A CONVERSATION WITH JIM ANGLETON

• Document Type: FOIA
• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 02107683
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: July 13, 2023
• Document Release Date: August 29, 2022
• Case Number: F-2020-01198
• Publication Date: April 26, 1951

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26 April 1951
MEMORANDUM FOR FILE
SUBJECT: A Conversation with Jim Angleton
At lunch today I discussed a number of subjects with Angleton.
1. Biographic Intelligence
I told Angleton that after talking with Timm and Harvey I had
not been able to identify the biographic problem in respect to counter-
espionage. I said I was aware that both Mr. Dulles and he felt this
should be gone into. I indicated that from Timm and Harvey I got the
impression that the thing that is needed mainly is more personnel.
He pointed out that there are a great many investigative
agencies in the Government which must be queried with respect to the
name check: 0/SO, FBI, State, I&S, ONI, Army, Air, Customs, Immigration,
Commerce, etc., ad infinitum. I pointed out that it was obvious his
ideal would be that there could be a single name check in which all the
necessary data would tumble forth. I wondered, however, whether he
couldn't be more precise in terms of how one approaches the question
realistically. Thus, I asked, what were the four most important agencies
(answer: FBI, 0/SO, State, ONI), and whether he considered it was at all
practical to expect, particularly the FBI, to permit a central card file
in 0/S0 (which is the place he said it should be located)? His response
was so weak as to hardly warrant an attack on the problem. At most it
seems to me one could begin on this by working on ONI and State.
2. Relations with FBI
I recalled that DeLoach had mentioned that relations with 0/S0
were fine, that Timm and Angleton had reported relations with FBI were
lousy. What, I asked, were the problems which he saw? From a discur-
sive monologue I concluded the following:
a. It is very irritating to 1D/S0 that all of its desk to
desk contacts with FBI have to flow through the centralized liaison
service in the form of DeLoach. This is characterized by DeLoach's
presence at any meeting between 0/S0 and FBI desk personnel.
b. He said that there are about 200 pieces of paper a week
flowing between 0/S0 and FBI, but he did not say that these were
not handled satisfactorily. I inquired whether there had been a
recommendation from 0/S0 to the Director for action vis-a-vis FBI.
It became clear that they had not been able to get correspondence
past Schow for the DCI to sign to the FBI, that actually it was
considered in the Agency that taking on Mr. Hoover was really too
big a problem.
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On this point we concluded that the only approach was in the
specific case and my own impressions that for the moment this one is too
obscure or tough for me to handle.
3. OP Apparatus
We agreed that he would inform me whether his original memor-
andum is the one which he wants me to push forward to the Director after
such consultations as I think are necessary with 0/CI and State on the
Communist Trends question. He showed an inclination, however, not to
bring it to the Director's attention, but to rather proceed to beef up
a research element in 0/S0 and do the job themselves. I called attention
to the thought that if this is done it should be done wittingly with the
knowledge of the Director since it is the assignment of a research
function to 0/SO, and I said that it had been constantly brought to my
attention by 0/S0 that it wished to do no research since it was not a
research organization. He said they would probably not prefer to do
this since under their charter they have freedom to do anything they
consider necessary.
4. I invited his advice with respect to my relations with the
people in 0/S0 on the basis of any comments coming to him, indicating
that I would consider such to be very helpful. He indicated favorable
reaction but a moment later pointed to the fact that I had been dealing
with Houck instead of Hunter. Here he was inconsistent in that he
deprecated Houck's ability to deal with these problems because he had
no operational experience, and at the same time touted Sam Hunter's
capability, even though Sam has had none either. He seemed to hang
this point on the fact that Sam actually had relations with the division
chiefs where Houck didn't. I indicated that I would take his advice and
establish my contacts with Sam.
In this connection I pointed to the difficulty of really getting
at the problem of evaluations, for example, because I had no appreciation
of what was in the mind of the administrators in each division with
respect to the field. Since he had been in the field I asked him whether
he could speak to the quettion of the value or adequacy of 0/S0 administra-
tive guidance. He indicated it was lousy. I pointed out that it would be
most wasteful to try to make the bureaucratic machine grind on trying to
get coordinated requirements prioritized when, as a matter of fact, there
was inadequate guidance.
At one point he indicated that one of 0/5O's difficulties had
been that it had no umbilical cord into the Agency. I got the impression
that in a minor degree he considered me as offering that possibility,
that also 0/S0 itself had not been too desirous in the past of having
a relationship.
JAMES Q. REBER
SECRET
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UNCLASSIFIED Approved for Release: 2022/08/15 CO2107683 EGRET--
(SENDER WILL CIRCLE CLASSmft.AATION TOP AND BOTTOM)
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
OFFICIAL ROUTING SLIP
TO
INITIALS
DATE
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Advisor for butnseement
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SIGNATURE
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APPROVAL I INFORMATION
JACT I ON 1 DIRECT REPLY
COMMENT PREPARATION OF REPLY
CONCURRENCE I RECOMMENDATION
REMARKS: 1 send you the attached
Conversation as a matter vhich
in your field for action. My
vbat might be more effective is
paragraph 4.
.11;),R
SECRET CONFIDENTIAL RESTRICTED
Memorandum
/ think
suggestion
set forth
UNCLASSIFIED
FORM NO.
SEP 1947 30.4
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