DISCUSSION WITH KENNETH HANSEN OF THE BUREAU OF THE BUDGET ON THE SITUATION IN SAIGON AT THE TIME OF HIS VISIT

• Document Type: FOIA
• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 05982811
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: July 11, 2023
• Document Release Date: September 9, 2022
• Case Number: F-2015-01188
• Publication Date: October 24, 1963

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24 October 1963
MEMORANDUM FOR THE DIRECTOR
SUBJECT: Discussion with :Kenneth Hansen of the Bureau a the Budget
on the Situation in Saigon at the Time of His Visit
1. In accordance with your instructions, I stopped in to see
Feline% Hansen at the Bureau of the Budget at 1400 today and said I
was quite concerned about some of his comments on the situation in
Saigon and wondered if he could expand on his previous comments. I
told him that we were most particularly worried about the Starnes
article that appeared in the Scripps Howard newspapers and the impres-
sion that had been treated that this was accurate.
2. Hansen said that the Starnes article had appeared in Washington
at the time be was in Saigon, and he had seen it there, and it was an
accurate reflection of whet was being said in Saigon at the time and what
Lodge had said to him on his first meeting. He repeated that the Starnes
article accurately reflected what people were saying and then added that
it was factually inaccurate and not in accordance with his findings during
his visit.
3. He went on to describe his initial meeting with Lodge at which
re present Colonel Dunn of Lodge's staff and the two BOB representa-
tives with Hansen. Lodge had at that time made the following charges
against the Agency:
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(1) That it was improperly dealing with Nhu who was the
opposition;
(2) That it had developed its operations in the north among
the hill tribes all out of proportion and was reluctant to turn
these over to the military;
(3) That it had failed to achieve sufficient penetration of
either the government or the Buddhists and consequently had
been surprised at both the government raids on the temples
and the Buddhists movement strength;
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(4) That John Richardson had a palatial mansion and
entertained government officials therein;
(5) That CIA constituted too large and too visible a
portion of the Embassy in the US mission in Vietnam;
(6) That CM acted on its own initiative without coordi-
nation and without any control from either the Ambassador
or Washington.
Hansen said at this meeting he had told Ambassador Lodge that he
intended to personally, thoroughly investigate all of the charges listed
by the Ambassador, and while he could not comment at the moment on
what was going on in Vietnam he could tell the Ambassador that in
Washington there was a complete and thorough approval mechanism,
and while he (Hansen) did not sit in or participate in the mechanism,
he was able to get information on those matters which were of interest
to the Bureau of the Budget and was convinced that the system was a
good and proper one. After the meeting adjourned Hansen said that
Colonel Dunn had taken bin aside and told him that perhaps the Ambas-
sador had placed too much stress on some of these items and that
Hansen should not be overly concerned about it. Hansen also mentioned
that he had told the Ambassador that even though he was a close and
long-time friend of John Richardson, he felt quite confidently that he
could objectively look into the situation.
4. Hansen went on to say that after what he considered to in a
complete and very detailed review of the situation he had had lunch
alone with Ambassador Lodge and told him he thought his charges
against the CIA were erroneous. He said that he was convinced every-
thing the CIA had done in Vietnam had been approved in Washington,
coordinated with and carried out under the directions of the Ambassador,
and bad been carried out with both good judgment and a high quality of
professionalism. He therefore felt that the allegations made in the
Starnes article were totally inaccurate even though they reflected what
people were saying.
5. I asked Hansen why he thought people in State and the military
had been attacking CIA and why it had become such a public debate. He
said he felt that it was more of the usual cocktail circuit backbiting!)
against the "spooks" which had been going on, and when the situation
had become critical this had been picked up by the press and carried on
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as part of their campaign to try and get rid of the Diem government.
He said that there was no doubt in his mind that the press had used the
Agency because of the certainty that it was going to get headlines if
CIA was involved.
6. I asked him Al he had been there at the time of the coup attempt
and whether there had been any reflection on our role in it. and he said
he had not gotten any playback on this. He then added that I should
recognize that at the time of Lodge's first meeting with him, Lodge had
not yet had a full briefing from John Richardson and his staff on what
the Agency was doing and that this had occurred a few days later.
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(signed) Lyman B. Kirkpatrick
Lyman B. Kirkpatrick
Executive Director
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