its authority as
the legitimate government of a neutralized
Laos.
The other Geneva signatories must live
up to their solemn commitments and sup-
port Prime Minister Souvanna in his efforts
to preserve the independence and the neu-
trality which the world thought had been
won at Geneva.
These solemn obligations, we submit, must
Mit be betrayed.
Mr. President; my Government takes a
very grave view of -these events. Those who
are responsible, have set foot on an exceed-
ingly dangerous _path.
As we look at _world affairs in recent years,
we have reason _to_hope that this lesson has
at last been learned by all but those fanatics
who cling to the doctrine that they could
further _their ambitions by armed force.
. Chairman Khrushchev said it well, and
clearly in his New Year's Day message to
other heads of government around the world.
In that letter he asked for?and I quote?.
"recognition of the fact that territories of
states must not even temporarily be the
target of any- kind of invasion, attack, mili-
tary occupation or other coercive measures
directly or indirectly undertaken by other
states for any political, economic, strategic
boundary or other considerations whatso-
ever."
re is not a member of this Council, Mr.
President, or a member of this organization
which does not share a common interest in
a final and total renunciation, except in self-
defense, of the use of force as a means of
pursuing national aims.
The doctrine of militant violence has been
rendered null and void by the technology of
modern weapons and the vulnerability of a
world in which the peace cannot be ruptured
anywhere without endangering the peace
everywhere.
Way to restore order
Finally, Mr. President, with respect to
southeast Asia in general, let me say this:
There is a very easy way to restore order in
aoutheast Asia. There is a very simple, safe
way to bring about the end of U.S. military
territory under Communist control. ?aid to the Republic of Vietnam.
- ? 44, "
, -
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11364
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
Let all foreign troops withdraw from Laos.
Let all states in that area make and abide
by the simple decision to leave their neigh-
bors alone. Stop the secret subversion of
other people's independence. Stop the
clandestine and illegal transit of national
frontiers. Stop the export of revolution and
the doctrine of violence. Stop the violations
of political agreements reached at Geneva
for the future of southeast Asia.
The people of Laos want to be left alone.
The people of Vietnam want to be left alone.
The people of Cambodia want to be left alone.
When their neighbors decide to leave them
alone, as they must, there will be no lighting
in southeast Asia and no need for American
advisers to leave their homes to help these
people resist aggression.
Any time that that decision can be put
In enforcible term-, my Government will be
only too happy to put down the burden
that we have been sharing with those deter-
mined to preserve their independence. Until
such assurances are forthcoming, we shall
stand for the independence of free peoples
in southeast Asia as we have elsewhere.
And now, Mr.' President, if we can return
to the more limited issue b!fore this Council
today?the security of the frontier between
Cambodia and the Republic of Vietnam.
Cambodian stand upheld
My Government?if there is any misun-
derstanding about it, let me put it straight?
is in complete sympathy with the concern of
the Government of Cambodia for the sanctity
of its borders and the security of its people.
Indeed, we have been guided for nearly a
decade in this respect by the words of the
final declaration of the Geneva Conference of
July 21, 1954, which says:
"In their relations with Cambodia, with
Laos and Vietnam, each member of the Ge-
neva Conference undertakes to respect the
sovereignty, the independence, the unity and
the territorial integrity of the above-men-
tioned states and to refrain from any inter-
ference in their internal affairs."
With respect to the allegations now made
against my country, I shall do no more than
reiterate what Ambassador Yost, the U.S.
delegate, said to this Council on Tuesday
morning: The United Estates has expressed
regret officially for the trees results of the
border incidents in which an American ad-
viser was present. Our careful investiga-
tions have failed to produce evidence that
any Americans were present in the crossing
of the Cambodian frontier on May 7 and
May 8 and there is, of course, no question
whatever of either aggression or aggressive
Intent against Cambodia on the part of my
country.
Let me emphasize that my Government
has the greatest regard for Cambodia and its
people and its chief of state?Prince Siha-
nouk, whom I have the privilege of know-
ing. We believe he has done a great deal
for his people and for the independence of
his country. We have demonstrated our
regard for his effort on behalf of his people
in very practical ways over the past decade.
We have no doubt that he wants to assure
conditions in which his people can live in
peace and security.
My Government associates itself explicitly
with this aim. If the people of Cambodia
wish to live in peace and security and in-
dependence and free from alinement if they
so choose, then we want for them precisely
what they want for themselves.
We have no quarrel whatsoever with the
desire of Cambodia to go its own way in
peace and security.
Cambodia not left alone
The difficulty, Mr. President, has been that
Cambodia has not been in a position to
carry out with its own unaided strength its
own desire to live in peace and tranquillity.
Others in the area have not been prepared
to leave the people of Cambodia free to pur-
sue their own ends independently and
peacefully.
The recent difficulties along the frontier
which we have been discussing here in the
Council are qnly superficially and acciden-
tally related to the Republic of Vietnam.
They are deeply and directly related to the
fact that the leaders and armed forces of
North Vietnam. supported by Communist
China, have abused the right of Cambodia
to live in peace by using Cambodian terri-
tory as a passageway, a source of supply,
and a sanctuary from counterattack by the
forces of South Vietnam, which is also trying
to maintain its right to live in peace and
go its way.
Obviously Cambodia cannot be secure.
Here territorial integrity cannot be assured.
Here independence cannot be certain as long
as outsiders direct massive violence within
the frontiers of her neighboring states.
This is the real reason for troubles on the
Cambodian border and this is the real reason
that we are here today.
Now it is suggested that the way to
restore security on the Cambodian-Viet-
namese border is to reconvene the Geneva
Conference which 10 years ago reached the
solemn agreement which I have read to you.
While I hesitate and dislike to differ with
my distinguished friend from Cambodia. I
submit, Mr. President, that we can surely
do better than that?that there is no need
for another such conference. A Geneva Con-
ference on Cambodia could not be expected
to produce an agreement any more effective
than the agreements we already have.
Complaint discussed
This Council is seized with a specific issue.
The Cambodians have brought a specific
complaint to this table. Let us then deal
with it.
There is no need to look elsewhere. We
can make here and now a constructive deci-
sion to help meet the problem that has been
laid before us by the Government of Cam-
bodia to help keep order on her frontier with
Vietnam and thus to help eliminate at least
one of the sources of tension and violence
Which afflict the area as a whole.
Let me say, Mr. President. that my Govern-
ment endorsee the statement made by the
distinguished representative of Cambodia to
the Council on Tuesday when he pointed out
that states which are not members of the
United Nations are not thereby relieved of
responsibility for conducting their affairs in
line with the principles of the charter of this
organization.
We could not agree more fully that the
regimes of Peiping and Hanoi, which are not
members of this organization, are employing
or supporting the use of force against their
neighbor.
This is why the borders of Cambodia have
seen violence. And this is why we are here
today and that is why the United States has
a duty to do what It can to maintain order?
the United Nations. I beg your pardon?has
the duty to do what it can to maintain order
along the frontier between Cambodia and
Vietnam to help uphold the principles of
the charter in southeast Asia.
As for the exact action which this Council
might take. Mr. President. my Government
is prepared to consider several possibilities.
We are prepared to discuss any practical
and constructive steps to meet the problem
before us. One cannot blame the Vietnamese
for concluding that the International Con-
trol Commission cannot do an effective job
of maintaining frontier security.
Unanimous vote required
The composition?the troika composition?
of the International Control Commission
which under the Geneva agreements on Viet-
nam and Cambodia requires that decisions
dealing with violations which might lead to
May 22
a resumption of hostilities can be taken only
by unanimous agreement has contributed to
the frustration of the ICC.
The fact that the situation in South Viet-
nam has reached the crisis stage is itself
dramatic testimony of the frustrations to
which the International Control Commission
has been reduced.
With the exception of the special report
on June 2, 1262, to which I referred, con-
demning Communist violation of the Geneva
accords, the Commission has taken no action
with respect to the Communist campaign
of aggression and guerrilla warfare against
South Vietnam.
The representative of Cambodia has sug-
gested that a commission of inquiry in-
vestigate whether the Vietcong has used
Cambodian territory.
We have no fundamental objection to a
committee of inquiry. But we do not believe
It addresses itself to the basic problem that
exists along the Vietnam-Cambodian border.
More is needed in order to assure that prob-
lems do not continue to arise.
Several practical steps for restoring stabil-
ity to the frontier have been suggested, and
I shall make brief and preliminary general
remarks about them.
I wish to reiterate what Ambassador Yost
said the other day?that we have never re-
jected any proposal for inspection of Cam-
bodian territory.
Now one suggestion is that the Council
request the two parties directly concerned
to establish a substantial military force on a
bilateral basis to observe and patrol the
frontier and to report to the Secretary Gen-
eral.
U.N. observers suggested
Another suggestion Is that such a bilateral
force be augmented by the addition of Unit-
ed Nations observers and possibly be placed
under United Nations command in order
to provide an impartial third-party element
representative of the world community.
We also could see much merit in this idea.
Now, if I am correctly informed, a third sug-
gestion is to make it an all-United Nations
force. This might also be effective. It would
involve somewhat larger United Nations ex-
penditures than the other alternatives, but
if this method should prove desirable to
the members of the Council the United States
will be prepared to contribute.
We would suggest, Mr. President, that
whether one of these or some other practical
solution is agreed, that it would be useful
to ask the Secretary General of the United
Nations to offer assistance to Cambodia and
to the Republic of Vietnam in clearly mark-
ing the frontiers between the two countries.
One of the difficulties is that there are
places where one does not know whether he
stands on one side of the frontier or the
other. Certainly it would help to reduce
the poesibility of further incidents if this un-
certainty could be removed.
And now in conclusion, Mr. President, with
my apologies for detaining the members so
long, let me repeat that I am prepared to
discuss the policy and the performance of
my Government throughout southeast Asia,
but that the issue before us is the security of
Cambodia and the Cambodian-Vietnam
border.
I have expressed my Government's views
on that subject. I hope other members of
the Council also will express their views on
that subject, and that the Council, which le
the primary world agency for peace and se-
curity, can quickly take effective steps tc
remedy a situation which could threater
peace and security.
Thank you, Mr. President,
REPLY BY MR. rEDORENHO
Prom that noisy and rather sensationa
show of American advertising technique!
which was used today in the statement mad.
by our U.S. colleague, one might hay.
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-1964 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? ATE 11365
? Alionght ths...t he Was Making poine
really ha-
portanf substantive stateinent.
>Ev?o,tt,opthnittiO observer would
heeded the votee of reasoI, finally was de-
-41-thdratri
aS g ,
? partieu-
:troops Its
?tatcenitiguous to
Camboctia ?
Might iiipeCte'
? expected thatthe
1111-ittel4el.?6:States-W-Onlearet4t11#6.'deelaied Ls
? lritentiOn to filial
- t 4
.71eements Of
054 which, as yeu4FL,Tab been
Stub-
bornly violated by it a d_whOSe` viofatlon, in
? the case of Oaniliodia;, has 1..0.:0gi*nipe41.1,g
.151 _
Of course ? ft AS _necessary to bear in mind
fact that, the , rOresentatii4 of the
_n1tg? $tatellas becu _Oyer, .ent, as it were,
, by 'events when he was traveling overgeas.
'TIP Is'Oh_viously still under the impression of
his reeent Rome meetings and his negotia-
tions and his talks. 7#4 th?T Woe
where, as we ?,1p.0,76, it is normal to _make
Rpeeahea regularly Under the old fa-tiered.
.flag of ..anticommunism.
,Bilt let
that bets ?no ;longer at secret meetings with
his military allies; that he is now at a meet-
ing of the SecuritY Council and that he
should not herejneak from the platform of
protagonistsr theprotagonistsof militarism, accusing oth-
ers ,or .41.1 ginspoSaible. _
-the, re-presentative of the United States
was in Acf;.;i31414 a definitrole':V):44y;
jae was speaking from, PIO cI.ck as the an.7.
And would rnlld infi_a_SaadOr _
StevensOn that on the agenda of the Security
'OQu1cil for today we have, the question of the
'azgresSien carried out by the United States
act spRth,y400,4pApinq,Carnbodia,_ and
that this is *bat we sholjlarlie7talking about
?; tr.S. stan4 elt4lenged
.
??. ?_
???t ut ineaawhile the representative of the
. United States has attempted to represent
matters fu such a way as to seem to be_speak-
- lug in defense of the peoples Of southeast
Asia, who, according to have become? .ctjs . Of .,.06jAroinit.d agsTessiOn, and
he epairnieS to inal,re ,statements _that c,or,
? resPOnd- not at all to the actual state of
_ _ ,
affairs,? ?
is indeed strange What Can sometimes
be done, with logic. ? From Mr. Stevenson's
very -fignrative speech, it would seem that
- SOIcite0
? to Sonth:Vietnaria.,for ,tho,pmpose of waging
R Very:erne-1 and -dirty Way, to put to the sword
arid 4.Q..f49,4ainc_th?dpeople of Vietnam who
etre struggling for the liberation a,nd
mdc-
pendenee country, the United States,
ad,COrding to their way of thinking, is in some
wa:Ly Contributing to an, international detente
by these actions. .
jt turns out thatby organizing aggression
st.gainit Cali:dab-Oa, the Anierican military are
, _ . _
In some_ _way making a contribution to the
Cause b!peace.
fie:,okarfles turnab.'oui
This attempt to accuse Others In a case of
?tile TiO:t calling the kettle_biacjr, and in their
.?Setifeh:fcir a scapegoat they have been led to
wage a War thousands of milek.from_their
'own shores obilonsly financed out of their
-
? 'The :representatives_ of the _United States
try to present the glair Jig?If, American
troops, giins; and -jmoney were being used
-simply in order to guarantee for the popula-
tion of South ,Vjetgain therig_ht-to live un-
?
der the social system, thex prefer, _
is- is-affirmation s
which,
?
fOoLvq. M ,APPS-9,YoZIPPILLibee, it corn-
pletelY, distorts the _real stat.P.,-P-Latfairs. jn
outhVielpit #11.4.00.5tAto ha in
s
- stalled, and is mairitainiag in power by all
the means at its disposal, including military
means, a puppet regime- which is contrary American lads to die in South Vietnam,
to the wishes of the people. where war has not been declared.
The extent to which that regime has been "Finally, I am much concerned about the
fOisted on South Vietnam and is not enjoy- fact that, as I see it, we are subverting and
ing any popularity in the country may be undermining the United Nations. I am very
seen In the fact that over the last much afraid that we are weakening the
United Nations."
These opinions fill us with considerable
concern and anxiety. We share the concern
and alarm expressed by Senator MORSE. And
are we not justified in expecting from a
member state of the United Nations?a per-
manent member of the Security Council?
some objectivity in assessing the situation
which has become the subject of discussion
in the Security Council?
Are we not entitled to expect an acknowl-
edgment of the very grave crimes which
have been committed against an independ-
ent state, Cambodia, a member state of the
United Nations?
Who was set up because of a foreign occupa- I feel that it is hardly necessary to have
tion., whereafter, for the same reason and an interpretation of my remarks. Do you
at the behest of the same people, one usurper not think, Mr. President, that it would be
was replaced hy another henchmen? wen, to refrain from any interpretation in
6 months the United States has been obliged
to replace three governments there.
Question of rules raised
When, at the beginning of the discussion
Of this item, the Soviet delegation spoke in
opposition to the participation of those who
pretend to represent South Vietnam, we
had in mind particularly the mandate of
those rulers.
What mandate do the South Vietnam
riders have? Who gave it to them? From
whom did they receive the right to lord it
in that region? From the dead or from the
living? From Ngo Dinh Diem, the puppet
But, as they say, a monkey with a crown view of the exteme clarity of my position?
on its head still remains a monkey. The
puppets are being changed and are replacing [From the New York Times, May 22, 1964]
each other?Ngo Dinh Diem, Syngman Rhee
UNITED STATES PUTS A JET WATCH OVER LAOS?
and their like. This is part of the policy.
AIR AID REQUESTED--PLANES SCOUTING REDS
The Eastern peoples are famous for their
BECAUSE TRUCE UNIT CANNOT FUNCTION
wisdom, as expressed in the saying that a
snake does not become straight if it is put (By Hedrick Smith)
through a bamboo tube. WASHINGTON, May 21.?The Government
In order to maintain its puppets in power disclosed today that unarmed U.S. jetplanes
and to preserve its beachhead for aggression piloted by Americans had been flying recon..
against the peace-loving peoples in south- natssance missions over the Plaine des Jarres,
east Asia, the United States is waging an in central Laos, to gather information on
undeclared war against the people of South Communist forces. -
Vietnam. A State Department spokesman said the
missions had been undertaken at the request
of the Government of Laos because of "the
current inability of the International Con-
trol Commission to obtain adequate informa-
tion" on recent attacks on neutralist and
rightwing forces in Laos.
The commission, made up of representa-
tives of India, Canada, and Poland, is as-
signed to supervise the numerous truces in
the fighting between pro-Communist and
anti-Communist forces in Laos.
Coupled with the disclosure of the recon-
naissance flights was a report by qualified
sources that the United States had provided
the bombs being used by the Laotian Air
Force for raids against the pro-Communists'
positions in the embattled Plaine des Jarres.
These sources indihted that the bombs
were supplied some time ago at the request
of the Laotian Government under the July
1962, Geneva agreements between East and
West. Under these accords Laos was to be
unified and neutralized, with a government
to consist of neutralist, rightist, and pro-
Communist factions. The current raids were
the first in which the bombs were used.
FIRST OFFICIAL ADMISSION
The announcement of the reconnaissance
flights was the first official acknowledgment
ha nothing left except in Thailand and since the signing of the Geneva accords that
s
There is a tremendous armed force there
which is carrying out a punitive war against
.the South Vietnamese population. Who, at
this present time, would be bold enough
to say that those who have taken over from
the Foreign Legion, as it were, have now
become advisers, friends of the people, and
soon?
I shall simply confine myself to a reference
to the appeal of a very well-known compa-
triot of Mr. Stevenson, Senator WAYNE
MORSE, I refer to a statement which he
made in the Senate on May '18 of this year
on the question of the McNamara war in
.South Vietnam. This appears in the CON-
GRESSIONAL RECORD, pages 10853-10859. This
is what Senator MORSE said:
"We support the totalitarian, military,
tyrannical puppet government in South
Vietnam. If anybody believes that in South
Vietnam people are free, they can hardly be
more mistaken.
"We have already been caught red handed
when we carried out acts of aggression
against Cambodia and Prince (Norodom)
Sihanouk threw us out of there. This has
put an end to the complex theory which was
held by John Foster Dulles, Cambodia and
Burma have turned away from us and, as we
all know, the theory of John Foster Dulles
South Vietnam." the United States was taking a military role
In Laos.
Morse letter quoted
In conclusion, I cannot fail to refer to the
letter of Senator MORSE to Mr. Stevenson on
May 14 of this year. I hope that the mem-
bers of the Council are familiar with this
letter but, to refresh their memories, I
should like to give a brief quotation from it:
"As you know, I consider that the uni-
lateral military action which the United
States is carrying out in South Vietnam is
not in accordance with international law and
The disclosure came in the wake of reports
from Tokyo quoting the Peiping radio to the
effect that pro-Communist Pathet Lao troops
had fired on American planes over Laos. Of-
ficials here could not confirm that any planes
had been fired upon.
The State Department's acknowledgement
of the flights was viewed by observers here
as having as much importance as the flights
themselves or even more.
It was interpreted as part of a carefully
Is. by, no _means justified under it, as well developed plan by the Johnson administra-
ai 'being irreconcilable with our obligations tion to demonstrate that it was prepared to
under the Charter of the United Nations, go beyond traditio:nal diplomatic gestures of
"I realize the delicate position you are in. Showing its concern over military attacks
? Nevertheless, I consider that the American against the neutralist forces in Laos.
people have a right to .know whether you The announcement was also viewed as a
are in accord with the policy of sending parallel move to a speech in the United Na-
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11366 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ?SENATE
tions Security Council today by Adlai E.
Stevenson, the U.S. delegate, In which he
denounced aggression in Laos and South
Vietnam.
ORIGIN NOT DISCLOSED
Officials did not disclose where the recon-
naissance flights originated but they left the
impression that the planes flew from and
landed outside Laos, presumably neighbor-
ing Thailand. The type of planes being used
was also not disclosed.
Officials turned aside suggestions that the
reconnaissance flights might be a violation
of the 1962 Geneva accords on Laos by no-
ting that the accords make no mention of
reconnaissance flights.
Washington also argued that continued
violations of the accords by the Pathet Lao
and North Vietnamese forces and their re-
fusal to permit the International Control
Commission to inspect their areas made the
flights necessary to preserve the accords.
Officials repeatedly emphasized that the
United States considered that the 1082 agree-
ments, which are the basis for Premier Sou-
venue Phouma's Government, were still in
force and that the reconnaissance flights
Would certainly not pause them to be
scrapped.
The agreements, signed by the United
States and 13 other powers, including North
Vietnam and Communist China, forbid "the
introduction of foreign regular and irregular
troops, foreign paramilitary formations and
foreign military personnel into Laos."
Officials here maintained that since the
flights presumably started and ended out-
side Laotian territory and airspace, the air-
craft and personnel were not being "intro-
duced" into Laos.
Another provision of the agreements per-
mits the introduction of "quantities of con-
ventional armaments as the Royal Govern-
ment of Laos may consider necessary for the
national defense of Laos."
The officials indicated that Premier Sou-
vanna Phouma, who has accused the Pathet
Lao and North Vietnamese forces of violating
the accords during the current fighting, had
orally requested U.S. support under this pro-
vision.
The flights began a few days ago and are
continuing, the officials said. They were au-
thorized by high administration officials with
President Johnson's approval.
To Ass= IN EVERT WAY
In a prepared sta%ement on the recon-
naissance flights, the State Department said:
? "We are working with the Royal Lao Gov-
ernment in response to its request to assist
in every way possible in supplementing its
information on the intention and disposi-
tions of attacking forces.
"For this purpose, certain U.S. recon-
naissance flights have been authorized
In view of the current inability of the Inter-
national Control Commission to obtain ade-
quate information. Information obtained
will be turned over as rapidly as possible to
the ICC."
Officials said the planes were surveying
troops, supply depots, and positions for pho-
tographs that could conceivably be used to
document forther charges of aggression
against the North Vietnamese and the Pathet
Lao forces before the United Nations. It was
Indicated that copies of the photographs
would be flown back to Washington as well
as being turned over to truce commission
representatives in Vientiane.
Officials maintained that the flights were
the first American jet reconnaissance mis-
sions over the Plaine des Janes in central
Laos in the last 2 years.
There have been reports that the United
States was using high-flying 17-2 jets on
reconnaissance missions over southeast Asia.
There has also been speculation that recon-
naissance planes 'based in Thailand or South
Vietnam have periodically flown photograph-
ing missions over the Ho Chi Minh Trail in
eastern Laos to watch for North Vietnamese
troop movements toward South Vietnam
On the diplomatic side of the Laos issue,
qualified sources said Secretary of State Dean
Rusk had strenuously objected to the French
Ambassador, Herv6 Aiphand. over a French
proposal yesterday for a new international
conference on Laos.
Officials here were both shocked and irri-
tated that Paris had put forth the proposal
without having consulted its allies.
In response, the United States and Britain
have decided to turn aside the French sug-
gestion by throwing their support to a sepa-
rate proposal for consultations in Vientiane
among the 14 nations that signed the 1982
agreements
Robert S. McCloskey. State Department
spokesman, reiterated that the United States
was "agreeable to consultations in Vientiane,
as suggested by the Prime Minister." He
refrained from commenting airectly on the
French proposal.
Washington is fearful that any formal
international conference would provide Com-
munist China and North Vietnam with a
forum for propaganda demands calling for
neutralization of all the Indochinese Penin-
sula.
Officials here also believe that it would be
a mistake to have Prince Souvanna Phouma
leave Laos at a time when his forces are
beleaguered and the Communists have been
trying to undermine his position.
Washington also contends that to hold an
international conference now would be to
"reward the aggressor," as one official put it,
referring to the military attacks on neutral-
ists and rightwing forces.
Nonetheless the French proposal drew sup-
port from Senator Mrsts Mawarnme, the ma-
jority leader, who has often been at odds with
the administration on southeast Asia policy.
[From the New York Times, May 22, 19041
Barniat GOAL: CONSULTATIONS
(By Sydney Gruson)
LONDON, May al.?Britain concentrated her
diplomatic efforts today on trying to bring
about "consultations" on Laos among the
countries that worked out a solution for the
Asian kingdom's political problem; in Ge-
neva in 1962.
Such consultations, which were requested
Tuesday by Prince Souvanna Phouma, the
neutralist Premier of Laos, would have the
effect of shelving France's proposal last night
for a more formal 14-nation conference.
Prince Souvanna Phouma suggested that
representatives of the 14 countries "consult"
in Vientiane, the Laotian administrative cap-
ital, where all except Burma have diplomatic
missions.
The 14 are Britain, the Soviet Union, the
United States, Prance, Communist China, In-
dia, Canada, Poland, Burma, Thailand, Cam-
bodia, North Vietnam, South Vietnam, and
Laos.
The French proposal, made to Britain and
the Soviet Union as cochairmen of the 1982
conference, was brief. It said a new session
was necessary to solve the problems of Laos,
which have been complicated by the pro-
Communist Pathet Lao forces recent Military
victories and the merger of the kingdom's
rightwing and neutralist factions.
The United States had asked France and
Britain, among other countries with diplo-
matic representation in Peiping, to seek Com-
munist China's help to end the lighting in
Laos. Britain acted promptly to do so,
though without results so far, but the
French refused, according to reliable sources
here.
The French stand was reliably reported to
May 22
be that it would be useless to seek China's
assistance.
PROPOSALS CALLED SIMILAR
The British Foreign Office took pains to
explain that it was not "knocking down" the
French proposal in issuing a statement today
expressing support for Prince Souvanna
Phouma's "efforts to promote consultations
in Vientiane."
Asked if the statement meant that Britain
ruled out the idea of convening a formal con-
ference. Michael Hadow, Foreign Office
spokesman, said "No."
"We are considering that and consulting
about it." he added. He said the French pro-
posal and the proposal by the Laotian
Premier were "on very similar lines."
British officials conceded that the situation
in Laos might come to the point where a con-
ference was Inevitable. But it was clear to
observers that Washington and London
would do everything possible to keep any
consultations or conference at the lowest
possible diplomatic level.
British officials indicated that renewed
representations would be made' soon to the
Soviet Union and Communist China. For
the moment, there was little hope that the
Chinese would be amenable immediately
to restoring the situation in Laos.
At best, It Is felt here, a halt might be
called in the Pathet Lao offensive. At worst,
it is feared, the Chinese will encourage the
Pathet Lao forces to sweep to the Mekong
River and provoke a serious military con-
frontation with the United States, which is
committed to assist in the defense of Thai-
land, which borders on the Mekong.
'From the New YorTr?Times, May 22, 1964]
PARIS WIDENING PROPOSAL
(By Drew Middleton)
PARIS, May 21.?President de Gaulle's gov-
ernment declared anew today that the guar-
anteed neutrality it seeks for Laos should be
extended to neighboring nations.
A statement to this effect by Foreign Min-
ister Maurice Couve de Murville after a Cab-
inet meeting apparently widened the latest
French diplomatic initiative to include the
southeast Asian states of North and South
Vietnam and Cambodia. But France. like
the other governments involved, insisted
that the situation in Laos take priority.
Cambodia's ruler, Prince Norodom Siha-
nouk, has already asked for a conference to
guarantee his country's neutrality. The
French have supported his request.
General de Gaulle, who presided over the
Cabinet meeting, believes that North and
South Vietnam should be united in inde-
endence and their neutrality guaranteed.
Because of the urgency of the military sit-
uation in Laos, the French Government Is
concentrating on assembling a conference to
deal with that problem.
Mr. Couve de Murville, in letters to Brit-
ain and the Soviet Union, did not specify the
level or site of the session he proposed.
Qualified French sources said the Govern-
ment did not believe that a conference at the
ambassadorial level in Vientiane, as proposed
by Prince Souvanna Phourna, would be high-
powered enough.
The French are apparently thinking of a
conference attended by deputy foreign min-
isters. Geneva now seems the most likely
site, but the French will not insist on it.
As reported by Information Minister Alain
Peyrefitte, Mr. Couve de Murville told the
Cabinet:
"There is no other solution to the problem
of Laos than neutralization guaranteed by
the (interested) powers. A true and sincere
solution of nutralization must extend to all
of southeast Asia. It Is the sole guarantee
of the peace and independence of the states."
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.1964
,
4I5 kpiil 2, 1964.
nop., 4;x45F5T
U.S.I Se**,
TV ashingtoi,t,_
pp.
PE4R SENATOII CtiOni4iNe' :Vietnamese
rise to numerous cOn-
probleirie have give _
trovexsle lnjd?i country.- I know that,
despite'your inanyalli7SLa t
oilialaiave taken nkeeerinai!
aetive intere_St=lp?.?the...Sd
try and for this "reasoni eiri-Wilting to you
to give o? m PoiritiOf vieW On the prob-
' leins Which face us.
,:444?X wrote to Lsamnr and Sec-
retary Of state Dean husk last February, 25,
ri-eithefi the iyetntralizatiOsanin finfn
sUpPOrted by both' the de , Yalitblirc ;anade
General de Gaulle, nor an:escatolatiton of the
war" Are SOlUtiOria acceptablehe Viet-
11-6e pe6Ple
Thril on truly Viable solution is to help ,
the Vietnamese people attain a position of
political, economic, arid Military
, strength which will make it possible for us
.to carry on and win whet ,has often been
QoYaTe64?4:Yeie7rtigt,_%e'*fattifie72'Abli,inCeans of
SWeeping and-eoPial reforms" Includ-
ing a 'cliange-froin militarkidictatorship, to
represerifetiVe-nationaliet government.
114-The
The policy
of its oftl_1,,,pred_eces I ,
Johnson adininistration,
sound. the commitment
mitinent'Wor, ' ai basically
d Vietnam
until final vicfOry Over the Communists has
beenachipVecl _is. a etanseWOthk of a_g;?-at
nation ad tlk-4,40 f tire,BUt
why has this policy?so good in itself, so just
and so heavily suppOrted?been so com-
pletely frustrated,dMin_g these past ip years?
? The ansWer iasinitily that American aid has
been iniSalrepteq., ]rfie,WrOlig_ leaders and
the wraps srouPS have received and abused
American support while the Vietnamese peo-
ple and their legitimate nationalist leader-
ship havep,e.p.4virtuallyignored,
47414* siipport ter- Diern'aregline, itisti-
fietranslAuPpeSstal fer ?541lOng_ as Diem had
the -support Orthe- Vietnamese people and
the'riatie-riallst:LleaSiershiii, became untenable'
when he and tie faintly began to abuse their
power, thereby 'divorcing themselves from
popular support. After that point, neither
1116ssiYejAmeriPan _aid_ in _money, material,
and Manpower, nor the frequent declarations
of wholehearted _support ,from gertain?Amer-
loan, ocjals eOula save Our Mandarin irpria
catastrophe.
?%.01.014'Sd?11 f1aclear, refutation
of all, policies involving the support of dic-
tatorships Without regard to the will of the,.
people: - In reVoiutionary ArSia, such tactics
are eutAatett; they simply cannot work.
Arnerica's.hastY rush to support the new mili-
? tary strong man Gen. Nguyen Khanh follow-
ing his unpopular coup d'etat and the:sub-
sequent -American campaigns`describing the
general as a man who enjoys the admiration,
respect, and complete support of the United
-gtates indicate, that we,,areAn_for_ another
?4.9.-1.111,4'0t=k4C. 40a4rons t.randof_pragmatisin
whim, prescribes any kind of government so
'long as it is not good government, any kind
Of leaders So_ long as they are unpopular and
dictatorial. ,* * The sameA11,1,?taises_ which
to the catastrophe of ,Dienblenphu and
later to the _bloody fall of Ngo Dinh Diem
are starting all over again
The ,Vietrianiese. 'people, one OF the mostost
,courageous and persevering in Asia, have
knOWn it-ion:Sands_ of years of colonialism
uri'clei the lViongolS, Chinese, and French.
We are currently in the midst of s, guerrilla
.-
twin* Which has gone on almost uninterrupt
edly for two decades. Through all this time
" we have ? sifflered umier,overnments and
by ourselves, but imposed
. force from the 2:Weide._ When ,America
entereci.the *040 of _onretruggies, we hoped?
and , We tll lip0e?that with the friendship
and _support of your great nation?leader
and champion of the free world?we could
= ,
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? spTATE 11,36.7
finally realize our centuries-old aspiration to
be a free and independent people with a re-
sponsible government devoted to the national
interest and serving the popular will. We
',did not, foresee newdictatorsbips, new police-
state methods, and new oppression. We
could not have expected the same errors, the
same insults, and the same disregard for
Vietnam's legitimate interests and leadership
that characterized the French involvement
in Indochina.
For my part, I am convinced that if Amer-
ica is genuinely interested in helping Viet-
nam defend her freedom and independence
against the Communist menace, she must
help us to install a representative civilian
government with the participation of all the
foremost nationalist leaders in the,...verY
shortest time possible. With genuine repre-
sentation embodied in government under the
leaders who have earned real popular support
by their long and dedicated struggle against
communism, dictatorship, and feudalism, we
can assure a renaissance of the national
spirit. A nationalist government can create
the atmosphere of purpose and dedication?
so
so sorely lacking today?that can turn the
tide against the Communist aggressors.
I believe that if Khanhis really the great
military genius he is claimed to be, he should
be named supreme commander of all Vietna-
mese forces and be given a year to "pacify
South Vietnam." Then he could begin his
triumphal march to Hanoi and realize the
unification of_ the Country as he has so often
said he could. There is no point in wasting
the time of this Military wizard in diplomatic
maneuvers with Sihanouk, Chang Kai-shek,
and De Gaulle or in parades and "barnstorm-
ing" tours. If he can win the support of the
army and galvanize its will tolght, then the
route to quick and total victory has been
found.
Too much time, money, and prestige
have been wasted Miring these last years in
supporting the false doctrine of building up
strong men in hopes of winning the war by
strictly military means. Continued, obsti-
nate adherence to this policy can only end at
the bargaining tables of Geneva and a hu-
militating defeat for the free world and all
it stands for.
I would like to draw your attention equally
to the massive utilization of napalm and
white phosphorus against defenseless cities
and villages as reported in the New York
-Herald Tribune, April 2, 1904. Instead of
killing Vietcong combattants, this tactic
takes its greatest toll among innocent civil-
ians including women, children, and the
aged. These barbaric attacks are acts of
reprisal and repression which succeed in
little more than turning the peasant popula-
tion against the United States which supplies
the necessary bombs and aircraft. This is
not the way to win the minds and hearts of
men?rather it is the way to become known
as the new colonialists. Because of tacit
American support for these actions, there is
a growing gulf between the Vietnamese and
-American peoples which has become a seri-
ous threat to the interests and prestige of
your country. I hope that you will do every-
thing in your power to limit these bombard-
ments in favor of attacks on strictly military
objectives which do not slaughter or alienate
the civilian population.
I know perfectly well that Khanh and his
regime are being launched even more
strongly than was our mandarin and that
consequently any change in America's Viet-
nam policy is unlikely for the near future.
Duty, my friendship for your great Nation,
and love of my own country nonetheless,
compel me to continue my appeals for com-
monsense in this important struggle. The
solution of Khanh and the sects is an in-
imaginative one. Followed too long, it will
complete the destruction of your efforts,
prestige, and interest in Vietnam. Only the
nationalist program offers real prospects for
an anti-Communist victory. Only a repre-
sentative nationalist government can create
a prosperous and powerful bulwark in the
image of Japan and West Germany, to face
the Communist threat and the neutralist
conspiracy of Prince Sihanouk. Within the
next few weeks I will be sending you a de-
tailed program which can?if it is applied
in time?save South Vietnam from what
appears to be almost certain disaster. This
nationalist program for unity and progress
outlines a step-by-step procedure for estab-
lishing the fundamental conditions for vic-
tory in Vietnam. I hope that you will find
this material both interesting and useful.
Please accept my deepest respects. I
/ remain,
Sincerely,
TRAN-VAN -TUNG.
TRA N"-VAN-TUNG
Tran-Van-Tung, renowned author of more
than 12 books on the culture and traditions
of his country, was born in 1915 in central
Vietnam, the eighth child of a well-known
_ and prosperous family. Constantly in search
of new knowledge, he acquired a Chinese
classical education, and then supplemented
it by studies in Paris.
? By the end of World War II, he was already
an acclaimed writer and journalist, several
times Laureate of the Academie Frangaise,
and prizewinner of the Academy of Political
Science in Paris for his farsighted and bril-
liantly written book, "Vietnam Faces Her
Destiny." Many of his works, which include
essays, poems, and tales of' Vietnam, have
been published by Mercure de France, Gras-
set, etc. His most recent books include "La
Colline des Fantornes" (Editions du Parc,
France), "Vietnam Against Communism"
and "Vietnam" (La Baconniere, Switzerland),
? "Vietnam" has also been published in Eng-
lish by PRM publishers of London.
Although he represented his country on
several important occasions, including the
anniversary of the French Revolution in 1939,
the Nationalist Asiatic Conference in India
In 1950 (where he first met Nehru and other
Asian leaders), and the Far East Conference
held in New York in 1952, Tran-Van-Tung
was primarily a man of letters, an historian,
and a thinker. Because of his strong hu-
manitarian principles and his firm belief in
the ideals of liberty, he has always been an
arch enemy of communism, colonialism, and
the monarchy in Vietnam, and has witten
articles expounding his views in leading
American newspapers, as well as in his books.
But it was only after disaster wiped out
his family and his possessions that Mr. Tung
began to take an active role in politics. Fol-
lowing the Communist invasion of central
Vietnam, his mother died of hunger, his five
brothers and seven sisters were assassinated
or imprisoned, and all his property was con-
fiscated. It is now 10 years since he has had
any news of his family from Communist-
controlled central Vietnam, and Tran-Van-
Tung has dedicated his life to the struggle
against the Communists who seek to conquer
the rest of Vietnam.
In 1952, while he was representing Viet-
nam at the FarEast Conference in New York
City, Mr. Tung was summoned to visit Ngo-
Dinh-Diem, who was then taking refuge at
the Maryknoll Seminary in Ossining, N.Y.
Mr. Tung met with Diem and urged him
to return to Saigon to help in the strug-
gle against communism. He continued to
support Diem until 1956, despite his grow-
ing disillusionment with Diem's policies and
dictatorial methods, and his inability to de-
feat the Communists. In 1955, the Demo-
cratic Party of Vietnam was formed to de-
fend the liberty and independence of the
young Republic. Mr. Tung is the guiding
light of this party, whose aim is to establish
a free and democratic government, and to
achieve, through a concrete program, the best
material, Intellectual, moral and social con-
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ditions for the people of Vietnam. When, in
1957, Diem hanned all national political
parties and imprisoned all leaders opposed
to him, Mr. Tung realized fully that Diem
had betrayed the cause of liberty in Viet-
nam, replacing the principles in which Mr.
'rung so strongly believes with a corrupt dic-
tatorship and totalitarian methods similar
to those employed by the Communists.
At present Mr. 'rung continues to fight for
liberty and to oppose communism and dic-
tatorship with all the strength of his force-
ful personality. He represents the new gen-
eration of Vietnamese, and Is the recipient
of many messages of esteem from such world
leaders as President John P'. Kennedy, Gen-
eral de Gaulle, Ramon Magsaysay, etc. He
leads a simple, ascetic life, reads voraciously,
and works untiringly. A man of thought, to
whom personal wealth is of no importance,
Tran-Van-Tung is a fervent nationalist, and
an anti-Communist by principle and ideal-
ism, as well as through personal tragedy.
For 10 years he has been actively engaged in
the struggle against communism, feudalism
and dictatorship. His one passion is his
country, and his only goal the liberty and
welfare of his people.
[From the Washington Post, May 16, 1984]
used in the battle of Europe?sit in the
capital of Saigon.
A regular Vietnamese Army of 250,000 plus
some 200,000 paramilitary members of the
Self-Defense Corps and the Civil Guard.
The rule of thumb ratio for fighting a
guerrilla war Is 'toto I. South Vietnamese
forces, exclusive of their American advisers,
outnumber the official estimate of Vietcong
by 18 to 1.
In addition, a highly placed U.S. military
authority in Saigon is reported to have
acknowledged that there hasn't been one
casualty to a Vietnamese officer above the
rank of captain in the past 2 years. He added
that once a man gets to be a major he seeks
a staff command back In Saigon, not a field
command exposed to fire.
In the face of these statistics, indicating
something is needed besides more men,
equipment. and money, the U.S. Air Force
and the Vietnamese military want more
bombing raids, and by Jets if possible.
Moreover a Joint Chiefs of Staff memo in
January reportedly pushed by the Air Force
over the reluctance of the Army deplores the
diplomatic inhibitions being put upon the
military. These restrictions confine bomb-
ing targets to within South Vietnam.
Now, with more planes and more pilots
circling the skies over a Vietnamese guerrilla
ground war significantly devoid of conven-
tional bombing targets, critics of the Air
Force think the temptation to bomb
vil-
lages under the labia of "Vietcong bases"
may become overwhelming.
But will such bombing win the war?
Those in Washington who say it won't,
and who oppose the U.S. Air Force and the
Vietnamese bomb advocates, contend the
answer is not more men, equipment, and
money.
These critics are not sure the war can
be won at all.
But if it can be. they argue that more at-
tention be paid to getting Vietnamese as well
as American brass out of Saigon, to decen-
tralize the u.s. military advisers, to dispatch-
ing U.S. military to South Vietnam on a
voluntary basis so they don't count the days
until their return, and to seeing to it that
U.S, aid gets out into the countryside where
it is needed.
BERKELEY. Cater.,
May 20, 1964.
VIETNAM STRATEGT?DOUBTS RAISED OVER MC-
NAMARA PLAN
(By Warren Banal
Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara's
press announcement Thursday on the de-
cision to beef up the South Vietnamese Air
Force Is causing considerable dismay among
some official quarters in Washington.
They see McNamara's decision as a green
light to those high officials in the U.S. Air
Force and the South Vietnamese military
who think they can win the war against the
Communist Vietcong by dropping bombs.
The Air Force theory is that a bomb is
the quickest, cleanest, and most effective
way of wiping out the Communists?within
South Vietnam as well as across the borders
in Communist North Vietnam and neutral
Cambodia.
But some State Department and U.S. Army
officials argue that what the Air Force calls
a 'Vietcong base" may well contain many
innocent Vietnamese farmers. They say
bombing them will only alienate the Viet-
namese people from both their own govern-
ment and the United States, and force them
to be more sympathetic toward the Vietcong.
McNamara, at his White House press con-
ference Thursday, announced an agreement
with the Vietnamese to increase the number
of planes in the Vietnamese Air Force, as
well as to double the present 200 South Viet-
namese pilots.
On Wednesday. Air Force Secretary Eu-
gene IL Zuckert announced that 76 Navy
Kkyraider bombers, capable of carrying three
times the load of present U.S. planes In South
Vietnam now were en route to the war
front.
Yesterday, Presidential Press Secretary
George Reedy indicated Mr. Johnson soon
may be sending up a special budget request
to Congress to take care of increased U.S.
military assistance to South Vietnam.
All this would be in line with the tradi-
tional American response to send in more
men, equipment, and money whenever the
going gets rough?and particularly when
Congress begins heckling an administration
for not producing victories.
But what is the current situation in South
Vietnam?
Officially, the Pentagon lists the number
of Vietcong infiltrators at 25,000.
Against these there are:
More than 16,000 U.S. military "advisers."
2,000 to 3,000 of them actually in the field.
The rest, including some 14 to 15 generals?
enough for an Army group headquarters
Senator ()BURNING.
Washington, D.C.:
Students urge an immediate end to war In
Vietnam; withdrawal of U.S. troops and ma-
terials; abide by the 1954 Geneva agreement.
(The above telegram was signed by the fol-
lowing students:)
Deborah Rosamtua, James Taylor, Margie
Jacobsen. R. M. Hamilton. Carol Davenport,
Carla McCabe, Ronald 13layen, Wendell Brun-
ner. Edward Resenfeid, Dorothy Mith. Bruce
Gale, Alice Large. Frank Andrews. Stanley
Narrar, Denn S. Anderson, Stanley Pishkin.
Romer Greene, Jeff Lusting. R. Farrell, Mar-
sha
Ron wisocrkinM:reaDounglasWixmito mann, toJnat. k
Lin Jensen,
Judy Meyers, Eden Lipsom. Arnold Abrams,
George Goldman, Jerry Weber, Thomas Mil-
ler, Patti Ilyarna. Ken Cloke, Florence Yellin,
Christopher Stantiend. Christina Wren,
Sheila Walsh. Matt Canon, Bill Rotte-nberg,
Mark
Birn-
baum, Peterr Schaffer. Nicholas Jankowski,
Allen Bortel, Margaret Koster. Judith Toben,
Elsa Johnson. Carolyn Smith, Margarte Flani-
gan, Myren Wesshaw.
Roslyn Tumen, P. Drunks, David Walls,
Mark Davenport, Ellen Prank, Laurence
Slayen. John Perlman, Thomas Smith, Kath-
leen Barta. Michael Kogan. Jan Cattalos.
Gordon Wilson, Susan Davis, Henry Lorenvzi,
Michael Miller, Dave Minor, Bonnie Walters,
Robert Mese, Sandra Liuck, Alfred Walters,
?
Susan Miller, Roy Torkington, Marian Moses,
Allen Ren, Susan Garlock, Anita Levine, Carol
Furst. Ann Higginbottom.
Sander Fuchs, Richard Hoffmann, Leo
Downey, Amelia Clemens, Barbara Whitt,
Michael Whitt. Madge Strong, Thomas
Weller, Sandra Nicholson, Peter Aborn, John
Rooerts, Art Goldberg, Leanne Tannenbaum,
Steven Plageman, Armin Wright, Stepehen
Jacobsen, Hal Fretwell, Judith Beaton, Ellen
Horwitz, Tom Paine, Linda Murrell, Steven
Crafts, Jean Rothman, Harvy Meyers, R. Fat-
ienbaum, Bob Nakamura, Marie Holliday,
Ronald Atkin.
Anita Pita. Anne Boytin, Michael Galvin,
James Ogden. Tirnithy Thomas, Roy Doug-
las. Janet Weitzner, Henry Weinstein, Libbe
Hurvitz, Gerald Wick, Deborah Bartlett,
Carol Lyons, Judith Stein, Jerry Fish, Arlene
Comm, Alice Schwartz, Robert Dietrich,
Hugh Fowler, Paula Katz, Goerge Higginbot-
tom, John Williams, Elliot Costello, Thomas
Dodd, Judy Winston, Peter Muldavin, Linda
Smith, Penny Guy.
David Stein, Mary Kington. Priscilla Dud-
ley, Petter Bissell, Edwin Wilson. Ronald
Rohman, P. Sholund. Susanna Pale, Robert
Johnson, Colleen Eldridge, Stephen Wein-
stein, Richard Gardner, Eva Haves, Donald
Kelsey, Donna Launer, Arlene Blenne, Joe
Hacker, Jeannie Wald, Elaine Duncan, Eve
Corey. Susan Swift, Joe Webb, Brude Boston,
Robert Hayes, Bruce Cox, Jan Dash, David
Heath, Michael aillimah.
Stephanie Probst, Margaret Lima, Carl
Clevriow. Robin Rosenberg. Helen Fein, Mar-
lene Licht, Craig Moody, Mike Smith, Harry
Roberts, Carolyn Pardee, Rob Pierre, Rutham
Corwin, Abraham Bahr, Stephanie Waxman,
Sandra Breit, Claude Beagane, Bob Williams,
Earl Lab, Bruce Pohdron. Eugene Lavenger,
Chip Weitzner, Margie Tette, Ben Crites,
Maryanne Sea, P. Pharalyn.
Mr. MORSE subsequently said: Mr.
President, while I was serving as one of
the hosts of a group of visiting Orego-
nians, I was not on the floor of the Senate
when the Senator from Alaska [Mr.
GatrEringc] delivered his speech today on
South Vietnam, which he entitled "Bring
the War in South Vietnam Also to the
Conference Table."
I read the speech, and I congratulate
him again, as I have done repeatedly in
recent months, as the courageous, dedi-
cated Senator from Alaska has stood on
the floor of the Senate and spoken out
in righteous and rightful criticism of the
foreign policy of the United States in
southeast Asia.
His speech today is an additional chap-
ter in criticism of American foreign pol-
icy in South Vietnam.
I think so highly of this series of
speeches of the Senator from Alaska that
I would at this time suggest that, with
only the slightest of revision, they would.
be suitable for publication in a book.
It has been a matter of pride to me to
stand shoulder to shoulder with the Sen-
ator from Alaska [Mr. Gstrztarlol , the
Senator from Louisiana [Mr. ELLENDER),
and the other day the Senator from
South Carolina [Mr. JOHNSTON], in crit-
icizing American foreign policy in South
Vietnam.
To the extent that he has suggested
modifications in American foreign policy
in South Vietnam, I have also been
pleased to applaud the majority leader
of the Senate [Mr. Marrseisto]. I be-
lieve the statement that the majority
leader made of recent date, suggesting
that we ought to consider fully a pro-
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD --?SE
Dosal of the French for a change of pol- and what I say today and what I shall
icy_ in South Vietnam, is absolutely continue to say day by day, I shall have
sound., , z??,. many eastigations heaped upon my head,
But particularly wish to commend,. including those of yellow journalism, one
the Senator.frOril 41aalra his SPeeeh of whoSe Writers a_ storY todaY sug-
today. tn the news release it is stated ?Bested that the gepator from _Oregon
that_athe_gwg,oeiSiOn of the ,.T.Ohn- talked as if he were speaking from the
admitatratiPn. 1,67: i5,1:a',ce the Cam-' Kremlin.
bodia-gouth Vietnam border dispute in None of _those yellow journalists hate
the hand's 'OT the 'United Nations Seal- ,communisni more than does the Senator
ray 'Council has been praised by Sena- from Oregon. But I obviously love my
-tor ticiTEST b4iiiisuO today.? country more, because my country cries
= In, the speech itself, the first para- out for the application of the rule of law
graph reads as folITOWs; , for the settlement of the d.
, ,sputet for r
President and AinT?assad6r Ste- southeast Asia, My countryh cries nn
venson 'are',Up' be -highly congratulated for a return to the fulfilling of its oblika-
taking a pert-fon Of the Southeast Asian tions under the United Nations Charter.
-mess to the United Nations. ,That is, precise- Adlai Stevenson, in his speech of yes-
? ly where it belongs. I have so urged ever terday, in paragraph after paragraph,
&pee gar6h lo, 1904, when I spoke in the
walked out on the very organization in
Senate, and stated that the unite,d, States
? should get out of South Vietnam and un- which he sits as the Ambassador from
? Mediately Pull our troops back from the the United States. He walked ollt ,DA
fighting front. _ article 33, article 37, and article 51. Hp.._
Walked out on the pledges of the United
wish, to say I am glad the president States, under the United Nations Char-
arid M. Stevenson, our Ambassador to ter, to resort to peaceful procedures, and
the Vnited Nations, at long_ last have not military might, for the settlement of
lippafentlY Come to recognize that the disputes that threaten the peace of the
United -Nations has aP interest wbat
world.
goes on in South _Vietnam. T4a, is
Of course it is not pleasant for me to
Some progress. .
say this?a longtime admirer of the
,The Senator from AlaSkkalso points great Stevenson. I resigned from the
out in his speech that comments of van- Republican Party in 1952, in the midst
oils newspaper columnists and corre- of a campaign, so I could campaign for
Spondents today indicate that this may Stevenson. I thought I had no ethical
be the _beginning of a change of policy right to remain in the Republican Party
- on the part of the bnited_States, where- and campaign for him as the Democratic
by we shall gradually take the South candidate. But the Stevenson for whom
VietnaM matter to the I/M.4d Nations. I campaigned in 1952 and 1956 was not
eI not only hope so?I pray for it. the Stevenson who talked in the Security
But the suggestion that the caul-
- Council of the United Nations yesterday.
bodian dispute be handled by the United He never before made a speech consisting
'Nations will, of eourSe,,PAPt, _Salve the of such a chain of non sequiturs and ra-
_ Probleni. As I pointed, out in a_long tionalizations of unsound policies. But
speech_ fn the Senatc Jas.& night, the en- he was mouthing the policy of our Gov-
tire, ,soitnea,st Asia issue, should _have ernment.
been taken by the United States to the An ambassadorship is not worth that
- United NatiOns, months age: The United price. So I am again raising my voice
States Should stop its illegal, unconsti- in plea today that this country go back
tutional course o aetiou iii South Viet' into the United Nations in fact?in prac-
nail, resulting in the unjustifiable kill- tice?rather than merely keep a member-
Ing of American boys. ship in it.
This gesture on the part of the U.S. I am raising my voice in plea again
GoverriMent, through _the lips of Adlai today that the United States lay the
Stevenson yesterday that the Cambodian. whole southeast Asia issue before the
border disPute he taken to the United United Nations and put Russia on the
Nations is far from a satisfactory pro- spot. Let Russia dare to use the veto
156sal for a 8-91*itm et tie. si.itb Viet' in the Security Council on the question
nam of taking jurisdiction of the southeast
As Isaid last night, and as I repeat Asia issue. If she does, the course of
today, I think the speech of Adlai Ste- conduct of my Government should be
Ammon SresterdaY was unfortunate, un- clear. We should call for an extraordi-
sound, and inexcusable, nary meeting of the General Assembly
Adlai Stevenson knows better, He can of the United Nations and lay the whole
never justify the use of his lips yester- issue before it. Let the General Assembly
_day in uttering a speech in Which he of the United Nations determine whether
walked cut time ancl time, again from the United Nations will attempt to main-
the glorious record of statealliallShil) that tam n peace, which is its primary purpose.
he has Made ill the Past. That is behind We support this type of procedure and
us now. ,The question is whether or not program in the Middle East, in the Congo,
-this country is to make a recovery. It in Cyprus, wh3r not in southeast Asia?
St te ? '
Is a question of whether or net the United We should not limit a proposal for United
last,oIiJg, at long to reassert Nations jurisdiction to South Vietnam.
Itself for: the application of the rule of It involves North Vietnam. It involves
laW, in. the sattlement p disputes that Laos. It involves Cambodia. The whole
- thrpaten_the,peace of the world, rather area of Indochina should have United
, than rattle the U4 sahre and, behind the Nations jurisdiction extended to it and
scenes, get' ready to escalate the war into maintained in order to keep the peace.
North Vietnam. For that is what is go- I am aghast, Mr. President, at my
ing on now. For what I said last night Ambassador in the United Nations, Mr.
11369
Stevenson, suggesting as American policy
our opposition to another conference
called for by France of the Geneva ac-
cord membership. We did not even sign
the Geneva accord of 1954. We are the
last country to talk about not having a
conference of the signatories to the Ge-
neva accord of 1954. In my judgment,
France should be applauded for suggest-
ing the reconvening of the Geneva accord
conference. This time, if it is recon-
vened, I hope that the United States will
sit as a member, and a voting member,
and, by way of peaceful procedures of
international law, reach a settlement or
a program for seeking to maintain peace
in South Vietnam, and not to make war.
What a reflection on the United States
that in southeast Asia today the United
States is making war. What does that
do to all the professings of our leaders
about, their desire to promote peace? We
do not promote peace by making war.
We do not promote it by following a uni-
lateral military course of action resulting
in the loss of thousands of lives, and
which is now beginning to result in the
loss of several hundred American lives.
If we do not stop this holocaust, I warn
again?as I have warned many times on
the floor of the Senate in the past sev-
eral weeks?that thousands of American
.boys will be killed in southeast Asia.
For if this war is escalated into North
Vietnam, a holocaust of major propor-
tions will result.
I have no intention of sitting in the
Senate and supporting a program which
will kill American boys in the jungles of
Indochina without any justification.
Mr. President, I hope that my Gov-
ernment will go much further than
merely to suggest that a United Nations
council or peacekeeping corps of some
kind be set up to patrol the borders of
South Vietnam and Cambodia. Along
with the Senator from Alaska [Mr.
GRuENINs], I would welcome that, of
course. It is better than nothing, but
not much better than nothing. It could
be the beginning of a full-scale program
of returning to the United Nations in
practice. That is what I hope it will
lead to. But we do not have much time,
for the situation can get out of hand.
We have been dragged before the Unit-
ed Nations by a complaint from Cam-
bodia. As the Senate knows, for many
weeks past I have been warning in my
almost daily speeches that sooner or
later we would be called to render an
accounting before the United Nations
on this issue. It was up to little Cam-
bodia to file its complaint, after she had
kicked us out of Cambodia.
If it were not so tragic, it would be
amusing to read that part of Stevenson's
speech yesterday which admitted viola-
tion of Cambodian borders in the in-
cidents in which we were caught red-
handed.
? I have received many letters written
by American servicemen in South Viet-
nam to the effect that violations of the
borders of Cambodia have been frequent.
We must expect that to happen, Cam-
bodia is a small territory. With all the
air combat going on, it must be expected
that violations of her borders will oc-
cur. That does not make it right. That
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11370 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
ney General to institute suits to protect which have ben made over the centuries
constitutional rights in public facilities to abrogate it, in the hope that the les-
and public education, to extend the sons of history will be heeded:
Commission on Civil Rights, to prevent TRIAL BY JURY: 'CRT-LINZ OF ORIGINS AND
discrimination in federally assisted pro- EFFORTS To ABROGATE
grants, to establish a Commission on A. ENGLISH ORIGINS OF TRIAL BY JURY
Equal Employment Opportunity, and for Modern scholars agree that trial by jury
other purposes. as we know it today had its origins in medie-
Mr. TALMADGE. Madam President, val England in the first century and a half of
throughout all of Anglo-Saxon history, Norman rule when William the Conqueror
from ancient England to the present and his heirs sought to strengthen their
time, the people have come to learn that
hold upon the foreign land which they had
conquered.
the right to a trial by jury is of the 1. The Anglo-Saxon system of justice which
utmost importance to the preservation William discovered in England at the time
of their life, liberty, and property. of the conquest had elements that fore-
History shows that this was a hard- shadowed the use of juries. The courts were
learned lesson, and that often, in order Presided over by a reeve (sheriff), and 12 sen-
to assure themselves this right, the peo- tor thanes (lords) usually acted as the judges.
pie were compelled to resort to rebellion According to a law of Ethelred (c. 981),
they "swear on the relic that is given to them
and even bloodshed, and revolution In hand, that they will accuse no innocent
man, nor conceal any crime." The customary
method of asserting innocence was for the
accused to bring forward 12 compurgators,
who would swear together on his sound char-
acter and good reputation. These two ele-
ments, combined with a reliance upon sworn
witnesses and neighbors and upon openness
In all dealings presented the legal background
upon which the Normans. built a formalized
procedure.
2. The earnest clear use of the jury is
found in the sworn Inquest, originally a
Prankish or perhaps even Roman practice
whereby the ruler sent out his agents to
question people throughout the kingdom on
any matter of government or administration
which Interested him. William the Con-
queror instructed his agents to summon a
number of reliable, knowledgeable men in
"every shire and hundred," put them on
oath to tell the truth, and then ask about
landholdings, property, previous tax assess-
ments, and similar matters. These sworn in-
quests provided the material for the Domes-
day Book, which recorded the names and
properties of all landholders. One of the
most famous of these inquests was held dur-
ing William's reign on Pennenden Heath
where Lanfranc, Archbishop of Canterbury,
reclaimed the lands which had been taken
from the archbishopric by Williams' ruth-
less half brother. Odo of Bayeux. For 3 days
all the important men of the county were
heard, swearing that Lanfranc was the law-
ful holder of the lands in dispute.
3 The function of the jury as essentially a
May 22
does not excuse it. But that is a part
of the warmaking business. What I
wish to do is to get my country out of
the warmaking business into the peace-
keeping business. We are a member of
a great organization known as the
United Nations which has as its Primary
purpose?in fact, its objective?the
maintenance of peace by resort to peace-
ful procedures of international law en-
compassed by reference in the United
Nations Charter.
So I say to my President, to my Secre-
tary of State, to my Secretary of De-
fense?and now to Adlai Stevenson:
"Please bring to an end your illegal
McNamara's war in South Vietnam.
Stop it. Call upon the United Nations to
take over and maintain a peacekeeping
corps in southeast Asia which will bring
an end to the killing that is going on.
I state once again the great tenet of a
great Republican who was my best teach-
er in the field of foreign policy. I have
cited it before, but it needs to be repeat-
ed again and again, because we have pre-
tended that it was the basis of American
foreign policy vis-a-vis the United Na-
tions. I want to make it not a pretense
but a reality. That great Republican
from Michigan, Arthur Vandenberg,
chairman of the Foreign Relations Com-
mittee of the Senate, one of the archi-
tects of the San Francisco Charter, at
one time the leading isolationist in the
Senate, to become, in my opinion, the
leading internationalist of this body, left
us the tenet which I should like to leave
with the Senate again today, as I close
my remarks:
There is no hope for permanent peace in
the world, until all the nations of the world,
not just those we like but all the nations
of the world are willing to set up a system
of international justice through law to the
procedures of which will be submitted each
and every dispute that threatens the peace
of the world, for final and binding deter-
mination, to be enforced by an International
organization such as the 'United Nations.
I recommend this tenet for reappraisal,
review, and reconsideration by the heads
of my Government, the President, the
Secretary of State, and the Secretary of
Defense?and I suggest that Adlai Ste-
venson reconsider it also.
I suggest that Adlai Stevenson, as the
American Ambassador to the United Na-
tions, who owes a trust not only to the
United States but also to the United Na-
tions itself, proceed to do what he can
to implement that great principle of
American foreign policy, at least as a
first step to return on the long road of
retreat from statesmanship which he
made yesterday, when he delivered that
unfortunate, unfounded, and fallacious
speech before the Security Council of
the United Nations.
[Applause from the galleries]
CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1963
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the bill (H.R. 7152) to enforce the
constitutional right to vote, to confer
jurisdiction upon the district courts of
the United States to provide injunctive
relief against discrimination in public
accommodations, to authorize the Attar-
against rulers who would oppress them
and attempt to make them mere chat-
tels of the government.
It is a difficult thing, and this we all
know, to take the power to oppress away
from government once it has been given
this power. Governments always are
hungry and thirsty for power, and once
it is placed within its grasp, it is next
to impossible to ever take it away. So
It has been throughout all of history, and
so it is today.
We have liberty and freedom in Amer-
ica. We owe it to the courage, foresight,
and the wisdom of our forefathers. It
Is a rich heritage that we enjoy as have
no other people in history.
We are a free people because our sys-
tem of government is based upon the
sound philosophy that all power of the
Government is derived from the consent
of the governed. In this country, the
actions of the Government is determined
by the will of the people. The will of the
people is not bent to the will of the state
as it is in totalitarianism and communis-
tic government.
However, we must ever be vigilant to
protect our rights and freedoms and not
to take them for granted. For history
also has shown that when the people are
unwary and not careful about the power
they bestow upon their government, they local factilnding board continued through
have found themselves entwined in the the reign of Henry II in the inquest on sher-
iffs to inform the King about the conscien-
tiousness of his representatives, and through
One of the most basic of all of the the reign of Richard I in the assessment by
rights of the American people is the local juries of the Saladin tithe of 1188, the
right of a trial by jury in OW courts of first tax on income and personal property,
law in all criminal prosecutions. With- needed to finance Richard's crusade.
out this right, we would soon lose all that 4. The scope of the jury was greatly ex-
we hold dear. It Is interesting to trace Panded by Henry II as a means of indicting
the Anglo-Saxon history of jury trials those who had violated the King's peace by
robbery, thievery, murder, arson, or counter-
and it is especially noteworthy to see how feting. In these assizes, the itinerant jus-
this right evolved from ancient history, ticea were assigned definite schedules and
to Magna Carta, to the Declaration of areas in which they were to try in the King's
Independence, to the Constitution, and name all men accused by their neighbors of
to the present day. these misdeeds. Henry Il also initiated three
And when we see how people have new actions whereby the decision of a jury
would determine whether anyone had been
struggled and fought and died to secure wrongfully ousted from possession (as dig-
the right to a trial by jury, It under- tinct from title) and if so would immed1-
scores the amazement which I feel in ately reinstate him.
finding myself compelled to stand in this 5. Thus the jury was originally developed
Senate today to speak in its behalf, to -DOt to give a verdict but to supply evidence
defend it and to urge it. on oath, as witnesses do today. Insofar as
To my mind, it is not a debatable issue. this evidence amounted to an indictment,
tht juries were parallel to modern grand ju-
It is as basic and fundamental a right
ries. Until the 13th century, the indictment
as any to be found in the Constitution. by jury was followed by a trial by ordeal, bat-
I now wish to read a history of illrY tie, or compurgation (in which the accused
trial, with particular emphasis on efforts endeavored to produce as many men as pos-
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1964 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
?
11371
sible to swear to his innocence). 011:ly as the belongings wtihout a trial by jury; and Islfr. TALMADGE. The Senator is en-
men mine to doubt the validity -61 ordeals, -..
7- I am wholeheartedly in agreement with
the church refused to pre:side Mier the dr- this principle.
deals, which thus could not-be said to reflect Our Constitution declares, In article
God's will, 'and as Men became willing to ac-
cept the opinion of a second, deciding jury III., section 2, paragraphtclearest
3, in languagen ouncer-
(which'inight contain the same personnel as tam terms, and in he lea re t
the intlictin.g juri"), did trial-by jury become possible, that "the trial of all crimes,
universal, Ironically, hoVieVer, a-ll men were except in cases of impeachment, shall
still thou,ght to be entitled to God's verdict be by jury."
through ordeal? rather than to be forced to Furthermore, to reenforce this provi-
rely upon a mere human decision, and trial sion, to insure it for our people for all
by battle-was not formally abolished inEng-
land until the -18th century. time, the right to a trial by jury was
6. Trial by jury was always a privilege 0f.. provided for in the Bill of Rights.
fered Only by the king in his courts : The In the sixth amendment we are told
feudal lords were not permitted to offer jury so that no one could mistake its mean-
trials ,but wereShemselMethe judges in their ing, that accused persons shall enjoy the Practically a Frankenstein monster?
own courts, As a -result,' since many cases right to a speedy and public trial in all Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is
? involved alleged malpractices by the lords, criminal prosecutions; not some crirni- correct. The star chamber proceedings
litigants relied more and more on the icing's
courts with their relatively impartial juries. nal prosecutions, Madam President, but started out to correct abuses that then
'
This increased appeal to the royal courts, all criminal prosecutions; not only where existed in England. But they became so
cauSed almost entirely by the innOVationof a person may be sentenced for nfore than horribly corrupt that the people rebelled,
jury trials, was perhaps the greatest -single a certain number of days or fined more Charles the First last his head, and the
factor in the development of a strong cen- than a given number of dollars, but "in star chamber procedure was abolished.
tral aciminiStretiOn in Bngland, an adminis- all criminal prosecutions." Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Can the Sen-
tration which, Moreover, was never wholly I continue reading: ator tell me whether the star chamber
dependent upon the feudal classes for its
services not" evr wholly divorced from the C. ATTAINT OF JURORS AND STAR CHAMBER trials were those in which the great liar,
e
Middle classes who helped to 'ad-minister its '1. The greatest threat to jury trial in the Titus Oates, would testify as a profes-
justice. - ' - Middle Ages was the decreasing strength of sional witness?
. _ ?
. mAem CAR -TA Alm 7 ? ,J:CtRy - , the kings who controlled the royal justice. Mr. TALMADGE. I believe that was
os TWI,11 ,
For whenever a weak king came to the illustrated in my research.
aiSUse 0 of k..aRn'a' Carta -iiiidedi '"isT0' throne, the feudal 'nobles did not hesitate Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Were the
freefnan shall be taken or tend] imprisoned- to bribe or theaten jurors flagrantly. Many star chamber proceedings those in which
or disscised or exiled or in any way destroyed, kings, often handicapped by the need of
,
nOr 111 We go upon him, except by the law-
noble support for foreign wars, had not the a man did not have an opportunity to
*
ful judgment of his peers or [and' by the power to check these mighty bons. confront and cross-examine his accuser,
law of the land." Modern scholars are, Zgreed 2, The process of attaint, originally de- or the witnesses who were called to testi-
that this 'did- nnt refer Specifically to trial vied to provide extra protection to the de- fy against him?
by jury_ at that time. itatli-er it Was intended fendant, constituted one royal weapon Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is en-
to put an end to rapacious Ring -John's- ha-bit against the corruption of justice. It was tirely correct. That is the weakness of
of taking hostages, levying exorbitant fines, really an extension of the original concept
and imprisoning nobles withmit even con- of the jury as a panel of witnesses rather any system that does not have the pro-
/MA-log his Own council of barons. But both than judges. When the jury gave a verdict tection of the devices that our fore-
in its immediate effect and in Its later inter- _that seemed to contradict the known facts, fathers devised?that is, indictment by
pretation, the clause did contribute to the the jurors themselves could be tried or at- a grand jury, the opportunity to cross-
idea that Oen' man was entitled to a legal tainted ,for perjury, convicted, and Impris- examine witnesses, to have a jury trial,
hearing before any penalty, detention, or dls- orieg. This practice, although originally in- to be represented by counsel, and all
tended to remedy abuses len Itself ver
P0s8essinn. .. , t lf
, . . _ , .e _ _ .. a the protections that have developed
tirely correct. It was an improvement
over the then existing system. But as
the Senator is well aware the Star cham-
ber itself became very corrupt. Charles
I, I believe it was, later lost his head be-
cause of the star chamber trials.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Is that not
one more example of how the theory that
"The end justifies the means" can go
astray and do great harm by starting
with a meritorious purpose, but with a
method which denies people their fun-
damental freedoms, with the result that
in the end it is a very horrible thing,
easily to further abuse sinc the feudal lordy
s
Madam President, I wish to repeat that .' throughout history as being vitally nec-
were also able to attaint juries who decided
this provision of Magna Carta provided against them. The result was that jurors essary to insure a fair trial for the ac-
that no person shall be deprived of his occupied a very precarious position and that cused and to preserve liberty for all our
freedom or property "except by lawful litigation often dragged on for as much as people.
Judgment of his peers, or by the law of half a century. Actions for attaint were not
Mr: LONG of Louisiana. Does the
the land." ???finally prohibited until the famous ushell Senator recognize the fact that under
case of 1670 when a judge attempted to im-
Are we now to go back on Magnathe terms of the bill, the Attorney Gen-
prison a whole jury for a verdict with which
Carta? Are we to go back on our Con- eral would be given the power not only
- he disagreed. By that time, juries were
clearly recognized as decisionmaking rather
stitution, in which in four instances, to dispense with the jury trial?if the
there is provided a jury trial in the pros- than evidence-giving bodies, and therefore judge would go along with him?but he
ecUtion of criminal cages? Are we to the charge of perjury was no longer appli- would also have the ability to have the
turn our backs upon so, fundamental a cable. Actually with the coming of the case tried before a judge whom he, as a
right as that of trial by jury') strong Tudor and Stuart governments the practical matter, had recommended for
the Federal bench, and who perhaps
hoped to obtain a promotion by means
of the recommendation of the same At-
torney General. Is it not true that the
Attorney General would also have the
Power, in the event he thought that judge
would not decide in his favor, to bring
in two additional judges?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is cor-
rect. The Senator has placed his finger
on the weakness of the whole situation.
Under the revised amendments that have
been discovered somewhere by the ad
hoc, unknown committee, and which
have been circulating around the Cham-
ber?from no Senate committee, inci-
dentally?the Attorney General would
even be authoriges1 to determine in what
areas of the country, in what cities, or
in what towns cortAin laws would be ap-
Madam ? President this is precisely lengthy process of attaint had fallen into dis-
what we would be doing if we were to
enakt this force legislation which, in at 3. The Tudor and Stuart method of insur-
ing fair juries was more direct, but per-
least Ave of itsAitles would pe
, " rmit hon - haps also more repugnant to our own ideas
est, hard working, sincere and law-abid- of justice. The court of the star chamber
ing citilens to be haulea befoie a Fed- which had gradually developed from the
eral tribunal by the Attorney General king's privy council and was comprised of
and sumnwily sent to jail without bene- certain privy councilors, bishops, and judges,
fit of trial by jury, without having their was in 1487 given specific jurisdiction to
guilt or innocence decided_orpassed upon hear and settle in closed session any disputes,
by 12 mengood anruerom their own
legal, judicial, administrative, in which the
interest of the king was involved.
communities.
We cannot compromise this right by Mr. LONG of ? Louisiana. Madani
providing that some accused persons in President, will the Senator yield?
some cases wollid be _given a trial by Mr. TALMADGE. I yield.
jury if accused of criminal Contempt of Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Does the
court Under the harsh arid punitive pro- Senator's research on the subject indi-
vision 9i this ipisnm?Jegislation. cate that the organization of the star
1,Tagna, part*, Provided that no man chamber actually had a good and worthy
should suffer the loss of his freedom or purpose when it first started?
No.
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11372 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
plicable before bringing the defendants
to trial before the judges he had ap-
pointed.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Is the Sen-
ator aware of the fact that it is in the
fifth oircuit that the bill is hoped to have
Its greatest impact?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is
correct.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Is the Sen-
ator aware that the presiding judge in
the fifth circuit has had a way of being
appointed on the three-judge courts
when they prefer two judges who have
a way of deciding against white people
In certain cases?
Mr. TALMADGE. If the Attorney
General wants to carry it a step further,
he can select the stacked judges under
all conditions.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Would it not
be fair to say that when he asked for a
three-Judge court, it would be known
what two judges he wanted to select for
the three-judge court?
Mr. TALMADGE. That is correct. He
would want to select Judges who he knew
had preconceived notions.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Would it not
be fair to say that the effect of the bill
would be that in the event the case were
to be tried before a judge who had the
respect of the community, the Attorney
General would want to be sure that he
could bring in two additional judges
who might be despised by the same com-
munity?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator has
stated it correctly. A year or two ago,
a Judge from North Dakota was brought
to Arkansas to try a case.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. That was
before they got John Minor Wisdom, and
others of his caliber.
Mr. TALMADGE. That is correct.
They try to deprive the defendants of a
trial by Jury, and then they permit the
Attorney General to stack the court as
he sees fit by going all over the country
to select Judges whom he prefers. I
thank the Senator for his colloquy and
for his penetrating questions, which have
helped to demonstrate the evil that
would destroy the freedom of all citizens
in the country, whoever they are, where-
ever they may reside.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Would it not
be fair to say that the result of this
provision would be not only to deny a
man the right to be tried before a jury,
which the Constitution seeks to give him,
but also to guarantee to the Justice De-
partment that it can obtain two preju-
diced judges to hold against the defen-
dant?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is cor-
rect. The entire proposal is devised on a
"heads I win, tails you lose" basis. It was
drafted with that end in view.
Mr. LONG 'of Louisiana. I thank the
Senator.
Mr. TALMADGE. I continue to read
from the history of jury trial:
Originally the Star Chamber performed a
useful task, settling disputes between and
punishing important barons who might
otherwise have escaped through common law
loopholes, looking into cases of alleged jury
corruption, handling many administration
matters equitably and efficiently, and in gen-
oral reinforcing rather than competing with
the other branches of royal justice.
4. But, as with many other institutions
founded in the best of faith and very well
equipped to handle certain Immediate prob-
lems, the star chamber tried to extend its
potentially unlimited power into fields where
It should never have gone. Under Charles
I the bishops on the court undertook to
punish religious writers with whom they dif-
fered. to try to enforce a censorship on all
printed matter, and to mete out cruel and
unusual punishments for minor political
offenses. The Star Chamber had clearly out-
lived its usefulness as a method of con-
trolling rebellious barons and was becoming
an instrument for religious and political
persecution. The star, chamber with its de-
nial of the trial by jury which Englishmen
had come to feel was their right constituted
one of the main grievances against Chtirles
I. and was an important element in his
fall. One of the first acts of the Parliamen-
tary Party after it had gained the upper
hand was to abolish the star chamber in
1641, and to assert the right of every English-
man to a fair and open judgment by his
peers.
5. Nevertheless, unscrupulous Judges con-
tinued to use the threat of attaint and fines
against jurors with whose verdicts they dis-
agreed. In the famous trial of William
Penn. the Quaker, in 1670, the judge and
court officials threatened the jurors with
starvation, fines, and other punishments if
they did not declare the defendant guilty of
speaking at an unlawful (that is, Quaker)
meeting. When the jury absolutely refused
to alter their verdict, the judge had them
all taken to Newgate prison, where they
remained until the court of common pleas
declared their commitment illegal.
6. Another Instance of the power which
Judges could wield over juries fearing pun-
ishment themselves is shown by the bloody
circuit of Judge Jeffreys in 1686. Jeffreys
headed an ecclesiastical commission which
set out to punish all nonconformist sympa-
thizers of Monmouth's rebellion. Be brow-
beat and threatened Juries ruthlessly, with
the result that over 300 people were killed
and over 800 sold into slavery. This abuse
of the right to a fair jury trial was an im-
portant contributory cause of the glorious
revolution, which deposed James and his
heirs from the throne forever.
D. TRIAL BY TURD' IN 1INGLAND DURING THE
TRENCH WARS
During and after the French Revolution
a panicked fear of revolutionary elements
led to repressive censorship and severe cur-
tailment of civil liberties in England. But
fortusately there were also men like Charles
James Fox who continued to place faith in
the people and who eventually won several
Important victories for the principle of trial
by jury.
1. In 1793 Parliament passed an act sus-
pending habeas corpus for a year in certain
cases. This set, renewed several times, abro-
gated the ancient privilege conferred by the
writ, and therefore in effect denied the ac-
cused the right to a jury trial before detain-
ment. Although most of the upper classes
accepted this as necessary protection against
revolutionaries, Charles James Fox never
ceased to protest this invasion of civil liber-
ties and the denial of trial by jury. Fox
himself was expelled from the Privy Council
In 1798 for proposing the toast "Our sover-
eign?the people.' But within a decade, the
crisis abated, his words were heeded, and
habeas corpus and the right to trial by Jury
were restored, never again to be suspended
In England.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Georgia yield to me for
a question?
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. WAL-
TERS in the chair), Does the Senator
from Georgia yield to the Senator from
Alabama?
Mr. TALMADGE. I am delighted to
yield to the distinguished Senator from
Alabama for a question.
Mr. SPARKMAN. First, I commend
the Senator from Georgia for his con-
tinuing and very able, clear, and lucid
defense of the right of trial by jury.
Mr. TALMADGE. I thank the distin-
guished Senator from Alabama. I re-
turn the compliment, because he has
made some of the most magnificent
speeches it has been my pleasure to hear
since I have been a Member of the Sen-
ate. I compliment him heartily.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I thank the Sena-
tor from Georgia.
By the way, I used the phrase "defense
of the right of trial by Jury." Did the
Senator from Georgia ever believe he
would be called upon to defend that
right?
Mr. TALMADGE. Even before I en-
tered law school, I used to go to court,
occasionally, to watch my father try
cases. Then I entered the University of
Georgia. and studied civics and history;
and later I entered law school. I learned
that the greatest right free men and
women have is the right of trial by jury.
It took bloody revolutions and sacrifices
over hundreds of years to achieve this
greatest of human rights. I never
dreamed that at this late hour, in the
year 1984, almost 1,000 years after Magna
Carta, and almost 200 years after the
Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution of the United States, I
would be standing on the floor of the
U.S. Senate and would be defending and
speaking to protect and preserve the
right of the 190 million American people
to trial by jury.
Mr. SPARKMAN. And pleading with
other Senators of the United States to
vote to preserve the right of trial by Jury?
Mr, TALMADGE. The Senator from
Alabama is correct.
How Senators could ever read the his-
tory of the right of trial by jury and the
history of the Star Chamber trials and
the history of Judge Jeffreys, and the
history of similar developments, and
then say the jury trial system is anti-
quated and that we need to strike it down
and end the right of trial by jury, and
that our forebears were all wrong, and
that now we should turn the fate of our
people over to handpicked judges ap-
pointed for life, not elected by the peo-
ple, and let them determine all these
things, is more than I can understand.
Mr. SPARKMAN. And not even have
the cases tried by the judges regularly
assigned to the areas where the cases
arise.
Mr. TALMADGE. Oh, yes. The At-
torney General would be authorized to
"stack the deck."
Mr. SPARKMAN. And to assign to
the cases the judges he picked.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes.
Mr. SPARKMAN. By the way, under
the amendment of the Senator from
Georgia which calls for the right of trial
by jury, his amendment would be corn-
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,
,
1964 Ct)&aitESSIONAL RECORI) -- StNATE
plete, and would not necessitate any"ad-
.dition whatever, would? it?
-Mi. TALMA1O. That s c9.7e.ct?.
,LhT l'camseP crinl-
s of every kind and character.
-I point out that an identical amend-
mentWaS adopted by the Senate in. 1957,
by a Vote -of9-51.- t?42. One Of the co-
- authors Of the amendments
.t that time
was the late martyred President John
F. ItenriedY. Another Coauthor at that
time Was the distingiiiSlied' -Majority
leader of the U.S. -Senate, the -Senator.
froth Montana tar. MANsFrEibl. Fur-
the-1111.0e, the chrialuding speech Made
at that time on the. hoer of-the Senate
was :Made b the then digtinguished
Majority' leader of the Senate, Lyndon
B. JohriSen,. nOW".t!roi?404-61 the United
States.
StIARKMAN. " the way, that
sPeeth Wah'iii-faVer of the athendnient,
, _ ? ?.
Ura8: hcit
Mr. TALmAbot.- Indeed it was.
Furthermore, rpofnt out that the Sen-
atm' from Alabama anctIr_are nOW Stand-
' ing,for exactly What Jelin VAtenriedY,
lvIntE 11/14TSFitucand-I:yndoillEl.:Sehnson
,
,stobel for in 1957:7 _
??Mr. SflARXMAN, The Sex:rat:15'r_ from
Georgia -SubMittedhis m?rnent about
. ,
4 week S _a0c; did he notf
.1k4i; TAL4A-riql.4_ Yes it was ?t about
.thattiine.
,. SPA IOWAN. Si-riee rith ei,i4 We have
been seryeel With iloio?rtti,4 is a, go
far-:that a..tirand- nehilly be put
before*, preihaliiY some time next 'Week.
I have not ,counted the airierielkenta,ljbiit
I - uhtlerStancthae are more than '70
arrieridinents. _
- 1Vir. IA/MOM. r'kri 'srire the 8eii-
ittor'S source Of inforinagon s they same
as fiine. We l'eaCt It in .thejicess,, and
wellearrinflorS 'Op* 'it; and then: We ,
'hear oye,4: the_aiiWairOlhit_Ositnyte-
- Timis _conu4ttee which is unknown to
-the Senate is going tebring i?a bitt, and
that .".that 011 thic we will
be gagged, and " will have- to knuckle
? under, and-Will-Thavel19.t.44,1y44,-,4h4
Mr. SpAgIMAN, The .S has
-ieen-oitit-puficii0 to be the m#, aft
of that bill, has 1.7).?p not?
? .aye a
a-
' ilietnotailifiira that came to My: desk. It
was signed by a Senator,_ but it slici_not
have the imprint of any legislative cern-
inittee. t was riot giceenwanteid by..any
-COM-ran:tee report: There_was_no expla-
nation_.01, was ilpt ey.?eh_ohQcial
.Paper. t came into:_my_Affice_in spine
_ way, --viomo the ? window,
"whetker.,a page brought it in, whether
? -it came through the nig, or whether it
fell out ,of. the 44st:46,35:4PC the, Senator
from Oeorgia has no way of knowing,
lvfct PO:X.1014-, ql&Pr.P, wgjipnpnie
attachedrto. it ?,
? grA_was Xlanle
attach04' to the piece Ot_Aaapei". On the
MeniOilindtunTdocuna,ent? but there was
_
document
4tSelf.
?17,441*,C4,..4 pride
'tf
"afitniv.?1-4P, great,
19,.jt..__.?.4.wa?, a feund,hrig. From whence
eanieth no Opp knoweth.
_ 2..
Mr. SPARKMAN. What is that old
saying about our friend the mule? "No
pride of ancestry, no hope of posterity."
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is cor-
rect?"No pride of ancestry and no hope
of posterity." Perhaps the document
comes in that category. However, I wish
to defend the mule. In my more youth-
ful days I used to plow with a mule from
time to time.
Mr. SPARKMAN. So did I. I rode
the mule.
Mr. TALMADGE. It was a part of
the economy of Georgia, Alabama?, and
much of our Nation. The worthy mule
kept a good many of us from starving to
'death. I would not want the Mule to be
placed in the same category with this
other foundling about which I have
_
spoken.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I should like to say
something else about the mule, because
I join the Senator in paying high corn-
pliment to the mule. As the Senator
said, the mule has meant a good deal to
the economy of our country?not only
our section of the United States, but also
the entire Nation.
Mr. TArMADGE. The Nation and the
world, for that matter.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I remember- as a
boy hearing people say, when they talked
about putting out one's utmost and doing
one's best, "I will do my best, and that
Is all a mule can do."
Mr. TALMADGE. That is correct.
Mr. SPARKMAN'. That was a pretty
go6d compliment to the mule, was it not?
Mr. TALMADGE. That is entirely
cOrrect. I agree.
' Mr. SPARKMAN. We were speaking
about the rumored report that has been
going around that we shall be served with
a bill sometime next week, or perhaps not
Until after the California primary. Is
it not rather strange that activities in
faraway places affect the actions of the
Senate?
Mr. TALMADGE. It is unthinkable
to me that the Senate of the United
States should even consider primaries in
dealing with legislative subjects.
- Mr. SPARKMAN. But the Senator
has heard that rumor.
Mr. TALMADGE. I have heard the
rumor. In fact, I read it in the press.
Mr. SPARKMAN. We have heard it
over the radio.
Mr. TALMADGE. That is true.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The proponents of
the measure talk about cloture and re-
lated subjects, but they say that there
will be no move on the bill until after
the California primary.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes; I have seen
such a report in the press several times.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I am not so sure
that the proponents will offer that large
'Iackage of amendments, which must be
plmost a half-inch think?
Mr. TALMADGE. I have heard ru-
mors that there were 70- amendments.
Mr. SPARKMAN, More than 70.
Mr. TALMADGE. I do not know that
anyone has counted them. No one has
reported exactly what they are. But I
am sure that it will require considerable
tirae to analyze in detail the contents of
those amendments. For example, I. un-
derstand that one of those _amendinepW
11373
would authorize the Attorney General to
determine at his own pleasure what laws
of the Government would be applicable
in certain areas of the country. He
could say that' a particular law would be
applicable in a certain parish in Louisi-
ana and would not be applicable in an-
Other parish in Louisiana, or that it
would be applicable in Idaho, but not in
Gebrgia.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Would it not be
the other way around? Would it not be
applicable in Georgia but not in Idaho?
Mr. TALMADGE. 'Very likely. I am
talking about the discretion which would
lie in the hands, the bosom, and the
heart ef the Attorney General.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator knows
as a matter of general information how
it Would operate.
" Mr. TALMADGE. I have an idea, but
the Senator from Georgia has always
been under the impression that laws were
made to affect all people at all times and
in all places.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator from
-deorgia does not make that statement
about the pending bill.
Mr. TALMADGE. No; of course not.
Mr. SPARKMAN, I am talking about
the bill. Does the Senator know of any-
thing in the purported amendments, the
rumored bill, that would change in any
way the original provision with reference
tO trial by jury?
Mr. TALMADGE. Indeed not. All
that I have been able to hear about the
purported new bill is to the Opposite ef-
fect. It would draw the noose even
tighter. It would authorize the Attorney
General iii-gelect his courts at will and
to determine In what counties, parishes,
and State the bill would be applicable,
and in what areasit would' not be appli-
cable. Complete dictatorial powers
would be vested in the Attorney General
of the United States.
Mr. SPARKMAN. During the Sena-
tor's legislative career, either in the Con-
gress or inhis State, has he ever encoun-
teredlegition so discriminatory as the
measUrehefore the Senate?
Mr:TALMADGE. I never have, in all
the history of our great Republic.
Mr. SPARKMAN. That point leads
me to another subject. We must turn to
newspaper reports to determine what the
new bill, or the '70 amendments, would do.
Mr. TALMADGE. We must obtain
our information from the newspapers or
the airwaves, or some rumor that we pick
up from someone who has received in-
formation from other sources.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Three days ago I
was attracted by an article that appeared
In the Washington Evening Star under
the byline of J. A. O'Leary. The title of
the article was ''New Rights Bill Ac-
cord." Who accorded to it?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Georgia was not even invited to the
meeting. He had no knowledge that any
meeting was even occurring. He heard
of no witnesses being invited. He knew
of no testimony that was offered. There
was no opportunity to cross-examine
anyone. So far as the Senator from
Georgia knows, the proponents might
have met at a fortune teller's home and
.lad her pass,judgment on the document.
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Mr. SPARKMAN. In any event, the
Senator from Georgia is not privy to
their meeting or to their counsel.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Georgia was kept in deep darkness about
the whole subject; and, so far as! know,
virtually every other Member of the Sen-
ate was also.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I should like to read
the headline which I started to read:
"New Rights Bill Accord Bans Busing of
Pupils." Of course, we know that in the
'original bill the busing of pupils was
banned.
Mr. TALMADGE. No; in the original
bill the busing of pupils was not banned.
Mr. SPARKMAN. It was not banned,
, but it was not required.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes.
Mr. SPARKMAN. It was not required.
There was a provision in the bill specifi-
cally exempting the busing of pupils as a
requirement.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Alabama has reached the second step of
the evolution.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I did not mean in
the original bill which was presented to
the House, but I meant the bill as it came
to the Senate.
Mr. TALMADGE. The bill authorized
the hauling of schoolchildren to wher-
ever they could be carried to achieve the
greatest mixing effect.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator is cor-
rect on that point. I meant the original
bill so far as we in the Senate are con-
cerned.
Mr. TALMADGE. Then there was re-
bellion from certain areas of the country.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Including West-
chester County. The Senator knows
where that is, does he not?
Mr. TALMADGE. Oh, yes, indeed.
There was rebillion in certain areas of
the country.
Mr. SPARKMAN. There is no inte-
gration in Westchester County, N.Y..
Mr. TALMADGE. When the question
arose, the provision was stricken from
the bill on the floor of the House. Now
the bill has come to us as a document de-
signed to attain the maximum degree
of mixing in southern areas and a min-
imum degree of mixing in other areas.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. SPARKMAN. Will the Senator
permit me to conclude?
Mr. TALMADGE. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Alabama until he concludes his
colloquy.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Civil Rights
Commission is my authority for the
statement which I am about to make. I
call to the attention of the distinguished
Senator- from Illinois that the Civil
Rights Commicsion, which the Senator
has supported so well, pointed out that
the most highly segregated city in the
United States is Chicago.
Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield so that I may reply?
Mr. TALMADGE. Mr. President, I
shall yield in a moment.
Mr. SPARKMAN. They get by, by
saying that the segregation is not de
jure but is de facto. The segregation ex-
ists just the same, and the bill makes
certain that that segregation will not be
Interfered with. But I wish to call to
the Senator's attention the new proposed
amendments.
Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, since
the name of my city has been called in
question?
Mr. TALMADGE. Mr. President, I
ask unanimous consent that I may
yield at this point without affecting my
rights in any way whatsoever to the
floor briefly to the Senator from Illi-
nois for a reply.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I thank the Senator
from Georgia.
First let me say, on the question of
voting rights, that Negroes have equal
voting rights, and that Is the practice
In the city of Chicago. I wish they had
this right in Alabama, in Georgia, and
In other cities and States of the South.
Second, they have the legal right to
attend schools which are mainly attended
by whites; and a considerable number of
the schools of the city are in fact de-
segregated.
It is true that schools are in the main
constructed on neighborhood patterns, so
young children will not have too far to
walk to and from school. It is true that
residences tend to be concentrated, but
not entirely so, with Negroes in one sec-
tion of the city and whites in another
section, and that this of necessity results
In a considerable number of schools
which are, as the Senator from Alabama
has said, de facto segregated.
In the first place, this is not as bad as
though they were legally segregated. In
the second place, we in Chicago are try-
ing to achieve a greater degree of actual
desegregation.
A report has just been brought in by
a committee headed by Prof. Philip
Hauser, recommending that the school
districts be enlarged so that they will
include white neighborhoods as well as
colored neighborhoods, and that in the
elementary schools students be trans-
ported to the schools of their choice, at
public expense, and that freedom of
choice be given over the entire city so far
as high schools are concerned, but that
here each student would have to trans-
port himself at his or his family's ex-
pense.
I read in this morning's Chicago news-
papers that a committee of 20 has been
established as recommended by the
Hauser report to implement these rec-
ommendations and carry them out
So we are trying in a positive way to
overcome de facto segregation.
A third and very important feature of
the bill relates to public accommodations,
under title U. We have had in Illinois
a State public accommodations law since
1885, which has been progressively
amended and strengthened many times
since then, and never with a backs ard
step, always with a forward step. It in-
cludes not only the categories listed in
the pending bill, but barbershops and
a number of other categories which are
not included in the pending bill.
There is no segregation so far as parks,
playgrounds, and swimming beaches are
concerned. Formerly there was de facto
segregation on the swimming beaches,
but that is not true now.
Finally, so far as a fair employment
May 22
practices law is concerned, 2 years ago
the State passed a State fair employ-
ment practices act. The city of Chicago
had passed a fair employment practices
ordinance years before that, and we are
seeking to enforce it. The scope of cov-
erage is the same as that in the proposed
Federal act--ultimately a coverage of all
firms with more than 25 workers.
We have many problems in the North,
and we are certainly not perfect in the
way we handle these issues. I wish to
make that clear. We appreciate the
greater problems which our friends in
the South face, because they inherited
the evil system of slavery, which we were
fortunately spared, not necessarily be-
cause of superior character?
Mr. SPARKMAN. Because those in
the North sold them to the South.
Mr. DOUGLAS. But because of facts
of geography and climate. Those inKhe
South unfortunately have been cursed
with the results of the slavery system.
The point is that we are trying to im-
prove. We have already gone a long
way. We would like to see those in the
South catch up with us. We will also go
ahead more than we have.
Mr. TALMADGE. Would the Senator
support an amendment to restore to the
bill what it originally had in it?namely,
a provision to provide for the busing of
students in order to achieve perfect ra-
cial balance?
Mr. DOUGLAS. I do not think it was
ever in the bill.
Mr. TALMADGE. It was, when it
came to the floor of the House.
Mr. DOUGLAS. No. What happened
in the House was that there was inserted
In the bill a provision to the effect that
the bill did not deal with racial imbal-
ance inside a city. This is a matter for
local and State action; and we are will-
ing to let that question be decided locally.
I do not think this is a matter for na-
tional legislation, because I do not per-
sonally think we should abolish the sys-
tem of neighborhood schools; but I think
we can broaden our neighborhoods.
Mr. TALMADGE, Was the Senator's
answer in the negative or in the affirma-
tive? Would he support such an amend-
ment?
Mr. DOUGLAS. I do not think it
would be appropriate to offer such an
amendment.
Mr. TALMADGE. Is the Senator's an-
swer in the affirmative or the negative?
Mr. DOUGLAS. I will wait until such
an amendment is offered, but I am sur-
prised that the Senator from Georgia,
who claims to be such an apostle of
States rights, should invade not only
State but local and city rights. This is
centralization gone mad.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Georgia is defending States rights, but
the Senator from Illinois is now defend-
ing his own pattern of segregation.
Mr. DOUGLAS. No.
Mr. TALMADGE. I am asking the
Senator if he would support an amend-
ment to achieve perfect racial balance
In Chicago; and the Senator will not
answer my question.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I am supporting the
Hauser plan for the city of Chicago,
which provides for the widening of school
districts and a much greater degree of
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194 c6
desegregation in the schools, So that
'neighborhood schools would serve broad-
er neighborhoods so that both Negroes
and whites,to a greater-degree, could go
to those schools than at present. Will
the South accept the Rouse plan?
The statistical study which has been
presented shows that there are a very
large number of desegregated schools
now. It so happens that myown area?
Hyde Park Kenwood?is a desegregated
neighborhood. We get along together
very well. Our schools are desegregated,
approximately 50 percent Negro and 50
percent white.
Would that the city of Atlanta and the
city of Birmingham would do likewise.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. PreSi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. TALMADGE. I desire first to re-
spond to the 'Senator from Illinois.
Mr. DOUGLAS. And the 'city of New
0 1 .
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
- Mr. TALMADGE. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Louisiana.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. The statis-
tics for the year 1960, which are the
latest figures I have been able to obtain,
show that unemployment among the
whites in Illinois is 3.8 percent?less than
4 percent?while among the Negroes it is
11.5 percent.
Is it not hypocrisy to say that the
Congress should enact a law in order to
provide employment for Negroes, and
end with unemployment among the Ne-
groeS three times as much as =employ-
Ment among the whites?
Mr. TALMADGE. We in Georgia
would not want to wish that curse on
Illinois if the situation were reversed.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. These figures
are based on the dtatistics. Consider the
figures for Michigan. Unemployment
among the whites is 6 percent, while it is
16.3 percent among the Negroes.
Look at the figures for Pennsylvania.
For the whites unemployment is 5.8 per-
cent, and for the Negroes it is 11.3 per-
cent.
The ratio of Negro =employment is
107 percent greater in the North, in the
F-Epp States, than it IS in the South.
Would enactinent Of such a lay as is
proposed be the way to get a poor man
a job?
Mr. TALMADGE. -I do not helieve so.
I think it is the way to deny a man a job.
Mr. SPARK1VIAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield at this point for a mo-
Meht?
Mr. TALMADGE. I Yield.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator from
Illinois said that segregation in Chicago
was not legal. I suppose he means, it is
not required by law.
Mr. ,DOUGLAS, yes.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator, alight
be interested to know that Alabama has
not bad _single law requiring segrega-
tion in years.
Mr, DOUGLAS., It is enforced by the
shotgun and by other methods as well,
Mr. SPARKIVIAN. The Senator was
talking about Chicago and saying that
segregation is de facto. In Alabama It is
de facto.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I never thought the
schools of Birmingham were desegre-
gated.
Mr. SPARKMAN. It is not required.
Furthermore, the reason the Senator has
this integrated school in his neighbor-
hood is that currently Negroes and
whites live there together as they do in
the South. We do not have great ghetto
areas like those in Harlem, -Chicago,
Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Philadel-
phia?almost any city one could wish to
name.
The proponents were not content with
the bill as it was originally presented to
the House, not content even as it was
amended in the House. A new amend-
ment has been submitted, according to
the press. I do not know this to be true,
but it is quoted here. This is what it says
regarding the transportation of students
by bus. It does not say, "nothing in here
shall be construed to require it." It
provides:
Provided that nothing herein shall em-
power any court of the United States to is-
sue any order seeking to achieve a racial bal-
ance in any school by the transportation
of pupils or students from one school to an-
other, or from one school district to an-
other, in order to achieve such racial balance
or otherwise enlarge the existing power of
the court to insure compliance with the con-
stitutional standards.
Mr. TALMADGE. They went a long
way to prohibit anyone to make a ruling
like that, but as the Senator from Ala-
bama knows, he and I have been watch-
ing the situation, looking at photographs,
reading articles in the press, and watch-
ing television. There have been gigan-
tic school strikes in New York City, Phil-
adelphia, Cleveland, and Chicago, in
order to achieve racial integration. Now
a bill is brought in, the purpose of which
_is alleged to be to end discrimination
which prohibits the opportunity to
achieve a pure racial balance, if desired,
in Chicago, in Cleveland, in New York,
and other areas.
Mr. DOUGLAS. Just a moment?
Mr. TALMADGE. This might cause
considerable consternation in many
circles.
Mr. DOUGLAS. As a good Democrat,
may I be allowed to participate in this
discussion?
Mr. SPARKMAN. Is it not true that
the language I have read even re-
strains?
Mr. TALMADGE. It dares the judge
to even consider the question.
Mr, SPARKMAN. It takes it away
from the courts.
Mr. TALMADGE. It dares the judge
to enforce the order. It dares him to
consider it.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Yes?to carry out
constitutional standards.
Mr. TALMADGE. That is entirely
correct. The Senator has pointed out a
weakness in the particular measure.
Does the Senator from Alabama desire
to ask a further question? If not, I shall
yield at this time?
Mr. DOUGLAS. May I be heard?
Mr. SPARKMAN. If I may ask one
further question, then I shall cease And
desist.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I do not wish, the
11375
Senator to do that. I do not wish him to
leave the Chamber.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I was captivated by
this quotation in the press of several
days ago.
Mr. TALMADGE. It intrigued me, too.
In fact, I never heard of that particular
measure- being retained in any act. It
almost threatens any judge with im-
peachment if he dares to even consider
a matter of this kind.
Mr. SPARKMAN. It is a great arm of
the Congress, saying that the State
could?
Mr. TALMADGE. The only power to
remove a Federal judge would be through
the U.S. Senate.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator is cor-
rect. That would be the only way to do
- it constitutionally.
Mr. TALMADGE. That language
points a finger at the judge and says, "If
you dare even to consider such an issue as
this, the Senate will 'defrock' you." That
Is the meaning of it.
Mr. SPARKMAN. The Senator is cor-
rect. The Senator also knows that many
of us have thought from time to time
that some restraints should be placed
upon the courts.
Mr. TALMADGE. But that is not the
proper way to go about it.
Mr. SPARKMAN. There should be a
dividing line between the legislative and
the judicial branches. We know that
from the Constitution.
Mr. DOUGLAS. May I be permitted
to get into this game of table tennis that
is now going on?
Mr. SPARKMAN. An attempt is be-
ing made to tell the Supreme Court what
it cannot do. This is aimed not only at
the Supreme Court, but all the courts of
the United States.
Mr. TALMADGE. All courts, and in
the most brusque possible language?al-
most rude.
Mr. SPARKMAN. It is said, "Do not
do it. Do not do anything otherwise than
what is provided for under constitution-
al standards." Can anyone top that?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Alabama has put his finger on a very
weak point.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Let me mention an-
other point?
Mr. DOUGLAS. May I not be permit-
ted to get into this game of shuttlecock?
Apparently it is going to continue inter-
minably. May not this hapless Senator
be permitted to make a few comments?
Mr. SPARKMAN. I assure the Sena-
tor from Illinois--one day I mistakenly
called him "the Senator from Chicago."
Mr. DOUGLAS. I am very proud to
come from Chicago. I frequently refer
to my good friend the Senator from Ala-
bama as "the Senator from Huntsville."
Mr. SPARKMAN. I am proud of it.
I am proud to come from Huntsville.
Huntsville is my hometown.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Alabama has done a great deal of good
work in Huntsville. I am sure that he is
proud of Huntsville, as I am sure Hunts-
ville is proud of him.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Huntsville orbited
the first satellite the free world ever
built?let us not forget that. It has
?played a reat part in orbiting every
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
_yr
other satellite since that time. But I am Mr. TALMADGE. We are not talking
moving somewhat away from my subject about Supreme Court decisions, we are
now, talking about a law which the Congress
Mr. DOUGLAS. This seems like a of the United States will write.
Mr. DOUGLAS. The provision in the
proposed new title IV, to which the Sen-
ator from Alabama has called attention,
merely reaffirms in statutory form the
language in a recent decision of the Su-
preme Court, stating that in the absence
of legislation or in the absence of a
municipal ordinance, it is not?
Mr. TALMADGE. What the Senator
is talking about is legislation.
Mr. DOUGLAS. It is not a violation
of the 14th amendment to refrain from
transporting students by bus from one
section of the city to another; in other
words, the 14th amendment does not
carry with it the right to compel trans-
fer from one neighborhood school to an-
other by means of city-furnished trans-
portation.
If the Senator from Alabama and the
Senator from Georgia have some regard
for the language?
Mr. TALMADGE. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield at that point?
Mr. DOUGLAS. I should like to read
the language first.
Mr. TALMADGE. I should like to
clear up that point before the Senator
proceeds. The Senator from Georgia?
and I feel certain the Senator from Ala-
bama also?agree implicitly with what
the Senator from Illinois is saying about
the Supreme Court decision in the bus-
ing case. However, the Supreme Court
has also said the same thing about pub-
lic accommodations; yet the Senator
from Illinois wants to ignore it. And
at the same time he wants to hide be-
hind the Supreme Court's decision, and
keep his schools in Chicago segregated.
Mr. DOUGLAS. Does the Senator re-
fer to the 1883 decision of the Supreme
Court on the Federal public accommoda-
tions law of 1875?
Mr. TALMADGE. No; the decision
of the Supreme Court in 1963. The Sen-
ator is a fine economist, but sometimes
he is a little off base on his law.
Mr. DOUGLAS. There was a decision
of the Supreme Court in 1883. declaring
the Federal public accommodations law
of 1875 to be unconstitutional.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes.
Mr. DOUGLAS. But that has been
long since reversed in the mind of the
public.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator will
find that the Howard Johnson decision,
the one which originated in North Caro-
movable time.
Mr. SPARKMAN. This is what I tried
to move to a while .ago when the Senator
insisted on referring to shuttlecock, was
It?
Mr. DOUGLAS. Battledore and shut-
tlecock.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I was intrigued by
the quotation which I read in the news-
paper some time ago. This is what we
are talking about, in connection with the
proposed civil rights bill. That was H.R.
7152, but I do not know what it will be if
It has added to it several extra pounds
of amendments?more than 70 of them;
but this is what the speaker said:
But neither this law nor any law can be
a solution. We must recognize that law can
only provide orderly ground rules. It can-
not play the game. It is easy for us in the
North to patronize the South. It is so very
much easier to see the morality of problems
in Birmingham when you are sitting in
Boston.
I might insert there, "Chicago," but
the speaker said "Boston."
Whatever law is debated, whatever statute
Is enacted without public understanding?
Mr. TALMADGE. I certainly agree
with that.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Does the Senator
know who said that? This was in a
speech made by the Attorney General
of the United States.
Mr. TALMADGE. I would agree with
the Attorney General's comments at that
time, and I would urge him to read and
reread that same statement morning,
noon, and evening.
Mr. SPARKMAN. I could continue in-
definitely. I have enjoyed this colloquy
very much. I would appreciate it if the
Senator would allow my friend the dis-
tinguished Senator from Illinois to en-
ter into this colloquy, inasmuch as I
promised him that I would cease and
desist.
Mr. TALMADGE. I appreciate very
much the comments, the colloquy, and
the words of wisdom of the distinguished
and able Senator from Alabama. I agree
with his conclusions wholeheartedly.
I am now glad to yield to the distin-
guished Senator from Illinois [Mr. Douo-
Lss].
Mr. DOUGLAS. I thank the Senator
from Georgia. I am truly surprised that
such able attorneys as the Senator from
Georgia and the Senator from Alabama
should be so carried away by sectional llna, was passed upon by the Supreme
standards as to ignore the plain meaning Court as late as 1963. In that case the
of the revised bill which will shortly be Court held that a private businessman
presented to this body and have raisin- had a right to select his customers. The
terpreted the decisions of the Supreme Senator from Illinois wants to change
Court. It is painful but necessary to? that. He does not want to change the
Mr. TALMADGE. I did not know that busing decision, but he wants to enact
we had referred to any decisions of the a law so there cannot be a pure mix of
Supreme Court. students in Chicago.
' Mr. DOUGLAS. It is my painful but Mr. DOUGLAS. I should like to quote
necessary duty to? the passage in the proposed amendments
Mr. TALMADGE. To what decision is which pertains to this point.
the Senator from Illinois referring? Mr. TALMADGE. I yield to the Sen-
Could he give me a specific example? ator for that purpose.
Mr. DOUGLAS. The section on trans- Mr. DOUGLAS. I thank the Senator.
portation of pupils by bus. The passage reads:
Provided that nothing herein shall em-
power any court of the United States to
issue any order seeking to achieve a racial
balance in any school by requiring the trans-
portation of pupils or students from one
school to another or one school district to
another in order to achieve such racial bal-
ance, or otherwise enlarge the existing power
of the court to insure compliance with con-
stitutional standards.
All this provides is that it is not proper
to use the 14th amendment?to require
the transportation of public school stu-
dents from one school district to another
in order to achieve a racial balance.
That is precisely what the Supreme Court
held in the recent case. I believe it was
In the Gary case. This would permit
States and localities to carry out this
practice if they so desired.
Mr. TALMADGE. And Congress, if
it so desired, by legislation.
Mr. DOUGLAS. We explicitly say
that this is not our purpose. We would
leave it up to the localities and the States
for action. What we are trying to do is
to have a minimum of Federal action
and maximum of local action. But not
to permit localities to violate the basic
constitutional protections.
Mr. TALMADGE. That is what the
Senator from Georgia desires. There is
no difference between us in that respect,
except that the Senator from Illinois
wants to mix them in Georgia and segre-
gate them in Illinois.
Mr. DOUGLAS. My friends from the
South have never accepted the results
of the Civil War. They have never ac-
cepted the 14th and 15th amendments
to the Constitution as being part of our
organic law.
Mr. TALMADGE. I have forgotten
the Civil War. I hope the Senator from
Illinois has forgotten it also. Sometimes
I doubt it, because he fights it over and
over again on the floor of the Senate,
nearly every day.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I do not mean this to
be a personal characterization of the
Senator from Georgia. I simply refer to
the section. As a result of the Civil War,
the Nation decided that it would provide
protection for all citizens against inva-
sions, by the States of creatures of the
States. In my judgment it must also do
so against private persons who exercise
State power. That is the constitutional
basis for our proceeding under title IV.
Public accommodations are something
else again, because they involve the com-
merce clause as well as the 14th amend-
ment.
I am becoming fed up with my dear
friends for implying that we are hypo-
crites. We are not hypocrites. No one
has ever heard from my lips any attack
on the people of the South.
Mr. TALMADGE. I do not say the
Senator from Illinois is a hypocrite. I
have asked him if he would support an
amendment to have a pure mix in the
city of Chicago, and he would not give
me an answer. He has not answered my
question and he will not answer it.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I support the Hauser
proposal. Will the Senator from Georgia
pledge that he will support the Hauser
plan for Atlanta and other cities of the
South?
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'?, 1,9 6 CONGRESSIONAL RECORI) SENAtE
Mr f4LMAflCE f'haVA aSked: the There was no marshal! economic Pro-
SentitOr a'AU-Paticin aSout-'a pure
x In grain of any kind to help us. Our peti-
t-in-lap, the $enator from fllinois will pie almost starved to death. Never in
not aripWer y fltiention",' -Ile has con- the course of human history have a peo-
sistently refused to do it. The Senator pie been so completely subjugated and
fromCiergia, does not kilo* why, but denied every aspect of human charity
he will nOt:_acAnie_ith_e_-!enatb2r- from Eli- and dignity as was the people of the
no gr,_ being a hypocrite for not South.
answering. Notwithstanding that fact, we were re-
:Mr. DOUGLAS. That is not the issue admitted to the Union. We have made
in :the hill._ The Senator from Georgia - our contributions to the Union since that
is trying to brink in extraneotig matters. .
time As the Senator from Louisiana is
TALMADOK. The Senator from aware, southerners have fought valiant-
' IIlinois'broughein the -OVA` Var. t did ly in the war with Spain, in the First
riot do so.- World War, in the Second World War,
Mr. DOUGLAS. The civil War is un- and again in the Korean war. Many
fortunately still with us. Sonietimes-I of them are engaged in Vietnam right
? wonder who won it. ,I sometimes won- now.
der if we should not haVe the Corded- We need not make any apologies for
erate flag flying from
fr the Capitol, when the South when it comes to questions of
t al co
lOOk pit e chairmenships patriotism and loyalty to our country.
iijneethe-_Cpngere- ss7PerhapS- it -W-as not I hope that every Member of the Senate
essr r Lee to take Washington will forget that unfortunate incident
apex. _ which happenedthe Senatoralmos from
Illinois tlO0yearshageo.
..Mr.,TAL1)41ADOt. I deeply regret that Unfortunately,
the Senator, from Illinois does not reiog- will not let a day go by without mention-
njze_tlia?9t, the; War 'IlletWeen ,_the states ing the War Between the States. Ap-
end _ 9 years ago. I hope that the Parently what he wants to have is an-
Senator from Illinol
s one of these days other military occupation of the South.
W yilllienOw_aOd reape kllattliat War ended , The Senator from Louisiana and the
11 $ ars ago, an quit fighting it every Senat,or from Georgia are standing on
day on the floor of the Senate. the floor of the Senate trying to resist
? Mr. DOUGLAS. The war has ended it. I hope the Senator from Illinois will
but trn. NG
the, has just begun. ' desist.
Mr.
at Louisiana. Mr. Presi-- , - I now yield to the Senator from Illinois.
dpot, will the Senator yield?' - - - Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, does
'-:-.-111,?f TAXAMpciB.=_X yleld,t6 theSen- the Senator from Georgia believe that
? aro_ from Louisiana. the very eminent southern columnist,
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I a"Pl the Mr. William S.
White, is an accurate ob-
penat,or if he is aware of the fact Oilat- server of the psychology of the South
When the battleship Illisq6ui?i_. sailed into and the country?
, TooTBALaylviA---Daz
wkyMr. TALMADGE. I should h the say that
, I was t h. pre on that the eminent columnist h
day.,mr.LoN , Sen-
ator from Illinois has referred is a more
_
? accurate observer than the Senator from
, , -0 -54 lAttislann. When the
. int,--- - - - - Illinois.
battesOlp Missouri sailedto Tokyo Bay
DOUGLAS. Does the Senator
to 'accept the surrender of the Japanese, Mr.
know that in his book entitled "The Cita-
a - COnlederate flag was lying from 'the
mainmast. rerhaps the adm. I di del" the southerner, Mr. William S.
Ira, d not w
? XnoW Ei',hout,it,? -HoweieF, it was Indica- White, says that "the Senate is the
:
'Give of 11- f _ e_ AO tox"? Out of their own mouths discern-
alongside ,?93411%:40A tQugyi t South's undying revenge for Appomat-
._ with boys from _all parts of the
country, ratio of jug and ardent southerners say that. I
and even had a
volunteers in the i$eoice, of countryAe- think it is true
,Mr. TALMADGE. I hope that the
than any other section of the Nation. '
Senator from Illinois will not try to emu-
, __? Therefore I atinni,d Me te, pay to the late William Tecumseh Sherman, who
Senator that perhaps, the South is the visited Atlanta on one occasion, and
only part of the country Which may burn down the city again.
liaye inirgiuntarilY become a part of the m, mr. DOUGLAS. There is a question
Natio
u. HoWever, the South is not corn- ---
as to who first set fire to Atlanta. It
pm
laing about it. We have always might have been the Atlantans first, be-
Prove. At
be-
proved t: o_de_f end Oar: great . There fore Sherman ere is quite a dispute
wir.
APPpE. I agree with what on that point.
, the Senator fro41. LOUisIana, has said. ?Mr. TALMADGE. There is-no dispute
What he haa. said is true. The War end. ed in my area of the country.
In 180. The Senator from, Louisiana, Mr. DOUGLAS. Oh, no. You feel
being the' able historian that he is, real- very certain there.
fzes that perhaps, there iiever was such Mr' TALMADGE. I hope the Senator
internepine bitteinesp `pip4 uliha,-Ppiness from Illinois will not try to detract from
as that which was the aftermath of the the great military reputation and the ac-
W1' B
etween the States.t1.1 After the war complishments of William Tecumseh
e outhh atses werer
e gecupied by Sherman. He is given full credit for
Invading arrniep,
Stall oftbia3s, Wrc,K.Olilist,.,-. ,,, --, . , burning down Atlanta, and almost starv-
414,L eu. from of-
fice. ' ilitary governors ' '
? ' were appointed.
The best eitixehs were diaranehiSed.
The worst Citizens Were enfranchised.
Graft and corruption _and disaster were
rampant everywhere for approximately
12 year's.
11377
And e was very successfulin is pur-
pose. He broke the breadbasket of the
South in his march through Georgia.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. DOUGLAS. Have we finished?
Mr. TALMADGE. If the Senator pro-
pounds another question, I shall be glad
to answer it. The Senator from Loui-
siana was on his feet asking that I yield
to him. I now yield to the Senator from
Louisiana.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Not all
southerners have to apologize. And not
all southerners should be punished be-
cause the South fought the Civil War.
One of this Senator's forebears went to
the convention and voted against seced-
ing from the Union. My father told me
that my great-grandfather not only said
that we should refuse to fight, and should
free the slaves, but when the sheriff came
after him, he hid under the logs in the
woodshed and would not have anything
to do with it.
I am frank to say that we could do
much more for the Negroes if certain
people would quit stirring the resentment
of the whites against the Negroes, and
of the Negroes against the whites. It
sets back the cause of the colored man.
During the time that my uncle was
Governor of Louisiana, the colored regis-
trations increased by 1,000 percent. But
that was prior to the Supreme Court
decision in the Brown case, and prior
to the civil rights action that was going
to get them the right to vote. All of
the Federal compulsion has so stirred
resentment among whites that now in
every parish there are people organized
against it. If it were not for the resent-
ment which has been aroused by the
interference of the outsiders, and the
strong arm of the Federal Government
trying to make people do things that
they resent, the Negro registration would
have probably increased by 70 or 80 per-
cent over what it is.
Mr. TALMADGE. I agree completely
with the words of wisdom of the Senator
from Louisiana. Of course, as the Sena-
tors knows, he shares the view that most
of us in the Senate have, and certainly
the Senator from Georgia, that everyone
is entitled to the respect which his merit,
his character, and individual attain-
ments entitle him to receive.
Every man ought to be treated in ac-
cordance with that fact, and that is the
policy and the position of the Senator
from Georgia. He knows many white
people with whom he does not like to
associate. He knows many Negroes that
he does not like to associate with. There
are probably some white people and Ne-
groes who would not want to associate
with the Senator from Georgia. That is
their privilege. And I would defend
their right to act accordingly. But man's
relation to his fellow man is largely a
matter of the heart, the mind, and the
conscience. When Senators think they
mg our people to death. Sherman him- can pass coercive, jail-sentence, Federal
self said, "War is hell." And I believe legislation and say to a little barber, "You
him,? ? , must shave this man, whether you like
Mr. DOUGLAS. He believed in total it or not; you must shine his shoes,
war. .? whether you like it or not; you must live
Mr. TALMADGE. He was one of the in a boarding house with him whether
first generals who practiced total war, you like it or not; you must eat in an
? . :
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11378 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
.eating place with him whether you like
to or not," all such coercion as this can
do is lead to discord, friction, and ill will.
I now yield to the Senator from Minois.
Mr. DOUGLAS. The Senator from
Georgia is always very courteous.
Mr. TALMADGE. I thank the Sena-
tor. The feeling is mutual. I have had
the privilege of serving with the Senator
from Illinois on the Committee on Fi-
nance. I have never known a man whom
I have enjoyed associating with to a
greater degree than the able and distin-
guished Senator from Illinois.
Mr. DOUGLAS. I thank the Senator.
I want to rise to a matter of personal
privilege concerning the Senator from
Virginia [Mr. ROBERTSON].
Mr. TALMADGE. Mr. President, I
shall be delighted to yield if the Senator
from Illinois desires me to do so. Mr.
President, I ask unanimous consent that
I may yield to the Senator from Illinois
for a personal statement, without it af-
fecting my rights to the floor in any way
whatsoever, and without my subsequent
remarks constituting a second speech.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
(Mr. DOUGLAS made a personal state-
ment, which will be found elsewhere,
under an appropriate heading.)
Mr. TALMADGE. I return to my dis-
cussion of the history of jury trials in
England:
2, Fox himself was responsible for the we-
tension of the scope of jury trials in libel
cases. Since the libel laws represented the
principal restrictions upon freedom of speech
In England, it had been customary for the
judge In a libel case to decide himself wheth-
er a given publication was a libel and leave to
the jury only the question of whether the
accused had actually been responsible for its
publication. Juries resented their inability
to answer what usually was the most con-
troversial question of the case, and in the
case of the Dean of St. Asaph the jurors de-
liberately declared a man innocent of publi-
cation simply because they did not consider
the material libelous. In 1792 Fox was re-
sponsible for a new libel law which extended
the power of juries to decide the whole ques-
tion, as to law as well as fact. In principle,
it was a victory for democracy and trial by
jury, although in practice the juries tended
to be less tolerant in their interpretations of
libel than the judges had been.
IL TRIAL BY JURY IN MODERN ENGLAND
Since the beginning of the 19th century,
there has been no threat to the right of trial
by jury in criminal cases. The grand or in-
dicting jury was eliminated in some instances
by the 1873 Judicature Act and almost entire-
ly abolished by the 1933 Administration of
Justice Act. In civil cases Jury trial was no
longer considered necessary as a rule, so that
today less than 10 percent of civil cases in
England are tried by jury. These changes,
which came about during the 19th and 20th
century judicial reforms, were made in the
interests of economy, efficiency, and equity
for all. On the whole, they have accom-
plished their purpose and have not been
criticized. But the growth of so-called ad-
ministrative law, that is, of legal decisions
made by various boards or commissions upon
disputes to which they themselves are a party.
like income tax, community planning, and
education, has led to widespread demands
for a comprehensive administrative code,
with more provision for appeals, and perhaps
even some juries. Although nothing has yet
been done, it is clear that the absence of
jury trials In this ever-inceasing area poses
many threats to property, if not actually to
life and liberty.
Y. TRIAL BY JURY IN colonist AMRIGCA
Although the same conditions on the
whole held in colonial America as in 18th
century England with respect to the admin-
istration of justice and trial by jury, the
attitude of the colonists was from the first
different. Being in no position to fear feudal
exactions or exploitations, the colonists
looked upon the King not as their protector
but rather as himself the potential aggressor
upon their rights. It was in this spirit that
they protested every effort to limit trial by
jury as an act of royal tyranny.
I. In 1696 Parliament had reorganized the
admiralty courts ?0 that they would be bet-
ter able to cope with the flagrant smuggling
in and out of all the colonies which was
the American reaction to the navigation
acts. The admiralty courts, which were not
a part of the traditional common law sys-
tem, did not provide for trial by jury, and
as a result English or English-appointed
judges frequently sentenced colonial mer-
chants and seamen arbitrarily. The more
effective the courts became, the more the
colonists resented them, and the more they
came to insist upon trial by jury as a fun-
damental right.
Another way of putting this is that
the more abusive and tyrannical the Ad-
miralty Courts became, the more men
rieRired the right to live and work in free-
dom. They felt the wrath of the Eng-
lish judges whose primary aim was to
keep them under the heavy thumb of
English rule. Without trial by jury.
Persons accused of crimes against the
Crown were tried powerless and at the
mercy of a single judge who was the
prosecutor, the judge, the jury, and the
one who sentenced the defendant, all at
the same time.
I would point out that in the so-called
civil rights bill which is pending before
the Senate, we have 55 pages, 11 differ-
ent titles affecting every area of human
relations from the cradle to the grave.
The bill purports to regulate every hotel
In America, every motel in America,
every cafe in America, every hamburger
stand in America, every hotdog stand
in America, a high percentage of the
barbershops in America, a high percent-
age of the shoeshine shops in America,
and every place of business that has 25
or more employees.
It would extend the broad Power of
the Government of the United States
into the most intimate of human rela-
tions. The bill would deny the right of
a trial by jury. It would authorize the
Attorney General to tile suits at will
against virtually any citizen in America
in the name of the U.S. Government, at
the expense of the taxpayers. And it
would further authorize the Attorney
General to select the judges before whom
he would prosecute the case. And it
would deny to the defendant the right
of a trial by Jury.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TALMADGE. I yield.
Mr. STENNLS. Mr. President, I am
impressed with the enumeration of the
things that the bill would do. I ask the
Senator if it is not always true through-
out the history of our Government that
once power?ordinarily reposed in the
people or the State?is picked up, so to
speak, by the Federal Government
through the far-reaching operations of
a bill, brought to Washington, made a
Federal function, a bureau is set up, peo-
ple are employed to implement those bu-
reaus, agencies, and activities that they
have all over the Nation, is it not in-
variably true that that power grows and
grows through successive legislative en-
actments, or by custom, and that it feeds
on itself and never is returned to the
people, or to the States? Has that been
true in legislative history?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is so
correct. I do not recall any government,
wherever It may be located, municipal,
State, or Federal, that has ever volun-
tarily relinquished any power that has
ever been delegated to it. That is par-
ticularly true of the Federal Govern-
ment. The Senator knows that Con-
gress has on a number of occasions
passed acts that were supposed to be
temporary in their nature and in their
scope. Those acts have a way of being
extended and extended year after year.
For instance, as the Senator knows, the
so-called excise taxes were imposed dur-
ing the war years to raise money with
which to fight the war and to prevent
inflation. Yet, a high percentage of
those same excise taxes have been re-
newed year after year. They expire on
June 30 this year. Congress will no doubt
have the burden of extending them
again. I am sure that that action will be
recommended.
The Senator knows that several years
ago the so-called Civil Rights Commis-
sion was created. It was said to be purely
temporary in scope. It has been ex-
tended twice, I believe, since that time.
And this bill now, I believe, would make
it permanent, or it started out to make it
permanent.
I am sure the Senator has read, as I
have, several of the fine books written
by Dr. Northport Parkinson, in which he
illustrates the theory of government that
If you create a bureau with two em-
ployees, the two employees will insist
that their powers, their duties, their re-
sponsibilties, and their salaries be in-
creased. What started out to be a bu-
reau with two employees, in the due
course of time will be several thousand
employees.
During the war years, the Senator
from Georgia had the privilege of serv-
ing as flag secretary and aide to the
commandant of naval forces for a time
In New Zealand. We were directly under
Admiral Halsey's command. We re-
ceived a secret dispatch requesting us to
make recommendations as to what per-
sonnel could be released in New Zea-
land for duty in combat areas in forward
stations. By that time, Guadalcanal
had been secured. We were winning
victories at sea almost daily. General
MacArthur was advancing with his arm-
ies in New Guinea. And New Zealand at
that time was truly a remote station.
The principal service that it rendered was
for rest, relief, and recreation for combat
forces in the area, and also for food sup-
plies, and things of that nature for the
forces that were fighting in the Pacific.
The commodore sent for me when he
received that dispatch. Be said, "TAL-
MADGE, I wish you would work on this
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1964
and See what we Can -de out Making
officers_ and men available forforward
duty."', 'the Benator _from Georgia at
- that time -wag an -bfficer- in the Naval
Rennie. Andlie realized thelmportance
of the ao,t-i-f-ii-6.1-lialla-e-eli-'661dried hum
by the conmianding officer.
I worked On it day and night for about
-I _conferred with various de-
/ partinent heads. - I conferred with some
of the: New Zealand authorities. I
-worked_ out a plan where we could ef-
fectively demobilize about 75 or 85 per-
cent of the nayai nnclInillitaty, personnel
in New Zealand: When-t Worked out
the plan, I brought it to the executive
officer toobtain his apProVid.. He studied
it and said, "TALMADGE, that is 'fine."
And he initialed his approval on it and
said, "Take it to the commodore?'
I took it to the commodore. He looked
it over and said be thought it Was all
- right: Biit then he Said; "TAI.MADGE, I
want to: talk With the pliblic relations
officer p,nd.With'theIegal Officer about
this. Hp kept it in his basket Until he
could confer With those: two "individ-
uals. About that time, the senator from
Georgia received his orders to &eine back
for assignment to &di it another sta-
tion. rlis assignment was asthe execu-
tive officer on the attack transport,
APA-91., ?
:After our ship was commissioned and
We returned to the South Pacific, I ran
Into some Of My associates 'with wham
I had Served in Nev 'Zealand. Said to
them, "By the way, whatever happened
? to the dispatch Admiral Halsey sent to
the commodore, about making person-
nel available for forward diitYrr
They said, "Well, after he got through
taliciniv!Tkh:Oe lega. office andtheh"
TIC o e
ns officer, they ''ea eit;
? could no spare anYlperSonnelei in -
_Zealand, and that they'n' eeded-
additiOneawl
P7sorifiel, instead Of Making some they
already had available for forward sta-
tions.a
U. combat areas.""
saRI "What hapPened when
recelY6_41int Word10' '
lie "Shifriiiecl-ab 'Per-
fell Swoop naSn9 folks
.nift'-erth94
-PPII*Jf .sttiCL: ere, in one
forward. siatiodo-signecit:hoern :t.
I refer to thatf:a duty
in
incidentthe
? that unless an ironhand is used
e
in -situations of MS
rilents tend to'grO'
uthorUy Is cernmani teeanuseelY
get good jobs, get promotions,is ac hi;
That particularly
are giVen adminis rat ve charge and
obtain seniority rights and retirement
benefits; and the lust fOr-Offi"Ce arid for
? power' is - Sikh that they COD:thine to
Bern in such capacities and their power
grows -arid grows.
=Thatdevelepmerebears out what Lord
Acton said about the, corruptionwhich
Cones _`froin absolute,_?_pqwer. He, said
"absolute power corrupts absOlutelY..4 I
' think that itrite in eonneotion 'With this
bill, too?that such powerWOuld"corriipt
absolutely.
- ;Mr, thank the Senator
?
f'roniGeorOia. He has even a fine Illus-
tration from practical life.
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- SENATE
I believe he was Governor of Georgia
longer than any other Governor of his
State:
Mr. TALMADGE. I thank the Sena-
tor from Mississippi; but one of the Gov-
ernors of my State served in that posi-
tion longer than I did; Joseph E. Brown
served as Governor of Georgia from 1860
to 1868. That was in the period of the
War Between the States and immediately
thereafter. I do not know whether he
was elected following 1865, or whether he
just obtained the office by appointment
by some occupying Yankee general.
I had the honor to serve as Governor
for some 6 years and 2 months; and I
considered it a great compliment and
honor to serve my people.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator from
Georgia served them very well.
During the time he was Governor of
the great State of Georgia, did the Fed-
eral Government return to his State any
of the power the Federal Government
had taken away from it?
Mr. TALMADGE. No. On the con-
trary, the Federal Government made re-
peated and incessant demands for more
and more power. As a matter of fact,
while I was a member of the Governors'
conference, we established a commission
to study Federal-State relations, with a
view to trying to cede back to the State
governments some of the power the Fed-
eral Government had taken from them,
and particularly to try to outline some
method of taxation whereby the States
and the Federal Government would not
be taxing the same things?because, as
the Senator from Mississippi knows, in
-the income tax field, for example, prior
to our recent tax reduction, the individ-
ual income tax rates under the Federal
law went as high as 92 percent. When
State income taxes were imposed in ad-
dition to the 92-percent tax the Federal
Government imposed, the result was a
virtually impossible situation. In fact,
the Federal Government would milk the
tax cow dry before the State governments
had an opportunity to impose their taxes.
But we were never able to do anything
in that field, because, as the Senator
from Mississippi knows, the expansion
of Federal power is such that it in-
creases year after year.
In the short period of time that I
have served in the Senate?I came here
in 1957?the Federal budget has in-
creased, if my memory serves me cor-
rectly, from approximately $60 billion
a year In 1957 to approximately $100
billion a year at the present time. That
is the way it grows year after year.
But to answer the Senator: If any Of
these provisions were enacted into law,
the only way they could ever be changed
would be by revolution. Of course I
think that if some of these provisions
were written into law, we would well
nigh have a revolution in some of the
areas of our country, because the people_
would be bitterly dthappointed. They
have been told repeatedly that this bill
is a kind of "do good' bill to give every-
one his rights. I aril sure the Senator
from Mississippi agrees with me that
11379
every citizen is entitled to have, and
should have, his constitutional rights.
'Mr. STENNIS. Absolutely.
Mr. TALMADGE. But, as the able
Senator from Mississippi also knows,
they are adequately enforceable in the
courts at the present time, if any are
denied their rights.
This bill would do nothing except
expand Federal power; it would delegate
additional authority to Federal officials,
to permit them to harass and annoy
citizens in every area of their private
life. The bill is not a civil rights bill;
Tit is a bill to regulate the 190 million
Americans.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator from
Georgia has stated the matter very well.
In connection with his statement that
this trend will continue unless it is
stopped by the people, let me recount,
before I ask a question, I wish to do this
to refresh the Senator's recollection in
regard to some of the actions taken by
the people in the last few months, al-
though I am sure the Senator from
Georgia will recall this?that in the
State of Washington two elections were
held with reference to proposed city
ordinances relating to civil rights and
the regulation of the people.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes; I am sure the
Senator from Mississippi is referring to
proposed ordinances of the city of Ta-
coma, Wash., and the city of Seattle,
Wash.
Mr. STENNIS. That is correct. One
of those proposals was defeated by a vote
of 2 to 1; the other was defeated by a
vote of 3 to 1.
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes. The pro-
posed ordinance in Seattle was defeated
by a vote of 2 to 1; and the proposed
ordinance in the city of Tacoma, Wash.,
was defeated by a vote of 3 to 1. They
were in regard to the subject matter of
title II of the pending bill, and only that
title; they did not relate to the subject
matters dealt with in the other 10 titles
of the bill.
Mr. STENNIS. There was also a vote
in the House of Representatives of the
State of Rhode Island; was there not?
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes; the House of
Representatives of the State of Rhode
Island also defeated what would be the
equivalent of title II of this bill.
Mr. STENNIS. The House of Repre-
sentatives of the State of Rhode Island
defeated it by a vote of approximately
2 to 1; did it not?
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes; approximately
2 to 1. I believe the distinguished Sena-
tor from Rhode Island confirmed that
on the floer of the Senate; and it is in
the RECORD.
Mr. STENN1$: There were also two
elections?one in New York and one in
Massachusetts?on the question of bus-
ing children. Such a provision was at
one time included in the bill. ? In the elec-
tions to which I have reference, the trust-
es there who stood against busing the
ehildren from one part of the city to an-
other were reelected by overwhelming
votes; were they not?
Mr. TALMADGE. yes. As I recall,
the lady in Massachusetts who was a
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11380 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
10
member of the school board, and who
vigorously opposed the busing of school-
children, led the ticket in that election.
Mr. STENNIS. Yes.
Of course, we recall, too, the more re-
cent votes taken when the matter of hav-
ing the States have control over these
questions was the sole issue raised by
Governor Wallace, who went a thousand
miles from his home State to an area
where he was a stranger?Wisconsin, an
area far removed from his home State.
In Wisconsin, he was without a political
ally of any kind; and, as the record
shows, he was without a personal friend
there, unless it happened that he had
two or three friends there. Nevertheless,
he received a sizable proportion of the
total vote cast there, to the amazement
of the People of his home State. He
achieved that result in the face of the
severest kind of opposition, both politi-
cal and otherwise; did he not?
Mr. TALMADGE. Yes; I agree with
the Senator from Mississippi.
In my judgement, the 43 percent of the
total vote in Maryland that Governor
Wallace received was cast for him solely
because of a grassroots citizens revolt
against legislation of the type now be-
fore us, and also because of the rabid
conduct of some citizens who were de-
priving other citizens of their rights, by
lying on the streets or lying on the side-
walks, ' and blocking doors, blocking
driveways, and so forth.
Mr. STENNIS. Yes; and that situa-
tion in Maryland, as well as in the other
States in which elections have recently
been held, shows unmistakably that this
stranger, who received such a large vote,
received it because the people of these
States do not like the idea of being regu-
lated and controlled by the Federal Gov-
ernment, instead of by their State gov-
ernments, and do not like the attempts
to have all the power taken from the
States and lodged in bureaucrats in
Washington, D.C.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator from
Mississippi is eminently correct. I am
sure that the Senator from Mississippi is
familiar with the effort to enforce the
prohibition laws. The Senator will re-
call that there was a great moral crusade
throughout the country to stop people
from drinking whiskey. Of course,
drinking whiskey is an evil. I am sure
the Senator from Mississippi will agree
with that.
Mr. STENNIS. Yes.
Mr. TALMADGE. But our experience
has been that it could not be regulated
by law. Notwithstanding that fact,
preachers and many fine citizens insisted
that a national prohibition law be passed.
The 18th amendment was written into
the Constitution of the United States.
I remember that when I was a small boy
down in Telfair County, Ga., we em-
ployed a county policeman to assist the
sheriff in enforcing the prohibition laws.
There was one county policeman who
had shot down nine people whom he had
apprehended making whiskey back in the
remote swamp areas. The method that
he used to enforce the prohibition laws
would be to arm himself with at least
two pistols, at least one rifle, and a sawed
off shotgun. He would find a man mak-
ing illegal whiskey somewhere and he
would draw his rifle and shoot him down
just as if he were hunting deer or other
game.
That was the type of enforcement that
was carried on.
The people rebelled. They demanded
that the 18th amendment be repealed,
which was done in 1933.
My judgment is that if the type of leg-
islation which is proposed is written on
the statute books, the reaction will be far
mare violent than was the reaction to
the 18th amendment, because the pro-
posed legislation does not purport to reg-
ulate merely what a man drinks, but also
where he lives, where he eats, where he
sleeps, where he works, and every other
area of human conduct. The strong arm
of the Federal Government would be
brought in to make decisions that nor-
mally have been left to the private indi-
vidual and each man's good judgment
and good sense.
Mr. STENNIS. In the opinion of the
Senator from Mississippi, it is not known
to the people generally that the bill
would actually empower the Federal
Government, through its agencies, to go
out from Washington and invade the
premises of people. Agents of the Gov-
ernment could even invade the home of a
lady who had as many as six roomers.
The bill would regulate whom she could
take into her house and whom she could
feed. It would regulate whom she could
permit to sleep there. As the Senator has
said, the bill would actually empower all
such actions as the Senator has enu-
merated, would it not?
Mr. TALMADGE. Of course it would.
Mr. STENNIS. It would give the
power to the Attorney General and then
make it his duty to carry out those pro-
visions of the bill.
Mr. TALMADGE. The bill would au-
thorize the Attorney General of the
United States to say to any widow in
America who had a house with six rooms,
some of which she rented to boarders,
whom she shall have sleep in her own
house.
point out to the able Senator from
Mississippi that the third amendment
provides that the Government cannot
even quarter troops in private homes in
time of war without a special act of Con-
gress, and at no time in time of peace.
It is inconceivable to the Senator from
Georgia that our Founding Fathers, who
framed the Constitution, should say that
troops could not be quartered in private
homes, and yet we would now turn that
around and, under the provisions of a
bill which is now brought before the Sen-
ate, authorize the Attorney General to
quarter private citizens in private homes
and jail the widow without the right Of
trial by jury if she refused.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator has not
overstated in the least the purpose of
the bill and the power that would flow
from it. Under the provisions of the bill
as it is now written, an agent of the Gov-
ernment coud enter a little business, a
small factory, or a store, if it had 25 or
more employees, and tell the proprietor
whom he might employ, whom he might
discharge, and even whom he might pro-
mote in operating that private business.
Is that not true?
Mr. TALMADGE. That is true. The
Senator from Mississippi did not cover
it all. The _ agents could assign jobs
within a business. They could determine
whom the employer could hire and pro-
mote. They could determine whom the
employer could assign to various jobs in
the business, and whom he could dis-
charge. The bill would affect every area
of employment in businesses having 25 or
more employees, and it would divest the
employer of his free right to employ
whomever he saw fit to employ, and to
decide who could best assist in the opera-
tion of his business. It would deprive the
prospective employee of the right to
choose his own associates and decide
where he wanted to work. It would deny
the rights of labor unions to make col-
lective bargaining agreements and to
have their own business agent fill jobs
when vacancies arose.
Imagine a situation involving a small
business in which 25 people might be
employed. Suppose a vacancy arose in
that business and five people applied for
the job. Suppose, further, that one of
the applicants was Chinese, another was
Japanese, still another was a Baptist,
one a Jew and one a Negro. One of those
people would have to be employed. If
the manager of such a business employed
one of them, he would be letting himself
in for a lawsuit brought by any of the
other four, because everyone of them
would have a right to contend that he
had been discriminated against under the
terms of the bill. Such action would au-
thorize the Attorney General to file suit
against the proprietor, and the business-
man could be put in jail without the right
of a jury trial for discriminating against
someone. One hundred mindreaders
would be required to determine whether
or not the employer had discriminated
against anyone, because no one but the
man who hired the successful applicant
would know what his motivation was in
employing any particular individual.
Mr. STENNIS. And in all of that proc-
ess, what the owner of the business might
think was best for his business?
Mr. TALMADGE. He would not have
anything to do with it.
Mr. STENNIS. He would be lost in the
shuffle.
Mr. TALMADGE. The Government
would take charge. The owner of the
business, the employer, would be merely
a bystander, hoping that he would not be
run over by the Government in the proc-
ess.
Mr. STENNIS. Before the Senator
concludes his speech, since he is the au-
thor of the pending amendment, which
would guarantee the right of trial by
jury to anyone who might be charged
with criminal contempt in connection
with the enforcement of the proposed
legislation, I wish to ask him one partic-
ular question with reference to his
amendment. The argument is often
made against the Senator's amendment
that the court must have ample power
to require obedience to its writs, its sum-
monses, its mandates, and its orders.
Did not the Senator, amply provide full
protection to every court under all those
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.196.4 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ?SENATE 11381
circumstances when he, wrote into his
aniendment the- follawhIg language
:which I shall read in order ?11) make the
point clear in the REcoap and .also to call
it to the, attention of the Senate? I. read
from page_ 3 of the Senator's amendment
_ No. 513, beginning at 17:
;This iection'sball not apply to contempts
committed hI the presence of the court, or
so near thereto as to obstruct the_atiministra-
thin of justice, nor to the misbehavior, mis-
conduct, or disnheiAielicP o a.U. 9fflor of
the court in respect tO Wirth, orders, or pro-
cess a the 0xt, ,
-Nor sh1i 'anything herein or in any other
provision Oi law be construed to deprive
courts of their by civil contempt pro-
needings,_ without a jury, to secure compli-
ance With or, to prevent obstruction of, as
distinguished -"Forn. punishment for viola-
ons o!, nny u writ, in?Odess, Ot? ef,ru e,
decree, or command of the court in accord-
ance Wit 4 the PreVailing usages"of law and
, ,
equity, Including the power of detention.
,
, .
That Is the Senator's language. Will
the Senator explain that provision of his
amendment in his own fine, and clear Way
so that Senators may know what it is
_and_ what the intentions of_ the Senator
were, and so that the provisions 111.:14,y be
nfimistalably and clearly known so that
-there can be no question about thein?
I understand that is settled law. Will the
Senator answer-that inquiry?
-
Mr. TALN14_12P, Thp Sena from
MississiPPi is ellitrientlY correct. ITIP is a
cosponsor of the amendment, and was a
distinguished jurist before he came to
'the U.S. Senate, as well as a distinguished
'lawyer. So he is completely aware of
-the powers of courts of equity. There is
a distinction between civil contempt and
criminal contempt. _
When a judge orders something to be
done, if the individual dOes_not carry out
his order,, it is within the power of the
court to imprison him or take such action
as is necessary to compel the defendant
to comply with the order of the court.
That is known as Clyi,1 991*-111P.t.,
"Me most comp-ion practice, of course,
arises in situations in which a judge
orders the defendant imprisoned until
he carries Out the order of the judge.
The defendant would remain in prison
until he executed the order of the court.
When he ,e x e cute d the order Pf the, Mixt,
he would be released from prison, a free
man. Heco,ulc be detained in jail as
long as tPe judge thoug1-4 necessary to
,insnre _compliance with his particular
Order.
-Criminal contempt is entirely different.
_contempt is a judge-ordained,
Judge-made, judge-prosecuted, and
Judge-exeouted ernne. occurz when a
Judge hauls a man up before him and
says, "You disobeyed rny_court order, I
0..,m going_ to put you in jail for 2 years."
He is _put in prison. 'h judge can im-
pose such sentence as he sees fit, so long
AS it does, not yialatc,Ibe,eightn amend-
whictl_Prol-44413, eriletand unusual
451.1.11ish.111,ept.
As theable Senator knows, the Consti-
_
tution of, the UDited .8tfitS$ guarantees
the,rightof trial by jury in four different
places for_all crimes, The language does
not read "some crimes," or "big crimes,"
or 4144rpaetliale _crimes," It says "all
crimes." ,Critninal ,contenikt, is a crime
defined by a judge to be a crime. A
judge can put a man in jail for criminal
contempt. The prisoner can have a
prison record for the remainder of his
life. A judge can /mpose a line. He can
dispossess a defendant of /As worldly
goods.
In my judgment, it is within the mean-
ing of the Constitution that, if a person
can be tried for a crime, he should have
the right of trial by jury. The Senate,
by a vote of 51 to 42 in 1957, sustained
that same amendment, paragraph for
paragraph, line for line, word for word.
The late President John F. Kennedy
was one of its sponsors. Our distin-
guished majority leader [Mr. MANS-
FIELD], who now sits in the chair in front
of the distinguished Senator from Mis-
sissippi, was one of the sponsors. The
then majority leader of the Senate, Lyn-
don B. Johnson, now President of the
United States, vigorously supported it
and made the concluding speech for it.
it was good law then. It was good
sense then. It is good law now. It is
good sense now. I hope the Senate will
uphold the greatest civil liberty mankind
has ever known, which is the right of
trial by a jury of one's peers.
It is a travesty indeed that the Senate
,should even be considering a so-called
zivil rights bill which in five different
.titles would deny the people the right of
trial by jury. It is unthinkable to the
Senator from Georgia that in this en-
lightened day, we should turn the clock
back to star chamber trials, trial by in-
quisition and torture, as once practiced
in England, as the Senator from Georgia
has said this afternoon.
,Mr. STENNIS. Would this bill not
deny the greatest civil right that has de-
veloped under our system, namely, the
right of trial by jury in criminal cases?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is en-
tirely correct. As the great Winston
Churchill said, the right of trial by jury
is the difference between freedom and
slavery. And it is.
? Mr. STENNIS. The Senator's amend-
.ment would not restrict the court in any
way in its power to demand the carry-
ing out of its commands and orders and
the power to keep a man in jail until
he obeys. No jury trial is involved in
such cases, and the power of the court
is plenary, Is that correct?
Mr. TALMADGE. The Senator is en-
tirely correct.
,Mr. STENNIS. I thank the Senator
.for yielding. He is making a fine pres-
entation.
Mr. TALMADGE. I thank the Sen-
ator for his penetrating questions, which
will shed light on the issue before the
Senate at the present time.
Mr. President, I have attempted this
afternoon to trace some of the history of
the right of trial by jury.
Freedom did not blossom overnight.
Its growth has been a long and tortuous
struggle. I have recited this afternoon
some of the problems the people had in
England, leading up to the Magna
Carta, and to some of the problems that
led to the Declaration of Independence
and the Constitution of the United
States.
After the struggle of thousands of years
to obtain liberty, I hope the Senate will
not now say that the need for liberty has
passed; that we are about to vest all the
power in a Federal judge, appointed for
life, to say that he does not need a jury,
that he knows best, that he and the At-
torney General can handle all our prob-
lems. I hope it will not be said, "Let
us strike down Magna Carta. Let us
strike down Thomas Jefferson's Declara-
tion of Independence. Let us strike .
down the Constitution of the United
States. Let us now vest this power in
a Federal judge, appointed for life. He
and a wise Attorney General can handle
the problems of the people better than
all the great leaders in human history,
who sacrificed their nations and the blood
of patriots for hundreds of years to
achieve the greatest human right that
of
mankind has ever achieved?the right
trial by jury."
THE CIVIL RIGHTS BILL AND
SOUTH DAKOTA
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. President, con-
gressional mail is sometimes a valuable
indication of the depth of feeling on na-
tional issues of the people we represent
In the Congress.
No issue in recent years has called
forth the volume of mail that now de-
scends on Washington both praising
and condemning the civil rights bill.
I would not claim to speak for other
States, but the mail from South Dakota
has been running 21/2 to 1 in favor of
the bill. Furthermore, the proportion
of favorable mail has been increasing
steadily in recent weeks.
Considering the natural tendency of
people to write when they oppose
a measure and remain silent when they
are in favor, I consider this an over-
whelming endorsement of the civil
rights bill by the people of my State.
Those who favor the bill seem to be
motivated primarily by religious or
moral conviction.
Those who fear the consequences of
passage of the civil rights bill very often
are misinformed about the contents of
the bill. They have often been misled by
organized propaganda efforts. Through
newspaper advertisements and circulars
the opponents of the bill have created a
picture of a monstrous Federal power
eagerly awaiting the chance to swoop
down on the hapless citizen and snatch
away his rights.
As a matter of fact, the civil rights bill
now before the Senate would have very
little impact in South Dakota, for two
very good reasons:
First. The number of Negroes in
South Dakota is small. Discrimination
against our Indian minority has long
since been widely condemned and State
action taken to eliminate its remnants.
Second. South Dakota already has a
law on the books covering the most sen-
sitive portion of the proposed civil rights
bill?the right of all persons, regardless
of race, to free access to public accommo-
dation. The South Dakota law is far
more sweeping than the bill before Con-
gress and provides much stiffer penalties
for violations. The South Dakota law
has not brought disaster to the State?
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11382 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE May 22
-31, ?
indeed, I would venture to guess that
most people in the State are totally un-
aware of its existence. Neither would
the civil rights bill now before Congress
create any serious difficulty.
? Chapter 58 of the 1963 Sessions Laws
of South Dakota states:
No person shall be excluded on account of
race, color, religion, or national origin from
full and equal enjoyment of any accommo-
dation, advantage, or privilege furnished by
public conveyances, theaters, or other pub-
lic places of amusement, or by hotels, mo-
tels, barbershops, saloons, restaurants, or
other places of refreshment, entertainment,
or accommodation.
The South Dakota law covers many
places that are excluded from coverage
under the Federal bill, such as barber-
shops, bowling alleys, and small motels.
Moreover, while the Federal bill provides
only civil remedies in the form of in-
junctive relief, the South Dakota statute
is enforcible by criminal sanctions, with
fines up to $200.
I would like to go through the pro-
posed Federal civil rights bill title by
title to demonstrate the constructive and
restrained character of the legislation,
and to quiet the unjustified fears held
by some people in my State and across
the Nation:
Title I of the Federal bill deals with
voting rights and eliminates the oppor-
tunities that now exist in some States
for discrimination in voting. South Da-
kota has no literacy test for voting and
in fact there has never been any indica-
tion of discriminatory voting practices
in the State. Therefore, title I would
have no impact in South Dakota.
Title II would prevent discrimination
In certain places of public accommoda-
tion. Since South Dakota already has
a law far broader than the proposed Fed-
eral statute, and since the South Dakota
law would take precedence in all cases,
title II would not have any effect in
South Dakota.
Title III provides new tools by which
the Attorney General can prevent dis-
criminatory treatment at facilities owned
by State and local governments, such as
public parks, libraries, and municipal golf
courses. Since there are no known in-
stances in South Dakota in which use of
publicly owned or operated facilities has
been denied because of race, color, or re-
ligion, title III would have no meaning-
ful application in our State.
Title IV provides new tools for elim-
inating unconstitutional segregation in
veterans' pensions, FHA or VA mortgage
insurance or guarantee programs. or
Federal insurance of bank and savings t
and loan deposits. Since there Is no c
known discrimination in federally as-
sisted programs in South Dakota, title
VI would have no effect in South Dakota. t
Title VH seeks to eliminate discrim-
ination in employment because of race or
color. It would create a Federal Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission
with power only to seek voluntary com-
pliance with its orders. Court suits
could be filed only after voluntary efforts
failed. The Federal Civil Rights Com-
mission has found virtually no instances
of employment discrimination against
Negroes in South Dakota. It has found
evidence of some discrimination against
Indians. but the State commission on
Indian affairs has been working on this
problem for some time. Since South
Dakota is already taking action to elim-
inate what little employment discrimina-
tion exists in the State, title VII will have
very little practical effect in South Da-
kota.
Titles VIII, DK, X, and XI of the civil
rights bill are procedural only. They re-
late to the compiling of statistics on vot-
ing registration, to the removal of civil
rights cases from State to Federal courts,
to the establishing of a Community Rela-
tions Service, to help solve racial dis-
putes on a voluntary basis, and to the
express provision that State laws shall
take precedence when they cover a par-
ticular situation.
This is all there is to the civil rights
bill. The horrendous powers claimed for
It by its opponents simply do not exist.
The bill does not affect homes or
apartments or small boarding houses.
The bill does not take away anyone's
right to jury trial. To the extent it deals
with jury trial at all, the bill gives a right
to jury trial where it would not other-
wise exist.
The bill does not tell businessmen that
they must serve, or hire or fire any par-
ticular individual: retailers remain
wholly free to refuse to serve the drunk,
the disorderly, the unkempt, and so
forth, and employers remain wholly free
to hire, fire, and promote on the basis of
ability and qualifications. All that is
-prohibited is discrimination on grounds
of race, religion, or national origin.
The bill does not cover all retailers. It
applies only to certain designated
places?hotels, motels, restaurants,
lunch counters, gasoline stations, movie
The bill does not give the Attorney
General any unusual powers; he is au-
horized merely to sue in the Federal
cants to enforce constitutional and
other basic rights.
The bill does not give great powers to
he Federal Government?in every in-
stance, first reliance is placed on State
and local authorities to deal with illegal
discriminatory practices.
In short, all the bill actually does do,
even in areas in which discrimination is
most prevalent, is to try to assure for all
of our citizens the rights and opportuni-
ties which most of us take for granted.
Why is this legislation necessary? Be-
cause in this country we believe that
every man is entitled to the same oppor-
tunities, the same rights, and the same
privileges that are accorded each of his
fellow Americans. For many Negro citi-
zens today this is not the case. It is still
true that a Negro cannot always choose
his hotel and restaurant the way a white
person can, he cannot always go to the
church he would like to attend, or send
his children to the schools he would like
to see them attend, or live where he
would like to live, or get a job when he
is qualified for that job. White persons
have these rights, and unless we grant
them to our Negro citizens also, this Na-
tion cannot in good conscience call itself
free and democratic,
In South Dakota, thanks to the good
will of the vast majority of its citizens,
instances of discrimination are rare.
Some problems still exist regarding our
Indian citizens, but steps are being taken,
with the overwhelming support of South
Dakotans. to solve them.
The civil rights law will not be the
final answer to problems in this country.
The treatment of our fellow citizens is
primarily a moral question, and years of
education and soul searching remain be-
fore this Nation is truly a land of oppor-
tunity for all, regardless of race. But the
passage of this law will give us new tools
with which to pursue our goal of equal
dignity for all men. We have delayed too
long already. Let us delay no longer.
public schools. Since there is no uncon- theaters, concert, halls, and the like?all
stitutional segregation in South Dakota public commercial establishments which
schools, title IV would not be relevant are established to serve, and invite the
In South Dakota. patronage of, the general public.
Title V would extend the life of the The bill does not cover private clubs,
Federal Civil Rights Commission for an- professions, or service establishments.
other 4 years. This Commission has no The practice of doctors, lawyers, and
enforcement powers but is simply an in- realtors is not affeced by the bill.
formation-gathering organization. Title The bill does not create any hiring
V will therefore have no specific applica- quotas,
tion within South Dakota. The bill does not affect union seniority.
Title VI wculd withhold Federal funds The bill does not require the firing of
from programs which are segregated. whites in order to hire Negroes.
Agricultural subsidies and other farm The bill does not affect social security
benefits would not be subject to tertnina- or veterans' pensions or bank deposit in-
tion because of any discriminatory em- suranee.
ployment practices by farmers. Neither The bill does not permit massive or
would the law affect social security or wholesale cutoffs of Federal assistance.
VISIT TO THE SENATE BY THE
MELLO-MACS OF PORTLAND,
OREG.
Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, today the
Oregon delegation of Congress is being
visited by a group of wonderful song-
stem from Portland, Oreg., known as the
Mello-Macs. It is a wonderful chorus
from the Multnomah Athletic Club un-
der the direction and leadership of one
of our outstanding song directors in the
Northwest, Bruce Kelly. During the
noon period this group of 60 lovely wom-
en singers presented a program at the
rotunda of the Old Senate Office Build-
ing. I wish to say in behalf of the Ore-
gon delegation that we have always been
very proud of our State, but today the
Mello-Macs made us boastfully proud,
for they presented a concert that was
enjoyed by all of those who were fortu-
nate enough to be privileged to hear it.
Mr. President, they sang yesterday and
the day before at the World's Fair.
They also sang at the State Depart-
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