SECOND PART OF AL-QADHDHAFI ITALIAN TV INTERVIEW

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400410034-3
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 30, 2012
• Sequence Number: 34
• Publication Date: April 15, 1986
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

/ / a . I I / I % ~Q Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/30: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400410034-3 ~
V.17Apr86 Q9
[Marshall) And at what level has this mutiny been taking place?
[Al-Bakkush] On all levels. It is not organized. As I told you, it
is spontaneous: So, it is on all levels-from soldiers to officers of
all ranks [words indistinct] but it indicates that this is the
beginning of the end of this bloody system.
[Marshall) (?Isn't it) wishful thinking, perhaps, on your part, Mr
AI-Bakkush?
[Al-Bakkush] No, it is not because I am telling you that I
wouldn't expect the system to be overthrow immediately or in a
month, but the seeds have been there all the time and the raid
made the people feel that he is leading them to trouble and
disaster out of which they will gain nothing. So, that will cause
a lot of trouble in the near future. It is not wishful thinking, it is
just a cool analysis.
[Marshall] And does your own organization intend to exploit the
situation?
[Al-Bakkush] Oh yes, of course, but we don't pretend that we are
capable of overthrowing the system. [end recording]
Second Part of Al-Qadhdhafi Italian TV Interview
MN171155 Rome ANSA in Italian 1311 GMT 15 Apr 86
[Second part of report on interview with Libyan leader Mu'am-
mar Al-Qadhdafi by Italian television journalist Enzo Biagi in
Tripoli on 14 April]
[Text] "Colonel, are you afraid that the Americans will attack
from one moment to the next?"
"Logically and politically, I absolutely do not think that there is
any reason for this...and obviously there is no problem between
Libya and the United States."
"They get along perfectly?"
"No. It is not that the two countries agree on international
politics; what I am saying is that there is no problem between
Libya and the United States."
The interview between Enzo Biagi and Col Al-Qadhdafi, which
will air this evening on "Spot" [Italian state television current
affairs program], opened with this exchange. The issues proposed
by Biagi to the Libyan colonel included the following, among
others: the possibility of a Libyan attack on the cities of southern
Europe ("We have to strike the same objectives from which the.
bases stem, from which the attacks take off," answered Al-
Qadhdafi); the possibility of international controls on Libyan
territory to certify that there are no terrorist bases (Al-
Qadhdafi's conditions for such controls are that "America
declare before the world that it is a terrorist nation"); and Libyan
responsibility for the recent terrorist attacks. Other issues raised.
in the interview were: possible Soviet military support for Libya;
a possible Reagan-Al-Qadhdafi meeting; the existence of Israel;
the relationship between Libya and Fiat; the arrest of the bishop
of Tripoli. Biagi also asked Al-Qadhdafi some questions about
his way of life and his cultural preferences.
Biagi's interview with Al-Qadhdafi continues in this fashion:
Biagi: "But if America attacks, do you confirm that you will
retaliate by targeting the cities of southern Europe?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "Since the attack against Libya will come from
southern Europe, it will be an attack against Libyan cities,
Libyan roads, and Libyan streets... against Libyan roads and our
children. Thus, following the principle of reciprocal treatment,
we have to strike against the same objectives from which the
bases stem, from which the attacks depart. Perhaps we will be
forced (to do this) but, if there is a possibility of avoiding such an
event, we will certainly not hesitate to pursue this. We like the
Italian people, the Spanish people, the Greek people; they are
friends."
Biagi: "Colonel, are you willing to submit your territory to
international controls, so that one can certify that there are no
training camps?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "We are certain in any case that training camps
do not exist in our country, but if we could, for example, offer
such a possibility to a foreign committee to undertake such
controls... what results could we draw from this? We have a
condition, after the committee ascertains such conditions, and
that is that America declare before the world that it is a terrorist
nation, has carried out official terrorism against a country,
against a state; the entire American policy is mistaken and
aggressive. The Arabs are right, Europe is right, and Libya is
innocent.
1
If America were to accept this after the certification, we will
accept ... after which we would see in America the formation of
another committee to ascertain from which side, from which
source such allegations, such accusations stemmed. (We would
also) see investigations in the American secret services, in the
American Congress, and in the Israeli Muassasat, and in the
Zionist organizations in the United States."
Biagi: "The Americans hold you responsible for recent terrorist
attacks such as the Athens [as transmitted] aircraft and the
Berlin discoteque."
AI-Qadhdafi: "We challenge them to offer us proof. In fact, we
have other evidence."
Biagi: "In case of an attack against the cities of southern Europe,
what fate would you reserve for Italy?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "The Sixth Fleet departs from southern Italy, from
the southern part of Italy. Prevent the Sixth Fleet from carrying
out aggression; evacuate American bases."
Biagi: "Do you count on Soviet support?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "We count on the support of the whole world,
because America is on the wrong side, and the whole world is
against it."
S-MIE4 - fG- tp "iL Y
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Biagi: "Many people hope to see a meeting between you and
Reagan. What would you say to him?"
go back through all of history again ... Spain or Naples or Sicily
do not seem to me your natural place of residence."
Al-Qadhdafi: "I believe that such decisions (sic) are being circu-
lated by Reagan. I don't believe it is possible to conduct a
dialogue with a mentality such as Reagan's. I believe that his
powers of reasoning are not sane, because the demonstration of
his arrogance in the Mediterranean and in the world show that
he does not possess the power of reasoning. With his attitude it
seems that he is striking at the Warsaw Pact and not Libya. I say
seriously that if he were presented to a psychiatrist, it would
certainly be ascertained that he is lacking something."
Biagi: "In the days after the first attack, you launched an appeal
to your people to strike Americans anywhere. Who are those who
would go into action?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "With us (are) all the revolutionary forces in the
world. We are leading an international revolution for freedom,
peace, and progress, to eliminate imperialism, racism, and all
reasons for war. We hope to see a world that is green, not black.
Our revolution is a revolution of liberty and peace. And we will
fight against enemies of liberty and peace."
Biagi: "Is there terrorism which you approve of and terrorism
which you condemn?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "We are against terrorism. We condemn terrorism
and we are against airplane hijacking and kidnapping of inno-
cents. But we support the just cause of all the peoples of the
world."
Biagi: "Could you give us evidence of the three American planes
which you say you shot down [presumably during the Gulf of
.Sidra confrontation]?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "Yes. They are there. We have such evidence.
Speaking of a meeting with Reagan, I refuse and absolutely
reject a meeting with Reagan and I will not meet him and I will
not negotiate with America because Reagan is crazy and I cannot
negotiate with a crazy man."
Biagi: "Why do you maintain the necessity of eliminating
Isreal?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "We are determined (to see) the freedom of the
Palestinian people and their return to their own land."
Al-Qadhdafi: "We want the Palestinian people to return to
Palestinian land. And we are not responsible for those who
invaded this land because you moved us out, you sent us away
from Spain after 800 years, because you evacuated us from Sicily
after 300 years....
Al-Qadhdafi: "Neither is Palestine the natural place for the Jews
who come from Germany, Italy, and Spain."
Al-Qadhdafi: "We accept the Jews who were there, but we refuse
those who came from overseas. This is an invasion and the world
should understand. Why, for instance, did you leave Libya?
Because it was an invasion and you (Italians), for example, did
not say that the Libyans did not have the right to become free.
The Jews, likewise, must go back to the overseas countries from
which they came; otherwise, violence will not end."
Al-Qadhdafi: "This means that Europe oppresses the Jews and
we, in this case, line up on the side of the Jews."
Al-Qadhdafi: "I am on the side of the Jews if they are oppressed,
but I am against the invaders who have occupied Palestine."
Biagi: "Oil prices are going down, Libya's arms are increasing.
Is this good business?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "This is propaganda. We must talk about the
destruction of the world from a program of nuclear arms, of "star
wars"; these are technical facts.... To talk about the arms of a
small country, of a small state, of a small people is really
ridiculous. We must principally emphasize the subject of nuclear
arms, of "star wars", of nuclear missiles installed in Europe. It
is really ridiculous for the world to talk about a small country
with arms. Our true arms are not our ships or our heavy arms,
but most of all our right to live free on this earth."
Biagi: "It has been said that Libya would get out of Fiat. Is this
true?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "This is not true. In fact, we are encouraging
increased investment in Europe. Indeed, if it is possible to
increase our shares ... to have more shares in Fiat..."
Biagi: "Have you ever been the target of a terrorist attempt,
colonel?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "Not directly, but in America much truth has been
disclosed about these facts; that there have been attempts to
poison me, to kill me with poison on the orders of the American
administration; and there has even been an inquiry by the Amer-
ican Congress about these things. And the world has not said that
such and such an act is a terrorist act, but they say that terrorism
is our ... we have not said that it is a justification for striking
America."
Biagi: "Today the arrest of the bishop of Tripoli and of other
priests was announced. Do you know anything about this?"
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40 49
Al-Qadhdafi: "i also heard it on the radio. And today I asked for
information and' they told me that there is a matter of espionage,
that there is clear evidence. I personally asked that the bishop be
released so that the evidence can be studied because an inquest
is necessary and the inquest must take place in order for us to
arrive at a verdict of innocence or guilt."
Biagi: "How do you spend your day, colonel; what is a typical
day like for you?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "Normal, simple ... I practice a little sport."
Biagi: "What sport do you practice?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "I read, ride horseback, play a little soccer."
Biagi: "What do you read?"
AI-Qadhdafi: "History especially." Biagi: "Which authors do
you prefer?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "Authors from all over the world."
Biagi: "Who is the historical character you like the most?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "In America, George Washington, Lincoln; in
Italy, Cavour, Garibaldi, Mazzini; in China, Sun Yat Sen."
Biagi: "Is there anything you would like to say outside the scope
of my questions?"
Al-Qadhdafi: "In India ... Gandhi ... some notes and com-
mentaries, because I am beginning to have a lot of suspicions that
agencies are spying on Libya in the United States.... They would
like to plot ... the blood of the Libyans and Americans.... It seems
almost like a predominant spirit of a crusade."
Al-Qadhdafi: "Yes, the spirit of a crusade. And I believe that the
American Sixth Fleet represents the tenth crusade. Because
there are not true, real causes of a conflict ... with America which
calls for war.... Therefore, there exist religious, ideological, and
ethnic reasons ... and I see in this type of initiative a racial aspect.
The world has to understand that we will not give up the
Palestinian cause ... and if the cause of violence in the world is
the Palestinian cause ... therefore the world should look for
solutions to such questions."
Q I I NORTH AFRICA
behavior do not encourage us to indulge in terrorism. It prevents
us from performing such actions."
Biagi: "Does the colonel remember when Italy handed back four
terrorists?"
Biagi: "Four Libyan terrorists found at Fiumicino and who were
brought back by our services on a flight...."
Biagi: "They were in Italy; They were found in Italy."
Al-Qadhdafi: "In any case, you have to cooperate to. prevent ...
terrorism ... and I encourage such actions, but I can absolutely
not describe Palestinian actions as terrorist actions. The Palestin-
ians today find themselves against the whole world and the world
has sided with the Israelis. Therefore, they (the Palestinians) find
themselves forced to combat and fight this world which is against
them. They spread their violence everywhere and this is the whole
world's responsibility and not only Libya's. A people which has
lived for 40 years in tents, evicted from its own territory ... they
believe they have the right to fight for their right to live. And
then (there are) sporadic individual episodes ... nations are not
responsible for these acts. A few months ago in Germany, some
people attacked a military base and killed some Americans. Why
didn't America attack Germany, for example, in this case?
"So many Americans have been killed," continued Al-Qadhdafi,
"everywhere in the world. Libya is not responsible for this wave
of hate against America which today is predominant. We are well
disposed toward an international conference to discuss this issue,
available ... and we are the nation which is today the victim of
terrorism, and America could use the atomic bomb and destroy
and annihilate Libya, but Libya will not give in, will not give up
the Palestinian cause and we will never give up the fight for unity
and if we are attacked, we will fight with fury and will fight
everywhere in the world ... because (?he) is crazy and is heading
for a catastrophe and because I know that Zionism is dragging
America to a catastrophe ... and America has to take sides today
with the Palestinian people and give up Israel. I say once again
and reconfirm our love for the European people and especially
the Italian people, but we do not want to be ... to find ourselves
forced to take positions against them when American bases are
used, American bases in Italy are used against us.
"In fact," continues Al-Qadhdafi, "using the instrument of force
... can spread violence in the world. We will not give up the
Palestinian cause even if we are attacked from Mars and other
planets and not from America. Thus, this is a cause, a vital cause,
Arab unity. A unity which we will not give up. In fact, this
American challenge prompts the Arabs to strengthen their unity.
The world has nothing to do with Arab unity. It is foreign to Arab
unity; this is an original issue. America should leave the Medi-
terranean and must not interfere in the internal affairs of the
Arab world. This represents clear aggression ... to leave the Gulf
of Mauritania ... America does not have the right to interfere in
this region. We will fight America if she enters into the Arab
world ... and besides our religion, our moral philosophy, our
'FRG TV: Abu Nidal Resigns; People Under Al-Qadhdhafi
J
DW171003 [Editorial Report] Mainz ZDF Television Network
in German at 1815 GMT on 16 April 1986 carries its regularly
scheduled "ZDF Magazin" program, the major part of which is
devoted to the U.S. action against Libya and Libyan terrorism
in general. Moderator Gerhard Loewenthal cites "exclusive
information received in the past few hours from reliable sources
in Libya and Egypt" disclosing that "notorious terror leader Abu
Nidal" has resigned from his post "because he reportedly has
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